DJ Radar

DAVID NERATTINI

DJ Radar!

DJ Radar

Hello!

[applause]

DAVID NERATTINI

Well, so you call yourself a turntablist?

DJ Radar

Yeah, I guess my instrument is the turntable.

DAVID NERATTINI

That's a difference, between being a scratch DJ and a turntablist? Your work is following that direction.

DJ Radar

I think the difference... a DJ obviously plays people's music. I think a turntablist uses records to make music. It's kind of a flip in the mind type of thing.

DAVID NERATTINI

So you're from Arizona.

DJ Radar

Yeah.

DAVID NERATTINI

There's not many DJs coming from Arizona, as well.

DJ Radar

Not too much. Z-Trip, he's my partner. He's been blowing it up. There's a lot of DJs out in Phoenix, where I'm from. It's really popular out there.

DAVID NERATTINI

So you started as a drummer, as a real instrument player.

DJ Radar

I started out real young, probably like, seven years old. Been playing drums, I still play drums pretty much every day. It's just good rhythm practice.

DAVID NERATTINI

And you studied music as well.

DJ Radar

Yeah, I went to school for it. To be a snare drummer, a percussion player. So that's mostly why I went to school for it.

DAVID NERATTINI

So how was your first contact with DJing? How was the transition from being the drummer to [being a turntablist]?

DJ Radar

I think it made sense to me, when I first started out. I mean, that's why I got into it because it was so appealing to me rhythmically just like what you could do with a turntable. I was doing so much drum stuff, and I started to just think about it, and it just really caught me rhythmically. What you could do, all the rhythmic possibilities, it was kind of endless. But not only that, it had pitch, too. It was just endless, all the combinations you can come up with, like, rhythmically, melodically, and it captured me. I just really honed in on it, and I never thought it would take me this far. To mess around in my bedroom, doing all this different stuff with the turntable, coming up with all these new scratches. It's amazing to me, just how dynamic an instrument it can be.

DAVID NERATTINI

Yeah, especially with records, since you can play any instrument you like.

DJ Radar

Yeah, pretty much. You are limited though, it's not really like a harmonic instrument, you can't play chords, or anything like that. But there's a lot of melodic stuff. Most of it has been recognised as a rhythmic instrument, until now.

DAVID NERATTINI

So how did you start making music? One thing is to scratch, one thing is to make music through [scratching]. Because everybody likes to scratch. Me too, I'm a drummer. You know, that kind of feeling. But going from there, from just 'wicki wakka wick' to [making] actual music.

DJ Radar

I think you've just got to be methodical about it and you've got to really plan it out. When I started, you've really got to think about it. I mean, you can multi-track stuff all day long, and layer stuff, but I like to be more methodical when I make my tracks. I usually write everything out first.

DAVID NERATTINI

You're writing the scratches before actually playing them?

DJ Radar

Right. That's how I got into all this, as far as turntable scoring and stuff like that. It just helped me organise all my ideas, put them on paper. 'Cause that's how I played it when I learned to play piano. That's how I learned, just by looking at the notes and stuff, and so I've kind of applied that to turntables too. Trying to take more of a methodical approach to it, and more of a traditional approach. Like something you would learn in school, or something like that. It's just how I learned, and it always made sense to me that way, like when I was learning scratches, I would listen to Jam Master Jay or all of the people back in the '80s, Cash Money, Jazzy Jeff, just listening to their mixtapes, seeing them on videos. Playing them a lot, over and over, and I just got tired of rewinding all the time, so I would just write 'em out. I would have 'em right in front of me, and that's how I would practice. And I seemed to learn it faster doing it that way, than always rewinding the tape, trying to figure it that way. So I started writing stuff down, and just seeing rhythmically what they're doing. I still do that, even when I analyze, I get together with Q-Bert, analyze a lot of his stuff.

DAVID NERATTINI

[Must] be hard to write Q-Bert [down].

DJ Radar

Sometimes, yeah, he does some really tricky combinations. But he's got some interesting techniques. He's retrained his whole hand, he's really ambidextrous with the cross-fader. Like when most people would have a tendency to always be on, on, on [demonstrates inward scratch movement on turntable], he'll do stuff on the offbeats. You have to really retrain your whole hand. It's like one of these things, where you pat your head [pats head and rubs tummy at same time]. And really, when you start writing it down, it's a lot easier to figure that out. That's my approach to turntables. Back to your question, as writing music for it, I think if you're real methodical about it, you're like: “This is what I want to do,” you got to realise that there are real limitations to a turntable. But there are also a lot of variations you can do, as far as... I like to do a lot of pitch stuff. On most turntables, you have about a three note range on a Technics SL1200. And the third note is a little flat, so you have three notes to really work with. Some of the newer turntables, like the PDX here and the Numark, you really have an octave range, maybe an octave and a half. With the ultra pitch here, you could really go to 50 percent. And that works out to about an octave and a half, so you'd have at least twelve solid notes to work with. And there's a lot of harmonic stuff. So when you start applying that to notation and stuff like that, you can really do a lot. You can write whole melodies around it, then you can go back and multi-track on ProTools, and lay down a bassline. Once it's all written out, do you know what I'm saying? You can have a whole track that's just the bassline, like 'do-do, do-do, do-do, do-do'. You can make basslines, and start stacking it over that. There's so many different ways. You can either start off with the melody, and then lay down a drum tracks, or just doing the hi-hat, like 'tss, tss, tss, tss'.

DAVID NERATTINI

So when you're writing a scratch for a melodic instrument, say, a trumpet, you're writing notes as well?

DJ Radar

Yeah, you've got to think of it like that. I think, like, just all the different textures of the instruments. Like, if you want the trumpet sound here, you're going to score more for a trumpet, and I'll try to find sounds which are kind of in the same range, in the same octave. Once I map it all out, it's just real easy to come up with songs. Instead of: “I'm just going to try stuff, and multitracking, and see what comes,” for me it's more methodical, I like to just write everything out. It's always in my head first, these are just tools to help me get it out.

DAVID NERATTINI

When you write a scratch, you just write the rhythm pattern, and of course the notes sometimes, but even, the way you're playing the record?

DJ Radar

Yeah, there's a lot of accents, there's a lot of different... But I'm not really creeping into new [ideas]. A lot of this stuff has been created, actually in this town, five or six hundred years ago. This is where a lot of techniques started, to be able to score for violin, this is where the concerto started, there's so much history just in Rome. It's just amazing to walk around all the museums, and see original scores and see the first piano that was built. This country alone has so much musical history, it's really inspiring, you know? You've got to respect that 'cause that tradition of music pretty much started here. What I'm doing is, I'm applying some of those techniques that even the masters have used in tradional music, and applying it to a non-traditional instrument. That's pretty much what I do. Yeah, I write out the rhythms, but I'm not creating anything new. Maybe I'm creating some new, like, if there's a new scratch or something, that hasn't been done, on a violin or hasn't been done on a piano, it's going to have it's own articulation. But for the most part, it's already been created. There's already a system and tools.

DAVID NERATTINI

You're just applying that system to scratching.

DJ Radar

Right. And there's a lot of techniques that are already documented like a trill, or something like that. You see, DJs are all... [demonstrates the trill]. It's hard, but there are trills, you can do glissandos, you can do all kinds of stuff on a turntable, same as a violin. I've taken a lot of notes from a violin, how they score for strings and stuff, and I've adapted some of that to turntables. I've adapted some trumpet stuff. A lot of the scratching, like if you go 'doo-wit, doo-wit, doo-wit' [demonstrates moving the record backwards and forwards whilst bringing down the volume], you're just, moving the record back and forward, in trumpet notation it's called a 'doo-wit'. It's like “doo-wit”, the pitch is kind of going down, and then it goes up [demonstrates pitch motion with hand]. And it's the same thing when you're going 'doo-wit' [shows on turntable]. One articulation that's already been created. A 'doo-wit' [demonstrates the cut]. You can hear the pitch go 'doo-wit, doo-wit'. And the same thing with the trumpet when it plays all [makes the same sound with his mouth]. That's called a doo-wit, it's just a unique trumpet articulation. I adapt some of those things, and it just helps me out, to think quicker, and just get it on paper. And I can already see what it sounds like. I think a lot of people, if they have something visual to learn from, it's a lot easier. Can you imagine learning the piano, just listening? It would be incredibly hard if you didn't have notation. So that's what I'm trying to figure out now, coming up with a standardized system for turntables. 'Cause, you know, 50% of people are visual, they learn faster visually, 50% of people learn faster listening to stuff. I like to combine both of that when I teach, it's like how you learn a piano. The same processes that you go through. You learn a lot faster when you have a visual representation. You're like, this is what's going on with this hand, and this is what's going on with this hand, like, rhythmically. Once you know the 8th notes, and 16th notes, and whole notes, and start applying that stuff, once you have a visual representation, it's real easy to figure it out. You wouldn't be like: “Aww, how does Q-Bert do that?” I can write it all out for you, and I show my students exactly what is going on.

DAVID NERATTINI

Then, actually doing it is another thing.

DJ Radar

Right, exactly. But at least they have something to build on, and go from there, but that's all it is. 'Cause all it is is just rhythmic combinations, really that's what it is. And a lot of it, your own style is going to come. I could have the same rhythm that Q-Bert's doing, but everyone's going to play it differently, which is the beautiful thing about music. It's always a unique performance, it's endless and timeless. But having a system like that, it helps you. It shouldn't be like: “This is what you should learn, you have to learn it this way.” With notation, it's supposed to be used as a tool. It's not like the end all solution, like this is what you have to do. You have to play it like this. That's kind of my problem with classical music today. This is how the greats wanted to play, Stravinsky wanted it played exactly this way. But for me, just, composing, it should be left to interpretation. Always.

DAVID NERATTINI

[We don't really know] if that particular piece of music was supposed to be played one way.

DJ Radar

Right, we don't really know. It's like, yeah, there are composer's notes and stuff. But I think it should be up to the musician to interpret that notation, and have more freedom to do that. That's what I like about turntables, it's complete freedom. It's like whatever you want to do, there's no rules, and I'm not trying to create rules, I'm just trying to create tools to help people learn faster, really.

DAVID NERATTINI

So, your influences on making music comes from, of course, DJs, but also other kinds of musicians.

DJ Radar

Oh yeah, I listen to a lot of jazz, a lot of classical. I listen to everything, really. I get inspired from any kind of artist, really. I can see someone's painting, be inspired by it, and go write a song. I can visualise. As an artist, I'm really into the process, the artistic process. As an artist, I can relate to different artists. I get inspired by everything, you know? By any kind of talent. Music is a universal language, that's why I love it. I can see someone on a street corner, playing amazing guitar or something like that, I can be inspired by that. I think there's great musicians everywhere, you can really learn from everybody. I really don't close a door, I open my doors to everything. I don't say, I'm only going to be a house DJ, or I'm only going to be hip-hop 'cause I grew up like that. I like to be inspired by anything. I let it inspire me. I don't ever close my doors to anything.

DAVID NERATTINI

So the first, let's say, the first piece of music you wrote, the first real piece of music you wrote using these techniques, was "Antimatter"?

DJ Radar

"Antimatter," yeah.

DAVID NERATTINI

Was it long work to do?

DJ Radar

Yeah, it took a lot of practicing, 'cause I was like: “Well, how am I going to do this?” I had rough sketches and stuff, and I just wanted to experiment with that, Antimatter. I want[ed] to write out a song completely, the whole entire thing. And that's pretty much what I did. I just scored the entire thing. I started out with the melodies, the basslines, the rhythms, the hi-hats, the snares, the bass drums, and I separated everything in the score. So when you look at the score you can see the whole thing, and what's going on. I just wanted to write it out first. And the fun part was performing it, 'cause I already knew what I was doing in my head. It was just like a test for me, just to see what it would look like, notation-wise. All this stuff, what it would look [like] together. So that was my first real experiment with that. That's kind of how I met my partner Raul Yanez. He's a jazz teacher at the university back home. I showed it to him and he helped me clean it up a little bit: “Well, you could have done this here.” There's so many different ways to interpret notation. He helped me clean it up more from a jazz angle, and really tighten it up. I started talking to him, about a bigger idea I'd always had, which was to write an orchestra piece for turntable. At first, he thought it was outrageous. He didn't really understand what I was doing. Once I showed him the score and everything, he got it. He could see the basslines, he could see the musical side of it. He was really into my basslines, what I was doing, he was like: “Wow, this is not just a rhythm instrument, it's a melodic instrument.” Thank god for that notation, 'cause it's really opened a lot of doors for me, as far as at the university. Being able to show my teachers, doctors and colleagues that there is a musical theory and practice behind this. And once they see on notation, something that they can relate to, it makes sense to them, instantly. It's that communication. It doesn't matter what language you speak, they see the language of music, they understand what's going on. And that's why I wanted to be so adamant about turntable notation. It's a communication for me. I just wanted it to be a communication tool. So that really opened a lot of doors for me in the classical world. And being able to do orchestra performances, and to show that it is an instrument, and that's how, Raul, my partner and I, got to start working on this. Showcasing to the world that this is an instrument, it's a valid artform. It's not just a subculture, it's here to stay. It's not some fad, scratching's been around for over 25 years. It's not a fad. And a lot of people think: “Oh, you just do that 'wikki-wikki' sound,” and all that. But hopefully, having notation and these things, it's helping to break down those doors. To show the world that a DJ is an artist, does do musical things with vinyl, and can apply this to musical applications, other than just DJing a party, or a wedding, or whatever. So that's what I wanted to do, was tear that door down. That's what I want to do to the world, is just, tear down these walls of what DJs... A lot of people think that DJs aren't artists, or that it doesn't take any talent to do what we do. That's my biggest thing, and that's why I'm so focussed on this project. To just show the world that there's a musical place for this in history. That's pretty much what I do, that's why I'm so passionate about it.

DAVID NERATTINI

So you did "Antimatter" all by yourself?

DJ Radar

Uh-huh.

DAVID NERATTINI

Then there was the "Concerto For Turntable." Do you have "Antimatter" here?

DJ Radar

I think I do. I'm not sure.

DAVID NERATTINI

It would be nice to listen to the transition from doing orchestration for only turntables, to listening to a turntable in an orchestra setting.

DJ Radar

I don't think I have the original song with me. But I have the orchestra video. That was a big project for us, 'cause like, it took us years to work on this project. It's just such an undertaking. Most concertos, they take a couple of years to write, to realise. With classical music, you're always learning. It's like, you play something on a piano, sounds great harmonically, everything's working out melodically, but when you start transitioning that into each of the instruments, things just don't work out the same. A G-chord will sound huge on the piano, but sometimes with the orchestra, it won't come out that way. You're always learning with orchestra music, there's just so much to learn, it's insane. First of all, you got to know the range of each instrument. So first of all, you've got to train on each instrument, to be able to know the ranges, what you can do, the fingering. You got to know the fingering really well. And there's just so much. We kind of worked on the project together, it's just such a massive undertaking, to write an orchestra piece, and do it for turntable. So now, we're not only experimenting, but we're also scoring at the same time, so it's like, twice the amount of work. The first six, seven months was a lot of trial and error. Just finding, really, the range of this (points to turntable) and finding out like, OK, I can go from this note to this note, and rhythmically, I can't do this. Really, it was mainly finding out the limitations of the turntable. And then from there, finding out how to write a concerto piece around the limitations of the turntable. So that was the first hurdle to jump through. Once we'd got that, then it was a lot easier to construct the whole thing, and realize it.

DAVID NERATTINI

You got some images. Are we connected?

DJ Radar

Now in this, you'll hear the turntable. What I try to do basically, it's called "Concerto For Turntable". And basically, the concerto was originally written to feature one instrument, as a solo instrument. It's usually a violin, or a piano, or a voice. It can be a lot of different instruments. Basically, it's a whole orchestra piece that features one instrument as the solo instrument. Most of the time it's meant to introduce new instruments, like, there's a lot of new techniques that have been developed. A composer will write a concerto to feature all the new stuff that's been created. So it's basically just to feature that one thing. When we got the idea to do it I was really excited. But there's a lot of history to the concerto, and it's hundreds of years old. It's a classical structure of writing orchestra music. You know, there's themes, there's certain kinds of rules you've got to follow, that are the form. And basically, we followed the form of a classical concerto, and instead of a violin, we just used the turntable. So in the first part, you'll hear me, I really wanted to blend in with the violins. So I actually used a couple of violin sounds, pressed up my own record, and was manipulating a lot of the pitches with the pitch control and the combination of the fader. So I'm getting the rhythm and the pitch at the same time. You'll hear all the techniques, I'm trying to mimic the violin, and this is just the first movement. There's two other parts to this, which we're performing next year, October 2nd, at Carnegie Hall in New York, it'll be the world premier.

DAVID NERATTINI

So it's a three-part concert?

DJ Radar

Yeah. But yeah, it'll be premiered in New York on October 2nd next year at Carnegie. This is just the first movement, and the other two will be premiered there. This will give you an idea. And the first movement is usually just to introduce some of the main themes. But the second and third movements get real crazy, like harmonically and melodically and stuff like that. So this is just like, it's not like hip hop music where you really get verse, chorus, verse. There is that kind of theme in there, but it's really extended, and I tried to really combine both these worlds. 'Cause I come from more of a hip hop background, and I wanted to have that influence on it, and also have more of the classical form of a concerto. So, just a little introduction.

(music: DJ Radar - Concerto For Turntable)

DAVID NERATTINI

So this was all written out?

DJ Radar

Yeah.

DAVID NERATTINI

Even the solo part in the middle?

DJ Radar

The solo part, well in the concerto it's called a 'cadenza', and that's where the soloist can just, it's not really freeform, but has variation to do whatever he wants. Well, you know, some of the instruments can follow that, some of them can't. So the cadenza is usual the feature of the soloist, [where] he can do all of his virtuoso techniques. Basically, we're following the same form. The cadenza is basically the solo part of the piece. That's just the first movement though, there's two other parts.

DAVID NERATTINI

When you play notes, the turntable becomes like a trombone.

DJ Radar

Right.

DAVID NERATTINI

Because you really have to feel the note.

DJ Radar

Yeah, it's a lot of [practice]. Seriously, that melodic stuff in the beginning took me months to practice. I mean, some of it sounds really simple, but just the coordination of it. You've got to be so spot on [indicates pitch control on turntable]. If you're like, half a tone off, you can really hear it in an orchestra hall, so you got to be so precise. It really takes a lot of practice to be like 'de-da-da-da' [shows melody on turntable]. It really takes practice, and it's a whole different type of approach to playing a turntable. You got to be so accurate, I can't even explain. Because when you're playing with a violin, a violin is one of the most accurate instruments. The tuning of it is very [tricky]. Violin players, they have an incredible ear. So to be able to play along with them, it really takes a lot of practice. I can't even stress that enough, how hard it is to play with them. 'Cause violins are such a complex instrument. What I'm doing is pretty simple compared to a violin. Just to be able to follow along, takes a lot. Like, mentally, to be spot on every note.

DAVID NERATTINI

Because there's no real sign. The note is here, but you don't have a sign, so...

DJ Radar

Right. A lot of it is by feel. You really got to have a good feel for it, and be able to correct really quickly. But if you practice enough, you'll know exactly where everything's at.

DAVID NERATTINI

That's like a trombone, like the slide of a trombone.

DJ Radar

Right, exactly. What I've created is like, little gaps so I know where each of the notes are. But it really depends on the sound, 'cause if you start with a D-sound, versus like, starting with a B or something like that...

DAVID NERATTINI

How do you choose the note you start from?

DJ Radar

Well, in the piece you have, it's called a tonal center. Any orchestra piece has a tonal center. The sound I used for that was pressed, there were a lot of different sounds, but one of the main sounds was pressed in D. And that would give me all the ranges of the G octave, to be able to do all the notes. You got to really play around with what note you're going to press up. So I pressed a lot of different sounds, a lot of different notes, and it was a lot of trial and error. Just to be able to have the range, because you may get up here [puts pitch control all the way to the right], and that note may be a little flat. So you really got to plan it, you got to know the limitation of the sound you are using. But you can do everything, as long as you arrange it and plan it. If you get to that, you may need to go on to another groove, or something like that, and you'll have an extra two or three notes. But it's a lot of trial and error. It's fun to me, just to be able to figure out the turntable, how it fits within orchestra music, and just trying different things, different environments and arrangements. We did the orchestra piece, there's some other pieces I've written for multiple turntables, there's pieces for quartets that I've done. I have a little jazz trio I play with, where I'm like the drummer in the band, and I'm kind of like the soloist. Me and the trumpet player go back and forth. I play with a Hammond B-3 player. It's real structured, more of a jazz style. We play in a lot of different time signatures, which is kind of cool. That's the other cool thing about orchestra music or jazz, instead of everything just being 4/4, like hip hop, and house music, always 4/4. So it was challenging to play in other time signatures. Jazz musicians count in 12, they're always counting in 12s, and that's how they're thinking. Even if they're playing half time, they might be playing something really slow, they're thinking that fast.

DAVID NERATTINI

In order to be able to play something that slow.

DJ Radar

Yeah. So to be able to keep up with the jazz musicians has been a big challenge, and that's just a whole other ball game I've been tackling too. I've actually just finished an album with a B-3 organ and a turntable. We have a lot of different musicians. We have a little sit-down night we do on Thursdays, it's like a little jazz night. We're playing all our new arrangements. We're constantly writing stuff, and trying different things. But the jazz stuff, I love jazz 'cause there's so much freedom, to improvise. Basically, like, jazz, there's a lot of freedom to be able to do whatever you want. You just have a lot more fun, to be able to experiment, and try different ideas, different rhythms. Being able to solo with different people, it's real exciting.

DAVID NERATTINI

Is it difficult to do that from a hip-hop background?

DJ Radar

No, not at all!

DAVID NERATTINI

How do jazz musicians see a turntablist?

DJ Radar

I think they see it as a different texture. But I think they can relate to it. I think they can relate to the freedom of it because jazz musicians don't like notation. They use it as reference. Most of the jazz players, most of even the masters, weren't really trained musicians. They had such great ears. They had a lot of control. I think they can appreciate the control. I think it has some of the same qualities as jazz, turntablism. Turntablism as an art has gone through some of the same trials as jazz music. Jazz, for a long time, people didn't think it was a valid music. People were playing, believing, dying for this stuff. Turntables kind of go through that same struggle. People don't think of it as a valid music yet or that it's a valid instrument. Jazz kind of went through the same struggles. But look, 20, 30 years later it's in almost every school, all across the world, there's jazz schools everywhere. And at one point, it wasn't even accepted. Even the media, they came up with the word 'jazz'. That was kind of the media term. But I think we're going through the same struggles as jazz music and jazz musicians. So a lot of things relate to jazz.

DAVID NERATTINI

I read that in Berklee school, they have a turntable class.

DAVID NERATTINI

Yes. Stephen Webber, he's a good friend of mine, he teaches 'Turntable Technique'. He has eight students, it's pretty exciting. He goes through the basics, starts you right from the beginning of scratching. He's like, he works in production, so he works on mixing boards, and he's actually won an Emmy for some of his compositions. He's a guitar player, he's a really good guitar player. But yeah, he teaches turntables. It's crazy, an older guy, older professor of turntables. He's definitely torn down the door to academia, he's opened that door and bridged that gap for the turntable. In a big university, that's one of the biggest jazz schools in the world. To be able to do turntables there, I think that's very exciting, it's great.

Audience member

On the piece that you just played, how many parts did you write just for turntable in the score? How many staves do you have for turntable? ’Cause it's kind of hard to distinguish. I thought I was hearing what was turntable and what was not, but I'm just curious.

DJ Radar

In the first part, what I wanted to do was to kind of hide it within the violin. I wanted it to sound like a violin, in a sense, and I kind of wanted to hide it within that same melody. So yeah, the main melodies that you're hearing were all turntable. The turntable has two staves, the top part is your fader hand, and the second staff is non-pitched. So you have rhythm down here, just like percussion, like how you'd score percussion. It kind of looks like that on the bottom stave. The first stave is all your pitch stuff. If you have a sound and you want it to be a treble clef, you would put a treble clef and score it just like a piano. It's like piano music. I just took the same type of thing, like you're playing piano. ‘Cause you have this hand, and this hand. And you can do rhythms with both of 'em. But this one, you can't do pitch (indicates fader hand). It's just on and off.

Audience member

So you're looping some of the stuff, or you're only performing two lines of composition on the turntable?

DJ Radar

Right, yeah it's just two staves.

Audience member

OK, cool.

DJ Radar

[shows turntable score on his computer] So yeah, it's kind of hard to see but I'll just write something in there [writes notes in on score]. So the first one, you have 16th notes. There's two ways. Say like, this is not actually the note ‘D’. Let's pretend it's non-pitched. In scratching, this is called a baby scratch [demonstrates baby scratch]. Pretend this is non-pitched, don't pretend it's a ‘D’ yet. The rhythm of it is a 1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e. So… [performs the notated scratch] It's pretty much the same thing. Those are actually 16th notes, and down here you can add your… Let's erase all that. I'll try some other ones. Say you had a note in ‘C’ or something like that, and you wanted to do the opposite [notates on the lower half of the score]. Say you had a long note or something. Where are the long notes on here? So say the sound was in ‘C’, we're going to pretend it's in ‘C’. So you can do the same thing on the bottom staff. You see the crossfader, here you see the hand. I'm going ot let the note play a ‘C’. So pretend that's ‘C’ [plays sound]. The crossfader is going to be playing 16th notes now. I'm going to do the opposite. ’Cause remember, the hand was doing 16th notes, now the fader will be doing 16th notes. So it'll be like 1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e [demonstrates cross-fader movement]. That's just the first bar. 1-e-and-a-2-e-and-a-3-e-and-a-4-e. So you can do the same thing on both your hand and your crossfader. There's unlimited combinations between all your... You could do triplets. The crab scratch, that's the general term for it. But in music, it's just a triplet [demonstrates crab scratch / triplets]. Basically, all the crab is, this note, it's being turned off, this note it turns off again, so it's just three clicks. That whole combination right there is a triplet. Those three notes, that's what a crab is, a triplet. And when you start doing more of the crossfader stuff, you can actually start doing pitch stuff, so you can do combinations, instead of just learning to play out whole notes [demonstrates crabbing the fader whilst moving the record back and forth against the needle]. But you know, there are a lot of different combinations. This is just unlimited combinations. But they can all be written out in musical terms. That's the real basics of it. It gets really complex, depending on the stuff that you want to write. You can get as crazy as you want, or however fast you want to play it. You can pretty much do anything, and it's kind of cool. Like sometimes I'll give my pitch parts where I'm playing... (plays note again). This is a horrible sound. All my records got lost on the plane, so I don't even know what I'm playing.

DAVID NERATTINI

That's why we have this problem.

DJ Radar

Basically, if I had the.. I don't know about this turntable. Right here, you'd have the whole octave and a half range, so you'd have the [sings major scale]. And with all those variations and notes, you can do unlimited things. You could do: [sings a melody whilst scratching], it's just unlimited. So however you want to write it out, it can be performed. Once I write stuff out, my partner, he's a jazz piano player, so he'll actually play out some of my parts, like, real simple. And I can actually play right along with him. So we do a lot of call and response, stuff like that. So, I'm still experimenting, you know? It's endless, and it's something I'm going to be doing forever. I won't ever stop, you know? I think it's the greatest thing in the world, to be able to make it more musical, and communicate with more musicians. Being able to play stuff that they can play, too. It's kind of cool, too.

Audience member

Well, first off, I think it's absolutely amazing what you're doing. Really pushing the whole turntablism thing beyond ‘wick, wick, wick’.

DJ Radar

Right.

Audience member

So that's great. But my question is, when you're in Pro Tools and you're mixing everything down after you've thought up the idea, do you not find that you might do a part and go like: “Oh, I screwed that part up,” and go back and redo it? So I'm just interested to know how you would perform this stuff live, because some of it sounds really complicated.

DJ Radar

Right, it can be. But notation is just a sketch of what you want to do. It's not really like, set in stone. Like there's still stuff I'll do in ProTools that's like, freeform. I'll just write out a solo part that I have in my head. Q-Bert does that a lot. He talks out his scratches. He's like [does an impression of scratching with the mouth]. He has this whole communication device with his mouth. It's really bizarre. But yeah, I can write out a great solo part, but it just won't come out the same. I'll scratch that sometimes, just solo over it, do my own thing. Notation's not supposed to be set in stone. It's just a rough structure so you don't forget stuff.

Audience member

So you do find yourself doing multiple takes on different parts?

DJ Radar

Yeah, oh yeah. Or sometimes the rhythm won't work out, I'll just have to swing it a little bit, or shift it over a little more, or have to perform a little different. That's why I think that notation is supposed to be wide open, it should be open to interpretation. Always. There's parts in our score, they just have slash marks. Like in jazz music, slash marks means ‘improvise’. And we have parts like that for each of the instruments. But they got to stay in this key. But we'll put slash marks, or we'll let them do whatever. So I want to give the orchestra freedom, too, to be able to do that. ‘Cause that's the thing, I want to change orchestra music. And like, the whole thinking of it, they go to school, and they play all the great pieces like Mozart pieces, Beethoven, Bach. They learn all those pieces and they can play 'em exactly how they were written. But for me, I want to write music where it can be interpreted, and they can freeform over it, or they can do whatever. I don't know if any of you have heard of Ornette Coleman? They say he's the grandfather of freeform jazz. He created freeform, or the term ‘freeform’. Being able to freeform as an instrument. But he does that with a whole orchestra. He lets them do whatever they want, basically, which I think is pretty cool. I think there's limits to everything, you know, and I like to see balance in everything. Notation is supposed to be just a tool. It's just a map. It's just like, "OK, I want to do this here, I want to do this here," just to see how everything works out. And just so you don't forget stuff.

Audience member

I think it is cool that you are keeping it in a freeform stance, 'cause that's really where scratch came from. I think that’s what makes it such an original instrument.

DJ Radar

Right.

Audience member

Rather than always reading music, scratch DJs have evolved so much because there hasn't been a box or a sheet in front of them.

DJ Radar

Right.

Audience member

So it's a nice balance you're creating with that. But I'm interested in how you approach recording it. What's your ultimate goal, if you can have one scenario, maybe if you had a full orchestra of turntablists, and came to mix that in more with a real orchestra? What would be your ultimate dream to have on stage?

DJ Radar

There's so many different projects, and there's so many different avenues. It really depends on the project, and every project has its own goal, and I think you should always have goals, in everything you do. For me, this whole orchestra thing in the beginning, I thought it was impossible. I was young. I was like, 13 or 14 when I first started thinking about it. I was like, "There's no way I'll ever be able to do this." It took me a good ten years, to do it. For me, that was the ultimate. I just wanted to play with an orchestra, and it was an amazing experience. Musically, it was so overwhelming. I can't tell you, when I first performed this, with an orchestra back home, it was just such a powerful experience. First of all, there was 4.000 people in one auditorium. And it's one of the best halls in the United States for orchestras. To be able to be the first person to do that, be the first person to play in that hall 'cause I grew up going to orchestras there, and it was like, it was a big deal for me. It was like a pretty emotional experience, it was so powerful to be able to play with 60 or 70 musicians. And just to hear it, sonically, it's not like… When you hear orchestra music, it's real 3D. When you're in the audience, you hear stuff sprinkled all over the place. You hear melodies going on throughout that, the woodwinds, into the violins, back to the violas [indicates stereo positions with hands]. It's an amazing experience, just to be on stage, and have it all come together, you know? It's amazing that something I thought of as a dream, I'm actually performing it. It never really sank into me until that day, you know? It was the most amazing experience.

Audience member

Yeah, I can imagine. 'Cause as DJs how many people are we up usually on stage with normally, you know? Even if you're doing a team turntablist thing, you might have four guys maximum. So to have an orchestra, with all the textures down low and up high.

DJ Radar

It's huge. Until you're in the orchestra hall, there's where you really should hear orchestra music. 'Cause that's where, the dynamics, you can really hear everything so clean. If you're on an orchestra stage, and you snap your fingers, you can hear the sound go: “Pppppf” [impersonates sound of reverb]. It's really weird how sound travels in those halls. It's such an audio experience. It's not like what you hear on the CD, it's so different. It's 3D, it's 3D music. It's definitely an experience. As far as production, I try to capture that in the piece. So when I'm in the studio and I'm recording an orchestra there's lots of tricks to make it sound like an orchestra. You've really got to think 3D. I always like to think that way. I'll pan my violins over here, just like you'd see them on a stage. Pan your basses a little bit over here, and have your horns and tubas [shows with hands]. And kind of pan stuff a little bit. It's been fun, 'cause I've been doing a lot of stuff in 5.1 surround. So I'll start moving stuff around the speakers, there's just so much to work with. There's always so much to do. In some of the other pieces, in the second movement, I'm thinking of putting speakers up on the balcony. Like with this thing, the quadraphonic thing [shows switch on mixer], I'll be sending the melodies all around the whole orchestra. In the crowd, there'd be a speaker right there. I want to do stuff like that, and really take it over the top. It's just endless, so every project's different. But as far as recording goes, it's really hard to capture that. And I'm really geared for performance. Most of the compositions I work on are geared for live performance. I think of tnem on a stage and it's kind of hard to translate that to a studio environment. But there's a lot you can do with 5.1 surround sound, and stuff like that. You can really capture that pretty good and sample it too. You're constantly learning, you'll never stop learning. Just trying to convert it over to live recordings. I think as an artist you should have a balance of both. You should be able to capture stuff on CD just as good as you'd capture it live. And my whole thing is like, if you can't perform it live, I don't like to record it. I guess it's different for every project.

Audience member

I just wondered if you have your own ideas about how to improve this typical turntable and mixer setup. You play your own melodies, and I think it would be great for you to have buttons to play them.

DJ Radar

Definitely. Just like, a piano or something? Is that what you're thinking, the melodies? Yeah, I think there's a lot of great ideas. It's just so expensive to make changes. You wouldn't believe, like, this stupid thing right here [holds turntable pitch control], probably cost about 20,000€ to manufacture and produce. It's just so expensive when you make changes to a turntable. But yeah, I'd love to make a million changes to these things, and that's what I'm working on right now. And the turntable I performed with, I actually had to make all the modifications myself. Like on this turntable right here, it takes a second for the pitch to catch up. So I had to go in here and actually tweak the electronics a little bit so that it's spot on. So, if you go right here [moves pitch control], you're right there, right to a ‘D’. There you're going right to a ‘C’, and so on. So I'm constantly making modifications to these things, doing my own stuff, just ‘cause it has to be that tight. I mean, technology has already influenced DJs so much. I remember back in the day, you were lucky to even have a working crossfader. The crossfaders, they were all static-y, didn't work right, buttons were all flying off, breaking all the time. You know, the old mixer, the old Jazzy Jeff mixer was a huge landmark for turntable productions. They actually made a mixer more designed for scratching. There's more tools and the better your tools are, the better you are. I think it's always going to be evolving. I mean, I have ideas for turntables. I'm working on it. It's hard. It's so expensive, you know?

Audience member

Do you ever play percussion or drums over your records?

DJ Radar

Yeah, sometimes. It just depends what kind of sound I'm going to go for. I like to do all the drums myself, on turntable. Trying to translate drum rhythms to turntables is mostly what I've been doing. But yeah, I'll work with conga players, or sometimes I'll play the parts myself. It just depends.

Audience member

That was my other question as well, sorry. I've got a couple of questions here. Did you take any rhythms from other music? Do you approach from a percussion point of view first? What sort of thing do you...

DJ Radar

There's one scratch I took from in particular... His name is Clyde Stubblefield, he was James Brown's drummer. That was who I used to listen to over and over, when I was like, eight, nine years old. I had this James Brown record, and I would play over every song, and try to play what he was doing. And there was this one rhythm, it's called ‘the shuffle’ [beatboxes the hi-hats]. It's a really cool, kind of a jazz thing. But I got influence from that and made a scratch just like that [finds cut on record]. It's on the other side. Well, I call it the shuffle, but it's something I created from that rhythm, from Clyde Stubblefield [demonstrates the pattern by cutting a kick and snare]. I took that same kinda idea, and…

[applause]

DAVID NERATTINI

Like 16th note triplets?

DJ Radar

Yeah, you're actually making the hi-hat sound with the crossfader. You're using the stuff in between, the stuff right there [plays the surface noise between the kick and snare], to make that… [demonstrates pattern]. But I'm always trying to translate, I love his rhythm so much. James Brown always had the best drummers. I take stuff from everybody. Like, everybody does, every composer. John Williams takes stuff from everybody, he's one of the biggest rip-off composers. He makes great stuff, I don't want to take anything away from him. Composers, that's how you evolve. By taking stuff, bits and pieces here and there. It's inspiration. But as long as you give credit back to them, and that's my whole thing, like, anytime I take an idea from somebody, I'll always make sure I give them credit. Like the whole concerto thing – this town is where the concerto was created. I got to give respect to those people who paved the way over the last 500 years. Always pay your dues, make sure you respect people that came before you. And even turntables, there's nothing... In my class, I teach, that's the first thing I do. The first eight weeks are just the history of scratching techniques. “OK, Jazzy Jeff created this, Jam Master Jay created this, obviously Q-Bert's created a lot of the stuff.” I think everyone has their part in history, big or small. And I like to include as many people as possible when I teach and stuff. Back to your point. You can take stuff from – like, an idea from a drummer, and just trying to translate it to turntables is what I do. I'll hear a melody or something and just try to play that on the turntable, just to see if I can. To see if it's possible, you know? I just like to be inspired by everything, you know? I think you can learn from everyone, you can adapt, you can get ideas from loads of different sources.

Audience member

You were saying that you play with a jazz band. I was interested in what the drum patterns for the jazz would sound like.

DJ Radar

Well, a lot of jazz is in 6/8 time, so it's like... [demonstrates cutting beats in 6/8]. And they're playing [sings bassline in 6/8]. I have other hi-hat sounds where I'm like 'tss tss-tss-tss'... And I then I have it all sectioned out. I'll make my own records with it all. So I'll start it out, like, with the snare or the hi-hat [imitates jazz hi-hat patterns]. Then I'll throw in the snare drum [imitates drum pattern]. Stuff like that, just trying to play the jazz rhythms. Trying to do it in 6/8 time is a whole other [thing]. You've always got to be counting. ;Cause these guys always know when the breaks are coming. They know it 120 bars out. And they're right on the money, every time. Everybody is counting, everybody is counting in twelve, all the time. And that's a whole other ball game, to keep up with these guys, ‘cause these guys are cooking. They are right on the money. So if I mess up, I kind of mess them up. So that's a big challenge, to keep up with professional jazz musicians, who are just ripping. So it's a humbling experience, you know, just to keep up with those guys. But I learned a lot from them. And it makes me a tighter turntablist, to be spot on, all the time. Those guys will walk in the studio, and in one or two takes, they'll do the whole track. That's their whole thing, they're just such trained musicians. They're used to just walking in, and doing it just perfect, in one or two takes. Like John Coltrane, he used to walk in, he was a one take wonder. He would fire you if you weren't recording his [first take]. People thought he was warming up. He would fire you if you weren't recording him. They're used to just doing it perfect, 'cause they're so trained. They're some of the most trained musicians in the world. And it's great back home, 'cause the university I live by, it's a great jazz school. So I get to play with a lot of those musicians. They come out to my night, they come out and trade with us. It's a great experience. They get to play out live, and just to be able to do stuff, and trade it up with us. I'll be soloing back and forth with a trumpet, there's that whole call and response thing, he'll take 6 bars, I'll take 6 bars, he'll take 12, I'll take 12. He'll take 4, [I'll take] 4. 2, 2, 1, 1. It's really fun, it's a lot of fun. Whatever, I mean, you can get inspiration from everything. That's pretty much my whole vibe right now. It's just so inspiring to be able to play on a stage, with an orchestra.

David Nerattini

The sound is really powerful around you.

Audience Member

Which music was playing?

DJ Radar

The first movement, "Concerto for Turntable."

David Nerattini

You wrote that with...

DJ Radar

Raul Yanez, yeah.

David Nerattini

What was the the influence? The piece was like an early 20th entury Stravinski.

DJ Radar

Yeah, kind of. There are a lot of influences in there like there's even Latin rhythms in there. There's a lot of different stuff. Even Raul, he's an incredible jazz, Latin jazz piano player. He'd put stuff like that in there, there's a lot of hidden stuff. There's themes to everything in there. We could spend all day breaking it down, all our influences and stuff like that. You can definitely hear it.

David Nerattini

Do you still have time for mixtapes, and clubs?

DJ Radar

Sometimes. Not really. This is pretty much all I've been doing. Just gearing up for the next couple of performances next year. I do some club stuff here and there when I can. I'll never stop doing that, that's a lot of fun.

David Nerattini

Are you going to make a record of the whole concerto?

DJ Radar

Yeah, there's going to be a DVD coming out. When we do the other two movements in the next performance. At Carnegie, what I'm hoping, is to be able to record the show and give you a DVD at the end for all the people that came. So yeah there's going to be a DVD, there's an album. I've already recorded the first movement in the studio, so that's going to be coming out. I have a whole solo album I'm working on, that's more orchestral-influenced pieces that aren't necessarily concerto. Just stuff I was inspired from that just couldn't fit into there so I have a whole album with just like turntable quartet pieces, and just all kinds of stuff. It's more on the orchestra side of things. Turntable and orchestra, that's kind of my thing I guess.

David Nerattini

So you're in a crew, the Bomb Shelter Crew. Have you planned doing something similar to this with your fellow crew members?

DJ Radar

It's just hard because Z-Trip tours with Linkin Park, and has his own deal out in Los Angeles so... He's traveling so much. It's hard. We grew up together DJing, me, Z-Trip and Emile. Actually Emile started the Bomb Shelter DJs back in '90 or '91.

David Nerattini

I read that you met them through your sister.

DJ Radar

Right, yep, sure did. My sister used to go out to clubs a lot and she knew all the DJs and stuff. I was like 12 or 13 years old, and back in the states you have to be 21 to get in these places. My sister somehow got me into these clubs. So I met Emile and Z-Trip. And Z-Trip was one of the biggest hip-hop DJs on the west coast at the time. Still is, I mean, he's huge now. So both of them took me under their wing. Emile is more of a techno DJ, and he plays drum & bass. But he was like a hardcore techno, playing breaks and electro, even back then. He's an amazing DJ, like I wish he was here cause most of my inspiration is from Emile. This guy is genius with music. So I get a lot of inspiration from him. But both those guys took me under their wing so I had the hip-hop influence and then the whole electronica influence shaping me and learning a lot from them. I was already scratching, but when I met Zack he showed me more of the proper techniques, marking your records, things like that. And Emile was teaching me more about electronic music so I was like Emile's understudy for awhile, still am, always learning from him.

David Nerattini

Are they into this orchestral thing?

DJ Radar

Yeah. They came out to the premiere. They're definitely into it. We've all been going in our own directions, and someday we are going to reunite again.

David Nerattini

Make a record?

DJ Radar

Yeah, yeah. Down the road. Just combine everything. We've gone out in all these different directions and we'll just come back and it's going to be huge.

David Nerattini

So in the early days of turntablism, in the early '90s we started to talk a lot...

DJ Radar

Yeah I think it was '94, they actually called it turntablism.

David Nerattini

Do you think we are in the first stage of playing music with a turntable? For the first 10 years, it was mostly like guitar players, it was more flashy.

DJ Radar

Yeah, a lot of flash. Like body tricks and doing stuff, and flipping up, doing handstands on the turntables. Yeah, there was a lot of flash. I think there will always be that. It kind of went through, in the '80s, Van Halen, it went through this Van Halen stage, and we went through our Van Halen years on the turntables. The flashiness is definitely a part of it, part of a history, you can't deny that. I think now it's more a musical approach cause you have people like D-Styles, and Gunkhole who are doing more melodic stuff. That's where I think it's going. It's more mastery within melodic lines. At least that's what I'm working on but I think you're gonna see a lot more mastery in the next 10 years. I hope you'll have complete pitch control on your hands, being able to go from a D to a E, D to a G and knowing the pitches. Hopefully it'll get to that level, I know it will. It's more into the musical era and it's like a new renaissance for turnablism.

David Nerattini

If you have to say something to a guy who is willing to learn this art, what would you say to him?

DJ Radar

Just make sure you practice and that's what it's all about. Every instrument is about that, it's just lots of practice and just dedication. You should just do what you want to do. I see a lot of people get stuck in just doing one type of music and that's fine. If you love it and you're passionate about it, do it. Just do whatever you're passionate about and, hopefully, you're just around positive people. That's why I think this is great because everyone seems to be hardcore into music and open to a lot of ideas, so I think that's the key to music.

It's a key to a lot of my success is just opening every door possible. I'm not closing doors. I'm not going to be like, "OK, if it's not drum & bass and it doesn’t sound like drum & bass I'm not even going to listen to it." That's stupid because electronic music... It's called minimalism and in the [inaudible] world it's already been done. It was done 100 years ago, minimalism music like repetitive loops and stuff like that. It's already been created.

There's stuff to learn from everything. You can't just say that you're creating something new because, chances are, you're not. You're just updating music, basically, you're just updating the sound or something or there's a new sound, like a new sampler that has all the new sounds. It's not really anything new that you're doing.

David Nerattini

It's just music. Probably the instruments to make music have changed through the years, but the music really didn’t change.

DJ Radar

Right, exactly. I just think for someone starting out, you just got to have a lot of patience. It takes a lot of practice in any instrument or anything you choose to do. Even working in a studio, learning the mixing board and how to mix, it just takes, just like with anything, just trial and error, a lot of practice and just do what you love. Don't get stuck in one way. I just think just follow your own path and don't let people influence you too much. Just be your own person.

David Nerattini

When you make music, you use only turntables. You don't use samplers and…

DJ Radar

Oh, yeah, I use all kind of stuff. I have a full-blown studio with everything, but I like to focus on turntable stuff. It's fun to me. I just love scratching so much. That's what comes natural to me, but yeah, I have piano arrangements. I do have my own arrangements or non-turntable stuff. I've produced hip-hop beats for tons of people back home and just a lot of different things. I like to do all those things because I learn from everything. I always like to learn. I just love to learn as much as I can, but I like to just be a master of one thing and my one thing is turntables.

David Nerattini

Any more questions? No? Yes. Microphone?

Audience member

I wanted to know, did you release any battle records so far?

DJ Radar

When I go back home, the next couple of months, I'm working on my own record, just from all the stuff I've been developing over these years. New drum patterns, new drum sounds. Stuff that works well with scratching, stuff like that. I'm going to put out my own record of just, totally unique sounds. More melodic stuff, so you can do a lot more melodic stuff. A lot of different sounds, you know. I mean ‘ahhhh’ and ‘fressssssssh’ is just kind of like... I know Q-Bert and them have try to make that the standardized sound. You know, like a trumpet has its own sound, or a violin has its own sound. Q-Bert, we're all trying to standardize it. Try to make it have its own… I mean, it fits within the low parameters here. I like to go out the box and try to do a little bit of everything. I want to come up with all kinds of new drum patterns, instead of just the kick-snare-kick. I want to come up with three kicks, snare. Different combinations that you don't really see on battle records and stuff like that. I'm going to be releasing my own battle record. I don't know if you know DJ Focus at all? He and I are going to collaborate on a battle record. That's all in the works, that's all coming out later next year.

DAVID NERATTINI

Anyone? We have no more questions. I think this was enough. Thank you very much from all of us.

DJ Radar

Oh, thank you.