Hype Williams

Jeff Mao

Ladies and gentlemen, won’t you please join me in welcoming the auteur, Mr. Hype Williams.

[applause]

Welcome, sir.

Hype Williams

Welcome, everybody. Thank you very much for coming today. I appreciate it.

Jeff Mao

We’re here in 42nd Street, Times Square, a place where back in the day, lot of people came to watch films on the weekends and whatnot. I don’t know if that was a part of your experience being a native New Yorker. But I’m curious to know when and where did you fall in love with the moving image?

Hype Williams

That’s a tough one. It’s probably at a very young age, younger than most. Stuck in front of the television, just kind of five or six years old, like plugged in. That’s pretty much what happened. Films at that time were mostly on television. You know what I mean? It wasn’t like it is now I guess is what I’m really struggling to think about. It was like literally stuff that would get broadcast on network television. Old movies. That’s how I got turned on to it.

Jeff Mao

Where did you grow up, for those who may not be aware of your history?

Hype Williams

Well, I’m from New York, St. Albans, Queens which is a little part of the borough. Literally, Q-Tip’s grandmother lived around the corner from my house. I went to Catholic school at Run-D.M.C., just stuff like that. So that part, that little part of where I’m from, that’s like a very special part of New York, I think.

Jeff Mao

What was the music that was impacting you as a child? I mean, obviously, the moving image is something that is the focus of your life. But music is also the focus of your life. When were you first captivated by sounds that you might have heard around the house?

Hype Williams

I had one of those houses where my older brother lived in the attic. He just turned me onto everything. He would play like old Stevie Wonder and old Doobie Brothers, just like the weirdest mix of stuff. But at that time, there was no hip-hop. So all the music that I grew up on was soul music, which is like Stevie Wonder, must have listened to Songs in the Key of Life my whole growing up. So it was like a visual music came from soul music. I think that’s a lot of us, like the people that I’m associated with that come from that era. We didn’t have hip-hop. So it came to existence while we were growing up. Does that make any sense?

Jeff Mao

Yeah, absolutely.

Hype Williams

So that’s what happened. It’s just like this weird thing that growing up in New York, the different boroughs, everybody had a different perspective, different type of person who introduced them, like a different uncle who lived in an attic or brother who’s in a band or something like that.

Jeff Mao

When you were listening to music as a child, were you visualizing the music even at an early age or was that something that came a little bit later on?

Hype Williams

I’m going to say it was always there because music is colorful. That era of music especially is like, it’s on analog. There was no computers, things like that. It just seemed that way. You’ve heard it that way. Remember, Stevie Wonder was blind. So the fact that he was able to be the level of artist that he is without using his eyes is crazy. You know what I mean? There’s no electronics to help him. He was playing those instruments. I think those things affected me, affected all of us. I have these conversations by the way with my peers, like these guys that I grew up with, like Puff [Daddy] and Jay-Z. Those guys would only talk about music. This is stuff that we talk about. It’s just where we came from.

Jeff Mao

You mentioned knowing music before hip-hop. What was the gateway then, the entry point for you as far as hip-hop and it becoming a part of your life?

Hype Williams

I think it was through the original stuff, like the original stuff that came out of New York was Funky 4 + 1, and that probably sounds real crazy to you guys but that was the name of the group. Those guys had records. Melle Mel and those guys had records. The stuff that we were hearing, the first rap was literally the first rap. So that’s how far back I go. You’re taking me way too far. I didn’t mean to talk about any of this by the way. I was going to come out here and try to go forward, and he’s taking us backward.

Jeff Mao

Just trying to get a little sense of your foundation because it profoundly influences everything that comes after it. Well, I guess I’m curious to know then as far as just getting into the professional realm of doing this, what was the turning point for you?

Hype Williams

You have to restate that one.

Jeff Mao

Well, you went to school to study film, right? At Adelphi. When did you get your break in the business?

Hype Williams

OK. It was a very small production company here in New York. They had a little broadcast network, what’s called a UHF channel. I don’t know if you guys know anything about that. But that was the first kind of glimpse of a broadcasting of music videos that were based on rap. I just couldn’t get enough of it. It was like one of those things that all of us, just we were tuned into it. It was a Video Music Box, that was the name of it.

[applause]

I was one of the kids. They brought me in young. I don’t know. Somebody just saw that I had some kind of talent. They let me just be creative in that environment. So I was... I’m sorry. Can you restate the question one more time?

Jeff Mao

No, just how you got into production and...

Hype Williams

Right. I was the driver or the gopher, if you guys know what a gopher is. So I was the gopher for like Big Daddy Kane and Kool G Rap videos, Public Enemy videos. I used to drive Chuck D around. Now, this is old school stuff, man. But this is I guess where it all comes from. I think what I would like to express by telling you this is that I’m from the beginning of the whole thing. So this is real. So I would sweep floors, and so did others. Like when I was a intern, Puff was also an intern. So we have that in common. I saw him do it differently. I think those beginnings, I think that’s the right answer for you. That’s really how we got influenced, by the pioneers. I remember Russell [Simmons] was around when he was just getting started with Def Jam. He was like a icon to us, that kind of thing.

Jeff Mao

When did you sort of say to yourself, “This field, this genre of filmmaking is what I want to do?” Working on music videos, working in production, like you said, as a gopher, a production assistant or whatever it might be, it’s grueling work. You are the first person on the set and the last person to leave. But what was it about that experience that really motivated you to make it what you wanted to do?

Hype Williams

Well, it was by accident. I have to say, I never wanted to do music. That wasn’t my thinking. I wanted to get my hands on a camera because I had ideas and I wanted to be a filmmaker. The first opportunity that I had was to work with Ralph and those guys, and I saw music videos, and how production was done differently from the way I taught in school. So I thought, ‘OK, I’ll do this to get my hands on the stuff that I want to learn.’ And I ran around and talked to all the camera people and all the crew people who worked in videos, and annoyed everybody. Everybody hated me because I just wanted questions answered. But it was never to do music. It was more to get a hold of the tools. But what I found out was the stuff that was being done at the time was so shitty. It just felt like I could do it much better because they didn’t love it.

The people who were doing it at the time – I’m not trying to be insulting, I’m just letting you know from a young person’s point of view, it just looked bad all the time. There was rappers in junkyards and shit like that. The early rap videos were not good. So I thought, well, maybe someone should apply themselves differently. I tried. I tried to talk to these people because I was into film to apply these things, these photography-based things, [like] lighting, and no one would listen. So I just said I’ll just do it myself.

Jeff Mao

Was there a particular inspiration in terms of just filmmakers, films, things that you saw that were of the quality that you felt you could bring to hip-hop music videos at that time?

Hype Williams

It was a myriad of stuff like that. But there was woman a long time ago who worked at a record label when I was a young kid. I was a gopher, just dropping stuff off at the office. She would listen to my stories about how I wanted to be this great director. She likened what I told her to three filmmakers. She said, “To me, you’re a combination of these three guys. I want you to go study these three guys.” The one was Jean-Paul Goude, one was Jean-Baptiste Mondino, and I think it was Michel Gondry.

That was the three. She said, “You look at these three. I’m telling you, this is how I see you, as a combination of this for your culture.” This is an Italian lady, young Italian lady. She just gave me so much confidence. I still look at those three as groundbreaking for their era. If you guys know those names, they’re impressive names. As a kid, I didn’t know anything about them but I learned.

Jeff Mao

I mean, one of the things I always think about in terms of your work is that it’s elevated the songs themselves to different places. It’s not always about a literal translation or treatment of a song. It’s just something where the imagination goes elsewhere. Was there something that in particular, was it those filmmakers and photographers? Was it somebody else that sort of like inspired you in that way? Because these are the great story-tellers and lyricists. You could take their stories and deliver them on the screen line by line or you could do something even more creative, which is what you were doing.

Hype Williams

I just think I was like any other kid in the hood. I was a sponge. You know what I mean? She gassed me up into thinking, like, you are this great – you’re art, and music, and fashion together as a young person. So she had me really thinking like, “Well, I’ll just take everything that I can and use it.” Luckily, for me, I wasn’t alone. Like I had friends who were all really in my mind, masters at what they do. I had my first cinematographer was Malik Sayeed, he’s a master. But we started together. So it’s that kind of thing. I just happened to have a great group. I couldn’t take credit by myself.

Jeff Mao

Who were some of the other people that were so important and have been so important to you?

Hype Williams

It’s endless. June Ambrose is another person who was like we started together.

[applause]

It’s endless. The names is just crazy, there’s too many people. But luckily, we all started together. We all started here. We built off of each other.

Jeff Mao

Was there a moment that was a turning point for you as far as just... I mean, obviously what you mentioned as far as the videos at a certain era were not presented the way you wanted to see them. But this is also a double standard as far as the industry and what’s available in terms of resources. What were you able to do to sort of stretch resources, to make something look better than what you had available to you perhaps like budget-wise or something like that?

Hype Williams

I think the right answer for that, it was change. I came about at a time of change. So all of that stuff that was happening was detrimental to the change that was about to come. It was old. No one saw hip-hop as valuable but us. So that era changed it all. We were the tool for that. It was just being a part of that change, knowing who everyone was. Puff knew who I was. So when he got his first record deal, he had no problem saying this kid is going to shoot everything. It’s probably very similar to what’s happening now. But it just so happened then, we changed the culture. Does that make sense?

Jeff Mao

Yeah.

Hype Williams

Yes.

Jeff Mao

That was nice.

Hype Williams

I hope I’m answering these questions.

Jeff Mao

Well, why don’t we take a look at something from your repertoire?

Hype Williams

No, anything but that.

Jeff Mao

Can we please? It would really... I think we’re sitting here in this theater. It’s just this great opportunity to see something special.

[applause]

So why don’t we take a look, 2Pac and Dr. Dre with Roger Troutman, and the video of course is “California Love” right up here?

(video: 2Pac feat. Dr. Dre – “California Love” / applause)

Jeff Mao

I know you say you never watch these ever.

Hype Williams

Well, thank you for being so kind. When I see this, it just reminds me of the good old days when Dre would sit and do a edit with me. You know what I mean? That was the level of artist he was. We did it together. All of us. All of these things – I just want to be clear – it was a collaboration. We all put our everything into it, Pac, Dre, every artist. That era, that’s what everyone was doing. I would love to be able to take all the credit, but it was like a family thing, so thank you again for that.

Jeff Mao

Obviously, Mad Max is the visual inspiration for this. But where does this come from as far as just like the song is “California Love”? If you’re going to follow the lyrics, literally you would be going through Compton, Watts, wherever, following the lyrics. But this is obviously taking it some place far different.

Hype Williams

Jada Pinkett [Smith].

[applause]

Jada was the one who wrote this treatment with Dre. They just called me. They were like, “Listen, there’s no one that we can have do this but you.” People probably don’t realize that Jada was a filmmaker like first. She really has a lot of things in her belt that people probably should investigate. This is one of them. She really felt like she wanted to take the song and bring it to life in a different way. Lucky for me, she said like, “Listen, at the time, you’re the only who can do this.”

[applause]

Jeff Mao

How sort of deep does the Mad Max thing go? I mean, if we think back to the circumstances around this record, it’s a very highly anticipated record. Pac had just come home. He’d newly signed to Death Row. He has this collaboration with Dr. Dre, so it’s like two of the biggest stars in music at the time. Mad Max films I guess were about, they’re about survival, they’re about retribution to some degree. Am I overthinking this? Was there anything involved in this? Is there any other level?

Hype Williams

I think you just got to go back to the time. This is like Death Row, at the height of Death Row. Dre just was like in a place where he wanted to make movies. This is my movie. Remember, the one before this was “Natural Born Killers,” which was Dre and Ice Cube and directed by F. Gary Gray as their video. So he wanted to do big things. This is just him saying, “I got a ton of money and I want to go crazy.”

Jeff Mao

Was this one of the bigger budget things that you had at that time, to that point? I’m just wondering like within the sort of trajectory of the business at the time, if this was a peak at that moment?

Hype Williams

No. This is ’96.

Jeff Mao

’96, yeah.

Hype Williams

It peaked in ’97. So everything was kind of going in a direction. Like everything else, we all just took it too far. Everybody had too much access to everything. That’s what happened. So basically, the end of the ’90s was that. It was just this crazy celebration of everything going right.

Jeff Mao

I mean, it’s a genuine celebration. Obviously, this is not the example that people would cite in terms of some of the stuff that you’ve done. They will point to another video, which we’ll look at in a little bit. But this celebration is also a celebration of like you said, things going right, things going right for young entrepreneurs in the business, who grew up in the culture like yourself. I mean, you can speak to this better than I can, but I feel like this is a point that sort of gets lost. People can look at the superficial aspects of these images on screen, But I feel like there is something genuinely celebratory about it. Do you feel that way?

Hype Williams

Well, I feel at that time, the music industry was being run by brains. Let me explain why I say that. There was a lot of very powerful, very important, very smart people in the music business at the head of it at every label. Those people understood what was happening and how to step back and support and allow it. So that’s why I say brains because it seems with the changes that’s happened in the music business that a lot of people who would be making those kinds of decisions now aren’t supporting the craft. I’ll use that word, craft. So anyway, so going back to the ’90s, that was a celebration, the fact that we had all the authority. There was no one limiting anybody. So Dre was at his height, Puff was at his height. Death Row, all these labels were like able to be successful in ways that haven’t happened again because there was no restraints.

Jeff Mao

But as a filmmaker, you’re on this production, it’s chaotic, it’s unmanageable, 2Pac’s driving off into the desert. You get this footage at the end of the shoot. You have this structure because it’s linked to a song. But what are you thinking? Are you thinking, “Oh, my God, what am I going to do with this?” What are you thinking?

Hype Williams

Again, I’m just being honest. The reality is – I don’t want this to sound egotistical. I’m just trying to be honest. The reality is I’m lucky I’m me because whatever I got is the minimum that anyone would be able to get. Luckily, because I loved it so much, I was able to get that. So if that’s considered great, I’m lucky because I loved it enough to do everything I had to do to make it great. Because it wasn’t going to be great.

[laughter]

Jeff Mao

Well, I think you made your luck, your own luck. I’d like first to look at another video, just to make you squirm a little bit more. Could we look at take a look at Mase – “Feel So Good”?

(video: Mase – “Feel So Good” / applause)

Jeff Mao

OK. So there are shiny suit moments and there are shiny suit moments. So is this the consummate shiny suit moment?

Hype Williams

Well, it is Vegas, so that was the idea. I’m going to make everything shiny. That’s what it is. That video is styled by June Ambrose.

[applause]

So again, I’m lucky to have someone, so blessed to have done that with me.

Jeff Mao

This is from Mase’s Harlem World album. Obviously, Harlem World is what he represents. By the same token, how would you describe what that sensibility is, because even though this is shot in Las Vegas, to me, it carries that spirit as well. Would you say that’s the case or am I totally off base here?

Hype Williams

You’re totally off base.

[laughter]

I mean that in a good way. All these things are really just visual interpretations of the music.

Jeff Mao

Yes.

Hype Williams

That’s my job. So that was really just how I felt about the song. Puff sends it, I listen to it. It’s big, like Vegas to me. I feel like... I’m putting feelings into it because that’s what that is. So that’s the reasoning for it. There’s no design to it. It was all emotion at that time. Then luckily, luckily, these guys all went with my emotions. You know? That’s the only way I could describe it. I lead everybody in these directions and they all went.

Jeff Mao

Now, when you get a piece of music and you listen to it, and you’re treating the music, what do you think in terms of that process, in terms of prioritizing what your emotions are? Is it the first emotion that you found to be the truest emotion or is it something that you actually take some time to work through?

Hype Williams

Well, at the time, again, this is when I was younger, I was just pure artist. I went with the first thing every time. Every one of these things is probably the first thing that came to my mind, with the exception of “California Love.” That’s probably the only treatment that I didn’t write in my career. But yeah, it was the first thing comes to mind.

Jeff Mao

When you say for this era, this moment, but is it not the same for you right now in terms of your process of going through it?

Hype Williams

Well, I’m not the same person. I think differently than I did then. Then, again, there was no... How do I describe it to you? There’s no internet, really. So I was isolated in a way that you guys aren’t, you know what I’m saying? That wasn’t there. It came about differently. There’s no iPhone. Does that make sense to you? Imagine a world with no iPhone. [laughs] That’s what it was. We were out there winging it. Everybody was out there. These aren’t shot on digital, these are film cameras. There was no such thing as digital filmmaking. So every shot was loaded into a magazine, rolls of film. There’s warehouses of these things, and I stress this to a lot of these record labels – and I’m going off subject – but these warehouses of all of this stuff that’s reels and reels of stuff that no one’s even seen that wasn’t used.

Jeff Mao

Yeah.

Hype Williams

History. I mean, like years of it that this the digital world doesn’t reflect, that that reflects. Somebody is going to have to go back and archive it probably one of these days.

Jeff Mao

What’s the timetable, like the turnaround process? I guess just even like because this is such a different experience for people perhaps now to relate to, how many days is a shoot like this? How long is it from conception to completion?

Hype Williams

This, you’re saying?

Jeff Mao

Yeah, something like this, yeah.

Hype Williams

I’d have to explain. It wasn’t done that way. These were wars, small wars. The percentage of time planning and doing production, and doing physical pre-production like the normal is only a small percentage of what goes into that, where there’s days of down arguing, like let’s have full-on wars about what we don’t like is happening. These videos – all of those ingredients to what you see, the end result. Like when I sit cast with Dre in that video, it couldn’t have been good if it didn’t have that ingredient, I think. All of these were like that. It was war.

Jeff Mao

Was there a specific battle or war that you recall with this?

Hype Williams

Yeah.

Jeff Mao

OK. What was that?

Hype Williams

Well, I’m not at liberty to say.

[laughter]

But it’s like a part of what made all of Puff’s videos great, I think. The fact that he included me and I had a mind of my own. Those collaborations are the greatest ever. When [Puff and I] talk, it’s the most respect I think I get from anyone in the business.

Jeff Mao

I mean, you still work together and have worked together now. So that’s testament to the relationship that you have.

Hype Williams

We’ve also agreed not to do it anymore and to stay friends.

[laughter]

Jeff Mao

When you said it was a war, I’m sort of like thinking of it just in terms of the process of actually just filmmaking as a process. Just in terms of like you have an army of people. You have your soldiers and your lieutenants, and you go up the ranks.

Hype Williams

That’s not the battle. You’re thinking wrong. That’s wrong thinking. The battles are mental, mentalities. You’re dealing with egos inflated at the highest level when rap was changing the world. Hip-hop changed the world because of it.

[applause]

So the kinds of conversations that were being discussed through were insane. I mean, I watch movies like Heart of Darkness. Anybody seen that? Right. That’s about the making of Apocalypse Now. I could relate because we had our own moments like that throughout the culture when no one got along. Do they know what you’re going to play?

Jeff Mao

They don’t.

Hype Williams

Oh, I was about to mess something up.

Jeff Mao

You’re going to spoil it?

Hype Williams

Sorry. But there’s one that’s a real, exactly what I’m talking about. If he plays it, I can explain further. But anyway, most times the war was mental because everyone wanted to resist what we were doing until afterwards. I don’t know. I don’t know if you’re going to play “Big Pimpin’.” I don’t know if that’s on the list, but that’s one of those moments where none of those guys saw the end result coming. They just saw it as like, “He’s out here fucking up our money.” We know we’re out here in the middle of Trinidad. This is the conversation, like what the fuck is going on? Those words.

Jeff Mao

Right.

Hype Williams

Once you get past that... Again, I’m just being honest, I say I’m lucky to be me is because I had to endure all of my friends not believing in what I was really trying to give. I wanted to give so much. A lot of times, it was like that. I had to just be Jesus and get whipped.

[laughter]

But now, like when we talk about it, we’re all happy obviously because we’re a part of something. We’re blessed. Again, I just have to take a moment to thank everyone here for recognizing the blessings.

[applause]

Jeff Mao

Well, whether you realize it or not, you gave us a perfect transition into the next video, which is not “Big Pimpin’” but is Nas – “Hate Me Now.”

(video: Nas – “Hate Me Now” / applause)

Jeff Mao

I mean we’re talking – just what we see just now – multiple locations, bi-coastal. Obviously, you’ve done hundreds of extras before, but the pyro, the white tigers, the furs...

Hype Williams

Bulletproof vest that all the crew had to wear so we don’t get shot to death during filming certain scenes in that video, things like that. You know what I mean? It’s a different time.

Jeff Mao

What was the–

Hype Williams

Would you like to see?

Jeff Mao

How do you get the two white tigers onto a set and have everybody feel comfortable with that?

Hype Williams

With great difficulty.

[laughter]

Jeff Mao

Fair enough. I mean, I also feel like this is after some of the signature visual cues that you became famous for: the fisheye lens, the letter box, just all of these different techniques, the low angle. Was this in some ways just a reaction to people biting off of all of those techniques as well or was this purely inspired by the song itself?

Hype Williams

I lost the question.

Jeff Mao

Well, everybody imitating your style at a certain point making videos. This goes somewhere else beyond that other people could not do, even in this version. So I’m just wondering if this was a conscious attempt also to leave people in the dust. Do you think, ‘Well, you cannot do this. You can bite the fisheye lens, you can do all of these other things, but you cannot do this.’

Hype Williams

Well, I’m telling you, I didn’t think like that. None of those ideas were a part of my process. Whatever people were doing was people, it wasn’t me. I never looked at anyone biting anything. I just looked at it as compliments, like everyone kept saying that was happening. I felt like that was the greatest compliment someone could give me. So anyone would care enough to imitate it, so it was just the music. It was only what am I doing with this music. It wasn’t anything past that.

Jeff Mao

I mean, that’s such a great pure way though of approaching it. I think that speaks to why these videos are making everybody so happy watching them now, even though they’re unfortunately making you very uncomfortable.

Hype Williams

I haven’t seen that in, I can’t even tell you how long, years and years. So thank you actually for letting me watch it.

Jeff Mao

Just riffing off of this being in your own mind space as far as what you were doing in comparison to the noise outside, when the ‘97 circa thing became a subject for parody in terms of just like the shiny suits or whatever, did that ... Were you conscious of that? Did that matter? Did you take it as more satire is a compliment as well?

Hype Williams

Well, I kind of looked at it like I left an imprint. People associate me with the entire ’90s. That to me, again, I just count blessings. I felt like, ‘Wow, if this can make anybody happy in any way, I did a good thing.’

Jeff Mao

We’re going to look at one more video from the ’90s. But this video could have come out today or any time in the future. It’s Missy Elliott. The track is entitled, “She’s a Bitch.”

(video: Missy Elliott – “She’s a Bitch” / applause)

Jeff Mao

Now, you mentioned the director, Jean-Paul Goude, is that? I don’t know if I’m pronouncing it right.

Hype Williams

Jean-Paul Goude.

Jeff Mao

Jean-Paul Goude, excuse me. Now, can you explain a little bit about your just initial inspiration for how you wanted to treat this music of Missy Elliott? I guess it would probably precede this, see, the first video you guys did together, “The Rain.” Just when you mentioned his name, I just sort of thought maybe it might be a good thing to touch on.

Hype Williams

Well, the young lady that I told you about, her name was Judy Troilo. She used to work for Island Records. When she introduced me to Michel, Jean-Paul Goude, and Jean-Baptiste Mondino, who was a very important person also, I immediately was familiar with all of their stuff because I grew up on like soul music that I was talking about. Then the soul music rolled itself into other forms of music and Island was the home place of Grace Jones, the same record label.

It’s interesting story about that too actually. Island Records, first artist that they signed was Bob Marley. The second artist I think as a group, that got signed was U2. Then came from Grace Jones. So it just so happened that Jean-Paul Goude was the Hype Williams for Grace Jones at the time. I was already familiar with the aesthetic. I just thought Missy had the same thing when I met her. Again, I’m telling you guys all this old stuff, but I’ll just say it because we’re here. Missy was part of a group called Sista. That group was signed to Electra Records and produced by DeVante Swing. Do you guys know that name?

[applause]

Hype Williams

OK. Basically, first Jodeci video I shot was called “Feenin.” DeVante was like, “Man, listen, I got these kids. I need my kids to be around you and around us so we can learn. I’ll let them do anything.” He said, “They can just do craft services,” if you guys know what craft services is, it’s the food. So kids showed up. The kids who did the craft services on the Jodeci “Feenin video” was Timbaland, Ginuwine, and Missy Elliott, so that’s how I met her, before anything. So I don’t even know what year that was. That may be like ’93. I don’t even know.

But anyway, when she surfaced past Sista as a solo artist, she was already catching so much heat. I just saw her differently. That’s all that is. It’s just like me saying, “Wow. Let’s do this.” Everyone else said, “No, you’re crazy,” but let it happen anyway, those brains I was telling you about. The big brain at Electra was Sylvia Rhone.

[applause]

She said, “Hype, you’re crazy, but I’m going to let you do it.” That’s how we did “The Rain.”

Jeff Mao

That eventually to this with her second record, her second album. Was this just another case of you hear the music and this is what you think of, or was this a treatment that was brought to you?

Hype Williams

Well, “The Rain” video was ’98. So we’re past all of that now. Now, we’re into decadence in the music business, too much money, nobody gives a shit. This was a part of that thinking. She was such a powerful artist when her second album came, that we were able to do this video. That’s a gigantic, hydraulic “M” coming out of water. I don’t know. Most music videos wouldn’t be able to do something like that nowadays. Like it may have been a million dollars just for that, I think, back then.

Jeff Mao

When this is all climbing and peaking, are you thinking, ‘This is it, this is the new normal?’ We’re just going to keep doing this forever because the music industry will be giving us these kinds of budgets to do this or are you thinking, ‘Let’s do this while we can because who knows how long it’s going to last’?

Hype Williams

Well, I was raging, and that’s how I felt. But someone was very smart. There was another brain, I have to tell you. There’s going to be a whole history of this music business thing. They’re going to talk about these brains, Jimmy Iovine is another one. He’s one of the brains. One brain out of many pulled my coat tails, said, “Hype, This is coming to an end.” This is at the height of it. His name was Lyor Cohen. I don’t know if you guys know that name. He said, “Hype, trust me. This is all going to come to a crashing end.” He didn’t say how. He maybe didn’t even know how, but he was insightful enough to see we were going too far with everything. He was right.

Jeff Mao

Yeah, but thank goodness you went “too far” because we wouldn’t have this.

Hype Williams

Well –

Jeff Mao

I mean, this is a realization of just pure imagination.

Hype Williams

And the ability, like I had these great people who allowed it. Sylvia allowed it, Lyor allowed it, Jimmy allowed it so many times when as business people, they probably normally wouldn’t but they supported the art form that we were creating. That’s what this is. This is why it’s still around. Puff alone, he knows that this is a part of a building block of everything that he has.

Jeff Mao

I know artists like Missy Elliott are unique and special, obviously. But in terms of just the not only their creativity but their willingness to go with the full distance to actually physically put up with what is required to do something like this, which is super intense.

Hype Williams

I feel no different than any movie star that has a big role to play in a big science fiction movie, what’s asked of the star. At this point, we were proving that they were more than the music, that they were bigger than rappers. That’s what this was about. Now, looking back again, I learned all of this stuff. We didn’t know what we were doing going forward, but now that we can look back at it, we really were taking it past where everyone thought it could go. At one point, rap music was a joke. It’s like everybody thought it was nothing. You have to really understand that. All these people, all these great artists, we proved them wrong. We proved everybody wrong.

[applause]

Jeff Mao

Who is your favorite person to work with?

Hype Williams

My favorite person to work with artistically, in case anybody cared, is Beyoncé.

[applause]

I’ll explain to you why. The reason I say Beyoncé, obviously, because of who she is, but more so, she just works harder than me. At the time, I didn’t understand that. I’d never met a artist that would run circles around me in terms of her work ethic. I’m used to dealing with guys who I have to force to do stuff. She was the opposite. She was a young, just driven is not even the word. So she’s my favorite because she inspires me that way.

Jeff Mao

Let’s take a look at Beyoncé – “Drunk in Love.” Why don’t we do that?

(video: Beyoncé – “Drunk in Love” / applause)

Jeff Mao

Just for future reference, how difficult is it to coordinate like a night beach shoot with like the two most famous people in the world who are also intensely private?

Hype Williams

Well, I’m going to tell you guys a fun fact. From start to finish, first shot to calling wrap, we shot this entire video in three hours.

[applause]

So it’s again, a testament to the kind of artist she is. The reason why I was going into that and I had no idea that he was going to play that, actually. But she just has a tremendous work ethic.

Jeff Mao

When you have this opportunity – and it’s not an opportunity that falls in your lap because you obviously have a relationship that extends back years with these guys – how are you able to capture something that feels very intimate and very honest? You have an existing relationship with these guys. But I’m just wondering for somebody who is trying to gain trust with a performer, make a comfortable situation, what is the key to that?

Hype Williams

You can’t get it. I’m telling you, whatever happens with me, and I studied this and I really tried to figure it out, with these people, all these great people, it’s not my ability or my talent or any of those things that I would love to say that I have. It’s somehow they give me more than they give everybody else. Somehow, that’s just some blessing that I got where if I’m working with a great artist, somehow they give me more than they would normally give to someone who is shooting something. That’s what this all is. I believe that’s just the blessing I was given, that I’m able to get more out of the greatest. It doesn’t matter who it is. My whole life, it’s been like that, in terms of what I’ve been doing anyway. So that’s the secret.

Jeff Mao

Well, I mean, I think that you’re highly self-critical and humble about these things.

Hype Williams

I’m just speaking my truth. That’s what everybody is saying on the Internet. I’m just telling you how it is. That’s what they call it now, my truth. But I studied it. That’s what I believe it to be.

Jeff Mao

Well, isn’t it also that they see you giving out and putting your heart into it?

Hype Williams

I mean, you’re going to have to ask them, I don’t know. But, again, it happens all the time. If I got 2Pac, I get him, I get that. He’s shot tons of videos that aren’t these levels of performances. It’s a performance thing. I guess it’s the way we interact. It’s not a relationship, it’s something else. I’ve always had it with any artist, anybody who’s in front of the camera, basically. It doesn’t matter if it’s a model or whoever, it’s just something that they do.

Jeff Mao

We’re going to open this up to a couple of questions from the audience in just a moment.

Hype Williams

Please somebody help me, I need help.

Jeff Mao

In just a moment. But I also wanted to ask you, we’re in an era where artists, I mean, everybody has so much direct control over their own image and what they want to show the world, does that make a collaboration easier or more difficult for you?

Hype Williams

Well, it doesn’t matter because at the end of the day, we’re doing something great. It doesn’t matter how you get there, I don’t care how hard it is or easy it is, that’s how I look at things by the way. As long we’re doing it and we both can sit back and be proud of it, I think it’s okay.

Jeff Mao

How do you feel about just the art form of the music video? Do you feel that it’s something that can return? Do you feel good about it now? Do you feel like it’s something that needs to return to a more serious level of craft? Is there something that’s aesthetically pleasing to you about things being very do-it-yourself? How do you feel about that at this point?

Hype Williams

Well, how I feel about it is in direct relation to the digital camera, digital filmmaking. It’s allowed for anyone to be able to pick up a camera and immediately shoot something great, color it how they would like, edit it, and put it into the world. This is the time period of that. It didn’t exist when we were younger. We didn’t have an outlet. So I think the time that we’re in, the digital filmmaking age is that great moment wherein anyone who has any ability can share it, it doesn’t matter what level you’re at. It’s all there to be seen by the world. It’s like everybody gets to hang their paintings in the world museum kind of thing. That’s the greatness I think of where we’re headed. So I just see this opportunity.

Jeff Mao

Yeah. As someone who has taken I mean, taken individual artists and placed them in environments that none of us would have imagined just by virtue of using your imagination and their imagination, what do you look to next? Where are the next pieces of inspiration, seeing as you have this, you’ve done so much already?

Hype Williams

Well, it has to go further. There’s always a new place to take it. It’s a challenge for all of us really, but I also challenge myself with that. Because now, we’re in a digital filmmaking age when things that took us weeks to prepare for, now, you can shoot instantly. So I think that’s really where you’re going to see if I have ability or if I don’t in the next things that we’re able to do. So it’s a big reason why I haven’t done another film right away. This year’s going to be the 20th anniversary of Belly movie.

[applause]

I just wanted to be able to give something more. So, hopefully, the next things that you’ll see from me will be able to further the whole thing. Does that make sense?

Jeff Mao

Let’s take a couple of questions from the audience. I do believe we have a microphone or two that is circulating the room. So if we can bring the house lights up.

Audience Member

Hey, what’s up. Peace. My name is Anthony Prince, pleasure to be here.

Jeff Mao

Anthony, speak into the microphone please, thank you.

Audience Member

Hey, what’s up. My name is Anthony Prince. I just want to know who is your favorite DP and how was the process working with him?

Hype Williams

Well, I don’t believe I’ve gotten the opportunity to work with my favorite DP yet.

Audience Member

Who is he? Or she? Sorry.

Hype Williams

It’s not a she. It could be, but it’s not a she. I just feel that I don’t want to say, I don’t know, it’s a weird thing. But it’s someone who is nicknamed as Chivo. We’ve know him for a long time. He’s been around for a long time. I don’t know if anybody knows who that is. But we’re just friends. Hopefully, one day, we’ll get to do a movie together. That’s the only thing I can say.

Audience Member

Cool. Thanks.

Jeff Mao

We have another question? Yep.

Audience Member

Yes. Is it? OK, it’s on. Yeah, I would like to thank Hype Williams and Red Bull for this presentation.

[applause]

You previously built on the fisheye lens and your repertoire. Is there anything you actually patented to protect your style?

Hype Williams

No, because I believe in giving. So I’m like the Giving Tree, so it’s for everybody. Whatever I’m able to accomplish is yours.

[applause]

Audience Member

Hey, how you doing, Hype? It’s a pleasure to meet you. My name is David McDuffy. Right here.

Hype Williams

Oh, I see. Alright.

Audience Member

Yeah. So Belly is one of my favorite movies. Seeing that lighting and that opening scene is like one of the most phenomenal shots every.

Hype Williams

Thank you. Thank you for saying that.

[applause]

Audience Member

Yeah, all day. All day. It’s now 100, too, from the heart. So when you were speaking about what you thought was whack about all the video is lighting because it was the first thing that you kind of mentioned. Could you talk about the importance of somebody like Christian Epps who might not get that type of notoriety on the field? I mean, it’s usually director, cameraman, but we forget about the person doing the lighting. So can you speak to that? Can you also talk about your philosophy on lighting and color? Because not only do you light, but there’s a certain tint of color that you use to your work as well. Could you speak on that?

Hype Williams

Sure. What’s your name again, sir?

Audience Member

David McDuffy.

Hype Williams

David. Well, I’m very old. You threw a name out, Christian Epps. I don’t even know how you know that name. I don’t know if you studied it or if you worked with him. Christian Epps is one of the original people who taught me how to think like this. He’s part of our filmmaking history, but he was also one of those guys I told you about that I used to ask a bunch of questions and drive crazy when I was younger. Through that, he then became a part of my crew and later on, my gaffer for many years, and really was an instrument though on helping me do a lot of the things that you see up there. So speaking to him personally, he’s also one of the great teachers of the DP who shot the Belly movie, who was Malik Sayeed.

We just kind of all grew together as one group. I don’t know ... If you know any of this stuff, I mean, I don’t know if you’re answering stuff. You’re probably reading those answers too because I even know how he knows Christian’s name. But we all pretty much gave each other like film school. Does that make sense?

Audience Member

Yeah.

Hype Williams

The reason I speak about lighting is it was the first thing I learned as a filmmaker because it helped me to understand how I wanted to express myself, like how things are lit, like when you walk into a room, whatever is going on in the room, the lighting speaks to me first. I use that kind of language, “Speaks to me” because it is what it is. Out of everything, that’s what I see first. So that’s what I worked on first. The more I worked on it, the more I realized I could control everything about what I was doing with color and lighting, which that’s basically if you watch all of these older how to... Do it yourself kind of film institution. Like the kind of tapes that I used to watch where the greats would teach you. They’d teach you lighting first. It’s photography if there’s a camera involved.

Then speaking to the color, I think it just comes natural if you’re artistic. I think, so everybody has that, like if you’re an artist out there, if everybody’s an artist, you feel a certain way about the colors you use. That’s why you pick them, whether you’re drawing or a painting, it’s the same thing with lighting. Does any of that make sense that I just said?

Audience Member

Yeah.

Hype Williams

OK. I had to check.

Audience Member

Can you speak to the blue hue on black skin?

[applause]

This is something that other filmmakers and cinematographers have kind of used, Moonlight would be a good example of that. Can you speak to what it is about the blue and also maybe like the sheen and shine that you incorporate, too?

Hype Williams

The last part, what did you say?

Audience Member

Along with that blue hue, a lot of times, there’s like a glisten or a shine that accompanies the skin in particular.

Hype Williams

Right. Well, again, it’s just how I view black people. We have this amazing skin in all shades and colors.

[applause]

So that’s just kind of like natural to me. When I watch other people who don’t think like that or somehow wind up making black people look gray or some weird shit, that’s just them, too. Maybe they wanted them to look bad, I don’t know. It’s anything. It’s not, I want to say, it’s not just black skin. I lean towards that because I see things that way. But it’s anything. Whatever is in front of the camera, we objectify it. We just use our sensibilities.

When I say, “Our” I mean the people like me that I know of to paint the picture. That’s all that is. For using lighting on skin and it’s a black woman in front of the camera, and she has amazing skin, why wouldn’t we want to use that and make it look like what it feels like to us? So all of that kind of stuff, I promise you, it’s organic. It’s not thought out. Let’s look at this, and let’s see if it works. Do I love it or I hate it? Simple stuff. Does that make any sense to anybody?

Audience Member

Yes. Thank you, bro.

Jeff Mao

I just want to just interject real quick because David mentioned Belly. This being the 20-year anniversary of its release in November, what do you feel that the legacy of this film is because every piece of press that you go back to, obviously, documents all of the issues that you encountered. Has time given you a different perspective on that experience?

Hype Williams

Well, I think mostly what I get out of the movie is how everyone else feels about it. I never thought – because for me, it was a disaster – we’d still be talking about it right now first of all. So the fact that as many young people or older, everybody, that it’s out there, has seen it. And continues to praise the film, again, I have to view that as a blessing somehow. I can’t look at it any other way because just so many people were affected by and continued to be affected by it. Taral Hicks, who played Kisha in the movie, she’s still affected by it.

[applause]

There’s more Kisha stuff on the Internet right now than anything. Again, it’s just like a magic thing that happened. I can’t even explain it. If I try to explain it, it would be because I had all these great people, June Ambrose was our costume designer. Malik Sayeed was the DP. I mean, it’s endless, like the crew people, everybody gave their all. That’s the ingredients to Belly.

Jeff Mao

I think we have time for just a couple of more.

Audience Member

Hi, nice to meet you. When I get to hear creative successful people share their experiences, I often wonder what challenges they had. So one question that came to mind is you know, there’s writer’s block or I guess like a creative block, did you ever experience that when you had artists reach out to you with their songs? If you did, how did you break through that? I was just curious. I mean, you have a lot of videos so maybe you never experienced creative block. (laughs)

Hype Williams

I can’t recall those kind of challenges in relation to the music stuff because it was always like a love. Let me explain. If I didn’t love it, I wouldn’t do the project. So if I didn’t immediately feel somehow connected to the people or the opportunity – if for a moment, I had to think like that, like I’m stuck, it wasn’t for me. Maybe that was a mistake but I have many times when I regret it, like the very first Alicia Keys’ song, “Falling.” They really wanted me to be a part of it. I loved that, but I wasn’t able to see it the way Chris Robinson saw it, which he did a great job with the first video. So traditionally, that’s basically how I dealt with anything like writer’s block. If it didn’t speak to me, I keep using speak to me because that’s how I feel. If it didn’t speak back to me like you should do this, then I didn’t do it.

Jeff Mao

Well, I would go so far as to say your work is political in the respect that you’ve created opportunities where there were not before. You’ve created imagery where it was not before, which is invaluable. I can’t thank you enough. We cannot thank you enough for your work and for being here tonight.

[applause]

One more time, please say thanks to Mr. Hype Williams.

Hype Williams

Thank you.

[applause]