Arthur Verocai
On this very special couch session at the 2006 Red Bull Music Academy, we sit down with Arthur Verocai, a true pioneer of Brazilian music. Arthur takes us along the streets of Rio back in the ’60s, when Brazil had just won the World Cup, the first cars were being made, and, in spite of an oppressive dictatorship, bossa nova was born. Arthur displays some of his dextrous light-fingered moves on the neck of his guitar, while also telling us how he got hold of the first synthesizer to arrive in Rio, and how he fit his voice, guitar, drums, bass, percussion, synth, and a 20-piece string orchestra onto four measly tracks. It’s maths and magic all rolled into one.
Hosted by Jeff Chang Welcome this afternoon for another electric session here at the Red Bull Music Academy. Today we are very happy and honoured to have with us a legend. This is a record that came out in 1972 in Brazil out of Rio de Janeiro, and the genius behind this record is here on the couch with us today. Please join me in welcoming, Mr. Arthur Verocai. [applause] Now, Arthur has traveled a very long way to get here, as many of us have, and we all remember how that first day was after we traveled. So we’re going to just take it very slowly like the rhythms of Brazil and hear a lot of music, hear a lot of history and Mr. Verocai is also going to grace us with his beautiful guitar and his beautiful stylings. Arthur Verocai Thank you very much. Thank you to Red Bull and all the great people who are here. I’m glad to meet all of you, and thank you for all. I don’t speak English very well, and it’s a surprise to me to meet so many nice and sympathetic people. Thank you very much. [applause] Jeff Chang So Arthur, why don’t we start with what it was like for you growing up, coming of age during the 1960s in Brazil? There was a lot of music, there was a very repressive government and there were a lot of things happening. What was it like for you to be a young person in the ’60s? Arthur Verocai I began to play at six-years-old. I was listening to many styles of music, you know, but I began to play bossa nova. I am a son of bossa nova. And the dictatorship was in Brazil at that time, and the people and the rhythms and many music styles and lyrics were [censored]. Many composers were making music and not releasing the music because the government censored the lyrics. So many composers said the things indirectly. Jeff Chang We will talk about some of your songs on your record that talked about that, but I’m also interested in that you said you’re a “son of bossa nova." Arthur Verocai Yeah. My first music record was by Leny Andrade, a great Brazilian singer. Jeff Chang And you were only 21, or even younger, when you were doing that? Arthur Verocai Yeah, I don’t remember how old I was, but very young. And after this, I participated in music festivals with my songs, and in 1969 I made my first arrangement, because I used my music in these festivals to show my arrangements. I began to make the arrangements to my songs and went to other people, other composers liked it and I began my career with arrangements of my songs. Jeff Chang What type of ideas went to your arrangements at the time? I know that you have a lot of training. Arthur Verocai At the time, Burt Bacharach had much success, Jimmy Webb and the American people. And Brazil, we have the people of the bossa nova, Tom Jobim, Leny Andrade and others, and the others. I used the festival to open my career for arrangements. Jeff Chang Do you want to play for us any one of the songs that you might have written or that have influenced you? Arthur Verocai Yes, I will play you a song that was on the international festival of Rio. Jeff Chang Ah, OK, let’s turn this microphone over. What is this song called? Arthur Verocai “Saudade Demais” is the title, the lyrics are by Paulinho Tapajós, Little Paul Tapajós. (music: plays Arthur Verocai - “Saudade Demais” on acoustic guitar / applause) Jeff Chang “Saudade demais” means sort of a blues type of feeling for home, no? Something like that? How would you translate it? Arthur Verocai Ah, no. This has a harmony, Brazilian harmony, so... [plays guitar] This is not blues. Jeff Chang Oh no, I meant the idea, the name of the song. Arthur Verocai Ah, the name of the song. Yes, saudade, to miss. Jeff Chang To miss something. Arthur Verocai Too much miss... Jeff Chang Missing too much? Arthur Verocai Yeah, missing too much. Jeff Chang I see, a lot of the bossa nova songs are very much songs of, I guess, yearning, a deep feeling, yeah? Arthur Verocai Yeah. Jeff Chang And it seems interesting to me that you would have this music at the time when the government was so repressive, when the dictatorship was so strong. Arthur Verocai Yeah, bossa nova began before the dictatorship, some time when Brazil won the first football championship, the international world cup. And the first festival of movies – Cannes Film Festival. Brazil was growing culturally and a main part of the cultural life is the first car fabricated in Brazil. The industry was beginning and there was the liberty for the people to vote for a president and have many good things in Brazil at that time. Bossa nova was a fruit of this grown-up cultural... Jeff Chang ...period, yeah. Arthur Verocai We had some geniuses in bossa nova like Antonio Carlos Jobim, the best genius [of bossa nova]. Jeff Chang Now, by the time that you begin to work in the festivals there’s a lot of music that’s coming from all over the world that you’re listening to. You mentioned that you’re very much into Stan Kenton and the rock and the jazz and all these different kinds of music. How did that fit into your bossa nova background and foundation? Arthur Verocai When I began to make my own arrangements, I began to have a group in the Polygram company, that I began, named O Terço. This group was like The Beatles, and O Terço, after Ivan Lins is the beginning of a type of soul music. Not soul music but the whole mix, Brazilian samba with soul in particular. Now Ivan Lins is not soul music, has nothing to do with soul music anymore, but this was the beginning influence of soul in Brazilian music. Tim Maia, you know? Jeff Chang Oh yeah, Tim Maia. Arthur Verocai Tim Maia is great soul music, Brazilian soul music. Jeff Chang And you said Ed Motta. Arthur Verocai Tim Maia is Ed Motta’s uncle. Ed Motta is a new generation. And at that time in the world you had The Beatles, Burt Bacharach, many great bands Frank Zappa, and great bands – Stan Kenton. And all of this influenced me. I love music, you know? I love all types of music. And when I recorded this album, I used all the things that I like. Jeff Chang All the influences? Arthur Verocai Yeah, and this the first synthesizer that got to Rio de Janeiro, the effects are from the first synthesizer that goes to Brazil. Jeff Chang Yeah? Arthur Verocai The first Brazilian people who buy a synthesizer. Jeff Chang Shall we play it? Arthur Verocai If you want. Jeff Chang [to the audience] What you think? Audience Yeah! (music: Arthur Verocai - “Caboclo” / applause) Jeff Chang So tell us how you composed that, how you put that song together. Did it start from guitar, did it start from a vocal line? Did it start from... What did it start from? Arthur Verocai At that time we recorded at four channels only. Jeff Chang Four tracks? Arthur Verocai Four tracks. Jeff Chang That was four tracks? Wow! Arthur Verocai The first time we recorded the guitar, bass, drums and percussion in two tracks. Jeff Chang On two tracks. How did you see...? Go ahead, I’m sorry. Arthur Verocai Eh? Jeff Chang How did you separate the two tracks? Which was on which tracks? Arthur Verocai We had a good sound engineer in Brazil. He’s dead now, but his name was Salinho Moreira. Salinho recorded two channels – so bass in the centre, guitar in one channel and percussion. I don’t know now, but the drummer was stereo. He divided it into two channels. After, we recorded the session strings, and then in another channel the voice. But the synthesizer effects we put in the mix, to gain one more channel. During the mix, we put the sound of the synthesizer simultaneous with the mix. Jeff Chang So you overdubbed the synthesizer, you recorded it later? Arthur Verocai No, in real time, in real time during the mix. But it had mistakes. Jeff Chang Wow [laughs]. Yeah, if you messed that up... Arthur Verocai Yeah, but the result was good. The sound was very careful. Jeff Chang I want to play another song here, too, that’s a little bit more up-tempo called "Sylvia". And maybe we can talk about that as well? Arthur Verocai Yeah, you can show this... Jeff Chang Yeah, OK. Let’s start this again. (music: Arthur Verocai - “Karina” / applause) Arthur Verocai This record was recorded with everybody together. Jeff Chang All in the same room? Arthur Verocai All in one session, "ping” and finished. Don’t have [over]dub. Make a solo after, not solo after, everybody sings and that happens [at] one time. And I was maestro, conductor of Club TV in Brazil, and we have a trombone player, his name’s Maciel. Crazy Maciel! But Edson Maciel is a type of legend of musicians. He was a second trombone of [the] band of TV. You were not happy every time he played your parts – he wanted to play every potential for your music [imitates soloing trombonist], but we don’t have market for this. I call Maciel, and say, “Maciel, I have one solo for you. It’s 9 o’clock tomorrow morning. Please, can you make a good solo for me?” And Maciel says, “Oh, wait a minute, I got to go to the bar.” Jeff Chang [laughs] [To] get a drink! Arthur Verocai Cachaça. I came back, rehearsal, “Maciel?” “Arthur please, a moment." Goes down... Jeff Chang Goes down to the bar again? [laughs] Arthur Verocai He comes back, rehearsal, and three times he goes to the bar. Put on the solo of Maciel ’cause you’ll see that the musicians hear. Jeff Chang They does better, because he is blowing so hard. Arthur Verocai You can put to the last solo of Maciel’s music now, of this music. Jeff Chang Um... Audience Play it. Arthur Verocai Play it! Jeff Chang Do you want play it? OK, got you. Ah, let’s see. Is it last minute or so? Arthur Verocai That music, that last music, “Karina.” Jeff Chang This one, the one that we were just playing? (music: Arthur Verocai - “Karina” trombone solo part) Arthur Verocai This solo, oh! Applause to Maciel! Jeff Chang So I guess what you’re saying is, sometimes you got to let them get what they need to get, in order for you to get what you need to get. They need to drink up a little bit, so you can get a great solo, yeah? [laughs] Arthur Verocai Yeah, great solo. Jeff Chang So in the cases where you’re doing production work, you’re working with huge number of the musicians, many musicians in this particular piece. How do you get them to prepare? Arthur Verocai In this piece I have a trio of great musicians, a trio of bass and two percussionists. Helio Delmiro, a great guitarist, Luiz Alvez on bass, Robertinho Silva on drums – no Robertinho Silva on percussion, Pascoal Meireires on drums and Nivaldo Ornelas on sax and tenor and Maciel on sax and trombone. I don’t have so much people on that track. Jeff Chang Wow, it sounds like a lot. I mean, you make it sound very big, with your arrangements. Arthur Verocai It’s the way how to write for horns. I have a way that I don’t need much people to make this effect. To separate the voices more, like more, great sound, you understand? Jeff Chang Yes, definitely. So over the years you ended up doing a lot of arrangements for many artists: Gal Costa, Jorge Ben, Marcos Valle. How is that different from the work that you did for this particular record? Arthur Verocai Ah, this record, I am free. I produce, I don’t have anyone to say to me “do this,” nobody say nothing to me, make decisions for me, nothing. I make all my way, that’s the difference. Gal has her style, and Marcos is a great singer and a great composer, but that’s his style, you know? Not my style. I have to adapt to each styles [when producing], I cannot change my own style, you know? Jeff Chang You said that... You were saying that what was maybe disappointing was the way that the record was received by the marketers? Arthur Verocai This record. Jeff Chang Your album, yeah. Arthur Verocai Because I have this track, for example, "Karina." Totally free, it’s totally without commercial... Call, recall, but... People don’t understand it. People wants their money. The companies want a little with the money. They said that Verocai is crazy to make this sound, this record. Jeff Change They just couldn’t understand what you were trying to do? Arthur Verocai Yeah. This album did not have many good sells. It became to sleep during the years. Jeff Change You called it a sleeping giant, I think you called it, huh? Arthur Verocai Yeah, a sleeping giant. 30 years after, the giant wake up. Jeff Change 30 years? Now it’s all over the world though. Now everybody kind of... Arthur Verocai Japan, Europe. Jeff Change Did that discourage you though? Did you decide that you wanted to move away from the music industry after the experience with your album? Were you still making music after the album? Did you kind of leave it slowly? Arthur Verocai I go to the advertising market to make music, to jingles, scores, and commercials. Same products. I managed to do records and I still work in the recording studio to give me more comfort to work. Make jingles during the years, but time and time [inaudible] Jeff Chang Now you are actually back to making a lot of music, I understand now. Who have you been working with more recently? Arthur Verocai I’m recording an album to Far Out, it will be releasing in March next year. Produced by Dave Brinkworth. With my sons, have two singers, strings, horns, percussions. We will be releasing in March. I release an album, a domestic album in 2002. With songs of... bossa nova style. I have some here if anybody wants... Jeff Chang I think there are a lot of people that want that. Arthur Verocai I’m making two classical pieces to the guitar. Composing to guitar. I have an album with parts for guitar solo if anybody wants to play guitar solo. Jeff Chang Anybody? Arthur Verocai 90 pieces in this album. Jeff Chang Whoa. Arthur Verocai The music writing. That’s all. I compose to the guitar and Uni Rio, the university of Rio de Janeiro, of music. I have preludes in the curriculum of the university. Jeff Chang People are now studying your work? Formally? Arthur Verocai Formally, yeah. I love to compose to guitars and for guitars and strings. I love to compose as my life. Jeff Chang One of the things that you’ve been doing has been to... Just as many of us of a new generation have been turned on to your music, it seems that you’ve been going back to some of that music as well. You have made some new arrangements for some of the music that maybe you have before showed. Should we play some of that? Maybe the guitar music, the CD? Yeah? Okay. Should we play the original first? Arthur Verocai I made an arrangement to four guitars. Jeff Chang Not this one. What was the track? Arthur Verocai Put "Karina" in, maybe I exchanged it. Jeff Chang Yeah. They got the titles mixed up I think on the cover. "Karina," like this one? The one we have played before? (music: Arthur Verocai - "Sylvia" / applause) How do you work with the new technology now? How so you incorporate that into what you do now? Arthur Verocai The new technologies is like an invention of the electricity, the light. Jeff Light It’s a breakthrough, change everything. Arthur Verocai Today we have a symphonic orchestra in the computer. Jeff Chang In the computer. Arthur Verocai You have all the instruments. Parts. Click the mouse to create notes and phrases. It creates everything. It’s a new world to travel. We go inside this world. Jeff Chang Many artists have actually used technology to sample a lot of your old songs. How do you feel about that? I know many artists have mixed feelings about that. Arthur Verocai At the first moment I feel very grateful, very good, very nice. Because people like my work and use my work. I’m very glad with this. But some people don’t have authorization, and use the work – but the world is like this, we can’t [control] these things. Jeff Chang So it’s sort of partly good and partly bad. You’re happy that younger folks are listening to your music and introducing it to their peers, but at the same time a lot of artists are taking your music. Arthur Verocai For example, that guy who... Jeff Chang MF Doom? Phonte from Little Brother? Arthur Verocai Little Brother, a master. Take a little piece of the music, eight measures, and creates a lyric, another lyric, puts the drum, speeds it up and uses it and... Jeff Chang And pay you for that. Arthur Verocai Yeah, very well, very good. Jeff Chang It’s the other ones that don’t pay you – not so good. Arthur Verocai Ah, yeah yeah, not so good. MF Doom, eh? Jeff Chang MF Doom, huh? Arthur Verocai I don’t want to say. Jeff Chang If you’re listening, MF Doom! Arthur Verocai He takes the introduction of the horns, takes the middle of the music, and more. On the internet I received an email of a fan, who told me, “Verocai, this guy makes two songs with your song. Go there!” I go to listen, he takes the introduction of “Seriado,” “Na Boca Do Sol.” He takes the introduction, the middle and makes a mix, and makes his songs. Jeff Chang Let’s play the Little Brother track, since they paid you for it. And see what that sounds like. (music: Little Brother - “We Got Now” / applause) So they took that [sings] Arthur Verocai Yeah. Sped it up, you know? Jeff Chang Yeah, cut it up a little bit. jeff Chang We want to open it to the floor. Anybody with a question? Audience Member It's the first time I'm discovering you and it's extraordinary. I'm a big fan of Frank Zappa and the music you play here is very close to Frank Zappa music, the sound. I don't say you copy Frank Zappa but I would like to know how you discover Frank Zappa and if you meet him, when it was? And where? Arthur Verocai Do you think it's too much like Frank Zappa? I don't understand your question. Audience Member It's really close. Arthur Verocai Is a copy of Frank Zappa? Audience Member No, not copy. It's a surprise for me because a Brazilian guy like you is doing music like Frank Zappa. I would like to know how it's possible. Arthur Verocai I listen to Zappa, '69, '70, '71 maybe. I listen Frank Zappa, he play wah-wah guitar and give me influence. I'm very grateful to Frank Zappa, he give me... [plays guitar] That have more influence of Frank Zappa I think. After this become jazz. [plays guitar] And it became jazz. Jeff Chang Putting together Frank Zappa and sort of a jazz... Arthur Verocai Mixed. All the things mixed. I don't know how I make this but... Jeff Chang The other question was did you ever meet Frank Zappa? When he went to Brazil. Arthur Verocai No I never meet him. I once listened Frank Zappa, I don't remember what album Frank Zappa, because I had albums, people go to my house, take albums, they don't remember. I have no more of his albums. Jeff Chang Maybe We're Only In It For The Money or something. Audience Member The music reminds me of the album The Grand Wazoo and Hot Rats. 1971, 1973. Arthur Verocai I record this '72, maybe '71. Audience Member [inaudible] Arthur Verocai Please speak slow. Audience Member Do you put less chords in the music to express more? Arthur Verocai Less chords? What less chords? Audience Member As opposed to more jazz where you put many, many chords. Maybe chord progression, less chords in the progression. Arthur Verocai Less? Jeff Chang He says to him your music sounds like jazz but fewer chords. Arthur Verocai Ah. This song you said, yeah. Jazz in my conception is a performance by the musician, improvising, and in that time the... It's a form of jazz because it's not traditional jazz, the new jazz players are improvising in only one chord. Because have... Rest in one chord. It's more difficult not to have many scales to use, to improvise. To have one idea in the mind, to improvise in the one chord, to have more ideas to improvise in one chord than to have 20 chords. Audience Member [inaudible]. The players could express more maybe... Say what they want to say musically, easier through one chord as opposed to other jazz. Jeff Chang Because there's fewer chords do you think your musicians can be more expressive in what they're playing? Arthur Verocai No, I think not. Fewer chords is more the time, the fashion of this time. Audience Member Thank you. Audience Member When you compose primarily you work from the guitar? Arthur Verocai Any manners to compose. I compose with the mouse, I compose with the guitar, maybe with piano, I compose. Now a few years ago, I compose with the mouse, because mouse don’t have instruments to jail me. When [using] the mouse, you’re free with the parts and the mind is free to think about the subconscious, to play and to create, huh? Audience Member Do you visualize the sounds in colours? Arthur Verocai To imagine Johann Sebastian Bach in the 17th century. Jeff Chang 18th century, yes. Arthur Verocai They don’t have mouse, don’t have computers, nothing. But your mind is great, that size. Wrote with nothing. But I have the computer to help me. The computer is very good to... I am free with the computer to make the... Jeff Chang What you said was, you’re jailed by the instruments in a way? Arthur Verocai Because with the instrument you’re limited. Jeff Chang With what you can physically do? Arthur Verocai Physically. You’re limited physically, because when you think about music, you will simultaneously think about the finger here, there, where I go. But to have music that [comes] out spontaneous, I pick music that [comes] out spontaneously. [starts to improvise on guitar] I like to improvise, but it’s only melody – one melody with one harmony. But when I have four voices, four instruments simultaneously, I can hear that violin is not good to compose, because you can’t get all the voices. Jeff Chang But I guess another question related to that is, in the style of bossa nova, it’s really guitar-based, yeah? So do you find, since you come with the bossa nova foundation, that when you approach the computer, you bring that to what you’re making onto the computer? Arthur Verocai Bossa nova, no. No, no. Jeff Chang No? OK. Arthur Verocai Bossa nova doesn’t use guitar bass, bossa nova use acoustic bass. It’s in the beginning they didn’t have guitar bass in that time, only acoustic bass, because acoustic bass is used in jazz, huh? Jeff Chang Aah. Arthur Verocai Bossa nova is the same like jazz. Jeff Chang I guess maybe the other way to ask the question is does an instrument influence the way that you make the music, or the way you compose? Does that makes sense? Arthur Verocai Guitar is a great instrument to compose bossa nova. If the guitar didn’t exist, then neither would bossa nova. Bossa nova is a guitar [music]. Guitar is a fundamental instrument to bossa nova. Joao Gilberto created – no, adapted – the samba beat of the tambourine [plays the bossa nova rhythm on the guitar, “tit tac tac tic tac tac”]. The bass made the third, “Tunk tac tac tunk tac tac,” you know? It’s the bossa nova. And Jobim makes the melody. [plays Antônio Carlos Jobim - “Desafinado” on acoustic guitar / applause] (music: Antônio Carlos Jobim - “Desafinado”) Jeff Chang Yeah. Arthur Verocai Bossa nova, with the guitar. I have the instrument to make another type of music. Like this... [plays Arthur Verocai - “Filhos” on acoustic guitar / applause] (music: plays Arthur Verocai - “Filhos” on acoustic guitar / applause) Jeff Chang He just presented an entire history of the last 100 years of Brazilian music, in the last ten minutes right here. That was beautiful, thank you. Were there enough chords there? [laughs] I think there were enough. Arthur Verocai The name of this tune is Filhos. Lyrics by Paulinho Tapajós. It’s the new album on Far Out. Ivan Lins sings this song. Jeff Chang So that’s gonna be on the new record? Arthur Verocai New record, yeah. Jeff Chang Yeah, beautiful. Thank You. Are there questions? Audience Member You mentioned Johann Sebastian Bach before. I’m just wondering whether there are any other classical composers that were influences on your arrangements or your compositions? Arthur Verocai Classical? I don’t get to play often, but this is an American prelude. I’ll try, but it’s very difficult for me to play this song. [plays guitar] Audience Member I guess my question was, in terms of when you were doing an arrangement, or making a composition, are there any other composers, who are an influence on you? For example, I read an interview one time talking about Tom Jobim, saying how he was very influenced by Chopin. Do you have any influences like that? Arthur Verocai Antônio Jobim? Jobim has many influences to French music: Debussy, Ravel. Chopin, not so much – he has more influences from Debussy, Ravel I would say, these type of impressionists. But I don’t understand your question? Jeff Chang Well, for you, are there any other classical music composers that have influenced you? Arthur Verocai Yeah, I love Bach. I love Villa-Lobos, a Brazilian composer. All the composers that I listen to influence me. I love Chopin too. I love Debussy, I love all composers. But I don’t like too much the classical period. I don’t like it too much because it don’t have too much to do with me. I like more... The first music you have in this CD is an example of Villa-Lobos and Bach mixed. Jeff Chang Shall we play that? Arthur Verocai Yeah. (music: Arthur Verocai - Unknown) I recorded it to my house, the two guitars. Jeff Chang You recorded both guitars. He was saying during the break it was a piece for two guitars and very influenced by Debussy right? Is that what you said? What did you say? Arthur Verocai I have Debussy interest too. The beginning is more Villa-Lobos. That stuff [plays guitar] Bach. [plays guitar] It’s a mix. Jeff Chang Mixing it up. Arthur Verocai I’m sorry. Jeff Chang Question over here. Audience Member I wanted to ask about capoeira influences? Arthur Verocai Capoeira is a game. Audience Member Yeah I know, they have special music. Arthur Verocai Capoeira is folkloric game. Audience Member You and capoeira music? Arthur Verocai My son played capoeira. Baden Powell, great Brazilian guitarist who dead. is the greatest guitarist in Brazil. He make the instrument of capoeira. [plays guitar] I just make this song. [applause] I never composed with this instrument. I’m sorry. Jeff Chang Question up here. Torsten Schmidt When we wonder what makes the music of you or Jorge Ben or [inaudible] so beautiful, we really do admire your musicianship, there is one quote that always comes up and it is, “I only try to do was to simplify the Beatles.” Can you try to explain that a little bit? Arthur Verocai I did not... Jeff Chang Your work, Jorge Ben were always influenced by the Beatles and trying to simplify the Beatles for Brazil, I suppose. Arthur Verocai Simplify the Beatles? Jeff Chang You think? Arthur Verocai No... Tim Maia... Tim Maia was a great singer. He’s more song music. Because... [plays guitar] It's more soul then... Tim Maia is more sing. And Beatles is more white music. [laughs] It’s very beautiful. It’s beautiful. Audience Member [inaudible]. Jeff Chang Well, the Brazilian music sounds so much more rich, colorful than the Beatles. Arthur Verocai No. Beatles... Each guy give your message, all the music is very good. Beatles... Beatles is the Beatles. John Lennon, Paul McCartney great composers. [plays "Yesterday" on guitar] Great song, everybody like how this is. It’s a universal song of world. Every world like this. But Brazilian music is... Have many tendencies, many influences. It have Afro influences, it have Arabic influences because Iberic peninsula, Spain and Portugal was invaded by the Arabs and the music came... Jeff Chang North African. Arthur Verocai Yeah. The North Eastern, North Brazil, the Baianos... [plays guitar] Have many influences. [plays guitar] It has many influences. Arab, you know? Have influence of Indians. Indigenous. It’s a product of many people, many cultures... Brazilian music. European too. The shodinho. Shodinho is an example of this European music. [plays guitar] This is harmony and melody. European but Afro with rhythm. Torsten Schmidt Can you give us some more examples of how, especially when it comes to harmony and rhythm. You can use whatever European theme, as soon as it lands in Brazil, something beautiful can emerge. Arthur Verocai A touch of the harmony... [plays guitar] It's European harmony but the samba. [plays guitar] It's black. Afro influence. TORSTEN SCHMIDT If someone wants to learn to play samba on the guitar, it’s something that must be really hard because, it’s looks so easy when you go see people play. Then all of a sudden you’re like... Arthur Verocai No, it’s very easy. [laughs] TORSTEN SCHMIDT Can you give us a few tips maybe? Arthur Verocai At first to learn one position only. [plays guitar] After go to... step by step learning. Music is step by step. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Count the first five steps that you would... Arthur Verocai Five steps? Jeff Chang You have to sign up for the class that he teaches. Arthur Verocai It’s only step by step. Music is... Because the people is not adapted. Charles Darwin said, The Origin of Species, this book will change the think of the humanity. That the animal adapted to ambient and the man adapted to instrument but step by step. Not one day for another day. The adaptation is quotidian. jeff Chang You got to get out of the water before you can walk I guess. More questions? Back here. Audience Member Hi. A really significant part of your music, certainly in the songs that I love of yours, is the strings. The string arrangement. I just wondered if you could talk a little bit about string arrangement and at what point in the composition that comes and how you go about it? I also wondered whether we might be able to listen to the original version of "Sylvia" because... Maybe use that as a case study because that’s one of my favorite examples. Arthur Verocai What’s the question? [laughs] Jeff Chang The question is, with the strings, he loves the strings. He wants to know when you add the strings to a composition? When does that come in? Does it come last? Do put that after... Arthur Verocai "Sylvia" example. "Sylvia" was... I was making the album and one... I had only nine musics but have to be 10. Jeff Chang 10 songs. 10 songs yeah. Arthur Verocai 10 songs. What I do now? I make in the studio, making in my house and one day before the harmonic sequence [plays guitar] and recorded this base. I go to my house to think about what I do now? I made but don’t have planned nothing to play in this case. It was really... Improvised. This music. It’s spontaneous yeah? Jeff Chang The thing about the record when you go and get it is that all of the songs have the wrong titles on them. This is what I’m just figuring out now. I think this is the one. Let me see if we got this. Wait a minute that’s not the... I am in two? Okay. (music: Arthur Verocai - "Sylvia" / applause) You said that you had done that spontaneously, it just came to you. Arthur Verocai Yeah with four trumpets and the one flute making the... I became super modern conception, no? That today’s... It’s modern today. Thirty years after. Jeff Chang We’re catching up now. Arthur Verocai In the end, have a flute improvised. I listened a song by Jethro Tull [plays guitar]. I just said to Oberdan make, improvise with song simultaneously, together and Oberdan use this effect in the record because of the Jethro Tull, I listened in the Jethro Tull song. Jeff Chang Jethro Tull was another influence then. All right. Who was talking about the Jethro Tull match last night? Arthur Verocai The strings was used in the bass region, the violins. The people used the violin in treble. And have the sharps, many sharps too, to minor, second minor. It give a atmosphere different. Jeff Chang Little depth to the sound and space. Breadth to the sound. Arthur Verocai The drums, not a convention drums. By working the toms, cymbals [imitates drums] And the percussion, have samba percussion. Albertinho plays Samba in this... It’s a peril of percussion but he created it. He create. I not wrote this thing. Percussion was free. They fill this. Jeff Chang Just like I said, catching up now. We’re just catching up now. The Samba, the Bach, the Jethro Tull. Arthur Verocai Music is a mix of everything. This is, is carnival. No not carnival but it’s a mix. It’s beautiful to mix... You make a cake with butter, milk, eggs. Jeff Chang Mix it all up. Other questions? Comments? Thoughts? Okay. Maybe we can close then with another... Oh here, we have a question over here. Emma? Emma Warren This is very great for me. I was wondering we could possibly hear you play one more thing? Arthur Verocai What? Emma Warren Could you play one more piece of music for me please? Arthur Verocai One more music? Emma Warren Please. Arthur Verocai My fingers are sleeping yet. I not forget to... (music: Arthur Verocai live performance / applause)