Benny Sings
Tim van Berkestijn was born in 1977, the year that the Brothers Johnson’s version of “Strawberry Letter 23” went to #1 and Chet Baker released “Autumn Leaves” and “Far Away” (with Astrud Gilberto). Tim’s parents were hip to all of it, not forgetting the Carpenters. Little did they know that 27 years later, their son would come full circle and reinvent himself as Benny Sings to debut his own version of incandescent pop in major keys: Lush, swinging, hip-hop-influenced neo-soul with a singer-songwriter edge and a six-piece band for live shows. As he told us at the 2004 Red Bull Music Academy, he first experimented with electronic breakbeats and his faithful guitar before learning that the key to a powerful piece is to make every note count.
Hosted by Torsten Schmidt Some of the people coming here tell you exactly the opposite thing than the one who was coming earlier and we like it that way 'cause we don’t believe in some ultimate or absolute kind of truth, but what we do believe in is people. It’s not only because his debut album, I guess, Champagne People is one of the rather overlooked ones you will be playing and seeing on a lot of end of the year lists anyway. It’s a pleasure to welcome our Tim here. He also goes by the name Benny Sings. Let’s give the man a hand. [applause] Benny Sings Thank you and welcome. Shall I play something? Torsten Schmidt That’s probably a good way to get a common crowd here because that’s the other beauty of this thing as well. There’s people, you type their name in Google and you will never stop reading about them. You’ve seen some of them in the last couple of days. Then there’s other people who are at the beginning of their journey and we like to have them here as well. You never know what comes out of it somewhere in the next 40 decades or what not. Yeah, but the music is probably one thing that establishes that common crowd. That’s why we should probably play something, to get everyone... Benny Sings Alright, well I’m going to be playing a song on my new album. It’s not mastered yet, but let’s see which one I would like. (music: Benny Sings - "So Light") Torsten Schmidt You’re wearing a red jumper to not make people realize when you’re blushing. Benny Sings Am I blushing right now? Torsten Schmidt Not really, but it’s probably one of these things when you talk about emotions and feelings in songs, that you have to overcome certain barriers? Or is it just a given for you to be “Hey, here I am. This is my heart.” Benny Sings Well, not at this moment, but in music yes. The music is quite shameless I think. I’m not trying to be something I’m not. It’s me. Not me trying to be cool or trying to be hip-hop or trying to be intellectual or trying to be... It’s just... Torsten Schmidt By being you you’re totally exposing yourself. You’re making yourself vulnerable. Benny Sings Yeah. Torsten Schmidt You let your guard down. Benny Sings Yes, yes. Torsten Schmidt A lot of people are really afraid of that. Benny Sings Yes and a lot of people are not aware of the fact that they are afraid of that. I think a lot of people in this area of music which we make are thinking that they are making music that is very close to their heart. I think still it’s a somewhat covered way, kind of macho kind of a thing going on still even here. That’s what I’m trying to break with my music. Torsten Schmidt That’s, I don’t know... Probably starting to talk about influences helps a great deal to explain where that’s coming from. Can you remember any lines of songs or melody bits? What were things that really stuck in your head if you think about music when you were growing up? Benny Sings There’s actually one record so clear to me and I was listening to it when I was four. It was Billy Preston & Syreeta It Will Come in Time. I don’t know if this rings a bell to you. Torsten Schmidt Maybe give those who don’t get struck by the bell an idea of what it is? Benny Sings [sings] “It will come in time you just be patient.” It’s like this really cozy song. I think this is really where my basis lies in music. Cozy kind of soul music. Torsten Schmidt Cozy. Benny Sings Cozy. Yeah. Torsten Schmidt Did you ever watch Fame? Benny Sings I don’t know. I was too young a bit I think. I like the tune from Fame. Torsten Schmidt OK, so it doesn’t make sense to ask you who was your favorite character. Benny Sings No. Which would you think? Torsten Schmidt I was thinking about it earlier and I wasn’t too sure at all. I mean everyone loved... [re-adjusts microphone] First you tell me left, then you tell me right. Like this? Audience member Yeah, that’s good. Torsten Schmidt Anyway, that was a bit of an interlude. Skip, next trick. After that? Four is quite early. Benny Sings I think Stevie Wonder and... Torsten Schmidt Hang on, Stevie Wonder back then was a lot more about... The song I won't name which destroyed a lot of Stevie Wonder. Did you get to know the real Stevie Wonder or the "Happy Birthday" one? Or the "I Just Called To Say I Love You" one? Benny Sings They’re both Stevie Wonder. There’s no real Stevie Wonder. There’s one Stevie Wonder. "I Just Called To Say I Love You" is the same as [inaudible] and everything else. Torsten Schmidt It’s the same, but it’s different production maybe. Benny Sings It’s different production and it’s a different time, but the song writing skills are always there. Torsten Schmidt There’s actually quite a good song on the backside of "Woman in Red." Benny Sings I don’t know. Torsten Schmidt What’s it called? "Love Light In Flight" or something? I love it. We should talk later? Stevie Wonder. What did you like about him then? Benny Sings Again, it’s this feel-good feeling without getting fake or something. Torsten Schmidt Feeling good without the euphoria bit in there. “Hey, look at me.” Benny Sings Yeah, just you can feel that the things he makes he really likes too. It’s primarily about music and it’s not about anything else. Torsten Schmidt Did you already have the urge then to create music yourself in any sort of way? Benny Sings I have this kind of education where we sing a lot in the family and I played the clarinet and stuff, so I was kind of naturally introduced into music. Then when I was 16, of course I wanted to have a guitar band, so I did that. Torsten Schmidt What did you play in that guitar band? Benny Sings What kind of music? Torsten Schmidt Mm-hmm. Benny Sings Back then it was already the feel-good stuff, which was really a bit of a shame then in the whole, of course, grunge period and everything black. Then we came along and introduced this feel-good thing, which yeah... Torsten Schmidt While Kurt Cobain was about to die you were feeling good. Benny Sings Yeah, yes. I was next to him. Torsten Schmidt How did your classmates take it? Benny Sings Very good. Torsten Schmidt Yeah? They liked it? Benny Sings My music. Torsten Schmidt Yeah. Benny Sings I don’t know they probably didn’t hear it. I had like 10 gigs or something. Torsten Schmidt Where did you start recording then? Benny Sings In the small place where I lived, like in the bar and the Metrotech and stuff. I think a lot of people know what I’m talking about. [Microphone issues] Torsten Schmidt Still I guess a lot of the people who somehow like to think of themselves as becoming a songwriter one day, they might run into this fear of, “Hey this is me, my world, my thoughts, my feelings. This is the world out there. Yes, I’m someone who want to sing, but that’s there and I’m here and there’s that big valley in between.” Benny Sings That’s why we should be so lucky with this whole technical thing that you can just be in your bedroom, even beneath the covers, and record a song. No one has to hear it. You can just do it and erase it immediately. I think there’s no real boundary anymore because of that. It applies to everyone to start singing? Audience Member Under the covers? Benny Sings Yes first, and then slowly you make it out there. It’s really nice. Torsten Schmidt Under cover singer. Under cover singer. Come on. When you were 16, I guess there wasn’t any G4 laptops. Benny Sings No, but there was a kind of computer, so it wasn’t under the covers. I started singing like one and a half years ago, so for me it’s really fresh. Torsten Schmidt What were you doing in that band then? Benny Sings Oh yeah, I was singing as well, yeah. That’s true. Torsten Schmidt Make up your mind. Benny Sings It was a different time. I was a different person back then. A lot of other things happened. Torsten Schmidt What happened? Benny Sings I had to be newly born. Drugs stuff. Torsten Schmidt You went to rehab? Benny Sings No, I went to [inaudible]. Torsten Schmidt Well, that’s... Not exactly too different. Benny Sings That’s all of us at one point in life. Torsten Schmidt And then you found...? Benny Sings Then Jesus came into my life. It was actually quite funny because it was... I was playing in this band really feel-good stuff, then the chemicals came into play and suddenly this [points to turntables] was more cool. The guitar wasn’t cool anymore. I truly lost myself because of all this stuff. Somehow, I took the guitar at a certain point like six or seven later and it worked and Benny Sings was born. I was reborn as well. Audience member So it was losing yourself to find yourself. Benny Sings Yeah, yeah it is. It’s a good thing Audience member Do you recommend that before recording? Benny Sings Yes, take some LSD and go crazy for seven years and you’ll be really happy later on. Torsten Schmidt If you take the right turns at the right time... Benny Sings The thing is, if you just had a shit period, after that you’ll have good time. I advise everyone to have a shit period. Audience member [inaudible] Benny Sings Yeah, well actually it was kind of a break on mine. I [inaudible] regretted them. Once you’ve gone through a period like that, you really know what you want. That’s a good thing. I decided to go back where I came from. That’s really feel good stuff instead of the intellectual, electronic beat stuff. Torsten Schmidt Electronic and intellectual, that’s an interesting combination. Benny Sings Yeah, it’s because of my study which I did. It’s sonology in Holland. It’s about electronic art music of the 20th century. So Stockhausen... So it was really only talk and only thinking. It was just crazy stuff. There wasn’t a beat anymore it was just [makes electronic music sounds]. Torsten Schmidt What good three things can you say about Stockhausen? Benny Sings Absolutely none. Torsten Schmidt It took you four years of study to work that out, then? Benny Sings Yeah, the good thing is that he taught me what I didn’t want to know. Torsten Schmidt Which is... Benny Sings It’s still cool. I like experimental stuff. It’s not for me. It’s good as excess, but I’m not going to listen to it. Torsten Schmidt That’s probably another thing, which before we get into the actual process later on of trying to write something. You’ve talked about cool, whatever that is. You’ve talked about emotions, exposing yourself. You just hinted at ambitions. Is there any sort of advice how you can find what really is your ambition instead of going for... You can’t go more intellectual than Stockhausen, really. Just to measure out, [inaudible] over there, here’s me but where do I stand in connection to that. Benny Sings It’s actually quite difficult. I think it just differs for every person. A lot of things have to do with your childhood I guess. It just has to come out naturally. Stockhausen does a new thing for him and I do a new thing for me, it comes in time. You can’t do... You can’t steer it. Torsten Schmidt How long did it take you to figure out that you can stay a lot more centered? Benny Sings How many times did it take me to figure that out? It happened by accident. I was so fucked up that I was thinking I have to make something else. I have to do something else. I just thought maybe I should start singing, just as an idea. Torsten Schmidt That was because you saw Robin Williams on telly and... Benny Sings Yes, exactly and all the girls he was doing. Torsten Schmidt And you felt like, “Hey that’s...“ Audience member That’s for me. Benny Sings Yes, I want that too. When I sing this whole, simple feel-good thing came out. And of course I hadn’t actually done that. I kept it in my computer for a long time. I didn’t want to show anyone. Then by accident one of my friends heard it and said, “Shit, yo. This is nice.” I thought, well maybe it is nice. Really, for a long time it was for me like, “I’m not going to make this crap music, this kind of ’80s song stuff.” I’m not going to do that, it’s not cool. I want experiment, I want make music that means something for the development of the whole music. I was really a long time hesitant in saying, “OK, look at yourself in the mirror. You’re just a kid with a very good youth. Just do what you feel, you know?” So after a while I made a couple more songs and got used to the idea that maybe it is cool. Now I’m here and I’m really proud of it. Torsten Schmidt Do you have any of these songs which were made around the era of your friend who heard that stuff on your... Benny Sings No, but I’ve got an example which is maybe a good example of how to write a song. Torsten Schmidt Right on. Benny Sings This was really the early ages. I think... Torsten Schmidt The early ’80s or the early ages? Benny Sings Ages. Torsten Schmidt Ages, oh. I don’t know, I mean... Benny Sings What I think is important about the songs that I make is you really have to be as simple as possible. Like, more simple than you can imagine. Just bass, snare, well... Torsten Schmidt Talking of simple, I mean, why Benny Sings? Benny Sings What do you mean, the name? Torsten Schmidt Mm-hmm. Benny Sings When I made the intellectual kind of beats my name was Benny V Kreamtits, which is an anagram of my real name Tim Van Berkestijn. Benny V Kreamtits was my name and I started to sing so it’s like Benny Sings. In the same tradition as Chet Baker sings. He was a trumpetist who start to sing, which worked out quite all right. Torsten Schmidt You really make it sound like intellectualism is some kind of disease when it’s... Benny Sings Yeah, I mean it’s not. It’s good that it’s there, but it’s not for me. I’m a simple guy I guess. I don’t want to rub it out or something, I think it’s good as well. Why isn’t there any sound here? Torsten Schmidt I don’t know. Just press that button. Benny Sings Oh, it’s already playing. Torsten Schmidt There’s no signal coming in there. We had sound earlier. Benny Sings Ah. [drum beat plays]. So, start out with a beat, just snare, high, bass. What I first did, I was only making songs on the white notes because I didn’t feel like the black notes. It really makes you... Torsten Schmidt You’re a white supremacist. Benny Sings Yes. [laughs] No. It’s a good way to make it really simple for yourself. You can easily write a good song on only the white notes. I wrote this one as an example because it’s really too simple to be true actually, and it still works because of a few tricks. Torsten Schmidt What tricks would you be talking about? Benny Sings The first trick I’ll be telling you... Torsten Schmidt Get rid of the flies. Benny Sings Yeah. Torsten Schmidt Second? Benny Sings When you’re on the white notes, you’ve got the... I don’t know the English word, but... Audience Member Say it in Dutch. Benny Sings [speaks Dutch] Torsten Schmidt Ah, chord. Benny Sings Like three, chord with the three notes. And you can just hop along on the white notes. My trick was just to do the ground note with my thumb so you’ve got the note beneath the ground note with it. And it get’s this... Torsten Schmidt Seventh kind of thing. Benny Sings Yeah, seventh kind of thing. When you’ve got this riff, you can even with your eyes closed pick a few chords. Which I did. (music: Benny Sings - "Unknown") Of course this is quite an important thing, this melody. This is where you can philosophize the most about, I guess. It’s quite hard to explain. What you should think of is a melody, you should see it as a drawing. You should take into account the way it goes up and down should be an interesting form. If you only [hums melody] it could be an interesting form if you really choose for that. Or if you do [hums a more complicated riff]. You know, it could be a really interesting form if you choose it, but you have to choose. You have to know what you’re going to do. Also, what has to be taken into account is not only up and down but is the note in the chord or is the note... Torsten Schmidt Outside of it. Benny Sings Outside of it. This you can take into account as well. So, in chord, in chord, in chord, in chord, everything in chord. You can choose that if you find that interesting. Or you could say in chord, out chord, in chord, out chord. Just take it into account. I think that’s the most important thing. Then just figure out what you think is best. So that’s what I’ve got to say about the melody. Then... Torsten Schmidt Your clarinet teacher would’ve killed you for that, right? Benny Sings I don’t know, why? Torsten Schmidt Because it’s probably not... It’s a very practical and hands-on and direct approach, but it might not be... It’s not exactly classic scholarship... Benny Sings Well it is, actually, in my sonology class, which was really, really traditional but then for electronics so it was quite different. The thinking was really traditional. It really was like that, it was a lot of drawings and [inaudible]. Audience member Do you use the same idea when you’re actually composing your lyrics as well? Benny Sings Well, I was going on to that. Actually I’ve got two ways of making songs. Of course, one is starting with the lyrics. Which is, by far, the easiest because a sentence already has melody and rhythm in itself so it will probably come out then. Audience member So when you combine your lyrics with your melodies do you start... For example, you start with your lyrics, but then you write something. Do you write with the idea of your lyrics in mind? Or you just write something and it just happens to fit in? Benny Sings This certain example, which I often do, I mumble some non-[inaudible] words. Which is very easy to do in English I guess. Because you did that when you were young all the time when you sang along with the English songs, you were like [sings nonsense]. Torsten Schmidt What song was that, then? Benny Sings I was improvising it. So this is what I do often with my music right now, so I can show you that. (music: Benny Sings - "We Ain't Going Nowhere") That’s absolutely not clear what I’m saying. Then it’s... Torsten Schmidt Still it struck us. I mean poetry... Benny Sings At a certain point you think, “I might be saying this,” you know? What I heard in this was, “We ain’t going nowhere,” and then I just figured out some words and then it comes to you and when you finally have the lyric and you’re trying to get some logic into it, this is when it all falls into place like you scratch some words and you add some words and then suddenly it becomes a logical story, you know? So that’s one way of making a... Torsten Schmidt How hard do you find it with not being a native speaker? Is it a some words approach? Or do you really want to get some storyline across? Benny Sings No, no, I don’t want to get some storyline across, but actually I’m a... I would make, I think, greater art if I would make songs in Dutch, because I’d just... Torsten Schmidt Why don’t you do it then? Benny Sings Yeah, because I want to make music as universal as possible... Torsten Schmidt Mandarin? Benny Sings Mandarin? Is it a big language? No, it is because I cannot speak Mandarin, so I think there’s an obstacle there that’s a bit hard and what I find more and more important is to have kind of real poetry in the lines and not poetry in the sense of revenge, hate, love, kind of poetry, but the funny kind of poetry you have in like the jazz classics so... I mean Chet Baker songs... Torsten Schmidt Slim Gaillard kind of stuff as well? Benny Sings What? Torsten Schmidt Slim Gaillard kind of stuff as well? Like the... Benny Sings I don’t know. Torsten Schmidt Early period as well of like funny, inventive language, hip talk and... Benny Sings Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah... Torsten Schmidt ... Dog sounds and whatnot. Benny Sings Yeah. So it is quite important the line but it’s still a bit of an object for me. Well I can... Audience member Excuse me? Yeah. Do you have any suggestions for those people who do have complicated lyrics and who do actually compose their poetry quite complicated. How do you then, with complicated lyrics and rhythms, how do you... How would you then transpose that into... To actually get a musical beat with that? Benny Sings I would just not take the lyrics into account as much, so you just... You know you listen... You see the lyrics and you just think, "This is the feel," and you’re thinking like, "The tempo is up or the tempo is down or the beats are rough or soft," or anything and then you totally forget about the lyrics, you just put them away and then you just make nice music, nice instrumental music and very simple because you don’t want to have too much things going on because the lyrics are going to be the most important... Audience member And for example you have your melody and then you have your choruses... Do you know what I mean? Do you... When you think of the structure of a song in your lyrics, do you structure it in a normal format, with chorus, with verses, with this kind of thing? Or, and other people don’t have this... This chorus, verse or the idea of classical... Idea of first your chorus, then your verse, then your chorus repeated twice so that people get it, no? Do you think of this when you’re writing your lyrics or...? Benny Sings No actually, no. I mostly write my lyrics as being a chorus. Yeah, as being a chorus, so this is what it’s all about, you just invent some trick for your chorus, which is nice and then you produce a beat and one A bit and I usually go somewhere to make a B bit that is at least as good as the A bit and then, yeah, make a C bit. It really build up from there, so I just start with the chorus and then... When you have a lyric that’s really catchy, when you have the punchline let's say, then it’s going to be the chorus you know? You can put it in the first but it’s more logic in the beat to put it in the chorus because it’s nice and you can repeat it. Torsten Schmidt With this of punchline you want the punch to be hitting the aim and not be lost somewhere. Benny Sings Yeah. In my music, yes. I mean, I still want to emphasize that my music is really about that, about making everything as logic as possible and not experimenting, just trying to make pop music in its purest form I guess. Torsten Schmidt Ever had the fear of, you know, being logical and boring? Benny Sings No. No. No. Torsten Schmidt But I mean, people like Brian Wilson or so killed themselves, almost, over these questions. Benny Sings If they were boring making pop music? Torsten Schmidt Yeah, or just like trying to avoid that. Benny Sings Yeah, yeah, yeah, so... I figured that out already you know? It’s... I’ve been through hell and back you know? In musical sense. I mean I’ve heard everything there is to be heard, you know, when you are four years in sonology you hear everything there is to hear I think, in an experimental way. Torsten Schmidt So, I mean, talking of Brian Wilson, for example, I mean yes everyone knows something like “Good Vibrations” or so, as a good... feel-good song, but when you listen to the individual tracks, for example, you hear that there’s a hell of a lot of things going on at the same time, which you don’t realize at all, but... People could make albums out of that one song. How do you, you know, avoid that thing of like, “Hmm, maybe I’ll put that other thing in there as well?” And, “Oh, and there I got an idea as well?” How do you keep the calm to stay simpler? Benny Sings I think for Brian Wilson as well it’s just you have to do everything for a reason, you know, for a real reason, so you shouldn’t add something because then it sounds more rich or something, you should add something because you want to tell something with it, you know? For instance, with this song, it’s so simple that everything is there for a reason. The bass drum is there to give the one a strong feel like [makes drum sound] you’re in there immediately. The snare drum’s there for kind of the same reason, for giving the measures. The chords are really there only as... For listener to know in which chord they are. The melody is there... For the melody, because it’s the most important thing. I mean, even in my more complicated songs everything is there for a very simple reason and I think it’s with Brian Wilson as well and with very much of the good experimental music as well, everything is there, not to sound complicated, or not to sound rich, but really for a certain reason. Audience member So, what are your influences? Because, when I heard those tracks I could... I’m kind of associating you with Jimi Tenor who has like some... Benny Sings With? Audience member With Jimi Tenor. Have you heard of him? Benny Sings Yeah, yeah, no... Audience member OK, he’s kind of freaked out once in a while but he has this ballad types of songs and you know... But, what are your influences? I’m asking. Benny Sings Yeah. Well, I’ve brought some with me, maybe it’s good to listen to some songs which... I think it’s a... Bit snowed under, I mean everybody will know the songs but let's hear some stuff... Torsten Schmidt Will we come back to that song later? Or would you leave it running while you’re looking for something? Benny Sings Yeah. That’s right, I can show you how I made the chorus here, so I made the... No, how I made the verse... I made the chorus like this and then the verse was just stepping again with this framework and then cutting every little thing I had which sounded nice and keep it there. So you really hear like a cut of melody which derives from a lot of times stepping up with the same beat. (music: Benny Sings - "Unknown") C part. Audience member [inaudible]. Benny Sings Yes, and it’s still bad because none of us brought my album here. Torsten Schmidt Well, we brought it but we left it at the airport, near the conveyor belt, so someone’s really happy at Roma Airport now. Benny Sings So it’s too bad because the final song was actually a really clear pop song, you know, and this all sounds like very... Still very I don't know... What I want you to hear is a couple of things that I think is missing in most of today’s song and it’s really the kind of... Happy melody... I really can’t explain it, I can explain it in chords, it’s like most of the soul thing is in minor and I miss the major feel. That’s it, so these are all kind of songs which are only based really on major chords, like... Which is like the "happy chord." (music: Alessi Brothers - "Oh Lori") Torsten Schmidt Do you get a lot of wedding proposals? Torsten Schmidt No, I play a lot at weddings. Yes. Audience member [inaudible]. Benny Sings Nope. Especially weddings. Torsten Schmidt Bat Mitzvahs as well? Benny Sings No. Weddings. I told you. I just wanted to show you a couple of things. I don’t know which song it is... Torsten Schmidt OK, hang on a quick second, I mean we’ve just heard a bit of Carpenters creeping on there and a lot of people our age have heard that in the back seat of their parents’ cars, being strapped into the children’s seat and not being anywhere in a defensive situation, you know? You couldn’t do anything about it so we all know these songs inside out. Now skip forward 20 years, you are this walking, talking time-bomb of testosterone, somehow the two don’t really go together. Benny Sings Yeah, but then 10 years after that, then you’re ready again for The Carpenters. So it’s... That’s the thing, I mean... Of course there’s a period in life where you just want to be this testosterone bomb, but at a certain point you just like give up, you know? Which I did and it feels really good to give up, I must say. Audience member Give up or give in? Benny Sings Give in. So, is that satisfactory to you? We’ll wait a few years. Torsten Schmidt Yeah, mature cheese, that’s our thing. Benny Sings But, no I mean, this is very sweet stuff, that’s true, but the the thing is, what makes difference between a D'Angelo and let’s say, Amp Fiddler, or something, is that D'Angelo takes into account this music as well. Of course, that’s with all greats. Let’s say that they take into account a lot of music in their music. I think that this is a missing point in today’s hip-hop soul culture. Torsten Schmidt When you look at Twelli for example, I mean the Twelli of the demos, not the Twelli of that album... That song, for example, about turning 21... Benny sings I don’t know it. Torsten Schmidt It’s basically about how much he wants to be 21 so that he can get into the club and all that kind of stuff. It’s so much more real because he’s not [crosses arms in a pose]. Benny Sings Yeah. I mean, you could combine those two easily, you know? I like this one as well, you know? The one I’m pointing out, this should be a part as well because we just all grew up with this music and we’re going to encounter it when we get old, because we grew up with it, I guess. Torsten Schmidt Are you already planning for your cameo in Austin Powers 57? Benny Sings Why? Torsten Schmidt Well, with Burt Bacharach coming in on the bath and stuff. You were jealous? Benny Sings I haven’t seen the movie. Shall I get some more playing? Torsten Schmidt Please. Benny Sings I have to look for this one. (music: The Carpenters - "Close To You") For instance, I can show you one song of my next album, which combines, I guess, the hip-hop feel and the tough feel with the good feel. Torsten Schmidt Are you trying to reclaim your street cred here? How long until you do the whole shebang with symphony orchestras, string section, that whole stuff? Benny Sings Yeah. I guess the next album. Torsten Schmidt Rush Hour is going to do that, then? Benny Sings No, me. Torsten Schmidt String players need to live as well. How would you... Benny Sings Pay them? Torsten Schmidt Yeah. Benny Sings No. You just invite one string player, which is your friend, and you give him a lot of beer and he just does the whole orchestra on his own. Torsten Schmidt Isn’t that kind of counter-productive? Benny Sings Counter-productive but cheap. I mean, for everything there is a way, you know? I mean, this one as well is actually quite a big production or something, but it didn’t cost one euro. Torsten Schmidt Beer is that cheap? Benny sings Yeah. OK, it cost a few beers, yes. I’ll show you one song, which I think combines this hip-hop feel with the rough also. (music: Benny Sings - "Follow The Light" / applause) Torsten Schmidt Ever wrote a song about hangovers? Torsten Schmidt Yeah, on my new album actually. Torsten Schmidt Really? Benny Sings I’m going to make you hear that one at the end. Torsten Schmidt OK. Benny Sings "No More Drinks For Me," it's called. It's appropriate to end this lecture, perhaps. Audience member I was about to ask... You were saying that you started something really extreme and it sounds like you got exposed to sounds that you didn’t really want to get into as a total electronic approach to music. Something like that. Benny Sings I didn’t really hear... Audience member You said earlier, you mentioned something about studying really extreme electronic sounds. Do you think that in a sense what you said, like you had it as heritage, listening to when you were young, you brought it up now, maybe in some way there could be a chance that you, maybe like a decade from now, may be returning to that extreme sounds? Benny Sings Yeah. There could be, yeah. I think, especially for this album which was with no electronic sounds at all, was my celebration of my new non-electronic me, but I feel that having done that, having celebrated this one, I am now getting the urge again to get into a bit more of the electronic stuff again. Perhaps you’re right. Yeah. Audience member One last thing from me. Do you think that the actual point of making music, your contribution to progression in a way, giving music, generally, a new thing, is making what the people do not expect, in a way? Benny Sings It's tough to say about that. I don’t know if I really understand the question, but what I can say about development in music is that for me, the most logical way how music develops is people imitating each other. I think this is very much a ground rule of being a human. The human is also called homo-imitance. It’s like a very biological need to imitate each other, and I think what’s wrong with Stockhausen is that he doesn’t imitate. I think that’s why a lot of the criticism people have on, let’s say, Puff Daddy or something is not really grounded because this is the core of music, is imitating each other. Of course it’s really cool if you hear new stuff, but it’s pure logic that a lot of the stuff you hear you have already heard. I mean, I think music develops more in a way of people imitating each other and failing at that than people really out of the blue inventing something totally new. I think people like Stevie Wonder and people like that really weren’t afraid of that urge to imitate their heroes, you know. Of course there will be a lot of wack shit but the one that fails in imitating and fails in a really interesting way is the new Stevie Wonder, I guess. Audience member I just have a quick question about your vocals and whoever recorded them. If you could say a word about that, because they’re very well done. Benny Sings OK. I just rented this, what was it, Neumann... I think it was M-49, and I just recorded it straight into my computer and, well, it was mixed in a studio and... Well, in the studio he had some really cool old compressors. We just made samples. Audience member Hi. I was wondering if you have any of your experimental electronic stuff, just to see where the progression has come from. And then also... I don’t know. You say you left your CD at the airport... I have the Rush Hour compilation. It’s got some of your songs on it. I don’t know. If you want to play it, you can. Benny Sings Well, no. I mean, "If We Ain’t Going Nowhere," it’s on there, it may be interesting to... Is it on there? Audience member It’s not labelled because we didn’t have the Internet connection. Benny Sings Some of my experimental stuff may be on here. Torsten Schmidt While you’re looking for it, probably that’s a good time for the more or less exciting five-minute business interlude. I mean, you’re there at home. You’re singing under your pillow. You somehow got someone to get you that Neumann microphone. How do you get it out there, especially if you’re on your own? Benny Sings Well, what I did was just make a five song demo. I made like 200 of them and just... What I think is most important, use your network. I mean, if you’ve got a famous cousin or something, you know. It’s better if he gives it to someone than you yourself. I think that’s an important thing. I just sent it to all the record companies. Why they picked up with me, I think, it’s because of my famous cousin. Torsten Schmidt Who’s your famous cousin, then? Benny Sings Yeah, it’s Jacob David. He’s like an actor in Holland. A serious actor, not a soap... You won’t know him. Torsten Schmidt Because Dutch soaps is not a big thing... Benny Sings If you have any entrances into the world, use them. [inaudible]. Torsten Schmidt And if you don’t have them? Benny Sings Then you just give everyone your music. Audience member Can I have your cousin’s number? Benny Sings Yes. Torsten Schmidt Is your mic switch on, because there’s no audio on? Benny Sings Yo. Yo. OK. Wow. Torsten Schmidt Yeah, but any recommendations for not having a cousin? Benny Sings Yeah. No, just giving your stuff to everyone. Simple as that. Torsten Schmidt Can you overdo it? Benny Sings No. No. Just make a lot of copies and give them to everyone you meet. I mean, every single person could be that one that gives it to that one who gives it to that one. You know. Torsten Schmidt Talking of Stevie Wonder, how do you avoid the fate of being the artist and being totally screwed over in the early stages of your career, then? Benny Sings What happened with Stevie Wonder, then? Torsten Schmidt Well, I mean the Motown thing or whatnot. Without knowing too much, how do you get a fair deal... Benny Sings Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s difficult, yeah. I mean, most of the big guy music people in Holland at least are really crap people, so yeah, that’s really difficult. I just had the fortune that I came across a very honest and sweet guy which wanted to bring me out. He’s like, I think, the only person in Holland which can be really trustworthy. Yeah, that’s difficult. These guys, these record company guys, the big ones, they are biggest testosterone-bombs you’ve ever seen. It’s quite hard to be honest with them, or to make a fair deal. Be aware. That’s the only thing I can think of. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Could you, for those that don’t know much about Amsterdam and the Rush Hour thing, could you probably paint a picture of what that’s all about? BENNY SINGS In Amsterdam, there’s this really small scene of some guys, who just bring out really cool music. Rush Hour is one of them and Dox is the other. Rush Hour is really only vinyl and worldwide and Dox is just the Netherlands only. What can I tell about it? It’s really cool and it’s really small and I think it will always stay small. But that’s OK. AUDIENCE MEMBER Just a small comment on Rush Hour. Here’s a guy from Amsterdam, he knows Rush Hour, obviously. But I happened to buy that record about a week ago, and another friend of mine, which whom I share a room with, has it already, and I saw a couple of other people having that one as well – it’s big. What do you mean by small and big, it’s a very subjective thing? BENNY SINGS I mean, small as in not being a name like Virgin. Well, you never know. AUDIENCE MEMBER Usually people like to compare themselves to other people, you know? But at the same time I listened to your music and I see that it seems to be like a ‘true love story.’ Some people write lyrics about their past. How do you write lyrics? BENNY SINGS I never make music about something. I think, it’s more about language, actually. Figuring out what kind of sentence could be cool, punchlines you could say. I never wanted to describe this situation or that situation, I just wanted to make a joke in my song. For instance, I would look up contradictions, like, “She’s a nurse, but she makes me sick," or, “The sun is shining, but I feel blue.” You know, there are all kinds of rules, which you can try to follow to make an interesting text. I’m really not developed enough in that, but this is mostly the way I go around making songs. AUDIENCE MEMBER What can you say about Marvin Gaye and his influence on soul musicians? And at the same time I would like to know who of the contemporary musicians are close to you in terms of taste. BENNY SINGS Well, Marvin Gaye, I don’t know much about him. I’m not a guy, who knows a lot about history and stuff. I just listen to what I get, mostly, and it’s just all kinds of coincidences [the way I get music]. I’m not the kind of guy that spits out all the background and would know what musical influence Marvin Gaye had on modern musicians. It wasn’t that big on me because I never got to listen to it. I just got the record like two months ago, the famous one, What’s Going On?– it’s alright, but it’s not really my cup of tea, actually. I know, I shouldn’t say that about Marvin, but everyone has it’s own taste, I think. And contemporary music, it’s not that much. I really like one Dutch guy, Harco Pront, I don’t know if that rings a bell. You should check it out because it’s really raw and strange – that’s one of the things I really like today. Let me think whether there is something else, which you might know. TORSTEN SCHMIDT What about Phoenix or something like that? BENNY SINGS I like it, but it can never compete with the old stuff, like the Carpenters. Nah, I don’t listen to the Carpenters, but...[laughter]. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Are you trying to be cool again? BENNY SINGS No, but it never can compete with the Chet Baker stuff and the old, really classic songs. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Do you play live? BENNY SINGS Yes, I do. It’s a bit of a difficult thing because I do the music on my own, so... TORSTEN SCHMIDT ...and guys behind laptops is the most exciting thing ever on stage. BENNY SINGS This not what I wanted to do, so I had a live band. It’s quite cool actually, but I’m not as proud of it, as I am of the album. It’s nice, it’s just songs and you see me singing, so it’s cool. [inaudible comment from participant] My live shows are, of course, all about love and coziness. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Ever stole anyone’s crowd? BENNY SINGS How do you do that? You mean, when one band is playing and you play right next to them? You mean, when you’re opening up for somebody? I see, no, I wasn’t that often a runner-up for someone or something. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Robbie [Williams] beware! BENNY SINGS Yeah, here I come. TORSTEN SCHMIDT And what is your dream, if you ever get to that, playing the big stadiums, will you have a Spiderman routine and girls waving flags with your name on it? What is your thing? BENNY SINGS I don’t know what by then will be my thing. TORSTEN SCHMIDT But, tonight you are playing the Colosseum... BENNY SINGS ...and you would have all the money you want? Let’s see, I think it would be more of an intimate show. It’s intimate music, so... TORSTEN SCHMIDT You’d be wearing..? BENNY SINGS ...nothing. No, I’ll be wearing this golf suit or something. Rebelling against the rebels. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Do you do interludes on stage or is it just, “Next song!”? BENNY SINGS No, I tell a bit about myself, not studied [or rehearsed], but I talk to the people when I’m on stage. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Do you have stage fright? BENNY SINGS No, not anymore. I mean, this here was far more scary than a gig. TORSTEN SCHMIDT OK, so let’s turn it into a gig. Is there any song of the last album you would do a capella? BENNY SINGS No, no way. TORSTEN SCHMIDT You don’t have stage fright, you said (encouraging applause from audience). BENNY SINGS Wait, wait, wait, I don’t have any instrumentals here. TORSTEN SCHMIDT So we do it a bit more intimate later in the studio, it’s cozy in there. So, what’s that thing on the screen? BENNY SINGS That’s basically how I made my new album. TORSTEN SCHMIDT Hang on for a quick second here. I mean, it’s always, ‘The new album, the new album,’ but there’s enough people here, who don’t know about your old album. Can you tell us a little bit about Champagne People. I mean Champagne People, when you look at it, who is the distributor, etc., I mean, it’s not that ‘bling,’ right? The first association you get with Champagne People is like ‘bling,’ but when you listen to it, it’s a different kind of champagne we’re talking here, isn’t it? BENNY SINGS What can I tell about the old album? I made it in my room, which was three by two [meters], with a bed in it, a couch and a studio, which was one by one [meter]. I just sat on my chair behind the computer, (demonstrates the narrow studio) the mic here, the piano here, just making that album. I made a demo, which had five numbers, threw it into the world, and one guy said, “I want to get it out to the world.” And he did. TORSTEN SCHMIDT What was the most unpleasant thing you heard about it? BENNY SINGS I guess, “It was dull.” TORSTEN SCHMIDT How was your reaction? BENNY SINGS I was thinking, “Yeah, it's maybe right for him, it’s dull, yeah.” TORSTEN SCHMIDT And how did you feel? Angry? BENNY SINGS No, not at all. For me this whole thing came so much as a surprise that it’s already mindblowing for me that someone wants to criticize my album in a magazine. So, I’m just smiling. He really listened to it. AUDIENCE MEMBER Do you care about what people say about your album? BENNY SINGS Yeah, I care about it and I listen to it, but there wasn’t that much bad publicity, actually. There are just some critical notes, so I take them into account because I think it’s a typical goal to cover as much in music as possible. AUDIENCE MEMBER You got a lot of people saying, “Great, great, great,” but it doesn't really help you in developing your next album... BENNY SINGS Well, I’d rather have them write good stuff than bad stuff about me.