Mo

Nick Dwyer

Over the last few years you’ve been working for a company called Handle with Care, and as you were saying Handle with Care is a company that looks after manufacturing. People have made their track in the studio, but there’s this big grey area between having a track finished in a studio and then seeing it on the record shelves. And that’s where your company comes in. We’ll talk about that later on, but let’s listen to a track just so people can get a nice idea of where you are musically.

Mo

Well yeah, actually, I thought maybe I’d just play the first record that we released on our label Elektro Music Department. What was started in ‘94, so it’s 10 years old.

Nick Dwyer

And this is a track by yourself and Klaus Kotai?

Mo

I didn’t listen to it before, so I’m not sure which.

(music: Kotai + Mo – “E. H. Tranquilizer” / applause)

There isn’t much happening, you know? [moves record forward] The thing is it’s very minimal. Actually we got some respect for that, because at that time that kind of minimal stuff wasn’t very popular, but for us it was an aesthetic necessity.

Nick Dwyer

When you say you had support, was this just in Germany or outside also?

Mo

Pretty much outside, and I’m still getting a lot of response to our label. That was release number one. This was maybe ‘96 and it was release number six, so you can see we didn’t release a lot.

(music: Kotai + Mo – “Silencer” / applause)

I want to play the other side because we were achieving our own style. At that time our equipment was basic, it was mainly our synthesizer, which was a Korg. [Our studio] was like a Korg park.

Nick Dwyer

How did both of you work? Were you more the engineer or was Kotai?

Mo

No, it was completely democratic. Often I was coming up with an idea, like this track I had the word “silencer” in my head, which I liked because of the meaning and the sound, so we started playing around with it and decided Kotai should just say the word “silencer.” Often I was taking care of the bass. I was the Korg specialist. We were just switching, jamming. Often I was arranging and putting it together.

Nick Dwyer

With the minimal sound that you guys were doing, what were you listening to at the time?

Mo

I wouldn’t say anything really influenced us. We were very respectful towards Daniel Bell, Rob Hood and Panasonic, who were friends, so sometimes we found ourselves getting close to their sound, and then we’d go, “Ooh, no!” This was something that could happen. I’m sure that happened to them too. You should never follow someone else’s ideas.

(music: Kotai + Mo – “Boys in the Backstreet” / applause)

Nick Dwyer

This is 1996, the sixth release on your label. And this was made in Berlin, but Berlin wasn’t always your home, your place of birth.

Mo

No, I was born in Düsseldorf.

Nick Dwyer

Tell us about Düsseldorf.

Mo

I was starting to party in the late ‘70s – I was quite young then – and that was the time when the electronic music was happening, like Kraftwerk and La Düsseldorf and Neu!, and also punk started. Both were quite massive at the time.

Nick Dwyer

Obviously, Kraftwerk are from Düsseldorf. Was there great awareness of electronic music because these were your local boys?

Mo

They were just part of it. It was not a big deal at that time. It was kind of a movement. For example, La Düsseldorf, which probably none of you know, they were as popular as Kraftwerk at that time. So there was a club called Ratinger Hof, it was just all white and metal and neon light on top, so it was really bright inside even when the party was on. And they were also having fashion shows, late ’70s, early ’80s.

Nick Dwyer

There’s a lot of artists there, a lot of galleries there. Düsseldorf always had a history of this art background. So there was a great symbiosis of the music and art coming together?

Mo

Definitely this was always happening. There was also some aesthetic thing going on all the time. For instance, the Ratinger Hof originally was done by the girlfriend of Blinky Palermo – I don’t know if you know him – like a minimal modern artist. There was another place before where Nam June Paik was having a TV wall. There was stuff like that. At the same time punk was happening heavily. This street that the club was on, you couldn’t pass through if you weren’t looking punk-ish, they’d throw bottles at you, it was really dangerous. If you went there wearing a cap you’d be hit by a beer bottle. At the same time, the Kraftwerk guys would come there in their suits and be respected.

Nick Dwyer

And you were studying art yourself in Düsseldorf?

Mo

I studied art, painting.

Nick Dwyer

Were you doing anything musical in Düsseldorf?

Mo

I’ve always had the desire to create, because if I don’t do it, nobody will do it my way. This is something I still feel, whether DJing or producing.

Nick Dwyer

You were DJing at this stage in Düsseldorf?

Mo

Yes, then it was just art student parties. I was even playing music from tapes. It was a wild mixture of all styles.

Nick Dwyer

1991 in Germany, everything changed. Obviously with the collapse of the Berlin Wall, there were all these opportunities. Tell us about this time.

Mo

Actually, the change was in 1989. I came to Berlin in winter 1991, because I wanted to visit a friend. I was already planning to leave Düsseldorf because I’d finished my studies and I was so impressed by this historical moment in the city that I decided to stay there. It was just a visit but from then on I didn’t leave. It was a culture clash because of the people from East Germany, because for me as a German, we were speaking the same language, we both called ourselves Germans, but we had a completely different background and a different mentality. I was immediately living in East Berlin because I thought, OK if I’m already here, I want to be where it’s happening. This was winter, Berlin winter, close to Siberia, lots of snow, really cold. I was walking outside to go to the store, to get some toilet paper, something you’d just quickly grab and go back. And outside there was a queue waiting, in the middle of this cold winter, snow up to here. [points to waist] I thought maybe they’re waiting for the shop to open, but the shop was open. And there was a woman inside, a cashier, two people walking around buying stuff and the rest waiting outside. I didn’t understand why they were queueing so I went inside. I thought they can queue if they want, I’ll just get my stuff and go. And I went inside and the woman told me you need a basket. So I said, “OK, where are the baskets?” And she said, “There are only two and they are already in use.” [laughter] This was the system, and everyone was waiting to get their basket. And there was some logic in it because you only need one person to be in control of the shop because there was only two baskets. So this was something I’d never experienced before.

Nick Dwyer

This was the time you moved to Berlin and so did a lot of artists from all over the world, because you had this free space and there was this big squatting scene.

Mo

Especially in the central part of Berlin, there was a lot of empty spaces. They were old buildings and in East Germany people didn’t want to live in old buildings. It was cold, everything breaking down. So a lot of these buildings were empty, flats with wallpaper peeling off, stalagmites, you could tell that this place wasn’t inhabited since Second World War. You could just go there and throw parties. Everything was so confused, the police didn’t know what laws should be enforced. East Berlin policemen all of a sudden were wearing West Berlin uniforms and they had to look everything up. Like, “What is the law for someone riding a bicycle on the sidewalk?” If you were throwing illegal parties it was very easy because there was no one after you, you know?

Nick Dwyer

So what became known as the Berlin techno scene, the great vibrancy from that was born out of this whole East Berlin thing. You could stay open till nine without anyone saying anything, you could sell liquor and no one would know.

Mo

There were parties, like in one cellar where you had to go right down and it was filled with water and there were bridges made out of wood you had to cross and there was this big soundsystem and it was full of people. But it only lasted two weeks, and then it was onto the next location.

Nick Dwyer

At what point did you think, “I can do this better,” and start throwing parties yourself?

Mo

It was just because I was into the music and into dancing so there was a point where I wasn’t satisfied with what I heard. I knew some people throwing regular parties at a small venue and I became their resident. And then I met Daniel Pflumm, the visual part of our label, he had opened a bar where he was selling T-shirts and DJ tapes, and he asked me for a DJ tape and then I came to his place. We threw a party and it worked and from then on we used it as a club, and this was called Electro. This was from ’92 to ’94. After some time I also started to work at Hard Wax, the record store in Berlin.

Nick Dwyer

For people who don’t know about Hardwax, it’s a bit legendary, yes?

Mo

It was the first techno store, techno and reggae, and it was run by one of the Basic Channel guys, Mark Ernestus.

Nick Dwyer

Normally, you wouldn’t associate techno and reggae internationally in a record store.

Mo

They are definitely a lot into reggae. They go to Detroit and Jamaica, that’s the two levels they are working on. So, yeah. Because I was working there, I met a lot of people, so I could get almost everybody to play at our club.

Nick Dwyer

What was the music policy?

Mo

It was just to give another view of what was happening. Rob Hood, for example, sometimes he did a hip hop set because he’s really into hip hop. DJ Hell, Electric Indigo, Air Liquide was playing live, Jimi Tenor was playing live. Everything was happening on a really low-budget level, they weren’t getting any fee, there was no entrance fee so we didn’t make any money out of it. But the atmosphere was so good and people were so into it, everybody wanted to play.

Nick Dwyer

Were people travelling all over for this club?

Mo

I’m sure some people came for the club but most of the people performing were local because we couldn’t afford to buy them a ticket. Dave Clarke was playing, Christian Vogel. It could even happen that somebody famous was playing and there was only ten people. Nothing was planned. Sometimes it was completely full and 50 people would stand outside because the whole place was maybe half the size of this room. 60 people was nice, 100 people and it’s too crowded.

Nick Dwyer

This club finished in 1994. This was the time that Elektro Music Department started? At first what was the role of Elektro Music Department? Was it to put out your friends’ music or the stuff you began producing yourself?

Mo

No, it was our own music. Because of the Elektro club I met Kotai and we started producing our own music and it immediately worked. The idea of starting a label was already there but we didn’t know what to release on it. Should we just release stuff by the DJs we were inviting to play? But nothing really worked. So then we had our own music and decided to release it.

Nick Dwyer

The fourth release was by Peter Ford, Baby Ford.

Mo

No, TripleR.

Nick Dwyer

OK, but you had other people doing stuff as well?

Mo

Yes, but these were friends. Peter Ford did release something on the label, together with Kotai and Baader, so there was some cooperation, but mostly it was just us.

Nick Dwyer

The label is still in existence?

Mo

It’s still in existence, but it has kind of passed.

Nick Dwyer

When was the last 12” released?

Mo

The last thing was this CD released last year.

Nick Dwyer

Together with Kompakt.

Mo

This was distributed by Kompakt. Before that it was Neuton, but we changed.

Nick Dwyer

Did you do any other club nights?

Mo

We started Panasonic from ‘95 to ’97. The concept was we were inviting producers and they were presenting themselves in whatever platform they liked. We also had producers’ nights. I have a very large record collection, so we would have, for example, a night of Leo Anibaldi, a famous early ‘90s techno artist from Rome. And so it was very intense because of this. It was not just party music, but the sound of one person for the whole evening, it was really thick, you know?

Nick Dwyer

Did you want to encourage new producers and give them a platform or was it for already established producers?

Mo

Well, it was just friends. People would sometimes approach us, but normally it was friends. The scene in Berlin is still growing but even at that time it was quite big.

Nick Dwyer

How are things in Berlin now? I could reel off several people who’ve moved to Berlin. I’m sure you know the whole Richie Hawtin story, the list goes on, that whole “I’m going to Berlin, the streets are paved with gold”-thing.

Mo

It seems if people are thinking of moving, they move to Berlin. Compared to some big cities it’s still quite cheap. You can find a way to make a living, a studio is affordable. Some other cities are just insane. I like the city, the architecture, really wide streets, a lot of parks. It’s a big city but you can still make your way very easily. And then, of course, I have so many friends there by now, I’ve been there for 13 years.

Nick Dwyer

The last few years you’ve been involved with this company called Handle with Care. It’s a bit of a grey area. You make your record, you want to get it pressed, but there’s this whole process in between, it’s got to go to a pressing plant, mastering and so on, and it can get really confusing. What’s the whole history behind it? Who started Handle with Care, and what was the ethos behind running the company?

Mo

It was started five years ago by a woman called Silke Radecki. She used to run Neuton distribution, so she learned her job there, then moved to Berlin and the idea is to help people with their releases. She was also supported by friends. Perlon was one of the first labels.

Nick Dwyer

What areas does Handle with Care look after? Is it just manufacturing, publishing?

Mo

Sometimes people just call us and say, “I want to put my music out.” We can give advice. For example, if someone doesn’t have a distributor, which we don’t do, we can give any advice. What we regularly do is pass the master onto a mastering studio, work with several studios, in England and Germany mainly, so we choose which ones to use with the producer.

Nick Dwyer

You say Perlon was the first to get involved and it’s now expanded to what, 500, 600 labels? Who are your clients, who are you looking after?

Mo

Me personally, I’m mainly looking after English-speaking labels. We usually take care of underground labels. I can give you tons of names, but probably you’ve never heard of them. The bigger ones are Bpitch Control, Gigolo, Perlon, Mental Groove, Hefty, Third Ear, the stuff of Marco Passarani, who actually invited me here, which is Nature and Pigna. All over, you know?

Nick Dwyer

Musically, all styles as well?

Mo

Yeah, we’re doing jazz and heavy metal as well, but 99% is electronic music. Also, Honest Jon’s, reggae. We don’t really care what kind of music it is.

Nick Dwyer

So what kinds of processes are we going through here? Say, they finished it in the studio and their mate is a really good engineer, does it go through another mastering process?

Mo

Yes.

Nick Dwyer

Tell us about the process from there to there.

Mo

You have your master CD-R, should be either data CD-R or audio, could be also DAT, could be different formats. You have your music and you give it to us. You don’t know which mastering studio to use. I talk to you and you tell me what kind of music it is. Maybe you say it’s for the dancefloor and it should have some power, and it should have some EQ-ing on the highs. So I talk to you about the different studios I would suggest in your case. Say, the Exchange is a big studio in London. So I would send it there. And you should supply all the titles, whether you want it on 45 RPM or 33 RPM. Maybe you tell me it’s three tracks, so I ask, “Do you know which one is the A-side and which the B-side?” Then, if either side is longer than ten minutes, then it’s definitely on 33. If it’s only seven minutes or so, then it can be done on 45.

Nick Dwyer

What’s the limit you can get away with without losing sound quality on 33? I hear it’s around eleven minutes, but my old Star Wars album I got when I was eight years old is 45 minutes long on one side.

Mo

You can have about 30 minutes in an LP format. But then it’s really tight and the volume is pretty low. Then I would advise you to use DMM direct metal mastering, because if you’re cutting on lacquer, the good thing about lacquer is the grooves, you can cut really deep into the material. The stylus of the cutting machine can go really deep. And you can use wide space and this makes it sound more voluminous. If you don’t have that space and you have to go with really short-distance loops, then you should use direct metal mastering because the sound will be transferred one-to-one without losing anything. I’d talk to you about this. Normally, when people come to us they’ve not been talking to anyone.

Nick Dwyer

Now it goes to the mastering house before it goes to the plant, they master it, cut the mastering lacquer and then that goes to the plant?

Mo

To start the pressing you need the music to be transferred into something that can be used as a stamper. You have your track on CD-R and you need it on vinyl. So the mastering studio would listen to the music, see how long the track is, how far can we go up to the center, because the closer you come to the center the more resolution you will lose. The mastering studio will take care of that, tell you not to come too close to the center or something. For example, if you have one track with delicate heights and the other is more bass-y, you would use the first track outside here because the resolution is better, it’s just a physical thing. This is something the mastering studio should take care of, and then you have your music on a lacquer.

Nick Dwyer

What exactly is a lacquer?

Mo

It’s bigger and inside there is metal and on top an acetate. It’s very delicate. When we receive this lacquer in our office, it’s in a big box.

Nick Dwyer

Is it the same as a dubplate?

Mo

It’s similar, but the dubplate can only be used 40 times and then it’s just off. This lacquer will be sent to the pressing plant and they start the galvanic processing.

Nick Dwyer

Can you explain galvanic processing?

Mo

It looks like a chemical laboratory; actually, it is. They receive the lacquer and put it in a machine where it will be galvanised, with silver on top. Your lacquer afterwards will be destroyed. Some people say, “I want my lacquer back.” But it doesn’t exist anymore because it will be looking like this. You can even play it – you shouldn’t because you will damage it. Then after the galvanic process the grooves will all be outside. This is called “the father,” then you do “the mother.” You can play the mother but it’s made of metal. Then you’re doing a stamper of the mother, so the grooves are coming out, and this stamper will be placed in the machine. You do one stamper for each side, you make a positive of it, then a negative, then another positive. So you have a bottom and a top. These machines look really old, I think they’re still the same as in the ’40s and ’50s. So there is vinyl granulate that is really hot coming into this machine. The paper labels are already in the machine on top and bottom. Then it’s pressed. The vinyl is already inside and will be pressed with the stamper. Then there is a knife that will cut the edge.

Nick Dwyer

With the advent of CDs a lot of people have been saying for years that vinyl will die, blah, blah, blah. There were stories about EMI closing their UK pressing plant. Are these pressing plants sustaining enough business to maintain a living and keep open?

Mo

There is another French plant closing down, and another one in Germany who told us just last week that they stopped doing vinyl. So it’s definitely not a growing market. For us, we as a company are growing. It definitely doesn’t die. I don’t know how long it will stay like this but at the moment it seems like it’s still continuously growing a bit.

Nick Dwyer

How many plants like this are there in the world? More than a hundred?

Mo

Oh no, no. In Germany, for example, there are two right now, which we are working with. There is one in Netherlands. I think there’s one in England still, Curved Pressings, but I worked with them once and I think they were into weed a lot. It was taking very very long so we don’t use them anymore.

Nick Dwyer

A friend of mine was making a record and he got them pressed in Czechoslovakia. There wasn’t much awareness in New Zealand of where to get records pressed, but he did some research and got them pressed there, then there’s all these people in New Zealand getting their records pressed at this magical pressing plant in Czechoslovakia.

Mo

Our first record this year was done there. We had our first three releases done in Czechoslovakia. We always went there and passed it onto them. There’s one in Czechoslovakia, one in Romania and one in Poland I’ve heard, but we’re not working with them. Not because we don’t want to but because the ones we work with are sufficient.

Nick Dwyer

What dictates which plant you work with? The sound factor is taken care of from the master lacquer. So is a different plant going to affect the sound or is it just cost and shipping?

Mo

Well, it can affect the sound. It depends how they do the vinyl. My customers are mainly divided between a pressing plant in France, MPO, and another one in Germany, Pallas. Pallas is using more graphite parts in their vinyl so it’s softer. If you have more delicate sound, like ambient, then it could be advisable to use Pallas vinyl. But normally my customers are from the dance scene – DJs – so it’s good that the vinyl is harder and more resistant, for taking in and out of the sleeve and so on. Mainly it’s cost calculation. For German customers it’s good to use a German pressing plant because shipping is cheaper. Usually with a customer we give them estimates. Let’s say you’re doing 1,000 copies and you’re planning a repress of 300 units within the next couple of months, then another 300 units, then MPO would be better for you because they are cheaper on smaller pressings.

Nick Dwyer

My friend back home, let’s use him as a case study, he’s only pressing say 500. Now because of the 500 or so labels that Handle with Care deals with, it doesn’t really matter how many you’re pressing up of a different track, it’s the fact you’re pressing up lots of different tracks that secures you a lower rate, yes?

Mo

We’re working like a broker, so we have a key account at these pressing plants, and from time to time we’re working with new partners and we can tell them, “OK, you tell us you want 1.20 euro, but we can get it here for 86 cent, so what shall we do, you know?” Of course we are dealing this way.

Nick Dwyer

What’s the preferred choice of format. DATs, CD-R or MP3?

Mo

No, MP3 not at all. It’s advisable to come up with audio CD-R or data, but then you should ask what data to put in. Actually, there is one studio we’re working with, Dubplates & Mastering, who have a really good homepage.

Nick Dwyer

That’s the Basic Channel guys?

Mo

Yes. So if you want to know what format to use, how to provide it, what can be done, and even if you want locked grooves cut, check their homepage.

Nick Dwyer

Is it difficult to do a locked groove?

Mo

No, it just needs a certain specification, which needs to be followed really carefully. I think it’s something like 133BPM for a 33BPM groove, and it needs to be 1.8 seconds. But this is something you can check on the Dubplates & Mastering website.

Nick Dwyer

Now, correct me if I’m wrong, but Q-Bert and the Thud Rumble guys have perfected the skip-proof groove. It’s not skip-proof but the groove doesn’t run in a straight circle, it zigzags out, so if the needle jumps it will still jump into the same place. Are you familiar with that?

Mo

What are you talking about?

Nick Dwyer

Thud Rumble, it’s a hip-hop label that does battle records for DJs and they’ve perfected this format where the grooves run in a kind of zigzag all the way round, so if the needle jumps it will be at the same soundpoint when it comes back in. I’m probably not describing it very well. Someone mentioned a glassmaster, what’s that?

Mo

That’s a stamper that you use for a CD. With a CD you can give us a CD-R already mastered, so everything is already in order as it would be on the final CD, the sound levels are adjusted. You would need someone to do the pre-mastering. Then we pass it on to the pressing plant and they do the glassmastering in the glassmastering studio. It’s the same as with the vinyl but not as many steps, not as complicated and it doesn’t look like an old fashioned chemical laboratory, but more hi-tech.

Nick Dwyer

So, you don’t just look after vinyl, it’s also CDs, DVDs, the whole works. Anything a label needs, they go to you. What about, for example, some guys want to get 50 test pressings done to hand out to DJs. Not necessarily being a client per se...

Mo

Well, immediately they would be a client, if they do it with us. It doesn’t matter. For 50 white labels I would tell you, the mastering will cost around 340 euro plus galvanic processing and three test pressings another 170 euro, and then 1.20 euro per white label. And then there would be shipping, and that would be it.

Nick Dwyer

How much is it per unit?

Mo

Per unit?

Nick Dwyer

You said €350 for the mastering.

Mo

€350 for the mastering. Then there is shipping lacquers to the pressing plant which is another 20 euro or so. If you only want three test pressings, then the shipping is free with MPO. This is why I mostly use MPO because I usually deal with foreign customers and it’s better for them to get the shipping for free. It would be, uh, [calculates sums aloud] 520?

Nick Dwyer

520, that’s all you’ve got to pay from mastering through to pressing. And from there, 50 test pressings you said 1.20 euro each. Now what if I want 500 how much is the cost going to come down, and then what about for 1,000?

Mo

[laughs] I’m really bad at prices. It depends. For example, if you have some vision of what the printed label should look like. Then we provide the specifications and then we hope you have someone at your side doing the graphics who knows what he or she is doing. So sometimes it takes time. Then, if you have a two color label, or let’s say one color, black and white. Then you send us the graphic files and we send it to our developer and they’ll be sent to the pressing plant, because in France they have a print shop inside the factory.

Nick Dwyer

So, not all these plants offer artwork service for the sleeves?

Mo

No, the sleeves are always done at the printers. It depends on what kind of sleeve you want and then we’ll say, “OK, in their case we’ll use this printer because they are a better option.”

Nick Dwyer

So I’m pressing up 500, how much more am I going to pay going from that normal sleeve to that? Say, I’ve got a great picture of me as a baby and I want to put that on the cover too.

Mo

If you only want to do 500 copies, if you’re planning to do some money on it, I’d advise not to use your own sleeves, but to use standard sleeves. This is a standard disco sleeve, inner sleeve. [gesturing at record sleeve] There you don’t have manual packaging, they come out of the machine into the sleeve. Manual packaging is people standing at a high table doing it by hand, with gloves on.

Nick Dwyer

So the process gets drawn out?

Mo

For this manual packaging you have to pay five cent and four cent for the paper bag, so it’s already nine cent extra. The cost of a disco sleeve, I’d have to check myself. Of course, if you’re using a standard sleeve, this one here is CYK, four colors, so you need four films, which will be sent to the printer. You would need at least 600 sleeves for 500 vinyls because some will get damaged in transport and at the pressing plant. During manual packaging something can happen. So, if you’re only doing 500 copies, it’s very expensive to do a sleeve of your own.

Nick Dwyer

Do you make new labels shy away from fancy artwork because it’s expensive and they need to keep costs down?

Mo

If someone is just starting, I would tell them, of course. Unless they have a lot of money they’ll have to count and calculate really tight. Some people do it because they love it and they don’t care, so they want a fancy sleeve even for 500 copies, so I don’t stop them.

Nick Dwyer

If someone has made a track and they think it’s going to be the next big thing, they want to press up 5,000. Would you sit there and listen to it and say, “Go with 500 and then repress”?

Mo

No, no, this is something they would have to discuss with their distributor.

Nick Dwyer

Most labels these days, are they just pressing in batches of 1,000 and re-pressing?

Mo

Yes.

Nick Dwyer

What’s the turn around time from you having the master to the finished product?

Mo

If we receive a master, which is done properly – not one with a lot of problems – then two weeks. Then, once you approve the test pressings and we receive the graphic artwork according to our specifications, another two weeks.

Nick Dwyer

Once I get my test press back from MPO, what am I looking for?

Mo

First you have to check that it is your own track. It can happen. [laughs] Not very often, but it happened to me personally in Czechoslovakia. Then you check for crackling noises in case they didn’t do the galvanic process properly. If you tell us there are crackling noises that shouldn’t be there, then I’ll call the pressing plant. Immediately, they will make another test pressing just to make sure. If that crackling noise is still there or even if it crackles in the same place that proves there was some dirt, or something was wrong with the stamper. So either they’d do a new stamper, or sometimes they have to admit... It can happen to the best pressing plant. It doesn’t happen very often but it can happen that they destroyed the original part, so everything has to be done again.

Nick Dwyer

That’s at no extra cost to you, the pressing plant take care of that?

Mo

This is something that we take care of. We make sure that whoever’s responsible will cover the cost. You may lose time, but that is something you cannot help.

Nick Dwyer

This is another reason why it makes sense to come in with you. Say I’ve just made the best bootleg ever, some old Prince track, so it’s sample-led but I just want to press up some cheeky white labels, can I come to you for it?

Mo

We also take care of mechanical rights. This is the first question when you ask for performer invoice. We would make sure mechanical rights are cleared.

Nick Dwyer

What are mechanical rights exactly?

Mo

Every country, except for the States, although they do have associations connected to this worldwide organization, normally. Let’s give an example from Germany. If you’re a German artist planning to produce and spread your tracks among a few labels it would be advisable to register with GEMA, the company for mechanical rights in Germany.

Nick Dwyer

Every single country has a different company.

Mo

In England it’s MCPS, in Italy SIAE, in France it’s SESAM, SUISA in Switzerland. This actually works really well, if you’re coming to us as a customer, and you say, “I want 500 copies of my track done, I’m a registered artist.” Then you’d have to fill in a form. You can register yourself and have GEMA send us a fax to us with the confirmation that this is done. Otherwise, write down your name and artist name under which you’re registered with GEMA, the names of the tracks, the length of the tracks, who was the writer, who was the producer, the quantity to be pressed and the price it’s to be sold at in the shops.

Nick Dwyer

What does it cost to register with these companies?

Mo

In Germany it’s 50 euro a year.

Nick Dwyer

Do they also look after money from radio plays?

Mo

Yes, they are. In Germany there is another association, which is like a publisher, GVL. GEMA is also taking care of this in a way but it is a big bowl and all the radio stations put in whatever they have played and normally it’s like, say, Prince is having this amount [indicates large amount], Madonna is having this amount [indicates large amount] and then some underground labels get this amount [indicates small amount]. If they claim that they played your track, your money will be passed onto Prince because he’s on top. This is something that’s not really working because people don’t always announce what they play.

Nick Dwyer

In the clubs, if you get a track played you are supposed to get paid for it but because it’s such a grey area and no one writes down what they play it doesn’t happen.

Mo

In clubs usually they have to pay a fee to those associations, but since they have no playlist the money goes to those who are played the most. If all the clubs would fill out the forms saying what they played then the situation would be changed, but I don’t think it will happen.

Nick Dwyer

You guys have direct links with just GEMA?

Mo

We deal with GEMA and GEMA contacts those other companies across the world.

Nick Dwyer

So say, for example, someone comes to you from a label in Siberia, you would make sure all their mechanical rights are covered as well?

Mo

It depends, if there is a company like this in Siberia, then we will contact GEMA and pass on the information we have and the artists, then they’ll look to see if there’s a partner company in Siberia. If not, then they will see if you are registered anywhere in the world. But if they don’t find you then they’ll say there are no licenses to be paid. So, if you are the label owner producing your own stuff, you won’t need to pay anything but also you won’t get anything. If you are a label owner releasing some stuff by a Siberian artist, then you won’t need to pay anything and the artist won’t get anything. But, if he would be registered and you are just the label owner, then you’d have to pay and the artist would get it.

Nick Dwyer

What about compilations? A major label picks up your track for a compilation, you guys protect the artist working with GEMA?

Mo

We can give some advice but we’re not a publisher. All we can do is make sure everything to do with the pressing is done properly and legally.

Nick Dwyer

So going back to my original question, if I come to you with my wickedest new bootleg that’s like a Nas beat and a Prince vocal, you guys wouldn’t be happy pressing it?

Mo

Well, if you can prove Prince agreed with it, then there’s no problem. You’d have to clear it in advance. But, if you just say, “OK, I won’t tell them it’s Prince, I’ll just tell them it’s me.” We don’t listen to your music – I just told you [laughs] – we pass it onto the pressing plant. They have someone going through every single release, checking it carefully. They will find out and they will inform us and say, “You told us everything was legal but it cannot be. On the label it says Nick whatever and it’s Prince.” So everything would be freezed, you’d have to pay for your whole production but you wouldn’t get your records.

Nick Dwyer

But someone walking into a record shop, there’s millions and millions of bootlegs released all the time. If there’s someone at the pressing plant with their eagle eye watching over things, where are these guys getting their bootlegs?

Mo

I don’t know. [laughs]

Nick Dwyer

Not MPO or Czechoslovakia?

Mo

I don’t know.

Nick Dwyer

Any questions?

Audience Member

I’m very into hip-hop and I’ve got hundreds of records where someone has taken an acapella from one record and an instrumental from another and stuck them together and put them out. I know people have done it all over the world. In order to be able to do that, because it’s a creative thing in hip-hop and artists don’t do it to steal music, they do it to show other people how well these records go together. So in effect they’re promoting the artists. So if I wanted to do that, is it impossible unless I’ve got a friend working in the... ?

Mo

I mean, for us, we don’t care as long as nobody is complaining. I know there are records we did with samples where the original artist is aware of it, and many of them like it, not because of promotion, because they like the track. If no one makes a problem, then it’s OK. All you have to do with us is fill in the form. You don’t have to say, “I used this sample blah blah blah,” just that you are the creator of this music and all relevant information. This is what counts for us, not the content. Sometimes, especially lately, we got fascist music and since we are not listening to it, we just pass it on. And then the mastering studio says, “Hey, this is no good, please listen tothis. We are not going to do this.” This kind of music will definitely be stopped.

Nick Dwyer

When you say fascist music, you mean anti-political sentiment?

Mo

Yeah, I mean, Nazi songs. Some pressing plants that weren’t so bothered by it were getting into trouble for doing it. If you are self-confident and you think it’s OK to use the sample, then do it. But if it’s not OK, then someone might come up and say, “It’s not just using a sample. This is a bootleg of Prince.” Then it will be stopped. Of course, you can fill in something that’s not true and we won’t be able to check it, but if it’ll be found out at the pressing plant. But what you’re talking about, there’ll be no problem.

Participant

Do you charge a set fee or a percentage of what the record makes for your service?

Mo

What we are doing is, you pay the whole production to us. This is it. There’s no extra fee of, “OK, this is going to be a major hit and we want our profit.”

Participant

How long can a sample be before you have to license it?

Mo

First, this is nothing to do with us. We’re not a GEMA or anything like it. There is a rumor that says three seconds is okay, but as far as I know, it’s not. Then again, if nobody is complaining, if you’re using it in your individual way and there’s no harm in it, then there’s no problem.