Boi-1da (2017)

Anupa Mistry

Hi, everyone. Good morning.

Audience

Good morning!

Anupa Mistry

Day two.

Boi-1da

Hey.

Anupa Mistry

Yeah. I hope you guys had a good time at the show last night and got to spend some time in the studios and stuff. So my name’s Anupa. I am a journalist from Toronto. I live in New York, now. I was here at the Academy last year and I had the best time, so they asked me to come back and host another lecture. I’m really excited to be sitting here with this producer who’s helped, I think, cultivate the sound of young Toronto and really of a new generation of young artists making hip-hop and r&b. 2016 was a big year.

Boi-1da

Pretty big.

Anupa Mistry

Credits on some of the most, kinda, talked about and successful albums of the year. Rihanna’s Anti, Drake’s Views, Kanye’s The Life of Pablo. And he’s not just a figurehead of a scene, I think it’s really great that he gets to be here and interact with you guys because he’s also proven himself to be a mentor to young people in Toronto.

So, please, help me welcome Boi-1da to the Red Bull Music Academy. [applause]

Boi-1da

Thank you, thank you. Appreciate you.

Anupa Mistry

So, you’re from... Well, you’re not from Ajax, Ontario, you’ve moved now to Whitby. I hope I’m not blowing up your spot.

Boi-1da

Yeah, nah, it’s all good. Just moved right down the road. Spent half of my life in Scarborough, the other half in Durham and Ajax. Went to school in Pickering, Pickering High. Yeah, it was a good time. Great place.

Anupa Mistry

This is a safe space to reference all those cities cause we’re all Canadian here…

Boi-1da

Oh, yeah!

Anupa Mistry

So you don’t have to be like, “Toronto,” and…

Boi-1da

Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. A little bit, maybe 40 minutes away from the city, for anyone who doesn’t know. But, Durham region consists of four little small cities, and that’s where I grew up most of my life. So, it’s like, maybe like 40 minutes outside of Toronto.

Anupa Mistry

But you were born in Jamaica.

Boi-1da

Yup.

Anupa Mistry

And you came to Canada when you were basically a toddler.

Boi-1da

Yup.

Anupa Mistry

And, you know, you listened to Jamaican music in the house, growing up. How did that music kinda shape the way... Shape your interest in music but also the way you hear music?

Boi-1da

Well, growing up, in my household, it was only dancehall. My dad used to just be pumping out dancehall mixtapes. And we’d only hear that and reggae music, culture reggae. And when I started going to public school, my older sister started getting into r&b, which has bled to me... I started hearing r&b and hip-hop music. But dancehall was really the first music I was ever introduced to.

Anupa Mistry

What were some of those artists that you were listening to? Or that your dad was listening to?

Boi-1da

Well... Yeah, my dad... He used to play a lot of [Beenie Man, Sean Paul, Buju Banton, Spragga Benz], just so much artists. [Bob Marley], [Capleton]... Man, there’s like, all sorts of... All kinds.

Anupa Mistry

So really kind of, like, a raw sound. You know? Not…

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

Not just, like, all roots in the house.

Boi-1da

No, wasn’t all roots. A lot of it was aggressive dancehall, some pretty vulgar stuff, but... You know.

Anupa Mistry

You remember, like, forming opinions of that music when you were young? Like, what you liked and what you didn’t like about it?

Boi-1da

I just remember... I just liked it. Like, I dunno what it was about the music but I... It was just something, the only thing I knew at the time. And, you know, the cadences to it were cool, and the rhythm... The songs were very memorable to me, and they made you wanna dance. They’re very colorful, upbeat, and... Yeah, they’re songs that made you wanna dance, and... pretty cool songs.

Anupa Mistry

And when you started making music when you were a teenager, were you thinking, back then, about folding those ideas into your music?

Boi-1da

Yeah, back then I would think about incorporating reggae elements and dancehall elements into my beats. But at the time, it wasn’t really, like, the cool thing to do. So I was kinda just learning... Hearing some of my favorite artists and favorite producers... Just learning from listening to their music, kinda following the trends at the time. But that kinda taught me how to make music itself, so... Yeah, but that time I was just going through a learning phase. But when I started getting more into production and learning more about it, I started trying to incorporate things from my past, and…

Anupa Mistry

So that time, when you were kinda copying... Is it safe to say copying?

Boi-1da

Yeah, it’s safe to say. I used to actually sit there and recreate my favorite songs, like a song that [Pharrell] would produce, I would literally try and recreate the entire track. And I’d actually, by doing that, I actually learned a little bit, because this is a time before YouTube. There was no YouTube, there was no nothing I coulda went to, to learn... Well, I’m pretty sure there was but I didn’t know what it was. So... I basically taught myself. So...

Anupa Mistry

What were you using to recreate these beats?

Boi-1da

I was using [FruityLoops], and things like Version 3, so that was a long time ago, that was when I was 15. I’m 30 now, so… But yeah, I was recreating all my favorite beats and learning how to... Once I was doing that, I was literally learning what they did and how to structure my songs. It was just a learning experience doing that.

Anupa Mistry

I think you bring up an interesting point. I wanted to touch on this as well. I think most people here are a little bit younger than you, and so kind of came into the technology in a way that feels a little bit more native. Had access to the YouTube tutorials. You kind of had to figure out what works and what doesn’t. Do you remember the first time you used Fruity Loops, and learning to understand the software?

Boi-1da

Yeah, I remember the first time using it was really late. I ended up downloading it, taking my mom’s credit card and just downloading it off the website.

Anupa Mistry

How much did it cost?

Boi-1da

I bought the basic version, so it was a little bit over $100. I got in trouble for that, but it was worth it. But I just remember turning every single knob. I didn’t know what anything did, and I would just be listening. I would turn every knob and just figure out what it did and kind of memorize what everything was and what every button was. I was just doing a lot of playing around at the beginning, trying to make music. But I was just trying to learn the tools of the program and what it does at first, and then I started more getting into trying to create music.

Anupa Mistry

What did those first beats sound like?

Boi-1da

Trash. So bad. I was listening to some of them the other day, and I was just like, “Oh, my God.” I came a long way. But they’re pretty bad because I didn’t know how to structure things. It just sounded all over the place. I don’t have any musical training or anything. I still don’t. I couldn’t tell you what any notes are or nothing like that. I literally just kept experimenting and playing around with stuff, but they were pretty bad. You could tell.

Anupa Mistry

Did you play those for people?

Boi-1da

Yeah. I played them for some of my friends. I have really honest friends, and they were... “Yeah, this is not good. You need work.”

Anupa Mistry

So, how did you transition from that into Battle of the Beatmakers, which is this competition that happens in Toronto?

Boi-1da

Well, thank god for my honest friends. I would always play my music for my close friends, and they were really honest. “This is bad, bro. You need to get better, try something else.” So, I just stuck with the program and learned it a little bit more, learned some new things, and I got a little bit better. A friend of mine had came to the school and told me that there’s a competition called Battle of the Beatmakers, and I should join it. At the time, I was 17, and I was pretty nervous. I’d never done anything like that. I’d never done anything competitive other than a few sports at school and what not. I was a pretty quiet kid. I was like, “Why not? Let’s join this and see what happens.”

So, I ended up going, and I was really intimidated by everyone that was there because it’s all grown men. I was 17 at the time, and everybody was talking about all these machines that they use, and hardware and VSTs. I was just using FruityLoops. So guys were talking about ASR-10s and [MPCs], and I didn’t even know what any of that was. I was just like, “All right. I’m just going to play my beats, and hopefully it does something.” I ended up winning three years in a row, so that was pretty... I didn’t expect it, but when I heard people playing their beats, I was like, “Oh, these guys are not really that good.” [laughter]

Anupa Mistry

Go ahead.

Boi-1da

No, I was just saying I ended up playing my stuff, and basically winning for the next three years in a row. So, I was pretty happy about that.

Anupa Mistry

What do you think it was that you were doing that made you successful in that space at such a young age? Like you said, you were up against grown men. Probably people with more formal training or studio experience, but what do you think you were doing that stood out?

Boi-1da

I think what I was doing to get there was I was really focused. I was literally inside all summer working on music. My friends were outside doing stuff, going to parties. They were telling me to come out. I was really just interested in getting better at making music because that’s what I wanted to do. I had a real passion for it, so that’s what really got me there.

But I felt like what stood out more in my music than in everybody else’s at the competition was mine... It was really loud, and the mixes were great. I had really good mixes on my tracks. They had good balances. They were just better. [laughs] They were good at the time.

Anupa Mistry

All right. I think it’s time to hear some music. Maybe go back to around that time.

Boi-1da

Oh, boy.

Anupa Mistry

You’ve talked about this before. It’s well documented, so no surprises. I’m going to play... This is what you call the first beat you ever sold.

Boi-1da

OK.

Anupa Mistry

The picture’s a little weird on YouTube.

Boi-1da

Oh, yeah. I remember this one. This is really old, guys. Don’t judge me.

(music: G-Unit – “Red Light Green Light” / applause)

Anupa Mistry

Okay, so that’s a G Unit song.

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

And then I want to play something else that you made with Drake around the same time.

Boi-1da

OK. Classic, right here.

(music: Drake – “Do What You Do” / applause)

Oh, that boy was snapping. Thank you.

Anupa Mistry

That’s “Do What You Do” off Room for Improvement, his first mixtape. I feel like dynamically those are pretty similar, both of those tracks. What I’m trying to say is listening back to them now, they sound very of their time. Peak mixtape era rap. Can you talk about making those beats?

Boi-1da

Yeah. The G-Unit song was the first song I’ve ever... Back in the days, I would always make beats for 50 Cent. 50 Cent was one of my favorite artists at the time. He was the biggest hip-hop artist at that time, so a lot of my beats were very 50 Cent-esque. It just so happened I had a friend… He was filming a movie, Get Rich or Die Trying, in Toronto. I had a friend that was on set that was with him every single day. So he’s like, “Yeah, give me one of your beat CDs. I’m going to hand it over to 50 and see what happens.”

He ended up handing it over to him, and he ended up using it and reaching out. That was the first time I ever got paid for any music. He actually used that song in his video... He had a video game called Blood in the Sand or something like that.

Anupa Mistry

How much did you get paid for that?

Boi-1da

They gave me $5,000, which was... At the time, I think I was 17, so I was like, “Oh, that’s pretty huge for me.”

Anupa Mistry

What did you do with that money?

Boi-1da

I think I bought a really bad car with it. It got me from A to B, but...

Anupa Mistry

I don’t know. To me this sounds very different from the Boi-1da we’ve come to know. Obviously it’s still your sound and it’s still something that people identify with you. What I think is interesting is that hip-hop over time has grown to really embrace more of a composition based approach. You can hear it now in young people. They’re really thinking about songwriting and thinking about the song as a whole. Were you thinking about that at the time?

Boi-1da

At the time, kind of, but not really because I was more into hip-hop at the time. Later on in my life, I got really deeper into other kinds of music like r&b, pop music and what not, but at the time, I was mainly just focusing on beats and trying to get somebody on the beat. I wasn’t really thinking about songs in general. I was just thinking about making beats at the time.

Anupa Mistry

Making beats for your favorite rappers.

Boi-1da

Now it’s a little bit different, but at the time, definitely I was just thinking about the beats.

Anupa Mistry

Do you remember when that transition happened from thinking about just beats, hip-hop, the structure that you knew, and then going into something more 360?

Boi-1da

Yeah. The transition of that happened when I just started going out there and meeting different people, meeting different producers, engineers, guys that play keys in different instruments and what not. Even meeting [Noah] 40 [Shebib] for the first time was... It was me, him, Drake and my boy, D. We were doing a song for Divine Brown.

Anupa Mistry

An amazing, amazing singer.

Boi-1da

Yeah, amazing singer. That was really the first time seeing somebody talk to me about structuring the song and putting effects and dropping things out. 40 was one of the first people I’d seen that showed me things like that. And my boy D, D10, he’s also a producer that did a lot of early songs for Drake. It was just really getting out there and being around different people that their knowledge is greater than mine, just listening to them and taking their insight.

Anupa Mistry

Did it ever feel intimidating?

Boi-1da

No, not really, I always had a student mentality. I just wanted to learn. I knew I didn’t know much, I just basically wanted to learn as much as I can.

Anupa Mistry

What about transitioning from being a more amateur beatmaker to going into an actual studio? Can you talk about maybe the first time you went into a studio?

Boi-1da

Yeah. The first time I went into a real studio was the studio that me and Drake used to actually work out of. I forget the name of it. That was definitely my first time being in a studio, being on a board, seeing people record. It was really just me and the basement doing beats before. Then getting into the studio with D and Drake and 40, learning the whole process of how the songs are made and that was a game changer for me.

Anupa Mistry

Who taught you? Who was in the studio helping you learn what every button and ever knob meant?

Boi-1da

A lot of it, at the beginning was a guy named Ricardo Jones, he was the guy who owned the studio that me and Drake were working out of at the time, and then after later on it was being around 40. Meeting 40 and seeing all the stuff he’s doing in the studio.

Anupa Mistry

What was that learning curve like? Did it take you a long time? Do you still feel...

Boi-1da

I’m still learning. I’m really now just digging deep into it, but I’m still learning about recording, using Pro Tools and different stuff and building a song. I don’t think I know everything. I know what a good song is, and how to make one and what it sounds like, but every aspect of recording, I can’t say I know everything because I don’t.

Anupa Mistry

We’ll get back to your idea of what a good song is and what it sounds like. You started working with Drake about 2005, 2006, around then?

Boi-1da

Yeah, around then. Like 2005.

Anupa Mistry

How involved were you and obviously 40 and the other people around… As producers how involved were you in defining the vision that we’ve come to see?

Boi-1da

I was very involved. I think I was one of the first people to start working with Drake. I worked with him on his first mixtape, Room For Improvement. I met him through my boy, D10, who is a producer. He would always talk about him and he introduced us and I was there from the jump, and it was just all about understanding him, his vision and what he wanted to do.

Anupa Mistry

What was his vision at the time? How would he communicate that to you?

Boi-1da

At the time he was making very soulful music. There was a lot of soul samples, he just wanted to flip every single soul sample into a beat. He just wanted this specific sound and I was helping him out with it.

Anupa Mistry

That was early Kanye?

Boi-1da

Yeah. Very Kanye-esq kind of time and that’s when Kanye came out with College Dropout. It was around that time, and he was just trying to figure it out. I was trying to figure it out with him. 40 came in a little bit later than that. He came around like the second mixtape, Comeback Season, but that was when we started learning more about how to record and what mics sound right with his voice and presets and what not.

Anupa Mistry

You guys were learning all that stuff together.

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

That’s really cool. Who else was there? Maybe set some of the scene, because I think it’s really... Now almost a decade later, I think people look back on that time as a bunch of really interesting people coming together and figuring stuff out. As you, Drake, 40, who else was there that was really maybe low key, instrumental in creating OVO as we know it today?

Boi-1da

It’s just the same people, to be honest. It was really me, 40, Drake, Oliver on the other sides of things, not really music, but branding side of things. But it’s really us, to be honest.

Anupa Mistry

How much did Toronto radio, at the time, inform what you were doing? Did it at all? Because we had an urban radio station at the time, Flow 93.5, we do not have one anymore.

Boi-1da

No, it’s gone. They showed us a lot of love. We would just submit the songs and we gained relationships with the guy... I think the programs director’s name was Justin Dumont at the time, and he really liked our songs, so we had that relationship with him, and anytime we had new songs to put out we just send it straight to him and he always loved it. He’d give us a lot of play on the radio. We get a lot of play on Canadian radio. It was cool at the time, because we were just kids and all our songs were getting played on radio, it was kind of a confidence boost. Gave us that confidence to say we could take it a little bit further.

Anupa Mistry

It sound really special, because now, I think that’s something that people, at least in Toronto, that I know of, like really struggle with. Wanting to hear themselves played on radio and not getting that opportunity.

Boi-1da

We don’t even have a radio station anymore. It’s just like what they play are old school songs now.

Anupa Mistry

I don’t even know, honestly. What other Toronto artist were you hearing on the radio that you were like really... Who, maybe, were people that you looked up to? I think when you look back to some of Drake’s earliest music, you can really hear... I think we all talk about k-os, and what k-os did was really influential.

Boi-1da

k-os is amazing. He’s definitely an artist that was ahead of the curb. He was making just different music and it was just dope. He was just himself.

Anupa Mistry

He was singing.

Boi-1da

Yeah. He wasn’t afraid to be himself and just sing songs. At the time it was all rap and hardcore stuff and he was just the same guy with the beard dancing around in his video, he just didn’t care and it was cool. He just was himself. It’s encouraging because it’s like, Drake came out as an artist and he was just himself. He wasn’t trying to be anything else, he was just telling his story just like k-os was. So, he was an inspiration as well.

Anupa Mistry

So then, “Best Day Ever Had” happened. What year is that? 2007?

Boi-1da

I think that might have been 2006 or ’07.

Anupa Mistry

Does everyone know it? Should we play it? We can play it.

Boi-1da

I don’t remember what year it was.

Anupa Mistry

We’ll just play a little music.

(music: Drake – “Best I Ever Had” / applause)

Boi-1da

Great song. Thank you. That song was great.

Anupa Mistry

It was nice revisiting a lot of these songs preparing for this.

Boi-1da

Yeah. I haven’t heard them for a minute.

Anupa Mistry

When that happened, how did your day to day routine changed? Your work life, I mean.

Boi-1da

At the time my day to day routine really didn’t change. At that time when that song was out I was still working a day job. I was working at Winters, and I was just making music. It’s funny, because Drake was actually on tour before that, with [Lil’ Wayne], because he had heard him and just wanted to bring him on tour and he wanted to sign him. At the time the mixtape So Far Gone came out, I wasn’t too Internet savvy, so I didn’t know how well the mixtape was doing. So I ended up taking a trip to Atlanta to go see one of Drake’s shows, and kid you not, when I got off the plane and got into the cabin the song was playing nonstop. Every radio station. I couldn’t believe it, because I thought it was just at home. Again, our song came out and it’s just local radio and whatnot, but the song was literally being played everywhere. And I remember going to the rehearsal with him for his show in Atlanta at 12:00 noon or 2:00, and there was a line up starting already. I really didn’t know what was going on. Because back home when the whole buzz was happening and Drake was blowing up…

Anupa Mistry

This is before Twitter.

Boi-1da

Yeah. This is before Twitter, before anything, so I couldn’t really tell what was going on. But we ended up going back to the show that night. The show was at 10:00 or something, and it was literally pandemonium outside. I didn’t believe it because I was like, “Is this really happening?” I didn’t expect this. We came from literally maybe like a month prior being in the basement... Being at his house in his basement kinda like, “Man, this shit is hard man. Are we gonna make it? I don’t know what’s next? What’s the next move?” And then to fast forward, packed show, Jermaine Dupri was there, Usher, everybody was there. And I was like, “This is surreal.” The song that me and him did is literally taking off on the Billboard charts. I had no idea. I had never seen anything like it. A really cool surprise and it was an amazing time.

Anupa Mistry

So when the success of that song finally did start to make it’s way back to you financially, whatever, from the business perspective, how did your work life change? Cause I imagine you know, that you were working a day job. Did you quit your job?

Boi-1da

Yeah, I ended up quitting, thank god.

Anupa Mistry

You’re still at Winters. [laughs]

Boi-1da

Yeah I still work in Winters guys. Benefits [laughter]. What’s it called? So, yeah, I ended up quitting my job obviously and then I was just getting a lot of offers from publishing companies and people. Other producers were trying to sign me. You know, I was getting phone calls and emails from different producers, publishing companies. Getting offers for publishing deals and whatnot. And I was like, you know, I didn’t have any money or anything at the time so I was like, it’s time to... I may wanna take one of these offers and I ended up doing a publishing deal with Sony. It was pretty good publishing deal and it kinda helped me, you know, stabilize myself. And I was able to literally sit back at home and just create and worry about and just create music.

Anupa Mistry

I think that’s really important for a lot of people to kinda think about that business side of things. How did you know you were making the right decision? Who was helping you figure that stuff out?

Boi-1da

I knew I was making the right decision cause I was broke and I needed some money so it was definitely the right decision.

Anupa Mistry

I mean like, how did you know it was the right deal?

Boi-1da

It was the right deal because I had a great lawyer and he would just inform me of the terms and everything. He was like, “You don’t wanna be in anything too long.” It was really comfortable for me. It was really short. It was a good amount of money and the opportunities that were contractually promised were promising. So I ended up just taking it because for me it was all about being comfortable. You know, this was a dream. I’m like, “I just wanna sit and make music.” So, you know, this is gonna help me out a lot. We got the deal to a point where it was a good deal and we ended up doing it.

Anupa Mistry

Is there something that maybe looking on that time when you were getting all these offers you would have done differently?

Boi-1da

I would have maybe waited because I had a bunch of other songs come out and I could have got an even better deal but it doesn’t even matter because everything... I don’t regret anything. I think it happened at a good time. It helped me out a lot. And I was able to just lock in and focus on music.

Anupa Mistry

Kind of just sticking with that era, a little bit more I mean.... You and 40 are kinda the crux of Drake’s sound. How did you and 40 develop a working process? Can you talk a little bit about that? And has it changed over the years?

Boi-1da

Yeah, it’s different time to time. You know, me and 40, we don’t directly work with each other all the time but we’ll bounce ideas off each other here and there. We’re the kinda guys that just like to be in our own space and then if we have something... If I can do something for him, help him out on the production side and vice versa then we help each other out but we kinda go in our own corners and do our own thing.

Anupa Mistry

Was it always like that?

Boi-1da

Yeah, but then, if it’s like, Drake wants something specific then we’ll spearhead it together. But you know, for the most part, I have my ideas, he has his. We kind of have two completely different sounds. So it’s like, sometimes we combine it together or add on or help each other and whatnot.

Anupa Mistry

How do you think… When you guys do have two completely different sounds and they’re in service of one artist, how do you... What do you think it is about what you guys do that compliments the other? What is it about what you do that compliments what 40 does?

Boi-1da

I think it’s with both of us, we just bring two different sides out of him musically. So, I kinda bring out that energy out of him. 40 kinda brings that emotion outta him. So, it works hand in hand and at different times. And then sometimes we just help each other and combine it together. You know? Do stuff like that.

Anupa Mistry

OK so we’ll listen to some of the energy. And then maybe some of the... Well, we’ll listen to some of the energy first. But it’s not the song, “Energy.”

Boi-1da

Oh I thought you were like trying to set it up.

(music: Drake – “Over” / applause)

Thank you. Yeah that was great. That was a good one.

Anupa Mistry

When was the last time you listened to that before today?

Boi-1da

Yeah, I haven’t heard any of these in a while.

Anupa Mistry

So, that song is really musically interesting. How did it come together?

Boi-1da

That song came together... We were just... It was really, a lot of it was Drake’s idea. He really wanted something very triumphant. That was his first single off Thank Me Later. So, you know, he kept stressing something triumphant so I was just trying out a bunch of different things. I ended working on that with a producer named Nick Brongers who, he does a lot of choir like symphony. Like big... His sound is very big and triumphant. So, we ended up working on that together and after I made that I knew it would be perfect for something that he wanted. You know, it was a time when he was on tour so I wasn’t able to really sit in there with him. So, I ended up just creating that and sending it over to him. And he loved it and ended up sending the song back to me for me to hear and I was like, “Yeah this is perfect.”

Anupa Mistry

What was it like working with Nick who, you know as you said, kinda works with this orchestral sound and stuff? It’s kinda different from all the other stuff you’re doing.

Boi-1da

No, Nick is great. He kinda just brought something. I did a lot of tracks with Nick. Working with him kinda just brought something out. Like a different sound. He brought a different element to my production and it was pretty cool. He had a lot of interesting stuff that he was doing and that we’d do together. So it was really fun working with Nick and he’s hilarious. Like one of the funniest guys I ever saw.

Anupa Mistry

I’m gonna skip some years and I’m gonna play another song.

Boi-1da

OK.

Anupa Mistry

That you did.

(music: Drake – “Pound Cake” / applause)

So that’s “Pound Cake” featuring Jay Z.

Boi-1da

Yeah, that was big. That was one of my favorite tracks that I ever made.

Anupa Mistry

I love it cause it feels like winter time to me.

Boi-1da

I think it was made in the winter too.

Anupa Mistry

Sounds like it.

Boi-1da

Yeah, that one came about after I had heard, Drake was on tour again so I wasn’t around him a lot but he ended up coming back home and I sat down with him and he played me the majority of Nothing Was the Same, the album. At the time I just felt like it was missing that kind of moment on the album.

Anupa Mistry

How would you describe that moment?

Boi-1da

It was just something like he needed to get something off his chest in this rap. He needed to rap on a song like he did on that. I went back in my corner at home. That’s actually an Ellie Goulding sample. I forget the name of the song but one of my guys had played me that sample and I was like, “This is so dope.” We ended up flipping it into the beat and the rest is history. I just brought it back to Drake and he was like, “This is exactly what I need.”

Anupa Mistry

I wanted to play those two songs, “Over” was 2010 I believe and that was 2015, skipping about five years in there. I think both of those are interesting because one’s really loud and brash and the other one’s more low-key. I think it’s an example of how you’ve grown to incorporate more subtlety, dynamics, that kind of thing. Can you talk about that?

Boi-1da

Yeah. It’s just growth as a producer and that track doesn’t have really much to it and it’s just me figuring out sometimes less is more. Sometimes there’s a time to get loud and have big, bright stuff going on but for the moment and what was going on with him at the time. It’s like Drake described he’s talking about everything that’s going on with him and I was like, “You need one of these moments.” It was just understanding what was going on with him and basically turning it into a canvas for him, to paint his picture on.

Anupa Mistry

When you’re in a groove of something sounding really good like making a bunch of songs that sound... I’m thinking about “Over,” “Forever,” these songs that have a similar energy and they’re all sounding really good. How do you break out of that pattern?

Boi-1da

I don’t know. To be honest a lot of time when I make music it’s almost like brain farts, it’s just ideas. It’s just like this is my idea for the day, this is how I feel today. Maybe it will resonate with this person or that person or whoever but a lot of the time it’s just random stuff. I’ll just be making music and who knows what’s going to come out. Sometimes I’ll do something very specific like “Pound Cake,” but the majority of the time it’s just little ideas that pop out of my brain.

Anupa Mistry

Do you feel like there’s been a moment in your career so far when you were like, “OK I’m really done with this thing,” whatever it is. Maybe it’s software, maybe it’s a certain sound or idea. Do you feel like you’ve had a break from certain things and wanted to move onto something else?

Boi-1da

I wouldn’t say that because with my production it’s really all over the place. To be honest you can go through that list of songs and there’s always different sounds, different cadences, different energies to everything that I do. I just try to keep it moving, try to keep it interesting. Instead of just sticking to one sound I treat it like art, where people have one of ones, two of twos, three of threes. I’ll get into moods like that. I’ll make one specific type of thing and then switch to the other thing. I always try to keep it moving and try to keep it interesting.

Anupa Mistry

Let’s play something else. You got so many songs.

Boi-1da

Way too much songs.

Anupa Mistry

I couldn’t decide actually so I’m like, “Let’s just play all of them.”

(music: Jay Z ft. Rick Ross – “FuckWithMeYouKnowIGotIt” / applause)

I like this song. Yeah. Jay Z song even though we just heard Rick Ross from Magna Carta Holy Grail. I wanted to play this song actually after playing “Pound Cake” and after playing... What was the song I played before that, I forgot. “Over.” Because I actually think it marries the energy of both of those songs, it’s subtle but it’s aggressive too. Can you talk about making that song?

Boi-1da

Yeah it’s crazy. That song was actually a Rick Ross song prior and I think he was in a session with Jay Z and he ended up calling me and telling me about it. He was in a session with Jay Z and he played that song. Jay Z’s like, “I need this. I need to get on this, I need to have this song.”

Anupa Mistry

This was before “Pound Cake” too.

Boi-1da

Yeah this was before Pound Cake.

Anupa Mistry

Yeah, what did it feel like to have someone be like, “Jay Z, I heard my song.”

Boi-1da

Man, it was crazy because it was like DJ Khaled and Rick Ross calling me on the phone. You can imagine how that sounds [laughter]. They’re calling me and telling me the whole story of how I went down and they’re really excited because I think, I’m not sure if that was Rick Ross’ first song with Jay Z. I don’t think so but they’re just really excited about it and it was a cool beat. I made that beat with another producer named Vinylz, a producer I worked closely with. It’s crazy, that little melody idea he had he was going to delete it and then he’s played it for me and he’s like, “I was going to delete this.” But I’m like, “Wow, what are you doing bro?” Me and him ended up making the whole beat to it and we put the Pimp C sample at the beginning of it and everything. He almost deleted that, that was crazy.

Anupa Mistry

When you heard it and he was like, “I’m going to delete this,” why did you say, “Don’t delete it.” What was it about it that caught your ear?

Boi-1da

It was dope, it was that little melody line right there that’s like you could turn this into something crazy, which is what I did. I ended up building the whole beat around that one melody line. Sometimes I’ll hear one thing and I’ll just take it and turn it into something else.

Anupa Mistry

That’s the epitome of one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.

Boi-1da

Exactly. I couldn’t believe he was going to delete that. I was like, “That’s really good.”

Anupa Mistry

At this point, now not at the point of the song but at this point you’ve been in the studio... Well maybe you can correct me if I’m wrong, maybe you haven’t been in the studio with all these people but you’ve done stuff for Kanye West, been in the studio with Dr. Dre. Then you’ve also worked with a lot of young and hungry, emerging producers. What do you think is something that you’ve observed that is a defining characteristic of a successful producer?

Boi-1da

The defining characteristic I would say is just being open-minded and being open to different ideas. Being open to working with other people. Just being open in general. I never turned down any opportunity or any idea to work with somebody or do anything. I always have an open mind and I feel like that’s what being a successful producer is. Keeping your mind open and trying to push the envelope with everything that you do.

Anupa Mistry

Whose the wildest, most random session you’ve ever been, that you didn’t expect?

Boi-1da

Wildest session.

Anupa Mistry

How open-minded are you is what I’m trying...

Boi-1da

Pretty open-minded. There’s some people that do some pretty off-the-wall stuff in the stuff. I’m not an off-the-wall person myself but I respect people’s creativity. If that’s what you need to do to get creative you do that. I’m going to do me but we’ll mix it up together and see what we can do that…

Anupa Mistry

What’s something that you’ve observed someone who you admire, maybe not even someone who you admire but just someone you’ve worked with. What’s something that you’ve seen them do that you’re like, “Oh I want to take that because I think it will actually make me more efficient or more...” I don’t know. A particular technique or a tool.

Boi-1da

Well, I could say I’ve been in the studio with [Timbaland] a few times, and what I found that’s really dope about working with him is he literally, like, records everything. And even if, like, he has something recording in the studio at all times. And even if he has, like, an idea to, like, literally drum something on like a table, he’ll record it and put it into his music. Or, like, jingle keys or something, you know?

Like, he really is insane with it, like, he just, any, like anything, he’ll just put it into his music. So, that was the first time working with him, and I never seen anything like that, so I found that dope. And, you know, he’ll take his own voice and put an effect on it and make his own voice sound like a guitar, or... Really different stuff. You know. So, that was pretty cool. That was something that I seen that was really different and that I took with me. You know, you can make something from really anything.

Anupa Mistry

So, I mean, earlier I mentioned that last year was a big year for you. You’ve been professionally producing for pretty much over a decade now.

Boi-1da

Yup.

Anupa Mistry

But that’s me saying last year was a big year for you. I mean, looking back on your career, you know, when did things actually start to feel big league for you?

Boi-1da

It always, like, once I started doing stuff, it always felt big league. And, you know, it’s different every time. There’s never gonna be a time when you’re always at a peak, you know. I feel like with music, it’s like, for me, it’s just spikes, you know, like any creativity.

You know, sometimes I’ll be on fire with it, and sometimes I’ll just be chillin’, you know. So, you know, last year was a huge year for me, but I’ve had big years prior to that. I’d say last year, professionally, has probably been my biggest year. I’ve done my biggest songs I’ve ever done, but, you know, it’s all a spike. It’s up and downs.

Anupa Mistry

I feel like, for a lot of people, those slumps can be really depressing, for some people, maybe not for all. How do you use your time wisely?

Boi-1da

I use my time wisely by doing other things in the down time. You know, everybody, realistically everybody has down time. Everybody’s not always on point always, and sometimes people they don’t realize that and they will get down about it, but it’s nothing to get down about.

You know, if you’re uninspired, it just means that you need to go do something else, you know? Go on a trip. Go watch a movie. Go do something you never did before. You know? It’s just your mind telling you that you just need to do something different. You know?

Anupa Mistry

Take a break.

Boi-1da

Yeah. Exactly. Take a break if needs be or, you know, figure something out but, you know, you don’t always need to be busting your brain in the studio always.

Anupa Mistry

And how have your goal posts changed? Like, as you kind of check things... I mean, maybe they weren’t on your list. Maybe producing “Work” with Rihanna wasn’t on your list, but as you achieve things, you know, I mean, what do you want to achieve next?

Boi-1da

What I want to achieve next is... Last week I ended up signing my first label and print deal with Universal, so I’m basically a owner of a record label now. And my next goal is to, you know, have a successful record label. Have an artist from my, my own artist, that I can, you know, bring to the level of success as other artists and just put out good music. You know?

Help people out as well. Sign Canadian artists, Canadian producers, people from my country. You know, even people not from my country as well. Just, you know, that’s my next goal is to reach that level of success, as like Dr. Dre or somebody like Timbaland, like Pharrell. Somebody like that. So, those are guys that I look up to and that’s, I feel like that’s my next goal that I wanna... I don’t want to. I’m going to. I’m gonna end up doing it.

Anupa Mistry

Does this label have a name?

Boi-1da

Yes. It does have a name. My label is One Music Records and, yeah, that’s the name. I thought I had something else to say after that, but I didn’t.

Anupa Mistry

I just wanna, I was gonna go onto something else, but why is it, I mean, we’re all Canadian in here, I think, unless someone has another citizenship. Why… Oh, we do have a guest from Iran. Yes, now I remember.

Why is it important for you to sign Canadian artists? Why is that something you wanna make a point of One Records?

Boi-1da

Because I feel like a lot of Canadian artists are going to America to do deals, and really, truly, you don’t really have to. There’s so much. There’s a budding infrastructure up here, and my goal is to build it from my country, you know? Like, I love America. No disrespect or anything, but I also love Canada. Canada’s done a lot for me. It’s a great country. And I want to do big things for my country rather than go across the border and, you know, help their infrastructure, but... Although, they need some help, but...

Yeah, I ended up doing the deal within Canada as well, but, you know, it’s just really to prove a point that you don’t really have to go anywhere, you know, we can do it from right here. In this time and age, literally, we can do it from here. You don’t need, like, the American labels. You don’t need, like, certain things. We have streaming. We have the Internet. It can all be done from here, and I’m... It’s kind of like a point to prove really, you know?

Anupa Mistry

I think staying in Whitby is also helping prove the point, too.

Boi-1da

Huge point. Point proven.

Anupa Mistry

OK. So, we’ve been alluding to last year, so let’s, let’s go revisit some things that happened last year.

(music: Rihanna – “Work” / applause) (music: Drake – “Controlla” / applause)

That was “Controlla” by Drake. So, first question, is the original version with [Popcaan] ever gonna be officially released?

Boi-1da

Hmm. I wanted it... It’s supposed to be a remix, but I don’t know what happened, but... I think it leaked and kind of ruined everything, but it’s whatever. I wanted that to happen, but...

Anupa Mistry

Well, it exists in our hearts and our memories, so...

Boi-1da

Yeah. It does.

Anupa Mistry

So, I played both of those songs back to back, because, I think, you know, last year was really interesting. I think, in pop music mainstreams audiences were really like, “What’s going on? What’s this dancehall thing that’s happening?”

You produced both of those tracks. Both by different artists. I mean, Drake was featured on “Work,” but what was going on behind the scenes? Did, like, everyone go to Jamaica at the same time? Like, why, why... Can you maybe break down a little bit of why there was this shift towards dancehall in pop music maybe? I know you produced both of those tracks, but, but...

Boi-1da

Well, behind the scenes it was just, you know, it was kind of like a conversation, like, I was just like, “I miss dancehall music.” I miss what it used to do. You know, how it used to make girls dance in the club and whatnot. Like, nobody dances anymore. It’s like, you hear trap music, but, you know, everybody just does that thing with their arms [laughter]. I don’t know what they call it. You know what I’m saying? But it’s like, I miss dancing, you know? People used to dance when they played, like, dancehall music. Just the whole energy of everything, so, it’s kind of crazy. I just ended up making some dance hall tracks kind of out of boredom. Not really boredom but it’s just like I just want to do something different.

Anupa Mistry

I can’t remember when those singles were released, maybe around the same time but which one came first in terms of writing those songs?

Boi-1da

I believe “Work” came first. They were kind of made around the same time but “Work” was released first. The track was made first and then afterwards I was still in that zone and I ended up doing “Controlla” and getting it over to Drake and he did his thing on that as well.

Anupa Mistry

How did you… When you were thinking about the fact that you missed dancehall how did you dig deeper into that inspiration for yourself? What were you... Did you go back to Jamaica? Were you talking to people? Were you listening to stuff? What were you doing to inspire yourself?

Boi-1da

I was just listening to a lot of dancehall music at that time. I was literally going on SoundCloud and typing in early ’90s dancehall, ’80s dancehall, early 2000. I was literally just listening to it all day like, just Sean Paul on a playlist the whole time and just getting in that zone in that creative space. A lot of that inspired a lot of the production I was doing at that time. I ended up doing those two. I have a lot more songs too as well with that same vibe and that same energy but at that time I was really fiending to hear something different. I was like, “Music is going in a similar direction and I want to do something a little bit outside the box.” So I just ended up doing a bunch of production beats that were similar at that time.

Anupa Mistry

Did it feel different for you? Because they have a much different energy from what we’re used to hearing from you.

Boi-1da

Yeah it was fun. I was having a lot of fun. At the time I was uninspired and I was like, “Man maybe I need to do something different,” so I was having fun when I was making those records cause it was just different. It was different feel, different bounce and different energy. I was just trying to bring something creative to the table.

Anupa Mistry

How did you know that “Work” was gonna be a hit or did you know?

Boi-1da

Oh yeah. On first listen I was like, “Yeah this is like annoyingly catchy.” So I’m like, “There’s no way this is not gonna be a hit record,” as soon as I heard it. Same with “Controlla” I just knew from the jump both of them were hit records.

Anupa Mistry

We should... I mean I think there’s something interesting to talk about in terms of the sample that was used for “Work.” I’m gonna play the sample and then we can talk about that.

(music: Richie Stephens – “Sail Away riddim”)

Sorry it didn’t fade out. Do you know who produced that riddim?

Boi-1da

It was a guy named Richie Stephens not Richie Stephens, what was his name? Yeah Richie Stephens I believe.

Anupa Mistry

That’s from 1998 I believe.

Boi-1da

Yup.

Anupa Mistry

Can you break down what a riddim is for people who might not know?

Boi-1da

Well basically in Jamaica the way how music works in Jamaica they have, if you guys don’t know already, they have a riddim which is like a beat and every artist will just go on the same beat and then have different songs on the same beat. It’s like literally if you play it at a party it’s that same beat for the next 12 minutes but it’s all different songs and it’s a great feeling because it’s a great beat so you just get different variations, different songs, different moments on it. That was actually, growing up was one of my favorite riddims. There’s a bunch of songs on that riddim but I just remember my dad always playing that. I wanted to, that little melody line in there, I wanted to make something with that. So while making the “Work” beat I incorporated that in it and it just worked out perfectly. So no pun intended.

Anupa Mistry

Yeah the riddims are really interesting because you... Oh work. [laughter]

Boi-1da

That was good right?

Anupa Mistry

It took me a minute. It’s interesting because you get to hear artists, some people come really aggressive over it. Some people become hyper melodic. Some people slow things down. Was there a particular artist who was on the “Sail Away” riddim that... Cause when I played it you were like, “Oh you’re just playing the instrumental.” Was there a track?

Boi-1da

Honestly all of the tracks on that riddim were dope. There was one with Beenie Man that was really dope. Then there’s one with the guy Richie Stephens I think, he was singing over it. Maybe there’s like eight songs on it but I just remember all them being really dope and they all sound different, like they’re all just different moments. There’s ones straight singing, rapping on it. It was cool. It was a dope riddim.

Anupa Mistry

So you more recently starting writing?

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

Can you talk about that?

Boi-1da

Yeah it’s something I’m really just getting into but it’s been going well so far. I co-wrote the chorus for “Blacker the Berry” by Kendrick Lamar and… That and a hook for a Meek Mill album way before the whole beef. I’m kind of two for two with it but it’s something… I’m really new to writing. I’m more on the melodic side of things but I’m really just getting into it now.

Anupa Mistry

You want to talk a little bit about the “Blacker the Berry” thing because you wrote the hook for that and is that how Assassin got placed on that track?

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

Assassin is a dancehall artist.

Boi-1da

Yeah Assassin is a dancehall artist. That was all Kendrick’s idea really to get Assassin on it but we had written a hook, me and a writer named Izquierdo had written a hook on it. You know Kendrick was vibing with the hook a lot but he said he wanted a reggae guy to do it. So we ended up getting Assassin and he kind of took our words and made it his own basically. So it was cool. It was a cool moment because he just came out of nowhere. Nobody was expecting that.

Anupa Mistry

I think we should just listen to it cause it sounds really cool and it sounds good in here so we should probably just listen to it. Do you know when Assassins part comes in on the track?

Boi-1da

Yeah it’s in the chorus it comes in like I don’t know what time exactly.

Anupa Mistry

Skip ahead a little.

Boi-1da

I think it’s like one minute into it or something.

(music: Kendrick Lamar – “The Blacker The Berry” / applause)

Anupa Mistry

So you were just telling me that it sounded very different from what we just heard. So what did it sound like?

Boi-1da

We had ended up writing a hook like I had made that beat and we just liked the beat a lot and we were just talking about topics, just different topics and the topic was getting mistreated being black, so we were like, “Why don’t we just try a hook on that? Maybe like Kanye would like it or something.” I remember he made that song “New Slaves” at the time. So we ended up writing a hook. I forgot how the lyrics go but it’s similar to that. I’m not gonna even try to rap it for you because I don’t remember and I’ll probably sound ridiculous.

Anupa Mistry

Were you thinking about it as like to be delivered in Patois or were you…

Boi-1da

No it was really just delivered straight forward and it was really on some like... You hear what Kendrick’s talking about. He’s kind of describing the inequalities of the struggle, of sometimes, of being black. So we made a hook like that. I wish I could just find it and pull it up for you but, it’s somewhere in my email. Yeah we were just talking about that on the hook and he ended up hearing it and he’s like, “That’s really dope.” I think he wanted to do a song like that anyways and it kind of inspired him a little bit but it was really Kendrick’s idea to get a... He wanted to hear how it would sound with a reggae artist over it.

Anupa Mistry

I was gonna ask if writing has helped you bring more of the Jamaican influence into music but I feel like you just answered that it hasn’t necessarily.

Boi-1da

Yeah, no, I definitely I am not going to be doing any Patois on any songs any time soon.

Anupa Mistry

How has writing and thinking about writing helped change the way that you produce? Do you think about music differently?

Boi-1da

Sometimes. It’s made me make a lot of my productions a little bit more simple because it’s easier to write to stuff when there’s not that much going on. It’s really made me learn to keep the canvas as plain as it can be.

Anupa Mistry

I want to play one more song that kind of fits into this theme a little bit. I think this also came out last year.

(music: PARTYNEXTDOOR – “Only You” / applause)

Boi-1da

Thank you.

Anupa Mistry

That was a really beautiful song actually.

Boi-1da

That was great.

Anupa Mistry

By Partynextdoor called “Only You,” and you guys worked on that together.

Boi-1da

Yeah we worked on that together. That was like I said, around the same time when we were having that discussion of... Party is Jamaican too. He actually wrote “Work” for Rihanna as well.

Anupa Mistry

The reference track is amazing.

Boi-1da

Oh, yeah, it’s really good. So at the time he understood what I was talking about and I kind of had that discussion with him too. I was like, “This is what I miss.” And he’s like, “Yeah, I miss that too man.” He’s Jamaican as well and we just miss making that kind of... Hearing that kind of music. So we’re just making it and just having fun making it.

Anupa Mistry

Yeah. That’s what I was going to ask you about. It must have been nice to be in the studio with him making that music because you don’t have to explain what you’re talking about.

Boi-1da

Not at all. He knew exactly what to do with that, exactly. All I had to do was just... I just made it and played it for him and he had a song in literally an hour. Yeah. He’s great.

Anupa Mistry

So over the years I feel like I’ve asked a lot of West Indian artists this questions, but I’m curious as to what you have to say about it. I mean, what do you think it is about how dancehall is structured that allows it to resonate with a global or mainstream audience?

Boi-1da

I just think it’s the riddim really and the cadences. A lot of the time if you listen to a lot off dancehall, a lot of reggae it’s really not much to it. It’s really just the pocket that make... It’s the groove that really makes people want to dance and makes people feel a certain way. So that’s really what it is, and I just think sometimes people just want to dance. People want to go and hear some fun music. They want to dance and party and have a good time and feel good.

Anupa Mistry

So we’ve talked about your relationship with Drake and 40 a bit, but there’re other members of this extended family, I mean, outside of OVO or... I’m talking about Frank Dukes, Vynilz, Matthew Burnett and Jordan Evans who are working with Daniel Caesar right now. What brings you guys together creatively?

Boi-1da

Creatively Matthew Burnett and Jordan Evans they actually went to my high school when I was... My last year in high school was when I met Matt and Jordan. They were ninth grade. That was on my way out. I was good friends with Jordan’s sister. We were in the same grade. So we were close friends and she would always tell me that Jordan is really interested in music, he wants to learn from me. I was like, “Sure. Just send him over.” And he brought over Matt and I kind of mentored those guys from real early. I ended up signing them.

They were the first producers I ever signed and we worked for years. We made some incredible songs together. We did “Not Afraid” for Eminem. Me and Matthew did “Up All Night” for Drake. We have so much songs together. Those guys are great, man. Very skilled music people. And Jordan has a great ear for music. Matt is very skilled on the keys and other instruments and whatnot. And we worked together for years. We still work together. Now they’re off doing their thing with Daniel Caesar and it’s incredible. I always appreciated their ear for music and their ideas and everything they did.

And Frank Dukes as well. He’s another amazing guy that I worked with from years ago. Years ago, I knew Frank... The first Drake song I’ve ever heard ever was produced by Frank Dukes. So I’ve known Frank for a really time and we finally got a chance to sit and work together on music and make a bunch of incredible songs as well together.

Anupa Mistry

It’s cool because you mentored Matt and Jordan, you’ve known Frank for a long time. Now you guys all really have... You have your own things going on. I mean, as professionals how do you exchange information or is it like working together now that you’re not mentoring people or now that it’s not so lose?

Boi-1da

It’s still the same. Those guys are just friends when it all comes down to it. Frank, Matt, Jordan, Vinylz, Seven, whoever it is that I work with. So, at the end of the day before music and everything they’re my friends. So, working with them is just like hanging out and having fun, and then we all just share our ideas and make something incredible out of it. So, it’s still the same. Nothing changed. We’re all great friends though, so.

Anupa Mistry

That’s cool. That’s reassuring that when things take you can still just hang out and jam.

Boi-1da

Of course yeah because we’re all doing it together. We worked on stuff together that works, and Matt and Jordan they’re doing their own thing. Daniel Caesar, Frank has a million things going on. And since we’re all a family, we’re all a unit we all help each other out. We all have what it needs to be. If Matt, Jordan ever need anything I’m always here for them. Frank needs anything and vice versa and anybody who I work with. It’s all a friendship. It’s all a small little community that we got going on, so.

Anupa Mistry

I’m going to play a song that you and Frank did together. I mean, you’ve done a bunch.

Boi-1da

Oh, yeah, a whole lot.

Anupa Mistry

Maybe you can decide which one.

Boi-1da

No you pick.

Anupa Mistry

OK. Well, we all know I’m just going to press play on Rihanna.

Boi-1da

Oh shoot.

(music: Rihanna – “Sex With Me” / applause)

Great song. Great song.

Anupa Mistry

I love that you call all your songs great [laughs].

Boi-1da

I like that one a lot in particular.

Anupa Mistry

So you can correct me if I’m wrong. I was reading about the song and I saw there’s a credit for Chester Hanson of BadBadNotGood on there. You produced this with Frank. So I’m wondering is that because there’s a Kingsway Music Library sample on there or...

Boi-1da

I believe so. I’m not 100% sure. I know they’re definitely involved. They do a lot of work with Frank. It was something that Frank had sent over. I know he does a lot of work with BadBadNotGood and my guy Tommy...

Anupa Mistry

Tommy over here.

Boi-1da

He knows it. So yeah, that was when he had passed that along and I just whipped up a track out of it.

Anupa Mistry

Can you explain what Kingsway Music Library is for everyone here.

Boi-1da

Kingsway Music Library, that was Frank Dukes and I believe… Frank Dukes and BadBadNotGood and it was just a library of samples that Frank put out online for producers to literally sample their samples. And there’s a few in there that I ended up using that made it on a lot of records.

Anupa Mistry

How important is a service or a product like that to something that you do?

Boi-1da

It’s very important because sometimes all it takes is just a small idea to spark something. You know, like it could be from anything. It could be from anyone. A lot of the time, I was really low on inspiration and whatnot and I would get some stuff from Frank and I’d be like, “Yeah, this is, this is dope. I can build something from this.” So I think it’s very important. And it’s very important because it sounds like the sample, but it’s not really a sample. [Sampling is very serious business] when you sample somebody’s record. You can get in all sorts of trouble, and all sorts of situations from that. So it’s a great way to work.

Anupa Mistry

Let’s hear one of those small ideas, just for context.

(music: Drake – “Zero to 100” / applause)

So you produced that? Drake zero to 100.

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

And this is where it came from.

(music: Adam Feeney and Chester Hansen – “Vibez” / applause)

So that was a Kingsway Music Library piece of music. I think it’s really cool that Kingsway exists, because it also allows young people, especially the young people who Frank’s working with, Tommy, Chester, all those guys, to get these credits on these big records.

Boi-1da

Oh of course.

Anupa Mistry

I mean I think it’s a really sustainable way of mentoring people.

Boi-1da

Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely is. And it’s just amazing, you know what they do, what Tommy or Frank, what they do together is just phenomenal. And you know, we just make great music out of it.

Anupa Mistry

How important is it for you to have younger producers in the studio with you?

Boi-1da

I think it’s very important. I don’t like to, there’s times when I’ll be in the studio by myself, and I’ll work on music by myself. But it’s so boring sometimes. I love to bounce ideas off of people, and just vibe in the studio with other and collaborate. I love collaborating. Some of my favorite producers collaborated with a lot of different producers and younger, fresh producers, you know what I’m saying, with fresh ideas. I think it’s very important. Helping people out, mentoring. And then also staying in touch with music. It can get ahead of you sometimes.

Anupa Mistry

How do you think that, I mean when you’re… What am I trying to say? I’m trying to say, what are younger producers doing differently now that kind of like blows your mind?

Boi-1da

It’s just, they’re really creative, and moving into all sorts of different directions. And it’s just nice to just hear fresh music from guys that are really just trying to get out there, and come up with new ideas and whatnot.

Anupa Mistry

I think people from here would kind of benefit from learning how to advocate for yourself when you’re a more emerging artist, maybe working with bigger artists. How do you, you’re obviously not an emerging artist, but you work with people, I mean you worked with like a Kanye, who has his ideas about his music. So how do you advocate for yourself in that scenario and your ideas?

Boi-1da

Well my ideas, you know this point it’s like, there’s not much advocation. So it’s just get in there and figure it out. With somebody like Kanye, it’s like you know what he’s going, he’s more like a composer at this point now. He will take something from one producer, and another producer, and mix it all together. And basically compose something from a bunch of different things. I know that’s how Kanye works, and you know, it’s just like that how he works, and that’s how he always works. You kind of have to respect the creativity at that point.

Anupa Mistry

Is there any specific thing that you might say, maybe obviously not working with someone like a Kanye, but for a young producer kind of going into a studio with someone who maybe has a little more power than them, how can they be like, “Well this is kind of how I feel about it as well.”

Boi-1da

It’s all about just getting into that place where you can both agree on, it’s art, so it’s all about getting into that place where it’s just good. But I mean there’s always going to be somebody bigger than somebody, know what I’m saying. There’s always going to be somebody bigger than Kanye, bigger than you, so it’s all about just being humble and just taking in the moment.

For me, working with Kanye is just like, “Hey man, shit you got an idea? You do what you do, because you’re Kanye West. You’ve been successfully doing, you’ve put out like what, five classic albums. You’re in the driver’s seat, know what I’m saying. I’m here for what I do, and let’s make this work.” You know I’m not going to try to and overpower him, he wasn’t an overbearing, overpowering person working with him. Sometimes you just got to humble yourself, and just do what you got to do and figure it out. And we ended up making a song on Life of Pablo, and it was kind of like that situation. I’m not mad at it, we made a great song.

Anupa Mistry

What situation you mean?

Boi-1da

Working with Kanye, basically I did a song on Kanye’s last album called “Real Friends.” The beat was basically taken from a bunch of beats, which was like a beat that Frank and I had done, and Kanye kind of ripped the sample, and then took some drums from Havoc, and the bassline from my beat, and mashed it all together. But that’s his creative genius. That’s Kanye being the composer that he is. He didn’t necessarily craft the beat himself, but it was his idea to take these elements from all these different beats and mash it together to make that beat.

It’s like, some people would be mad at that, “Oh man, you just took my bassline bro, like, what the fuck?” But I’m like, “Who cares man, we made a great song.” That’s all it’s about to me at the end of day, are we making a great song or not? You’re Kanye West, you know what you’re doing. I know what I bring to the table, and let’s just make it happen. That’s really just it. Some people literally get mad at that. I really and truly don’t care. It’s the way he does things, so I got to respect it.

Anupa Mistry

Thank you.

Boi-1da

Oh no problem.

Anupa Mistry

Thanks very much. Those are all of my questions, now is the best part, because you guys get to ask some questions. I think we’ll probably pass… I don’t know who’s in charge here, who’s, I can pass the mic around, that’s fine, I can do that. Oh, you have an actual mic, great. So questions for Boi-1da? And thank you, thank you very much. [applause]

Boi-1da

Oh no problem. Thank you. Thank you guys for listening, appreciate it.

Audience Member

Hello. Hi

Boi-1da

Hey.

Audience Member

You said you get sent a lot of music by men, do you ever get sent music by women?

Boi-1da

Oh, all the time. All the time.

Audience Member

Have you signed any women?

Boi-1da

Not yet, but I’m looking to. For instance, an artist had sent me her music, I don’t know if any of you heard this artist, Snoh Aalegra. She’s a girl, she’s from Stockholm. And she had sent me a song called “Time,” well just the acapella for it, and I ended up flipping that into a beat on Drake’s More Life album for the outro called “Do Not Disturb.” I work with women all the time. I work with female songwriters. I work with Starrah, I work with women all the time. That was like one of the instances where I’ve taken a song and just, I liked the song, and I just turned it into something else.

Anupa Mistry

I also didn’t mention that one your most well-known kind of protégés, or people that you’ve mentored is WondaGurl…

Boi-1da

Oh yeah, and her.

Anupa Mistry

Who took her name from your name basically.

Boi-1da

Yeah, yeah.

Anupa Mistry

Very successful young producer.

Boi-1da

Yes, a phenom actually. I met her when she was 15, and she just, I ended up mentoring her through the Remix Project and I met her at a beat battle. But she always had it. She’s great, and you know it’s like my little sis. I was just talking to her the other day about working together and getting in the studio together.

Anupa Mistry

She’s got magazine covers now man. She’s busy.

Boi-1da

Oh man, she’s big time. She was on Empire. That’s like huge. She’s on an episode. She’s acting in the show. I was like, “Wow.” Yeah. Crazy.

Anupa Mistry

Any more questions. Don’t be shy, guys.

Audience Member

Hey, man, I know you’re predominantly a hip-hop producer, and obviously you always are going to bring that kind of flavor to the table, but what was it like working with Lana Del Rey on her last album, who’s like definitely singer/songwriter/pop star?

Boi-1da

Yeah, working with Lana is great man. I love Lana so much. She’s such a good person. We ended up meeting each other in a session I had for another artist and that she is friends with. She ended up walking in and we just vibed with each other the whole time.

Apparently she said she always wanted to work with me, so I was like, “That’s dope.” I didn’t know that. I was kind of shocked, so I ended up getting in the studio the next day, and I just told her to come through. We exchanged information and we ended up working on that song “Summer Bummer” together. We did that song in like one day, and she loved it, and it was cool just combining both of our worlds into one, and that went on to I produced a lot of stuff on her next album that’s coming out as well. Like a lot.

Audience Member

That’s awesome.

Boi-1da

Yeah, it was built from there, and she’s great. Great person.

Audience Member

Amazing. Did the features come after, or was that something that was already planned?

Boi-1da

No, they came after. They were really her idea. She’s really close with [Rocky], and she was just like, “You think it would sound good with Rocky on there?” And I was like, “Hell, yeah.”

Audience Member

Man that’s amazing.

Boi-1da

Try it out, like let him try something on it, you know, and he ended up doing this thing on it.

Audience Member

Very cool man. Very cool.

Boi-1da

Thank you. Thank you.

Audience Member

Hello, you mentioned a lot of collaboration with 40 and D10, and I wanted to ask, because I remember in the early 2000s you worked with T-Minus, are you guys still working together? Is there still stuff going to come out with you two?

Boi-1da

Oh, yeah. Me and T-Minus actually did a slight bit of production on “Summer Bummer” as well, and he actually lives 5 minutes away from me, so we’re always at each other’s house, and he has a lot of dope stuff about to come out. He took a little break from music but he’s back, back working again and making amazing stuff.

Audience Member

Dope.

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

I know you got it in you.

Boi-1da

Yeah. You have a question sir, back there? [inaudible comment] Wow. I’m not. Stupid. It was funny.

Audience Member

You’re saying the G-Unit thing kind of started, it was the first beat you sold?

Boi-1da

Yeah, the G-Unit beat was the first beat I sold, and it was for 50’s video game. That was the first time I ever made money from music.

Audience Member

So if you didn’t have… Say one of us is wanting to get through to another artist, maybe not even someone as big, but just, and we don’t have a personal connection that someone can connect us through email or maybe we don’t have an agent or a manager or whoever, what’s the best way, if you want to write something for someone or you want to sell a beat to someone or you want to get through to someone that’s not in your circle, how can you do that?

Boi-1da

Well, doing things like being here. You’re here right now. That’s a good place to start, to meet people. You’re around all these creative people, Aria, I’m here too. Tommy’s over there. A lot of people doing cool stuff, so just getting out there and putting stuff on the Internet, going to events. Just familiarizing your face and yourself with people. It’s really about just getting out there and just showing people what you got. What you have. Instead of just being at home and maybe just posting stuff on the Internet all day, it’s always good to just get out there and let people see your face and meet people and speak to people, and do things like this. Coming to this is great.

Audience Member

All right. Thanks.

Boi-1da

Yeah, no problem.

Audience Member

So, I got to stop being weird. Start talking here.

Anupa Mistry

Well, now you have a network across the country, so it’s amazing.

Audience Member

Thank you.

Boi-1da

Exactly, exactly. Dope.

Anupa Mistry

There we go.

Audience Member

Hello.

Anupa Mistry

All the way from Mississauga, Ontario.

Audience Member

Yes.

Boi-1da

Right, sick.

Audience Member

You’ve obviously had an immense amount of success obviously in music, and you said that you started your label. Do you have any other entrepreneurial avenues that you’ve wanted to explore?

Boi-1da

Yeah, I actually invested a few years ago into legal weed. That’s a good one. I own a small piece of a plantation that’s about to be bought out by the government when everything is officially legalized. I have a publishing company. Yeah, it’s still a thing where it’s… I’m going to figure out other things and other avenues that I’m getting into. But right now I invested into those things. Even starting a management company. Yeah, there’s a few things I’m getting my hands into.

Anupa Mistry

That’s a good point that you bring up. What can you tell people here about just handling their business, protecting yourself at this stage in their careers. What can they do to arm themselves, on a business end, or legally?

Boi-1da

On a business end, definitely have the right people behind you, like accountants, lawyers, definitely to help you out. Because there’s a lot to understand, and somebody like myself, I’m a person that’s really just deeply rooted in music, and it’s like, if you don’t have people around you to explain what to do with your money. Money is a serious thing. A lot of people don’t understand it, and they’ll get money and just spend it and think it’s always going to be there.

Realistically I’m not going to be making music forever, you know. There could be that one day where it’s just like, it goes cold turkey for you. It happens to everybody, you know, so, I think in the meanwhile it’s all about figuring out what to do with your money and investing securely. I like to make sure I’m going to get my money back on anything I’m investing in, and being wise with your money. It’s very important.

Audience Member

Hey.

Boi-1da

Hey.

Audience Member

First of all, thank you for the samples you put out earlier this year.

Boi-1da

Oh, no problem.

Audience Member

I use that shit all the time. I know you’ve worked with so many people. Is there anyone out there that you’re aspiring to work with still?

Boi-1da

Aspiring to work with? Yeah, a lot of people. I’ve always wanted to do a song with Beyonce. I like her music a lot.

Audience Member

Yeah.

Boi-1da

I always get stuck on this question, because there’s so much people and I can’t remember anybody but Beyonce right now, I don’t know why.

Anupa Mistry

In every interview you’ve done, it’s always Beyonce, so we should just put that energy out into the world.

Boi-1da

Yeah, definitely Beyonce. I don’t know. I’ll probably remember afterwards.

Audience Member

Get back to me on it.

Boi-1da

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely get back to you on it. Yeah, there’s a lot.

Audience Member

Double the volume. Hey, what’s good?

Boi-1da

What’s up my guy?

Audience Member

You were talking about the radio, like how Drake got a lot of love from like Flow 93, and how that doesn’t exist right now. Like to me, it’s crazy that like “Get You,” I’ve never heard that on Canadian radio, like Daniel Caesar, because that shit’s huge, right?

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Audience Member

I was going to say, what do you think we need to change? Like something about Toronto that we don’t have like the real infrastructure that’s actually supporting the real shit that people are actually listening to. And it’s actually the youth culture and stuff, I feel like it’s not reflected in our media and infrastructure and stuff. What do you think has to change?

Boi-1da

I think what has to change is people like ourselves taking heed of that and doing something about it. You know, like how we’re talking about this right now, and people just being the people informing the people in power about situations like this, like how we don’t have certain songs on the radio. We don’t even have a radio station for that kind of music to play. I think it will all come into its own eventually, but just even thinking… Sorry, I’m stumbling over words, just even like the thought of it and the fact that we’re thinking about it is because it needs to be done, and I think eventually the right people will get that done and get more recognition to guys like that, that have a massive following but it’s not being heard where we’re from or anywhere.

Also, I think radio is kind of slowly dying. It might be done for all that, eventually, you know what I’m saying? Like streaming has completely taken over everything, and I couldn’t tell you the last time I listened to the radio, to be honest. That just might be it.

Audience Member

True.

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Anupa Mistry

From my perspective, that’s why I think things like Kingsway is super cool or you starting a label, people who are successful using their money and their resources to create opportunities for young people here, is part of that conversation.

Boi-1da

Basically what I was trying to say. You just said it. Yeah. Even with my label situation, keeping it at home, you know and trying to make sure that, not really make sure, but let artists know you don’t have to go to the States. There’s funding over here, there’s labels over here, there’s money over here, there’s opportunities over here, you don’t have to go across the border.

Anupa Mistry

There’s lots of shows to play here now, too.

Boi-1da

Exactly. A whole lot of shows, and you know, just believing in where you’re from and building it up. That’s my thing. I just want to be one of the people that help build the infrastructure of the Canadian music scene.

Audience Member

Thanks. I was just wondering, because you mentioned that a lot of people send you music, and I guess you get connected through other people that you know to younger artists, and I was wondering is there a way that you seek out people? Do you go searching for people and where does that happen?

Boi-1da

Sometimes. Sometimes I’ll just be on the Internet listening to new music on Spotify, listening on the playlist, or just somebody sends me something. A lot of the times when people send me music, I really actually do go and listen to it. Yeah, just keeping my ear open, but a lot of the time, it’s always my friends that go, “Have you heard this? Listen to this. What do you think about this?” Or my family members, or anybody really that I know that will come to me with something. But I’m always open to hear anything.

Audience Member

Okay. Thanks.

Anupa Mistry

So, you don’t delete emails from people?

Boi-1da

No, I don’t. I don’t ever. Actually when people give me music I actually do listen to it and I give people an email to send music to and I do listen to it eventually. There’s a lot, so I definitely do get to it, my off days I’ll just sit and like go through music and listen out for stuff. I’m always keeping my ear open for something interesting, something new.

Anupa Mistry

Great.

Audience Member

You said that you need to be really open, as a producer, but also for your creativity you need to have some boundaries sometimes, and just create limits. How do you set your own limits? Is it with your gear or with the people that you work with?

Boi-1da

Yeah, a lot of the time it’s people that I work with or I try not to limit myself. I know what I can do and I know what I bring to the table as well, but I try to keep an open mind with everything. Not have limits or boundaries. I’m really open to work with anybody, like me and Lana Del Rey, we make totally different kinds of music, you know, but another person would have been like, “I don’t know if I can work with her,” but I’m just like, “I’m up for the challenge.”

Even if we don’t make anything, whatever, you know, it’s whatever as long as I try, as long as we try and figure something out. I don’t believe in boundaries really. It’s just like, do whatever. You might find something interesting, you might create something interesting, you know, blend something together. If I even answered your question.

Audience Member

When you’re collaborating with other producers, I know a lot of those guys are your good friends, how do you guys navigate the business side? Because I think it’s fair to say when you guys are making tracks, there could be a potentially a lot of dough on the table.

Boi-1da

Yeah.

Audience Member

Before you were like T-Minus produced a little bit on that track.

Boi-1da

You know, it depends, man. It’s really just a thing of coming together as being the creators on it. If I add a cow bell to a record I’m not going to ask for 25 percent, you know what I’m saying?

Audience Member

Right.

Boi-1da

Or, if you feel like things are equal, usually, or most of the time, it’s equal amount of work, everything is split or we let the lawyers handle that, but usually it’s just split everything equally depending on what was done, with discretion. There’s different ways to handle everything, but usually most of the time it’s just like, just split everything even.

That just makes everything easier for everybody. It’s like nobody’s fighting, because I’ve seen songs go on for years and years and months that people can’t agree on splits for songs or whatnot. Why not just everybody just split it up, and let’s go about our day. It’s going to be a great song and make a lot of money anyways.

Anupa Mistry

Anything else? Okay, let’s break. That was a lot of sitting. Thank you again for taking the time. [applause]