Benjamin Wright Jr.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

We’re very excited about our guest this afternoon. He’s a composer and arranger as well as a musician, producer and songwriter. You are undoubtedly familiar with his work whether you realize it or not, so please welcome Mr. Benjamin Wright Jr.

[applause]

How are you?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I’m an old man. I’m fine. Thank you very much.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

So based on your experience, how do you define the responsibility of an arranger?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Great, number one. Generally, arranger’s create magic. Most time to when we get to track it’s bare, and you have to be, in my opinion, like a great A&R person. You hear something, and you determine what it can be versus what it is. As for me, I get a track, as old as I am, my mind is still wandering. It’s like stuff is in my head, so I get a track and, man, I start moving, “Yeah, I want to do this, and I want to do that,” and all of a sudden I start writing. I always have this thing, and please forgive me, but I always pray and it’s God to give me the notes, man. We just had a conversation, as long as I’ve been around, I’ve never been in the session where I have to change something.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You mean change your contribution?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Change the notes on the paper or whatever, even before notation software. We just did it by hand. If there was a mistake, it was the copyist. It’s not me, man. [laughs]

[applause]

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

That’s kind of cold, because you were copyist, too.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah, that’s why I know, man. It’s the copyist.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK, we’ll play a little piece of music from your vast catalog work. We’ll play a little piece or something. We got a lot of music to go through, but we’ll play a little something maybe you can think back as to what it was you did to it to uphold that responsibility.

(music: Dynasty – “Adventures in the Land of Music”)

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK, so that’s a group called Dynasty, right? “Adventures in the Land of Music,” S.O.L.A.R. Records, 1980.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

The bass player for The Sylvers, Leon, was the producer.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Leon Sylvers III.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Leon Sylvers who still has a very amazing musical mind. It seems like I went crazy a bit, sounds like there was a big budget here, OK? Man, I haven’t heard that in 25 years.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Sounds okay, still.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah, it’s like I would’ve wrote the same shit today.

[laughter]

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Well, I think it’s funny this track is a classic, but then a lot of people learned about the original because it was eventually sampled in a hip-hop record. But there’s a lot going on at the very beginning of the track. Now, you did string arrangements on this as well as the horn arrangements. In your mind, I don’t know what you recall from this specifically. But it’s very rhythmic, it’s very punchy, and it really grabs you as soon as you hear the song. That’s the immediate thing that you hear.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I think most of my work is kind of rhythmic. That’s because I was a rhythmic organ player. I had no dexterity and the whole bit like all the cats, man. I was playing like a guitar player, and I hear stuff like that, stuff has to move. “What’s in the crack right here? I need to put something here, man. Yeah. Surprise. OK. Put the strings in there, that’s the conjunction, tie it together. OK, they’re going to sleep. Hit ‘em! Bow!” That’s the way I write, man. [laughs]

[applause]

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Well, you’re known for strings – obviously do horns, that’s part of your repertoire as well – but what qualities can these instrumental voices bring to a piece of music? Like, rhythmically or mood-wise. I guess how long does it take for you, first of all, to sit with a piece of music before you begin to write?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

It’s the spirit. When I was a young cat I was just so full of music, OK? As I began to grow, assignments were getting heavy. And lots of ‘em, OK? And we’re speaking before technology and I had to do it with a pen. And I can remember I came on a chart. [pretends to write arrangement charts] “OK, OK. Copyist, next. What time is it? It’s 3:00 in the morning. I got two more charts, session is at 10:00. Copyist. Whoo, I made it.”

Now, you have to think about the quality where you’re really on it and the whole bit, and this is where I have to say the blessings come in, because most of my work get on the charts. There’s some things that didn’t make, whatever, but I’m going to make a bold statement. I’m going to say 95% of what I’ve written got on [the charts]. OK? For the other 5% I’m going to say, some jacked up songs, man. [laughs]

Like I said, the quality of whatever and I’m very strong about that. I had a conversation with a cat yesterday, younger cat I was talking to, and I said, “One of the lessons that I learned early, as a young arranger, you just write. You write over everything – you just write. You just write.” And I remember the session on old trumpet player, pulled me to the side, “Hey, young blood, let me speak to you.” “OK.” He says, “Have you ever seen a breath mark?” “Yeah.” However, I had never payed attention to a breath mark. “Yes, sir.” He said, “You need to incorporate that.” In his words he said, “You’re writing your ass off.” He said, “But music has to breathe.” It’s like, “Wow! What a lesson.” Because I wasn’t concerned about anything else in the track, it’s just what was in my head, which was a lot of notes. And being a brass player, the cat said, “Damn! I got to breathe. You’re killing us.” That was 40-something years ago. And that stands out in my mind all the time. Get out of the singers’ way, just accompany them. OK, this guitar players saying something very important here, “Move, get your butt out of the way.” Write something to talk to [and] be in a conversation with him. That kind of thing. So that’s going on and I hear a lot of things and I say, “Oh young writer,” because he’s over everything. “Let the music breathe.” That was my lesson.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You’re from Greenville, Mississippi originally, correct?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yes.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What kind of opportunities [were there] for an African-American person were coming up in those years?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Can you spell none?

[laughter]

Let me explain. Being an African-American in that time – guys, I’m 70-years- old, so I’m talking a long time ago. What was happening in my hometown in Mississippi, and still is, is blues. Nothing but blues. In the civilized world we have 16 bar blues. In Mississippi then, it might be 12 and a half bars, 15 bars, 13 bars. What the hell is that? You learn follow the singer. The singers have no idea about music, it’s just whatever they feel they go to it. I learned that early. That has helped as a conductor, because no matter who the singer is, and you got a symphony orchestra on stage, and the singer gets excited and go where he’s not supposed to be, or she...

And this is another point, too, I always number each bar. Because when somebody gets lost, and you’re in real time you say, “Bar 32.” “Bar 32? OK, let me count back. Because it go to letter C, that’s bar...” OK, “Damn! You missed it.” So I number each bar. OK, we’re lost. On my downbeat we had 32. Three, four, boom, we’re all together again. You know what I’m saying? I don’t you guys, whatever, but for old people we number the bar so we can always... It’s very important when you’re live with a big orchestra. ‘Cause [you] don’t have a lot of rest because the orchestra is going to go to get sleep, man. It’ s like [pretends to talk to orchestra members], “OK, may I have your attention? Wake up. Wake up. Hey, touch him. OK, here we go. Bang!” You know what I’m saying? It’s important. It’s important.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

So given your interest in music, how did you overcome the obstacles? I think you had said before when we were talking that the teachers in school would tell you, “You can do one or two things with your career...”

Benjamin Wright Jr.

OK, let me go back a bit. Doing blues, whoever came through town I would meet them. All the musicians, because that’s what I wanted to do. So a lot of times my parents would not know where I was, because if somebody came through town, and unfortunately, I don’t want to just cast all blues people are the same. But most time they’d be drunk and shit. [laughs] So you say, “Hey, man, you need a bass player?” Guys would say, “Where’s the bass player?” [pretends to be dead drunk] ”Yeah, come on new blood.” So I’m gone. Tell your parents? No, I’m just gone. “You need a drummer? Piano player?” Whatever, I was there. OK?

Now, I eventually end up being able to play with the school band director’s band, where you had to have white shirt and black pants. You learn to get to the gig before time because he puts on the after six jacket. I was a little bitty cat, man. If I messed around and be late, I get a 46 jacket on me. It’s only touched me on my shoulder. So, that was a good lesson, in terms of being on time the whole bit. And doing that I just formulated in my mind, “This is what I want to do.” Now, it comes to graduating time in high school. Today we’re familiar with how the counselors speak to everybody individually. Ooh, we had some of that. My counseling was, and let me be very open about it, “Your grades are not good, your mama doesn’t have any money, you’re dark. I suggest you try and get a job at the post office or go to the army.” That’s it. “I don’t work at no damn post office.”

[laughter]

And my mind never imagined being in the military, OK? “What are you going to do?” “I’m going to be a professional musician.” “What is that?” That didn’t exist in my hometown. There were people who played music on the weekends or whatever, but a professional musician? No. I got a little story, I’m full of stories. A few years ago my high school band director came to LA, called me, I sent my wife to pick him up because I was in session. Came to the house, I’m so excited to have him, he sat in the studio. I’m doing some guitar overdubs. And to show you how naïve even my band director was, we finished with the guitar, and he asked the guitar player, “Son, what’s your real job?” The guitar player looks at me like, “What the hell is he talking about? I play guitar, I make about 300 grand a year, and he’s asking me what my real job is?” Well, my band director is from Greenville, Mississippi. Nobody could have imagined a 9 to 5 musician. You know what I’m saying? When I said, I want to be a professional musician, I didn’t know about the 9 to 5. Because there were no recording studios where I am from or whatever. I knew that there was some studio somewhere but that wasn’t in my realm. I just wanted to be a musician and God blessed me to be that.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Just by being smart on your feet and sitting in when you could and eventually joining a band.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah. Now, there’s another thing, and I hope I am not getting ahead of myself, but in terms of writing, being in that environment pre-integration, we only had one junior and high school for the black kids. The band was like, we had about like 450 band members, it’s a hell of a size band. One band director. He had no assistant, whatever. We were an award-winning band. We were bad. We had an attitude the whole bit, OK? But we went to the band director and say, “Hey, man. We want to play what’s on the radio at the football games.” Band director said, “What? You know what you’re saying?” “Yeah, we want to play what’s on the radio at the football games.” He said, “No way, man. I have parades, I have competitions, ceremonies, four, five other things. And it’s just me. You want to play what’s on the radio? Go write it.” I’m like, “Write it? How do you write?”

The three of us got together and we were able to figure out to some degree what the melody was of the tune that we really wanted to play on the radio. I don’t remember what it was, but we did that. We didn’t know anything about harmonizing, whatever. Just the melody. The drums, the tuba, the clarinets, trumpets, trombones, we didn’t have french horns, we had mellophones. Everybody playing the melody. The crowd went, “Yay!” It was the worst-sounding shit in the world, man. But that approval messed with my head. I said, “Wow, I want to write.” And that’s what I started doing.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

When did you get your first formal education, training in writing and composing?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

OK, I have to take you back. I got drafted into the military, OK? And instead of me doing Uncle Sam’s job I opt to study music. At that particular time, this is about ‘64/’65, there was a new school in Boston called Berklee School of Music. I don’t think anybody here is old enough to remember that at that particular time the Berklee School of Music was only a correspondence school.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Which meant?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

When you registered and the whole bit, they sent you homework. You study and whatever and ‘da-da-da-da,’ figure it out and mail it back to the school. Then they will mail you the results. I also took the Carl Fisher correspondence, and the military had a department of defense theory class for band members, but because I was a G.I., I was entitled to it. So that was my study. I never knew what anything sounded like, but praise God I always made 100s on my homework. One of the things that bothered me more than anything were strings. “Treble clef, OK. Bass clef, OK. Violas? Movable clef.” I had that in school, but my homework was always a 100. But I never felt comfortable about that until I got my first gig to write for strings. I’m nervous. What made me nervous is that, will I get the violas right? So I go to the studio, I’m looking at viola players, it’s like, “I hope I get this right.” They begin to play and then it got into a divisive thing when they [play] the harmonies there. I listened, they were right. I got attitude, I say, “Yeah, I can do this.” [laughs] And that’s how it’s been ever since, so I was very blessed. But my education started with correspondence stuff, OK? I was a timpani player in a high school band. I thought it was cute, but that didn’t help in terms of me trying to play keyboards or whatever. All of that came later. I was doo-woping, I was singing, playing drums. After I started arranging and the whole bit and hooked up with a wonderful band called The Pieces of Peace. We were a session band, so we did all of the heavy stuff in Chicago. Since I was writing everything I was trying to encourage the cats, “Hey man, we ought to go to school.” “Yeah, right. We’re going to go to school.” Now, I’m just telling the story on everybody. Everybody was drugged out but me. “So when are we’re going to go to school?” They would always tell me, “Yeah. OK. Hey, man we’re going to register next week.” Next week, next week, next week, always next week. I finally decided, I’m going to go down to the Chicago Conservatory and register.

This is my story. I went down, and I’ll never forget it, it was a Thursday, the third week in October. I come in, “Can I help you?” “Yes, ma’am.m I want to go to school here.” “This is a music school.” “I know.” “What is your background?” “Well, I’ve played in quite a few bands.” The lady laughed her ass off because most of the people that came in here already had a degree in music. She just thought it was a joke, man. And I’m feeling kind of funny here. She hit me with a heavy duty question. “Do you think you could pass an entrance exam?” Now, I’m about to panic, so I felt like, “OK, I’ll take it, but I’m going to go home and study over the weekend and I’m going to come back and I’m going to take it.” She said, “Come with me young man.” I follow her, she take me to a little library section and pulled out the entrance exam. “Oh my God, do I die here?” I looked at it and I began to answer the questions. And God was certainly with me because I did it in record time. So I go back to her and she say, “Oh, you decided not to take it.” I say, “No, no, no, ma’am. I took it.” “But you got some questions on here, where you sight-sing songs and then name them.” “I don’t know the name of the songs but I can sight-sing this to you.” “OK.” One, I sight-sang. Two... She said, “Oh my God!” I made 100 on the entrance exam to the Chicago Conservatory. This was a Thursday. Monday morning I started class. When I got to school Monday morning, everybody in the school knew who I was. Come on man, it’s amazing what God can do, OK?

[applause]

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Did you still have an interest in being a performer? You mentioned The Pieces of Peace, I don’t know if anybody here is familiar with the band, but it really was an important band in the development of Chicago music from that era, from the late ‘60s going into the ‘70s, from the soul era into the funk era. Did you still have an ambition to be a performer yourself or were you more focused on being a composer?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

The Pieces of Peace was an outstanding band, very creative, sick individuals. We were stage and take off all your clothes, we had a strobe light, nobody had a strobe light then. [laughs] Mind you, here it is, even today I never drank, I never smoke, I’ve never been high. But I was with cats who would just get drugged out. I’m following them, whatever they did, “OK, man. Boom.” We were definitely performers.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

[shows photo on screen] That’s the Pieces of Peace right there.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Wow, yeah. I’m the cute one.

[laughter]

So in terms of performing we were definitely performers but we were a very serious session band. We left the country to per se, get ourselves together because we got tired of performing with other people, and we would go on the road with Jackie Wilson and stuff like that because of the record company. “You know we’re going to take these gigs overseas, man, get ourselves together.” It didn’t work that way. We fell out. Totally out. Cats would say, “Yeah, man, when we get back to Chicago don’t call me.” “Don’t call me either, man.” It’s like, “Wait a minute, I’m not from Chicago. What am I going to do?” Well, God had another plan for me. We got back to Chicago.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

You got stranded though?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Basically.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Where did you get stranded?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Coming back to America [we got stranded] in Brussels. [laughs] But I finally got back home, but I had no money or whatever. I had nowhere to go. I could have been back in Brussels it would have been better, but things begin to happen. I began to write, and being the true wonderful person that I am, I call all the Pieces of Peace to play on the sessions. OK? And it just grew and grew and grew, whatever. Now, mind you, I was a copyist back in the day. Donny Hathaway, a lot of people don’t know before the record company found that he could sing, he was an outstanding arranger. Charles Stepney, we know Mr. Stepney mainly from the Earth, Wind & Fire stuff, and Rotary Connection, all the Chess stuff. I’m sorry, Cadillac Records to the young people. Richard Evans, who passed away last week, God bless him, an old cat there, it was all of these cats, Gene Barge, OK? So I was a copyist, man, I was making it that way and I was just learning, learning, learning. So all of a sudden I started arranging. I didn’t have the big record artist like everybody has had. I was dealing with the local stuff, but it was piling up. Oh my God! I was as busy as a one-legged man in a kicking contest. It was happening, man. All of a sudden, now I’m doing major label stuff. It’s happening, and I was a cat that was stranded.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I will play an example of something from that era, and as you said, there’s a lot of records coming out at Chicago at that time. It was very plentiful era as far as independent record companies, independent groups and people pressing up their own things. But just to give folks an idea of the sort of string things Mr. Wright was doing at that time.

(music: The Majestic Arrows – “The Magic of Your Love”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Mystic Magic?

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

It’s the Majestic Arrows.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Majestic Arrows, OK. I can see their producer. I think there’s two, three people in the group and their father had the label. Yeah, he was a bad man, but he loved me.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

It’s funny because you say you got a lot of work, you must have also been held in high esteem, because there’s an album by a group called The Southside Movement that you worked on. And I remember looking on the back before I came out here and speak to you and it says, I don’t remember the exact words, but it says, “Special thanks to Ben Wright and God.” So you got top billing over God. What was up with that?

[laughter]

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Man, OK. They were a self-contained band, maybe like Lakeside or something like that at that time. I did a lot of writing for them. I wrote some of the songs and the whole bit. Their manager, producer, everything, was really the guy who opened the door for me at Chess Records.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Was that Vanleer?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Jimmy Vanleer, yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Did you have ambitions to produce as well?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

In the beginning that didn’t phase me, I just wanted to do music. Then I found that maybe cats was using me up. Because I’m doing the music, I’m in the studio, I’m dealing with their vocals and the whole bit, it’s like, “Yeah, let Benjamin take care of everything. He’s got it.” In a sense, it was good because I was honing my craft, learning how to do everything. Then I started going to the console, and boom, I’m becoming an authority on everything. Even when I would work for the superstar producers I was so in charge, and maybe that’s because of a personality thing, that cats let me do everything. I was not billing for producing, just writing the music. I’m smarter today, thank you.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

So you leave Chicago, you go to LA?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Why?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

The music industry moved to LA We all know that, I think around ‘73 or something, Motown said, “Hey, we’re going to LA” And Chicago was a hub, man. You wanted a record deal? You had to come to Chicago. But that changed, even though when Donny Hathaway left Chicago, I became the man. Had all the work and the whole bit, but the industry was moving West. So, hey man, I moved West.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And you were a music director at that time in addition to working?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Here’s my LA story. In Chicago, I ended up being the music director for The Dells, which was heavy duty and a great learning experience, musically.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What does a music director do?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Well, in those road settings, most times you end up writing the charts for the stage and being supervisor to how the vocals are to be done and the whole bit. Really learning, it was great spot to be in. Conduct the orchestras, the whole bit. I went to LA. What happened, I have grown so, I was being called to LA to do dates. You fly in, fly back. Fly in, fly in back. One particular time, I flew in to LA supposed to do this album, supposed to be there five days. Ten days later I was still there, so I call my then loving wife, “Baby, sell everything. We’re going to move to LA.” “What? You got to be out of your mind.” I couldn’t understand that because my wife had no job. I took care of everything, but I never want to argue. It puzzled me. “OK, no problem.” Went back to Chicago from the airport to the Loop. If you know anything about Chicago, to the Loop. My office was in the Chess Building, 21st Street, tell the secretary, “Hey, I’m out of here.” I get all my stuff off the desk. Mr. Jerry Butler was across the hall, “What’s happening, Ben?” I say, “Hey, man. I’m moving.” He tried to dissuade me from going to LA. I don’t know why, but my mind was made up. I went home to my loving wife, “Hi,” took me about four days to get my stuff together. On the fourth day about 5:00 in the morning, two guys came over. One guy that helped me, one guy who needed a ride to LA, he was a drummer. “So, OK. Hey, man, you drive the truck and I’m going to drive this car.” While moving stuff around it awakened my wonderful wife. And she’s like, “What’s going on? What’s happening?” “I’m moving.” “What do you mean you’re moving?” “Baby, don’t you remember I called you. I said sell everything, we are moving. You hit me with some bullshit. I’m moving.” “What about me?” Then I went into another bag, I can’t use those words in here, and I’m out. That’s it. I went to LA, I had no money. No relatives. It’s crazy. Like pioneers, just get up and go. I got an apartment after about three days and I was coming out of the apartment and somebody says, “Hey, Benjamin.” I looked around and I knew the guy. The guy who’s named Mickey Stevens. For some of the older people, if you look at some of the old Motown stuff, Marvin Gaye, Stevie Wonder, whatever, you see “M. Stevens.” He was a big man. “What are you doing here?” I said, “Man, I just moved here.” “You got to be The Temptations’ music director.” I have no money. No job. Temptations is the hottest thing on the planet and this is how I answered, “Mickey,” I hope the tape don’t break, “I didn’t come out here to be no motherfucking Temptations’ music director.” [laughs] No money, no job whatever. Temptations is the hottest thing in the world. The word got around LA, even before I had a telephone, Benjamin Wright is going to be the Temptations’ music director. I fought that for a month. Finally, a lot of cats was like, “Hey Benjamin, I think this would be good for you to help set yourself up on the West Coast.” I finally did. It was the worst job I ever had at that moment because their former music director, had lost all the music. At that time everybody performed with orchestras. There was not one song in the book that had all the parts to it. I had to take a cassette player of an existing show and start writing. If you can imagine, everything is orchestra. You hear the saxophones playing, and then you had the doubles. It was like, OK, clarinets, flutes, whatever. OK, now the first alto player go to piccolo or whatever, you know, it was a job. It took me about a month and a half to rewrite the book. As God would have it, six months later I was producing The Temptations. So it all worked out.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

It all worked out, yeah.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And you did a little bit more arranging as well?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yes.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Let’s play something and you tell us, I think people might know the song. And you tell us how this happen?

(music: Michael Jackson – “Don’t Stop ’Til You Get Enough”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

[comments over music] I don’t remember that, man. I got to stand up. I got to talk. I got to talk. As you can see I was growing in LA, OK? One day I get this call, “Benjamin Wright?” “Yes?” “It’s Quincy Jones.” “Quincy who?” “This is Quincy Jones.” “Yeah, right. Quincy, who?” “This is Quincy Jones.” Quincy is so big that he halfway understood the impact he would have him with a young cat. So he began talking, “Hey man, Michael Jackson is going to do this solo album and such, and such, and such, and so we would like you being part of it.” I’m still like, “This ain’t no Quincy Jones.” But the cat gave me an address to go to in Bel Air and none of my friends lived in Bel Air. I went to this address, the lady opened the door was his wife. I knew that was his wife, Peggy Lipton, because she had been in the television program. She takes me in to see Q, I’m nervous as hell, and the cat made me feel very comfortable, being talking, talking and talked about Chicago because Q had spent a lot of time in Chicago long before me as Vice President of Mercury Records, Lesley Gore, “It’s my party and I cry...” Everybody know that was Quincy Jones. Being very comfortable or whatever, he gave me a song and he gave me 30 days. I never had 30 days to do anything, OK? Twenty-eight days later, I still hadn’t written anything. I started praying on it and God had a message for me, “You better put some notes on this paper.”

[laughter]

I finally wrote something. I get to the session and I’m very confident guy. Everybody know, Benjamin, he is in charge, man. I get to the session, I’m nervous as hell. I mean, this is Quincy Jones. Somebody says, “Ben?” “Yeah?” It’s Bruce Swedien. “Wow!” Well, Brunswick [Records], you know, I grew up on Bruce [Swedien].

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Bruce was the engineer for the session.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yes. Then Bruce says, “Hey, Q. Ben is here. It’s got to be a piece of cake.” Oh man. I don’t need that, I’m already nervous. We finally get the musicians in order and we start the session. All of a sudden the real Benjamin begin to come through. I’m in charge. “OK, you’re not phrasing correctly.” “Look at bar so and so and so.” “Look at the [chart] markings, please.” “Yeah, come on, come on.” Start playing the music and I can see in the control room Quincy is falling on his knees. I was like, “Oh my God, I really must be messing up.” Because this is the second time I’ve seen him, OK? I said, “Oh my God. OK, what am I going to do?” We finish the take. I very hesitantly walked into the control room because I see Quincy falling out, he’s pissed off. But when I got in there, he wasn’t pissed off. He was screaming. “Damn! This is the shit. Wow! Man!” You know, you don’t think of Quincy Jones like that. I’m still nervous, but finally I really understood he liked what was happening. And that was “Don’t Stop ’Til You Get Enough.” To confirm it, he gave me another song. I think you got that one.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Yeah, we do have that one.

(music: Michael Jackson – “Rock With You”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

[comments over music] I ain’t mad. [laughs]

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

The thing that really is propelling this forward with this strings is this [imitates build up before the chorus] “dadadadananan,” right?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Is that part of the original composition in any way? Is it inspired by something else? Is it inspired by anything else that you heard in the track that they gave you or the music that they gave you?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

No, it’s setting up. I think I’m in the cracks. Based upon what’s happening I had to find my spot, and for all these wonderful music majors, final cadence, I couldn’t go there, I couldn’t put a period on it. “Dadadadadada,” so it’s something behind that. “Dadadadada” but when I go, “Mmmm” that’s a period. Like, “Stop, that’s it and you go back to the beginning.” Other than that, it’s what I’m feeling inside. It seemed like it worked. [laughs]

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Yeah, I think so. Now, you said “blanket” when we got to the verse. We hear the riff you just talked about, and then the punctuation and then you go in to the verse. And when we were listening to it earlier you said “blanket.” What did you mean by that?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

OK. When I have to write footballs like whole notes, I think my voicings are warm. My manager’s right here and he’s heard me say something, you’re coming with something I say, “Hey man, I need to put a blanket around that.” I’m going to make it very warm, so the singer can just soar. I won’t be in his or her way. Just put a blanket around there. I need the contrabasses and the cellis, whatever, and I put the violas real close to the cellis and it’s like warm. That’s what I call it.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And what range are you using the parts of the strings?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

With the contrabasses, a lot of times we will drop them way down, even below the staff. Or, if it’s too muddy there, I’ll split them up, active above. Celli, I don’t do the fifth, I might do the third. Let’s say, if it’s a C major triad I’ll put the celli... We call it the C major #9 per se. I’ll put celli on a B on top of the staff, top of the bass staff. Second celli, first celli I’ll put on a D, so it’s playing a #9 there. Then I will take the viola and put them on the third E. Now, we don’t worry about a clash between the violas and the celli because of the octave there, we’re talking open harmony. Then I’ll take the first violin, drop the G in there. Then I’ll take the first violin put that on the major #7. OK? But the key is I got the first celli playing the D. We call it second, I’m going to call it my #9. Because it’s warm right there.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And you’re also keeping in consideration the dynamic range of where it is the voices coming in to?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Michael’s voice is occupying somewhere, you’re complementing this?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Again, as there is an engineer here so I have to be very careful what I say. I also write taking into consideration who has to mix. In terms of the strings, in terms of the blanket, that’s going to be a given for me. But I have to go back into the rhythm track. A lot of times, to the piano player I might have to say, “Hey man, take the left hand down another octave. It’s too cluttered in there.” Then I have to deal with the guitars, most times it’s two guitars. And most times the guitar players, they don’t care they’re just going to jump right in, right where the piano player is. It’s like, “No, no. Can’t mix that. It’s too cluttered. Open it up. OK, revoice. Give me a second version.” Whatever, so, and so, and so. I got to spread it out. Maybe I’m just looking out for myself because for this space that’s been created, “Hello, here comes my blanket.” So it’s warm and everybody has a region where the mixer can say, “Oh, a piece of cake. It’s easy to mix.”

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

What was Michael’s reaction?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I had met Michael two, three times before. In my session that he showed up at, he had nothing to say. It was Q who was fallen over. Michael is a very mild mannered and then he can become a beast because he’s a perfectionist. I always tell a story about him, I use a comparison. You get a singer come in and, “OK, sing it.” He hit the button and say, “Hey man, can you do that again please?” “Hey man I just did it.” “OK, but just do it again.” “OK, man. How was that?” “Wow! It’s great, man. But I think if we could get one more.” “Hey, man. I ain’t singing this shit no more. I’ve been singing three, four times, man.” “OK, get it.” Now he’s put a bad vibe on the control room. So they say, “No problem. We got it, man. Come on in. Yeah, I knew y’all had it.” “OK.” “Hey man, let me have a few dollars to catch the bus home.” “OK.” Michael Jackson! [sings] “Da-da- da-da-da,” “Mike, that’s it. That’s the shit, man. That’s it.” [imitates Michael] “I want to do one more time.” “OK. Give him another track, Bruce.” “Da-da-di.” [enthusiastically] “That’s it! Yeah!” [imitates Michael] ”No, I think I want to do it one more time.” Two hours later everybody is like, “Oh, Mike. Come on. Damn, man.” But Mike doesn’t have to borrow money to get the bus home. He’s got a billion in his pocket. You know what I’m saying? You see the attitude. Somebody who really wants to make it. I used to do stuff on Paul Anka. Paul Anka got two Learjets.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

He got that Tonight Show money.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah, hello, for what? Forty-some years,six nights a week. “Dada-dadada” Come on what’s that? Maybe about 10, 12 million year? But he would stand there all night. No problem. I learned, in case one day I get some money, I’ll do it all night. Whatever. So that’s something for a lot people to pay attention to because it’s the attitude and willingness to have it perfect. As perfect as it can be.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I know you said with “Don’t Stop ’Til You Get Enough” you focused, did a little praying and then the notes came out, but I think there was a little bit more than divine intervention involved in that, right? That’s the signature riff in the song more or less. That’s the thing, again, as soon as you hear it, that’s what you remember. And you can go back and listen to Off The Wall, there’s like a deluxe edition that has the demo version. It doesn’t have the strings. And it’s a different type of feeling, obviously. What are you thinking when you come up with that?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I got a deadline. [laughs] That was it. That was it. When you get that kind of assignment you say, Quincy Jones, what are you going to write? The man has bunch of Grammys, movies, everything. He was an arranger. What do you write? I was scared. I guess he scared the shit out of me, so that’s all came out.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Alright. Let’s listen to this. This is another track that you did the strings and horns for which I think people would know.

(music: Earth, Wind & Fire – “Boogie Wonderland”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

[comments over music] I got to stop you. OK. I love cartoons. If you go back to the old cartoons, the music was happening, man. They captured everything. The little birds, the worms, the bears, whatever.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK, so cartoons played a role in that?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Oh yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Obviously, some timpani in here.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

That was your thing, that’s back to your roots?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

That’s what brought this whole thing on. This song was not for Earth, Wind & Fire, this was for a group called the Curtis Brothers, Al McKay, the then guitarist for the Fire was producing The Curtis Brothers. Now, Maurice called me, “Hey man...”

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Maurice White.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Maurice White. I’m quoting, “Hey, man Al fucked up a lot of money, we ain’t got no hit. Can you do something with this, you know how to do those timpanis and stuff, man?” “Yeah, no problem.” It was a big session. All of the heads from the record company or whatever, plus I used about 50 men.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

This is 50 pieces.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Full orchestra?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah. This brings on another thing too because we set up with the engineer. Strings first, “OK, guys. We need to run this down so the engineers can get the levels. OK? Start playing.” We play straight through, first time. Maurice comes out of the control room, “Hey, man. That’s it.” Now, my immediate thinking is I’ve must have done something wrong because we just running it down to get levels. I’m like, “What’s up?” “No, that’s it.” “That’s it?” “Yeah, man. That’s it.” “OK, get the strings out here. Bring the horn players in.” “What the hell is going on here? Get the horn players in.” Play. We did several takes, I wasn’t happy with how things were being phrased, but my mind is still in those string players. Little did I know he was happy. One take. And I’m thinking, “We’re just playing it down to get the levels.” Now, today, sold a billion records. I’m still pissed off about the strings.

[laughter]

It brings on another term. You have producers, and you have reducers. Let me say that again. Some guys are producers, some guys are reducers. Maurice White made a producers call. However it felt to him and the whole bit, that’s it. And it worked. So, I ain’t really mad.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

But what would you have changed? We all just listened to this. What is bothering you in this particular take that you would have done differently?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I’m a strickler, especially at that time. It wasn’t technology then, so nobody knew what was on the paper, but me. Nobody knows what it is supposed to feel like, but me. When the phrasing is not what I feel it should be, then we do it over. At least let me talk it through, “Hey guys, I need you to do such and such, so on, so on, so, bar so-and-so, or whatever.” This was a run down. You cat accepted a run down. I guess he knows more about it than me.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I think it’s sounds OK.

[laughter]

Did you notice at a certain point as music changed that people were not using the big orchestras the way they were?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

My pocket noticed it first.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

How did you adjust?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I really didn’t make any adjustments. I looked at it this way. As everybody in this room knows, all the music in the world come from five lines and four spaces. Some people call it jazz. Some call it rock & roll. Some call it gospel. Whatever. Hip-hop. It’s not but 12 notes in the whole universe.

I didn’t feel that I need to change anything. I wrote the same way. It’s the record companies that stopped. I don’t know if you guys remember, I think in the early ‘80s, Capital Records signed an act called The Knack ... and they recorded in the garage. Capitol paid 40 grand for the album.

Back at that time, I thought I was somebody because all my albums, whatever I was working on, I had a half million dollar budget. Well, wait a minute. This rock & roll thing sold through the roof, for 40 grand. OK, no more big budgets. I died, you know, but you still had some artists who stick to the real deal.

One of the artists that we talk about – I’ll give you a story about this young man right here, this is... Can you stand up a minute, sir?

[applause]

This my manager. Young fellow. Cute, too.

But there’s another story involved. This is also my godson. You know, I have to tell it all. This is the cat that used to run around the house with my other children. His father died when he was 10, 11 years old. So he became my son, OK? Now with him running around the house, break dancing with all the other kids, falling on their heads and stuff, went to college. He never paid any attention to what I did, until he went to college. You need to tell this, please.

Went to college. Do take it from the college.

Audience Member

I went to college. I’m not as animated. I didn’t go to college and dance and fly and all these things. But I had a cover band, and we were covering a lot of N.E.R.D. songs. I love N.E.R.D., but I had a bunch of guys in the band that I put together who love soul and funk, so we would start doing some older covers. Then we would also find some stuff in between, so one of the guys was a big Raphael Saadiq fan. He’s worked a lot with Raphael. One of the songs he did was the one with D’Angelo, “Be Here.”

There’s a lot of strings in there. It’s like [imitates strings] I was like, “It’s clean. Who did that?” I’m going through the credits. I’m like, “Nah, that was crazy. Nah, that’s not him.” So I look up, looking at all these credits. I’m like, “Earth, Wind and Fire. Michael Jackson. Gladys Knight.”

I called my mom first, like, “Mom, is that that lady, Gladys, that we were always hanging out with? Was that Gladys?”

[laughter]

She was like, “Yeah, Jamal.” I was like, “OK, I’m gonna call you back.”

Call Mr. Wright. He’s like, “How’s Jamal. How’s the band going?” “The band’s doing great. We’re doing some great covers. You know, it’s a lot of fun. I’ll send you something one of these days. Working on a song right now, though. I think do you... do you work in music?”

[laughter]

I was like, “These strings...” He was like, “Yeah, man.” I was like, “You work with the artists? Like you’re actually in it?” He was like, “Yeah, man.”

I’m seeing the credit on Earth, Wind and Fire. He’s like, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was me.” I’m like, “Micheal Jackson?” He’s like, “Dude, you don’t see that there’s a big old plaque when you walk in my door?” I was like, “I ...”

[laughter/applause]

Benjamin Wright Jr.

That’s amazing, because I thought he was joking. So I’m laughing my butt off, but he was really serious. Now, like I say, he’s been playing in the house since he was a little kid, and there are plaques all over the house.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

It wasn’t a secret then, yeah.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

But dealing with Raphael Saadiq is one of the cats who’s like, “I don’t care what these new cats are doing, whatever. I want live strings.” Justin Timberlake is like, “I want live stuff.” So there’ve been some cats along the line who still insist on live music. Praise God. I couldn’t eat.

Jeff Mao

This is one of the people from that era as well who wanted live music.

(music: Outkast – “The Love Below (Intro)” / applause)

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

OK, so what happened when Andre Benjamin met Benjamin Wright?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I got a call. Cat saying, “Sir, my name is Andre Benjamin, and it was suggested that I come see you.” And he was a nice guy. I said, “Come on over.” I had no idea who Andre Benjamin was. I did not know who Outkast was. I knew some songs they did, because there’s one I really love. [sings “Ms. Jackson“] I love that. But I didn’t know who that was.

So the cat comes over. I have daughters and granddaughters. So all of a sudden, it sounded like it was a traffic accident. [screams] I was like “Hey, what the hell is going on in there?” “It’s Andre Benjamin!” “Who in the fuck is Andre Benjamin?” At this time, the cat is coming through, just about in my studio. He says, “How are you doing Mr. Wright, I’m Andre Benjamin.” Oh shit, OK. “Well hey man, I’m Benjamin.” And it seemed like I was much older, so I had seniority. So that fixed that, okay? So then he says, “Hey man, I was suggested that I come see you, and I know about your work and the whole bit, and I want to do this thing,” and he uses this term, “like Frank Sinatra.” So I took an old man attitude. “Kid, you don’t know nothing about Frank Sinatra.”

So this is what he had. [sings] “Some say Atlanta, some say New York.” And I’m waiting for the rest of it. It never came. I’m thinking, “What you want me to do here?” He said, “Well, I thought you could...” And this is the mistake I made. And you guys can really check into this. I completed the song. I did not ask for songwriters. I did not. I didn’t have him in my life at the time, OK? I was just happy to complete something. Not knowing who Outkast was until they sold a billion records? Now, I’m mad as hell.

But, it was very interesting and I’m going to expose Mr. Benjamin. There’s no drums on this, just strings, piano, and timpanis and vibes. We get to the studio, I say “Andre, I need you to sing, because this is rubato, I have to conduct this.” He says “Where?” And that was startling to me. It’s like “We’re in a studio man, right here.” He said “I can’t sing in there with those musicians. Those are pro musicians.” “Hey man, what’s wrong with that?” “What’s wrong? I can’t sing with them.” “Andre, this is rubato, I need your vocals to be able to conduct this.” So what we had to do is set up a booth on the side, turn the lights out, for this already superstar, who has been signing in front of millions of people, but punked out in the studio with me.

Because most hip-hoppers, per se, never even saw a real live session. It’s mainly control room stuff. But with a room full of musicians... You can’t fight the results, you can’t fight the results. So I was very happy about that piece of music, and I think that’s the intro on the Love Below. So I’m happy with that.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

Let’s have a little empathy though, you said you were scared in the studio once before though.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah, but ... I was just scared of Quincy Jones. [laughs] I was very confident about the music, but for somebody that huge, I had never been in his presence other than the meeting. But I finally understood. I did a Snoop Dogg session. And Snoop had never saw that. One rapper I work with, who’s very hip, very musical, and engineer hip. DJ Quik. That’s a bad man, bad man.

Jeff Mao

Do you have a different approach when it comes to doing a rap record? I mean that Outkast record is obviously kind of an unconventional rap record.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I did a big orchestra thing on Quik, you got that?

Jeff Mao

Yes we do.

(music: DJ Quik feat. Mausberg & Raphael Saadiq – “Well”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

[comments over music] It’s nasty man.

[applause]

Jeff Mao

So that’s another full orchestra. Full orchestra?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Well we had big strings, big strings, and I used flutes.

Jeff Mao

How many pieces, do you recall?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I think on that particular date, we had like ... I think 12? Five, six, and two. 12 violins, five violas, six chellies, and two contrabasses. Two flutes.

Jeff Mao

Even when things slowed down, did you ever have the urge to do something different, not employ 12 pieces every time?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

No.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

And why not?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I’ve missed a lot of gigs, and it’s not an attitude situation. It’s quite insulting for the record company to say, “Well, can you just use 10 guys?” No, I can’t use 10 guys. Call the guy down the street. I can’t do that. Where I’m coming from – until I hired my godson to be in charge, I never had a manager or an agent. All of my work has been my calling card, and God has really blessed me to do a lot of work. When you ask for 10 strings, I can’t give you what you heard, that you want on your project. Now that’s a bold step, because I have 900 children. It’s an economic thing.

But you have to stand for something, OK? And I’ve made that decision many, many times. And then you get, “Well you can double them or what ever.” No, no. Those of you who know, you double 10, you don’t get 20. You got double that first 10. And that’s not like 20 players bowing. We can do certain things, even with technology and the whole bit. But when you talk about the live thing, that’s the real thing. For those who are really, let’s say, concerned about the sound, you have to have it. Now, I do a trick with my writing, I do some doubling and the whole bit. I don’t want to expose myself, but I write additional parts. So I can possibly take 20 strings, and with my additional parts or whatever, it might sound like 40, 50 guys. But I like to think that’s my personal trick.

Jeff Mao

Why have you been so compatible with Justin Timberlake? You’ve worked on all three of his albums.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

OK. The first album, the record company called me. Justin was new, in terms of solo, so it was like, “We want to make him a Michael Jackson.” So my references were Off the Wall, call that guy. It went very well, OK? Second record, Justin Timberlake calls. OK, I’m honored. I think I did a couple hits on that, OK? So things are slow, Justin is doing movies. LA is slow, nobody is calling Benjamin. I think they’re going in alphabetical order. You know I’m a W, so it takes a while to get to me.

I was complaining. “Man, even Justin Timberlake doesn’t love me anymore,” whatever. So I get a call, from Justin’s camp. Cat’s talking fast, like something had happened. “Mr. Wright. Justin Timberlake wants you in the studio this afternoon...” “Hey man, I’m in Detroit.” Sometimes I go out with Earth, Wind, and Fire when they are performing with symphony orchestras. So I go out and conduct. “Oh hey man, I’m tied up.” “Well when you be back sir?” I was like “Well, OK. I’ll be back Monday.” “Well can you come in Monday morning?” “Yes,sir!”

So that Monday morning I go to the studio, 9 AM. Bunch of young cats, Justin and Timbaland, the young people, man. So I come in talking smack. “Even Justin Timberlake doesn’t love me anymore, nobody cares about old people.” Young cats are cracking up man. And Justin stepped forward. You know he always had a little hat on, so he took it off. He said, “Mr. Wright, let me see if I got this right.” He said, “You worked on my first album, right?” “Yes.” He said, “You worked on the second album.” “Yes.” He said, “Mr. Wright, this is the third album, and you’re here.” “OK. Fuck it, man. Let’s go to work.”

Now, when we started this album, he played some stuff, and I was very intrigued over it. I told a few people, as I begin to write, I say, “I got a feeling that some of the stuff I’m writing might have an impact on the industry.” It did that. Let’s give Justin a hand.

[applause]

It’s amazing. I’ve been blessed for cats to just trust me, in terms of whatever I feel. As you finish a take with Justin, in terms of my experiences, he’s the boss ... “So, what do you think?” He says, “Mr. Wright, it’s crazy.” I don’t know where he gets this shit from, but it’s cool. I ain’t mad.

Jeff Mao

This particular album is very ambitious. Your writing really is, in some ways, the bridge between some of the tracks within the tracks. There really are multiple parts to different songs. It’s not so much the three minute pop song format of some of the other recordings. When you put on the album, the first thing you’re gonna hear is this.

(music: Justin Timberlake – “Pusher Love Girl”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

[comments over music] Yeah. I did that. That’s heavy. Valley, man.

Jeff Mao

So, how much was your writing integrated into the recording process? Where did you put your parts? Was everything already conceived as this seven-minute piece of music –

Benjamin Wright Jr.

That intro was not the original intro. I wrote that in the song. When Justin heard that, he says, “No, this is how it’s gotta start.” I ain’t mad, but unfortunately I don’t have the basic rhythm tracks, which were not completed at the time. It was like demos. As usual, I have full range to just do what I hear.

Jeff Mao

Does anybody have a question for Mr. Wright? Please wait for the microphone.

Audience Member

Hi. How are you doing?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

How are you doing?

Audience Member

Great. Great to meet you, and great to see you. Thank you for being here.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Thank you, sir.

Audience Member

You had mentioned SOLAR at the beginning. If you could, if you have any stories of Leon Sylvers, or working with any of those guys back in the day ... If you were the arranger on Love Is Where You Find It by The Whisperers.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I think I did that.

Audience Member

That’s an incredible album.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Wow. OK. Most of the stuff I did for SOLAR, Leon Sylvers was involved. Leon was, still is, an incredible producer. He’s a music man, as well, because most of that stuff, he played bass on. He was another guy who just felt, “Give it to Benjamin.” He has never uttered one word to me in terms of what to do. There was never a question in that day about the budget. Whatever I felt, that was it.

The cat is so laid back. I have to feel that he was satisfied with what I was doing, because he’d never comment. It was like, “That’s great, man. That’s great.” That’s it. Now, we hear stories sometimes where producers are going off on their arrangers, “What the hell are you doing?” Thank you Lord, I’ve never had that. I’ve never had to change anything on a session. The Lord looks out for me.

Audience Member

Right on, man. Thank you.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Thank you.

Jeff Mao

Anyone else with a question?

[applause]

Audience Member

Thank you very much for being here. You talk a lot about being blessed with people coming to you, and I just wondered if there was anyone that you had ever chased to work with, that you had in your sights.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

There’s a cat standing back there on the wall, a very distinguished gentleman. I think he has a Justin Timberlake suit and tie on. Could you stand up? OK. He does heavy duty stuff. I am hoping maybe you can help influence him. I wish to submit an application to work with him. I’m trying to get my little resume together. He lives approximately 20 blocks from my house. I don’t wish to use email or anything like that. I’m gonna take my shit over to his house. You guys look out for me. Put a word in for me before you leave. OK. Thank you so much.

[laughter / applause]

Audience Member

Hello. Thank you very much for your lecture. I’ve been wondering a lot, because I am a DJ, so I’ve been wondering a lot what was your perception of the work of people like Walter Gibbons, or Larry Levan, who were essentially taking out arrangements, and stretching out the rhythm parts in the disco music ... You would somehow ended up doing the arrangement, and they were taking it out. What was your perception of this process in those days?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

We hated you. [laughs] They created a whole other world for you, and they call it “remix.” It’s like, “What the hell is a remix? We’ve already done this stuff.” I have two sons that are DJs. One kinda backed off, because he has a wife and kids now, and one is still going all over the world. He performs with a group called Next. He had done a mixtape. I’m old school. Mixtape. “Hey dad, check out my mixtape.” “OK. Yeah.” Finished it, and I said, “Son, you got about six songs in this mixtape that I did. How am I gonna get paid?” Cats create their own world with that. I’m not mad, because like I said, I have two sons who are DJs, so I understand, and I encourage them. But y’all did take the work away from us. No, man. Keep doing what you’re doing.

[applause]

Yes, sir?

Audience Member

We’re out here, we had Dave Smith here yesterday, and we’re in Japan, land of Roland, how has MIDI impacted your life? What happened when it dropped, and how has it created an ease in your workflow, because of your ability to kind of omit the copyist, so to speak?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

OK. You hit on something very heavy. This afternoon, I walked into this wonderful place called Red Bull ...

Jeff Mao

Music Academy.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Music Academy. [laughs] And they made me feel this small, man. I was like, “What’s up?” Where is he? Where is he? One of the gentlemen that worked with me today, says, “I haven’t dealt with MIDI for 15 years.” I felt so small, man. However, since I’m 70 years old, when MIDI came out... I think you’ve witnessed one of the guys with sequential circuits, and whatever was the beginning of MIDI ...

Now, I know MIDI from a standpoint of Yamaha. I think he worked with Yamaha. Back in the day, the Roland situation... I’m gonna drop a name that nobody mentions that started in LA, Tom Beckman started Roland. All these other names came later. Roland had DCB, which was I think the Juno-6, that could only speak to one other instrument. Out, in, and then stop right there. Then, immediately after that, Yamaha came with MIDI. It was a savior for me, as an arranger.

Today, my studio is set up with tons of outboard MIDI stuff. So, when I go to write, I turn on everything, and my strings, everything is just laid out. When I got to Red Bull today, they said, “Mr. Wright, you’re so nostalgic. Everything is in the computer. You don’t have to deal with MIDI, you can just go audio.” That’s fine. I’ve got the Mac, Logic 10, Pro Tools 11 – I got all of that, but I do have two-inch machines, thank you. I got all the latest stuff, but I’m most comfortable with the older stuff.

Now, in terms of Logic, I was a Logic endorser from way back. Sibelius, when it came out, I think I was one of the first endorsers. I know this stuff. I’ll even go further back, New England Digital, the Synclav, I was one of those musicians that were picking their brains. A lot of us didn’t know what was happening, how the engineers were really using us to put that stuff together, and the whole bit. I go back to the early days, the inception of all of the synths. I know them, and I still have a lot of them.

In terms of how MIDI dealt with the copyist... We had MIDI a long time before we had workable notation software. Some of the early stuff was... Jim Miller Personal Composer. It never really worked. Jim didn’t have the bank to keep developing. He passed away. God bless him.

A lot of cats don’t know, even today, that Logic is a tremendous notation software, and that’s what I use. I have Finale, I have Sibelius, and the new stuff that PreSonus is dealing with. I’ve got all that stuff. My preference is still the old Logic.

It hurt a lot of cats, in terms of copying, especially now. It took quite a few years for it to halfway come together, because the notation software – all of it – still speaks more of a machine language. You have to be some kind of musician to go in and edit it for the player. It can fool you. It sounds right, but it doesn’t look right. You have to go in and edit it for the players. Please edit it for the players. If not, the session is gonna kick your butt time-wise.

You had a question?

Audience Member

Check, check. Yes? So, obviously you’re talking about how you’re filling in the missing pieces for a song the producer already wrote, and that you’re writing the string parts, and whatever parts that are missing. You’re talking about being blessed that you never had to change anything after that, which is great, but I was thinking ... Do you ever have the feeling that something else in a song needed to change for you to do your job correctly?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Well, yes. You have to be very tactful about that. You can’t let the boss know he’s jacking up. Sometimes, I will make a suggestion, “Hey man, check out so-and-so.” A lot of times you would get something... It may be a C bass note in the piano part, but you go through some of the other rhythm parts, and they’re playing a D there, and it’s a clash. So, I have to say, “Hey man, what do you want?”

Sometimes, I get, “Damn, you hear everything.” “Yes. I have to take it apart.” In those kinds of situations, I get a clarification. So, I’m being slick too, because I’m pointing out that something is suspect. I have to do that, because once you take it, then everything is your fault. So, I’m very careful. I take every bar – every bar, there has to be a clarification, because now I’m about to roll. I don’t need to be stopping myself to try to figure out what this is. It’s not negative, it’s just getting a clarification.

Audience Member

Thank you.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yes, sir?

Audience Member

Thank you very much.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yes.

Audience Member

Out of curiosity, did you work with The Brothers Johnson?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I never worked with The Brothers Johnson. I worked with Louis [E. Johnson]. Louis is a giant. My best friend, Wayne Vaughn, who wrote “Let’s Groove Tonight,” was the keyboardist with The Brothers Johnson. The funny thing about it, Wayne is a jazz pianist. I’d be like, “How in the hell did you write ‘Let’s Groove Tonight,’ man? There ain’t no jazz in that.” With The Brothers Johnson, they weren’t playing no jazz, they were funking. Everything they did was funk. If I picked up the record, I’d have to put something over my nose, there’s so much funk in it... But, Louis is a giant. Louis is a giant.

Anybody else? Yes?

Jeff Mao

Let’s pass the mic, please.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

No, don’t give the mic to him. [laughs]

Audience Member

Thank you very much for being here, Mr. Wright.

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Yeah.

Audience Member

I’m thankful for that. I have a couple of questions. First is, you growing up in the delta of Mississippi. Listen to some records, you know, Robert Jones, Son House, stuff, and your original was so colorful, when the bluesy anatomic music – how has blues influenced your music? That’s my question, how it worked for you in that way, and the other question is how was working with DJ Quik?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Being from where I’m from, I was to aware as a kid, around the blues and whatever, how I was hearing things. It wasn’t along the line of blues, even though I stand up and say hey man, I know blues, okay, I really know blues, shuffles and the whole bit. I know blues. Okay. But being in the high school band exposed me to other kind of stuff. I was singing in the choir at school too, because that was my thing, a singer. And the choir director took us to Tougaloo College to see a performance of “The Messiah.” We didn’t have TV and whatever. So I went to see this “Messiah,” and it was a full orchestra, and I was like wow. And that was one of the things that helped change my life, that full orchestra. I was just totally mesmerized. I was in the choir, and that led me to join the band. I end up playing in “The Messiah,” I was a timpani player.

Before I answer the other question let me tell you about “The Messiah.” I have to roll forward 30 or 40 years. There’s a big church in LA called Faithful Central. Big black church that took over the LA Forum where the Lakers used to play ball. Big church. They called me in to do their Easter program. So I come in with a 60 piece orchestra and they hit me, first year, with “The Messiah.” It’s like, I ain’t going to write that. Order the score. They ordered the score. “The Messiah” is basically for a chamber orchestra. George Frederick Handel. They bring the score, I think, whoa, we’ve got problems here. That score is in Italian. I ain’t speak no Italian. Some of the instruments have got Italian names. But from a technical standpoint, all the trumpets is written for D trumpets. You know anybody got a D trumpet? Ain’t nobody got no more D trumpets. Back in that day, trumpets didn’t have valves, they made trumpets in the key of whatever, OK? So that’s my first problem – D trumpets.

All of the trombone parts are written in tenor clef. If there are any trombone players in here you know you play mainly from bass clef. Especially something fast! It’s tenor clef, it’s a moveable clef. Think, who in the hell is going to play this?

OK, problem number two. The french horn part in “The Messiah,” the original thing, has no key signature. I think, ‘I ain’t writing this!’ I end up having to basically transpose certain instruments, put the trombone parts in bass clef. It’s easy to create the key signature for the french horns and the whole. So, excuse the expression, “Messiah” kicked my ass! It was much more work than what I wanted to deal with, but most people don’t have to deal with that, you know what I’m saying? And then I had to do it for a full orchestra, and it’s not written for full orchestra, OK?

DJ Quik. The term quicks mean fast anyway, you know what I’m saying? DJ Quik was a delight, because he’s a music person. He’s one of the rappers that don’t use live music, you know? I know he does the other stuff too, but he actually uses guitar, bass, drums, keyboards. And he’s good, he’s very good, I applaud him. Any more questions?

Yes ma’am? OK, wait a minute, say that on the mic I need to hear –

Audience Member

I said it’s such an honor and it’s so great to hear you speak, so –

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Thank you.

Audience Member

Thank you for being here. You’ve said that ... I mean it’s obvious that you love your work and love what you’ve done and I think that’s really great to see because a lot of artists are self-loathing and always questioning their stuff and their work, and never happy with anything. I was wondering if you were always that way or that was something that you had to develop, or was there a turning point where you were like, yeah I really like this stuff that I’ve done. Or is that just your personality?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Why you go font me off like that? OK. I love what I do. It’s not a job because I love it, OK. It’s the creative process. The thing that has happened to me over the years is that it’s a business, and I never looked at it that way. It’s what I wanted to do and I just think it’s magic somebody gives you something that’s so raw and you put all this stuff in it, and you hear it coming over the radio, it’s like, I would have done that, oh. Wait a minute I did that! It’s a joy... I’m still having fun. Please forgive me I have to just say it again, I’m damned near 100 years old and I’m still having fun. I enjoy the music, I enjoy being creative and I get a piece of music and I just can’t [inaudible] from my mind because sometimes you say, “Mr Wright, could you just shut up.” Because it’s like, ‘Yeah, man I could do this or I could do that yeah, yeah, yeah and I... yeah, yeah.” So I’m still a baby.

I love what I do, and most of the music ... wait a minute I got a couple cats in here who – I recently participated in something for the queen, Miss Aretha Franklin, I used to be her music director as well. And, it’s not that I disagreed but one particular artist was producing something and I just felt that it wasn’t her. But my work was good. I like it. I don’t know how everybody feels about it and that record is yet to come out. So, sometimes those things happen but I got to tell you, I can’t give you in an itemized list of things that I didn’t like. I’m happy with the music. I still love the music.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

I have a question for you. Do you... over here on the couch –

Benjamin Wright Jr.

What couch?

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

So you had some, you enjoyed some –

Benjamin Wright Jr.

We got history in New York so, hey, no problem.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

True, true indeed. So you have a little history of songwriting, which we actually didn’t talk about, but did you ... I can play the song, but I wanted to ask you, did you have ambition to continue songwriting and not just composition and arranging? Because you enjoyed a little bit of success you could say, with that song?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

I know what you’re talking about. Here’s the thing. I never aspired to be a songwriter. The thing is, there were things that I would be producing and not feel comfortable with the songs and you say, “Hey, send me some songs, send me some songs.” Songs, songs, songs and... they all come, whack. So, time is running out, you say well I’ve got to write something. And that forced me to write certain songs. Now, I think the song you might have... why don’t you play it and we’ll see.

(music: Quincy Jones & James Ingram – “One Hundred Ways”)

Benjamin Wright Jr.

[comments over music] It’s paying my rent today thank you. This is dedicated to all of the ladies in the house.

Can I talk? Let me give you a little story. I’m not going to take up much of your time. I was producing an act for Arista Records called Chuck Cissel. Nobody remembers Chuck any more. So, the new Vice President of Arista Records was a guy called Larkin Arnold, came over from Capitol Records. I had to bring in these songs, he wanted these songs for this album. So two songwriting partners of mine a cat named Tony Coleman, young cat who always stressed that he wanted to write, and Cathy Wakefield, an old veteran. “Cathy, this cat is very talented.” “OK, Benjamin, bring him.” So we stayed up all night long to prepare four songs or this meeting. About 5, 6 AM. I put the vocals down for this. I felt very good about it. Drove to Century City in LA for the meeting at 10 AM, speed up, no problem.

The Vice President, who was my friend, listened, finally our fourth song, and this is what he said – I don’t want to be censored here because I’m just quoting. “What the fuck is this?” And I’m like, these are the songs. He said to me, “This is some bullshit.” Wow. Wait a minute, we worked all night long to prepare this, you can’t say this is some bullshit. I felt like an escargot, I could have just crawled right under the door. I think I did. I drove home, just hurt. When I got home, the phone rang. It was a very familiar voice. “Hey Benjamin, this is Quincy Jones.” “Hey, man, what’s happening?” “I’m producing George Benson, and I’ve been through 400 songs, and I don’t hear anything, you got anything man?” What I just went through? “No. I got nothing.” “Man, I know you’ve got something.”

After a little probing, I say, “OK, I’ve got a song I’m going to bring over to you. I took the song to Q’s house. Peggy comes out and sayd, “Oh, come on Benjamin...” I said, “No, no, no, no, just give him this.” [pretends to hold a CD] I didn’t want to hear no reaction or whatever because I just got beat up. I go home, two or three hours later there’s message on the answering machine. “Benjamin” – I’m quoting – “this is a motherfucker!” Wow. Q must be tripping. He’s got somebody else’s tape and thinks that’s the one I brought. But it was the right one. So, Quincy Jones got the song on George Benson for the album Give me the Night. Hey, I’m happy, because George is selling platinum. I know I’m going to make some money. But just before the album was to come out, Q calls and says, “Hey man, we’ve got to take it off George’s album. But I’m going to put it on my album. Quincy Jones album.” “Quincy you ain’t going to sell no records. All your jazz stuff, come on man. I’m going to make some money with George.” No, weren’t hearing it.

So I took a negative attitude about it. “I’ll give it to somebody else.” Nobody else heard it. Nobody wanted to touch it. I finally just gave up, okay, whatever. Well, it was put on Quincy Jones’ album. Not to get into the mechanics of it, but this was a throwaway album because Quincy owed A&M an album. When Quincy’s album came out, first tune [sings]. Flop. Second song [sings]. Flop. Third single [sings]. Wow, what a song! Yeah. Just killed the charts. The phone rings. “Benjamin, you got the next single, man.” Yeah, OK. I wasn’t enthusiastic at all. This is what happened. Quincy’s album, The Dude, was number 122 on the Billboard charts. “Find One Hundred Ways” dropped, and in two weeks Quincy’s album was number two. Thank you very much.

[applause]

That was in ‘79, I believe. And ladies and gentleman I am so proud to say that in the year 2014 the checks are still coming in! [laughs] Thank you.

Jeff “Chairman” Mao

But no more songwriting?

Benjamin Wright Jr.

Well, you know what, I would love to do more songwriting but what had happened to me, I got so busy with arranging jobs it took me away from songwriting. But now that I’m old an unemployed, I’m going to be writing songs every day.