Buraka Som Sistema
Hailing from Lisbon, Buraka Som Sistema took hip-hop, techno, zouk from the Caribbean and kuduro from Angola to fashion an irresistible dance music sound that quickly wooed anyone who heard it. Beginning in the early 2000s, Branko, DJ Riot, Conductor and Kalaf Angelo collaborated with local Portuguese and Angolan artists before arriving at their kuduro distillation right as the global bass idea was taking hold across music blogs, dancefloors and festival stages. They soon attracted international and major label attention and collaborations with the likes of M.I.A.
In this lecture at the 2008 Red Bull Music Academy in Barcelona, core members João “Branko” Barbosa (a former Academy alumni) and Andro “Conductor” Carvalho talk about global street music, the colonial and cultural links between Portugal and Africa and recording in Luanda.
Hosted by Emma Warren They are repping Lisbon and Luanda and are the main reason most of us have heard of kuduro. They are named after a local soundsystem that managed to mistranslate the term soundsystem. And they are, of course, Buraka Som Sistema. (Applause) Now, we have got a sense of how you are seen in Europe and America. You have done and big shows, you’ve done hipster records, and you have made, shall we say, some mad-decent links. But how are you seen in Angola? Because after all, it is Angolan street music that kind of propelled you to where you are now? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho The music market in Angola is a little bit different from the European market. When you get bootlegged it means that you are banging and doing the right thing, and we were very bootlegged there. We’re cool, people are accepting our music João “Branko” Barbosa And they always got the name wrong. Emma Warren Really? And they mistranslated you too? So, how are you known in Angola then? João “Branko” Barbosa It is the names of the songs, everything, everything is wrong. The music, I think what they do as they go to YouTube links and find the video and then they take a recording. Everything sounds like (makes white noise sound), the whole CD. It is not just us. Our tunes actually sound just a little bit better than the other ones, so that is cool. Emma Warren I realized I was remiss when I introduced you because I didn’t actually explain who is on the couch, so for the benefit of everybody here, can you explain who we have with us? João “Branko” Barbosa My name is João Barbosa and I make music with Buraka. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho My name Conductor and I make music for Buraka also. We are producers. I am an MC and he is also a DJ. Emma Warren Cool. So, we have the core Buraka crew here. We are going to be talking a bit more about some of the time you spent in Angola, but first off, I think we should talk about your new record. You’ve got an album you are dropping next week? João “Branko” Barbosa It is going to come out next Monday, next week in Portugal, and throughout Europe in November. Emma Warren So, this is Black Diamond, and it was recorded in Angola, in Portugal, and in London. What kind of places did you record when you were making it? João “Branko” Barbosa Basically, the places didn’t really matter, we just had a microphone and laptops all the way through. We don’t use anything else besides the laptops and little shitty 100-year old keyboards, MIDI keyboards. So, yes, it is really easy to work and do whatever you want to do wherever you want to do. Emma Warren So why is that a good way for you to work, that kind of lo-fi, field recording, laptop and crappy microphone? João “Branko” Barbosa It is not lo-fi, the microphone is not crappy [laughter]. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho The soundboard is crappy. We have a crappy soundboard and a nice microphone so it sounds always medium anywhere that we record. Emma Warren When we were chatting earlier you were saying it is recorded in cars, in vans, on planes… João “Branko” Barbosa I think that the term recording doesn’t really apply that much to this record. The only thing we recorded is vocals. I think all the recording happened in someone’s house in Luanda or in London or in Lisbon. The beats and everything, it was very easy to work together when we were touring and sometimes in the studio. We have a little basement studio that we work in Lisbon, and everything is pretty much software. We try not to complicate things too much. We bought Cubase last week. We finished the album and we said like, “Everything is OK, let’s go and buy Cubase.” [Laughter] Emma Warren “Let’s give something back.” It would be nice to get an idea about some of the bedrooms and houses and homes you have been in to record vocals for the record. Can you give us an example of one of the places where you captured someone’s voice? João “Branko” Barbosa We will probably be seeing the “Sound of Kuduro” video in a while. That has a couple of places that we worked in Luanda, just bedrooms, and then all the rest of the stuff was done in bedrooms. I remember we were working with DJ Znobia, one of the big names in Angola, the best producer. We were just there because he works out of his bedroom with some Behringer speakers and his computer, and there were five of us, and the only place to sit was his bed. All of us had to sit on his bed, him included, and just listen to the songs really, really loud. He is here, the speakers are here... Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Like air conditioning… João “Branko” Barbosa It was like a fan system. There is an image of that in the video that we can play. Emma Warren Most definitely… I think it would be really good to hear some more about the particular trips that you took to Angola, but maybe first we should have a listen to something from the album? João “Branko” Barbosa Something from the album? OK. We are going to start from the future and then going to the past? OK, cool. This is the song that opens the album. (music: Buraka Som Sistema feat. DJ Znobia – “Luanda Lisboa” / applause) João “Branko” Barbosa OK. Shall I play some more? Yes? Emma Warren Well, first of all we would like to know what that was and why that is a good opening for this record? João “Branko” Barbosa Because it is dramatic, opening up with some drama – emotional drama, it’s emo dance music. Emma Warren And you are quickly going to give us another snippet of something else on the album – what is that? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho That is a song called “General,” it is a mix from the Angolan bass rhythm, the traditional samba and we mix it with the kuduro so you hear a bit of the two worlds. Yeah, that’s it. Emma Warren I definitely like this, quick starts and quick finishes. Is this you going one step further into localness, like local flavors? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Probably not. Kuduro is still not very well-known in the Angola music scene, it’s still ghetto music, probably. So, we don’t know if we are the appropriate guys to take something into the future. Emma Warren I suppose what I’m asking is that you mentioned that this kind of had that kuduro sound and then the local bass rhythm kind of thing. Can you tell us a bit about that then? What is it? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Samba started to be made in the ’70s… they started to copy music from Zaire, and they started adding to it some Angolan rhythms. I don’t know anything from Europe that sounds like that. Like soukous, you know Franco [Luambo Makiadi]… slower music, people danced very close, like tango moves. Emma Warren So, where does this sound fit into Angolan culture… is it a folky thing? João “Branko” Barbosa Yes, it’s kind of a folk thing, but they dance to it every day. Emma Warren So kuduro, it is related to movements? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Kuduro is more of a street soundtrack João “Branko” Barbosa You can listen to it in taxis, and every time that someone has a party in his house, there is always time to play some kuduro tunes and get the kids dancing, the family’s kids getting into a competition dancing against each other. We had that one Sunday afternoon, it was really funny. Emma Warren So, what happened? João “Branko” Barbosa I had the same feeling when I was growing up with breakdance. I couldn’t dance, obviously, but I used to think that I did and all of my friends thought the same so we just had some strange freaky battles of not so funky hip hop and breakdance moves. That is kind of what happens. People just do stuff, and they think that they are doing it really well, and little kids come, it is really funny. Emma Warren When did you go to Angola and what happened? João “Branko” Barbosa The idea was, we chose a lot of beats from our laptops and all the stuff that we had, and before we started getting really deep into doing the album, we thought about going there for a couple of weeks. And, obviously, we stayed in his parents’ house and were very much integrated with the whole city and everything. The idea was to record MCs and just try and get some footage, have fun and see what was going on down there. Emma Warren So, what was going on? João “Branko” Barbosa We can’t talk about that. Emma Warren What else did you do when you were there? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho We went to some producers’ places and we found out why some of the music is so bad-quality, and why things look so rough. It is really raw, everything is very raw. Emma Warren You are saying when you went you found out why everything is so raw. Why? João “Branko” Barbosa They start off with FruityLoops, not even FL Studio, the original FruityLoops. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Fruity Loops 3 was the weapon of choice of most producers, and they record vocals into FruityLoops 3. I don’t know how they do it, but they do it. So, the sound is amazing. Sterling sound. João “Branko” Barbosa And then they just use those L-1 compressors and they just destroy their mixes. We can show you some examples, if you want to listen to them? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho This was a hit. This is a major hit and it is so distorted it is impossible for us to play in a DJ set. It is a nice track, it was also a hit, but how can we play this? Emma Warren You used to re-edit mp3s, didn’t you, to play them in a club? João “Branko” Barbosa What we used to do with the stuff and we still do, is we add some sort of beginning to the song to be able to make it mixable. The song is called, if I translate it, “The Bass,” but the kick drum is so strong it ends up not having any bass at all. So, with this kind of stuff we have to add some bass ourselves, just chop up a couple of loops and just add all sorts of things on top of it. Emma Warren When we were chatting before, you were talking about one of the DJs you worked with in Angola, who only got the internet a couple of months ago. How hard is the transmission of the music, if people can’t email tunes to each other? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho CDs. When someone has a new track and he thinks it is a hot track, he may go straight to the guy who makes all the copies, “Here is my new track, you know, my name is…” I don’t know… and there you go, a new CD. Emma Warren And what exactly is the transmission route then from Luanda to Lisbon for the music? Who is bringing it over? João “Branko” Barbosa There is always a couple of them on the internet and that is where we get music from. He needs to live practically on MSN messenger to get all the new songs and to be updated. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho More than that, the internet in Angola is improving. There is only one megabyte speed and it is very slow to receive some tracks, but it exists and people are trying very hard to send the new music. Emma Warren Is there any sense that kuduro is being influenced by what people like yourselves are doing with it? Obviously, the feedback currently has gone, you saw kuduro, you felt it, you took it into your thing, and then send it out to the world. Is kuduro responding to the world’s awareness of it? João “Branko” Barbosa Not really. We felt really good about the fact that people understood what we were doing and saw that we were trying to go into a different direction, we are not trying to be dishonest and to rip them off. Basically, because we do all the music that we put out, we don’t buy loops or do that kind of stuff, and everyone understood that it was a different kind of sound and approach to the music itself. Actually, some of them, a couple of producers over there, started to ask us a lot of questions about how we were producing, what we were using, so we ended up sending a keyboard. I left a keyboard there, a microphone, because basically, it is easy to get another one. Emma Warren I suppose, maybe it is too soon, I suppose, that feedback… João “Branko” Barbosa It hasn’t come into the music yet, but it might filter it. It is definitely too soon… Emma Warren And are there any other Portuguese or Angolan sounds, regional sounds or local sounds that you are planning to bring into what you are doing, may be that you brought into Black Diamond? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Not on Black Diamond, we only use the samba as being a big music from Angola. But nowadays we do not have a lots of music genres we can apply to kuduro because, besides it being too fast, the way they dance and feel music, it is not easy to mix. It is easy when you try and put it next to some electronic music from Europe, but it is not easy to mix to other Angolan sounds. I don’t know if it is possible to show you something and have some idea, probably some video, I’ll try to download it here from YouTube. Emma Warren While you’re doing that, you are talking about going to Angola, leaving something there. Another thing that you’ve left there is the work that you did with the DJs. Another thing that you left there is the legacy of the people that appear on the album. Who is on the record and where did you find them? João “Branko” Barbosa It is all people that we wanted to work with before. We were constantly on the telephone, trying to get these people. Basically, we tried to work with people that we thought we would be able to exchange with. Znobia is the guy who made kuduro evolve to the point it is at now and was someone who had to be on the album. Kuduro is at the moment a lot about MCing, a lot of kids MCing on top of the beats, and there is one MC who just started off not that long ago. He is probably the only guy who can say something very, very interesting on top of the beats because it is difficult when you’re rapping very fast. It is kind of impossible to say all the words perfectly, especially in Portuguese. This guy is called Bruno M. Emma Warren When you say he says something interesting or exciting, what do you mean? João “Branko” Barbosa It is not that he is the only guy doing interesting stuff, but he managed to get the balance between saying something interesting that people like me can understand and rhyming really fast because it’s difficult. You end up losing words, you end up having to adjust sentences and this makes the lyrical side of things a little poorer than it could actually be. Emma Warren I was just wondering whether or not he was one of the things, because obviously, if you’re calling the album Black Diamond, it suggests that there is some kind of political, oil, diamonds thing going on? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Yes, probably he is one of the guys that makes the name of the album have some kind of sense. Emma Warren So yes, let’s listen to it, but please tell us before what kind of things is he talking about on it? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho He is talking about his daily life. He is telling us he is the best and that he has all the girls, and that he does not have a car, that he is the guy that everyone knows in his neighborhood João “Branko” Barbosa He puts it out in a very metaphorical way, like a lot of the good hip-hop stuff. Emma Warren Can you remember a couple of particular things he says after we listen to it and then translate? (music: Buraka Som Sistema – “Tiroza”) Emma Warren So, yes, what’s he saying? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho He is saying that he is big right now because he still lives in the same old street where he lived all his life. But now he is big because he is singing with us, and he is saying that he likes rap, he loves rap, but the Angolan rap is not big right now, so he is doing kuduro to represent what Angola is about. Emma Warren So, lots of repping going on. So, what are you going to show us up here? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho I wanted to show some kids dancing but the YouTube got stuck here. Emma Warren We’ll come back to it, we have plenty of time to talk about dancing. It would be good to hear about a few of the other guests that you have on the record… who else would be good to talk about? João “Branko” Barbosa We are working with an MC now, Pongolove, and she actually lives around Lisbon. We just started doing some shows with her a couple months ago and she is really talented. She writes and records really well in the studio, and it is more than just having stage energy. She responds really well in the studio. I think the main thing on this kind of stuff, when the beat’s so fast, is when you can actually do a hook that you can play around and stick in someone’s head and try and make it stay there. Everyone sings it and remembers it, and making it interesting at the same time… it’s not just a matter of selling records, it is improving someone’s moment somehow. Emma Warren So, you’re talking making things catchy? João “Branko” Barbosa Yes, like a chorus tends to go on, playing around with words and sometimes not even using real words… just playing around with sounds and using the vocal as a percussion instrument, and trying to make it as strong as possible. Emma Warren Do you have any other advice to producers who are using straight-up local music; street sounds basically? João “Branko” Barbosa No. Emma Warren I suppose, what I am trying to get to is, you’re using a particular street sound from a particular place in the world, it is very location-specific – it is from a particular place. What are the things that you have learned? What should you do, what shouldn’t you do? Are there things that you need to be aware of when you are dealing with that kind of music on a general level? João “Branko” Barbosa Basically, I think what happens generally, and I think everyone here is a producer or a vocalist or a songwriter, or something like that, and I think what is important is if you’re getting something from somewhere, from a specific place, it doesn’t even matter if it’s a place you grew up in or someplace that you really have an interest in – I think it is really important to just try not to fade yourself so far out of the track completely. You need to be present on the track as well, you cannot just use something else and not incorporate yourself on the song. Emma Warren So, you don’t need to pretend to be Angolan to make it? João “Branko” Barbosa Exactly, that is the idea behind this whole thing. Emma Warren And what about the other side of it, the respect of the artists that are making this music? I guess, what I am trying to talk about really is that it’s is so easy to take from street culture… you were saying before about your way of operating and making sure you are giving writing credits to people. What about that side of it – the issues around respect and credits and money? João “Branko” Barbosa There is definitely a lot of people who tend to just grab something and try and show it off to the world and get credit from it, because obviously, no one is ever going to hear about these kuduro artists right here. The thing is when we work with them, we just want to give everyone their writing credits. But they’re probably not going to get them anyway, because they are not registered into any kind of writing society. We’re just doing it anyway. We tend to invite people to work with us instead of just buying people out, paying for something and bringing it home. Emma Warren One of the criticisms that can be leveled at this kind of sound – and global is such a useless way of describing it – is that it’s kind of a magpie thing. It is people who come and take the glittering brilliance of the street music around the world, and packaging it as their own. How do you feel about that? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho To us, it is natural, that is how we grew up, we listened to all this different kind of music. We don’t see it like something bad. We just don’t take any profits on anything that we didn’t build from zero. We try to make it in the most professional way and try to treat everyone like they were the most professional guys ever. And they know that someone that likes the music and is making the music because they love it. As soon as you have got the credit from the people who make the original music, you are just doing it. They don’t even call what we do kuduro they call it “batida,” which means beats. We make beats that sound like kuduro, but they’re not actually it, so we’re clean… João “Branko” Barbosa We are not going to jail for that. Emma Warren How was kuduro seen in Portugal before you guys came along? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho When kuduro started showing up in Angola and it was like very funny guys dressed up like girls, making crazy moves. And what happened was people started seeing kuduro as something bad João “Branko” Barbosa Not serious. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho There is a lot of debate about the kuduro not being a real Angolan music. In Portugal, of course, there are a lot of immigrants and a lot of Angolan and Cape Verdean people living there, and there is a kuduro scene. Not in clubs, but people listen to it in schools. The first guys to show what kuduro was were those kind of guys, dressing like girls, dancing like girls, swinging their asses. João “Branko” Barbosa One of them had a broom and his dance was like dancing around with a broom. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho [Laughs] There is a big association with what those guys used to make because some of the media they give a lot of the attention to them. Funny, they were stupid, and everyone assumed they were like… Emma Warren What I wanted to know, though, is with the dancing like that anyway? Where did this girl thing come from originally? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho I don’t know. That is the way that kuduro started. There was a major guy in kuduro, he made a major revolution about the way people should dress and be and act and dance. The name of the guy is Sebem and he was the guy who was introducing the moves to them, and everyone started doing it [laughs]. João “Branko” Barbosa He is very funny. He has this little dog, and he has a Volkswagen Beetle, one of the new ones, a red one, and he walks around with his girlfriend and drives around town listening to music really loud. It is probably the only red car in Angola. Emma Warren Can I just clarify something? You were talking about the early kuduro dancing being very feminine and that kind of butterfly dancing. Was there a gay element to it or was it different from that? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Sebem was probably like the most show-off guy I knew in my entire life, and that is the way he is, and that is the way he presents kuduro to the people. And then I remember, I went to a show in Lisbon and this guy, he showed up from nowhere, and he was wearing a crazy T-shirt, like a mirror, and he was dancing like hell and had an amazing dancer. Someone stepped up to the stage and wanted to make a challenge with a dancer and the two of them kissed this guy on his mouth. It is not something gay, it just happened and those guys step out the scene and go back to their girlfriends but it was like, “Shit, they started kissing the guy.” It is Sebem’s style, he likes to show off. Emma Warren It’s like a different expression of masculinity than maybe we would understand in western Europe. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Yeah, probably João “Branko” Barbosa There is also a question that there is this one guy doing this thing what we were describing, obviously, and a lot of people that are working around him. But people tend to notice the craziest guy. People tend to focus on one icon and one person, and that thing maybe becomes too much generic, and people try and apply it to the whole genre instead of just thinking this guy is weird and there are really normal guys around him. Emma Warren So, that is the YouTube effect, we see the crazy guys on YouTube, but we don’t see the less crazy people around them because it is less interesting to watch. Is this the time then to get some YouTube moments out? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho OK, this guy is Os Lambas… (video: Os Lambas) Emma Warren I don’t want to get too deep about it because sometimes things just are, but say, if capoeira developed through martial arts with slavery roots and footwork in the inner cities, Chicago, has a gang kind of thing, where you are writing out words with your feet, what does kuduro express? João “Branko” Barbosa It is not anything new, it is basically just like the music. From the stories that we were told from people that were there since the beginning, it started off as people trying to do house and techno. They didn’t sit down one day and say, “Let’s invent kuduro.” They sat down and said, “Let’s try and do American and European dance music.” It is like the Portuguese, they were trying to discover India and they went to America, but thought they had discovered India, and started calling everyone Indian and a few weeks later discovered that they didn’t. It is kind of the same thing and this is exactly the same thing. They incorporate elements from what they see and from what they think will fit into this tempo and BPM, and obviously, a lot of breakdancing and all those crazy moves. I think the element that is less known throughout the rest of the world is doing strange faces and strange movements, that is a really big element. You saw that in the video? Emma Warren What is Angolan about that? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho They mix a little bit of some old Angolan dances, some traditional music, and they mix it with the breakdancing and probably some Jamaican moves like the [Crazy Frog] or something. They mix it all up and they make their own street language, and call it kuduro. All the dancers, as soon as nice tracks drop out, they make a dance for it, same as the reggae scene, the dancehall scene. Emma Warren But in the ’70s with the Angolan funk, stuff, were there dances that went with that? João “Branko” Barbosa I don’t know, I think there was more traditional dancing, just a guy grabbing a girl, that is what everyone does in the world. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho There are a lot of tribes in Angola, so there are a lot of things that I haven’t seen and I actually don’t know. There is a lot of kuduro that has names that I don’t [understand]. Emma Warren And there are different types of kuduro as well, you said before there is religious and gangster and XXX-rated kuduro… how does that work? João “Branko” Barbosa It is the same as any other genre, basically. People tend to go into one direction or another, and they end up in different results. Emma Warren I suppose it is the same spectrum as hip-hop artists thanking God in their liner notes, and then at the other end you have your strip-joint guys. We are going to play another thing off the album, which perhaps is the most directly related... let me rephrase. How about the video first? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho We don’t have the video, we haven’t brought the video. We are the best… We brought a lot of things from YouTube… (video: Buraka Som Sistema – “Sound of Kuduro” / applause) Emma Warren So, can either of you dance like that? João “Branko” Barbosa [Snorts] Emma Warren [Laughs] What about those crazy drops, do you think it hurts? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Of course! Those guys are sweaty as hell, and they’re very tired. João “Branko” Barbosa The main dance scene was filmed over a couple of hours in this backyard of a house, and, basically, we needed to keep the song looping because they couldn’t stop dancing. They were in some kind of trance-like moment, and if the song stopped, they would not stop, so it is just looped up on some shitty boombox. Emma Warren As people who have had international success from a non-English-speaking country – and a lot of people from the Academy will find this useful because they are in the same place – what kind of things helped, do you think? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho We don’t try too hard. We are not trying to force anything to happen, we are not trying to look like Lil’ Jon or Jay Z, we are always being as straight as possible in any situation. We are trying to give something that people feel is real and is us, we are not performing with a flag or something. You just need to be honest about what you are doing and be yourself João “Branko” Barbosa There is the sense of timing for the whole thing, for the moment that you choose to start doing something. The way I felt when we started off it was actually a big void that this kind of experimentation with music, that had roots in countries in Africa, that no one has heard of except in National Geographic documentaries with lions and things like that. The fact is, there are huge cities in Africa with as much urban music as you get in cities in Europe and around the world, so I felt that issue. One of the reasons why this whole thing started is that we wanted to bring that up and to recognize that that kind of thing is happening and to do a video, which is “Sound of Kuduro” was basically recorded with a Handicams and all of that. I don’t know how many people here have seen one image of Angola besides that video – perhaps not that many, so that was definitely something that we felt we could try and do something and get information out and get the image of something outside of Survival Channel documentaries? Emma Warren Do you think that is a kind of a micro example of the big difference, generally, between the western world’s perceptions of Africa and the reality? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Yes, of course. They have a lot of electronic music in Africa and no one talks about it, there is someone here from South Africa? They have kwaito, and there are a lot of genres in in Namibia. Nowadays they have a genre called “soukous,” which is just like electronic music and has grown so much. There is not just the old guy with the big hat near the old tree playing the guitar, they have a big scene in clubs. Emma Warren You just gave the example that there is urban music in Luanda. What are the other urban African music scenes that interested parties should be checking out? João “Branko” Barbosa I don’t know, we know about ours, you need to figure out your own. You need to go there and figure out your own. Emma Warren You are going to be involved in the Africa Express project with Damon Albarn from the Britpop band Blur, what is happening with that? João “Branko” Barbosa I know it is going to be a big show with a lot of artists collaborating with each other on stage. We were really afraid to participate in the beginning because they were talking about doing a jam session, and the whole concept is of jam sessions is kind of funky and strange. Now we know there is a day of preparation, and we can build something and do something – I think it will be a big kind of a three- or four-hour show, a big non-stop show, with European and international artists coming in and doing stuff and coming back whenever they want. Emma Warren To return, for a second, to this point about non-English-speaking countries, there is so much music coming out from everywhere, does it still make it more difficult if you live in a country where English is not the first language? João “Branko” Barbosa We are in a good moment to show other kinds of music from strange places in the world and obviously the evolution of music, and people like M.I.A. and Diplo, and what he did with baile funk, for example, gave awareness to everyone that music is not only coming from New York, or London, or Chicago. Even things like reggaeton, and stuff like that makes you aware of music and aware of music you can have from the Caribbean besides reggae and dancehall. Emma Warren It really does seem that the idea that music must have an epicenter in New York, or London, or Chicago, is over… Andro “Conductor” Carvalho Lots of guys of our age, or even younger than us, in Africa or some places in South America, they grew up listening to whatever the radio plays, but at the same time they grew up listening to the music their dads or the old guy around the corner is making. So, it is normal for them to try and make the next step, and some people [found it] three years ago, but reggaeton has been going around the South American scene for more than 10 years probably, 10 or 13 years. Kuduro has been there for 10 or 13 years, and everyone is just looking to London or the US, and there are a lot of artists who know that they are tired and bored of always playing the same BPM and making the same mixes and being predictable. Everybody is buying Serato, making the same sound with Serato, so it is normal that people want to grow and make something new. Of course, M.I.A. and some of the artists, some of the people are still not aware of what is happening. They should leave the country, be there and see what is happening at night, and see the scene. Emma Warren Something that really surprised me when I came to Lisbon in the springtime is that there doesn’t seem to be anyone else who is using the local music, or music that is related to you and your roots in their music. All the young hip-hop MCs I met wanted to make Dilla beats or were into American hip-hop. Waajeed was there as well, and we were talking to loads of people and saying, “You have got all the stuff – why isn’t it informing the music you make?” Is that accurate? Did we just not meet the guys who are following on from what you are doing? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho This is the point that I was talking about. What we’re doing is not in the stream of the Portuguese music. We are not using folklore from Portugal. People like to feel that they are on top of things, and doing the latest thing that everyone is listening to, so there is a lot of producers that feel like they’re J Dilla nowadays. It is not only in Portugal. In Angola there is a lot of producers feeling that they are Kanye and they are the next R. Kelly, so they are just feeling themselves with something, but they have no identity… It is not just sampling the old music and putting a beat on top – you have the feeling of the whole vibe around the music that you make, and that is missing in a lot of places, not just in Portugal. It is worldwide in big cities we are talking about now. Emma Warren One thing that struck me when I was listening to the El Guincho album is that all the international music that has suddenly become acceptable in a mainstream way, it’s all had local flavor, but it’s all wrapped around big beats and basslines and almost like an American/UK soundsystem heritage. Do you think records like that show you can come with a completely local flavor without having to have completely obvious UK and American bass and beats? Andro “Conductor” Carvalho All the great movements that we see right now started with a small movement. Hip-hop nowadays has Jay-Z, the multimillionaire guy, but I heard about the time when hip-hop was just local, was just a street guy singing with his friend, and everything has to start from a certain point but someone has to do something. It is like the grime and dubstep movement in the UK, it started small and now it is what it is. There is a lot of places that have nice music, and they don’t need to just be copying things that they are listening to. It could be less obvious. João “Branko” Barbosa The other side of it is, if you look at pop music and see huge artists like Nelly Furtado or stuff like that, I think all these small genres and small trends, their job is to influence those people and the music that they are making, and there are definitely some results in that. You could definitely listen to “Wind It Up” from Gwen Stefani and there is a baile funk beat throughout the whole song. Pharrell did it. It is not obvious, but if you listen to the way the beat is programmed, the elements that it has, it is baile funk. I think that is the kind of purpose of a lot of the small genres and small stuff that is coming out. People can use those elements and use them wherever they want to, but if you want to go and play in a club and you have a soundsystem, you have to make it sound big and that is why everyone goes to UK sounds and US sounds. I don’t think it is a time yet where those local scenes can come up on their own without being considered or tagged “world music.” Emma Warren I guess we’ll see because it seems that the beginnings of that are here, and over the next couple of years we will see how that pans out. I wanted to ask you specifically about your relationship with the Academy because you came to São Paulo as a participant in 2002. What was that experience like for you? João “Branko” Barbosa It was great. It was one of the best 15 days of my life. It is like a strange moment when you start feeling that you are doing something right because someone chose you to be here, to participate in the Academy, you feel, “Yes, I am definitely doing something right.” Emma Warren I was there doing the same thing I’m doing now, and it totally blew my mind, to be honest with you, inside out, upside down, all different directions. One of the most amazing things was Madlib being there and just hanging out and seeing what those guys were doing, as well as all the drummers. There was James Gadson, Mamao, all the Brazilian guys, it was really inspirational. Is there anything specific that sticks in your mind about it? João “Branko” Barbosa There were certainly some good moments and I remember the Brazilintime show, which was huge. It wasn’t a building as big as this one, it was a much smaller building like a two-floor house. I remember it also didn’t have the same studio installations as there are now, so it revolved more around DJ studios, small rooms with turntables and CD mixers and all that stuff, so what happened was people went in those rooms for sessions. I remember seeing DJ Nuts with a turntable and doing something at the same time as this guy playing a Brazilian instrument just having fun, five minutes, the two of them and it was something wonderful to watch, all these little things happening. Emma Warren Obviously, passing through the Academy is one moment in the broader journey that took you from being guys doing whatever to being a fully formed musical outfit. But the Academy time also lead in a couple of specific ways to your first 7” and to your soundsystem. Can you tell us a bit about both of those? João “Branko” Barbosa We did the first 7” and it was paid for by the good folks at Red Bull. Obviously, I created some kind of relationship with them by becoming a participant and they were very supportive. Before that, I had done another project after the Academy and basically it was this beautiful 7” with a really nice sleeve that everyone went nuts about. Emma Warren What about the soundsystem? João “Branko” Barbosa The whole Buraka thing started off as a kind of a club night/DJ thing. We did it four times, and the club had to shut down and move to a smaller place. After we started the night there, it got to a point where we had to decide what we wanted to do with this thing that we had created over the last four months. So, we just started a band project and the first time we played a big show was in a party that happens every year. One of the biggest street parties in Europe – everyone goes out at night in Lisbon. There’s almost one million people in a couple of areas of the city. So, Red Bull put a huge soundsystem in one of the best places with a view to the river and there was all sorts of stuff happening on stage, and we were one of [those things]. Emma Warren You have developed your live show in a very energetic direction and I know you have some footage of you with some of the things that happened at a Buraka event João “Branko” Barbosa I remember shows when I was growing up and going to festivals, and one image that stuck in my mind is the first time I saw the Prodigy. I couldn’t keep my mouth shut, I just looked at it for 45 minutes, and that is the kind of impact that we try and have in our shows. Just forget about language, forget about whatever. Here is the music as hard as you can possibly imagine, and try and make it strong and emotional. This is something we do in our shows. Emma Warren So, we are going to start putting it out to the floor fairly soon, so start thinking about what you want to ask. But before we do that, let’s return to where we started, which is your new album. Can we listen to something else, a sneak preview of the record? João “Branko” Barbosa This is one song that we did with Pongolove, the MC that we were talking about. She is actually one of the girls dancing in the live video. (music: Buraka Som Sistema – “Kalemba (Wegue Wegue)”) Emma Warren So what is she talking about? João “Branko” Barbosa “Wegue” is the kind of wordplay that I was talking about. It is not really anything, it is just words and sounds and just treat it as percussion completely. Emma Warren Vocals as a sound. She is not actually saying words? João “Branko” Barbosa The rest of the time she’s saying words. Emma Warren I thought I heard, “Pongo loves it.” João “Branko” Barbosa Just that bit. Andro “Conductor” Carvalho She is actually saying she is from Angola and she is representing what’s really from Angola, flowers, rivers, queens. She is very national, she is like a black diamond. She is a black diamond, actually. She’s very young and very good. João “Branko” Barbosa She’s 16. Emma Warren I think now we need to give it up for Buraka Som Sistema. Thank you very much. [Applause]
(music: Buraka Som Sistema – “General)
Speaker: João “Branko” Barbosa
(music: unknown)
Speaker: Andro “Conductor” Carvalho
(music: unknown)
Speaker: Andro “Conductor” Carvalho
[Plays video]
You see everyone starts to jump at the same time. So basically, we just tell everyone to sit down and, I don’t know how you’re supposed to say that? We tell everyone to crouch. It doesn’t sound like that in Portuguese. [Exagerrated accent] “Crouch.” “Everyone crouch.” [Laughs] And then we just tell them all to jump at the same time when the song starts. There is the cheesiest snare intro. The sound is awful. The security guy is going nuts. This is our live set-up (applause).