Moritz von Oswald

Torsten Schmidt

Welcome, Mr Moritz von Oswald [applause].

Moritz von Oswald

Thank you, Torsten. It’s a big pleasure to be here to answer a lot of questions and talk about my work, our work with Basic Channel, Rhythm & Sound, Wackies rereleases… whatever it concerns, I’ll try to tell you whatever I know. Thank you.

Torsten Schmidt

Apart from those things you just hinted at, we thought it would be a great opportunity to learn a little bit more about dub and the digital side of dub, what a dub is in the first place. To start off, Berlin is not exactly the center of dub culture, how did you get in touch with it?

Moritz von Oswald

I didn’t get completely into it in Berlin. I was listening to reggae for quite a long time when I was working in a record shop, ages ago. We’d get imports from Great Britain, and we’d check out records by Channel One, Lee Perry, of course, early-’80s recordings that were hard to get, that were only on import.

Every time a record came in, we would sit down and discuss about or listen to it, because they were so hard to get. It was always a nice experience to listen to whatever we had. At the beginning of the ’90s, I started checking them out again with Mark Ernestus, my partner in Basic Channel. He was diving into the hardcore, hard-to-find 7”s and 12”s even more than me, and we decided we particularly liked one guy from New York, originally from Jamaica, that was Lloyd Barnes, Wackies.

We realised he was one of our favorite producers and tried to link up with him and get into his world. We were going to New York anyway, seeking out old cellars and basements for records, and, at some point, we met him in the South Bronx. Another thing that came up, which I’ve put on the player; there was a guy from London, who also had a connection with him and he said it would be great if we could do a remix of this track he wanted to release called “Mango Walk,” produced by Wackies, which hadn’t been released before. We had the original tapes, we released it and we did a remix. Maybe we could give it a listen. So we’ll listen to the original.

(music: The Chosen Brothers – “Mango Walk (Dubwise Version)”)

So that was the original. You hear lots of nice stuff in there. A lot of space, there’s room for the vocals, especially for the bass, percussion, all the effects. But there’s not too much. I think it’s a really nice example of what was done at the time in New York. The New York sound is important, because it wasn’t the sound from Jamaica. He had a different attitude, and we really liked this kind of edge and his sharp sound, that was also very deep and edgy, with the big bass that’s not always even recognizable as a bass – it’s more like a pulse that you can hear on his productions. But I can also encourage you, if you have questions about this track, let me know.

Torsten Schmidt

Could you specify the time this was made?

Moritz von Oswald

Early ’80s, end of ’70s, during the two or three years when he had his studio in the South Bronx. Lots of people came in – many of them unknown artists. He’d feature a lot of people with just one record they wanted to try, and he would turn it into a really nice record. People would appear on one or two 7”s, maybe a 12”… that was it. He also worked with big names. He was constantly working with Sugar Minott, Leroy Sibbles from The Heptones. There was a basic production team, around which many people were shifting.

Torsten Schmidt

You mentioned the New York sound – do you think the availability of technology in New York was different from Jamaica?

Moritz von Oswald

I don’t know, I might have to ask him.

Audience member

Probably really obscure artists, and the guy pressed it up in his own studio. What kind of technology exactly would he have at his hands? Probably some classic dub things like the Space Echo I reckon or some strings. But what stuff would you work on to get the sound? I mean, roughly, not the exact set-up, but, say, the size of the mixer: was it a really big console, was it an eight-track or 16-track? Could you specify?

Moritz von Oswald

It’s something he never told me. It’s probably hard to remember what came out and what went in. They constantly changed. Maybe he had a very small mixer, but, you know, these things were made to be used. There was only a 24-hour goal in this studio – people had a session, then next session, the next track, next recording, then sleeping.

Audience member

But the track was done in a classic dub sense. There was a band recording for him, then he dubbed it out to stereo tape with live mixing. A lot of producers don’t do that, they touch the faders too much while mixing down. This was done in the classic dub way?

Moritz von Oswald

Of course. He is still doing this, and I can recommend using this style of mixing.

Audience member

I’ve done it. When I first got into production, I had this mixer and I was toying around with it.

Moritz von Oswald

I watched him and I could get a sense of how he was doing it, it’s very intuitive. You cannot recall it.

Audience member

So he uses no automation?

Moritz von Oswald

At that time it was impossible anyway, but I don’t think he’d be doing it now.

Torsten Schmidt

Probably this is a good chance to take us through the actual process of how you make a dub, what a version is. Some of the keywords were there already, but it’s good to explain it to everyone.

Moritz von Oswald

Usually, it works from a vocal track to an instrumental. The instrumental, sometimes it’s a chance to develop something new with the instrumental. That’s mainly how we worked, and we worked it out on the Rhythm & Sound, Basic Channel and the Maurizio records as well. I have some examples of that for later, but this is the main thing I want to say… version, dub, this kind of thing, I feel bad categorizing or trying to describe it too much. There are so many examples of how people do it. For example, here you hear a breakdown and everything comes back in again, and playing around with effects, but also leaving some space for the six or eight elements that are working together really well. It’s a matter of how the original track is put together – if it’s put together very well, you can bring out that small number of elements and play with them. If you have a doubt about the original elements, it might make it difficult.

Torsten Schmidt

A key element might be to listen rather than talk. I guess, you had times when you weren’t overwhelmed with stuff, you could just concentrate on a new piece of music rather than be flicking through 10,000 titles on one iPod. When you approach a track, what’s your listening approach? Your partner Mark, for example, refuses to take the needle off before the end, which is the polar opposite of that [gestures changing records very fast] record shop thing.

Moritz von Oswald

I like that as well. It’s nice to play something out. I like to get into the groove. It’s much better, more interesting. Also, you can find out more about the track that is well done, what it’s saying. I like long pieces, the repetitive patterns and seeing how people treat the few elements that are there, and how I am able to treat it in a mix and in a production. If you’re setting up a track, give it some time. Listen to it over and over; that’s the best thing to do. If you get tired of it, change it. If it’s keeping you smiling and alive, then continue. That’s what we’ve been doing for a long time.

Torsten Schmidt

So there’s another side to that particular record as well. What were you listening for when you retreated that one?

Moritz von Oswald

Maybe I can hand this over to the participants, see what they recognize of the original track when we listen to it.

(music: Rhythm & Sound – “Mango Drive” / applause)

Moritz von Oswald

Thank you. So this track was done completely live in the mix, I remember. It was a long time ago but you don’t forget these moments. A track like this isn’t a short process – more like weeks than days, deciding what to take, what works, what can be done new while keeping the affection for the old record… [It’s very important] to keep the feeling of the old track and somehow transport it into the new track. Not so many elements remain. The bass is modified and simplified into the new track, and the vibes of the guitar-sounding synth chords appear on the new track as well. But, of course, the rhythm and speed has changed.

Torsten Schmidt

When you say it’s a process that takes a couple of weeks, do you work constantly on it, or do you go back and forth? How can we picture it? Are there other people involved as well? Do you take sketches, make notes, or do you draw it out?

Moritz von Oswald

It’s mainly constantly running. Then, if there’s a little change to do, we try it out. Then, if there’s something bothering us after a while, it’s done. It doesn’t really have to be done quickly – it’s a matter of mind and music together. Even if I’m not in the studio or constantly working on the track, it’s always in the back of my mind.

Torsten Schmidt

So, how do we have to picture this: Is there a board where all the elements are laid out individually on the tracks? What’s connected to the board?

Moritz von Oswald

What do you mean?

Torsten Schmidt

Can you elaborate on the working process?

Moritz von Oswald

It works mainly from the computer nowadays, of course. There’s always the possibility to change everything around, so nothing is too fixed. Of course, we also change the equipment all the time… nothing is kept for too many years, except some special custom-made stuff I have. I try to get into new stuff and old stuff…

Torsten Schmidt

Are you interested in pre-board things, like sound-generating devices or are you more into effects?

Moritz von Oswald

Everything. When there’s a new piece, I want to try it out, not because it’s new, but just because it might sound promising, or because people are telling me about it, or for whatever reason I think it’s necessary to check it out. The productions I like to do are always connected to technical change as well, so it’s nice to combine it.

Torsten Schmidt

There are people on the studio team who’ve been joking since we came on these premises that with all these vast empty buildings, one or two of them could be used as echo chambers. Could you tell us what an echo chamber is? Most of us might know it as a plug-in, but I have a feeling you might know a bit about the development of echoes and delays.

Moritz von Oswald

I think I don’t know that much about it. Many people know more about it. But I remember one thing from going to the Motown Museum in Detroit. They told us that there wasn’t an echo chamber, but there was a natural hall room that the guys put up under the roof. The guys had the studio in the basement, and they put a cable up to the roof and amped and miked it. That was their hall, the one they used first on the early Motown recordings. Tape echoes and such, everybody knows, the old analog tape echoes which are still available as digital copies. I think it’s great to use them. You don’t get tired of the sound, and I’m always very up for analog stuff because it’s so rich. I also like digital level and the digital sources, but the analog is more direct still, more alive.

Audience member

You said this track was made in the ’80s?

Moritz von Oswald

The original was, but the remix was in the ’90s. I’d have to look but late ’90s.

Audience member

But you still had the original tapes.

Moritz von Oswald

We had the original tapes, but only the two-track, not the multi-tracks, if that even exists.

Audience member

How did you do the remix? With a sampler?

Moritz von Oswald

No, we didn’t sample anything.

Audience member

You made a new track?

Moritz von Oswald

I like remixes that are done as a new track, that still relate to the original, but making a new track out of it.

Audience member

For me, with a remix I think of getting the track and making it different on itself. So, I was wondering if you did it in the mid-’80s, how would you have done it?

Moritz von Oswald

The approach of doing a remix differs from person to person. You can rearrange the original track, or you can do a completely new work, which at first sight has nothing to do with the original. So there’s a very wide range. This track is somewhere between the two. It’s a completely new track, but we’re trying to relate to the vibe of the original. One new direction is the context in which it’s played, because this is also a disco track in a way.

Audience member

It’s totally different to get the two tracks separate.

Audience member

All I knew about you was one of the mixes you made of Tony Allen’s track called “Ole.” I listened to it, it had a lot of mild pads synths, a lot of soul. But then I listened to the original and it has a lot of funky bass, a reggae sort of feel. When you did the remix, did you take the separate tracks? Because your mix has the drumming, then you get your type of dub on top of it. Did you get the separate original tracks or did you take another percussionist and add the effects on top of it?

Moritz von Oswald

I can play the mix, I have it here, but not the original. In this case, the Tony Allen original was delivered in separate tracks, so I could use the voice on its own, which I did. I didn’t want to use the original drums somehow because they were so great on the original, I thought I’d try something different. I also mixed the original record, and I decided the remix was too close to it, I had to get away from it. I needed a new vibe. I just can play my mix of it.

(music: Tony Allen – “Ole (A Remix by Moritz von Oswald)” / applause)

Moritz von Oswald

Thank you very much.

Torsten Schmidt

This is a question that’s pretty crucial to everyone in this room who hopes to live from making music: how do you sound like you, and not one of the three million people who try to sound like you?

Moritz von Oswald

(Laughs) That’s not easy to answer.

Torsten Schmidt

What’s the meaning of life? Why are we here?

Moritz von Oswald

Exactly. My advice is to take time, be aware of what you’re doing, be spontaneous, but also to take a quiet moment in what you’re doing that you want to keep. Don’t rush when it’s not necessary, take what you’re doing seriously and don’t waste anything in a way. Of course, some days, you’re better than others. To get over that period when you’re not so good, you just have to have this kind of easygoing manner… I don’t know whether that’s really understandable, but I think it’s very important.

Torsten Schmidt

But time is the ultimate luxury. A lot of people feel rushed to release something earlier because they’ve got rents to pay and babies to feed. I guess, for you guys it was always important to have some kind of economic independence.

Moritz von Oswald

It’s not an easy approach, and you’re right, it’s easy to get into the fast groove and do things faster that would be done better if you took one extra day. For us, it was important to keep it all in our hands. Economically, it also worked out. You don’t sell your product to a big company, or look for that kind of thing; you just try to keep a low profile, and try to get things going on your own and not be dependent on other people. It’s always more time consuming being with someone who tells you what to do. Then you get into mental struggles, and that’s really time consuming.

Torsten Schmidt

Just to be clear, you’re not a lone fighter, you work with a group of other people.

Moritz von Oswald

It developed into that, but it wasn’t always the case. I started a small studio, then people came, we produced some stuff, a little bit of money came in, it built up slowly. Suddenly, you have a nice record, then you have another one. But from my point of view, this was a disciplined way of keeping it to yourself. I can also understand the other way, if someone gets a big advance and tries to live off it for a long time, but I think that’s not too healthy.

Torsten Schmidt

Is that still a reality? Aren’t big advances just a thing of the 20th century?

Moritz von Oswald

No, they still exist. I know it, but I just don’t like it.

Torsten Schmidt

You mean when you do classical recordings you get a decent advance?

Moritz von Oswald

Yes [laughs], for example.

Torsten Schmidt

We’ll get to that later; but at the same time, when you say it would be great to have that extra day, but you also need to come to a decision and let it go. Isn’t the beauty of what reggae and dub told us that a track is never ready, there’s always another version?

Moritz von Oswald

What I discovered doing this reggae stuff, and also the other tracks, is that you feel when it’s done. It can be done very quickly, but if you feel it takes another ten minutes, then just take it. I like to finish stuff quickly. If it’s done, it’s done; if there are mistakes, there are mistakes. But if the vibe is right, or the feeling is right, just go for it and ignore the little mistakes. There are so many possibilities for getting rid of them, but I like them. I really like the little noises when things go wrong, as long as it’s not terrible, of course.

Torsten Schmidt

Being imperfect, or … there are obviously parameters that can go from 30 minutes to however long. What’s the average amount of time you take on a track?

Moritz von Oswald

The production takes a long time, it’s not really quick. Some stuff goes for about a week, some takes longer. I think one good possibility to capture different versions of one track is to make versions and to make dubs, go into the instrumentals and develop a track from another track, so you get something going, maybe with vocals, whatever, and you develop it. You do mixes, you change the mixes and get into different levels of what you’ve done before. You change it over and another thing will come out of it. That’s a good thing to do. Don’t hang on something once you’ve done it, get another instrumentalist or even another vocalist into the studio and do another version of it. This is obvious and quite common but it’s nice.

Torsten Schmidt

Apart from the fact that you have to deal with that tiny little thing they call ego, obviously, you created something, so it must be the greatest thing you ever did, because you did it yourself. At the same time, you’ve got these mental struggles and doubts in your head, then you’ve got other people and you have the same things going on with them when they’re in the studio. How does working with Mark differ from working with someone like Tikiman?

Moritz von Oswald

It’s always really dependent on what the result is. Working with anybody, it’s always important that, at the end of the day, there’s something you can capture and take with you, even if it’s not recorded, as long as it’s a step forward. That is something you have in your hands, you can watch, you can just let go, you can experiment, just sit down and listen for hours. The main thing is you have a result. Even if it’s not recorded, just as long as you have a new development. If there’s no development, don’t cancel working with the guy if you have a good feeling, but look forward to the next session to continue and maybe finish working on the track.

Torsten Schmidt

So, no matter how small the step is, as long as there’s always a step forward. Nevertheless, you’re dealing with human beings and there are always these situations in the studio where you’re thinking, “He might be onto something here. Do I encourage him, do I sit back?” You’ve worked in bands with a lot of people from your early days in Palais Schaumburg to different settings, from orchestras to bedroom [productions]. How do you manage it… knowing when to interact with the other person?

Moritz von Oswald

I don’t. I always say, “No, this is wrong.” So, it’s better if nothing comes out. No, the best thing is for me to let go most of the time. Don’t interfere until the person is ready or you need to talk about it. This also concerns vocal sessions: If there are tracks running, then let the person sing on it [waves to Tikiman in the auditorium], try something out, give it time. Especially with this kind of music where you have the repetition and you can’t really build a song on top of it. You can, but you don’t need to, if there are fragments, a bit of vocal line. If you can hear there’s nothing really happening any more, stop it and listen to it with the singer. But try to record from the very first moment, because that’s where the best things are coming from most of the time.

Torsten Schmidt

Speaking of first moments, can we take a step back in time and listen to some Maurizio?

Moritz von Oswald

Yeah, I’ll play something that’s a remix, or a rework of a track that was done in a very underground way. A new-wave female couple recorded the original vocals on this and one of the women asked me to do something with the original vocals. We did it, and this is what came out of it.

(music: Maurizio – “Domina (Maurizio mix)”)

The other side is a mix by Carl Craig. I’ll play you a bit of it, as I remember it was one of the first mix that he did for us and we did one for him in return which I can play in a bit. This was all done a really long time ago, in 1993…

(music: Maurizio – “Domina (Carl Craig’s Mind Mix)”)

Moritz von Oswald

That was his mix. When this came out, we also offered him a record which he released on Planet E, and we set up a project for it called Quadrant. This is the track he released on Planet E.

(music: Quadrant – “Infinition” / applause)

Torsten Schmidt

You were saying how much you can hear of the time and the situations these records were made in. This gave me a bit of a flashback last week when we were having a bit of a party in the room next door and it sounded like some warehouse party from almost 20 years ago, with the harsh concrete and the reflections, which sound a lot harsher than you might imagine.

Moritz von Oswald

Well, for me of course it is a good memory, but I also get the impression nowadays with reggae, but also with dubstep parties, that this is the right room or environment to be playing these records. I think it’s nice to listen to it on the headphones or iPod or whatever, but to hear it played out in the right kind of room, it’s a completely different story, a different attraction. I encourage everybody to try it out.

Torsten Schmidt

At the same time, two-thirds of the time, your tracks aren’t played in the ideal conditions.

Moritz von Oswald

I think that is the ideal condition, to have it not necessarily on the best sound system, it just has to carry the sound. The room is very important, the people are enjoying it, and it has the feel of this particular time. I think it’s not easy to set up a good club, because everyone tries to come up with the best sound system or the best bar. Everything is very upfront and comfortable or whatever, but that’s not so important. I’d rather just see a room with a great or reasonable sound system in it, and have a good party. That’s almost all it takes.

Torsten Schmidt

Which places do you most like playing and hear your music?

Moritz von Oswald

More or less just as I just described.

Torsten Schmidt

Which sound systems do you find the best?

Moritz von Oswald

We talked about that yesterday, it’s the combination of room and sound system that is very important. The room has to be prepared a little bit, not too much. I’ve seen Funktion One soundsystems that sounded great, and they are nice definitely, and others that sounded shit. It depends on the care and understanding and listening you put into it. It always depends on the people who are doing it. I’ve seen so many small clubs that are just right because the people are into it and they don’t give up. If something is wrong, they change it. Same with turntables, these are good turntables, but you can try something different.

Audience member

When you’re in the studio environment, do you consider that you’re making music for the dancefloor? Obviously, the Maurizio and Basic Channel sound has been really influential for a lot of dancefloors and clubs in the last few years, but you’re basically making dub, not techno. It’s your own kind of dub and dub isn’t necessarily dance music.

Audience member

Yes, it is.

Audience member

Dub is slow and there aren’t many dub clubs around the world, not if you compare it to the amount of techno clubs. Techno is very functional dance music, at least for me, though I can dance to dub. Do you make music for clubs, or do you consider it when you’re making music?

Moritz von Oswald

Well, let’s try to look at it differently. If you want to categorize it, I’m OK with that. For me, the Maurizio and Basic Channel records had a lot to do with a later development, because we were using stuff at that time that we were also using later. Especially, the way we were using effects and integrating them into the music. We used patterns that weren’t really defined, but they work with each other and are constantly changing. It’s a state where the music is not moving, just kept like a Polaroid, in a way, where you have something going on rhythmically, but it actually stands still at the same time. For me, in dub it’s not really that different, so I don’t really break it up into other kinds of music… Of course, it’s different, the straight bass and drum, and you can see it as you just did. But I don’t see it that drastically. The dub records we did had more space, and they weren’t played in the clubs as much as the stuff we did first. But, now, I think it’s not such a big change. You can play them together and people do. I can play you some of that changeover, when we decided to have more space in the records. I was a bit tired of the density of the records we’d done – I didn’t think about playing out in a club, or not.

Audience member

Before I heard your real name, I always thought you were from Detroit. Would you agree the Basic Channel tracks have a Detroit sound and feel about them?

Moritz von Oswald

I don’t think so.

Audience member

So, there’s no connection with Detroit?

Moritz von Oswald

Of course, there are many connections. We had been there, we’d made friends there, exchanged mixes… I liked a lot of the stuff that came from Detroit. Collaboration wasn’t a problem. People came to Berlin to record something at my place, we went to Detroit to cut the records. All the Basic Channel and Maurizio records were cut in Detroit and manufactured in the States, and only available on import. You can consider it as being from Detroit, but the sound doesn’t go together with the Detroit sound… I don’t know… I don’t think so.

Torsten Schmidt

Obviously, you went to great lengths to go to the same places to cut the records, because they had a certain thickness in the sound, much like the records you were selling in the shop that you liked. This contributed to your myth and myth created interest, and at the same time you were holding back. You weren’t on the cover of any magazines at that time. What were the most ridiculous things you ever heard about yourself, like, who you really are? Did you ever buy a house in Detroit?

Moritz von Oswald

We did, or Mark did. The most ridiculous things… I forget. I saw some stupid pictures… It was fun for us to see what is happening when you’re not doing anything. We just refused to do interviews because we didn’t like to, we didn’t want to, and what came out of it was a myth, a rumor, so many stories – we laughed about it.

Torsten Schmidt

So are you saying you weren’t reading Foucault’s writing before making a record? There wasn’t a single article about you guys in the last 20 years that didn’t mention Foucault or Derrida, sometimes even going back into antiquity to Ovid and whatnot, just throwing a lot of stuff onto it. How do you keep the music strong enough to hold out against it?

Moritz von Oswald

It’s just not interesting for me, what is written about us. I didn’t follow it, I didn’t want to get into it, that’s really the main reason.

Torsten Schmidt

That’s an interesting point now that people seem unable to exist without three-and-a-half million Facebook friends. Do you think the same tactics would work now?

Moritz von Oswald

I’m a bit unhappy about the word “tactic,” because it wasn’t really done on purpose. What came out of it, for us it was funny, it was out of our hands. We didn’t want to know about it, and we didn’t like it when people got fame out of it, when they were hanging onto the same circle. That happened sometimes.

Torsten Schmidt

So, were they expatriated, executed after that? Did they have to go off and produce software?

Moritz von Oswald

[Laughs] No, not really. But we kicked ass. What happened was, because of a bad experience I’d had before, working with Mark on that level of intensity in the studio, what came out of it with certain people was out of our hands. We didn’t get into it until we worked with other artists directly, mainly vocalists, and we felt a responsibility to work for the product. We had to take some responsibility for their work as well, that’s when we decided to answer some questions, but only on a certain level. I think that’s fair enough. Sorry, but it can be a pain in the ass, journalists and questions and all that sort of thing [laughs].

Torsten Schmidt

There’s nothing worse than a room full of journalists. Every journalist in here might know it when you get to those promo days, and they’re all in there. Let’s not even go there. I guess, there are people in here, too, that want to produce their music, but they can’t. And yes, in the end we do live in a capitalist marketplace and you have to sell some sort of product, and you as a human being might be part of that product whether you like it or not. But I can name from the top of my head at least one hundred people in the German press I wouldn’t like to talk to if I was in that position. It’s horrible… like, “Hey, let me just do my music.”

Moritz von Oswald

This is a self-determined way at that time. I had an experience just recently for a release I did with Carl Craig where we actually had two days of promotional work. Still, you can put a question down and just say, “Skip that, next one.” I hope it doesn’t seem unfriendly, because that’s not what I want. I don’t want to be against the whole set-up of promo [activities], it works in a way, but for the kind of things we were doing at that time, they can live without it going public.

Torsten Schmidt

So is that Deutsche Grammophon saying, “OK guys, we did all this and it might look a lot bigger than it is, but we can’t work it in the way you’re used to, you have to just deal with highbrow, cultural people”?

Moritz von Oswald

The people who came to this promo activity, they were more or less the same people who interviewed me for Rhythm & Sound before, so it wasn’t such a big change. They are interested in what we’re doing. They are really music friends. They want to know what’s going on, how it came together, a bit like here, how the production was going, what the studio set-up was like and so on. It was fine helping them with that. That’s OK.

Torsten Schmidt

Now, from mastering a record in a den in a Detroit basement, to using Karajan’s tapes – and you’re performing that this week in Paris? – you couldn’t be much further away from what you were doing. How do you change your mindset to perform it?

Moritz von Oswald

I don’t have to change it at all. For me, it’s something connected to the depth of the stuff you’re doing. If you’re going to cut it or treat it or record it, whatever it is, it’s great that it happens and there’s something valuable coming out of it. The sessions for this album with Carl were done in Detroit and in Berlin under various circumstances, and we tried to forget where it comes from, from the studio recordings of a high-profile conductor, whatever it was, we try to create something out of it that we can live with and combine it to what we have done. So it’s not such a big change for me. Maybe looking at it from the outside it seems like a big turnaround, but I can say that’s it’s not for me personally.

Torsten Schmidt

I guess it’s a special Western thing or European thing, that orchestras are associated with high culture – a sign that you’ve officially grown up. A large part of the curriculum of what is played is people who have been dead for at least 100 years, so you’re entering a totally different context from being played in a club featuring music made by a 16-year-old on a PlayStation. People tend to forget that Beethoven or Mahler were slightly radical in their ways too. How do you work in that environment without being dragged down by it and almost killing your past work, as in, “OK, I’m grown up, finished, book closed… I’m a real artist now…”

Moritz von Oswald

I don’t see it that way. It’s mainly my love for the stuff I’ve experienced, the studio work and music in general. It’s very important that you’re aware of the process of how you get to it and where you stand when you work with it. The thing I really like about classical music is when it’s played live. So, to have this big sound I connect to the variety of dynamics, the frequencies and the great moments when everything’s lifting up, and the place is shaking, like in a club. For me, it can be the same intensity, and that’s what I’m looking for. I can recommend going to classical concerts [laughs].

Torsten Schmidt

It helps also that those rooms are built for sound.

Moritz von Oswald

Of course, I don’t see classical music as something related only to the older generation. It can be played in different environments, in clubs, as we did last week. The big club in Berlin, Berghain, is going to establish another room to perform operas and ballets. That’s a very nice idea. Of course, you have to like it… but I do.

Torsten Schmidt

But even if you don’t like it, if you go to see a Mahler symphony and there are eight upright basses, that’s a lot of bass right there; just the pure physical sensation can get you.

Moritz von Oswald

I agree.

Torsten Schmidt

As some of the participants in here you do have a classical background as well. But this could be the lead-in for what you say is your favorite record. When you deal with delays and echoes and stuff, certain sonic sensations occur that aren’t necessarily played in that classical understanding of using keys and so on. Nevertheless, you use frequencies and harmonies and you have to manage and arrange those sounds at the end. Can we take that as an example of how you do that?

Moritz von Oswald

Yes. Let’s listen first, then I’ll explain. This record is quite old, but I remember how and when it was done and it was a special moment, because it’s not possible to recall it at all.

[music: Basic Channel – unknown / applause]

Thanks. There was someone who had a question.

Audience member

This is connected to this thing about being mysterious, so maybe it’s just one of those pesky journalist’s questions. There was a white label floating around a while ago called Wax 1001 or something, and it was rumored to be a Basic Channel production, because it sounded a lot like you, a bit cleaner perhaps. Was it you?

Moritz von Oswald

No.

Audience member

Do you know who made it?

Moritz von Oswald

I have no idea, honestly.

Audience member

Seriously? But you’ve heard it?

Moritz von Oswald

I didn’t hear it.

Audience member

It’s a great 12” and it does sound a lot like the Basic Channel stuff. A lot of stuff sounds like that, but a bit cleaner somehow, more modern, if you will. [Laughter] But you’re not aware of the rumors that it’s a Basic Channel record?

Torsten Schmidt

Is that like being in the Rolling Stones – everywhere you go there’s a cover band doing “Jumping Jack Flash”?

Moritz von Oswald

It’s something that wasn’t possible to follow. It sounds a bit big-headed, but through Dubplates and Mastering we’d heard so many copies or related tracks. Sometimes, it was necessary to follow it because it was a rip-off or a sample that they used, which is something we really didn’t appreciate. But [those records] where people were trying to copy the sound or do something similar, we gave up listening to everything. The engineers would come up almost every day.

Torsten Schmidt

“We’ve found another one.”

Moritz von Oswald

Exactly.

Audience member

Your music is quite hypnotic and you almost get lost in the beats and the layers, you talk about the music like it’s almost standing still, like a picture. I find it really hard to get records like “Domina” and “Quadrant” these days. And you said yourself, you got quite tired of the density. Do you think it’s a dying art, this kind of hypnotic techno music, that people aren’t producing them anymore?

Moritz von Oswald

I don’t think so. If you find the right way to do it, then do it. If you find the right angle, where the elements are working together, then go for it. I’d rather do this than come up with elements… I like the horizontal view more than the vertical, where events are happening and you’re looking forward to events. I prefer the other one. Maybe you do too.

Audience member

Can you recommend anyone else doing this kind of “still picture music,” without ripping you off? Is there anyone apart from you guys, people taking it further perhaps?

Moritz von Oswald

I must say not so much. I don’t have the chance to follow club music that much at the moment, because I’m into different stuff, but I think there are some. Especially with this development of people getting back to reggae, slower rhythms. I would say dubstep has some possibility, it has a very nice feel. A bit different, but very, very nice.

Torsten Schmidt

This is your chance to [talk to] the copycats. What do you recommend as a self-check before putting out a record that maybe sounds a lot like the record you really love? You went through the same stage, taking the digital reggae you loved and putting your own twist to it. When do you know that it’s far enough from the original to not just be a knock-off?

Moritz von Oswald

Being honest to yourself, that’s really important. I really like reggae from the early days, ’80s, ’90s, also stuff nowadays, but that doesn’t mean I want to get close to the sound. I can play some stuff I really like, but it has nothing to do with what I’m producing. When you like something you don’t really have to copy it, do you?

Torsten Schmidt

That’s one of the greatest things about that music, where you don’t have a classical guitar and wear your influences on your sleeve, but you could rather rework them.

Moritz von Oswald

What we did was to try to work with vocalists and vocals that were already present. This record here (rummages in bag) is called [“King in My Empire.” Cornell Campbell is a veteran, but his voice is so unique that it’s great to work with – this is something we had to keep in mind when we were dealing with Lloyd Barnes and Wackies – he’s a great singer, a great artist, a great person. It’s a level of communication and collaboration that’s very unique. Working with great singers is something wonderful.

(music: Rhythm & Sound feat Cornell Campbell – “King in My Empire” / applause)

Torsten Schmidt

We’re running on a really hectic schedule today, but it would be a shame to let you go without you telling us just a little bit about how – especially in tracks like these where with the effects and delays – it’s so easy to over-cloud the track. How do you open up the wide spaces and keep them in the box at the same time?

Moritz von Oswald

Live mixing. Before that, we talked about really checking what is and isn’t necessary. Keep in mind that someone’s listening and you’re not the only one, so listen through other people’s ears in a way… imagine them diving into the track and getting deep into it. There’s no recipe to it, but for me it keeps on hitting that level of energy. Also, that subtle energy that’s very hard to get when you have a distance at the same time as having the right access to it. That’s as much as I can describe it. Be aware and also be somehow not aware of what can happen in the mix. It’s a very hard thing to describe.

Torsten Schmidt

It sounds a bit like life, you have to be aware and not aware of things all the time and oscillate between both. On a less subtle note, we won’t let you go without hearing another closing favorite of yours. But please after that, because we need to start again right on time at quarter past four again, so keep that in mind before you all rush off, because we all want to see the show tonight, I guess. Since it’s outside, we have to start on time, so bear that in mind and please be back by a quarter past four. But what is this record we’re going to hear?

Moritz von Oswald

It’s a deep and dark track from King Tubby… a production on his famous label Firehouse. It’s a nice track, maybe you don’t know it.

(music: Anthony Red Rose – “Mix Up Blender” / applause)

Torsten Schmidt

This has probably given you some insight into why Mr Von Oswald is one of the architects who has changed the way we listen to music in the past few years. This is our chance to thank him for sharing with us…

[Applause]