Ali Shaheed Muhammad

Ali Shaheed

Peace. How y’all doing?

Audience

All right.

Ali Shaheed

Good.

COGNITO

Yes, yes.

Ali Shaheed

What’s happening, Cognito?

COGNITO

Good, man. Good to see you, brother.

Ali Shaheed

Happy to be here.

COGNITO

Word up, word up. So I’m going to take it back to 1989. As you all can tell by the gray hairs on my chin, I was about 19-years-old around that time, working for a record store out in DC and the store I worked at, we didn’t actually carry hip hop vinyl. So I had to go to a competing record store to actually buy my hip hop wax. And I remember going through, just digging, just looking through stuff and back in them days, before mp3’s clearly, I would just buy things just based off of the record cover alone. Sometimes I didn’t even know who the group was but there might just be something about the cover that made me buy it. I picked up a 12" and the 12" was “Description of a Fool” by A Tribe Called Quest. I went home and I played that record and I played that record and I played that record so much. There was something about it. Me not even knowing the Gil Scott-Heron reference because back then we didn’t care where it was sampled from. To be honest with you, I thought a lot of the hip hop stuff that I was hearing at that time was like, “These are the most incredible musicians ever. Like, oh my God. Like, whoa!” Going back to work in that record store, I’m the only Black guy working there. All the rock people that worked there, they would get all the rock promos and there would be all these rap promos that they just passed down to me. One day I get a promo for People’s Extensive Travels and the Path of Rhythms. When I tell you I felt so good having that and knowing I was the first kid in my school to have that joint, that album changed my life in a way that a lot of hip hop records have changed my life. But it’s something about that record that these cats were talking to me. They were talking my language. Do you know what I’m saying? I’d listened to other hip hop, I’d listened to Run DMC and stuff of that nature, but they always seemed like older cats to me, which they probably were. But these were the cats that were talking to me. I felt like I’m having a conversation with these dudes and I never knew who they were. Do you know what I’m saying? So, thank you.

[applause]

Straight up and down. Do you know what I’m saying?

Ali Shaheed

Thank you. First of all, is the sound person close by? I’m extremely soft spoken so can you cut me up?

COGNITO

Turn my mic up.

Ali Shaheed

Can you guys hear me in the back? If not, let him know. You can hear me? Okay. I just wanted to make sure because we won’t be doing this again. This is it for me. Thank you. I don’t really know what to say to that. It’s a lot of years later and to hear you share your experiences, it’s touching and it’s just kind of still bugged out after all the years, and all of the records, and all of the cities to know that what we were doing as dreamers and striving for something really affected people. You’re here. You say you’re from DC? I never knew that. From my introduction to you, I don’t recall if it’s like New York or Atlanta but I’ve seen you through the years and you’re here in LA and I know that there are many people in LA that may be here right now and you’re not from LA but it’s touched you and we’re still global and together. So it’s just kind of bugged out. It’s a whole lot of things that are dancing through my head but thank you for, everyone here, allowing us to be involved in your life like that. Music is intimate. It really is. I’m still just very appreciative to hear something like that. Yeah.

COGNITO

So I don’t know who actually lost their wallet in El Segundo, but did you ever find it?

[laughter]

Ali Shaheed

 ”Got to get it. Got, got to get it.”

[applause]

COGNITO

I’m looking over to a joint man that just really set off that album. Do you know what I mean? Come to find out years later that this is the man who actually produced it.

(music: A Tribe Called Quest – “Push It Along” / applause)

How old were you when you made that beat?

Ali Shaheed

Oh wow. I’m tripping on other things you guys. I guess that’s what we’re here for, to see what’s going to peel this open, right? Before I even answer that, the Creator is amazing you know, sends blessings all the time. [points to Maseo] Like, the fact that you’re sitting right there, just the way you popped up in here.

COGNITO

Shout out to Maseo over in the house.

Ali Shaheed

Shout out to Maseo, Plug 3.

COGNITO

It’s the whole caboodle.

Ali Shaheed

It’s just like I often don’t think that the Creator has a sense of humor but I’m starting to believe it a little bit. So the fact you’re sitting here, it means a lot to me. I know that we were coming to this, but just the fact that you’re sitting right there. I say that because I’m listening to that and I’m hearing actually Afrika’s voice in the background from The Jungle Brothers. It’s just like, wow. I’m thinking of Mr. Long sliding me that drum break. I’m thinking of a whole bunch of different things and even the opening was somewhat controversial in the studio to jump it off because it’s just so kind of like nerdy and whatnot but it was to symbolize the beginning of A Tribe Called Quest and being like the baby’s offspring of The Jungle Brothers. That particular song is very monumental for me and it just set off the whole record and just hearing Q-Tip’s, his voice is still just nasally but just smooth and it’s like you want to just consume it. His cadence is crazy. We were 18 when we did that. That’s a long time ago.

Cognito

Yeah. And thank you for not getting Q-Tip any Sudafed to like clear up that nasally thing. Do you know what I’m saying? To think back, we’re talking ’88, ’89?

Ali Shaheed

Yes.

COGNITO

At that time, and I know because you were ’70s? 1970?

Ali Shaheed

I was born in ’70.

COGNITO

All right. I’m a 1970s kid and I know in 1989, ’88, I loved music and I thought about making music but the way you all were creating music in New York City, being the birthplace of hip hop, at 18-, 19-years-old, what was going through your head? What is it about that city that helped form the creative landscape that you had at that time?

Ali Shaheed

New York City is such a different type of city than it was back then when we were kids in comparison to Los Angeles. One thing that I’ve learned from coming here throughout the years is that it’s just a different culture. You have this really small city and you have like eight million people from all different ethnic backgrounds and so there is an air of progressiveness to it but, at the same time, there’s certain aspects that are covered and are oppressive. It’s kind of a weird dynamic and paradox for that to exist where you have this sort of sophistication and sort of advanced way of being communal and really embracing. You can have neighborhoods where it could be mostly Italian, but you got Blacks and Puerto Ricans in there and everybody’s kicking it. There’s so much happening there and it’s kind of hard to really explain but it was just this tension that existed, because so much has come through New York City that may seem to be on a cutting edge of this sound, of just life in general. The Civil Rights Movement was different in New York than it was in the south. So it’s just all these different things and you have these structures of buildings where most of the country things are spread out and you got space at least. You got space. If you can do this and not touch anyone, that feels good. Like on an airplane, we can’t do that. In New York City when we’re living in these tenements, it’s tension. So it’s just kind of like I said a weird kind of paradox between the two. You have financial mammoths just across the bridge, but in these tenements and these squeezed up buildings, neighborhoods without grass, neighborhoods without trees, it’s the concrete jungle. It just creates a certain sort of a environment for life and I guess it came out in the music. I think when we were making our music, which was different than I want to say like the hip hop generation before us which, for me, is only like a four to seven year span. It was way different than that. James Brown was killing it and we were kind of like on that vibe way early. So we weren’t really embraced coming with these sorts of grooves that we were coming with, only because it was different. But when you have a vision and you’re determined, you push through that and I think that’s what is evident in hip hop as it began. It was through not having that the art form was created and still persevering and trying to reach out and express the oppression that’s happening in the ghettos. Coming together to try to escape it, what Afrika Bambaataa did by bringing kids together to stop like whiling out, stop robbing banks, find some other outlet. What we were doing with Tribe, and I know the same things with De La and I know you’re here to tell your story, it was the same sort of thing where you’re breaking through the mundane and what you’re told you’re supposed to be, what you’re supposed to do, and knowing somewhere in heart and mind that no, there’s supposed to be more than this. And so it came out in the music.

COGNITO

There was something else that happened around that time that was kind of unheard of. Y’all released at VHS cassette. Why y’all laughing? Y’all know what a VHS is right? Okay. All right. Don’t make me feel too old. Dang! But that cassette was tour footage of y’all on tour with the Jungle Brothers overseas and this is off the first album.

Ali Shaheed

Yeah. I think, with not having a lot of information on, in hip hop it was so new. How to do things was so new, you didn’t really have a blueprint but we in a way, I use this word not in the full meaning of the word, but we idolized groups like the Beatles, Jimi Hendrix. And we had learned that Jimi Hendrix kind of went to Europe and did a jump off before things came back here to the States and caught this wave. We were fortunate to have certain people in the music industry kind of pay attention to us because of the Jungle Brothers, because of De La, so the success those two groups had to want to see us be catapulted in a proper way. We were like, “Let’s do something crazy. Let’s go to London.” The only time I or Q-Tip had ever been there was just to shoot a Jungle Brothers video. We were there maybe six hours. We were on a plane and some hotel that was like the size of this couch and then shipped back off to the US. I remember the A&R to this day, actually he’s running the show at Sony right now, I always had a grudge against him because he treated us so badly, but...

Maseo

[From audience] Me too, I remember.

Ali Shaheed

And it’s nothing personal to him now but, you know, just completely understanding now what his job was. We just wanted to go to Europe and have it documented. It was interesting because the good thing with cameras, you don’t have to show everything. In France in particular, we were opening, I think it was KRS on that bill, and there wasn’t really a warm reception for A Tribe Called Quest. I don’t even think the first album was out yet. So even here in LA, I have to admit, when we first came here, there was not a lot of love for us.

COGNITO

Hence why you lost your wallet and never got it back.

Ali Shaheed

Is that what it was, it’s the inside Califiornia joke. Let’s get these dudes right here. Got ‘em from Brooklyn. I should have saw it coming and I just missed it completely.

[laughter]

But that’s what the deal was with that with VHS. My mind instantly said LaserDisc when you said VHS.

COGNITO

Oh, you have it on LaserDisc?

Ali Shaheed

Yeah. I had the joint on LaserDisc. But it was really cool because...

COGNITO

That’s pre-Blu Ray, for you all.

[laughter]

Ali Shaheed

We were able to look back at what we had accomplished and it gave us more of a drive, a determination of really like just hit it hard and to bring our art form, our side, our story, our look to the people. I think that it was good. It’s like New York is a very tough place and lots of cities in America is tough when it comes to embracing something new in music but it’s just something about Europe, they will ask you questions and really go deep into your art. You need that sometimes to really see what’s inside and see if there is something that you are missing or that you are overinflated about. I think it was excellent for us to come back home and take that experience and tighten up our stage game.

COGNITO

Were you a DJ before Tribe? Were you DJing your freshman dance or homecoming?

Ali Shaheed

Not the freshman dance, but yes, I was DJing actually in my neighborhood. I got a little bit of a reputation, which was cool. There were like six of us on a block, Decatur Street, Brooklyn. I was the only one who didn’t have a set of turntables. I had a mixer. My mom, she saved up enough to get this Realistic mixer made by Radio Shack. Yeah, always right. I love my mom.

Maseo

[inaudible from audience]

Ali Shaheed

Exactly. [laughs] I treasured that but in addition to that, I had these little, it wasn’t Fisher Price but it was not an official DJ set up. So there were some guys on the block, specifically this guy named Mark. His parents had dough and they gave Mark everything. So we used to pile up into Mark’s basement and battle, battle, battle. I would save up my money, buy records. There’s the other kid named Reg. He bought mad records and Mark. There was this other guy named Keith. Keith had equipment and records but because I didn’t have the full for real DJ set up, I was on their set. I was just like very much focused. I’m in here until their parents kick us out. We got five hours to get it in and I was just really focused on learning what it was I needed to learn and go home and sit there with my Realistic mixer and go, “Ma, you really got to get me some turntables.” Belt-drive turntables were the up and coming and I have to say, any DJs out here in the room, you guys know about the belt? You’re young enough to appreciate those. It was really not the best turntables compared to the Technics 1200, which is the master of turntables, but trying to explain that to your mom. It’s like trying to explain an mp3 player to your great grandmother. It’s like, “What are you talking about?” So she did her best, she really did. But all of that, I’m saying just caused me to really focus, focus, focus. I don’t remember what she got me. She got me something. It was a little step up. It wasn’t the belt- drive joints that everyone else had, but I continued to just stay in my room and practice and practice and practice. So I got a little bit of a reputation in the neighborhood for DJing and I don’t even know how Q-Tip discovered that because if you haven’t seen the documentary, he and I met in junior high school and he had said to me, “I got this crew. I heard you pretty good. Why don’t you make me a mix tape.” I was like, “Okay.” So I made the tape and I don’t remember what I put in there but I had mad records. He liked it and that’s how things kind of formed, like we formed the group.

COGNITO

Now, at that time, the DJ was a very integral part of the creative process in some of the most classic joints of hip hop at that time. Now it seems that’s kind of gone to the wayside. Not a lot of rap records that we hear today, the DJ doesn’t get that shine but back then, the cuts were almost as important as the lyrics, almost as important as the beat on a lot of songs. I’m going to play a joint right now that, to me, I knew the cuts before I actually knew the lyrics to the song.

(music: A Tribe Called Quest – “Clap Your Hands” / applause)

Where do you think it’s gone? Like, what happened to that? Where did it go? Where did it go?

Ali Shaheed

I wish I had the answer to that. Honestly, I can only guess that technology somewhat played a role into the shift of DJs and other people making music. I think somewhat like music, it just evolves. It happens and there are certain people who continue to display the core of the group so that something is not lost in human communication. It really doesn’t matter what instrument you play, at some point, you get away from some other important aspects. For hip hop, that’s the foundation. So it’s upsetting to know that there’s not enough of an emphasis on that sort of thing. I want to shout out DJ Rhettmatic here because...

COGNITO

Beat Junkies...World Famous

Ali Shaheed

He’s certainly keeping it alive and there are people who keep it alive. I don’t really know how to answer that question. I don’t know if I have the answer for it. I, myself, I get to a point where even when I’m making music, I’m like, “You know you got to put something on it.” But I don’t want to over do it because, at some point, I want to say like mid-’90s, you would hear rubs on everything, like everything, even a commercial that didn’t have a hip hop background. It was the kick drum rub and it just got to a point where it was like is this what it’s become? I tend to have this thing, this challenge of not doing what people expect or want and that’s probably my own internal struggle and maybe some other DJs and producers out there have that. I’m thinking about when you asked that question and I have like Barry White in my head and I don’t know why, but I think because if Barry White was in our golden era age, he probably would have been a DJ. James Brown would have been a DJ. Miles would have been a DJ. So I don’t think that there’s too much of a departure. It’s just a matter of how being a DJ is being applied. There’s certain type of blends, certain type of mixes. There’s turntablism, there’s different sub factors. I don’t know what word to use that encompass being a DJ. I think it is being applied in hip hop for certain people and it’s still being pushed.

COGNITO

We going to push.

Ali Shaheed

Wait, I just thought about it. You know what happened? Rahzel and Scratch, that’s what happened. I’m just teasing because I love them. Really, sincerely, it was just a joke. They are dope and you know you would hear something Rahzel did and it was like, “Yo, I can’t do that.” It would mess you up. I don’t know. All right.

COGNITO

Word, that’s what’s up. You not only produced joints for, and during your Tribe era, but you’ve done some classics that cats probably don’t even know you did. I’m going to play a joint right now that’s probably going to mess a lot of you all’s heads up to even know that he did this beat. There we go.

(music: Fu-Schnickens – “La Schmoove” / applause)

Yeah, that was my guy.

Ali Shaheed

Thank you.

COGNITO

How was that break? What was it at that point when clearly you were making beats for your own crew, but then you go outside of the crew and start doing joints?

Ali Shaheed

Good question. It was more to strengthen the crew.

COGNITO

Because they kind of came out how you all did under Jungle Brothers and De La and they weren’t necessarily part of Native Tongue but they were kind of an extension of...

Ali Shaheed

Yeah, they were definitely an extension. It seemed like when the Fu-Schnickens had come, it seemed like a couple of decades behind us, even though it really wasn’t. Maybe four or five years. But for me, it was just like Tribe is growing and building and that was just a matter of building up the brand. That’s why it says, produced by A Tribe Called Quest. It was just to build up the brand.

COGNITO

Were you all thinking in that manner? It seems like that’s how a lot of things are being done today, like marketing wise people were looking at what they’re doing musically and they’re creating their brand before they’ve even manufactured anything. Do you know what I’m saying? So at that time, is that what you all were thinking?

Ali Shaheed

Yeah, we were still fresh and new so much to the point that we would drive our managers crazy because we didn’t want to go on the road. For us, we knew it was all about the music. The music is the most important thing and if you get the music right, then you can always go out and deliver and touch people and have that sort of experience. But if the music isn’t correct, then it’s like everything that you’re doing is for nothing. That was more of I think us really establishing our culture of saying, “We have to put music out. We have to just stay in the studio and record.” There was a lot that we wanted to do with the brand. Certain things were realized at that time and certain things was just innately moving one foot in front of the other. You know it’s going to get you somewhere. You’re not sure where but the only way you’re going to get there is if you do that and they say that the hardest step in the thousand mile journey is the first step. That’s what that was, just trying to strengthen the brand and move it in places that we could only dream of like where it is now. The success that artists have now, that’s what we were pushing for. That’s what we were striving for. To see the type of stage that Kanye even delivers. We were talking about those sorts of things, again going back to the bands that we studied, looking at the Beatles who, to us, were the ultimate band because they got everything that they wanted and dictated to their record company to the extent that they became their record company. Their managers, really, it was them. Something that we also learned from De La, they really early on empowered themselves with aligning themselves with a strong manager. It’s just certain things that you watch people around you do. We watched certain things that Jungle was doing and how they got the Warner Brothers deal and that was like massive, major. All these little elements that you try to use to get you to that big, big dream. Like the stage that Kanye had, we were talking about that’s what we want. We want that kind of a understanding from the people who were pushing our music, and they really didn’t get it. Our entire dream didn’t come to fruition but it was the start, and that’s the most important thing.

COGNITO

So you bring up record labels. You also had a stint as an A&R and tell us about that experience.

Ali Shaheed

That experience was a challenging one internally because we have this creative thing going where it’s about making the music is important, but at the same time we’re building a brand. Fighting the record companies seemed to be our every day. I thought that the best way for us to really have an understanding and to advance ourselves beyond these obstacles that we were having with the record company would be to go work for a record company. A friend of mine said, “Hey, Quincy Jones is looking for an A&R.” I was like, “For real? How do I get in?” I had to have a job interview. Two, in fact. That was a real learning experience because, again, it was kind of separating from the recording just a little bit. Not that much. I was in the studio every day but just having to separate myself to understand what this whole corporate structure was about and how to get things done because Q-Tip and I wanted to sign our own artists and put them out, like Vinia Mojica was like one of the artists, she was like number one in the chamber for us to really get that cracking but we needed to have a real know how, so I did that. It was real corporate. [laughter] You have to understand, and I don’t know how much time we have, but this is probably for me one thing that I really want to convey to all of the musicians here, not even musicians, just whatever it is you’re doing in life, when you have an idea like making music or forming a business and you form alliances and partnerships, you have, I think, maybe this unspoken interaction in part of the relationship that we talked about this thing together so we’re moving together for this particular thing. But people have their own agendas. It can be extremely frustrating if you’re not aware of the agenda. If you’re not aware of the language of the environment that you’re in, it doesn’t matter what type of relationship it is. If you don’t know the language that the person is speaking, there’s going to be a point where you’re looking at each other like, “Huh? What? Huh? What? I don’t understand.” Or one person may feel offended, only because they don’t speak the language and you just did something that completely violated whatever they live and stand for.

Maseo

Protocol, that’s the corporate term. Protocol.

Ali Shaheed

Protocol. Word!

[laughter]

I was in an environment that I thought that I understood the language and I did not. When a good friend, who happens to have been a publicists for the group, Leyla Turkin, passes me a Black Eyed Peas tape and I’m like, “Yo, let’s sign this.” They’re like, “Don’t get that.” Or when Corey Glover, who was the lead singer for Living Colour was breaking off doing his solo joint, I’m like, “Yo, let’s get that.” They’re like, “Nah.” When you hear that Common is about to break away from Relativity and you want to be in there and I met with Common and like, “Yo, what do you need to get out of the situation?” He put it on the table. “Yo, let’s go get that.” “No.” You start to look at the environment and go, “What’s going on here? Am I not speaking the language?” I have faith and understanding for choosing my words cautiously, obviously.

Maseo

I know.

Ali Shaheed

It becomes somewhat disheartening and, depending on the cause that you’re in and what you really believe, like you thought everyone was here and you’re going all hard, it can really just knock the wind out of you for a minute and you’re completely passed out and unconscious. That’s what kind of happened with that situation and here it is, I’m battling with my brothers, “I need to do this for the us situation.” Then that’s the kind of environment that I’m in. It was like two struggles. It was ’96, ’97, Beats, Rhymes and Life album. There was a lot going on at that time. Languages was just in a lot of situations, we were all speaking different languages. It came out in the music and those other people went on to be superstars. Also, The Neptunes because they were just popping off and I was trying to secure them for the label to be in-house producers. I remember one of my bosses said, “As long as you are first to the party, it doesn’t matter.” And that’s the record company mentality at that time. I don’t know if he said that to make me feel better, but being first to the situation to finding an artist is not really important. I believe in these artists and these people and I believe I’m in a house that understands music and is really trying to push the art form and the culture and all these things and you have an artist-driven record company, owned by an artist. It’s a huge wake up call that even though that’s the case, there’s a protocol. It’s kind of like, I’ve never been locked up, but I have several friends who have been locked up. They know my heart, my mind. They know how strong of a person that I am and they were like shocked. When you get indoors, the rules are different. You will be challenged. So it’s no different in life and where we are now. You really learn some things. I learned a lot in being in that situation and I’m very thankful that they hired me. I was up against someone else who would have gotten the job and I think he would have taken the losses in stride because he worked for another company and he was cool. But for me, I needed that job to just really strengthen me for the other things that were about to happen. Like I said, all those guys went on to be superstars and I could just sit back and go, “Yup, could have signed them. Yup, super star. Mad money. Icons. Shaking hands with Presidents. Okay.”

COGNITO

You seem to get through that time period pretty well because from around that time, I guess after Love Movement, you started doing some more outside production and you did something that sounded like this.

(music: D’Angelo – “Brown Sugar” / applause)

Ali Shaheed

Thank you.

COGNITO

That transition, going from doing the type of hip hop that you were doing to working with live musicians and you went on to do so many other joints, Mary J. Blige, doing remixes for Scritti Politti out of London, old ’80s cats, you know what I’m saying? Maroon 5. Doing all kinds of stuff. Do you know what I mean? You also went on to do a group with some incredible cats. Raphael Saadiq, Tony! Toni! Toné!, Dawn Robinson from En Vogue, you all created Lucy Pearl. Talk about that experience in just going from one group that was at that status that they were to doing a whole other genre of music in a way.

Ali Shaheed

That whole process again, just thinking about the Creator and the Creator’s movement and blessings, really it just started back when I was a kid. My mom listened to a lot of different music and that always stayed with me and it always pushed me to be open. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, but my mom would send me away to camps far away, just so I could get out of the hood and I didn’t like her much for that at the time.

Audience member

El Segundo.

Ali Shaheed

But my mom, in her wisdom, understood that there was more to the neighborhood than the streets of Brooklyn and she wanted me to experience and be exposed to different things. That whole kind of mixture of movement of different artists is just the culmination of that my mom, really, doing her job. Thank you, mom. To expose me to the world and educating me. Different people, different experiences and just to try to be open to it. You may have your own belief system and your own ideas and foundation of what you’re supposed to be, how you should move, but just to be open to it and the one beautiful thing about music is I found that when I don’t understand other people, music is a language that I understand. It just resonates with me, even if there are no words on there. There’s chords and the accompaniment or arranging of certain instruments just, on a frequency level, it touches us with some sort of electric kind of interaction. I leave myself open to that. The D’Angelo thing, he’s an incredible singer and even D is a crazy hip hop head and his music is just hip hop to me, period. Point blank. With that voice of his on top of it and Scritti Politti, you’re funny, from the ‘80s. Yeah. I had Scritti Politti records when I was...

Audience member

 “Perfect Way” was the joint.

Ali Shaheed

When I got that call, I was like, “For real?” Like, “Perfect Way” was the joint. I’m like, “What am I going to do?” I always have this nervous factor when I get calls. I’m like, “I have no idea what I’m going to do. I’m going to mess this up. This is the worst. They should have never called me, like never.” The Creator does what the Creator does. Even “Brown Sugar” was a complete accident. We were working on something completely different that D and I had picked out. I’ve been a Mac user for 24 years and my Mac, I’ve never touched a PC. Heard the stories about the bugs, but I was having issues in the studio. I thought there were actually ghosts in the room because this one particular room in Battery [Studios], the C room, things just happened in there and I had learned from Raphael Saadiq, in working with him early on, working with the Tone’s, they kept tape running. I kept tape running and I was just like, “Man, we’re wasting money. This guy is sitting here. He’s playing his keyboard. When is this cat going to get his business together.” I’m looking at the engineer. He’s clueless because I’m using equipment that they were not using and I embrace technology, so I’m into buying stuff and trying it out and so it was really all on me to fix this program. Even talking about programs and stuff like, it was just too early in the game. Now it’s natural. Everyone uses Logic, Pro Tools, Cakewalk and all the other ones, but back then, it was just early and stuff wasn’t working and D started playing this one bass line and I was like, “What is that?” He was like, “I don’t know. Just waiting for you to finish.” In 15 minutes, the song was done because I had just deaded whatever what was going on and got to this. Lucy Pearl, again just being open to the conversation, to the experience and Raphael is like a big brother to me and actually that wasn’t supposed to be doing Robinson. That was supposed to be D’Angelo but he was working on Voodoo and he just couldn’t commit at the time. If you guys really study Raphael Saadiq. He thinks a lot and you hear it in the music, but if you really look at him, you see the thought process in every Tony! Toni! Toné! album. If you look at their records, if you look at their stage performance, because if you look at what he’s doing on his solo thing, he thinks. Lucy Pearl was like him thinking and going, “I’m going to shoot it out there. Tell me what you think.” When he said the words, it was just like, “Let’s do it.” And the rest is history on that. So you just got to be open. I am often DJing around the world, I’m thankful and blessed to be able to still do this thing that I love to do, but I have some die hard hip hop heads who don’t want to hear Lucy Pearl. They don’t care about Maroon 5. They could care less about anything, just keep it hip hop, period, point blank. In this particular era, thank you very much, I’ll have a good night and if not, there’s going to be a lot of fuck you notes on your DJ booth. I love that kind of situation because I’m like, “Well, that’s not how I was raised so if you here in my house, oh man, you’re going to get it because I’m going to play Talking Heads or whatever.” That’s what I do. I love music. It’s just me being in those situations is me being me, trying one, to go against the rules, not do what everyone thinks I should do. That sort of thing. I’m very rebellious. It’s to my detriment. It really is. I’m learning that now at 41 that I should stop being so rebellious against certain things and go with the flow but there’s just something in me that just goes, “I know if I did that, it would be okay, but I want to be beyond okay. Okay is cool, but I just want to be at peace, knowing I pushed the limits in some capacity with the art form.” We are all given new canvases every day that the Creator lets the sun rise on us and there are certain things that we have to do that’s somewhat conditioned in movement in your daily basis, but then there’s other things that you can throw on that canvas that’s just enlightened your life or someone else’s life differently. That’s just my approach to music is just like that.

COGNITO

We’re at the point where we’re going to open up the floor for some questions from you all. Is there anyone out there that has a question? Somebody’s going to pass you the mic.

Audience member

Concerning the creative process, being that you’ve been involved so long in it, what are some of the things that have helped you push past a creative plateau? Let’s say you’ve reached the point where you’re like, “Man, I’m at the same place. I need to get through it. Should I just stop? Should I keep going?” What, for you as an artist, helped you to push past that point?

Ali Shaheed

Always being open to listening to different things. I’m inspired by people who come after me and to not be closed off. There are certain things that I think may irritate us all in certain areas of music and genres of music, but I still kind of keep that, “Yeah, I don’t like this business that’s going on in this song, but this is something that’s just like wow, I didn’t think about that.” You know, and studying that sort of thing what someone else is doing. Sometimes, it’s like I said, it’s mistakes. I just had actually two weeks apart, I lost a hard drive just two weeks ago. I was in Toronto doing this John Legend session and it was just like the first time I was sitting with him and I’m like, “My hard drive is gone. What on earth are we going to do now? I back everything up, but the back up is in Brooklyn.” I just wanted to leave and be like, “Yo, sorry B. You just came to Toronto for nothing. Sorry.” I lost inspiration but the Creator’s like, “No, you’re going to get through it,” and actually made a banging joint for him with him and my boy, Doc [McKinney]. There’s just little things that happen in life and you just have to look at them and when you’re having a cloudy day, look at something different and go, “Yeah, it’s raining over here but this rain may be bringing something that’s beautiful that I’m just not aware of yet.” Or it may be even too sunny, like, “Yo, too much sun. I need some shade.” But just to be aware and open. I don’t know if that helps.

COGNITO

Any other questions?

Audience member

Got one right here. First of all, it’s an honor to hear you speak and it’s really inspirational. Tribe was the reason I got into hip hop.

Ali Shaheed

Thank you.

Audience member

I remember before Midnight Marauders came out, I was waiting and waiting and waiting for it to come out and I just remember hearing you guys were having some trouble with sample clearance, things like that. I’m a producer myself. I wonder if you could touch upon the dramas that you went through with all the samples that you guys used, where that sits now, and also, where you’re at now when you create music and do you trip on worrying about sampling? Do you have certain rules that you use? Things like that.

Ali Shaheed

The nightmares of samples still haunt you. Any musician who’s really making a living off of their music, there are like two vital months you’re relying on when you’re not touring especially and that’s, what is that, March, April-ish and September, October, because that’s when your royalty checks come. Just last year, I saw a huge depletion for some samples from 15 years ago. I was really relying on that check. Those are the lessons you learn and you could not have known that back then. You still get knocks on the door saying, “You used our music,” and especially with the documentary, it’s just turning the spotlight on us a little bit more and someone’s grandson is now 18, 19, and they’re a hardcore digger and, “Yo, granddad or grandma, that’s your joint. We all, friends, let’s work it out.” And you’re like, “Oh! Yeah, we’re going to work it out.” Those things are still happening and back then, it didn’t discourage us, it just made us want to go, “Alright, they’re onto us so okay we got to do this. We have to clear this. Let’s figure out a way to get around it.” So you start chopping up your samples and just manipulating them. Love when that filter came and that MPC. The filter was just like, “Thank you, God.” Especially back then, the filter was like you covered some things up and no one could really identify it unless they was doing what you were doing. Technology, I guess, helps cultivate the whole sampling thing and also it inspired me to really pick up playing bass seriously and then moving onto guitar and then moving onto the piano and drums. That’s the rhythm section and for hip hop that’s really all you need. It has allowed me to say, “Okay, I don’t have any children. I would like to have children. I want them to be able to eat off of this and they’re not going to eat as much if I sample everything so let me find a way to be inspired.” Because it’s always been inspiration. The first needle to the groove was just because I was a kid listening to the records like this like, “Man, what are they thinking about? What are they doing?” I’m still like that. “What are they doing?” I challenge myself because I can easily just throw the needle into the groove, chop it up and I’m like, “No, there’s emotions. There’s more stuff happening here.” It forces me to play and explore my own self and, guess what? I made that no samples and someone’s going to sample you sort of a thing. So it’s just like keeping the conversation of music moving forward. I get a lot of criticism from my loved ones like, “Why are you not sampling?” I mean, like home loved ones. “It’s better when you sample. You know that, right? You really do know that?”

[laughter]

Like, “Why are you, that’s that right there. Why do you go over here?” I did explain that I kind of like to go against the grain and go against what I’m supposed to do. I’m aware of it and I don’t know how to get around it but it’s a struggle.

Audience member

There we go. You emphasized earlier about building up your team and, even when you produce things yourself, it says produced by A Tribe Called Quest. One of the things I always wondered, even with the albums, what was the dynamic between you, Tip, Phife, Jarobi and even when Dilla came into the creative process for the last two albums? How did you guys play off each other and how was the dynamic when you were creating those records?

Ali Shaheed

It’s an awesome kind of energy. How do I explain this? I went to a concert a couple of months ago and I saw Gary Clark, Jr. play. There were only two people on the planet I wanted to call and go, “Oh my God!” Q-Tip was one and Raphael Saadiq was the other. There are just people who you don’t really have to say much, it’s just like you’re there, you’re vibing, you’re thinking the same thing. It was a lot of fun. Jarobi is extremely funny and he and Phife together are like Abbott and Costello. They greatly entertained us. It was just a love affair, really. I don’t know how to explain it. When the Creator blessed us to get Dilla’s demo, that was just like he came at the right time because we were at a point where, not that everything was routine, but there were certain aspects of our life that were just so routine and we needed something to push us in a different direction. Had we kept going this way, only the Creator knows and I think that’s why Dilla came in and sort of resuscitated us a little bit. It’s like he was inspired by us. But he had his own everything, his own universe. He was in our world, but it was more like we were in his world because it was just like, “How does he come in and do this so quick?” We’re just sitting here for hours chopping and doing all this and Dilla would just come in and ‘boop, boop, boop’, and go back upstairs and you’re like, “I’m sitting there for weeks and months trying to achieve that what he just did in minutes.” That was fun because it was sort of like a competitive pushing each other on in a very positive way. It was just a great environment, great experience.

COGNITO

Word.

Ali Shaheed

Do you have another question? A couple more questions?

COGNITO

We got to move on. We got to wrap it up, B. But in parting, man, thank you for coming and speaking because watching the documentary, we didn’t get to hear you speak. It’s good to get you in this forum to actually speak your clout. Do you know what I’m saying?

Ali Shaheed

Thank you. I was shown that what I said was enough so I didn’t have to speak more. So thank you for giving me an opportunity in a forum to speak a little bit more. I don’t like speaking but I actually do love the sharing of knowledge. I said to you guys, I’d rather [see] we set up some stuff and we can have a back and forth kind of exchange like, “This is how you program, this is how I program.” I’m that kind of dude. I love this sort of interaction. It’s more important than talking about other things I think people want to talk about. I’m just really about really sharing knowledge. So thank you for giving Red Bull Music Academy the balls. Just anyway. No, I just heard a story about, what’s his name? Dietrich [Mateschitz], the owner, it could be a rumor, if anyone here from Red Bull knows and is cool with the NDA and they can share this information with me about he has like this property in Austria that’s really super amazing and it has like water and all this stuff. Have you been there? I mean, I’m just really interested. I’ve never had a Red Bull but I’m just really interested.

[laughter]

The company, it is a billion dollar company that celebrates energy and people doing this and they’re doing a positive thing. I’d like to see more exposure on the Red Bull site for the Red Bull Music Academy personally. There’s a lot of other things on that website. I would love to see a link for the Red Bull Music Academy because what you guys are doing for hip hop specifically is awesome and empowering. They need to get the message.

COGNITO

Well, there’s redbullmusicacademy.com and they got their own space.

Ali Shaheed

You got to do that, like when you’re not given certain things, you’ve got to be like, “Yo, I’m going to take this record here, back it up here, and then take this record here, back it up there. I don’t need my drummer. I just got my own drum beat going.” So you have to do those things. But at some point, you’re going to really want support to move and advance. We’re trying to advance the culture so it would be dope to have like a Red Bull Music Academy link on the Red Bull website. That’s all I’m saying.

COGNITO

And on that note, we want to thank Ali Shaheed Muhammed for coming and speaking with us.

Ali Shaheed

Thank you everyone.