Cerrone

Patrick Thévenin

Good evening to all. As you know, the Red Bull Music Academy is taking place in Paris this year, at la Gaité Lyrique. There will be many organized events, among which is a lecture with Marc Cerrone, who is perhaps the father of French disco, shall we can say. Do you accept this, or not?

Cerrone

Why French?

Patrick Thévenin

It starts again.

Cerrone

Like I told you: I have never made a record in France. I have always done it in England or in the United States, so I have not really… I am French by birth, but I’m not really a French musician or French singer. So, without any pretensions, no – I’m not a French disco composer.

Patrick Thévenin

Did you always think that you were composing music that was more international?

Cerrone

I have never released a record only in France. My records were always released first in the United States, or in England, but usually in the United States, and then they reached France a few months later.

Patrick Thévenin

A rebound.

Cerrone

Just to make everything clear – without any pejorative sense, or whatever.

Patrick Thévenin

Can you tell us where you come from, and how you got into music? Into drums? Just to remind people...

Cerrone

This will probably annoy them. It will be long.

Patrick Thévenin

No. It’s really interesting, actually.

Cerrone

I started playing drums by accident when I was 12 years old. I discovered that since I was unruly, and not really a good student, I would drum on the tables non-stop and get thrown out of class. In the beginning, it was under the office furniture, when I had a teacher that I didn’t like. Otherwise, it would be in the corridors. At one point, I nearly got expelled from school. At the time, my mother told me, “Listen, what will we do? You will get yourself expelled from school. If you prove yourself and manage to focus, and play music during the time that you can, at the end of the term I will buy you drums.” What an amusing idea. I didn’t even think of that.

In short, what happened was that she gave me a drum kit and I started to learn how to play it. I found a friend who was the most loyal to me, whom I spent most of my time with. After a year-and-a-half, or two years I started to work in groups more often. At the age of 16, my father wanted me to continue my studies. It was absolutely impossible, so I ran away from home and continued playing music while they were still looking for me, for a year-and-a-half or two years. Whenever I heard the police in the streets, I wondered if they were looking for me. I would talk to my mother so that she knew that I wasn’t doing anything stupid, but it was music…

Patrick Thévenin

And where you living at the time?

Cerrone

Excuse me?

Patrick Thévenin

So where were you living at that time?

Cerrone

I made sure to find girlfriends that had a studio, who were students, so that I could crash there. I would take gigs on Saturdays and Sundays – balls, which I enjoyed the most – to be able to eat. And then, in the summer of ’72 – this goes way back, during the summer of ’72 – I had decided with a friend to go and panhandle on the port of St Tropez. I made a board with wheels with the drums on it, and I would play the drums solo from 7pm to 9pm: when the people would have their aperitif – even today, there are people who do that. Then I would take my bowler hat off and pass it to the people on the terrace.

Eddie Barclay, who was a famous man at the time – who invented the long-player single that know today – had put a note in the hat. I saw that he had been there many times so I went to meet him after I was done. I was quite moved, and didn’t say much, and then he invited me to lunch the next day. I went to his villa, with a lot of stars as guests. I was already wondering, “What will happen?”

I did not think that what would happen after that would be the drums. I thought that by 20 or 21 years old I would stop playing them. In the end, we signed my first contract really, really fast. He told me that I could not just play drums for a record – you need a group of musicians – and I told him that I had some friends with whom I had made a band. It was called Kongas – we were quite popular until ’75 – and he asked me if I could get the group from Paris to St Tropez – which I did.

We played at a disco called Le Papagayo, which was a well-known disco at the time. We had a trial, then the trial turned into playing there for the whole month, and we signed a contract. At the end of August, we started working in studios. In November, we released our first single and I have never stopped since then. There, I have told you everything, I can say “Goodnight.”

Patrick Thévenin

And then what happened?

Cerrone

I learned stagecraft with Kongas. I had learned to place myself, to have a style of my own. Kongas was an Afro-rock group.

Patrick Thévenin

How many people were in Kongas?

Cerrone

There were six of us… There were two percussionists, drums, bass, guitar, keyboard, singer –seven. I formed this group, which was quite fantastic. We were the first group to sign a contract with an American record label called Buddha Records. This is when I got excited about going international, because we had gone on tour in the United States, we had gone to Japan, and I have learned stagecraft with this group.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. You have learned everything, the production...

Cerrone

No. The production came at end of the ’70s. I have lived my life a bit by accident, but positive accidents. When life gave me obstacles, in the end, I have found that these obstacles are steps that allow me to climb higher. In ’75 – because I am telling you about my life – I had a girlfriend and she got pregnant and so, evidently, her dad told me, “You will marry her.” And I told myself, “If I keep the kid, I will have to stop playing music. I have to be serious. I have to take responsibility.” I had a son, who will be 40 years this year, and before I left the group I said, “I will make an album. It will be the conclusion of everything that I have learned,” and that’s when I produced Love In C Minor.

I had gone to England because I was a fan of a studio called Trident, where Elton John and Genesis recorded. I had succeeded in hiring an engineer for a few weeks – and everything that I needed, and then I produced [Love In C Minor]. I had, of course, kept the two percussionists from the Kongas, so to support them I used this foot all the time – this rhythm which became disco. I saw that this worked very well because when we stopped performing solo, and when we did pop or rock songs, it was alright.

When I did [Love In C Minor], I told myself that on top of being a drummer, I had to be a leader. I had to find a signature somewhere, so I used this rhythm all the time with a bassline to follow. I recorded a song that was 16 minutes and 30 seconds long, and I didn’t think that I would keep it at 16 minutes and 30 seconds. When we were in the studio we were all playing live. I told them that I’d record for as long as possible, and then choose the best parts and cut it up later. But when I was listening to it, I told myself that I would keep them all because I thought, really, that I would sell a dozen copies.

When you produce a record with the drums in the foreground that’s 16 minutes long, it’s true that it won’t be on the radio. At one point, at the end of the album, I became a megalomaniac. Instead of listening to all of the record labels that thought that it was not releasable, and that it made no sense, it’s really because it made no sense that I thought that it had something. What I talked about earlier, in relation to obstacles that turned into steps that allowed me to climb higher, I had the courage to go to London to a record label called Island. I had 5,000 records that I had made and wanted to sell myself. A month-and-a-half later the records arrived in Paris, and, with a few friends, we tried placing five records here, 20 records there, and gradually, by placing them in clubs and offering them to discos, the buzz started to spread after a few weeks.

At the time, there was a record shop that you would have recognized called ChampDisque. Gary Deschamps was the DJ in there. This is where we went to search for American records that would have been released in France nine months later, what we would have called an “import.” I had given [Gary] 10 records, then 20, then 50, and he told me, “Your thing is really enjoyable.” And as the guy was talking to me like I am talking to you, I had my picture on the record cover. He never connected the dots.

Then one day, he told me, “Listen, give me 300 and we will do the accounting at the end of the month.” Me, I was really happy. I had just one condition. I told him, “Put them all in the display window.” He puts them in all in the display window and after 48 hours, he calls me. I thought that he had sold them all. He said, “No, no, no, I have a stupid intern” – it’s not an intern, it’s a sales boy – “who instead of sending back 300 defective or unsold Barry White records to a New Yorker wholesaler, he has sent yours. By the time it reaches here, deliver me 50 more.” We delivered the 50, but the 300 never came back.

When he opened the box, the American wholesaler saw the record cover and was shocked. I reiterate: we are in ’76, so he wants to listen to it. He listens to it and then he says, “Wow, I want to play this in a disco.” The guy who opened the box was a DJ during weekends in the euro clubs in New York, and when he played them the public went up to the booth and said, “What is this? What is this?” So, he sold those 300 records straight from the booth. This made quite an impact in New York. Some friends came to see me and told me, “Your record is working quite well in the US.” I thought that it was a joke.

I lost two months because of that, and then it was time for Midem which was, at that time, in December. It’s the records fair in Cannes and I was telling myself, “Maybe, if there’s work, I will try and go to Midem,” all the while thinking, “I will have a kid.” I couldn’t let go. So, I went to Midem and I saw a magazine called Billboard, which is a bit like the bible of music for the whole world, and I saw that my song was listed [in it]. To cut a long story short, I went to New York with a friend and rang the doorbell of the first record label I went to (which was the biggest, Atlantic Records), and they welcomed me in. I signed the contract with Atlantic. The result: a no 1 record, three million albums sold. There…

Patrick Thévenin

There is also a story that you had told me long ago. There was cover of the title track, “Love In C Minor,” because they didn’t know who the original was by…

Cerrone

Ah, you know that story. This will probably be a bit long. Of course, when we had buzz in New York, the record labels checked the album cover and found “Printed in England” on it. They looked for my name in England, but nobody knew me. There was another label called Casablanca, where Donna Summer and Giorgio Moroder were, and they made a cover of it. What’s a cover? It’s an identical copy.

That became a top-ten record. When I went to see Atlantic, I told them, “Wait – this is a cover. The original is mine.” I had to prove myself (that was quite easy to do) and, of course, we signed immediately. Three months later, they launched my original, which killed the cover and was an enormous success.

Patrick Thévenin

All right. What was it like in the ’70s for a young musician, who’s interested in discos, and that clubbing spirit that gave birth to the DJ?

Cerrone

There was nothing. It was instinctive. At the time, discos were starting to emerge. What was the difference between the discos, and those before them? Before, they were called nightclubs. The nightclubs would play about half an hour of music for dancing, and then half an hour of slow music. But there was a new trend called discos. From the age of 20, I went to discos, not nightclubs. It was all a coincidence…

Patrick Thévenin

What were they playing in the discos?

Cerrone

Like we say, you need to have a minimum of talent to do this job, but you especially need to be at the right place at the right time, and to feel in it your gut. You also need to know how to surround yourself with talent. I believe that you need to be around talented people, because you can’t make a record by yourself. You don’t start a career by yourself. There are plenty of people that are around, and you need to choose carefully – these people can also change your style and confuse you, but others, on the other hand… When you are young, you have a tendency to believe the people who are in the job, so you have to be very, very careful. When people ask me what they need to do to be successful… well, you need to have a minimum amount of talent, especially the talent of knowing how to make it known, which I am explaining to you.

Patrick Thévenin

You also have a strong personality, since you slammed the door on Barclay because they wanted to make Kongas a pop group…

Cerrone

It’s always a principle. When you have the opportunity to be seen and to be interested in people who are more talented than you, you shouldn’t let it go. You have to be up to the challenge. You have to be assertive. You have to fight, to be up to the challenge – and then afterwards, grow. But it’s not because someone big, important and talented is interested in you that you say, “This is it, I have reached my goal.” In this job, especially today, there are many people who think that they have succeeded because they have signed with a record label or they have a promising success, and that is it. They have succeeded. On the contrary – it is like surfing. This is how it works. I always try to live up to expectations of the doors that open.

Patrick Thévenin

After [Love In C Minor], was there a pressure weighing down on you, or…?

Cerrone

There is also sadness because the TV channels in France, which I had told you in the beginning of the interview… it was not released in France. It was released [in the USA]. It was only when it was a success there that it came back to France. So, like we say, “Nobody is a prophet in his own land.” This embarrassed me. I had my family and my friends in France, and I was telling myself that it was a lucky strike, and that it would not go on. I was taking advantage of everything that was coming to me and opening to me – tours, television, money, glory – because from the moment I produced by myself, I didn’t sign an artist contract. I signed a label contract. They are not the same thing. I was taking advantage of it all because I thought that it would all stop in a few months’ time.

Never would I have thought then that I would make a second album called Paradise, which was quite as successful, and after that a third album which came out two years later, Supernature. This is where everything started. This is really where – between Grammy awards, between eight million albums – the change started. I began to think that maybe a career was starting for me, so I had to pull my weight, I had to surround myself with the right people, and work harder. In any case, I had to be up to the challenge and to whatever was happening to me.

Patrick Thévenin

There was something quite modern about this period – you created a sort of global package with your record… an image, a lifestyle, with your album covers…

Cerrone

With [Love In C Minor], everything I have done… like I explained, my path in life, between Kongas, is about this excitement and discovery. The album cover, for instance, which was supposed to be a concept that guided the musical direction. From the time that you have a concept that works – that pleases you, because it’s what you wanted – you carry on. By the third album, the principal title was supposed to be the first single, “Give Me Love.” During the sessions, I had always stayed at Trident because Trident had opened doors for me. It was my studio during the year. They sent me a synthesizer called the Odyssey. I did not even know how to switch it on. It was one of the first synthesizers. The first thing that I had played was a note – “ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta” – which was the birth of the sequencer, in fact.

“Supernature,” the song, happened while I was playing it and enjoying myself one afternoon. The concept was done. After that, I surrounded myself with the right talent. We produced “Supernature” and evidently, when it was completed (it was also nearly 20 minutes long), with the concept in three phases, I went to Atlantic with it. Since my record label was American, not French, they said, “No. We have worked for two years to build your orchestration – your musical style – between Love In C Minor and Paradise – and you’re coming to us with… what is a synthesizer?”

We were at the end of ’77 – beginning of ’78. I fought quite hard and I managed to persuade them. Because I did not have an artist contract (it was a label contract), I told them that if you do not want to release Supernature, then you don’t have a third album, or you don’t have an artist.

“How come we don’t have an artist? We signed with you for five years.”

“No, you signed with a label. The label has only signed with Cerrone for two albums.”

So, how did I do it ? I end up blackmailing them a bit, and they accepted. It was not business. I did not prepare any of that. It was spontaneous, like a kid defending himself, like when I first ran away from home because I really wanted to go to the limit.

In short, Supernature was a colossal success. Then I met a writer called Lene Lovitch, who was part of the original punk movement and a 180-degree turn from the “Love me,” sexy stuff: very playful… “Supernature” was rather cold compared to what I had done before. With her, an environmentalist, writing… few people cared about it at the time. They told me, “You are doing this on purpose. You want to commit suicide. You are on the branch that will kill yourself.” I said, “No, I am making the tree bigger. Have faith in me.” Well, it was done. Supernature was very, very important.

Patrick Thévenin

And how did you have so much confidence in yourself, when you said that?

Cerrone

Megalomania, I think. Not to confuse megalomania and mythomania, though. They are very close, but they are not the same thing. A megalomaniac delivers, and a mythomaniac dreams. When the passion is serious... it’s the fact that you don’t believe that it will last, so you don’t have anything to lose. You do not plan for a future in the spotlight. I have never liked having the spotlight on me. My delight was the stage. I learned stagecraft with Kongas, and then it was to spend time on stage on my own. I tried to go as far as possible, so that I could emerge in three or four years’ time to play live, and I couldn’t really believe it.

Patrick Thévenin

From the moment you discovered the Arp – which is a synthesizer that would shake things up quite a lot– we did not really know what you worked with. You didn’t really talk about your equipment, your synthesizers, your favorite gear. How do you produce a Cerrone track? Are there other musicians, or are you on your own?

Cerrone

During the time of Supernature, I found a guy who knew how to use synthesizer. There was IBM, at the time, for accounting – that’s what IT was for. It was this guy called Jonathan Jeczalik, who had created the group Art of Noise. He was so talented. I had written the main tune – the construction, the sound direction – but at the end, the people that you have around you bring their own talents to the track. Moreover, since I have group training, I still do a lot of stage performances. I do not have an artist’s mind, like a singer, with all these musicians who are jumping on a bandwagon. If there is a team spirit, then everybody will participate. I need others. It’s really important to me. It’s reassuring to me. It’s also quite encouraging to go find a girl like Lene Lovitch, who we do not really see very often. She played a role – very gothic and punk. She was insane. She was like Hare Krishna. She was roaming the streets barefoot.

We were at Piccadilly Circus with a friend called Alain Visniac, who I worked with on Supernature with, and we see this chick with a stuffed pink bird on her head. She was a redhead, and she was wearing a green dress, and we were nearly laughing. “What was this?” When we were laughing, she started playing the tambourine. She comes to us and says, “Why are you laughing?” We were teasing her a little bit, “What are you doing here? You are dressed like a Christmas tree.” “And you? What do you do?” “We are musicians.” “Oh yes?”

And suddenly, I am inviting her to come join us at night at the studio. She accepts. She shows up, and we spend some time together, this and that… Supernature has a number of rhyming couplets, and since my label is called Malligator, I told her that I wanted the title to sound like “Mal-ali-ga-tor.” It couldn’t be “Mal-ali-ga-tor” of course, but it had to fit with the number of couplets.

So, we needed a background. I had given her a copy of The Island Of Dr Moreau, and at that time… well, it was the first wake-up call for the global community. “We’re fucking up globally. We’re going to destroy everything. We’re fucking it all up.” This was the time of the first oil crisis. We started to realize where oil came from, why we were all driving cars, that it was being pumped… it all came from this era. And that very night, she came up with the title, “Supernature”.

I found it really amazing. We spent days and weeks after that learning the lyrics, and the lyrics are trendier today than at the time that they were written. She also got a Grammy Award for her lyrics. I also need to say this: at the time of Love In C Minor, I had the opportunity to be in the right place at the right time. It’s the heavens that give you this chance. To make a career, you also need to have a measure of good fortune – more than the rest – and this is either given or not. Me, I had this opportunity because, at the birth of Studio 54, I had the chance to be out drinking with friends at night.

When I was in a gang, there was Warhol, Gaultier, Goude – all these guys who were total agitators in their fields. Great talents. Gaultier was showing off his pointy bras, Goude was cutting his girlfriend, Grace Jones, into lots of little pieces, and Warhol – well, that goes without saying. When I was surrounded by a bunch of people like them, I had the good fortune of being the youngest to participate. I think that Gaultier was the same age as me. We were freaks, provocative freaks, but we had success. We were all excited. When I was telling you earlier about megalomania: it’s also about your environment. You see what I mean? When you see Gaultier making his pointed brassieres, it pushes you and you started talking. The next day, when you are in the studio, you are not humble. You are driven. You are motivated. Either way, it was an extremely creative period that created the legacy that we see today: in whatever style, in the colors, in the textures; this period had been extremely rich, creatively. I had the good luck to be at the right place at the right time, which means that I had the chance to have a long career.

Patrick Thévenin

With the success of Supernature and all of that, I can imagine that you’re quite wealthy.

Cerrone

That was not really the motivation for me.

Patrick Thévenin

OK, but what was the life of Cerrone like at the time? Were you in discos every night? You were between Warhol and Studio 54, and it was about the parties?

Cerrone

There were 200 concerts, and TV appearances. I was never at home. I was constantly on the road. I was taking advantage of that in a greedy kind of way, because I was sure that it would not last, and then after that… things happen when you have success and you attract media attention. Luck strikes, which happens today [as well]. Today it’s a lot clearer, because people communicate and aren’t afraid to speak out. In my time, it was the birth of that. You have the best stuff and people propose lots of stuff to you, so they asked me, in France, we were asked to do this concert, in the equivalent of Bercy [arena] today, it was in Pantin, I agreed but I had conditions because my heart wasn’t in it.

I said that I will have a concert and I will have a pyramid made of Plexiglas. It was 16 meters tall and wide, could open and turn around, and it became the interface for stage lighting. In our world we had nothing to lose – you become really provocative – so I said that we would blow smoke out of it when it opens and have five naked girls and guys. Evidently, the French media said, “How dare he?” In the beginning of the show the women were the first to stand up, and the guys were staring like that – and I repeat, you have to remember the era – and the ladies were shocked, then we see the guys, who were also naked. Naked.

Then it was the guys’ turn to be embarrassed, as I had picked the right guys. It was provocative. And then the guys were embarrassed because their wives were happy to see a magnificent creature getting naked. If you did that today, it wouldn’t mean anything. It’s really important to keep the era in mind… It was a total provocation, knowing that this would attract the media’s attention. I stayed in Paris for three days before going back to the United States, because I had started living in the United States. I have lived there for 22 years.

Patrick Thévenin

Would these protests probably not happen today? The woman on the fridge, with a yoghurt stain – can we interpret that as...?

Cerrone

Today, when you see that…

Patrick Thévenin

You don’t think that you would have the feminists on your back?

Cerrone

Today, when you see the video clips of American singers, I think we have reached a peak.

Patrick Thévenin

Yes – but you are a man.

Cerrone

I think that we are more acceptable of profanity today. It passes close to vulgarity. People have always complained that I am provocative, but it was that era. There were other French guys who were provocative – like Gainsbourg. You have to say that it was also in an era that was very provocative. Gaultier and Goude, these guys, they are agitators. I wasn’t the only one to provoke. I was motivated to be provocative through music and since I was the only one to do it on a musical level, that’s why it has lasted. I wasn’t the only one, though. We were part of this movement. Today, everyone goes on about pushing the limits, but if a singer, French or American, goes on stage wearing a thong, we just say “Yeah – seen it all before.” There. It’s really important to put things in context.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. And does it correspond to the life at that era – a life of debauchery?

Cerrone

Now you are going into my private life.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. From Supernature, there is something different happening in the sound that we would call “euro disco” where Europe claims disco as its own – was that an opportunity for you?

Cerrone

There is nothing rude about not wanting to be classed as a French musician. I have never been categorized as “euro-disco.” My records were in the American charts. They were not “euro disco.” Why do you want to label me as French?

Patrick Thévenin

Because you invented a sound. And when you think of “Supernature,” which was released before “I Feel Love”…

Cerrone

This sound was not invented in France. The only thing that tethers me to France… Atlantic Records always told me, “Don’t say that you are French in your interviews. This will discredit you.” Since I am Cerrone – it’s Italian: my family is Italian and we feel Italian – they were telling me, “Say that you are Italian.” But I was still born in France. I was never given American nationality, even though I have been asked to do it, because for all these years, I was happy. I find that France is still very intellectual and quite sophisticated. I always wanted to stay French.

In short, in interviews where I managed to show myself as French, I got asked, “What is the French side of you that remains? Your musicians are English or American, the singers are American, and you do everything in English. Your lyrics are in English. There is nothing left.” And I would say, “Yes, there is a French touch...” And that’s when the word got out. What is a “French touch”? It’s precisely that I did not go to America to try to teach you how to do it. I only copy you, but with a little French gimmick. Because it is true, I have spent my life trying to copy the Americans. I love the English, I loved the Americans, and I only copy them.

Daft Punk, in ‘95, when that happened, either they, themselves, or it was the media, they rekindled this “French touch.” Then David Guetta picked up on it again. Today, “French touch” really says something. The French credibility really says something. But it’s the only thing that links me to France. Euro-dance, euro-disco, French disco…

Patrick Thévenin

Euro-dance is not the same thing as euro-disco.

Cerrone

Yes. I am trying to say that this doesn’t concern me.

Patrick Thévenin

You don’t have the impression that there is a “Cerrone touch,” then?

Cerrone

It’s true. Wait – I was living in the United States. I wanted to tell you. I have never recorded in France. I only worked with American musicians. What is left? There is only me left who is French – the mind. When you work with people with talents – session musicians who record 12 hours per day… Often when I say, “People with talents,” I mean people who do not just hold meetings. I am talking about people from the group. Like I told you: I worked with Santana’s band and Jimmy Page from [Led Zeppelin] to make my guitar sounds. I am not talking about people from the studio who play with Enrico Maccias – the poor thing, because I like him a lot – or others. This is not how I worked.

I would try to take advantage of my situation to go and look for guys at the top of their game. Since my style was quite new and young, this got them excited. It drove them to work with me. I made my fifth album with Toto. Toto were quite huge at the time. This made them laugh, but… the whole of my fifth album was made with all of the members of Toto, except the drummer. They did not come to play French disco. They came to play with Cerrone. It’s not disco. It’s just a good sound.

Then disco came and all the record labels saw this phenomenon, with Giorgio Moroder, Chic, and myself. There were maybe four or five names that were huge hits and selling a lot of records. What did the major companies do? They took their local [pop] artists, that would be people like Sheila in France, and they got… I don’t know. I wasn’t around, but I heard about it. Nile Rogers, who had made a record for [Sheila], he was the one who told me about it.

They signed the most important local artists who made disco, but this was not disco. Disco is an atmosphere. It’s the DJs who… it’s thanks to the generations that followed – and are still here today, after 40 years – that I’ve been remixed and sampled and all of that. What did the whole world sample? They took the basic groove. The bass and drums. They didn’t sample the more obvious disco stuff, the violins… And I have lasted thanks to this, you see. I have nothing, as you said, to do with French disco. I am telling you again, I have no concerns with that. But there, you…

Patrick Thévenin

At the time, a French disco scene was emerging with people like Space, Voyage, Martin Circus, all that…

Cerrone

I was not in France. I didn’t know them.

Patrick Thévenin

You do not want…

Cerrone

No. I will not lie to please you.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright, what is also interesting about that time is that you were very prolific. You were producing nearly one album per year, and you had lots of projects.

Cerrone

We are nearly finished a new album. We are in the mixing process right now. When you say that I release one album per year, that means that in 40 years means I have produced 40 albums. When they release the next one, next spring, it will be the 18th album.

Patrick Thévenin

I mean from the ’70s to the ’80s. In 1980, with the Brigade Mondaine project, everything that you did on Malligator, when you produced for Don Ray and many Cerrone releases after that…

Cerrone

In the first seven years, I produced many records. You have certain periods that are more creative than others. You have certain periods where stuff is happening, just like that. At one point, when I left Kongas and the group disbanded, I was a bit embarrassed. The two percussionists had come to play with me – they are still with me, it’s been more than 40 years, two generations… I was a bit embarrassed that I had broken up the group, so I wanted to help them. I met a fantastic guy back in the day. I was a fan of him. He was called Steve Winwood, from the Spencer Davis Group, he made “Give Me Some Loving.”

One night, as we were drinking… it was the birth of mash-up. We were mixing up two titles. “I would really like to mix up some Afro thing with whatever I did with Kongas and ‘Give Me Some Lovin’.’ Would you be OK with that?” He told me, “OK, go on. Do it and then send it to me.” I did it and he said, “I love it. How do we do it?” And I said, “We’ll make it 50/50. I don’t care. We will sell a dozen.” And this was a huge hit. It was “Africanism” [by Kongas and “Give Me Some Lovin’.”]

Patrick Thévenin

Can you talk about Brigade Mondaine, which was a separate project discovered by… I am sorry but it’s a bit…?

Cerrone

He really wants to tie me to France, right?

Patrick Thévenin

No, no. This is a project… It was re-released last year, and it hadn’t been available for a long time. Are you aware of the modernity of this record today? And that…

Cerrone

I have been told that that record is my house record.

Patrick Thévenin

A guy like James Murphy from DFA would like this kind of disco…

Cerrone

I will tell you how it happened. I was on a promotional tour in France. I was staying for eight days. I was spending an evening at Palace and I met a [writer] called Gérard de Villiersm. He was telling me that he wanted to become a film producer and that he would launch a new series called Brigade Mondaine. We had like three, four, five or seven glasses of Scotch – cheers to you – and I said, “Yes, so?” He asks me, “Would you agree for me to have ‘Give Me Love’? I think it suits the film quite well,” and I told him, “Yeah, go on.” The next day, I don’t even remember it. And then after that, I received a telex – we didn’t even have fax machines yet at this point – and the guy tells me, “I’m serious. I really will take ‘Give Me Love’ for Brigade Mondaine.”

“Well…” “Go on.”

“OK.”

One thing led to another and he asked me to do the music for the film. I didn’t really have the time, but I did it in 48 hours. At night, I had this screen, we had these big tapes. I’d watch it, and I was just having a laugh. I did it just like that, by accident. And today, when [the record label] Because told me, “It’s been years, and there are still fans of Brigade Mondaine…” I had made another one – since the first one was a hit, and the film soundtrack was a gold record, we made a second one. And then I made a third one.

Patrick Thévenin

And then, after that, you stopped?

Cerrone

And then, after that, I stopped. We stopped then. The other one – Gérard de Villiers made four. The fourth one was less lucky. It was a flop. But I wasn’t part of that one – just the first three. When Because told me, “We are reissuing them,” I was like, “You are crazy.” They were never released in the United States. I had asked them to not release it in the United States, because I thought that it was not… they were demos. I was playing around. So today, when I am told what I am told, I feel flattered but I don’t want to dwell on it.

Patrick Thévenin

It’s like Malligator. There are many records released on Malligator which are hard to find now. But why is it called Malligator?

Cerrone

People have often asked me that. Kongas, it’s what? It’s African. So, what did I do? I took an African logo, crocodile, and “Love In C Minor” was released, the first vinyl of “Love In C Minor” is Alligator with the same logo. This logo anyway, was the Kongas’ logo. Since it was me who brought it, I kept it. The “Love In C Minor” album was a hit, and there was a label – a small jazz label – that attacked me, saying that we were here before you, we were called Alligator. I went to see a lawyer and I said, “What do I do?” He asked me, “What is your name?” I told him, “Marc.” He told me, “We will call it Malligator.” Ah, this sounded alright. God my name is not Robert, it would have been called Ralligator [laughs]. There you are.

Patrick Thévenin

Will everything that was on Malligator one day get out? Because records is trying to do that in France, and Warner, for the rest of the world…

Cerrone

Everything is getting rereleased. Yes.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright.

Cerrone

It’s a gift. But even though I take much pleasure in telling you about Supernature, Love In C Minor, that Brigade Mondaine… I did it like that.

Patrick Thévenin

You do not have to… you’re wrong.

Cerrone

It was released and then the critics were rather nice, but well…

Patrick Thévenin

There is something very particular with you… you play disco on the stage when it’s really music for a disco, on vinyl. Is it hard to adapt live? We have the impression that it’s really…

Cerrone

I do not play disco on stage. I play my music on the stage. All the people who see me on stage, they’ll tell you that it’s not really disco. It’s more funk. The musicians are more funk than disco. I insist on that, because I know that in France, disco has a connotation without any pejorative meaning, really. Disco in France is considered like “Born To Be Alive,” or Sheila.

Patrick Thévenin

This has changed since then, right?

Cerrone

Give me some names. Go on, I am the one asking the questions now. What is French disco?

Patrick Thévenin

Well, you [laughs]. Groups like Space, people like Bernard Fevre... there is something. I am not saying that, but I think…

Cerrone

But I am talking about today.

Patrick Thévenin

Today, the disco has a more pejorative meaning than what it had…

Cerrone

When I hear people like Justice, Daft Punk, Breakbot, they are not disco. It’s Breakbot, it’s Justice, it’s Daft Punk – it’s their music. They are influenced by American disco, but not by “Born to Be Alive” or Patrick Juvet, I mean, I am telling you – I don’t really have any animosity against all these artists who have their own talents, but you are talking to me as if you can go to butcher and buy shoes. You see what I mean? It’s not the same thing. Excuse me. He is insisting. I am not listing them according to their values, but we cannot mix the red and the blue. They are different.

Patrick Thévenin

And when people like Lindstrøm…

Cerrone

I will explain to you. Disco, it’s not a song. It’s a musical atmosphere. It means that there is an ambience. We don’t care about the length. Besides, in disco, there are no three-minute-long songs. You have to take your time. It’s like seduction… you do not seduce in three minutes. You need some time. Disco is an atmosphere of seduction, which puts you in a feel-good, party atmosphere. It’s not a song. It’s an introduction. You have a verse, a chorus, a bridge, and you finish with a verse. The artistic and musical construction – the DJs did not miss the point, they really understood.

All of the hits today, whether it’s Guetta or others, who are really considered as among the great ones today who are French, we won’t say that they are playing disco, yet they are playing dance music. But when you see the artistic and musical conception, I’m forced to fold on my new album. They have a construction that is not like that of a song, like French disco. They are creating an atmosphere. Why is that? They are performing. They are playing in front of a public and at a certain moment, they raise it. It’s directing a musical show, and this is genius when it’s done with talent.

It’s not a song in the sense that there is brass and that there is a foot all the time, with violins and disco. No, it’s not the same thing. It’s as if you are talking about a high-end fashion show and regular fashion show. You see – it’s not the same thing. I am not saying that disco is a high-end fashion show, but compared to DJs and compared to the professional world, it’s different. It’s the atmosphere. It’s not the song – even though you need tunes – and the DJs have really, really understood that. What did the DJs sample? From Nile Rogers, Chic or myself – even though we are the two who have been the most sampled – they just sample loops. They cannot translate.

And believe me, they try to translate, because when they sample, this costs them 50% of their rights. For me, they try. If they agree to lose 50% of their rights, it’s because of this atmosphere that I’ve tried to define for you. The difference between French disco, especially – if there is any disco I don’t want to be tied to, it’s French disco, because that is just songs turned into disco… True disco – pure disco – there have not been many artists. There was Moroder, Donna Summer, there was Chic, Kool & The Gang, and Earth, Wind & Fire, perhaps me – there are not 50,000 of us.

Patrick Thévenin

At one point in the ‘90s, you started producing huge shows that were quite fantastic.

Cerrone

It was by accident. Like I told you, the pyramid in France, which was a huge hit at end of the day… I spent two days there and I remember it quite well, because it was the birth of my second son. It was the 2nd and 3rd December 1979. It was for the release of my fourth album “Je Suis Music” – that was a really huge hit. Evidently, because the Americans asked me, the English asked me, they asked me everywhere – it started from there. Then I set the standards higher and higher and had the opportunity to be part of a great event in Japan, for the launch of its first high-definition TV satellite [in 1991]. I helped to create a big event for the arrival of the millennium in Los Angeles and with the Dalai Lama [in Nice in 1996], and the bicentenary [of the French Revolution] in Paris in 1989, which Jack Lang asked me to come back to France for. Jean-Paul Goude did the day show, and I did the evening show. There was a combination of circumstances.

Patrick Thévenin

This corresponds to a period when your music was less trendy?

Cerrone

This corresponds to a period where the music I make is nearly outdated. I got out because I was performing a lot, but we were nearly in a period when we are old fashioned.

Patrick Thévenin

And how do you live with that?

Cerrone

I don’t care. I was doing the big events performing for 800,000 people in Tokyo – with colossal budgets, for the launch of first high-definition TV satellite, and you are asked to produce the first hour of the program, what do you have to lose in not knowing where the disco is?

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. At that time, you say that you didn’t want to keep playing music?

Cerrone

But no.

Patrick Thévenin

What brings you back to the foreground?

Cerrone

I had produced a comedy for Broadway that played for 10 months. It was a sell-out, a huge hit – you are far from all this.

Patrick Thévenin

You were writing books?

Cerrone

I was writing booklets for fun. The actor Alain Delon came to eat at my place one day and we got on well with each other. He was in love with Mireille Darc, who was adorable, and we started to get on. My shows and my albums are quite conceptual. One day, I was reading my sheets – there were about 15-20 pages – and I thought, “Are you sure?” He told me, “You have to push on,” I told him, “I will try to live up to your expectations.” This is yet another accident. Fifteen days later, I finished writing Dancing Machine. The film, with Delon and Patrick Dupond, was released in ’89. I got them to read it in ’87. They told me, “Wow, see – I told you to push on,” but it took seven to eight years. That was not wasted time.

He asked me, “Do you want to do the film or will I do it?” And I told him, “Are you allowing me to say whether I am OK with directing the film?” Because at the time, he was still a huge star. He said, “Yes, I am going to see a friend called Pierre Lescure,” who was the president of Canal Plus. Between ’77 and ’80, Pierre Lescure would write to me. He was working with Europe 1. He was a journalist and writing a biography. This helped him to connect with people. So, I went to see him at Canal when he was a big boss. I was passing through Paris and I got him to read it. I told him that Delon had agreed to be part of it and that I would really like to have Patrick Dupond be part of it, too. He’s the star of the Parisian opera today, and the President of L’Opera de Paris.

He said, “Wow. You are preparing a lot of stuff. If you can confirm that the others will be involved, I will work with you on the production.” That was done. I went to see TF1 and in four months, we set everything up. The film was released and it was reasonable success. Many producers and screenwriters sent me their scripts after that, but I am not a cinema producer. I did one, period. I only make music that I enjoy and I only have one goal – to remain in it as long as possible. It’s not the money or the spotlight that interest me. It’s living what I’m living today with a well-hidden private life, to put things in perspective, because the job can be quite overwhelming. I try to put things in perspective.

Patrick Thévenin

You did not really write for other people, aside from La Toya…

Cerrone

La Toya Jackson, yes…

Patrick Thévenin

How was it?

Cerrone

I knew a producer back in the day called Jackie Lombard. I had met Michael Jackson on a few TV shows and at the Grammy Awards, and she called me and asked me, “Would you like to produce for Michael Jackson’s little sister?” I said, “Yes, of course.” She asked me, “How will you do that?” I said, “Bring her to me,” and she brought her to me a few hours later. I was living in Los Angeles and she brought Michael’s mother and La Toya to my house. It was as if she was Michael’s little doppelganger.

We listened to some music and we spent hours and hours together. Her mother spent some time with my wife. La Toya and I spent about five or six hours together in the studio, I gave her some tapes of that time, and she got Michael to listen to them. I met Michael three days later in his studio, and he asked me, “Where will you do that?” I said, “There are so many studios in LA – we will find something.” Then he said, “Well, why don’t you do it at my place?” He was producing the Bad album at the time. I listened to the first take of it. I did it at his place and that’s how the story goes.

Patrick Thévenin

Can we say that your return to the stage came from Bob Sinclar?

Cerrone

No. He ties me to France, again.

Patrick Thévenin

There’s a problem here.

Cerrone

No, no, I don’t have a problem but I am trying to set the record straight. The moment where we were launching Cerrone by Bob Sinclar, you know the album Cerrone by Bob Sinclar? It was him who came to see me in ‘98 and asked for a sample to do “I Feel For You.” Here, too, we did it 50/50. For “I Feel For You,” the musical basis was “Look For Love,” one of the tracks on album four. He added a tune to it. I told him, “You really want to sample my ’70s sound. Meet me in LA. You can do that with my studio with my back-up singers, my voice arrangers.” He was quite happy, and that’s what he did. He came to LA, had my back-up singers and had my sound. He released “I Feel For You” and it was a hit. One night, at The Bain Douche, in 2000, I meet a guy called Pascal Negre, the president of Universal. He tells me, “You know, we have to release a masterpiece,” and I tell him, “It’s not a masterpiece, but I am producing the arrival of the millennium in Los Angeles. It’s in Hollywood, with a budget. It’s a huge event and I love doing that.” I’m a little seasoned at it. I had done quite a lot and they were successful. Why do I care about releasing a masterpiece? I did not even know where dance music was at the time.

It was the arrival of the DJs. I told him, “Listen – if I find a concept one day, I will give you a call.” We were having lunch with Bob Sinclar, and I asked him, “What do you think about doing a DJ set?” I’ll give you all of my masters. You do not do any remixes. You only use originals. Don’t add another note, mix them on your computer and send them back to me.” He said, “I would love to do that,” and I said, “Alright, try it and if you manage to do it, it will be called Cerrone by Bob Sinclar,” and he was like, “Wow, great. I am excited.” He sends them back to me a month later and it sounded alright. I send them on to Pascal Negre, he makes it a hit, but there is no single. So, what I did was re-produce “Give Me Love” in Los Angeles with new voices and a new tune. The single became a success and the album becomes a huge hit. Period. It’s a DJ set, not a remix.

Can you imagine the importance that it had for me at the time? Who was trying to produce a huge thing? This made no sense. So, evidently, coming to France does not make me unhappy. America was changing. There was 9/11, the coming of Bush… the American mentality was not good. France asked me to return, so I am happy to come and spend more time here. My wife and I got an apartment, and then I was asked to do something at The Olympia. I said, “Yes,” but I had a concept. I wanted to play from midnight until 6AM and transform the Olympia music hall into a disco. They told me, “You’re crazy.”

I said, “We will take out all the seats and turn it into a disco, have DJs play before and after I play live, in the style of Studio 54 or Le Palace from the time.”

We did one and it was a hit, so we did another one a year later. I went to the US and they told me to do something huge in France. I remember seeing, at the end of the ’80s, Pink Floyd perform at Versailles. I said that I would really to do it at Versailles, but then I said to myself, “They will never allow me to have drummers in front of the Palace of Versailles. You have 800 cars, tourism – it’s an industry. It’s money. They will never allow it.” It happens that I convinced everybody, the government, the mayor, the police commissioner. In short, we did it and we had 100,000 people there. So, this connection to France… you need one-and-a-half years to do something like that, so I came back to and stayed in France. I still live in France now.

Patrick Thévenin

So, you did...?

Cerrone

I am officially French, even though I’ve spent more than half my life elsewhere. In any case, in the coming weeks, I will be half in France, half in LA. I miss LA a lot. When you’ve spent 22 years of your life in LA, with your kids, who were born there…

Patrick Thévenin

Right now, you are recording…

Cerrone

I am near the end of a new album.

Patrick Thévenin

What motivates you?

Cerrone

I have magnificent people working with me. Musicians like Beyoncé’s wonderful stage bassist. I have Stevie Wonder’s stage keyboard player. I have a guitarist who is a wonderful guitar player. We also have vocal features. I have Aloe Blacc... I even did a duet with a stellar drummer called Tony Allen, who is really the main reference for Afrobeat, and also with a French group called Breakbot. I have forgotten some of the best but it’s an album. It’s been eight years since I last released a new album. I will be really happy when it’s finished. It will be released in spring. Since we are not looking for any spotlight, we’re releasing the first songs, the least commercial songs, in December – for instance, the one with Tony Allen.

Patrick Thévenin

[The EP] is called “Afro”?

Cerrone

Exactly.

Patrick Thévenin

I had the chance to listen to it.

Cerrone

And the title [of the track with Tony Allen] is “2nd Chance.” It has nothing to do with waiting for a second chance, though.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. That is also the return of the Cerrone percussionist.

Cerrone

It’s quite close to Brigade Mondaine.

Patrick Thévenin

The other Kongas, it’s Brigade Mondaine…

Cerrone

Yes, yes. Exactly.

Patrick Thévenin

So, you see, there was no need to be embarrassed about Brigade Mondaine.

Cerrone

Well, this was made spontaneously in the studio. We were playing together. We had no idea what we would keep of it. We got out of the studio and we said, “It’s lame,” we listened to it the next day and said, “Ah, we’ll work on it again.” We’ve finished the first performance of the concept. I did it 15 days ago in Nice, in Nancy: where we set up two drums and did the thing live. I was really great. It was well received by the public.

Patrick Thévenin

Because you really thought about what you were going to do and try to keep the Cerrone feel… how do you avoid the trap that producers of your generation fall into, in trying to make it more youthful? In France, there are many…

Cerrone

Yes, yes. No one can accuse me of that. I have never changed direction. I would rather have disco be “outdated,” if we can say that, than change direction. No one can accuse me of this. But, on the other hand, you cannot be fooled by the evolution that is taking place. You cannot be fooled by that.

Patrick Thévenin

You mean technological advances?

Cerrone

Of course, the sound and tones, the artistic constructions, and cultural – not cultural… I mean the techniques that the DJs have brought. The public doesn’t even notice it, but the DJs changed all of the musical construction of songs in the 2000s. It’s not the same any more. You are forced to follow the movement or otherwise you just become tacky. Getting duped into trying to be young to follow the movement is stupid. There is no artist who can do that, because the public would rather have a young artist do it than an old artist trying to be young. On the other hand, you cannot put on blinkers and not hear what’s happening – especially when it’s good. So, I try, carefully, to do an amalgamation.

I am not trying to stay young, but I’m not fooled by the evolution of what is happening at the production level. I don’t think that the musical evolution has been successful. It’s because of this that all the producers are going back to the origins, you can say, of this dance music style. But you cannot be fooled by the evolution of the production, because it’s the DJs that we call stars today. In my time, we would have called them the stars of engineering, because they have talents. They are not there by accident.

David Guetta, for example, is no 1 in the United States. He is not there by accident. I have seen him on stage. We did something together this summer at an event with 30-50,000 people. He’s also a friend of 30 years… It’s really all right when I say, “Whoa, you have to have talent.” It doesn’t matter if there are 10 guys with him. There are some who will say, “But it’s not him who writes his music...” But what do we care? When it’s released, when the public buy their tickets, they will see a guy who is the artist and be happy when they goes home. Are they disappointed or not? Like I told you at the beginning of our interview, I had never made records on my own, ever. You have to be a mythomaniac to be able to say such nonsense. Talent is about knowing how to be surrounded by the right talents.

Patrick Thévenin

Who are the artists that interest you today?

Cerrone

Oh, there are quite a lot. I think that there are many. I have noticed that there has been a true artistic evolution in the past three or four years. There are so many. I don’t have any specific names to give you right now, but there are quite a lot. We are really in an era where… I did not really like the 2000s EDM sound. You don’t really know which person is doing what, and they all sing the same way. But since 2011, yes, there are some songs. I heard the new Adele album last week… There are really so many things. There are mountains of talents.

Patrick Thévenin

Will you work with them?

Cerrone

You are intrusive. I will only say when it’s done.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. Have you made mistakes in your life? In your career?

Cerrone

Excuse me?

Patrick Thévenin

Have you made mistakes in your career?

Cerrone

Of course.

Patrick Thévenin

They would be… would that also be intrusive?

Cerrone

I do not want to talk about them, because we don’t rest on mistakes. We move on. But it would be pretentious to say that I didn’t make mistakes. Of course, I have. It’s inevitable. Mistakes help you to move forward, but you should not linger on them, either.

Patrick Thévenin

OK. We will finish soon. This will be your last question and then the public will ask you questions.

Cerrone

I would really appreciate it if someone brought me a full glass – is there anyone in this hall?

Patrick Thévenin

When the Daft Punk album was released…?

Cerrone

Do you agree with me? It’s similar to a white curtain. We can’t see anyone from here. We have extremely powerful lights ahead of us...

Patrick Thévenin

When Daft Punk released Random Access Memories they worked with many legendary musicians. Were you a little bit disappointed that you weren’t invited?

Cerrone

I would say no.

Patrick Thévenin

Like, “Giorgio was there, why not me?”

Cerrone

No, no. No, because, no. Wait. I am looking for an answer. I understand that because Nile Rodgers is one of the members of Chic, and Giorgio Moroder was the producer of Donna Summer. Me, I was always quite out in front. I think that’s one of the reasons. You see, [Daft Punk] did not put an artist out in front. Nile Rodgers, he’s a guitarist for Chic. Giorgio Moroder, it’s the first time that he’s out in front. I have been asked quite a lot of questions in the year-and-a-half or two years since it was released: “Giorgio Moroder, this and that, and what do you think of his comeback?” It’s not a comeback.

I’ve met him quite often at the Grammy awards or on TV shows with Donna Summer, and she’s the one out in front. We did not talk about Giorgio Moroder. He was the producer in the background. Today is the era where we talk about producers. I am really glad for him – and in respect to his age on top of that, the poor fellow. Finally, he’s in the foreground. No, it’s not mean… besides, it’s someone who I respect a lot. I mean, when you are 75 years old and you are placed at the forefront, it’s quite amazing. It’s quite unexpected, I imagine. It’s a nice gift for him.

Patrick Thévenin

And what do you think of Daft Punk? A bit like you, they went to the United States, in way…

Cerrone

Ah well, it’s amazing. They really understood. Whether it’s artistically or in respect to sound, I would say that the first thing that touched me about Daft Punk, and that I really liked, was the sound. Even though they copied from everywhere, I don’t mind. They have earned it. They have appropriated from the time. It’s like a singer who sings a tune – we don’t really listen to the magnificent production, they just appropriate things with their talents. And if there is a talent that the Daft Punk have, it’s to appropriate things. We don’t care. I was sampled by them – in agreement – but I promise you that if he didn’t tell me about it I probably wouldn’t even have noticed, because they capture things and produce the texture of their sound. One more time – Daft Punk would not have been where they are today if they did not have the talent that they obviously have.

Patrick Thévenin

Is it true that you are one of the five most sampled artists in the world?

Cerrone

I will be pretentious and tell you that there aren’t five...

Patrick Thévenin

Two? And you do not sample at all?

Cerrone

It hasn’t happened yet, but maybe one day. No, I don’t really need it. I have a big index. I have a big bank account. For, Nile Rodgers, it happened through Chic… I can imagine that we have had 200 successful collaborations that were successful. That’s probably because, from generation to generation, I’ve been sampled and copied, because the nature of the sound prevented me from getting old or outdated – even if certain people would not consider it today. I’m not joking. This has kept me it kept me on the top. This has helped me surf over that.

Patrick Thévenin

Alright. Thank you, and now I will pass the microphone to whoever.

Cerrone

If I manage to see them.

Audience Member

Good evening.

Cerrone

Good evening.

Audience Member

The question that I would like to ask is that I have read Nile Rogers’ autobiography and in it he talks about “disco sucks.” It was an era which was quite violent towards disco in the United States…

Cerrone

That’s correct, yes.

Audience Member

… it seems that there were even bonfires in stadiums, where disco records were being burned. You’ve talked about Nile Rodgers and you talked about the period in which this happened, and I would really like to know your feelings about this event?

Cerrone

Thank you. That feels good. The “disco sucks” thing is what I explained. French, Italian, and other stars or from other countries were asked by record labels to record with disco orchestration – the violins, the brass, the steady beat – but these were songs that Americans did not accept it at all. In the United States there were artists like Barbra Streisand, for instance, who is also an artist whose career we can respect. When I heard the Bee Gees do a track with a disco title, it was on the radio but the aficionados who really liked and understood the atmosphere of disco – which is a bit different – were hammered by the media, because disco is a musical atmosphere. It’s not a tune, even if there is a melody. It’s not the same thing… And the Americans were aggressive. It happened in the ’80s. They called it “disco sucks” – that is, that disco is shit. I do agree with them a bit.

Patrick Thévenin

Another question?

Audience Member

Hello.

Cerrone

Hello.

Audience Member

You were DJing at big festivals this summer, and I would like to know how you feel about huge performances like that?

Audience Member

Ah. Good question. Two years ago, my label, Because ,told me, “You have to do to do a DJ set” and I said, “No, no. I am musician. I really like to perform live. I really like sweating. I really like to watch my bassist and to explore things that are not defined at the beginning.” But they insisted. They started to give me small suggestions that started to ring in my mind, saying , “But wait, you cannot play live like a DJ who plays other people’s hits. If you DJ, it’ll be another way of expressing yourself, you will only play your songs. You can remix them live.” That touched me a bit. It’s true.

So, I’m my studio because I am forced to… wherever I live, whether in France or United States, I am always in the studio from 10am to 8pm. I have to play music. It’s my life. I bought a Pioneer Platinum and Ableton. I started to buy DJ equipment and tried to use it, and I realized that it wasn’t easy at all. But I started to build something and after a couple of months, I told Because that I would like to try it. In short, it has been two years. Today, I have the chance to… they proved to me that if I didn’t agree to do that, I would not have to chance to do huge festivals as I had the chance to this summer, like Glastonbury, which is one of the biggest festivals in the world, in England.

I had the chance to play in front of 30,000, and I saw that they knew half the songs. I never really thought that I could perform live, and that there are huge festivals on other parts of the world where I could do that. I am really glad that he forced me to do that. To conclude, when you are musician and you perform in a public, whether it’s 5,000, 10,000, 100,000, or whatever, it’s really a game of seduction. It’s really a connection… to capture someone, seduce them and bring them to you. With DJing, it’s the same thing.

I can tell you that if you play the wrong song, by the 12th minute or 17th or 22nd, and you feel that people are becoming less interested, you have to keep them under pressure. It’s really a job. At the end of a live concert, or at the end of a set that lasts one-and-a half or two hours, and I move to the front and say “Ciao” to them – well, they are really happy. The only difference that I see between doing a DJ set and a live set is the tiredness that I feel. When I perform live, I can tell you that I am broken into two, because I am getting older, whereas when I play a DJ set, I feel that I can continue. Otherwise, the exchange part with the public is the same.

I have to say that because I have a huge catalog of music and I only play my music, people get into my universe or they don’t. But otherwise, it’s a good experience. I am really glad that I listened to their advice and that I was made to do it. Yes.

Audience Member

Good evening.

Cerrone

Good evening.

Audience Member

Is there a young French artist that you appreciate? By young, I mean an artist who has just launched, or has just recently launched?

Cerrone

Yes. Recently, there has been one: Christine & The Queens. Her concept, lyrics and sound are a revelation. I have never been fond of French chanson, but I see that France really has something serious. I know that she has started to tour in the United States, and the reception is phenomenal. Phenomenal.

Audience Member

Hello.

Cerrone

Hello.

Audience Member

I was wondering that, when you were spending time in New York, if you went out to clubs, what clubs you went to were and what they were like?

Cerrone

We are starting to plan a tour in the United States. The tour is going to come with the release of the new LP, so it’s going to be probably in the spring and summer. Well, we are going to bid you goodnight. Uh, is there another one?

Audience Member

I was curious. You are working now with Tony Allen, and a lot of your earlier music had a lot of African influences. What exposure did you had to African music when you started with the Kongas and these other groups?

Cerrone

I think that the African influence came with my band in the early ’70s, the Kongas. We were really impressed by African music because of percussion. When you are a drummer, of course, you have the door completely opened for African rhythm, because African rhythm is for moving the body. It’s to influence the body, to feel the body. So, if you feel that, of course, that informs your style and this is what happened for me with Kongas.

Audience Member

Good evening. When is your new album going to be released?

Cerrone

I can’t see the lady at the back but, mademoiselle, if everything goes as planned, I think that it’ll be released in March or April. I am impatient for the release. Like I said earlier, a track that I made with Tony Allen will be released in December. Oh, there is something else that I’m also going to release – oh, I am embarrassed, I am embarrassed – with another famous artist. Sorry. Manu Dibango! His manager came to me and asked what could we do together, and you were asking me earlier whether I had done a sample or not, but, yes, it’s true.

I sampled the loop of “Soul Makossa” by Manu Dibango, who I have known for many years because we have crossed paths in concerts since the 70s. I said, “Oh yes, we will do something Afro.” I composed a song around this sample, and this is getting released with the Tony Allen. So, it’s what we called an EP. It’s four songs – all very Afro. It’s the most Afro song and the least commercial on the album, with a remix by Todd Edwards. I have the good fortune to have a lot of people putting their hands on my work. It will be released on the same EP.

Audience Member

Mr. Cerrone? I have a follow up question.

Cerrone

Where are you?

Audience Member

Right here… a follow-up question regarding your recent collaborators. It feels that, throughout the ’70s and until now, the act of producing music kind of switched from being a very communal affair to something done more by one or two individuals. You seem to still work with a lot of people and enjoy that process. Is that still something important to you?

Cerrone

I am not sure I understand your question… OK. OK, fine. I am always working as a band, with the people around of me, because it’s not the same when you work in front of your computer. You can say that, at the end of the day, “Oh, it’s so good. I am so good. I am so well,” and that is not the way I work. I must have a feeling with my musicians. This is why I like to perform and record live: with the real bass players, with real guitars, and to have the influence of the engineer. I’m not the guy who records, pushes the red button, and that’s it. He has to give me something, otherwise, I change the engineer. I mean, my spirit is with the band. I am not a conductor.

Audience Member

Good evening, Sir.

Cerrone

Good evening.

Audience Member

You have built the universe of your sound around drums because you are a drummer, and today drums have disappeared a little bit from pop and dance music…

Cerrone

Excuse me?

Audience Member

I meant, in favor of drum machines and computers, on top of acoustic instruments. What are your thoughts on this? Is it something that saddens you a bit?

Cerrone

I think that I am on the other side of your understanding. I think that drummers have never been in the forefront before; they have never been stars. Now, there is no music style where drums are not at the forefront, whether they are played by a real drummer, or played by a drum machine. At a certain moment, there was someone who played it even if it’s an instrument, of course, but you cannot say that drums are not valued today. They have never been more valued than today. I think that, without any pretensions on my part, whether it’s drum manufacturers, the whole world, original drummers like Tony Allen, or other drummers, I do not consider myself as having been a great technical drummer – but having placed drums in the forefront I think that I have a minimum responsibility. I really think that the drum has never been much in the forefront before. We had never really felt before in the musical universe that we can hear everywhere, the rhythm. It’s the drum. Whether it’s played in real life or played by a drum machine… you know how a drum machine is made? Behind it, there is a drummer who recorded it. So, instead of playing it live, you push a button and you hear what the drummer had played. So, it’s still the drum.

Audience Member

Thank you very much.

Cerrone

If that pleases you.

Audience Member

Good evening again.

Cerrone

You have the right to one more question. You’ve already asked one.

Audience Member

Since you talked about collaboration at the beginning of the night, I would like to know who your drummer idol is, and I would like to know…

Cerrone

Tony Allen.

Audience Member

Bravo. Afrobeat is a really good reference.

Cerrone

Voilà. Otherwise, I would have done it with someone else.

Audience Member

Alright. And if you had the opportunity to set up a supergroup today with any musicians, dead or alive, you would choose?

Cerrone

Ah. No. No. I am not excited… I do not have. No, wait, why do you want me… I still have the chance to have a career that still works, with an album that will be released. I just did a tour, which was fine. Why do you want me to bother myself with setting up with a new group, and restart from square one? If I want to play with a great musician for my record – for instance a great drummer – well, I will call Tony Allen. If I find that there’s a bassist that’s driving me crazy – like when I hear Beyoncé and I listen back to the concert DVDs – I say, “Oh, the bassist, he is so good,” and I call the bassist and he comes and plays on my album. But to then go on a crusade and set up a new group, no, wait…

If I have a bad career one day or I am in retirement, perhaps. But I don’t see the appeal, to be honest. I would invite them to come and collaborate on my album, or for a live performance. It happens quite a lot, that. It’s not enough to hold concerts with Nile Rodgers, because he invites me to the Montreux jazz festival. I do it. It happens quite a lot. Yes, I work with a mixture of artistic people that I respect. But to restart a group, no, it’s not worth my time anymore.

Audience Member

Good evening. I am here. I wanted to ask you, in the ’70s and ’80s, when you have the opportunity to be in the United States, in New York, which clubs did you visit and what were your experience of them?

Cerrone

It was amazing. I can’t tell you. It was quite cheeky. I remember… I don’t know if you were born then. I don’t think so. In ’75, the pill arrived. You have no idea what this triggered. This triggered an excess. At the same time, there was the rediscovery of – even though it never really disappeared – cocaine.

Then came an era which was very provocative. That’s why artists like me, Gaultier, or Goude got out, because this was a very, very provocative era – meaning that you had to be daring. So, in a new club – closed, where no one could come in, not even Nile Rodgers – it was forbidden. That’s how he created the song, “Le Freak.” He was forbidden because you needed to be one of a select few to enter these areas. They were not very big. They were smaller than Le Palace in Paris, for instance. So, no – I really can’t tell you. On top of that, I have my wife in the hall. I would feel embarrassed.

Patrick Thévenin

OK, ladies and gentlemen. Maybe one last question, and then we will let Marc go. Everything is good? Perfect.

Cerrone

Which does not mean that it was a swingers’ club – do not exaggerate that. We still bid you goodnight.