Keiji Haino

Emma Warren

There is no way at all we’d be able to cover everything that Haino-san has done since starting to make music in the 1970s, but we will try and cover some recent music and some key points from this most influential artist. Also, there’s going to be simultaneous translation, so there may be a few pauses when we’re speaking, that’s just so we can catch up with the conversation between us. So first please, a very big welcome, Keiji Haino, Haino-san.

[Keiji Haino performs on the polygonola. Applause]

So, Haino-san, I understand you wanted to play this for us because of your ideas about new music, and new music not just being electronic or computer-based.

Keiji Haino

Yes, exactly. I played this for you today because what you believe to be electronics is not precise. You cannot listen to all the elements of electronics. To be able to listen to them all, you have to train your ears. We have to know where overtones go, or where sound wants to travel to. What I mean by that is sound would never want to sit still, in my own idea. I moved my hands like this [waves hand over instrument] because I feel sound wants to move to various directions freely. I should not dominate the natural sound if possible.

Emma Warren

That’s an interesting idea of not wishing to control sound, when often for musicians the feeling is that you “make” the music. Can you explain a bit more about what you mean when you talk about not trying to dominate the sound, or not trying to control the sound?

Keiji Haino

[To the simultaneous translator] Your voice is interrupted. I think the microphone of the translator is not working properly. [To the simultaneous translator] I can hear now, but sometimes it is interrupted. It is fine now. Sound is made when it is emitted in the air. If you think you can hear it on computers, you are just brainwashed to believe so. Sound needs to be exposed to the air, to be experienced or to be embodied. Otherwise you can’t find out where sound itself wants to travel to. I believe each sound has its own will. And I only want to help it just a little bit. This is why I play like this.

Emma Warren

That is a very interesting idea, particularly for musicians who are working often within a laptop or within electronics – the idea that music needs air. Is that a simple case of the way that sound vibrates in air, or is it something deeper than that?

Keiji Haino

Indeed. This instrument [gestures to the polygonola] itself is very unique. Even if I mute it to a certain extent, the sound differs... Well, it is hard to explain. When I hit a tone, or a disc, and depending on where you hit, “Baion” – which is translated to overtones or maybe harmonics – would sound differently with this instrument. It creates different overtones. So even if I mute one tone, only one overtone is muted. But you can’t mute the rest of other overtones it creates. So when the two or three overtones are mixed, they swell, so to speak.

Emma Warren

Ok. I think this is an area which we could almost spend one hour talking about. I wonder, though, if we could talk about you as a very diverse musician. I understand you play around 80 instruments. Could you give us a flavour of some of those?

Keiji Haino

One is guitar. So-called guitars and some string instruments like lute and oud. Of the lutes, I play Renaissance lute and Baroque lute and orpharion. There are just too many to pick up... If you had told me a week ago, I could have brought the list. It is hard to pick them up without preparation. Hurdy-gurdy, cymbal. There are several types of cymbals. For example, waterphone, a kind of experimental musical instrument. A special metal made by NASA is used to make energy chimes. Now I remember how things are put in my room. Next to it, there is chakhe from Thailand. It is similar to Japanese koto. I have already picked up ten or so. Um... electric tambour, Shruti box. I have both electric and acoustic. And many more.

If I can count flutes and pipes too, I have about 20 of them. For instance, launeddas from Sardinia, Italy. I put three reed pipes in my mouth to play them at the same time. The sound is a bit similar to a bagpipe. Then Slovakian... should I go on? Slovakian fujara, maybe the longest flute in the world. It is about 1.8 meters. Should I go further?

Emma Warren

I think that gives us a nice idea of the range of instruments you play. I wonder though, could you tell us about your approach? Do you prefer to learn how to play something properly, or do you prefer to take an instrument and see what you can do with it?

Keiji Haino

Learning is not an option. It will never be. How I meet instruments is I find musical instrument stores when I travel around. I wonder how I play the instruments in the window. Then I approach the shops and ask the instruments, “Are you gonna come to my home?” If they say yes, I buy them. My guarantee is all gone like this.

Emma Warren

So, is there anything that connects the kind of instruments that ask you to take them home?

Keiji Haino

No, I simply find such instruments. So sometimes I struggle with such instruments to find out how to play them for a while. By blowing, drumming, or playing I gradually hear their sound. I really enjoy such moments.

Emma Warren

Thinking about this creatively, what does that give you, this way of talking to your instruments and getting to know them before you are told who they are?

Keiji Haino

I just want to enjoy that. If I try to learn how to play instruments, I cannot fully express what the instruments want me to do and maximize their possibilities. For instance, how I played this instrument, like this [waves hand gently over the discs]. The way I play could be how they originally wanted us to play. But when it is played by learned players, for example someone who plays the vibes would just hit it like this [taps his hand over the discs one by one]. They play this just to sound musical scales, and say rhythm can also make melody. They would treat this instrument like that. I want to maximize this instrument’s original sound. In other words, there is no wrong tone to be played. If you go to a drum lesson, for example, then you would be taught to hit a very precise spot to get the very best of it. “Everything else is a wrong tone.” I hate being taught like that. I believe that a professional should be able to incorporate even bad hit sounds. If you can pick those bad hit sounds and let them be a part of your music, I think instruments themselves will be happy.

Emma Warren

What you’re saying is very interesting, because what you’re saying is that we should get to know an instrument in terms of what it really is, its real potential, rather than what we’re told it is. A flute could be a drum, for example.

Keiji Haino

Do you mean the instrument itself? In most languages, they are called instruments, namely tools, as we use them to do something. But if players regard instruments as a part of ourselves, they would sound the way even the instruments never expected.

Emma Warren

Which leads us into, if we flip that idea – you’re talking about your effect on the sound, I wonder if we could talk for a minute about the effect of the sound on you. Some of you will have seen Haino-san last week playing at the Wails to Whispers event, we saw you playing some very extreme and loud music, and then we saw you come back on stage and play the hurdy-gurdy for 30 minutes in a very calm and meditative way. What effect does that transition between sounds have on you as a performer, as a person?

Keiji Haino

To me, both loud sound and quiet sound always exist within myself. The band name Fushitsusha accidentally appeared on the flyer at that event but... I dared to make even louder, harder and faster music. After making the loud sounds, I made quiet sounds with the hurdy-gurdy. But to me these different sides are just a strong point and a weak point in the dynamic range. Therefore what I need for music, for me, is every aspect of the dynamic range. So that was just an example.

Emma Warren

Is it difficult though, to move from something so intense and loud to something so small and quiet?

Keiji Haino

Not at all. I enjoy it. If I explain this in other words, having listeners gives me strength, in a sense. It gives me strength in a positive way. It does not matter whether the sound is loud or quiet. Sometimes PA system or amplifiers can change from a loud sound to a quiet sound. But both quiet and loud sounds are always together in my case. What I do in Fushitsusha, especially in recent works, is play loud music and quiet music by turns. There are all sorts of dynamic ranges, as I said. But we are trying to show the paradox at the same time. So, on that day, you listened to them separately.

Emma Warren

So really you’re saying that that diversity of large sounds and small sounds has always been within you.

Keiji Haino

Yes. It is a kind of a repetition, but strength is simple, whether there is strength or not. Then it will be up to listeners. It depends on the listener’s situation, environment and mental state. When you listen to music through headphones, you may feel loud. But when you remove it and put it on a table, the sound will be so quiet that you can barely hear. Therefore it depends on how listeners would catch or accept the sound after all. Whether it is loud or quiet... I mean, loud and quiet have such a relationship. That is my idea.

Emma Warren

The next thing I would like to ask you about, I know you’re not too keen on the word improvisation.

Keiji Haino

Improvisation, right?

Emma Warren

I know you’re not keen on that word, because I understand that you feel that word is exclusive somehow. It tells some people that it’s not for them. But I wondered if you can clarify, is the music you play always invented on the spot, is it always new? People might use the word improvisation as shorthand to ask that question – “Is your music always improvised?” - but I use that word knowing that you are not keen on it.

Keiji Haino

When I played at SuperDeluxe, I had an interview. I also told the interviewer this. When the word “improvise” was imported in Japan, it was misunderstood for some reason. Maybe that happened because of the impression of the word, or how cool it sounded at that time. It fell into something fashionable for eggheads. From two or three years ago, I started using my own word for that. I translated improvise to “nazoranai”, meaning “not repeating.” I defined the word so. When I thought about how the word originated, and tried understanding the true nature, I concluded that it is an action by someone who loves music too much.

So when non-music lovers use the word “improvisation,” musicians in other genres would feel the same as I feel. I have been serious about the word. Starting about 20 years ago, I quit interviews, whenever the interviewers used the words “noise,” “improvise” or “avant-garde.” Because they misunderstand the definition. So now you know how I feel about the word improvise. I deal with the word that seriously.

Emma Warren

The word you prefer, is it nazoranai? Which when you translate it is “not repeated” – so the thing you’re trying to do is not repeat yourself. This is also the name of the band you have with Stephen O’Malley. So can we then talk about this idea of not repeating yourself – is it true to say that your music is always not repeating?

Keiji Haino

Of course, yes.

Emma Warren

So this idea of not repeating yourself, why is that so important?

Keiji Haino

I want to live each and every moment at its best and to the fullest. And I think that to regret is to repeat. When we literally get positive, we live every moment seriously, very acceleratedly, concentratedly and relaxedly. So if we repeat, that is just... We can get faster forever. Let me restate. That is stopping the coolest part of humans by ourselves, where we can get faster forever. Excuse me.

Emma Warren

So then the point of not repeating, is not to fall into the trap of doing something “cool,” is that what you mean?

Keiji Haino

“Fall into a trap”? I never use such a word.

Emma Warren

Yes, does not repeating your music stop you from falling into a trap of making more mediocre music?

Keiji Haino

Yes, that is correct. Excuse me, but let me ask the audience. Are you having fun? Because my personal story could be boring. Are you okay with it? [The audience says yes] Let me drink water. Thank you.

Emma Warren

Well, we’ve just been talking about the band with Stephen O’Malley, would this be a good point to have a look at a piece of video of you performing?

Keiji Haino

It is a good idea to take a break.

Emma Warren

Okay, that sounds like a good idea.

(music: Nazoranai – Live at SuperDeluxe, March 03, 2014)

I wanted to ask you, with this attitude we’ve been talking about, how you bring this to your DJ sets? You’ve been playing, DJing and making mixes, for the last few years now. Could you describe how you operate when you’re DJing?

Keiji Haino

You may laugh, but everything I do would automatically become my style. There aren’t any wrong notes struck. It’s up to you. Music is an illusion. When I DJ, I close my eyes for almost the entire time and pick a CD or CD-R, let’s say, and then put that in to play. Then I pick another one. I usually use four CDJs. But I’m a little different from others. I use two rhythm machines. We call music with no beat “drone music.” But it also repeats sounds at least once throughout the 78 minutes. So I beat out a rhythm, or I connect some sound sources.

Emma Warren

So four CDJs, two drum machines, and selecting the CDs almost randomly?

Keiji Haino

Almost all. Sometimes I feel like, “I blew it.” But I don’t want to call it an accident. I want to call it a new music. I believe it as a challenge to overcome.

Emma Warren

I guess mistakes are the birth of many good ideas, right?

Keiji Haino

That’s right.

Emma Warren

So where do you get your music from, the music that you’re selecting when you’re in the playing when you’re in this creative process of DJing – where do you get this from, where do you buy records?

Keiji Haino

I burn my CDs to CD-R. Because... I hold it in my mouth and throw it. I don’t want to end up crying. So I usually burn them onto CD-R discs. I have 500 of them now.

Emma Warren

So just to clarify, because I’m not sure if I understood that correctly – you’re bringing stuff on CD-R, so your own music?

Keiji Haino

I wasn’t being clear. All of them are my CD collection. Sorry. Don’t get me wrong.

Emma Warren

Ok, so you’re saying stuff you’ve recorded onto CD-R.

Keiji Haino

Exactly. I mean I don’t want to scratch my records and CDs. That’s why I use CD-R.

Emma Warren

I think I get it. Can I ask you about record shopping? I know you went to Poland recently.

Keiji Haino

[To the simultaneous translator] I couldn’t hear what you said. Yes, I went to Poland and bought a CD. If I go on a trip, I always buy many CDs. I come back from a trip and I have a favorite musician. If you ask me the reason why you like him – is there anyone here who comes from Poland? I think this person is... I learned about him for the very first time there. I think it sounds typical. The Polish government declared martial law in 1981. People avoided radical behavior. Because the government clamped down on dissenting voices. But he continued to fight and create sounds. I think this is his home recording.

Emma Warren

So just to clarify, you’re talking about the music that was made in Poland under martial law?

Keiji Haino

I think so.

Emma Warren

Can we hear something from this? Anything in particular?

Keiji Haino

I only listened three of eight CDs. I had performed a live concert after coming Japan. I think it’s a protest song but don’t know about the lyrics.

Emma Warren

Ok, so, randomizer.

(music: Jak Kozmaski – Unknown)

So, Haino-san, can you tell me what you hear in that music? This is an artist, Jak Kozmaski? I apologize for the pronunciation.

Keiji Haino

Well, let see... I shouldn’t say irresponsible things. But it’s a typical protest song. “I don’t want to be a cog in the wheel.” That’s my understanding. As I said, I listened to three CDs. And I can’t get enough of this music. Not boring, as music. From his music, I think he is a progressive, and aggressive. I think he wasn’t interested in political issues. He’s interested in making his original music. I’ve never listened to such folk songs before. That’s why I listened to his CDs. I can’t get him out of my mind. What I consider important when I listen to music is something that reaches to my heart. Or something I can accept in my heart is, foremost, radical and aggressive sounds, generally avant-garde music. But you shouldn’t be confused, because some music may strike you as a neatly composed piece but still manages to sound fresh to me. These are the things I listen for when listen to new music.

Emma Warren

So do you think people misunderstand aggressive, controversial or powerful, and equate it only with “loud”?

Keiji Haino

Big sounds are a part of such music.

Emma Warren

If we think about the mix CD, you did a mix CD last year for Black Smoker, a hip-hop label here in Japan. What kind of records were on that CD?

Keiji Haino

What do you mean?

Emma Warren

What I’m asking is, the release you did for the Black Smoker label, which was called “Experimental Mixture”, can you tell us about the music that was included on that release?

Keiji Haino

As a matter of fact, that title is “INORI.” Here is a little secret to reveal. You saw three strange characters. They are one of the characters used in ancient Japan. It was largely forgotten by Japanese people. Three characters represent “INORI,” it means pray. That’s how it works. Black Smoker Records presented my live performances. “Experimental Mixture“ features my live performances, and I didn’t edit the sounds.

Emma Warren

So you did this mix at home, putting together this music, and you’ve described it as a prayer?

Keiji Haino

As I said, I didn’t do anything at my home. All the material was from my shows.

Emma Warren

I mean, if you were assuming to come and buy your mix CD, you might think it was recorded in a club, but in fact this is – well, perhaps you could tell us, what is the music that is on the CD? The translation is sometimes a bit confusing.

Keiji Haino

Well... CD? Of course, I DJ and mix everything. I use four CDJs in my live performance. I use my live sound source. [To the simultaneous translator] I think she doesn’t understand. Bad translator.

Emma Warren

[Laughing] Sorry, maybe I’m not understanding properly, I apologize. Can we talk about the next mix album that’s coming out, which you very kindly just gave me.

Keiji Haino

You mean my new CD?

Emma Warren

Tell us what’s inside this beautiful release.

Keiji Haino

It includes 21 tracks. That turned out to be the title of the CD. Total 65 minutes length. A song, roughly three minutes. I don’t know, but it may be a hit. This contains various sound sources. I used over 150 CDs, let’s say CD-Rs, to put 21 songs in them. I think it was around 150 to 200 discs. One of the songs contains the amount of 30 discs of data.

Emma Warren

That’s a huge amount of musical information in one CD.

Keiji Haino

When people listen to a new music, they will confuse what is right or wrong. It’s necessary to take the next step. I’m the same with my music. About the loudness of sounds, please listen to loud and low sounds, and think about the sound and music. If you think like that, you probably won’t get bored.

Emma Warren

So you made this with the same setup, four CDJs, two drum machines.

Keiji Haino

Yes, that’s right.

Emma Warren

I saw something you did recently with DJ Nobu. It was described to me as you playing “back to back” with DJ Nobu. This is a phrase we would use in our world, I’m not sure if it’s a phrase you would use. Can you tell us more about how that happened?

Keiji Haino

It’s a joint live performance. It doesn’t mean play together. When I saw the organizer, Nobu was also there.

Emma Warren

So for me, my understanding of playing back-to-back would be a DJ playing, maybe Nobu-san playing a record and then you playing a record. When you were collaborating with Nobu-san for this mix, how did it work?

Keiji Haino

Not a collaboration. [In English] So first band is DJ Nobu, then after my DJ is playing. Very simple.

Emma Warren

Ok, thank you for clarifying. He was literally DJing for you before you played. We will move swiftly on. I wonder if we can talk about Hardy Soul.

Keiji Haino

Hardy Soul requires my best condition. It shortens my life by one year. From a listener’s view... I mean, I put myself in their shoes. I know my English is poor. But I sing songs in English. I’m singing song English only.

Emma Warren

So we should explain what Hardy Soul is. This is your covers band, your blues covers band, where you’re playing classic old blues records and soul, so Percy Sledge, Otis Redding. It makes sense really because you’re part of a rock & roll tradition. Why, though, do you want to play this music in this covers band in this way?

Keiji Haino

In my understanding, black people nowadays don’t listen to hard music so much. It might be because they were forced to soften their style to please white crowd. But it’s the power in their music that I love. And the Black Power movement in the 1960s. I might be using discriminatory terms... But I wanted to remind everyone of that strength, and myself of my own musical roots. When I was a high school student, I was a singer for a very aggressive blues band. Singing aggressive blues led me to form Lost Aaraaff. So blues is my roots.

Emma Warren

So this band is about connecting to your roots and about reminding people of the power of the music and the context from which it first came.

Keiji Haino

It’s simple. I just do what I find most enjoyable.

Emma Warren

Can we hear some?

Keiji Haino

Let me see. This is a serious song for Japanese people. [In English] Of course you know “Kimigayo“ (the Japanese national anthem)? Please translate it. I sing this song in tenth century English.

Emma Warren

So what’s the connection between England in the tenth century and Hardy Soul?

Keiji Haino

This is based on a waka poem written in the tenth century. With that in mind, I used old English. There’s some sarcasm in it. It’s a little bit long. If people who saw me play at Super Deluxe last weekend think of me, I’m a guitarist. But in Hardy Soul, I do nothing but sing songs. I’m a singer. I think you can understand what I mean. I’m dying just to have you play this song. Around eight minutes in total.

Emma Warren

Of course.

Keiji Haino

First song.

Emma Warren

We’re going to go for the full eight minutes.

Keiji Haino

It’s a long-winded introduction without a song.

(music: Hardy Soul - “Kimigayo”)

Emma Warren

You mentioned this being about going back to your roots, and you mentioned yourself at high school. I understand that your entry to music was The Doors, and I wondered if you could tell us how easy or difficult it was to find that music at that point in time in Japan. For example, in the UK, with the early rock & roll acts, maybe one person would have the album and they would share it with everybody else because it was hard to find, expensive, not easy to get that music at all. How was it for you?

Keiji Haino

I had a hard time. I don’t know how it was in England but in Japan, there were no CDs yet. Instead, I bought LP records. In 1968, they were sold at the same price they are today. That is to say, they were very expensive in those days. It’s all history in Japan. In the 1950s, LP records already cost 2000 yen. They cost a fortune. In my early teens, I could only buy 7-inch singles. I couldn’t get much pocket money. I think it’s the same story in England. I listened to some radio programs at morning and at night... Open reel record? I’m sorry. I forgot the name. Anyway, I recorded the radio into my tape recorder. I listened to music.

Emma Warren

Were you ever part of the record concerts that would happen in Japan where one person would have an album and everyone would come to listen to it?

Keiji Haino

I was in a worse situation. I began to listening rock music at age 12. My generation was the baby boomer generation. There were many classmates. About 45 students in a class. My school had ten classes in each grade. I think, in each grade, less than five students listened to rock. Listening to anything except Japanese music made you the odd one out in the school. And my hometown was never a megalopolis like Tokyo. It’s the suburbs, a little far from Tokyo. I couldn’t get any information there. So I had to search proactively for cutting-edge music.

Emma Warren

Is this how you ended up in Shinjuku in the early 1970s?

Keiji Haino

When I wanted to go record shopping back in these days, I always went all the way to Shibuya. I won’t tell you guys the music store’s name. You mentioned Shinjuku earlier, Emma. Maybe it’s because you want to know about hippies or futen, Japanese hippies in Shinjuku.

Emma Warren

I guess what I’m interested in really is what it was like to be an underground artist at that time in a very conservative society.

Keiji Haino

But I’m afraid I can’t satisfy your curiosity in some ways. Maybe this is not the expected answer. I wasn’t interested in their cultural scene or organisations. Or to be involved in peace activities. I don’t mean to sound negative, but I love music because it’s an individual activity. Actually, even when I was a high school student, I didn’t try to belong to any particular group. I was just rebellious against things I found unreasonable at my school. It was toward the end of student activism era back then. So, sometimes I was asked by these students to join their assembly. But I was completely uninterested in student activism. And also, it was the era of the so-called hippie. To me, their festival just seemed to be dubious. I was uninterested in them as well. You might think I’m playing cool, but I concentrate on music production.

Emma Warren

So if they were off having their festivals and activism, where were you? Where was your place?

Keiji Haino

I was at home. [In English] House and space.

Emma Warren

Would you say it’s important to always have artists who are pushing the boundaries at a time when societies worldwide are becoming more conservative?

Keiji Haino

There is no word “boundary” in my dictionary. Literally, I just have been doing... what I want to do. I sometimes wonder what is human nature actually. And of course, what is my true identity? I have been seeking these things continuously since always. If you get bored with yourself, your career is over. I guess that’s why I have been doing what I love.

Emma Warren

Would it be possible to ask you this question you have been asking yourself over many years, “who am I?” What can you tell us about who you are?

Keiji Haino

I want to go beyond humans. Most of us remain just humans and end our lives. What does going beyond humans mean? When I end my life eventually, I mean when I die, I don’t want to regret anything. And even at the moment of my death, I want to say I can do more, then pass away.

Emma Warren

Haino-san, that feels like the right moment to put the questions out to the audience here.

Keiji Haino

Don’t ask me complicated questions. [Laughter]

Emma Warren

And again what I would, because we’re speaking through translators, if we could try and keep our questions quite simple.

Keiji Haino

Excuse me, the translator is breaking up again.

Audience member

Hi, how are you doing. I was wondering what your feelings were on someone like Charles Ives, who was breaking the boundaries in the 1910s in America with quarter-tone music, and if you have any feelings about him or his music?

Keiji Haino

You still haven’t done what you really want to do. Be conscious of this feeling. Maybe it’s the only way. For all I know, if you are satisfied with what you do, you will never progress anymore. So, always be unsatisfied. I personally have never been satisfied with what I have done. Nothing was perfect. I always say “more, more, more, most, most, most.”

Audience member

When you play the instruments that speak to you, do you see visual images? If so, what do you see?

Keiji Haino

[To the simultaneous translator] I couldn’t hear the first part. Please repeat it. First, for me, every sound or every music composed by others, I mean the sound I have never listened to, or the unfamiliar-shaped instrument. Sometimes I’m surprised, “Is this really an instrument?” But I freely feel, “This must be made for me.” This instrument is for me, too. It doesn’t mean the feeling. Rather than feeling... To see whether it’s an amazing instrument, I must see whether I have good chemistry with it. So I have to play it to see its true value. I was strongly interested in an instrument recently. I tried it actually, and it was amazing. It’s a hurdy-gurdy. Hurdy-gurdy. The translator needs improvement.

Audience member

It’s like meditation? Do you see images?

Keiji Haino

In my case, I usually practice meditation. Well... I’m sorry I have to tell this but probably the translator isn’t translating accurately, I guess. Could you explain it more clearly?

Audience member

I’m just trying to think of how to say it more simply. When you play hurdy-gurdy, do you see images?

Keiji Haino

I don’t see any images. I’m glad you’re laughing. I hope it’s convincing to you. Not that I empty my mind when I play the hurdy-gurdy. I can be everything. I can be everything while I’m playing. So, I always don’t see particular images. [In English] I’m space.

Audience member

I wanted to know, you said that you bite on the CDs when you are performing?

Keiji Haino

Because there are a huge number of CDs around me. I have an illusion that I can play five CDs at once, so I hold one in my mouth. I might look silly. [Pause for translator] If I have ten CDJs, I can try harder.

Emma Warren

So really the biting is just holding, but in your mouth.

Audience member

Do you physically put the CD in your mouth? Yes? You do that?

Keiji Haino

It’s not some performance. I have only two hands, so I have to hold the third CD in my mouth. I don’t bite it, actually I hold it. After a tune, I want to put on the next CD immediately.

Audience member

Do you bite into them, like ruin them?

Keiji Haino

No, I have never done it. It’s too uncomfortable to bite.

Emma Warren

[Laughter] This is the joy of language.

Keiji Haino

This sounds like a joke, outside Japan, people sometimes say I have CDs as my daily meal. Was it clearly understood? It means I listen to them. I don’t actually eat them. Let’s say, after I play my live show, I burn out all my fuel. Then I buy a new CD I have never listened to to take on my fuel. It’s like a refill.

Emma Warren

Feeding yourself with music.

Keiji Haino

That’s right.

Audience member

Thank you for your lecture. My question is, do you think that some DJs, and I think about one particularly, Jeff Mills, who just like you uses a lot of CDJs on the stage, and who works with sounds and textures, do you think these kind of guys are the future of DJing?

Keiji Haino

Sorry, I have never heard about the guy. I’ll find his CD soon and listen later. Anyway, about every genre of music, about every genre of art, it comes down to this point. Do you seriously produce your own music? Or do you just want to show it off? Please realize these differences. It fits in every genre. I guess it’s beneficial to you in a lot of ways. It will bring a good influence on your own musical works. Your works will have a good deal of creativity. I have rarely listened to dance music in my life. But even about dance music, if the composer seriously produces his own music, I’ll find some common ground with dance music. Frankly speaking, that about sums it up.

Audience member

Hi. You have such an incredible energy, and I think when you play the chimes they give off vibrations. I think those vibrations can be healing and I wanted to know if you wouldn’t mind playing again the instrument that you have in front of you? [Haino plays the polygonola briefly] Thank you.

Keiji Haino

Any other questions?

Audience member

Hi. You said you don’t like to repeat yourself, but you record a lot of albums. Isn’t that in a way a kind of repetition?

Keiji Haino

Let me give you an example. When I do musical activity as a band, there are several bandmates with me. Then I have to communicate my idea to my bandmates. What I’m about to say consists of two different topics. That in my view, those who are referred to as composers can’t compose a piece of music on the spot. That’s why they were named as composers. For all I know, playing melody in general terms, or making a riff, means you occasionally use one note which is so intricate and sensitive to compose a phrase. In that phrase, the combination of six sounds that you’ve put together, among these six sounds, to put it plainly, eight-beat, four-beat and sixteen-beat, simultaneously [inaudible] be in one riff all at once.

If you compose such a riff, because they can be played in different speed, even if you don’t play the sounds at the same timing, it could exist as a block of sounds, and prolongs or shortens little by little every time. Something like that could be presented as my work. As he said in the beginning, I like your expression, it was an interesting choice of words. When I say I don’t repeat myself, I genuinely don’t want to do it exactly. For instance, the staff brought me here from my house by car today. If I come here by myself, I have to walk to the station. I have to get on a train. And I walk to here. It is also repeating myself if I am conscious. Depending on how I look at it, I suppose it will be one of my habits. But this is an important point. If you acquire a habit, make sure that it has a positive impact on you. So, let’s get back to music. The riff you composed, or the riff that came in form from you. Just imagine your bandmates say, “It’s a great riff.” And when you have something similar to it in terms of notation, or in terms of rhythm interpretation. Either way, as long as you’re disciplined not to repeat yourself, I think you can live in a world that’s free from the concept of time. Have I made myself clear?

Audience member

Hello. I’d like to know if you think your work says something about Japanese society? Could your music have happened anywhere else than in Japan?

Keiji Haino

This is... This is a very delicate question. So I’m going to be cautious with my answer. Speaking of traditional things, every country must have some traditional things. It depends on your way of listening. There are two types. Some people happen to hear music without any consciousness. And other people listen to music with renewed consciousness. I don’t know if English has a counterpart of Onkochishin. It’s Japanese. It means carrying knowledge into new fields. Does English have the same proverb, too? The translator? Could you tell me if English has it? Please tell me now, on my earphones. Does English have it too? All right.

When viewed from this point, any music you feel new is actually new. And now, I have something that makes me a little nervous. At a certain time in history, the Japanese started to visit many countries. Japan has developed dramatically. I mean rapidly. People say, “As a result of rapid economic growth, the distortion in the economy gave rise to noise music.” But I’m dissatisfied with it. I really dislike that people call my style “noise music.” It doesn’t matter whether it’s in the eastern or western world. Race doesn’t matter either in all senses. It means people all over the world can be friends. I believe it. I say it proudly. Not society, individuals should change. Humans can do many more things if they try. Humans haven’t reached the limit at all. If people change their consciousness like this, the world will be more exciting.

Emma Warren

Be more and more. I think that’s a really great note to finish on. Haino-san, thank you very much.

Keiji Haino

Thank you.