Alice Bag

Teri Gender Bender

Como estan todos aqui, que gusto veer los. It’s such a pleasure seeing you guys, here. This is such an honor to be able to present this guest that we have right now, which I will tell you shortly who it is. This will be a conversation with Alice Bag. Ahhhhhhhiiiiiiii! Presented by Red Bull Music Academy Festival in Los Angeles, presented in partnership with One National Gay and Lesbian Archives at the USC Libraries and Access Mundo Queer Networks in Chicano Los Angeles.

So, how’s everyone feeling tonight? Alice? Oh my gosh. I stole it from you.

Alice Bag

Bandita!

Teri Gender Bender

How are you? Como estas?

Alice Bag

I am good. I’m so happy to be here with you guys. I am feeling a little bit sick, so if I throw up, we decided that we would work it into the performance. Just be prepared.

Teri Gender Bender

You have to roll with the punches. So, basically, here, this is a living legend. I’m sorry to put you on the spot. I know how hard it can be sometimes to hear... They’re not just compliments. It’s truth. She is part of history. She’s a historical figure in the punk scene, in the feminist scene, and basically in the community.

Alice Bag

Thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

She’s inspired many people to stand up for themselves, and to believe that silence is not the only way. That there’s more things in this earth than to keep it locked inside, and you’re an inspiration, and if it weren’t for you, we wouldn’t be here, so thank you so much.

Alice Bag

Thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

So, Alice Bag was 19 years old when she became the voice and front woman of one of Los Angeles’ most surreal and punk acts, the Bags. Bag played a crucial role during the early years of LA punk, contributor to the feminist movement and community by being an educator and giving endless of herself, not only to the movement, but also to motherhood. Bag, a Chicana from east Los Angeles, used her music to traverse issues of gender, race, and class, which she would later write about in her in depth and her 2011 memoir, Violence Girl, which is a great, freaking book. All the books that you’ve written are amazing. I’m sorry, I’m fan-girl-ing, but that’s a good thing, because phew, when do you really get to fan girl in this way, right? OK.

Alice Bag

Thank you. We had our fan girl interactions yesterday, because we were both very nervous about meeting each other, so you missed it. You missed the part where we were constantly hugging each other. It’s like ahhh, I’m such a fan!

Teri Gender Bender

We’d be in the middle of a conversation, and it’d be like no, no, you know what? Come on, girl. Get up here. [Alice and Teri hug]

So, Alicia, asi te llamas de verdad, Alicia, and basically, because my real name is Teresa, and so throughout the times when you’re growing up in east Los Angeles, at what point did you realize, “OK, I have to convert my name Alicia to Alice.” Was it a cultural thing? How did it come about?

Alice Bag

Well, it was the constant mispronunciation of my name. It just bugged me when they called me Alisha, and I knew that’s not my name. My name is Alicia, and then I finally had a teacher who just completely changed it to Alice, and she said, “That’s the American version of your name,” and I’m like, “OK, I actually...” Like, Alice is okay, because I’ve read Alice in Wonderland, and all these other... I had other connections to it, but Alicia just sounded so foreign that I didn’t want people to... And I still get that, you know?

Teri Gender Bender

Really?

Alice Bag

I still get that, because it’s spelled the same way, and a lot of people pronounce their name that way, so ... And you probably have the same…

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, yeah. They say, “Oh Teresa sounds like a wet dog’s name.”

Alice Bag

Like a wet dog?

Teri Gender Bender

Uh huh. Like a wet dog. Kids are very poetic, I guess. I think he was probably reading a lot of Bukowski at the time, that five-year-old boy. But yeah, I can completely relate to that. You feel disconnected from that name, but eventually, you have to make it your own, being that you’re forming part of a different culture, and Teri came about as well, so that’s why I guess Teri, Alice, but they’re still names that you find a way to relate to, right, in a way, throughout the time?

Alice Bag

Yeah. I feel like there is a part of me that’s Alice Bag, and I also feel I can also step into a different scenario like with my family, if they call me Alicia, it’s cool, because that’s what I grew up hearing.

Teri Gender Bender

And it’s part of your roots.

Alice Bag

Yeah, it’s part of my roots, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Exactly, and I know, you’ve probably been asked this lots of times, but do you feel like sometimes, you’re divided into three people? Alicia Armandati, Alicia Velasquez, and Alice Bag, or do you see them all the same person?

Alice Bag

No, and I actually have... I use to be a teacher, so sometimes I bump into students and they’re like, Ms. Armandati, Ms. Velasquez, or just Miss!

Teri Gender Bender

So, finally, when you were in east Los Angeles, what was the overall feeling back then, in the day when you were growing up? Because it’s a little different than it is now. Or is it a big difference?

Alice Bag

You mean, in school or in my neighborhood?

Teri Gender Bender

In school, in your neighborhood. Let’s start with your neighborhood. Let’s start with the essence of where you grew up.

Alice Bag

Yeah, I grew up in east LA, in a neighborhood that was mostly Mexican-American and Mexican immigrants, so I really, as I was growing up, I really didn’t know that there was another world out there. My whole world was people who spoke Spanglish, and at home, we spoke only Spanish, and we watched only Spanish language movies as a family, and Spanish language tele novellas were like a ritual at night, but every now and then, when I would get home from school, I’d watch something goofy like Gilligan’s Island, or something like that, and that shaped my understanding of what the outside world was like.

But I feel like I had a very insulated experience, because everybody around me, except for the people who were like the authority figures, you know, my teachers didn’t live in east LA. My teachers came in from other suburbs, and most of them didn’t speak any Spanish at all, and my doctor didn’t speak Spanish. The people that were in positions of authority were either white or non-Spanish speaking other ethnicities, but not ever people that were like me.

Teri Gender Bender

You picked that up immediately as a little child.

Alice Bag

That I did notice, yes. That I did notice.

Teri Gender Bender

And did this curiosity that you picked up on, did it inspire some type of anger or even more curiosity as to why, or all types of emotions? What did you feel?

Alice Bag

I think what I felt was like, oh, maybe that’s not open to us. Like, maybe those people are smarter. Yeah, I think I really that maybe that that was not a possibility for me, or maybe people were teachers because they were... I don’t know. It almost felt like they were being charitable by coming to my neck of the woods, which was not as fancy as where they had grown up, and I felt like, “Oh, they’re being so nice, coming and doing this nice stuff for us.”

Yeah, I feel like I really started to think that I wasn’t... That I didn’t have power. At that point in my life, I really felt like I didn’t have power. It would take a little while for me to discover...

Teri Gender Bender

And the music helped you discover that power?

Alice Bag

Yeah, well music was part of it, but music happened... Well, music happened in elementary school, so there was a part of me that felt accepted by my friends and even though they were not really friends, but my classmates, right? Because I had a mentor who was my music teacher, who actually got me… The first job I ever had was singing for bilingual cartoons, but I think the first moment that I realized that as a Latina or a Chicana or brown person, because I don’t even think I knew what a Chicana was at that point, was that when I was 11 years old, I got to go to the Chicano Moratorium, and it was the first time that I realized, “Oh, you know what, we’re not being treated fairly, and there’s a group of us, and we’re all going to get together and do something about it,” so that was the awakening of feeling like, “I really do have power, I just haven’t figured out how to tap into it.”

Teri Gender Bender

Ah, amen. A-women. And so, when you finally figured out that there’s an antenna, un antenita que puedo utilizer para, to express myself, did you know right away this is what I wanna do with my life? Maybe not in a tangible form, but you knew that somehow this little antenna that you had, that you finally figured that through the inspiration, that, “Wow, OK. This is something that is going to get me through many obstacles.” Did you have any sense, whatsoever?

Alice Bag

There were all kinds of clues, but they had to come together. Like if I go back to my childhood, I had a very supportive father who told me, “You can be anything.” But it was kind of like a fantasy, thinking that I could be anything. He would tell me, “You can be President of the United States.” There was a part of me that believed it, there was also a part of me that didn’t see it, you know? That’s like, “There’s nobody up there that looks like me.” So it was hard. It was like trying to understand how it was possible, when when you looked outside, it wasn’t there. And that’s still something that happens, that’s still like, I still look and go like, “Where’s our representation?” I know that we should have it, I know that we’re powerful enough to get it, but it’s not there yet.

Teri Gender Bender

How much of a progress do you think is left to be done for women in music? And not just women, but the minorities.

Alice Bag

I think until we stop noticing it, until we see it so much... I think when I was involved in the punk scene, a lot of people ask me about that time, how many women, and how many people of color, and how many gay people were involved in it. It’s always like, “Oh wow, you know what? I didn’t even notice because it was so integrated. Everybody was working together, that you didn’t even stop to think about it. You didn’t have to make a statement because you were living that, kind of, everybody working together.” So when we get to that point where we don’t see... When we don’t have to notice, “Hey, there’s women in that band,” or “Look, that’s a really good female drummer.” It’s like, “Why do you have to point that out?” Like, “Oh, look, that’s a really great drummer, and she has two eyes.” Or, “He has two eyes.” It shouldn’t be an issue.

Teri Gender Bender

Honestly, does it tire you personally when in interviews people ask you, “Being a woman, how’d it feel like?” Does that irritate you, or do you feel proud to be able to express that, or does it depend?

Alice Bag

I’m always happy to talk to people, and I always feel like it’s a privilege to be in a position where somebody cares what you have to say.

Teri Gender Bender

That’s beautiful.

Alice Bag

Thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

Because I’ve noticed a lot of people sometimes even walk off interviews when they’re asked, “How is it to be a woman in the band,” and I guess it’s to a point that so many of us have had it. “You know what? Just work on your questions first,” or something, and then they walk off.

Alice Bag

Oh, yeah, I do get fed up with that, too. I get fed up when people invite me to be part of something and they’re like, “We’re almost done with our documentary, but we don’t have enough women, so we want you to come in for half an hour. We’re gonna tell you exactly which questions we want you to answer.” So it’s not like you’re telling your story. You’re supporting their story, and they already are setting you up with the answers, so that you could just say what they want. They might as well give you a script, you know? That’s frustrating to me. I hate the idea that I’m anybody’s token, ever.

Teri Gender Bender

[inaudible] they wanna use you for something, fill in the story.

Alice Bag

Yeah. The story they’re... Yeah, so that they can say like, “Oh yeah, we were inclusive. We asked everybody.”

Teri Gender Bender

I remember reading from your memoir that your earliest, happiest childhood memory when you were going down the sled. It moved me, because in a way the kids were there playing as well, even though you didn’t really feel a connection with them, you still involved yourself socially by joining them going down the sled on the snow, in the snow sled. What other memories of that style do you have, when you were little?

Alice Bag

It was a dirt sled. We were going down this dirt hill.

Teri Gender Bender

Dirt.

Alice Bag

Yeah. You know, I felt really disconnected from other people when I was little. I think it was a kind of trauma, because I grew up in an abusive household. I feel a lot of the time that I withdrew. When I was in school, I really had a hard time making friends. That was the first time that I remember other kids playing with me, and including me. It was a really good memory, because I felt part of something.

Teri Gender Bender

They were including you. When you’re included, you include them, too. It’s a two-way street, it encourages both ends to open. Now we’re going to the different extreme, because you are known to be a daughter of duality, where in person you’re extremely shy, even I could dare to say shy, but very open. But on stage is also another extreme, where the animal in you comes out. What-

Alice Bag

You would know, right? [laughs]

Teri Gender Bender

Oh, my. What sad memories inspired part of that fire in you? Because we talked about the happy, but now something sad that…

Alice Bag

Yeah, I think it’s the growing up in an abusive household where I felt like I didn’t have a voice. I felt like when I tried to defend my mother, I was swatted away. I feel like when I got on stage, all that feeling of not being able to express myself came out, and it came out in a rage. I was only partially aware of it. A lot of times I’d be on stage and I really was Alice Bag, some other entity, not really conscious of my movements, or my singing, or my performance. It wasn’t like a performance, it was just like a state of being. Do you have that too, where you feel like you go into…

Teri Gender Bender

You’re living it, right?

Alice Bag

You’re living it, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, exactly. It’s not performing, because you haven’t pre-planned it. It’s not like you’re backstage, “What move am I gonna do? Ok, on this... Then this minute, I’m gonna do this.” None of that happens, it comes to you. Your music and your body collide.

Alice Bag

Yes. And all your emotions and everything just spill out. I get that from you, too. When you’re onstage, it’s just raw energy, and you’re not rehearsed, it’s not acting. You’re living it. That’s the connection. That’s the connection you get from a live audience, too, it’s like they’re with you, and they’re stuck.

Teri Gender Bender

Thank you so much, Alice. You mentioned just a little bit now about the sad memories about living in an abusive household, and I completely relate to you, two parallel lives that have that in common. What’s your advice? How do you get through it when you’re a kid and you feel so useless, and you don’t know how to ask for help, much less understand it yourself. How do you get through something like that?

Alice Bag

I think it’s hard when you’re a kid, because you don’t know that. I remember my mother, who was the victim of the abuse, saying, “Don’t say anything, because we don’t want your father to be taken off to jail, because he has to go to work, and we have to pay the rent.” It affected us in so many ways, that she actually rationalized it so that he wasn’t taken away. It was weird, because it was this weird situation where I felt complicit, you know?

Teri Gender Bender

But now, you know that’s not the case.

Alice Bag

No, now I know that’s not the case. I think now I also understand abuse is something that’s not just between two people, but it affects whole families. I think it’s something that when you are dealing with it, if you are someone who knows someone who’s in that situation, you have to take into consideration everyone that’s living in that household, because they’re all being affected. I specifically remember my mother telling me, “I don’t wanna get a divorce from your father, because you need a father.” So I really felt guilty about that, because I felt like she’s staying in this abusive relationship for me, and I never wanted that.

Teri Gender Bender

You didn’t know how to process that disappointment.

Alice Bag

Yeah. No, I know. I felt guilty, you know?

Teri Gender Bender

Maybe in her mind, because she was from a different generation, it was like, “No, but this is good.”

Alice Bag

Of course, yes. She was doing it for me. She genuinely believed that. She also genuinely believed that she couldn’t just leave. She believed divorce was a bad thing. She couldn’t just leave and get into a different situation. She had to like, figure out how to make that situation work.

Teri Gender Bender

From a Catholic family, right?

Alice Bag

Yes. Uh huh.

Teri Gender Bender

And that’s another double texture and weight on top of it, right? Because you don’t want to feel guilty also for that. The divorce, the big D, that’s prohibited, so I completely understand.

Alice Bag

So we have to... you know, I think as a society, we have to find a way to not make people who are in these situations feel ashamed for being trapped in it, because I feel like there was a certain amount of shame, you know? Like, oh, I did something to make myself get beaten up, and now I haven’t filed charges, and you feel like there’s victim shame, which is horrible, because what you want to do and say, “No, let’s talk about it. Let’s figure out how we can get out of this situation, how we can change the situation, how the whole family can get some kind of help.”

Teri Gender Bender

And once you get the help, the important thing is that, to detach yourself from the shame, you’d say, right? Detach yourself from that emotion, and acknowledge that it’s a complete different emotion that you were not born with, and it’s a long process of course, and the working, but awareness is the first step, you would say?

Alice Bag

Yeah. I think, you know, for me, it took years and years of not even knowing what the hell was going on with me. What am I angry about? I would go on stage, and people would say, like, “You were looking at me, and I thought you wanted to kill me, you were so mad at me,” and I’m like, “I wasn’t mad at you. I wasn’t even there.” I was into the song, I was into the performance, I was in the moment, and I wasn’t thinking about anything, but it was coming out. It comes out of your pores, and when I started writing, that’s when I first realized oh, all this stuff is right there. All I had to do was just... You know, you scratch just a little bit and it’s right there under the surface, and it all came just flowing. Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And it’s because you’re reliving it. Especially if you’re writing. You’re going into detail, and then you have to edit it later to re-read it again, so you’re constantly reliving it, but did it help you find closure?

Alice Bag

I think it helped me understand myself. And yeah, I guess some kind of closure. And I do think that, like you said, I actually did relive it, because when I was a little kid, I think some of kind of defense mechanism popped in and I didn’t fully live it. I feel like I almost like went into some other place, because I didn’t remember this stuff for years and years and years, and then it came. When it came back, it was like, you know... It was visceral. I remember feeling nauseous, I remember I couldn’t stop crying, and it was very, very physical memory of all those things.

Teri Gender Bender

And when this happened, the physical part of it. Afterwards, did you feel a sense of calm, after the waves passed through?

Alice Bag

It took a little while, and I know that we talked a little bit about how... Both my parents have passed away, but when my mother was still alive, I did an interview that aired on television where I talked about my father’s abuse, and one of my nieces marched over to my mother’s house and said, “Why is Alicia badmouthing my grandfather?” And my mother said, “Because it’s true. This is what happened.” And my niece is like, “That is not the grandfather that I know. He’s not like that.” No, he’s not like that anymore. He’s a completely different man. He’s changed, you know? But I’m so glad that I had that moment where my mother said, “Yes, this happened,” because otherwise, they’re going to think Alicia’s just making all this stuff up. And I think that happens to other people sometimes. They tell their story, and unless you had a witness there, somebody thinks, “Oh no, they just want attention. They just like…”

Teri Gender Bender

Or some part of doubt or some kind of doubt. Yeah, and that’s the great thing that you had your mother’s support. Even if it is something again, going to back to, especially in Latino culture and Catholicism, shame is a big factor of what we have on our shoulders, so that’s amazing that your mother was able to say, “No, no, no, no, you know what? She’s not lying. She’s telling the truth, and I’m going to stand next to her.” Es mi hija y dice la verdad. And now, this is what I want to ask you. What do you do when the people in your own family, like your niece... I’m guessing that’s part of the process. There’s healing, now. There’s communication, but what if that person refused to listen to you? And doesn’t want to support you? Do you still speak about it either way, or do you wait until you get your mother’s or your father’s or you grandmother’s blessing to talk about the abuse that you endured?

Alice Bag

I just do what’s right for me, you know, so if I have something I need to speak about, I speak about it, and if somebody supports me, that’s wonderful. I try and surround myself with people who trust me and believe me, and there’s always going to be people who doubt and question what I say, and that’s their choice, but it’s not going to affect me. [applause] Thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

So, tell us about Punkchera music.

Alice Bag

Punkchera! Punkchera was something that I started doing with my friend Lisa Flores. We were in a band together... [applause] Thank you. We were in a band together called Stay At Home Bomb. Is Eva Gardner here? There she is! Eva was in that band, too. And, after we got done doing Stay at Home Bomb, we started playing a little bit of acoustic music, and we’re like, “You know what? I like these rancheras, but I’m so into punk that I want to...” And also, I think part of it was the way I strummed my guitar, it didn’t feel like a ranchera song. No matter what I try to play, it always has that punk feel just because my guitar playing tends to lean that way, so they turned into Punkchera…

Teri Gender Bender

It suits your style.

Alice Bag

And also my singing is that way. You know, my singing is kind of, “rahh!”

Teri Gender Bender

It’s also very dynamic, I think, because you can go from “ahh” to very complex melodies, and what inspired you to go towards also the catchy, accessible yet complex melodies? Was that from the ranchera music, or was it from other…

Alice Bag

The what kind of melody?

Teri Gender Bender

Because you had like some really cool... Because you can do the versatile. You’re a versatile vocalist.

Alice Bag

Oh, thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

So, what inspired you to be that... David Bowie’s one of them, I read…

Alice Bag

When I was growing up, I was a big fan of Rafael. I don’t know if any of you... There’s some people who have heard Raphael! Oh my god, he’s such a great singer, and he was so emotive, and he was so passionate, and I kind of see ties with him and maybe Juan Gabriel, you know, there’s like that sort of very... Like you really feel the music, so that was a big influence on me. I also was a big Joselito fan, which was... Do you know who Joselito is? He was a teen Spanish singing movie star, who I had a crush on. Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Would you like some water?

Alice Bag

Yes! Why thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, here. I realize that hydration is very important.

Alice Bag

Thank you so much.

Teri Gender Bender

You’re welcome.

Alice Bag

That’s OK, wait, are we going to... Cheers.

Teri Gender Bender

Cheers.

Alice Bag

Thank you. Y’all, have a drink. Stay hydrated. Can they have water? Do you guys have water? Oh, I’m sorry. I’ll have a drink for you.

Teri Gender Bender

And so, you were talking a little bit earlier about the process of writing Violence Girl. What was the one moment that you decided, “I want to write a book.” Before the whole entire process. What was the... What inspired that?

Alice Bag

You know, it was a drunk night. I was talking to some friends of mine who were working on a play called the Barber of East LA. They had an acting group called Butchlalis de Panochtitlan, which is a great name, and they asked me to tell them stories about growing up in east LA in the ’60s and ’70s, and they were buying me drinks, so I was telling them stories, and they’re like, “These are great stories. You should write a book.” And I went home that night and I told my husband, who’s sitting over there, and he said, “I always tell you you should write a book. I’ve been telling you for years and you never listen to me, because you only listen to your girlfriends.” And then, I didn’t think anything of it, the conversation. Then, in the morning, he left the laptop on our kitchen table, and it was open, and he’d set up a blog for me that was called The True Life Adventures of Violence Girl. It’s like, “OK, this is a message from him. You can do this.” If I had thought of it as like, writing a book, I don’t think I would have done it but, because I had been blogging, and I only had to blog one page, I only had to write one page a day, it was like, “Oh, yeah, I can write one page a day.”

Teri Gender Bender

That’s how it started, too.

Alice Bag

That’s how it started, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah. That’s a good exercise. Do it constantly. Be putting your mind to work every day. Even if it’s just one paragraph, that’s something.

Alice Bag

Yeah. Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Wow. Of course, eventually, it starts adding up.

Alice Bag

Eventually, you have a book, yeah. Anybody that’s thinking of writing out there, just write a little bit every day. That’s how all... I mean, every book starts with the first paragraph, right? Get started. Get started! For any writers out there, I did have a special thing that I did. I would start writing in the morning, and then, I would not allow myself to eat lunch until I had enough, like, a whole page, to post.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah.

Alice Bag

I get really hungry, so ...

Teri Gender Bender

It’s good, because it’s some type of discipline that you’re putting on yourself.

Alice Bag

Yeah, it’s like finish, finish.

Teri Gender Bender

You feel that pride right when you do it?

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Along with the hunger.

Alice Bag

The satisfaction at the end. You’re satisfied in two ways.

Teri Gender Bender

You were saying that your husband is very supportive.

Alice Bag

Yes.

Teri Gender Bender

That’s amazing. Do you think it’s very common nowadays, compared to how it was like in the ’70s that men or women would support their spouses or their partners?

Alice Bag

I think women traditionally supported their husbands, but I think now it’s becoming more... I think we’re demanding it too. It’s like, “If you want to go out with me, you better give me something back because I’m not here just to service you.” [applause]

Teri Gender Bender

Very well said. That’s true, we’ve got to respect each other in every way possible. That got me teary eyed. Nicaragua. Tell me about your trip because you have a relationship with this country that you spent some time there.

Alice Bag

After I was involved in the punk scene for a while, I became politicized through that. I was often asked to play benefits. At that time it was the ’80s and Ronald Reagan had just come into power. There was all this chaos going on in Central America. I had just gone back to school and I had started teaching. I was working with kids that were largely from Mexico but also Central America and I realized, “You know what, there’s a lot going on down there that I don’t know about and I know that I’m not getting the whole story.” At the same time I was teaching with an emergency credential, which means that I wasn’t fully credentialed.

I was still going to school and one of my professors assigned the book Pedagogy of the Oppressed, which talks about a kind of education where you are basically indoctrinating kids with the values of the dominant class. You’re not really teaching kids to think, you’re not teaching them critical thinking skills, you’re not teaching them to have dialogue and respect other cultures and respect other points of views. You’re just telling them memorize these facts, these are our founding fathers, these are the important things that you need to memorize and bubble in later. That’s still how we teach, by the way.

Paulo Freire says those are structures that are intentionally put in to support the status quo. That’s no accident. We need to demand an education that teaches kids to think, and adults, so that we can question our leaders, so that we can call them to the mat when they’re not doing what we want them to do, and feel like we’re being patriotic when we do that. We’re being patriotic when we question, not when we follow and memorize. [applause] Thank you for your snaps.

Teri Gender Bender

Actually, can we put the picture on of Alicia and Nicaragua, por favor? I want to ask you about this picture. Who is who in this picture? This is amazing. Who did this?

Alice Bag

Actually, these three people that are holding the sign, were people that were from the Escuela Nica. We were volunteers, we were all Americans, and that’s me on the end with the fashionable sunglasses. This is a march that we were doing against, there were like $100 million that were being put aside for the Contras to fight the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. There were marches all over Nicaragua because the Sandinistas, the first thing they did when they got into Nicaragua was to have a huge literacy campaign, so the nation was largely illiterate and they organized volunteers to go out into the fields and teach the campesinos to read. That was the reason that I had gone to Nicaragua because I was a teacher and I was learning about literacy. I wanted to see how this literacy campaign, how it worked, because it was modeled after the... It was actually Paulo Freire had been consulted to work on this literacy campaign so I wanted to go and experience it.

It was life changing for me. I went down there thinking, “I’m going to give these people my time, my expertise.” I felt like I was being the person that was doing something for someone else, when in fact, I went down there and I had my eyes opened and I realized I learned a lot of things about myself. It was a humbling experience. It was an experience of realizing I’d been indoctrinated. I need to open up my mind and I need to see what’s really happening in my own country and not come down here and think like I’m doing something good for someone else. I need to do something good in my own country because we’re messed up. We’re really messed up right now guys.

Teri Gender Bender

It’s mind blowing these times we’re living in. You know me, I like to be positive. Do you think that the positive from these crazy times that we’re living in now is inspiring some type of union amongst people that believe in some sort of magic?

Alice Bag

Yeah, I think so. I think people are much more aware. I think we’re constantly trying to... I know I have been more involved in marches and petitions and trying to make sure that we don’t get blown up or ruin our environment permanently or just fighting back. If all we do is fight back and minimize the damage, that’s a start. I would love to just do everything we can to... I have an image in my mind. I was in east LA yesterday and I was driving down Wabash and I saw a mural with a masked wrestler and he’s got Donald Trump down on the mat and he’s got him in a headlock. I just thought, “That’s us. That’s us. If we work together we can get that guy and make him bend to our will or get him out completely.” I really believe that. I believe in the power of the people and I believe in us.

Teri Gender Bender

If you don’t start believing, then who else is going to start believing. It starts with yourself. It could be anything from a little grain of seed of writing in your notebook or even cooking one of your favorite dishes right? Just staying active right?

Alice Bag

That’s the thing is you don’t have to be one certain type of activist. You don’t have to be an artist that writes political songs. You don’t have to be a writer that’s writing an article. You don’t have to be the person that’s marching out at the protests. You don’t have to do all those things. You can do one or two now and then, but the important thing that you can do every day is talk to the people around you. Those are people that you actually have power with. Your coworkers, your family, just talk to them and work the conversation to, “Did you vote that way? Why did you vote that way? What is happening? Do you think this person is doing what you thought they were going to do?” Open the door. I feel like it’s not enough to go on Facebook and say, “This guy is an idiot, why did you vote for them?” And then you can’t troll the people whose minds you want to change, because you’re not going to change them that way. You need to have dialogue. That is something that I learned from Paulo Freire. If you want to change minds, you need to go open minded, and you need to have dialogue, and it has to be a two-way street.

I lived in Arizona for a few years, and during the time that I was in Arizona, I had friends who were politically conservative who I had to open conversations with and it was difficult, but something that I reminded myself was, it’s like, when we’re not having a political conversation, these people are really nice. They’ve done great things for me and my family, and I need to talk to them as human beings who have a different point of view, so that’s how you can be a different kind of activist without being public about it.

Teri Gender Bender

Not everything is so black and white, right? Just because someone has a certain belief of something means that, “Oh, well, I’ll never be able to be their friend now.” No, it’s good to start dialogue, like you were saying, and try to understand at least the other perspective, because if they see that you are trying to understand their perspective, they’ll try to understand yours, right? And it’s healthy that way. Maybe you might not end up ever understanding, but at least there’s some type of movement and struggle to get there.

Alice Bag

Absolutely, yeah. You don’t ever want to be in a position where, oh yeah, we’re going to like... We’re going to get power, and then we’re going to subjugate you, you know? Because you don’t think like us. We don’t want to do that. We don’t want to put other people down and force them to think what we think, because then we’re just as bad.

Teri Gender Bender

Exactly.

Alice Bag

Right? So, we want an open dialogue and listen to different points of view, and do it the hard way. Change minds. Take your time.

Teri Gender Bender

Exactly. It’s all time, right? It’s a long process. I wonder if it’s okay by you if I put on a video, speaking of marches, okay? “White Justice,” it’s a very inspiring video that I saw that I don’t want to give away too much, but you guys will see, and thank you.

(music: Alice Bag – “White Justice (Live at the International Women’s March)”)

Alice Bag

Thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

Thanks, so when you did that to the police, when you went up to them and started singing in their face and looking right into their eyes, were they moved by it? Were they mad by it? What was their reaction?

Alice Bag

They were just staring at me. “Who’s that crazy lady and why is she yelling at us?” But I think the thing that really moved me was that we were in front of the detention center, and they were clicking against the... I guess they click coins or something against the windows, and you can hear them, so they were listening to us, so at the end, you heard a bunch of clicking, you know? Like that, it was moving, because I felt like we’re connecting with them. They know they’re supported. They know we’re here, so that was powerful.

Teri Gender Bender

And what was being in the march like?

Alice Bag

I always am energized by being... I’m like the person that loses her voice by the end of the march. I used to be a cheerleader, so I’m like, “Come on, let’s go!” For a very short time.

Teri Gender Bender

Because I know you encourage dialogue, and my question that I couldn’t help ask, were there any cons in the march?

Alice Bag

Were there any what?

Teri Gender Bender

Cons being a part of the march.

Alice Bag

Of being in the march?

Teri Gender Bender

Uh huh.

Alice Bag

I had to go to the bathroom at some point, that was a con. That’s it. Everything else is a pro. It’s really great. I went to the Women’s March is Washington as well, and that was an amazing feeling. I felt like I almost couldn’t move it was so crowded. It was almost scary how crowded it was, but it was so powerful, and again, the bathrooms were an issue, because there was like many more people than they anticipated, and I think it was... Yeah, it was amazing. So empowering that I really feel that women are just coming into their own. We’re just getting a feel of what it’s like to organize and have power. That was a taste of it, and I think we’re going to feel a lot more of it, and I just saw Lisa Flores over there, I didn’t know you were here, because we talked about her earlier, and I didn’t acknowledge you, and I was talking about you, and I was looking at you. I’m sorry. I apologize.

Teri Gender Bender

My mother would say, apologies... I told you this yesterday, but you told me your thoughts on this saying, that apologies are only for killers and rapists.

Alice Bag

Oh wow. Yeah. I don’t know. Unless they’re dead.

Teri Gender Bender

And so, what’s the big difference between playing live and being in the studio, for you?

Alice Bag

Well, I love both things. I’m in the studio right now. I’m recording with my producer, Lisa Flores, yeah. And Eva Gardner up there [points] played on a few songs, too. I feel very, very fortunate to have had her, and I don’t know if my friend Sharif is here, but he played guitar... I don’t know, he said he was coming. I don’t know. He lied to me. But anyway, I write songs and then what I like to do is try and match up the songs to each musician’s style. Like, oh, I think this suits them, or I think they’d do a great job on this song.

So, I love being in the studio, because I feel like I have complete control or almost complete control. Like, I have a lot more control over what the music sounds like, and I love being able to do that, because when I’m on stage, I’m totally out of control. When I’m on stage, it’s all about connecting with the audience, and it’s all about delivering the message and feeling like they’re getting it.

Like you. You’re the same way, I feel like. You’re grabbing them and you’re like, you’re coming with me, right?

Teri Gender Bender

Yes, but it’s also good to have the band back you up and know that they can trust them to keep…

Alice Bag

Yeah, you can trust them. They’re like, they’ve got you.

Teri Gender Bender

Ali, she’s right there, the drummer of Butcherettes. She backs me up.

Alice Bag

Yeah. You have to have a band you can trust, and they got you. If you go off... My poor band. How many times have I just gone on too long? Like, OK, I’m going to go out in the audience and I’m going to sing with you, and I’m going to dance over there, and then come back, and they’re like, “Where did she go? How long do we have to play this?” It’s like... But yeah, it’s good to have a band you can trust.

So, yeah. I need both things. I need the connection with the audience, because that really fuels... It fills my tank. I feel like that’s the pay off, but also as a song writer, I like to hear my songs the way I imagine them, so being able to do that, make them sound pretty on the record and then mess them up live, it’s a treat. It’s the best of both worlds. You want to give me a bruise like yours?

Teri Gender Bender

We have to match.

Alice Bag

Isn’t that a pretty bruise?

Teri Gender Bender

Can you guys see if from all the say in the back? Damn. It doesn’t hurt anymore. It doesn’t hurt. Oh, I was playing a show, and I was standing up like this, and then I just went like boom, but fast. Right now, I cheated.

Alice Bag

It was excitement, right?

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, excitement. Not anger, because sometimes you see one person, it just takes one person on stage to be like this, and it can ruin your whole night. What do you think of, when you see that one guy, like, because I... Or person. I gave it away.

Alice Bag

Yeah, I’ve had that actually. I wrote about it in my book, where I actually swatted at him, and got his glasses and crunched them up, and stepped on them. I’m not nice. Sometimes people think I’m a nice person. They’re like, “Oh, Alice Bag, she’s you know, an older woman, she’s wise,” and I’m like, “Pfft.” I’m such... Yeah, I don’t know.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, you’re humble.

Alice Bag

But I’ll tell the truth. I’ll tell you what I’m thinking, and you don’t ever have to wonder if I’m speaking my mind, because I am.

Teri Gender Bender

No time for BS, right?

Alice Bag

No time for BS.

Teri Gender Bender

Life is too short. Life is way too short, and that’s why you don’t think twice about confronting someone if they’re... Because why go to a show and then make me the party pooper? Why spend that negative energy, right? I can never understand. Would you ever do that? Go to a show and just...

Alice Bag

Ahhhhh, I don’t know.

Teri Gender Bender

Because you try to understand, you try to understand. Maybe he had a bad day, or something?

Alice Bag

I don’t know, I don’t know. I remember having a show once, where the person was so excited that they pulled down their pants and pulled out their equipment. You told me about this, Frank. It was at the Starwood, and I was playing a punk concert, and my friends pushed this guy out, because he was starting to masturbate in front of the stage. Yeah. But, early punks had a powerful alliance of women with stiletto heels who pogo-ed furiously like goddesses over anyone that would get in our way.

Teri Gender Bender

Because if you’re silent about it, then it would keep happening.

Alice Bag

Yeah, I didn’t even know about it until afterwards. They took care of it. They took care of business.

Teri Gender Bender

And speaking of the punk shows, I’m going to put a video from the Troubadour, 1978, February 5th…

Alice Bag

Can I just say something before we put this on? I don’t know if everybody knows that the reason we wore bags on our heads when we came out was because my first band was called the Bags, and we wore bags on our heads, so that was our little tribute to that. So, now you’re going to see the Bags at the Troubadour, without the bags on our heads.

(video: The Bags live at the Troubadour February 1978 / applause)

Oh my god. Thank you. That is difficult for me to watch.

Teri Gender Bender

And I want to ask you why?

Alice Bag

I don’t know. I just don’t like seeing myself. I actually like myself better older and more... I feel like I’m more confident and more powerful and more in control. And I feel like when I was younger, I was just kind of like... Exactly like you see me, like kind of like, ahhhh, you know? And not fully aware of my surroundings. I think that particular night was a crazy night where we actually shut down the Troubadour. We didn’t shut it down, they shut us down. They locked us in, and there was a big fight. You know this story?

Teri Gender Bender

No, please tell us. Tell us, please.

Alice Bag

The story is that... It starts a few days before at this deli, Counter’s Deli, and I was sitting with some friends of mine. We were waiting to get a table, and my friend knew Tom Waits, and I didn’t know who he was or that he was a celebrity or anything, so it was just like, my friend is talking to this dorky guy, and she introduced me, and I said, “Hey, you know what, we’re playing a show at the Troubadour,” and then I didn’t think anything else of it, and then she told me and my boyfriend that he thought, “He loved you Alice, you were great, you know, but he didn’t like Nicky. He said Nicky was a dip shit.” And, Nicky was really pissed off. Nikki was my boyfriend, and he’s also the guy that you see playing drums, so Nicky was pissed off for a day, and I didn’t think anything of it.

But then, the day came when we were going to play the Troubadour and Tom Waits showed up, and he’s sitting there. And these are the days when you have your concert, and you had long tables, where people had to buy usually a two-drink minimum and you sit at the front of the stage and watch your band and a person would come and serve you your drinks, and Patricia and I were like looking and saying, “Oh my god, he’s here. What are we going to do?” And Nicky’s like, “I’m going to call him out as soon as I get up there.” He’s like, “Don’t start. I’m going to say something.”

So, at the beginning of this film, actually. It’s not a documentary, some person was in the audience filming, and you see Nicky come up and he gets the microphone and he says, like, “Tom Waits called me a dip shit behind my back, and I think he’s a bloody cunt,” and then we go into our set, and the punks who were not going to pay two dollars to sit at the front of the stage start throwing the tables and chairs in a heap in the back of the... You saw there’s no tables and chairs in the front, because I jumped off and started dancing, so they had thrown all the tables and chairs to the back, and except for one table at the front of the stage where Tom Waits and his posse were sitting down, like, “We’re going to hold our ground,” and they did. They stayed there the whole night just kind of glaring at us.

And then when the show was over, I was actually kind of nervous, because I thought, “Oh my god are they going to charge us for things that got broken,” or what’s going to happen? They emptied the house, but they locked us in. They said, you guys cannot leave yet. So, we were really nervous, but all they wanted was to form a circle around Tom Waits and Nicky Beat, so that they could have a fight. So, yeah, all that for…

And you, know Patricia and I are like, “Oh my god, what’s going to happen?” We’re trying to get out and the punks are outside. You see their hands sticking in the door and they’re trying to pull it open. It’s very dramatic, and it was a crazy night. So, anyway, punk bands didn’t play at the Troubadour for a while after that.

Teri Gender Bender

Oh my god, and so basically all that was in your mind when you were on stage, or in that moment…

Alice Bag

No, in that moment, I think I was just kind of like... I hate seeing that clip. It was just like, oh god, I look so out of it.

Teri Gender Bender

Because, basically no one at that time was doing what you were doing. Fishnets and jumping into the stage, it was unheard of. Did you feel, sometimes, looking back at that now, that hey… In a way, you were courageous, and you are.

Alice Bag

I think there were women that were doing that. I think of like the Runaways, I think Cherie Currie wore like corsets and stuff like that, and I think that was probably... Like, I came from a background where groupies were like... They were glamorized. So, I think I had a little bit of that. Oh, I’m going to be sexy on stage, and then you know, I don’t know. I never really achieved that... I never really achieved what I went out to achieve. I think when I first wanted to be a singer, I thought, I’m going to go on stage and I’m going to sing pretty, and I’m going to be glamorous, and of course, I’d go on stage, I go “Gah”, and I’d be all sweaty and paper bags were stuck on my face, and my fishnets were tearing, I’d fall on the ground, and then my stockings would be torn, and there’d be blood coming down, so it’s like... So, I never…

Teri Gender Bender

The duality of it, though, right?

Alice Bag

I know.

Teri Gender Bender

Powerful. And so, when you would sometimes get hurt on stage, afterwards, would you regret it? Be like, oh, why am I always hurting myself on accident? What’s going on? Or, would you just, you know, be proud of it.

Alice Bag

No, I never even noticed it. I don’t know if you have that experience where you don’t even know you got hurt, because you’re full of adrenaline, right?

Teri Gender Bender

Sometimes, I would get hurt, but at the time, I had some band mates that would be like, “You know what? You should do that some more. You know what, hit yourself harder,” because they thought I was doing it on purpose or something, and I was like, “That’s punk rock! Yeah, yeah, yeah.” The more blood the better, and in the moment, I was like, “Oh, OK,” but then I realized, I hope they really care about me, right? So yeah, there’s that side to it, too.

Alice Bag

What if I do it to you? That’s good showmanship too, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And so basically, your sister, Yolanda, is a big inspiration. When you were little, you looked up to her, because she also knew a lot about music and she passed away, and if she were here now, do you think a lot about, oh, I want to tell her this, I want to...

Alice Bag

She and I had a very traditional sort of big sister, little sister, and I just kind of looked up to her, and I think I always wanted her to be proud of me, but I don’t know that she would even understand what I do or why I do it, but I still... I was in a band when she was still alive, and she never really got into it. It was not her thing, but that’s okay. It doesn’t matter, because I still loved her and I still feel like we were still connected.

Teri Gender Bender

And supportive of each other.

Alice Bag

Yeah, totally supportive of each other.

Teri Gender Bender

Because you don’t always have to understand, as long as you’re there for each other.

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Definitely. And sorry for mentioning that heavy theme about passing away, but I think it’s something... Do you agree that it’s something that we should talk about more as a community? Death?

Alice Bag

Yeah, I think I do. I think it’s a, like, my sister’s death... My parents, you kind of expect that your parents are gonna die. But my sister died very young. So it was really hard on me, because she had cancer. And I don’t think it was three months from the time I found out she was sick, to when she passed away. So it was hard, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And your mother, she worked for an organization, for charity for cancer.

Alice Bag

Yeah, my...

Teri Gender Bender

This was before your sister had cancer.

Alice Bag

Yeah, my sister was actually my half-sister. And her father had cancer. And that’s why my mother always volunteered for the American Cancer Society, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And that’s, when relating to the people that would go into your house.

Alice Bag

Yeah!

Teri Gender Bender

‘Cause they weren’t used to different neighborhoods, right, or something like that?

Alice Bag

Yeah, yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And I don’t wanna, is it okay if I mention it?

Alice Bag

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

Teri Gender Bender

All right, so, because a very elegant lady went into Alice’s house, because her mother worked for a cancer organization for charity. And so, this very beautiful lady, right, Ellie...

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

She walked in. But her mother, before the lady got into the house, made sure that the house was very clean. She took out the best china, the tea cups, made everything very, very nice for this lady. And as soon as she walks in, her mom’s a little nervous, right, a little, even, excited?

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

You were even excited, right?

Alice Bag

Yes.

Teri Gender Bender

And very nervous, too. “Oh, there’s this... No one comes to our house. Whoa, there’s someone that’s coming here.” And then, all of a sudden, what happens after that?

Alice Bag

So, my mom’s trying to impress this lady. And the woman’s sitting down. And all of a sudden, I’m standing on the side, and I see a cockroach walking up the woman’s leg. And I’m going, “Ahhh!” So...

Teri Gender Bender

And what did you do? What did you do?

Alice Bag

I’m like, “Eeh, you got a cockroach comin’ up your leg!” So, the woman, she left. My mom was heartbroken.

Teri Gender Bender

See, yeah, but that’s the part I didn’t understand. Why would she leave? You’d always just have to roll with the punches.

Alice Bag

I know, right? It’s like...

Teri Gender Bender

And it’s, “Stay here,” you know?

Alice Bag

Well, that’s what we say, ‘cause... But I think, some people are, “No way.” I mean, it’s funny, because, also, when people have memories, we used to live in... There was a group of punks who lived at this place called the Canterbury. And they write so much about, “Oh, there were so many roaches!” Yeah, I grew up with more roaches than that! It’s like, “Ooh, sick!” But there, it’s perspective, right?

Teri Gender Bender

Exactly.

Alice Bag

You have to compare it to something. So, to me, it was like, not a big deal.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, it’s all about perspective.

Alice Bag

Cockroaches don’t bite.

Teri Gender Bender

Exactly. They’re actually very beautiful, right? Wouldn’t you guys say? OK, we wouldn’t go that far. We wouldn’t go that far. OK. OK, so, taking it a little bit to a lighter side, I guess this conversation may be a little bipolar. But that’s basically what it is. There’s so many dualities, going from death, to your love for Archie.

Alice Bag

Oh, my God, wow! Yep!

Teri Gender Bender

I wanted, just between us, in this room, Archie was one of my favorite comics. What made you gravitate towards Archie? That’s...

Alice Bag

I think my father was big reader. So he would read these Mexican Western novelettes. And he would buy them at a used bookstore. Every week, he would go back, and return them, and trade them in for new ones. In order to take me along, and keep me entertained, it’s like, “You can get these used comic books.” So I would get Archie, and I started getting into novellas de amor. And I did also read Memín Pinguín.

So, I don’t know, that’s gonna be controversial there. And Betty and Veronica, and Little Dot in Dotland, and Hot Stuff, and all those good comic books. Little Lotta. Richie Rich. I’m just namedropping now.

Teri Gender Bender

And so, you had a love for comics. Right now, today, what comics... Are you still into comics today, or a little less?

Alice Bag

I don’t read comics anymore. I was a big Mad magazine fan for a while, too, but I don’t really read comics that often anymore.

Teri Gender Bender

You broke up with ‘em.

Alice Bag

Nyah. No, I’d still pick ‘em up if they were around. I’d still read ‘em. I did see, I did watch the Archie series, er, the Riverdale series.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, yeah, yeah!

Alice Bag

Yeah, did you watch that, too?

Teri Gender Bender

I was obsessed with Archie. Every day after school, I’d go to the store, get my... I don’t wanna say the brand of the food... But get this delicious junk food, but not delicious now anymore, and then, the comic, Archie. So I was very, yeah, it felt like a sister moment right now. So, basically, you had to face a lot of ethnocentrism. How do you deal with that, nowadays, when you have to deal with that?

Alice Bag

I just don’t deal with it. I just, like, kind of, I give back whatever I get. If someone’s cool with men, I’m good with them. I’m not a very patient woman, so...

Teri Gender Bender

Really? Whoa!

Alice Bag

Yeah. No, I’m not. Do I seem like it? No, it’s like...

Teri Gender Bender

You’re being very patient with me, maybe.

Alice Bag

No, no. I mean, you’re like, so sweet. You’re a real...

Teri Gender Bender

[inaudible].

Alice Bag

I know. And I met her, I thought, she’s gonna be, like, scary. Right?

Teri Gender Bender

Really?

Alice Bag

She’s so intense. And she is, just so nice.

Teri Gender Bender

Thank you.

Alice Bag

So you can ask me anything. I’ll answer anything you want.

Teri Gender Bender

Thank you. Thank you. So, you’re...

Alice Bag

So?

Teri Gender Bender

According to you, you’re a person of little patience.

Alice Bag

So, what sorts of things are you...

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, but how do you... I imagine you’re more patient now. How do you acquire that patience? ‘Cause, sometimes, when I get angry, without double thinking it, I hit a wall, and I end up hurting myself.

Alice Bag

Ouch!

Teri Gender Bender

How do you jump from that point to, just, not doing that?

Alice Bag

I guess it depends on what kind of anger it is. I mean, I try and... Serious stuff that I’m really, that bugs me, I write music about. Or I try and do something creative with it. Because I think, energy is just, if you can wait till you get home, you can write. Or you can paint. Or you can do something with that energy. Or you can write a letter, or do something.

But sometimes, I can’t wait till I get home. And sometimes, there’s countless stories in my family about my little outbursts. Like, the woman at Costco, who got too close to me with her shopping cart. I was like, “Really?” Every time I stopped, she would bump me, just a little bit.

Teri Gender Bender

Oh, yeah.

Alice Bag

Just a little bit, until I finally turned around, and just shoved it at her. And it’s like... So, I guess, if I had the patience, I could have waited, and gone home and written a song about the woman at Costco, but, no. Just had to deal with it then.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, man.

Alice Bag

Yeah. But, actually, my friend Frank, who is here, also, she and I have a band, where we write about stuff that bugs us. And it’s mostly political stuff.

Teri Gender Bender

And it’s a good way to vent, too, in a way.

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And you’re not paying for the therapy, also.

Alice Bag

I know! Yeah, actually...

Teri Gender Bender

It’s good, in a way. That’s what it is.

Alice Bag

I am a firm believer that punk rock is like the poor person’s therapy.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah.

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

‘Cause it’s so accepting, too, regardless of where you’re from. And that’s what I always loved about punk music, as well. And I remember reading something that you said, that the L.A. punk scene, in the East L.A. punk scene, it was very accepting of anyone, especially women, and very encouraging. Do you still feel that it’s like that today?

Alice Bag

I feel like the places where I go play, where I’m invited, it’s like... I feel like I’m invited to those places, because they are inclusive. And I don’t know if there is some secret skinhead club that is very racist, and macho, but I don’t know of it. To me, it seems that punk has gone full circle. And it’s become, again, like queer, and brown. And not just brown, but all colors, right?

I mean, I feel like it’s inclusive, and it’s shaped by people from all over this city, which is a very diverse city. So, yeah, I feel like everybody is putting punk back to where it should be, which is, messing with the status quo. You don’t want to mirror it. So, if you see a band that’s just doing what the last band, and they have perfect punk rock hairdos, and they’re wearing their little uniforms, I don’t think that’s punk. I don’t think that’s very punk.

I mean, I know, some people say, I’ve heard people say, “Who gets to say what’s punk? Anything can be punk,” and I just disagree. I don’t think anything can be punk. Can Donald Trump be punk? I don’t think so.

Teri Gender Bender

Whoo, I almost bit that...

Alice Bag

Oh, sorry.

Teri Gender Bender

No, because it’s very easy to say, “Oh, yeah, that’s punk, that’s punk, ‘cause...”

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And then, eventually, the word like, love, it starts getting worn out, and, or...

Alice Bag

Yeah!

Teri Gender Bender

Do you think the word feminism is being worn out, and…

Alice Bag

Yeah!

Teri Gender Bender

What are your thoughts on that?

Alice Bag

I think the word feminism is being strengthened and redefined. It’s being expanded. I was walking my dog yesterday and I saw my neighbor, who happens to be a guy, and he had a shirt with like glittery sliver letters that said “Feminist” and I’m like, “I love your shirt!” He’s like, “Yes!” I was really thrilled that it’s like, that finally the message has come across that we’re not trying to take anything away from anybody else. There’s not a lack of rights, “sorry these are my rights and you can’t have them” There’s enough rights for all of us, and we just want equal rights. We just want equal pay. [applause] Thank you.

Teri Gender Bender

No, thank you. I want to, ah, I’m sorry. I get so emotional and sometimes I feel very ashamed of that, and sometimes I blame maybe the way I was raised, like, “Oh, no, no, keep your emotions in, don’t show,” or you know that saying [inaudible] but…

Alice Bag

No! You’re with us.

Teri Gender Bender

… It’s good to be. Ok.

Alice Bag

You can do anything.

Teri Gender Bender

How do you do it? How do you wear your emotion? How do you speak so fluidly about your feelings? Is it a process, of course it’s a process, but... Tell me how do you do it?

Alice Bag

I think for me it’s just, I didn’t always feel like I could just say anything I wanted. I feel like there’s been times when I feel that I’m guarded because I’m afraid somebody will misinterpret what I’m going to say. Now, I just say it and I hope that people will keep listening. If they didn’t understand why I said something, that maybe they’ll listen long enough to where they’ll figure out who I am and why I said what I said. If not, that they’ll ask so I can explain it. I just... I just have more faith in humanity and I think they’re... Like when I was young I used to think people were stupid and I don’t think that anymore.

Why did I think that? Because I think people didn’t understand, I felt like people didn’t understand me and I felt like I’m really cool, I’m really smart, I’m really talented. My dad told me that. You don’t get it so you must be dumb. I feel like now, and I think I probably projected that. You know I probably thought like you’re not going to like me, you’re not going to get me and it was, that’s exactly what I got back. Now I expect that people are going to get me and that people if they aren’t sure about something I said that they will ask me. As a result, that’s exactly what I get. I get people who get me and I get people who are not afraid to ask. I feel connected, and much happier.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, ‘cause you’re doing yourself that service.

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

Yeah, ‘cause it’s coming from within you first, not to look for pleasing of other people. Yeah. I guess what I want to ask is, when do you realize I want to stop pleasing people?

Alice Bag

I don’t know. I mean I don’t know that I ever really wanted to please anybody except my father. Because my father had such high expectations of me, I think there was a certain point at which I decided that I wanted to be my own hero, that I wanted to live a life that I could be proud of. That I wanted to look at the things I did and say yeah, you know what that’s exactly what I wanted to do. I didn’t just fall into that. I didn’t just like, you know, I mean just that video we saw where I’m just kind of doing this... I think sometimes people live their life that way, where you’re just kind of channeled into other things.

I think there’s been times when I’ve led my life that way. Where I’ve just let myself be transported into situations that I didn’t want to be in. I find that the more I am involved in my actions and the more I’m in the driver’s seat, the better I feel about myself. I know I can’t control every situation, and I know that there’s going to be things that I do that I’m not happy with but at least I’m doing it with my eyes open and I’m making a deliberate effort to think everything through.

Teri Gender Bender

‘Cause if you can count on yourself then that means other people can count on you.

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

And vice versa.

Alice Bag

Yeah.

Teri Gender Bender

It’s a work in progress with me, but you’re an inspiration. Thank you.

Alice bag

It’s a work in progress with all of us. We’re all a work in progress. I think the thing is that we all have to, like I have a song that I just wrote on my new record called Blue Print where I’m like check the blue print, so you want to check like where are you headed with this structure that you’re constructing. Are you going in the right direction? Every now and then you should look at where you’re going.

Teri Gender Bender

Be aware of those questions at the very least. I want to put a video on, OK, this is actually, it linked me to you when I was very little. I was with these…

Alice Bag

Are you calling me old, Teri?

Teri Gender Bender

No.

Alice Bag

I am old. I’m happy at being old. I like it. I recommend it you guys. Join me.

Teri Gender Bender

After school I went to, I snuck... My mother won’t like this story, but... I snuck into a room full of these punk boys and they were watching Decline of Western Civilization and you were on the TV and I saw you and I was like, “Oh my gosh!” I didn’t know that was, that even existed ‘cause my only source of music education was the Spice Girls, just to make it clear. For me seeing this was like a religious revelation and I would like to put that on if that’s okay.

Alice Bag

Yeah, it’s okay.

Teri Gender Bender

OK.

(video: The Bags – “Gluttony” / applause)

Alice Bag

I don’t know, you think I sound like Sporty Spice?

Teri Gender Bender

When I saw that I was just like, “Wow! Why in the world am I finding out about this now?” in my head, and then I just want to say thank you for that because imagine just only having that one influence, you’re like, “Oh yeah, the Spice Girls” and that’s about it, that’s all I listen to. But no, no, that was a rude awakening as they call it, where you’re just like slapped in the face and the real deal, this raw energy. I wanted to ask you, because you know perspectives are sometimes insane, right? Someone could be completely enamored by it, but what was your perspective when, being in that moment, or what was the process like? How did this come about?

Alice Bag

Oh my God. I am not a huge fan of this documentary. I feel very privileged to have been in it, and I’m grateful that I’m in it, but I was very... It was a very difficult time for my band. We were, I think we broke up just a few months after this. It was also a time of transition for punk. What had been a very small punk rock community in Hollywood that was full of weirdos and full of like misfits from all over the city, was changing and taking on a very male dominated, very jock flavored feel. I didn’t like it and I think in this particular documentary it’s called the decline because you... To me, it’s like, “Oh yeah, it’s the decline of punk rock.” It’s like you’re seeing it as it’s falling apart.

I think in those days if you had asked me what’s going on with punk, I would have said “Punk’s dead, man. It happened in ’77 and now it’s over.” But it’s not true. The thing about this is, is that I have perspective now and I can see like, oh a bunch of people who hadn’t heard of punk all over the United States and maybe other countries as well, got their introduction from this film. Hopefully they were able to make something positive and more creative.

I think there’s a few people in this film that are very talented and that represent the original scene, and there are people there that are very talented and represent this new hard core scene, but there were a large number of bands that were really the pioneers of punk in Hollywood that were not documented. To me that’s sad too, because people who consider themselves punk fans may never hear of the Screamers or... [applause] Thank you... Or the Weirdos, or Controllers. You have something to add, Frank? I know Frank is here so I feel like the Plugs. The Plugs are not in that. Yeah. Oh my God.

Teri Gender Bender

Speaking about documenting these bands, you’ve been keeping an ongoing interview project called The Women in LA Punk Archives. What’s going on with that right now? Tell me about it.

Alice Bag

God that was... A few years ago I decided that I needed to have women tell their own story because it was the same sort of thing where I’d have people want to interview me about the early punk scene and they’d say, “But can you talk mostly about Darby Crash,” or, “Can you tell me a little bit about…” Like this particular group of people that they felt like those were the important people. I’m like, “What about all these other people that were involved that, without whom punk wouldn’t exist?” So I decided to interview the women who had been part of the early movement because I really feel without the participation of those women punk would not have been as challenging, as exciting, as diverse, as different and original as it was.

The reason that punk is really meaningful is because there were all these groups of people who had not had a voice before and they had original voices. You hear that, you hear that in punk. It’s different than what came before. It happened and all of a sudden nobody was writing about it. We were just being erased from history, so luckily there was the ability to... I mean, we can now write own stories and there’s an audience for it.

When I was growing up it was a time where you had to depend on like a published book or a published magazine to tell the story and if you were not fortunate enough to have somebody write about you, you were kind of fucked. Now, we can all write our own stories and we can have blogs and we can zines, and we can make sure that we document ourselves so that we feel like, “You didn’t create this. This is all of us.” You know?

Teri Gender Bender

I hope I’m not assuming I’m speaking on your behalf but thank you for that. If only more people did that, we wouldn’t be erased so easily. Thank you, Alice.

Alice Bag

Ah, you don’t have to thank me, but I appreciate it, Teri.