Black Milk

JEFF CHANG

Ladies and Gentleman, without further ado, Mr Black Milk.

BLACK MILK

What’s going on. What’s going on, people? It’s good thank you.

JEFF CHANG

Coming all the way out from Detroit.

BLACK MILK

313… Motor City. Yeah man, it was a long flight man. This is my first time overseas so you know, I’m loving it so far. It’s good.

JEFF CHANG

Folks treating you right?

BLACK MILK

It’s cool. Since I came, I got here yesterday so you know, I ain’t really toured the area yet, but so far it’s good. I’m going to be here for a few more days. I want to see the club scene and experience some of the Australian women, and you know. I got a few more days for that. It’s cool.

JEFF CHANG

All right. You’re playing Saturday night, right?

BLACK MILK

Yeah. I forget the club I’m playing at. I didn’t even know I was going to, to tell you the truth until yesterday somebody was like, “Yeah, you are performing.” I’m like, “I am?” They showed me in the book… I was like, “I am, then. Lucky I brought a show CD out here with me. Saturday it is.”

JEFF CHANG

Let’s start at the beginning and wind it all the way up. You were born in 1983. Actually you’re the first, you’re one of the youngest folks that we’ve had actually on the couch. I don’t think you’re the youngest, youngest. Young [Skream], was the youngest youngest, but you’re one of the youngest folks that we’ve had on the couch this week. You were part of the first generation actually to come up, pretty much only with hip-hop right?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, hip-hop and soul music like old-school soul, R&B-type music. Funk. Stuff like that.

JEFF CHANG

What I was going to ask is what kind of influences…

BLACK MILK

The majority was hip-hop. It wasn’t till I started doing beats where I really got into old-school records and started figuring out who did what, like James Brown and Parliament and Funkadelic, old stuff like that. Sly and the Family Stone. When I started doing beats, I started learning more about old-school cats but it was hip-hop. Majority hip-hop. Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

What was your first hip-hop experience that you can remember?

BLACK MILK

Hmmm. First hip-hop experience… It probably was when, like the first time I discovered so-called hip-hop here, say dope hip-hop music, real hip-hop music was like ’97, ’98. I got turned on to Tribe Called Quest and De La. I was 14, 15 around that time so my older family members, some of my older cousins, that’s all they used to listen to. Slum Village, De La, Tribe, Outkast groups like that, Native Tongues, Common. Once they introduced it to me, that’s when I really got interested in it, with the beats and everything. Around that time, ’97, ’98.

JEFF CHANG

Were there other folks in your family that had been musicians or had been making beats or that kind of thing?

BLACK MILK

My aunties and uncles, they all sang. They really was good at singing. I had a couple of aunties and uncles that was actually musicians. They played a little bit of guitar. No big thing, no groups or nothing like that, but just ran in the family. Everybody was into music some type of way. Eventually, my cousins was the ones that turned me on to making beats. They was doing it first, and I was into sports. I wasn’t even into music like that, but eventually… one day, I just caught on to it and was listening and was like, interested in it. Started messing with their equipment and took it from there.

JEFF CHANG

What kind of stuff were you messing with at the beginning?

BLACK MILK

My first little pieces of equipment was like a Dr Rhythm drum machine and…

JEFF CHANG

The old Boss machine?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, the Boss, yeah, with the little cheap drum sounds. I still use that machine though to this day.

JEFF CHANG

I think a lot of folks in hip-hop actually do, and nobody ever really shouts it out or anything but…

BLACK MILK

Yeah, because it’s got some good 808 sounds in it. That, I can’t think of the sampler I was using back then. I can’t even think of the sampler, but it was like, before then, I was just looping up tracks and samples on tape cassette. I’d just loop up the samples before I started doing beats on drum machines. I’d just get a tape or something and dub it back and forth and keep looping: one, couple of bars or a two-bar loop or something that I heard that I liked.

JEFF CHANG

Mix tapes, pause tapes.

BLACK MILK

Yeah. Something like that until I got into really making beats. Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

How did you make that transition working from the Boss thing to actually getting a little bit deeper into it and how old were you?

BLACK MILK

Like ’99… 15… 1999, I was like 15. That’s when I started getting into making beats. Like I said, I backtrack a little bit. Family members was messing with tracks. I got into it. Was messing with the little cheap equipment. Then eventually, I was like let me step my game up. Let me buy some… I went to Guitar Center, and was like, “What do I need to make beats like this and this?” Finally got me an MPC 200XL. I’m still working on that today. I work on a 3000 sometimes, but with the XL and microKorg keyboards. Little keyboards like that, and that’s it. That’s all I work with. Just keep it simple, and records. Ever since then, that’s what I mess with man.

JEFF CHANG

When you started recording and getting serious about it, did you also start stepping up your digging and that kind of thing?

BLACK MILK

Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

I know you do a lot of that. Is that a kind of thing of going to your auntie’s house and going through a collection, and pulling the records out and slipping into the other room and dropping it in there?

BLACK MILK

Yup, just go through all the records. I used to even sample… I was raised in a church, so I used to sample some church record that my mom and pops had laying around, and just make it into some old hip-hop shit.

It was that, and then I eventually started going to record stores, digging and people start learning names and who did what and getting into different types of music like prog rock and electronic and just more than soul music. I took it from there.

JEFF CHANG

On your record you’re talking about, yeah, I like a little Gentle Giant.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, groups like that. Gentle Giant, love Isao Tomita. Groups like Kayak, Yes. it goes on and on. Groups like that I mess with besides the soul shit.

JEFF CHANG

What’s interesting to me to is that this time actually in hip-hop, this is we’re talking about the late ’90s now, a lot of folks had moved away from sampling because it was just two expensive, but youe whole thing was like, “I want to take it back to…” I think you were talking about the trinity the other day right? About your holy trinity of producers.

BLACK MILK

I don’t know man. Sampling, a lot of people like you say, they’re trying to get away from sampling and use live instrumentation, which is cool, because I’m trying to get more into live instrumentation too instead of just working on an MP, chopping up samples off records because it does cost, unless you… I’m at a point where I kind of can chop up something and disguise it a little better than could back then. I can kind of get away with it more now, but I’m trying to keep that grimy, dirty sound. That’s my whole sound. The people I was listening to was DJ Premier, Primo and J Dilla. Those were the three top guys that influenced me to make…

JEFF CHANG

Pete Rock.

BLACK MILK

Pete Rock, Primo and Dilla. Yeah, those were the three cats that really made me want to just do beats. Dilla more than anybody.

JEFF CHANG

How big of an influence was Dilla on your beat making and your career and everything?

BLACK MILK

Like I say, Slum Village was the first group that I think had made… had turned me on to real hip-hop shit. My cousins was already cool with like Baatin and T3. They had a lot of the songs from Fantastic Volume 2, and Fantastic Volume 1 before that shit even came out. I was already hearing it. I’m like “Damn man, this shit is dope as hell. What is this?” When I started trying to mess with beats, the influence that I was hearing, my ears was basically trained through Primo, Dilla and Pete Rock. Of course, my beats is going to come out with a little bit of that influence. Dilla, nobody else was making beats like that, with the snappy snares and the drums and the way he chopped it. I was like, damn this shit is dope. Plus he was from Detroit, so the influence was already there.

JEFF CHANG

You were actually about 16 when you started making beat tapes. You started circulating it around to different folks, and it got in the hands of the folks from Barak Entertainment.

BLACK MILK

Yup, it got in the hands of Slum. I think one of my friends and my cousin that went out on tour with Slum, they had like… this was around the time when I started first doing beats, they had one of my beat CDs out there and they was playing it while they was on the road and Slum heard. Slum heard the joints and they was like, “We got to mess with him when we get back to Detroit.” They got back to the D, hit me up, like, “Come to the studio, we heard a couple tracks. Bring some new shit up.” I brought some beats up and ever since then I’ve been working with them cats. They took me under their wing, held me down, showed me some ropes, and T3 showed me a couple tricks on the MP, and I’ve just been down with them since day one now.

JEFF CHANG

At that point when they first ring you up after getting back off the road, had you ever worked in the studio before or was this all kind of new thing?

BLACK MILK

No, I was all just in the basement. I was one of them basement cats, in the basement making beats and digging. It wasn’t even that serious to me. I wasn’t even try to get in the game like that. I was just doing it because of the love. I just love to make beats. Eventually, the game came to me.

JEFF CHANG

That’s nice. That’s real nice. We didn’t have any of those old beat tapes here.

BLACK MILK

All that stuff is on cassette too.

JEFF CHANG

Is it really?

BLACK MILK

I was recording on cassette then on a karaoke machine, and I didn’t have ProTools then. I don’t even know where most of them joints is at.

JEFF CHANG

Maybe we can play them a little something from Slum Village and Jay Dee that you had worked on a little bit later down the line, just to give them a taste?

BLACK MILK

Well the first joint that I sold to Slum was off the Trinity album in 2002. It’s a song called “What Is This.” The sample was this guy named Matthew Herbert.

JEFF CHANG

Do you want to give away the sample?

BLACK MILK

We cleared it, so it don’t even matter.

JEFF CHANG

Oh, all right. Just double checking. Who was it then?

BLACK MILK

Matthew Herbert.

JEFF CHANG

Oh, Matthew Herbert.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, that’s what the sample was.

JEFF CHANG

I appreciate it. OK, cool. This is “What Is This.”

(music: Slum Village – “What is This” / applause)

BLACK MILK

Thank you.

JEFF CHANG

That’s the first track you’re saying you did with Slum Village?

BLACK MILK

That was my first track I sold to a professional… to a group that was on a major label at the time.

JEFF CHANG

How old were you at this time?

BLACK MILK

I think I was like 17, 18.

JEFF CHANG

You were still in high school?

BLACK MILK

Just getting out. I was a senior, I was just getting out.

JEFF CHANG

Wow.

BLACK MILK

I was just getting out so I was 18, because I graduated when I was 17. Yeah, I was just getting out.

JEFF CHANG

Wow. That’s really big. We can talk a little bit more too about the industry and how it’s changed. It’s very rare, I think, for there to be producers at that age that are getting on in a pretty big way. That was a hit record. The album was a big record.

BLACK MILK

It was, man. They was on a major label at the time. They was on Capitol Records at the time so, it was big man. It got us a lot of exposure.

JEFF CHANG

You started off working with Slum Village, but you were also meeting a lot of different folks that were in the Detroit scene at this time?

BLACK MILK

Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

You’re working with Phat Kat.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, Phat Kat, Que D, who else? Waajeed, he was another producer that was coming up at the same. I think Trinity was another breakthrough album for him as well as me. That was about it.

JEFF CHANG

You’re kind of linked up with Young RJ as well?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, RJ too. We got RJ and Fat Ray. That started to be our Gunna thing. After the Trinity album, me and RJ basically took over the production side of all the Slum albums after that. After the Trinity album, everybody went off and did their own thing. We stuck there with them and held it down.

JEFF CHANG

The BR Gunna thing, did you come at that as an organic type of thing, or were you guys just kind of “We all got something, why don’t we try to put it together? See if it works, see if it doesn’t work?” How did that go down?

BLACK MILK

I first met Young J during the Trinity album. He called me up and that’s how I met him. We did the Trinity album after that. After the Trinity was Detroit Deli. We basically produced that whole album.

JEFF CHANG

Which is the next Slum Village record?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, that was the next Slum Village record. They had one Dilla track on there and the rest was us. We are doing all the beats anyways, we might as well start a group. You got the Neptunes and other duo teams. We were like, “We’ll start a group, BR Gunna.” That’s what it was.

JEFF CHANG

You were rhyming at this time?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, I was rhyming.

JEFF CHANG

When did you start?

BLACK MILK

I was rapping before… I was MCing before I was doing beats. I was already writing, so I eventually got into doing beats.

JEFF CHANG

OK. Let’s play something from the BR Gunna, The Dirty District Volume 2.

BLACK MILK

What you got, what you got? “Do Ya Thang.”

JEFF CHANG

“Do Ya Thang,” want to do that?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, we can do that.

JEFF CHANG

OK, let’s find that. This is also featuring J Dilla.

(music: BR Gunna feat J Dilla – “Do Ya Thang” / applause)

Jeff Chang

Should we play them another one from that?

BLACK MILK

Why not? Let’s play the joint, “Jackin.”

JEFF CHANG

“Jackin,” OK.

BLACK MILK

Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

OK, all right.

BLACK MILK

Play a piece of that.

(music: BR Gunna – “Jackin” / applause)

Black Milk

That was around the time, man, that’s when we was doing the BR Gunna thing real heavy, you know what I’m saying. We was just two young cats trying to let the world hear what we could do with the beats, you know, we could hang with the best of them. We was like, “We got to put our own project out.” That’s what we did, put out Dirty District, man, and got as many cats from around the city just to come rhyme over the tracks. That’s what it came out like.

JEFF CHANG

Now, it’s interesting because you guys had already been demonstrating like a lot of different styles. The two tracks that we played, “Do Ya Thang” and “Jackin,” were pretty different. The second one, “Jackin,” sounded like it was a lot more sample-based.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, it was, it was, like the “Do Ya Thang” joint was a little more electronic, synthetic, you know.

JEFF CHANG

What did you use to put that together?

BLACK MILK

That was, I think that was the Triton. Yeah, I think we got the sound out of the Triton. We just chopped up some drums off a breakbeat album, that what came out. The Que D joint was off of an old ’70s record, I can’t even remember. I don’t think we cleared that so I don’t even want to name it, the record we chopped up on that one. But yeah, we tried to do some old-school shit on there.

JEFF CHANG

The other thing about the Detroit vibe was… [It was in] the early ’90s where everyone was trying to posse cuts with folks. It wasn’t for commercial reasons. It was to try to bring everybody on in a different kind of way. I think when the posse cut first started, this was just the way of saying, “This is my crew. This is how fly we are. This is how good we can get,” as opposed to nowadays where I have to do a track with that person because it’s commercially viable for me to break into his market if I add him to my record.

BLACK MILK

It’s totally different now and then. In the early ’90s, I wasn’t too big in the hip-hop realm. I was young. You can put it like that. I was young. I didn’t know any names. I had no experience, and stuff like The Hip-Hop Shop that was real big in Detroit at the time, where cats like Eminem and Proof and all the D12, Slum and Phat Kat [would go]. That’s where it all started from for them, when they were just rapping for fun. I miss that. I miss that era. I went to The Hip-Hop Shop like one or two times. I don’t even remember the times I went like that, but I know the times I did go. After that, the posse cut now is cast… they get a feature off an artist that’s big just to blow their record up. I don’t really be on all that. I’m not trying to get big names to blow my name up. I do what I do and try to gain my fan base from that.

JEFF CHANG

Do it from the ground up type thing?

BLACK MILK

Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

The thing that I think I was trying to get that is sort of the Detroit thing is still different. There’s still that kind of vibe where folks are trying to do it to do it. I guess the question that I have for you is there a lot of support from the city for you, for what it is that you guys are trying to do? Or is the classic story, like Detroit techno, where folks build up a community of producers, but it has to go overseas for it to get recognized.

BLACK MILK

That’s the crazy thing. The techno scene… once every year, we have a festival called the Detroit Electronic Music Festival. Carl Craig does it. It’s ridiculous. I’ve never seen where one year where it wasn’t a million people there. It’s always crazy. It would seem like the underground hip-hop scene would be the same way, but it’s not. The radio does it. They show us love, but I’m trying to watch what I’m saying right now. The radio, they show us love, but it’s not enough. Like you say, overseas we get appreciated so much. We could tour overseas all day – Slum, Phat Kat, me. We could go overseas and kill it. But when you bring it back home, it’s different. I guess they just don’t get the music. I guess it’s too far over they heads. It’s kind of sad, in a way. We’re trying to make people figure it out and show them what we’re trying to do. This is good music, you need to be checking this out. Everything doesn’t have to be “bling-bling” and “shoot ’em up” this and “drugs” this. We have just some feelgood music.

JEFF CHANG

Mhmm. At the same time, you were out there with CDs on the street and that kind of thing. There is sort of a fan base, I guess you could say?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, it was kind of different for me too because it was… I guess I appeal more to the youth because…

JEFF CHANG

Because you’re younger?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, I’m kind of younger.

JEFF CHANG

The kids look up to you.

BLACK MILK

Some of the stuff, the content of some of the songs I do is a little more appealing to the youth than something older cats do, like Slum. They are a little too mature. Their music is a little too mature for a certain age group. People did take to me a little more and the radio took to me a little more than other groups and. We need more young cats like me to bring more dope hip-hop music to the masses and cats like… that’s why I’m feeling dudes like Lupe Fiasco and Kanye. They’re doing that dope music. I’m trying to follow in their footsteps and do my thing. They’ve proven that it can appeal to the masses. They can sell units by doing a different type of music without having to do the same old same old… What people hear all day on the radio and people see all day on TV.

JEFF CHANG

Yeah, I guess I wanted to ask too… I was going to ask you this later, but it’s coming up naturally as you’re talking. This whole kind of distinction between the mainstream and the underground seems to be a lot more divided than it was back in the days you’re talking about… The Hip-Hop Shop, and the on West Coast, in LA, there was The Good Life, and in the Bay Area, there was always some stuff going on… we had Soulsides going on, Stones Throw and all these folks getting started.

BLACK MILK

Right.

JEFF CHANG

Do you think it’s actually possible for folks to actually come out and make a living in the quote/unquote underground?

BLACK MILK

I mean yeah, you could definitely make a living. Look at artists like Talib Kweli and Mos Def. Mos Def is a superstar now. He’s doing movies. The thing about underground, so-called underground artists, [is that] we can tour any time. We don’t have to have an album out to tour. We could constantly… people appreciate our music more. Our fan base is more loyal to what we’re doing. Other artists that’s kind of mainstream, they only can tour really when their album is out or when they have a hot single, but after a few months is done, it’s over. Nobody is trying to come to the club and check them out. Artists like us, there’s more longevity.

JEFF CHANG

Yeah.

BLACK MILK

Point blank. We’ve got more longevity than others.

JEFF CHANG

For the big artists, it’s like you eat a lot or you eat nothing at all. For you guys, it’s more of a grind, but it seems like you can get it a little bit more steady.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, because the fans are so fickle when you’re on a mainstream level. They’re going with the new trend, whatever the new trend. That’s what they’re going to go with. If your trend fades away, you’re going to fade away right along with it. That’s one thing I never want to do with my music or what I’m doing. I never want to follow trends. I just want to do me, so I can keep doing it as long as I can.

JEFF CHANG

Should we go to the backpacker question?

BLACK MILK

[laughs] Yeah, can go to it.

JEFF CHANG

You know you’ve got to get asked this question. Folks in the underground these days get labeled as backpackers, do you think this is a healthy term or does it piss you off?

BLACK MILK

Man, that’s a touchy question, too. The backpacker situation, it’s good and it’s bad. It’s like, if someone… like my music is kind of considered backpack, but I say the beats that I do is kind of considered backpack but what I talk about is like… it’s got a little more commercial appeal to it because I’m talking about regular shit, you know what I’m saying. I’m talking about being in the streets, messing with chicks, and making money and having nice things, so it’s like, you know, that’s what they’ll say on a regular commercial song but the beats kind of give it the flipside. It’s like if somebody called me a backpacker, it don’t really offend me, but I did, on my new album, I did kind of address it on the intro and I really don’t want to say the line I said, but I think I’m about to say it anyway. I was like… what do I say? I say.

JEFF CHANG

You want to play it, or…?

BLACK MILK

They might not hear it, they might catch it but I think if I said it, it might be more. I’m gonna say it then I’m gonna play it.

JEFF CHANG

Say it, say it.

BLACK MILK

I say, "Because I don’t walk with a backpack on, don’t put me in a box, dog. We do it all. You could catch me in the club from the window to the wall, till the sweat drops down watching strippers take it off. You could…" Damn, I forgot the intro (laughs).

JEFF CHANG

It’s your new record!

BLACK MILK

Wait a minute, I’m going to get it. I say…

JEFF CHANG

You’ve got to get it by Saturday, man.

BLACK MILK

I say… wait a minute, now I want to say it. What do I say?

JEFF CHANG

Window to the wall.

BLACK MILK

Wait a minute, I say… damn, we might have to play it because I can’t remember right now.

JEFF CHANG

We’ll come back to it, man (laughs).

BLACK MILK

We’ll come back to it. We’ll have to play it.

JEFF CHANG

Why don’t we save you by playing some more of your music here?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, what you want to play?

JEFF CHANG

Do you want to…

BLACK MILK

Damn, what do I say, it’s fucking with me now. I say… fuck it, man, I can’t even think of it. Damn! It’s messing with me, but yeah, what did you want to get into?

JEFF CHANG

I was thinking we could go back to some of the Slum Village stuff because after you guys did the BR Gunna thing, maybe we could talk about that a little bit, too, because it lasted, you guys did your thing for a little bit and it kind of fell apart. Do you want to talk about that?

BLACK MILK

The BR Gunna situation? Yeah, it fell apart basically because, I might as well go on ahead and put this out there, too. The business wasn’t right, you know what I’m saying, like the label I was working for… like I wasn’t signed to the label at the time that we, I don’t even want to put the label out there like that, but the label, you know, Slum was working on and we was working for, I wasn’t signed to them. I was just doing a lot of music for them, but it was like me and J was cool, you know, we was putting out a lot of dope shit, but the business and our money just wasn’t right, so I had to kind of step out of that situation. We had an official BR Gunna album, you know what I’m saying, it had Dilla.

JEFF CHANG

It was done, it was actually cut.

BLACK MILK

It was done. It was done and it was supposed to have come out but you know that label shit, man, it just the business side just messed everything up and it was, we was on the independent label it was like we could do what we want to. They was trying to appeal too much to the commercial side and the mainstream side and trying to change the sound and do this and that.

JEFF CHANG

There was some creative things where they would come to you and tell you to switch your stuff up?

BLACK MILK

Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

Even on a…

BLACK MILK

Not so much but, huh?

JEFF CHANG

Even on the independent tip?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, on the independent tip, you know the guy, which there’s nothing wrong with that you know? Labels, they want to make they money, there’s nothing wrong with that, but for me it was like, “I’ve got a whole different vision.” I had to step back and do my solo thing, so that’s why I eventually came out with a project last year, summer of 2005, I came out with a project called Sound Of The City where I had different Detroit artists on there and just showing the people what I do. This is what I do, Black Milk does by his self. You know, this is my sound, trying to create my sound.

JEFF CHANG

Let’s go back and play some of the Slum Village stuff and then come up and play some of the Sound Of The City stuff. Sound good?

BLACK MILK

OK. What are you wanting to go into?

JEFF CHANG

Why don’t we do “Call Me”? Then, we can talk about the whole… You want to do that?

BLACK MILK

The “Call Me” joint! This is kind of funny. I know you all are probably familiar with J Dilla. He came out with this album called The Shining, his last album. He had a song on there called, “Won’t Do”. It was the Isley Brothers sample. I forgot the name of the Isley Brothers song, but Ice Cube used it. You know the name of that joint? The Isley Brothers joint? It was their famous…

JEFF CHANG

Yeah Aaliyah used it too, didn’t she?

BLACK MILK

I can’t think of the name of the actual song. No, it wasn’t “Between the Sheets.” It’s another song. Anyways, we sampled it for Slum Village for their last album. I cut up the Isley Brothers track and then he had his version for The Shining. It was crazy how… Just play the track…

JEFF CHANG

This is “Call Me” featuring Dwele.

(music: Slum Village feat Dwele – “Call Me” / applause)

BLACK MILK

We just figured out the song, it was [The Isley Brothers'] “Footsteps In The Dark.”

(music: Isley Brothers – “Footsteps In The Dark”)

That was the sample I chopped up for that Slum Village track right there. So, the Slum album came out. It didn’t do too good, but it was just a fact. I did that track I was like, “Man, I’m going to chop up this “Footsteps In Yhe Dark.” I know Ice Cube had used it first.

JEFF CHANG

On “It Was A Good Day”?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, “It Was A Good Day.” I’m going to go ahead and flip it again. I know people will be like, “Damn.” I hadn’t heard that in a while. Did it. People didn’t really hear the song because the Slum album didn’t do too well. A few people heard it and it got some response, but Dilla did it for his last album, for The Shining. His version was crazy just as well. It was dope as well. Here’s the Dilla version.

JEFF CHANG

Let’s play the Dilla version.

BLACK MILK

They didn’t hear mine. They’re like, “Fuck Black, love Dilla.”

JEFF CHANG

What was it again?

BLACK MILK

“Won’t Do.”

JEFF CHANG

“Won’t Do,” right.

BLACK MILK

Okay.

JEFF CHANG

“Won’t Do.” Here we go.

(music: J Dilla – “Won’t Do” / applause)

BLACK MILK

I guess everybody loved “Footsteps In The Dark” and everybody just wanted to fuck with it for the last couple years.

JEFF CHANG

It’s almost the Detroit sound. It’s that real deep kind of groove type of song.

BLACK MILK

The Isley Brothers, that’s classic all day… all that shit. That guitar and that particular song was just so sweet.

JEFF CHANG

I want to talk to you a little bit about how you cut your thing up. You took that and you literally took that apart, if people could hear how you had taken it apart, you kind of re-do the melody, the whole entire melody.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, I try to sample… well, when I do sample, I sample the parts that kind of open with no vocals on it. I tried to cut the guitar parts. I didn’t want to use it. When I sample, I don’t like to just sample something and just loop it up. You can just rap over the regular record. I like to kind of chop it up and make it my own. People might figure out what it is. They might not. That’s what I did with the Isley Brothers. I knew everybody was going to know what it was just because the guitar. Everybody knows that guitar, that particular song.

JEFF CHANG

There was a little bit of a trace with Dwele…

BLACK MILK

He was just signing over what I had sampled. I chopped two pieces of the vocals up.

JEFF CHANG

He didn’t really know what you were up to with it? Did you know what you were going to sample was that you were…

BLACK MILK

Yeah, he knew what it was. We were recording it. He knew what it was. He was like, “I’m going to just sing this song how you chopped it, how you chopped it up.”

JEFF CHANG

That’s a little bit more too I guess of the Primo and the J Dilla influence?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, man.

JEFF CHANG

In terms of taking a portion of a song and just chopping it up and stuff?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, making it your own. It’s real dope when you can chop up a famous song and flip it.

JEFF CHANG

So, people don’t even recognize it?

BLACK MILK

Yeah. If they do recognize it, they’re like, “Damn, he flipped that shit. I wouldn’t have even thought about doing it like that.”

JEFF CHANG

Do you tend to take a song and then take just one portion of it and work on that or do you tend to take a song and take different portions from different parts of the track and cut all of those up simultaneously?

BLACK MILK

It depends. Sometimes I don’t even get through the whole record, I don’t get through the whole song. It might be a sweet-ass bassline or a sweet-ass guitar part or a drum part at the beginning of the song and I just mess with it, chop it up and make a track and probably won’t even get through the rest of the song. You know, different samples, I work different ways with different samples. I try not to chop up the vocals so much, though. I like to get more of the melody of the song instead of just the vocal part.

JEFF CHANG

Okay, let’s play another track. This is kind of, maybe if there was a big hit off that record, this would have been it… “Ez Up.”

BLACK MILK

Oh, yeah, “Ez Up.” yeah, right. It did its thing. We got a Chevy car commercial off of this song so that was…

JEFF CHANG

Which is good for residuals and that kind of thing (laughs).

BLACK MILK

Yeah, that was real good. Yeah, that was real good. It got us a lot of exposure.

JEFF CHANG

OK, so here’s “Ez Up.”

(music: Slum Village – “Ez Up” / applause)

Jeff Chang

Again, it doesn’t sound like it began with a sample. It sounded like it started with some other kinds of thoughts. How did you actually begin working on that track? Would it the bassline or was it the drums, or…?

BLACK MILK

It was finding a sample first.

JEFF CHANG

Oh, OK.

BLACK MILK

The strings, the little strings.

JEFF CHANG

In the back?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, to tell you the truth, that was Dwele’s song first. He had that track first, you know what I’m saying? But he didn’t pick it up for his album, so Slum ended up using it. It was like, I messed with the strings, it was… damn, did we clear that sample, can I say the name of that record? I don’t think we cleared that sample, no, I can’t say the name of that record. It was an old-school famous person’s record, so chopped up the strings, got some claps, put a little synth bass line on it, there you have it. Try to keep it simple as possible, man, you know I don’t really like to put too many sounds in, clutter up a beat. Once it’s good and it feel good, and probably put a couple of changes in it and call it a day, that’s it.

JEFF CHANG

The sample clearances, do they affect your creative process? Do you think when you’re listening to a record, “Ah, shit, I’ll never be able to get that cleared, I might as well not even try?”

BLACK MILK

Well, that’s another situation when it’s like you have more of an advantage when you on an underground level than when you in the masses, you know what I’m saying? When you in the underground you really can do whatever the fuck you want to. I could chop up Isley Brothers and Sly & Family Stone for days because they don’t even really mess with you, you know, like I say, when you a major artist and you selling millions of records and if you selling like 5,000, 10,000, 20,000 copies, most of the time, they don’t really mess with you like that. Unless it’s a real famous-ass song, unless you’re sampling some Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones-produced type shit. Other than that, you basically can get away with a lot of shit when you’re underground.

JEFF CHANG

When you compose the stuff and the clearances have to go through, do you worry about folks coming in and scooping up your publishing?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, like I said, if I do a track for a group that’s on a major label, most of the time, the artist I sample, they’re going to get their percentage of the song, and you can’t do nothing about it. Either you’re not going to put the track on the album, or you’re going to say, “Fuck it,” and just get the little royalty checks and however much you’re left with. It depends, like if the track came off, you do a track that samples somebody famous, sometimes, it’s worth it. Let me put it like that. Sometimes, it’s just worth it.

JEFF CHANG

How is it worth it?

BLACK MILK

Because, like I said, you could make a dope-ass track, and it’s like you want the world to hear it. It’s like, "Just listen to what I did. Listen to what I flipped."

JEFF CHANG

You take the loss because you think you can get to a larger audience?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, and most of the time it’s not a loss, especially if you’re getting Pharrell or Just Blaze, you’re getting $30,000, $50,000, up to $100,000 a track, so it’s like, “All right, give me my $100,000. I’ll just eat off that, and fuck the royalties.” You know, that’s how I do sometimes.

JEFF CHANG

You still eat pretty good off of that.

BLACK MILK

[laughs] Yeah, you still eat pretty good off a $30,000 check. It depends on what level you on. Me, myself, it’s like… the artists I produce for… sometimes, I’ve had a couple artists that was on major labels, but those tracks wasn’t even samples that I gave the major artists. The majority of those tracks, the underground shit, when I do my own personal stuff, and other artists just… I do whatever. Whatever I want to sample… it ain’t no, “Well, we got to do the song this way. The verse got to be 16 bars. The hook got to be eight bars.” There’s no holds barred when you’re doing your own shit. That’s the advantage of being so far underground.

JEFF CHANG

It’s interesting because I think, at least in the US, the intellectual property laws that kind of govern sample clearances… it’s almost created like two classes to where, you’re either a super-rich producer that can afford to, like Blaze samples Shaft In Africa and the Lafayette Afro Rock Band. Then a whole bunch of folks that are basically outlaws. They’re basically, I guess, they call them copyright criminals or whatever.

BLACK MILK

Some people got the money to do it. That’s all I can say, man. It’s a weird thing. Me, myself, I don’t care about none of that stuff. When I’m sitting down listening to records, I don’t think like, “Damn, if I chop it this way, I’m going to have to clear it.” I just do what I do, whether, if you can figure out what the sample is, fuck it. We’re going to have to clear it. If you can’t, that’s even better. We get away with it, but I don’t really trip on the sample clearance thing like that.

JEFF CHANG

Let’s go to your Sound Of The City record. You, basically, now you’ve stepped from Barak Entertainment. This is about 2004, 2005, something like that. Stepping out on your own, how did that feel? Now you have to basically not only just do the production, but you had to get yourself a deal. You had to go and get the stuff produced. You had to figure out the distribution thing. Did you already have a lot of that game from watching all these other folks?

BLACK MILK

Kind of.

JEFF CHANG

Talk about that process a little bit, because a lot of folks in the room here are about to embark on that after they create these great tracks.

BLACK MILK

To tell you the truth, it’s still like the beginning stages for me. I’m still learning the business. Watching a lot of stuff, Slum going through a lot of things with their label situations and a couple other artists, I just sat back because I was never signed to anyone. I was just producing the tracks for them. Watching them, it did kind of help me go into it. The independent route has its ups and downs. The ups is, you’ve got more control of your music and you make more money off of selling your music. If you were signed to a label, you’d probably get a dollar off each CD or something like that. When I did Sound of the City, it was more, so I’m just going to put together something, and I’m going to get a lot of different artists from Detroit. I’m going to do some dope beats, have a rhyme on it, put it together, package it up, and just sling it in the streets and just try to build my buzz up.

It wasn’t even about the money or nothing like that. It was just about building my name up. It still is just about building my fan base. It’s really not about the money. It’s about the money, but it’s not. You’ve got to have that fan base behind you. That’s what Sound Of The City was. I’ve got to show people I could do this shit on my own without a Slum cosign, without a Dilla cosign. This is me. This is Black Milk.

JEFF CHANG

You wanted to play “Duck,” right?

BLACK MILK

Yeah. We could play “Duck”. Another thing about Sound Of The City, me personally… the shit I did for Slum was kind of… we had to have a little more of a commercial appeal with the beats. We couldn’t be auto with underground. My shit personally is like, I’m doing whatever I want to. I loop up a whole song or just rhyme over a drum break and don’t care about it. It’s like whatever feels good. I don’t go into music thinking, “Damn, would the radio play this?” I don’t go into doing it like that. That’s what Sound Of The City was. It was just raw shit and having fun. That’s what it was. “Duck” was one of those joints I chopped up. It was like a Smokey Robinson joint or something like that. I just rapped to it. I didn’t even put no drums to it. It just came out raw on some RZA or Wu-Tang type of shit.

JEFF CHANG

Keeping it Motown. Motown raw. “Duck.”

(music: Black Milk – “Duck” / applause)

BLACK MILK

Just messing around, man. Just messing around. I just like to have fun with my own shit. Most of the beats that I rap over too and most of the beats that I do for my own projects, it be tracks that other people, they didn’t see the vision I was seeing, so I was just like, “Alright. I’ll do it for myself.” Then another track off Sound Of The City, I guess we could go into the Baatin joint, “Eternal.” This joint was so crazy. I sampled this group called Soft Machine. It was a Soft Machine sample. I was like, “Man, this beat is so out there. Nobody going to try to buy this beat,” but I’m like instead of having Baatin rap on it, I’m going to have him sing on it, because he’s a real talented dude. He can sing, rap, he do it all. I’m like, I’m going to have Baatin come in and just sing on the track. We’re just going to do some other shit.

I was scared because I didn’t know how people were going take to him. I’m like, “Man, people are going to think this shit is wack, but the music I do for me, it be for my own ears.” When people like it, I get a good response off of it, it makes me feel good like I could just do whatever I want to. It can sell and get my fan base off of it. “Eternal” joint. Baatin.

(music: Black Milk feat Baatin – “Eternal”)

JEFF CHANG

You’ve been doing a lot of stuff lately, though, in the last year for other artists as well as getting your own stuff together. This has been kind of a real big creative year for you.

BLACK MILK

Yeah man, I’ve been just grinding, man, hustling, man. I got a couple tracks on the new up and coming Pharoahe Monch album, which is I think going to be kind of big because he hasn’t put nothing out since his first solo effort. It’s been a while, so I’m glad I got a couple tracks on that. I think that’s going to be classic.

I finally got my deal. I got a record deal with Fat Beats Records, so I’m repping them now. The stuff is going to be distributed and put out even better. You know what I’m saying? Yeah, man, I’ve just been working hard.

JEFF CHANG

You also have stuff with Guilty and…

BLACK MILK

Yeah, Guilty Simpson. He’s going to be another person I think that’s going have a big anticipation for this album coming out next year. I’m trying to have at least about five or six beats on there. If not, I might have at least three. Yeah, Guilty Simpson. I’m working with D12, Denaun Porter from D12. I’ve been working with him a lot lately. He’s the one that hooked me up with the Pharoahe Monch shit to tell you the truth. Yeah, just trying to stay busy.

JEFF CHANG

Phat Kat, too?

BLACK MILK

Phat Kat’s new album. You just reminded me of that. Phat Kat’s new album coming out next year. I got four joints on there. Yeah. We’re just going to try to do it big in ’07. We’re just trying to flood the game.

JEFF CHANG

I hear you. What we’ll do is I guess…

BLACK MILK

Oh and my… Sorry, not to cut you off.

JEFF CHANG

Go ahead.

BLACK MILK

My own personal project, I forgot about that, Popular Demand is coming out.

JEFF CHANG

Talk about it.

BLACK MILK

Yeah. Popular Demand is my first Fat Beats release. It’s coming out featuring cats we just said; Slum Village, Guilty Simpson, Phat Kat, Que D, myself. It’s a lot of people.

JEFF CHANG

You’re going to have an EP out before that, right?

BLACK MILK

The EP, Broken Wax. The name of it is Broken Wax. It’s supposed to come out mid-November, mid-next month. It’s just going to be exclusive vinyl. It’s not coming out on CD. We’re going to press out a few thousand copies. Just put it out on vinyl like that and probably put it on iTunes. I’ve got Broken Wax with me, too. You probably could go through some of those joints when you get a chance.

JEFF CHANG

You guys want to hear that? OK. What we’ll do is first we’ll play some of the Monch stuff, and then we can play some of your songs from the EP and you can break some of them down for us.

BLACK MILK

OK.

JEFF CHANG

One question I have for you though is… we were talking about this earlier. A lot of folks are moving out of Detroit. Do you see yourself holding it down for the D for the long term? What do you think?

BLACK MILK

I’m not really trying to go nowhere. It’s always good to venture out and set up shop other places and try to build a buzz and a little base somewhere else. You can’t stay stuck in one position forever. I’m not mad at someone that decides they want to go to California or something like that or New York because entertainment is big in both of those cities. I’m not mad at you. Eventually, yeah, I’m going to branch out and go different places and try to do my thing other places, but for right now I’m going stay in the D a little longer. I’m going to stay and try to hold it down and build it back up and just play my part in helping the hip-hop scene get built back up.

JEFF CHANG

Is it a kind of situation where Dilla’s passing has made things difficult for folks in the city?

BLACK MILK

Some. Yeah. Not just Dilla. Dilla and Proof, you know what I’m saying? Dilla was big coming from the city just because of the beats and the people he worked with and just the sound he created and everybody was behind him. Proof was like a real big part of Detroit hip-hop because he was the main guy trying to bring the commercial side of it and the underground hip-hop side of it. He was in both worlds. He had the D12 thing and running with [Eminem] and all them, plus you would still catch him at the club or at an open-mic spot still freestyling.

It was like he was trying to bring both worlds together, so when they both passed it was like, damn. We don’t have leaders. They were like the leaders of the D. I don’t know. That played a big part in people wanting to just go somewhere else and start new. Start fresh. You can’t really be mad at them because Detroit is known for all this violence and the economy not being too good, but that’s another reason I think the music that comes out of Detroit is just so good because there’s nothing to do but music.

JEFF CHANG

I think the community is real strong. My girl Invincible is doing stuff. Triple P – Platinum Pied Pipers – are making a lot of noise now. It just feels like there’s so much creative stuff going on that all of us here at the Red Bull Music Academy who aren’t from Detroit, because we love Detroit, we’re just rooting for y’all. Even in the World Series even though you beat the As [Oakland Athletics baseball team] and that kind of thing. I’ll let that go.

BLACK MILK

That was surprising. Detroit Tigers is like night and day now, but anyway yeah. It’s nothing you can do, but stay creative when you do music. That’s the only thing that makes you feel good about your day or makes you want to stay motivated because it’s so much bullshit going on in the city. Plus it’s the Motor City. I say the greatest label, Motown Records, it’s like that vibe is still there, so I think that bleeds into our music. The younger generation. The greatest artists almost ever recorded in Detroit. From Stevie Wonder, when he was little Stevie, when he was 14, 15, when he was young. Aretha Franklin, and Marvin Gaye, a lot of his hits was like recorded in Motown. Smokey Robinson and the Miracles. The list goes on. Michael Jackson. The biggest artist probably ever, with the Jackson 5, they did a lot of stuff so it’s like that vibe is still there and it bleeds into the younger generation.

JEFF CHANG

Well let’s play some music. Pharoahe Monch. “Let’s Go.”

BLACK MILK

Yeah.

JEFF CHANG

Lead-off single from his album produced by Black Milk.

(speaker: Pharoahe Monch – “Let’s Go” / applause)

Jeff Chang

Have you got some new stuff you wanted to play for us too?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, we could go into this new joint.

JEFF CHANG

What should we go with here?

BLACK MILK

I don’t know. Let me see. What do I got? What do I got?

JEFF CHANG

We can go with this.

BLACK MILK

What did I put in?

JEFF CHANG

This is the CD.

BLACK MILK

Oh, that’s the tracks.

JEFF CHANG

The EP right?

BLACK MILK

Talking more about the tracks. No, that’s not the EP, I don’t think.

JEFF CHANG

That’s just straight beats?

BLACK MILK

Yeah, that’s the beats. Yeah. We could play some beats. Y’all want to hear, EP? What y’all… You said, “Yeah, beats?” It’s just whatever.

JEFF CHANG

I think people want to get a little more into your head about how you get all this stuff together, how you put it…

BLACK MILK

Put together beats?

JEFF CHANG

Construct it.

BLACK MILK

It’s real simple. Everybody has their own technique of chopping records, but you know me. I try to go with the melody, I put on a record, listen till I hear something good. Sometimes, I’ll be on a track for a whole week and won’t cut my MP off for a whole week, just let it sit there until I get the loop right. Just mess with old-school records, like old-school soul records, Motown records, electronic records, like I was saying. Prog rock. What else? Just everything. Anything that sounds good. It’s no limits with me. I don’t have a certain sound I fuck with. I’m known for mostly fucking with soul music, but I’ll mess with anything. Sound Of The City was like giving the people variety of different stuff, a different type of music.

JEFF CHANG

I think we were talking yesterday about you looking to try to move beyond soul as well to broaden your range.

BLACK MILK

Like on Broken Wax, I have some soul stuff on there…

JEFF CHANG

Broken Wax is the EP?

BLACK MILK

The EP. Then I have a joint on there where I chopped up a Tomita track, where it’s kind of digital, a little synthetic. I do a variety of different stuff.

JEFF CHANG

What should we…

BLACK MILK

We could go into the Broken Wax. Do you want to pop in the CD or the wax?

JEFF CHANG

Let’s just put the vinyl on.

BLACK MILK

All right. Let’s go.

JEFF CHANG

Let’s go! (Laughs)

BLACK MILK

I forgot which song it was. Which one is it? This is the joint. It’s called “Pressure.” I chopped up some Tomita shit. It wasn’t regular soul stuff I do.

(music: Black Milk – “Pressure” / applause)

Black Milk

Broken Wax is just like a continuation of Sound of the City because it’s just raw shit. I’ll play the intro real quick. It was me just looping a record and cutting it up kind of on-beat, off-beat. There really wasn’t a format to it. If I were to try to sell that track to any other artist, they wouldn’t have bought it because it’s just so different. I keep it for myself. I think this was a Foster Sylvers record. Yeah. The Sylvers.

JEFF CHANG

You’re messing with the Sylvers thing on the YouTube thing.

BLACK MILK

Yeah. Yeah. I was talking about that. If you’re not familiar with the Sylvers, it was like another… it was kind of like the Jackson 5 in the ’70s. They were damn near the same exact thing as the Jackson 5. They just had a couple of sisters in the group.

JEFF CHANG

If I’m not mistaken, actually, they were produced by Freddie Perren who was Fonce Mizell’s partner in the corporation.

BLACK MILK

Oh, word?

JEFF CHANG

I think so.

BLACK MILK

OK. I didn’t know that.

JEFF CHANG

If I’m not mistaken. I don’t know if he did all the records, but I know he did the big ones.

BLACK MILK

Okay. Yeah, I didn’t know that. That’s one of my favorite groups; Foster Sylvers. I’ll play the intro.

JEFF CHANG

By the way, if all of you want more of this to take home with yourselves, you can get on the net, and there’s a 15-minute presentation that he does, two parts, on YouTube where he basically breaks down how to take a beat and cut it up Black Milk-style.

BLACK MILK

Just go to YouTube.

JEFF CHANG

It’s Black Milk interview. What is it? Midwestern Goodies or something like that?

BLACK MILK

Midwesterngoodness.com

JEFF CHANG

Goodness.com

BLACK MILK

Just go to YouTube and type in Black Milk in. I wish I could have brought my MPC and demonstrated some stuff, but I don’t have any records, and I wasn’t totally informed of what I was getting into so I just brought some stuff.

JEFF CHANG

By the way, you’re doing a show.

BLACK MILK

Yeah. By the way, I’m doing a show. You can check that out on YouTube. I’m breaking down a beat, and I’m working with the MPC and showing you how to chop records and sequence a little bit. Just a little something. It’s nothing major, but it’s just a little some of what I do so you get more. I’m going to get into this Sylvers track. Like I said, off-beat, on-beat. Different type of format.

Sometimes, I didn’t even want to put drums to that beat because it was like the sample was so… it sounded so good to me. I was like, “I’m not going to mess with it. Manipulate it. I’m going to leave it like it is and just spit on it.”

JEFF CHANG

There it is. Let’s open it up for questions. We should get the microphone just so that we get the question recorded.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

Could you be more specific who are the white niggas?

BLACK MILK

Huh?

AUDIENCE MEMBER

White niggas.

BLACK MILK

Huh? Wait a minute.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

I just didn’t get the lyrics.

BLACK MILK

I’m not taking offense to it. I was just trying to see what she was saying. I said white, what you say? Oh, she’s talking about the racist line. No, I said, “So racist towards whack niggas like Klan members towards black niggas.” That’s what I said. I thought she said, “White niggas.” I was like, “Huh?” That’s crazy.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

It's a question about the BR Gunna group that you had going and the business behind it. You said it wasn’t real cool, and that’s why you kind of pulled back out of it. Can you give a little bit of a description of what it was like, the studio and going to the studio in that part of the D and dealing with making the beats and stuff with Young RJ?

BLACK MILK

Working with Jay, it was cool. It’s a different vibe when you go into a studio and try to make beats and you got people there looking and their ears are just on it… besides you being at home, being at the crib in the basement or wherever you are cutting up your own tracks it’s just a different vibe. You’re free, but… me and J, we’re still cool. It was just a thing where I had to branch off. The label shit…

I hate being told what to do for one thing. For somebody to try and come and tell you to do your music a certain type of way or try to change it a little bit, that really wasn’t the biggest thing. It wasn’t like they were always trying to, “Do it like this. Do it like that,” but it was a little bit of it. I’m like, “Man. No. This is what I do.” I don’t want to try to go commercial with my shit. If it turns into being appealing to the masses, then there it is, but for now, I’m going to do what I do.

Once I try to change and go back to doing some underground shit if I just started doing some commercial shit, I can’t do it. The fan base is going to be like, “What the hell are you doing? First, you were bling-blinging, now you’re trying to go back and…” Nah, I want to come in the door with a certain sound so the people can know this is my sound and I can have a longevity with it and don’t have to worry about changing up. That’s all that was, man. A funny situation. I don’t really like to get into details about the money and all that shit, but it’s just that label bullshit.

Do your own thing. Try to make your own label and do the independent route. If a major label wants to give you a million dollars, a couple million dollars to put your record out, then take it. But other than that, I think the independent route is good because you got more control and you don’t have to worry about people over your back and trying to tell you which direction to go with your music. You’re doing what you want to do.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

Collecting my thoughts is a little bit of work, but I was just wondering me being from Vancouver and kind of being in a place where hip-hop is huge in Vancouver. You can’t get away with any club night without playing hip-hop, but just basically the vibe I think from outside looking in on Vancouver is this whole backpacker thing and even beyond that to a more sort of “tofu rap” is what we call it.

JEFF CHANG

Hey man. There’s nothing wrong with tofu.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

I’m interested to find out how you feel about Canadian hip-hop being that Toronto… I know it’s got this kind of reputation that it’s been so hard to break out of Canada yet it’s so huge there. I think hip-hop a lot comes from the experience of… Canada doesn’t really have the same sort of rough and tough lifestyle where a lot of this good classic hip-hop is coming out of. I’m just wondering what your feelings are on that.

BLACK MILK

I haven’t really heard too many, I’m not really up on a lot of different hip-hop artists from Canada, so I really couldn’t say to tell you the truth.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

Just that whole backpacker vibe in general as far as it not coming from the experiences. A lot of these kids that are wanting to rap don’t have the same experiences, like they’re living in…

BLACK MILK

If the music’s good, it’s good whether you’re from the hood or you’re from the suburbs. Like I say, the backpacker term is a good thing and then it’s a bad thing in a way. I don’t like to be looked at as a backpack artist just because it’s like saying you don’t do regular shit. I do regular shit all the time. I like nice things. I like to go to the clubs and go to the titty bar, ride in nice cars and clothes. I just like this type of music, but I’m a regular dude. That’s why I don’t really like the term backpacker because it puts you in a box of a certain type of music like you just sit in a room all day burning incense. It’s crazy. It goes in one ear and out the other. The backpacker thing, I’m just going to stop saying that word.

JEFF CHANG

That’s the B word.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

One more [question]. I was just checking out your MySpace page and I was wondering how that’s affected your career?

BLACK MILK

MySpace is like the new crack. I love MySpace. I love Tom. Tom is a genius for making MySpace. It’s the best thing for artists that’s trying to get their music heard all over the world. A lot of my buzz has been from MySpace and just letting people download whatever I want to put up there and just check out the music. MySpace is great. I don’t have anything against MySpace.

AUDIENCE MEMBER

You have quite a few profile views.

BLACK MILK

Huh?

AUDIENCE MEMBER

You have quite a few profile views. I was impressed.

BLACK MILK

Yeah. It’s lovely. I love it. I don’t know what I’d be doing without MySpace right now, so Tom… thank you, Tom, for creating MySpace. For real. MySpace the shit, man. A lot of people don’t like to admit they be on MySpace like that, but MySpace the shit. That’s all I can say.

JEFF CHANG

Do we have other questions? Back there Mr Spacek.

Audience member

[Inaudible]

BLACK MILK

Do I have a track here? No. I didn’t even bring that track. That track is so old. I don’t even think I’ve got the disc that beat was on so I don’t even have it. I brought some beats, but I don’t have that particular track.

JEFF CHANG

Play some of the beats?

BLACK MILK

We can scan through some beats real quick.

JEFF CHANG

It’s all yours. That’s the cue right there.

BLACK MILK

I’m going to scan through some beats real quick. These tracks, not too many people heard them. Probably a couple of people heard them. I’m going to go through them. I think this a Yes sample I fuck with.

(music: Black Milk – unknown / applause)

Wait a minute. I want to play more. I want to play more!

JEFF CHANG

OK. OK.

BLACK MILK

I’m on a roll. What did you want to say for real?

JEFF CHANG

No, no. Do your thing, man!

BLACK MILK

What did you want to say?

JEFF CHANG

I was just going to say the drum programming was real interesting. You actually had a tip on that YouTube video where you were telling people not to play right on beat or right on the metronome, but just a little bit before, a little bit after just to give it a little funk.

BLACK MILK

Yeah, because you know live instrumentation is kind of loose and it’s not stiff. If you’re on a drum machine and you’re using the timing and quantizer. It’s like when you program your drums in the samples manually, it makes it feel a little more loose. If you’re hitting the snare on the pads and you’re not using it with full level, you’re hitting it a different way each time, like if you were hitting a live snare or you were hitting a live hi-hat, it’s not going to really sound the same each time.

It’s better just to be loose with it instead of using the time and the quantizer, so you get a loose feel. It feels better. It doesn’t feel as stiff. It doesn’t feel stiff and like you programmed it, robotic man or something…

(music: Black Milk – unknown / applause)

Nobody heard these, man. Nobody really heard these tracks, so these are kind of new. This the Tomita joint that I love. I love this sample. I don’t think anybody messed with this, neither. A little something of what I do. I guess I’ll stop it right there if y’all want me to. I’ll stop it.

[applause]

JEFF CHANG

Black Milk!

BLACK MILK

I’ll play some more. I’ll play some more. I might as well just play one more as just the encore. See what else I got. Let me see. This is the encore so, wait a minute.

JEFF CHANG

The encore.

BLACK MILK

Which one did you say hit?

JEFF CHANG

The one with the (makes noise).

BLACK MILK

Oh, the rock joint. This is some rock shit I chopped up. I think this is this rock group called Journey.

JEFF CHANG

San Francisco.

BLACK MILK

Oh, they’re from San Fran? OK. I didn’t know that. OK, here you go.

(music: Black Milk – unknown)

JEFF CHANG

That sounds nothing like Journey.

BLACK MILK

It doesn’t?

JEFF CHANG

No. Which is a good thing.

BLACK MILK

That’s Journey. I just chop up. This is what I do. A little something, something. Nothing major. That’s how I get down back in the D. Y’all started something now. I just feel like listening to tracks all day. Damn. For real. I might as well play another one. Fuck it.

JEFF CHANG

Yeah. Why not?

BLACK MILK

Shit. Fuck it.

JEFF CHANG

I don’t think anyone’s complaining.

BLACK MILK

If y’all want me to stop, just let me stop. Y’all got any more questions? I just started going off into the beats. No more questions? Good. OK. More tracks. This is a Willie Hutch sample…