Alex Barck

Benji B

OK, our special guest this afternoon has come all the way from Berlin, Germany especially, please make him feel very welcome indeed, Mr Alex Barck. How are you feeling?

Alex Barck

Nervous.

Benji B

Yeah? Yeah, me too a bit, actually. Thank you very much for joining us. Could you introduce yourself, maybe in a sentence, just for people that aren’t familiar with your work and the labels that you are affiliated to?

Alex Barck

OK. My name is Alexander Barck, I was born in Germany, Eastern Germany, and what I do now is actually Jazzanova and Sonar Kollektiv), the label, and, yeah, that’s it. I mean, I can talk much more about it, how it all was and how it became the band and stuff…

Benji B

I think one of the things that most people who are familiar with Jazzanova and some of the people who aren’t find most confusing is, who is Jazzanova? Who makes up the group? And that’s something we can touch on later on in the session. But, just to fill us in the picture, Jazzanova is not just you, right?

Alex Barck

No, we are six people. Three people are, more or less, studio engineers – they run two studios in Berlin and one complex – and there are three others, which started as a DJ team together back in the day, around ‘95 I’d say.

Benji B

And one of them is you?

Alex Barck

One of them is me. And we joined forces when the club we were playing in – a very small club in Berlin, wanted to have tunes of us, of all DJs who were playing in the club – and we said, “Yeah, that’s nice but we can’t do it.” But we were introduced to some hip-hop producers back then and they showed us how to make a song, actually. We came up with very crazy ideas and they said, “No way,” because it wasn’t possible to just take the beat out of something. Obviously, there are rules if you make music and you all probably know, it’s not that easy sometimes. But they produced hip-hop records back then, German hip-hop acts… it’s not necessary to mention the names because they are not known, really.

Benji B

Some of us might know the names.

Alex Barck

They had a band called A Real Dope Thing. They were rapping in English, which was really bad. And sorry for my English, it’s not the best either. But yeah, they had a hip-hop background and we came from a record collectors’ background. And, for them, it was quite interesting because they were always looking for samples and we had quite unusual records for them to play, because they were a bit limited back in the day, when all the early breaks and beats records came out so everybody more or less sampled the same breaks. Then we came up with Brazilian records or Latin American records and, for them, it opened on the sample side something. And for us, of course, because we couldn’t play any instruments and even the studio was very new for us…

Benji B

So considering that Jazzanova represents production and DJ sides, are there natural roles within the clan that people do, and if so, what’s yours?

Alex Barck

That’s difficult. I’m more or less the man in the middle. I’m not a very good office worker, myself, and I like to be in the studio and I try to get the studio guys going and come up with the ideas… We have the same background and speak the same language because the studio guys are from the East as well and we always hang together a bit tighter. The other DJs, Jürgen [von Knoblauch] and Claas [Brieler], they run the label more or less and they have much more to do, actually, the work I don’t like, really.

Benji B

Well, seeing as we’re not interviewing the Jazzanova collective and we are interviewing you, I think it would be interesting about… first and foremost to hear your background, musically, before we get into the detail of all of that. Where you’re from originally, because as far as I’m aware, that’s got a pretty important influence in your musical background, right?

Alex Barck

I was growing up in the East, Eastern Berlin, and it was quite hard actually to play records, it wasn’t really possible to buy records.

Benji B

So, just in case there is anyone who isn’t aware of Berlin pre-1990, could you just fill us in what the difference between East and West Berlin at that time is?

Alex Barck

Of course, Berlin was divided in two big parts. The eastern side was ruled by the Russians and was obviously more communistic. The western side was Americanized, I would say… it was just a wall in the middle of the city.

Benji B

So it was capitalist west, communist east, right?

Alex Barck

It was actually an interesting place, still is. If you go to Berlin you still have that feeling that there’s a difference between parts of the city. Now everything’s concentrating in the East because it’s new, it’s fresh, all the subcultural things are taking place there. I live in the west now, it’s more quiet there.

I mean, you couldn’t buy records [in East Berlin then]. There wasn’t the possibility to listen to radio, there’s one guy from Dresden [here]. He probably had problems to listen to the radio back then, but in Berlin it was possible. You had all the British army camps, you had the Americans having their army stations.

Benji B

So you mean, radio that essentially was designed for West Berlin could be picked up in East Berlin?

Alex Barck

Yes, I think that was the plan anyway to get the music to the people or information or whatever. And back then I was listening to a lot of Western radio,Westwood, the hip-hop DJ who is on Radio 1 now, he had a show on a British station back then. It was information-wise, very, very good, and it wasn’t format radio at all. It was made by people and you had the feeling that certain people have special taste and they play it on the radio. There was another girl, her name was Monika Dietl, she was playing a mixture of hip-hop, disco and weird electro stuff, and I have tons of tapes from back then. I recorded everything, even the bullshit radio, even rock, pop. For me, music was essential, it was my hobby.

Benji B

And this is teenage years for you?

Alex Barck

Yeah, 12-years old maybe. I started to record on a very bad mono tape recorder from my father and I have tons of music, good and bad. When the wall came down it was like a release for me, actually. When the wall came down, I went to a record store.

Benji B

Am I right in thinking basically that whole period, you can hear the music from the radio but you can’t buy it, right?

Alex Barck

Yes, that was the problem. And sometimes you had the 30th [cassette copy] of an LP because somebody’s auntie was in the West and could bring a Morrissey record and you recorded it and stuff like that. Or the older people, they were allowed to travel, and, for instance, the grandmother of my partner, the producer Stefan [Leisering], the hip-hop guy, she had to go to hip-hop stores and bring Public Enemy records and bring them back to Berlin, which wasn’t that easy.

Benji B

Is that like basically smuggling? You had to smuggle the records in?

Alex Barck

Yes, an 80-year old lady.

Benji B

An 80-year old Public Enemy smuggler…

Alex Barck

When the wall came down I went nuts. I have been to the first, like, normal record store, and they had all the records I’d ever dreamt of. Then I started to buy music, all the stuff I’d always wanted to have.

Benji B

So in a way, not being able to have records has made you the record-collecting nutter that you’ve become now?

Alex Barck

Funny enough, in the east there were some records, which we later reissued on our label, which were quite interesting. You had the Polish jazz scene, which was quite strong. You had the Novi Singers, a very famous vocal group, or even Cuban jazz. I found some Cuban jazz records in my parents collection and… I think, actually, if I’d have known before that all these records are so rare now, I would be a rich man.

Benji B

Do you have a particular record, song, tune from that early period in your life that sums it up?

Alex Barck

I have one – I just downloaded it, sorry. I was into guitar music back then, and this is a song by Morrissey, which is quite important for us or for me. It brought me really into folky, rock-orientated things. I’ll play it for you.

(music: Morrissey – “Dial a Cliche”)

Alex Barck

So it was obviously not DJ, or let’s say teenager music, not DJ music and if you were in love with a girl, perfect…

Benji B

That’s as much of an influence on you, that kind of music, as is the jazz and contemporary music?

Alex Barck

I started like that. I think I have a very normal music taste, I’m not a specialist in anything, really. I think everybody is a bit like that. You get the record collection of your parents, you find an Elvis record, you listen to it, maybe you like the song even. Then you do your teenager thing and you buy records that your parents don’t like, and then you end up loving the same records again like your parents. I think you can have so many different musical backgrounds, and this is just one thing for me and it was quite important. It was a time when you were 16 or 17 and you try to find yourself and this is what music is also for, I think.

Benji B

And so post-1990 when everything changed for you – I mean, apart from the fact you were obviously influenced by radio DJs – did you start to become influenced by the club DJs? Were you going out at that time?

Alex Barck

Yes, I did the whole program. When the wall came down techno was big in Berlin. Some people think it was invented there, whatever. I did the whole program. I was young. For me it was totally new. Back in the day, this kind of music was played by one kind of mobile DJ, who is on the road with his system and he was from the east as well, and is now one of the most famous trance DJs, Paul van Dyk. I knew him from back then and he was playing Morrissey and The Smiths. He moved to the west before the wall came down and I met him after the wall came down again. I said, “You have a new thing going, what is it?” He said, “Techno, you know, it’s machines and it’s very steady,” and I was like, “No, that must be horrible!” Because I was more an acoustic guy. Then I saw him playing the stuff and I was really impressed by the sounds and the energy.

Benji B

So what were the first techno records that you really got into?

Alex Barck

You know what? I was just enjoying it, going to parties, I didn’t buy it back then. Right now, when people play me some, whatever, DJ Pierre, or the housey side of techno, then I say, “Yeah, I know that tune from back then, that was one of my favorites.” But right now for me house and techno is like the new rare groove. I try to get all the old interesting house records again, because it’s interesting, but you have to make that move first.

Benji B

So from Morrissey to the sound that people associate with Jazzanova whatever that might be is quite a way. In the middle, what was it that made you decide what your musical vision was and did meeting the other members of your collective have an influence in that?

Alex Barck

I had a very good friend in Berlin and he was a member of the very first German hip-hop group. They had self-made turntables, which were like really funny to look at, and they couldn’t scratch, really. It wasn’t really good. This guy was already deeply into sample digging and he played me some amazing hip-hop tunes and then the originals. It was a kind of sport we had then. I was so into it, we really wanted to find out – for instance, the Beastie Boys’ Paul’s Boutique, we wanted to find every sample on that record, which he did, actually.

That was a big fascination, going from there. Hip-hop was just one thing. I knew hip-hop before, but when I found out how they did it, it became even more interesting for me. If you’re young and you listen to hip-hop, it’s about the lyrics. But if you can’t understand the lyrics really, like me – back then my English was non-existent – then it’s something really interesting because if you listen to, for instance, A Tribe Called Quest and somebody shows you all the samples of that record then you wonder, “Wow, how did they do it – is it illegal?” I think there’s a certain kind of fascination, magic, going from that thing.

Benji B

So a lot of jazz and breaks records basically you were discovering in a way through hip-hop?

Alex Barck

I discovered the whole world of black-rooted music via hip-hop. The first song that really got me into it is this one, I’ll play it for you.

(music: Bob James – “Nautilus”)

Benji B

That’s Bob James “Nautilus,” right?

Alex Barck

Yes, it is. And for me, it was not just a sampled record, it was a magical tune somehow. When I heard it first it was like, I thought, “Yeah, that’s it, I don’t need another record any more.” And then, of course, I needed some others. But for me, it was a tune, which was sampled first. But then I could listen to it over and over again because it’s so deep, it’s floating, that really made me think about making music, really, because that’s the music I wanted to do back then and some others did cover versions of it, like Masters At Work and thousands of hip-hop guys sampled it. It’s like Bob James is probably rich now because of that.

Benji B

It’s interesting that you should mention that your sample-finding obsession because on the Jazzanova album there’s a track called “L.O.V.E. And You And I,” is that the track I’m thinking of? Which is like a tribute to all the classic breaks. Is that what it’s intended to be, is it almost like a homage to all the classic breaks you found?

Alex Barck

Yes definitely, and there’s another one on the first record called “Another New Day,” which had a breakdown in the middle and we really thought, “We want to do a song which could fit on an Ultimate Breaks and Beats record and some hip-hop DJs could cut it and rap on top.” That was a crazy idea.

Benji B

The one which started with all the breaks?

Alex Barck

That’s “L.O.V.E. And You And I.”

Benji B

Can we hear a bit of that?

Alex Barck

We can.

(music: Jazzanova – “L.O.V.E. and You and I” / applause)

Alex Barck

Thank you. The funny thing is a lot of people think it’s all cut, really. But it’s actually just a drum track and all the other samples are fitted in there, so it was quite a [lot of] work to do but it always takes time and that was a long-term thing.

Benji B

It definitely sounds pretty precise. When did that record come out?

Alex Barck

It’s quite old now, it’s 2002.

Benji B

So how many artist albums has Jazzanova done?

Alex Barck

One.

Benji B

And is there plans for another one?

Alex Barck

Yeah, we are nearly there and it’s a bit different. We try to get more of a live feel into it. The first album was sample-based only, and there was just one live vibraphone player and some singers and the rest was really sample-based, so we got into trouble quite often. Obviously, the original writers of the music had problems when we used little samples. But for the next album there will be not this problem because we played everything live and we tried to put it on the stage with a band.

Benji B

So let’s talk about Jazzanova now. Who are the other members of Jazzanova and what is Jazzanova?

Alex Barck

It’s difficult to say, really. I mean, we were lucky, I have to say. A big part of our group is the chemistry between the six people. I think it’s very respectful in a way and we all have one love, which is music. It’s hard to describe, really. Some journalists always ask me, “What’s the sound of Jazzanova, what is it, really?” I can’t really say…

For me, it was always time to move on and discover new things. It’s probably about that, that you always have to [redefine] yourself without losing contact with your fan base. Which is probably easier for us because we have a signature sound, I think. When our main musical man, Stefan, is doing tracks, how he’s treating samples, how he writes songs, it’s very unique, I would say. I think that’s one core of Jazzanova, that you always hear it could be a Jazzanova song. So producers probably know when they listen to the first few notes if it’s one of ours. I don’t know, we are always looking from a DJ, as well as a label perspective, or as the group Jazzanova, we’re looking for certain moments in music. It’s not about just having uplifting moments or sad moments, it’s just about a certain kind of energy, which touches the people and we try to reach that level with the music. That’s why it takes so long, because it’s not easy.

Benji B

And it can’t be easy with that many people involved. I mean, in the next two weeks, we’re going to have quite a few rooms with at least six people making a tune together. What’s your process of making a tune together? Is it difficult? I mean, that many chefs surely makes things longer, or does it make things quicker?

Alex Barck

Actually, we found this way that only one of the DJs and of the producers work together for one tune. The others, of course, can say what they think, give input, but when it comes to the making of a song, we do it in little teams. Two people, that’s it. And that’s easy then again. But you’ve got all the others and they will tell you if you’re on the wrong track.

Benji B

And in terms of the collective thing, I mean, when you go out and see Jazzanova on a flyer, it might be you, it might be Jürgen, it might be Claas, how do you deal with that in terms of your DJ schedules? Does that make your life easier, the fact that you actually could be in three different places at once or are people confused by that?

Alex Barck

It’s very confusing for the people. It’s maybe one of our biggest problems, that people always expect a live band. In every interview we try to explain what we do, who we are, and then suddenly you come into town and you have a big flyer with six people on it, and you more or less see guitars and drums in your head and only one DJ is coming.

That’s a bit of a problem and we carry that problem for years now, but for the next album it will be different. I mean, the whole idea of Jazzanova is based in the DJ culture and we try to move on and explaining is a thing you sometimes have to do about your music. But it helps as well because in the beginning nobody knew about Jazzanova.

Everybody said, “It’s a band.” “No, they’re from Japan.” And stuff like that and it helped a lot to create a certain kind of mystery around us and I think it helped us as well because people didn’t really know what it was all about.

Benji B

As the musical landscape around you changed a lot in the last ten years, are all your musical tastes still exactly the same? Has there ever been a time when you heard one of your friends and colleagues DJing and you thought, ‘I don’t know whether that fits the Jazzanova imprint?’ How important is it that you all stay within a certain understanding where the boundaries of what you are about are?

Alex Barck

I think we’re like an old couple. Right now, there’s only two DJs, Jürgen and me. I mean, even when he plays something different, I feel it. He is one of my favorite DJs, so I like to listen to him. And I hope the other way around is the same. I mean, we are in close contact, we play each other songs. That’s how we knew each other back then, he used to play me Brazilian music and jazz and I played him house music and more modern, club-orientated music and it melted together somehow.

The fact that we don’t play so often together, as a result, obviously, I play differently. But I think that’s good, it continues the mystic vibe of us. So, people really know what to expect. And I prefer that, actually – if the people come to a place and they don’t whether it will be hip-hop, soul music, just old stuff or new stuff, or mixed… I think, from a DJ perspective, it helped us a lot to be flexible, to be able to play the people everything. For many people it’s sometimes a surprise, but I like that. I like surprises. I’d rather be a [less perfect] DJ than, “Yeah, it was a perfect mix.” It can be boring. I’d rather be somebody who stands for everything and nothing and makes the people interested in things.

Benji B

And in terms of the numbers and how it all works out in the last ten years, as each month passes making a living out of releasing music has become more and more of an uphill challenge. When there’s so many people involved, how does it work financially to survive of their music full-time or do you not do it full-time?

Alex Barck

It’s actually quite a communistic idea as well, all the music which is owned under the name Jazzanova, as DJ fees or the publishing or record sales, we share it with six people. Everybody gets the same money. The studio guys also get money from the DJ side.

Benji B

Also when you do a DJ gig as well?

Alex Barck

Every gig is divided through six people. That helped us a lot to stay together, because we’re around for nearly 12 years, and we can all live from that. We will not be rich people, really, or maybe hopefully we will, but until now it’s like we can make a living and that’s okay. Because we put everything together in one pot. On the label side there is sometimes money to earn and we have production, publishing, radio show and all that together makes the money we share.

Benji B

Before we talk about the other collective, the Sonar Kollektiv, I would quite like to hear another tune. [To audience] You guys want to hear another tune? I definitely would like to hear another Jazzanova tune, maybe something you feel best sums up what we’ve been talking about.

Alex Barck

I can play something from the new album, which is a world premiere. This is to get a picture how it’s going to be.

(music: Jazzanova – “Let Me Show Ya” / applause)

We still have to mix it, it still sounds a bit… on the new album there will be a lot of more classic material.

Benji B

Who’s singing on that one?

Alex Barck

It’s Paul Randolph.

Benji B

And it’s all live, right?

Alex Barck

It’s all live. I mean, the beats are programmed like always but the rest is all live.

Benji B

Let me ask you this, in a lot of mainstream media “jazz” is definitely almost a dirty word – it’ll turn a lot of people off, it’s quite brave of you to use that title in the name for your collective. Why did you choose the name Jazzanova and what exactly does it mean?

Alex Barck

We started a DJ team and we thought, “OK, what do we play?” And it’s obviously everything “jazzy” and I found a record on an old German label called Jazzanova, so we thought, ‘It’s not such a bad name.’ And obviously, like many people who are not into jazz would say, “No, I don’t listen to this kind of music.”

But I’ve got the feeling that it helped us because it’s a very straight word, it works in every language and there are enough jazz fans. And even when they’re not jazz fans, when they listen to us maybe they get into jazz. It’s the same idea how I got into jazz way back in the day. I was listening to modern music, but jazz was suddenly there and still plays an important role for us. For me, jazz is not only the music, it’s more or less a way of how you live, how you feel music and how you listen to music. It’s an open-mindedness that lets you hear more with your heart than your ears.

I want to keep that openness for myself and for the listeners, because suddenly everything changes and you like Brazilian music, and before you were a hard rock fan. It’s possible, I think. I like those transitions and I like to play music to people to make them think about music, not only consuming it. Without too much “infotainment”, of course, but one thing of Jazzanova is quite important, I think, to get people into something.

Benji B

And when you DJ it really is, you change tempos and styles almost every record.

Alex Barck

I would like to. There was a time when I did it really often. It’s changed a little bit I have to say, my perspective of how club music should be is a bit different. Like back in the day, I combined a hip-hop track with a funk track, soul, disco, then I was into house and it was all hopefully possible to follow – not always probably… But it changed when I see myself now as a DJ, I’m standing in the club and I’ve learned about the dynamics of how people listen to music and how they dance to it, and I try to keep it a bit more steady nowadays, but at the same time play the music which creates the same feeling – going from here to there. I like those bridges from playing a hard or deep techno tune then landing in soul.

Benji B

That diversity is probably best reflected by the diversity of some of the people that have asked you to remix for them, can you give us an example of some of the artists that Jazzanova have done remixes for?

Alex Barck

We did several remixes, yeah. The Masters At Work, that was a big pleasure to remix them because they were heroes for us, obviously. 4Hero… I remixed Incognito back then, all the Talkin’ Loud artists, because Gilles Peterson worked for Talkin’ Loud and he liked us so much. There’s some others… recently we did a mix for Common…

Benji B

Which track was that?

Alex Barck

That’s a good question – “Go”. It was a very limited release for Germany only, so a bit hard to get. It’s on the internet probably somewhere. I don’t know what the people really expect from us, because it’s always a bit different. I think they more or less want to be surprised.

Benji B

I remember, was it that Ian Pooley track, that was a [remix], right?

Alex Barck

That was one of the biggest.

Benji B

As far as I remember when that came out that really crossed over to house DJs and tech DJs, loads of different people were into that tune, that was a big catapult for you, right?

Alex Barck

Yeah, it was a bit too fast, actually. We just did a track, I wasn’t really happy, I thought, “I’m not sure.” We didn’t have time, we did it in three days, which is really quick for us, they said, “Yeah, we want to have it.” Then it was there, and suddenly all the house DJs started to play it and house promoters booked us. For me it was too fast and I played suddenly for 2,000 people and tried to play hip-hop and everyone was going, “What the hell does he want from us?” That was a time where I had to learn a lot about the dynamics of clubs and bigger clubs.

Benji B

What year was that? The ’90s?

Alex Barck

Probably ’99.

Benji B

Do you have that with you?

Alex Barck

I have it somewhere. Shall I?

Benji B

If it’s quick, it would definitely might be worth hearing that. So just while you find that, Alex is actually playing it off a double CD that came out, which is called The Jazzanova Remixes 1997-2000…

(music: Ian Pooley – “What’s Your Number?” (Jazzanova Renumber))

Alex Barck

That was actually influenced by, in London, there was this little 2-step [UK garage] thing going on back in the day and I was really impressed by these parties. I had a friend, Noodles from Groove Chronicles, and he showed me the parties and he showed me all the good records of the scene because there were tons of crap material, but there were some really good tunes – and there’s actually one tune I’d like to play as an inspirational tune for me because this was really the tune for me back in the day. It is a Groove Chronicles remix, around 1997.

(music: Damage – “Love Lady” (Chronicles Groove Mix) / applause)

Alex Barck

And so on. The good thing about this tune is you get the people on the floor, it’s very heavy, the bass is nice in the club and it saves the music towards the end, it’s just deep. The original is actually really crap and the remix is so nice and deep and they used a hip-hop sample I really like by a rock band actually called The Cyrkle, the track is called “The Visit”, and that’s the little vocal at the beginning… A Tribe Called Quest, they used it as well. And I was really impressed by this kind of music and the deep 2-step thing, and if you listen to the Ian Pooley remix we just heard before, it has similarities and I know not only house heads but also 2-step guys played it.

Benji B

When it was actually at a reasonable tempo… So let’s talk about your label.

Alex Barck

It’s Sonar Kollektiv.

Benji B

I think any label, independent label, that has existed, this year is 2007, Sonar Kollektiv was started in’97, which makes this your ten-year anniversary, I think any record label that has lasted ten years, it deserves a round of applause in itself [applause]. So, congratulations on surviving, and what’s the secret to survival in the indie record game?

Alex Barck

It’s not easy. Right now, I would say it’s just a crazy idea doing that label. We need so much time to create music, and we thought in the meantime we can actually release other people’s music. That was the beginning and we started getting people into it like DJ Dixon, for instance, he took care of the housier side of things on the label. Then we had Daniel Best, from Best Seven, who was more dub and reggae.

We had several mini A&Rs in the team and they helped us discovering music we probably didn’t know… Daniel more or less discovered Fat Freddy’s Drop for us, and Dixon came up with Âme. We had good people around us and that was the secret, and good music came to us. Then, when all the big distribution companies went bankrupt, we had major problems, so a lot of the money we needed for the cashflow was just not there any more. We had big trouble and had to go to the bank and borrow money and stuff.

We had several points where we had to decide, “Do we move on or do we stop here?” And we always moved on, and it probably has something to do with our love for music. There’s always something interesting and new coming and, from a business point of view it’s a bit silly sometimes to do albums, but I love the music of Dimlite, for instance, which is somehow not sellable, but it touches me. I see the artistic approach and it has to come out somehow, I have the feeling. And even if we pay for it and don’t earn any money… music can be a payment as well, and in terms of what we earn from the Kollektiv, it’s music and that’s a good thing. I’m always happy if there’s something interesting around and we can get it for our label.

Benji B

From a DJ perspective, who’s lucky enough to get the promos and see the product, it just seems like it’s a phenomenal output. There’s always stuff coming out. I mean, how many people do you have running the label and how do you keep up that tempo of releases all the time?

Alex Barck

To be honest with you, I would like to do less releases actually right now. It’s more or less a cashflow thing for us. I can be happy, because I don’t need to put out stuff I don’t like, but to make all the structure work, we have four people working for us and we have in every bigger territory, like the UK, US, Australia, Japan, France and Germany, we have promo agencies and they cost a lot of money.

I don’t really know if you can earn money with record sales. I’m not sure about that. It’s the number of records we sell is just to make it work and I know now why pop music is so successful sometimes, because they invest in stuff, which definitely brings the money back immediately.

It’s not a long-term relationship in most cases, but for them it makes sense. We have to think differently. We have a big catalog and with all the new releases we also offer the old releases, and we try to make it like going around, and sometimes a record just sells over the time and not just like that.

Benji B

But clearly, when you started in 1997, pretty much everyone who was into contemporary music, or DJ-based music, was buying vinyl. In fact, everyone was buying vinyl if you were into that kind of music at that time. Now, a lot has changed. For someone who is thinking about starting a record label in that traditional sense tomorrow, would you say do it or don’t?

Alex Barck

I always say if you believe in it, do it. I just can say that the digital side of things changed a lot, even for us. We are vinyl lovers, we would actually put everything on vinyl, but from a business point of view it’s very difficult right now. The turnover you get for vinyl, 60% of that money is to make the vinyl, and you can’t earn money with it. Maybe if you sell 10,000 it will be possible. But we changed a little bit our strategy. The people who are buying vinyl now are really DJs, I think. And if there’s a DJ tune like Roland Appel - “Dark Soldier”, he is sitting there [in the audience], then we have to put it on vinyl obviously and it sells and then it’s good. But in terms of getting the money back, the CD is much more efficient.

Benji B

What’s good? Give me an idea of what’s good in terms of vinyl sales in 2007 because obviously it’s changed a bit. I mean, what’s a good selling 12” how many copies is that on vinyl?

Alex Barck

On our label?

Benji B

Just generally for independent, for want of a better description, dance music.

Alex Barck

Is Defected an independent label?

Benji B

Yeah.

Alex Barck

Let’s say it like this, if we sell 5,000 vinyl, then it’s good, we are all happy. Everything before I would say it’s promotional material or helps the DJ go on tour, or something like that. But it really depends, if you are as a label a one-man show, then you can sell 500 and still make money on it. But if you are on the level we have now with a bigger structure to sell more records, then you obviously need to sell more records to get the same profit out of it and that’s a little bit of the problem.

If I would start a label right now, I would do it alone and just on my own, but I have the knowledge now how it works. If you start, you need people to make it. But I would never start a label on my own, because it’s crazy and a really hard time right now. If you love music, then it’s difficult anyway. If you don’t see just the business side of things, then it’s hard to earn any money out of it. I told you, it’s sometimes just about the music. For me, it would be enough, but if you want to live from it then it’s difficult.

Benji B

I mean, obviously the label that you run is very much still in the model of the traditional record label with an A&R guy that signs it, presses up vinyl, licensing and everything. For how much longer do you think that traditional model of record label is going to be relevant? Everyone has their own idea of where it might go whether you’re selling tunes through MySpace or Facebook or whatever it is, do you have an idea of what that might be?

Alex Barck

Not really, I just guess how it’s gonna be. Like, have you heard about that Prince record that came out with a newspaper in the UK? That was for free. I think it will go in this direction. I think there will be more and more joint ventures of bigger companies with money, who give the artist straight away all their royalties and possible sales money and then they can polish their image with an artist for the bigger artists, obviously, and for the high-profile artists.

But I think this is the way it could go because music, at least, is supposed to be played live on stage and there’s a listener and he’s listening to this, it’s just an idea. The record itself, it’s nothing. The record is just a medium, the CD is a medium, but the music is free of that and I think it will be free again one day, you know what I mean?

That there is the music there and the listener there, and you can just listen and enjoy it. I still don’t know how the artist will be paid but there will be a way, I’m sure. It’s just an idea, but I’m not so into it. I have to say I like the old model a lot and you can’t really change from now to tomorrow to another model, you have to move there. When we see how our digital stuff is growing slowly but surely, you know, maybe in five years there will be only digital, I don’t know – it saves some oil.

Benji B

Can you tell us some artists that are on the label and then maybe play us something that best represents Sonar Kollektiv?

Alex Barck

Yep. We have on the label several things. We have Clara Hill, the Berlin-based singer, and she is just releasing her third album, which is a bit more kind of folky. Then we have Christian Prommer’s Drumlesson, which is a jazz formation which plays club classics more or less, but it’s made very well. They recorded this album in one day because they are so gifted. This is really like a very spontaneous record, we just had this idea and they did it and it’s perfect. I can play one track. Can I play another track, not “Strings Of Life?” I’ll play my favorite. This is, well, you can guess what it is.

(music: Christian Prommer’s Drumlesson – “Can You Feel It” /applause)

Benji B

OK, competition time. First person to shout out the title of that track and the original artist wins a CD?

Audience Member

Mr Fingers – “Can You Feel It.”

Benji B

And the winner is? Well done. So, Sonar Kollektiv. What’s the future, where we going?

Alex Barck

The future is, I don’t know, good question. The future is already there. We try to reduce a little bit the releases, because it’s too much right now, actually. We need more time to breathe again and to prepare everything even more. We have a very good team there, very tight, it’s all working and it’s nice, but it will be like always, like an on moving then we have to explain every day anew what we really want to do and for ourselves and for the others, and that’s more or less a profile of the label, just explaining all the time.

Benji B

And the Dixon Innervisions thing, is that part of Sonar Kollektiv?

Alex Barck

Not any more.

Benji B

OK, but Dixon was more or less on the house side of things at Sonar Kollektiv.

Alex Barck

Yeah, he did the Recreation series and we started together the Innervisions thing, and I’m actually sad and a bit proud as well that he continued alone. He wanted to stand on his own feet and it’s totally okay with us. I mean, it was really one of the most successful records we out, the “Rej” track by Âme, that was a big-selling record for us. Of course, we’re a bit sad that they’re gone now, but we definitely will work on some CD projects.

Benji B

But it’s still family.

Alex Barck

Of course.

Benji B

OK. And in terms of releases that you have coming up on Sonar Kollektiv in the next few months, what’s that?

Alex Barck

We try to get this new [Mixing] compilation done by 4Hero. Then it’s the Fat Freddy’s Drop album for next year, a new one. Then it’s Roland Appel’s album, which is an overkill for the DJs, a must. Then we have the Jazzanova album coming.

Benji B

And when is that coming?

Alex Barck

[Laughs) That’s a good question.

Benji B

It’s been a good question for about six-and-a-half years. When is that one coming?

Alex Barck

I think in May, that’s the plan and it looks good. What else? There’s many things. There’s a new Computer Incarnation compilation coming with the more modern side of cosmic-whatever-disco, which is compiled by Gerd Janson, one of your boys. And what else? Tons of stuff, I think. There’s actually a quite nice project – we’re doing a German wine guide with Rainer Trüby [laughs]. He’s a wine expert and he’s doing a book for Christmas.

You know what? We were bored, we put out label compilations, one, two, three. And the people were like, “One, two, three...” Then we said we have to change a little bit, because a friend of mine once told me, “There’s nothing more boring than a record label releasing records.” And in a way that’s true. I sometimes think to get the music to the people you can try it differently. Like, the wine guide that we’re doing, or the cookbook we did last year. It’s more or less a Sonar Kollektiv compilation in stealth mode, you really don’t know what it is, but at least it’s a compilation that brings the music to the people, but from a different angle.

Benji B

Does it come with a CD?

Alex Barck

Yes, a CD’s inside and it’s obviously compiled by us, music from our label, but it’s a different idea of getting the music to the people. And it really works. We thought, “The first Sonar Kollektiv compilation was selling good, and slowly but surely, the [sales went down].” You know how it is, if it comes every year [it’s nothing special anymore]. But if you pimp it up with a cook book, then it works [laughs].

Benji B

Take note… and at that point I think it’s a good time to open it up for questions. If anyone wants to ask Alex a question, please don’t be shy.

Audience Member

I know you guys released a lot of compilations, like Homecooking and the latest one, 10 Years – Who Cares?, that’s nice. How many people select the tunes under Jazzanova’s name? And did selling compilations helped you through the hard times, selling compilations is good for your company?

Alex Barck

If I understood right, compilations are quite successful on our label because there was a time when there was too many compilations around and we had the feeling we can’t compete, really. But we’ve learned if you do compilations with love and take your time with sequencing things, it makes sense because it helps the people.

I remember when I started to buy music there were all these funk bootlegs around and it helped me a lot to discover stuff. I couldn’t afford all the other records and so it’s the same with these compilations. I mean, I really like the compilations with old music we did, the Brazilian compilation and the Computer Incarnations. We did one with Romanian jazz, now’s the Cuban jazz coming, Turkish jazz is planned and Argentinean jazz.

This is the stuff I really, really like. When it comes to new music it should come different somehow, like in a mix or with a special idea behind it. Or famous producers, like 4Hero, they just play very influential tunes and mix them with new material. But when it’s a Jazzanova compilation compiled by Jazzanova, then it’s by Jürgen, my partner, and me. We put it together. Of course, it helps a lot to sell a record if you put a big name on it, and I wouldn’t say that we have a big name. A name, which hopefully, people can trust. For us, as a label, it’s quite good to have Jazzanova on it.

Audience Member

I was wondering, the track “L.O.V.E. and You and I,” have you always through the years cleared all the samples of the material you put out?

Alex Barck

We cleared a lot of the samples actually when we did it back in the day. We had to, actually. We found out the first sample, “Something Missing,” was a No 1 hit in the States in the ’60s, but we thought, “Nobody knows that Track” (laughs). From a sample point of view, this record was quite pricy. We paid a lot of money that we nowadays use for musicians, we paid the samples. So it’s more or less the same.

But there were some people contacting us, like [the keyboard player] Jeff Lorber, and we were, “Oh shit! We didn’t clear that sample because it was so small.” And he called us and said, “You used something of my music. Thank you and respect!” That can happen as well. Some people are very easy and some others not. Mostly, the original artist, if they are more or less successful in what they do, are sometimes a bit easier [to deal with] in my experience. And if you sample something off a record with 500 releases, these people are a bit stressful sometimes.

Audience Member

Have you ever decided not to release something because it was too much of a narrow sample?

Alex Barck

It’s 80% of what we do.

Audience Member

Something I’m not quite clear on – I saw your gig at Club Supermarket and thought you’d be playing house music, that kind of thing. But your label, it’s a lot of different styles and different tempos. Do you have any gigs where you play slower stuff, funk and that type of stuff? And how do you decide which genre you stick to when you DJ?

Alex Barck

That’s a very good question. Yes, there are gigs [where I play slower stuff]. I see myself really more as a radio DJ. I have a radio show and the stuff I really like, is to play a radio set. Like, two hours of just good music whatever it is. If I play in Berlin on our own club night, I do a very long warm-up and cool down as well. This is where I play really eclectic, I would say. When it comes to a club gig like here, my experience over the years, when you’re booked as a DJ the people want to dance somehow. I don’t know if you listened to the DJ before on that night, he was on very high level already, and for me it was quite hard to come down again a little bit because the energy was too high already. It was a bit difficult to start with. When the audience responds well, I can do my little journeys. But, to be honest with you, I wasn’t sure that night. It was a bit all over the place for me.

Audience Member

There was a good reaction, though.

Alex Barck

Yeah, reaction was good, but mostly for the uplifting, housier, techier tunes. And that’s the reason why I played them a bit more than normal.

Audience Member

I see a lot of artists from the ’90s going acoustic or going to the things they listened to when they were young. Like Morrissey, the first track you played. So why is that? Also, this event was created for DJs and now we have singers, musicians, producers. Why is that?

Alex Barck

I have to say that I hope that everybody moves somewhere. Everybody has a certain background, and everybody gets older as well. Sounds stupid, but it is like that. I see myself getting more and more into good songwriting, rather than the latest production skills. Of course, if it comes together, that’s perfect for me. If I had to choose between the two, I would go for good songwriting. I’m 35 now and when I’m at home I listen to good old or new music, but obviously not clubby stuff.

Audience Member

No, but I’m talking about a bigger phenomenon… Is it because producers are getting older and getting better at songwriting?

Alex Barck

I think it’s a question of what people really want to hear. The DJ culture was founded back in the ’70/’80s, I would say, and the DJ became very popular during the ’90s. There was a big overflow with DJs so that clubs never ever booked bands anymore. Now it changed a little bit. It’s always going up and down, and either you are on the same swing as the rest of the world or not. And when you’re a DJ suddenly nobody books you any more because they want to have live bands, the stuff what the kids want. Probably, some producers will react to this and say, “OK, people want to have it more live-orientated.” And they bring in more guitars, or they have a killer live show. I mean, even as a DJ or as electronic music producers you can have a good show. It’s not about checking emails on stage, but you have possibilities with Ableton Live and your mixing desk, whatever. I think the DJ thing now is just there and is just as important as the live music side of things.

Benji B

So finally, if we do have the pleasure going to Berlin – seems the whole world is trying to move to Berlin, at least everybody I talk to in the UK wants to move to there – but if we do visit Berlin and we want to catch you on a residency or indeed any of the Jazzanova DJs, how do we do that?

Alex Barck

It’s not that easy right now because we just moved out of the club we played for a long time. I have my own little residency once a month at the Weekend Club on Saturdays, the night is called Based On Misunderstandings.

Benji B

Well, there’s loads and loads and loads more music we could have played but we can all check that out in our own time, so Alex, thank you very much indeed for joining us this afternoon.

[Applause]