Mulatu Astatke

Monk One

Hi everybody, welcome back. It’s a rare honor and privilege to welcome our guest. He’s currently residing in Boston where he’s received a prestigious fellowship at Harvard University. The man to my left is a national treasure of Ethiopia, Mr Mulatu Astatke.

[applause]

Mulatu Astatke

Thank you, thank you.

Monk One

It’s an absolute privilege to be here in his presence. He’s been so kind as to bring along a whole wealth of video and musical treasures for us to take a look at. The first thing we’re going to watch before we start talking is something he brought to illustrate aspects of Ethiopian music and dance culture you may or may not be familiar with.

Mulatu Astatke

Thank you for the welcome. How many of you know Ethiopia here? OK, very few. These films are going to feature our music and dance and customs. I want you just to relax and see these videos, so you can be better familiarized with our culture and music. As you know, Ethiopia is a country that’s culturally very rich. There are about 80 different languages spoken and maybe, further to our discussion, we can figure out what Ethiopia has contributed to the development of art and music to the world. I want you just to relax and feel Ethiopia from the beginning, then we will continue. Thank you.

[applause / video starts]

This film was taken in Japan where I’ve toured. I have a cultural group who were visiting Japan and the south of Japan. This film was taken in Fukuoka. This is the music from Walu, in the center of Ethiopia.

[new video]

The movements usually differ from the different tribes of Ethiopia. So, this is the Walu dance movement. In the northern part of Ethiopia, the dance movement is from the shoulders up.

It’s interesting watching this cultural music, the dance, the movement, the culture. Most of the developments these days, the movements and the sounds are taken from these people. Musicians or people who are interested in researching the history of the music should listen to the roots of music, they should concentrate on the roots. That’s where everything is happening. Later in our discussion we’ll see those people from the bushes dance. I’ve got great respect for them. It’s nice to look back at those people and get something from them as well. I feel it’s so great because they are contributors, as far as musical instruments are concerned, and later we’ll see how people from the bushes created the diminished scales. When we learn here how Charlie Parker, Debussy and Bach were using these scales. We will discuss about this later on.

Now, what you’re watching in the film is from Tigray, to the north of Ethiopia. This is how the music is, usually in a 5/4 rhythm. We have very complicated rhythms also in Ethiopia. So, you see every weekend people dance in different costumes and using different instruments as well. That’s what makes Ethiopia culturally a very rich country. Now you’re watching music from Tigray.

Probably, the moonwalk of Michael Jackson is here as well [laughs].

[New video]

That was from the north of Ethiopia, from Tigray. I don’t know what you feel, do you want to continue watching more of Ethiopia, or shall we stop this and start discussing other situations?

Monk One

I want to also let everybody know they can ask questions in the midst of this, if you want clarification. No need to wait until the end and save it all up, because there’s a lot of this that’s new to everybody. So, if there is something you need clarification on, ask away, don’t feel shy. I have a question about what we were watching. Those are considered traditional dance forms from different areas in Ethiopia, is that right?

Mulatu Astatke

This music has developed. In earlier times, we never had a cultural group formed in this way. Usually, the people, the musicians, the dancers, used to play individually – they never had a chance to form a group and play. What happened was, during the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, people who were so attached to the country and wanted to fight for it, organized a place called Hagir Fikir Theatre of Ethiopia.

Then later, that became a cultural center. There was one Ethiopian at that time – a violin player – who had experience of reading music, so he tried to develop a cultural group. That’s how we started. That was the first stage of cultural music, coming together as a group. Then, after a few years, that starts developing and our instruments start developing by using pick-ups. Before those instruments didn’t have pick-ups, and if you take an instrument like the krar, the one with the strings built, it was built with [animal] gut and didn’t have a pick-up. So, it was hard for an organized orchestra to play because you can’t hear it. So, the development came from using a pick-up so everybody can be heard and an audience can hear it.

Monk One

So, an electric pick-up was added to the acoustic instruments so they can be amplified.

Mulatu Astatke

Excellent. So, that’s what you see here – we use pick-ups for these instruments. That’s how it sounded. So, that was the second development to our culture.

So, do we have any more questions?

Audience member

It’s not directly about the music, but the dancing. How do the eyes and facial expressions relate to the music? Is it like a narrative? Where does it come from and what does it mean?

Mulatu Astatke

A lot of different dances, music and hairstyles come from the different cultures of Ethiopia. Sometimes it depends. If the dancers are playing weddings, for example, sometimes you see happier faces, different kinds of movement. But, actually, it depends how the situation is. There are also developments to the dances. Probably, what you see here is the developed one of the Ethiopian cultural dances. There are the roots dancers in different parts of Ethiopia. The way they dance and what they dance is a bit different. That one is more traditional and more to the roots. But what you see here has another development. Also, we have choreographers who come up with different ideas and probably tell them to move in different ways, and this and that. So, these are the developed ones, but later we’ll see the traditional ones as well.

Monk One

Can you talk a bit about the cultural center you said was established in the mid-’30s. How did this influence popular music? What was the relationship between the cultural center for music and theatre and other forms of popular music, or were they one and the same at that time?

Mulatu Astatke

Actually, both went in different directions. I think the Emperor [Haile Selassie I ] about 50 or 60 years ago had traveled to Europe. There were no European instruments in Ethiopia at that time, so he was greeted by military marching bands and went to different theatres, saw some operas and those more developed art works. He was thrilled by what he’d seen, so when he comes back he thinks, “Why don’t we have it here as well?” So, he got some Armenians, who lived in Ethiopia and knew music, and ordered them to bring European instruments and teach in Ethiopia. So, that’s how our modern music movement starts. The culture has different directions and modern music has different directions.

After that, the formal marching bands developed later into big bands, using four trumpets, four trombones, five saxophones and rhythm sections. So, we had a theatre called the Haile Selassie I Theatre and somehow he employed a European to come over and become director of that theatre. He was a great musical composer and arranger by the name of [inaudible], so he formed this big band and started to teach music. That’s how our modern music started in Ethiopia. Even though he was a good teacher, he could also write, arrange and conduct.

Those musicians were studying music from stock arrangements, and when we start talking about jazz, even in the stock arrangements, there is a part where you must solo, but there was no jazz soloist at that time. They just read the parts and that was it.

Then, after a while, modern music and nightclubs started to flourish in Ethiopia and we used to have small groups teaching themselves somehow and playing more popular modern music, but lots of jazz. When we’re talking about jazz, it’s after I finished at Berklee, Boston. In fact, I was the first African to be enrolled at Berklee College in Boston. That was in ’58 when it was the Schillinger School. So, I learned there about jazz arrangements as a vibraphone player. I travelled to New York, too, with my own group, the Ethiopian Quintet. We played Latin jazz, jazz and so on in New York.

So, after I went back home we started this movement called “Ethio-jazz”, which I had started in New York. New York in 1966 was very interesting – it was with me and Hugh Masekela and Fela [Kuti] from Nigeria. There we were in 1966, struggling and trying to put Africa in the modern concept of jazz music. I had different directions, Hugh had different directions and Fela had different directions to that music. So, it was interesting.

This is what happened after 30 or 40 years for Ethio-jazz to be recognized: probably, you’ve heard of a film called Broken Flowers. My music was featured on this film. Ethio-Jazz is now known all over the world, we’re in The New York Times and all over the place. That’s our development in modern music.

Monk One

I wonder if you could talk about how you personally became involved in music. We were speaking about when you were a child in Ethiopia and there wasn’t a lot of opportunity to study music in schools. You studied in England as a boy, can you talk about how that influenced you?

Mulatu Astatke

I’ve been one of the luckiest men, I think. In most parts of the third-world countries music and art aren’t accepted like other subjects, like physics, chemistry or whatever. This is one of our great problems in Ethiopia and other Third World countries. In most of the other countries, music and dance are taught in kindergarten from the earliest age, which is great. Imagine how many great talents we lose because of that – you don’t even get a chance to know yourself, unless they teach you or give you the chance.

Most developed countries, like Europe and America, they give a chance to a person to know themselves. That is a problem in Africa. So, me, I was lucky because I had a chance to go to high school in England, in North Wales, even though I didn’t know anything about my talents. My elementary schooling was in Ethiopia… I think I wanted to become an aeronautical engineer, because I didn’t know myself. I started knowing myself after I arrived in North Wales, at Lindisfarne College. I had fantastic music teachers, art teachers and dance teachers. So, music and art were included in our curriculum. So, I was playing a trumpet and finally ended up playing a clarinet. This teacher was really a fan of my talent, told me I had a great talent and I should continue in music. Imagine not having the chance to know yourself – it’s really very bad. So, I got the chance and I am what I am because I had the chance to find myself. This is how I became a musician.

Monk One

What kind of music were you excited about at that time, when you were just starting your musical studies? You were in England, what was exciting for you at that time?

Mulatu Astatke

Well, after I finished high school I went to classical school, called Trinity College of Music in London, even though I was very much interested in developing our music. Ethiopia was not very well-known in music at that time, it was like 30 or 40 years ago, nobody knew about Ethiopian musicians then. I remember most of the West African musicians in London, from Ghana, Nigeria and so on, they were beautifully promoting their music. I was really mad and jealous about that because our music hadn’t been heard anywhere. So, I decided to really listen more, work more on our Ethiopian music. I remember I had one Trinidadian, very well-known musician, so I made him sing Ethiopian songs. Somehow, we organized the band in London as well. That’s what I was interested in, promoting our music and making sense of our music, because there was nothing much happening at home either.

Monk One

So, it’s definitely been a focus of your life, this incorporating of traditional Ethiopian themes, but also introducing a lot of new elements and orchestrations into traditional Ethiopian music. I guess, your time in London, seeing the people from Ghana and Nigeria doing that strong must have been an inspiration for you in your struggle to bring Ethiopian music to a wider audience.

Mulatu Astatke

I heard great music from Nigerians and Ghanaians in England. I was also very close with Ronnie Scott, who had a famous club [in London], and also Tubby Hayes, who was a great jazz musician. I was inspired by him, because he used to play vibes and saxophone. That was when I was in London. So, when I got into Berklee, it was with the aim of learning and improving my music. London was my inspiration at the beginning.

Monk One

As you say, from London you got into Berklee, Boston. What made you choose Berklee, and what were you excited about learning once you got there?

Mulatu Astatke

You know, the history of jazz music and the African contribution to that music is over 50 to 60%. As an African I’ve [got] a responsibility to research and give a place for what Africa has contributed. At Berklee, I learned a lot and I met great musicians there also. That’s where I created what we call Ethio-jazz music and learned the history of the Africans with one of the most developed musics of the world, who nobody seems to know very much about. Nobody thinks to do much research or look at their contribution. So, I thought if I really make a study and do some research, somehow our contribution would be realized and given its place in the world. That was it, really.

Monk One

Listening to popular music at the time, say Latin music, what kind of similarities did you notice between the music of your country and what was going on there?

Mulatu Astatke

There’s a great connection between Latin and African music. If you listen to the rhythm of Nigeria, Ghana, Senegal and also some of the eastern parts of Africa, the rhythm is there. What Cubans play is also being played in Africa. I’ll give you an example: I had to go to Cuba once, and my first question was to show me where the first African landed. So, they gave me the chance to go there, so I sat there and they started playing and dancing. The language was only Spanish but the rhythms, the movements, everything was what I’d seen in West Africa.

If you had a drummer coming from West Africa, the Cubans could just count one-two-three-four, they could just play straight. These are the rhythms and the music I’ve heard there; same with the dancers. I had a lot of discussions with dancers and the drummers, so there’s a lot of connections between Latin and African music. Probably what the difference is, is what we call the montunos, that is the repetitive sounds in Latin music, which differs from African. Maybe, if you go eastern Africa, to Swahili music, there are some similarities, but in Swahili music there is what we call the “kikareke”, which is equivalent to mambo one and mambo two in Latin jazz. What happens is, in mambo one the music tends to go faster, more exciting. In kikareke it tends to go slower… When I think of African music and Latin there’s not much difference. Of course, there was a lot of development in Latin jazz, maybe because of their closeness to America and the number of Cubans in New York listening to more jazz. So, it developed faster than most African music.

Monk One

I believe the first recordings you made were entitled Afro Latin Soul, and, in these recordings, you incorporated elements of the modern Latin sounds you were hearing with Ethiopian melodies and scales. Is that correct?

Mulatu Astatke

Yeah. As I was explaining before, when I think of the rhythms, I think of Latin rhythms being an African arrangement. The only thing in my arrangement that was close to Latin was the “montunos”, but mine and Ethiopian music is usually based on five tones. So, my music was five against 12. It’s not always easy to merge these two scales – you have to be very careful, know your voicings, your chord progressions. I hear some music in five-tone [pentatonic] scales and sometimes it doesn’t merge together. So, what I did was to find ways to merge the five against 12 with nice chord progressions and voices. That’s how my music became successful, because it doesn’t lose the flavor of the five tones.

Monk One

For those, who aren’t familiar with music theory, can you explain what you mean by a five-tone scale versus a 12-tone scale?

Mulatu Astatke

Most of our music now is based on five tone scales. We have four different modes where we write our melodies. We have what we call “tizita”, where you take it on C, D, E, then you have G, A. Those are the five tones and we call it the tizita scale. Actually, they are used a lot by jazz musicians these days. Then you have the minor ones: C, D, E-flat, then G, A-flat, then B, which make very interesting scales.

Monk One

So, this is basically dividing an octave…

Mulatu Astatke

No, it’s like a major second, a third, minor third.

Monk One

But your moving from C to C with five steps as opposed to the ‘do-re-mi-fa-so’ twelve steps.

Mulatu Astatke

Yes, you’re five out from the major scales. We have another one called “bati”, which is very interesting as well, which goes C, E, F, G, B and C. So, that’s very interesting, it’s called bati, makes nice sounds. Then you have the bati minor, which goes C, E-flat, F, G and B-flat. That’s the minor bati. Then we have anchi hoye. Anchi hoye is based like C, D, not E, then you go to F, G, A, then C. Very interesting. Then we have another one called anchi hoye. A lot of jazz musicians love these scales. This one goes C, D-flat, F, G-flat, then A. So, we have a minor of that, too, which goes C, D-flat, F, G, A-flat, then C. These are the four different modes we use to compose our music. This is what I was working on, using different progressions and voicings to these scales. The songs you heard on the screen were based on these scales.

Monk One

So, when you first recorded your own music your challenge was to incorporate these traditional modes with 12-tone music. One of the things you added, as you mentioned, was the montuno piano riff. I’d like to play something from one of those original records that illustrates that.

Mulatu Astatke

The montunos maybe.

(music: Mulatu Astatke – “I Faram Gami I Faram”)

Mulatu Astatke

So, this was done about 30 years ago in New York. I was talking about the merging of the 12 and five. This is how the five tone-scale is being backed by the montunos, but the flavor is still there – that’s what makes it very interesting. It’s very Ethiopian how the montuno is used, and the five scales that we’re using. That was from the bati scale. We used that so nicely, it was a nice approach, and that’s what makes Ethio-jazz very interesting.

Monk One

Are these scales used to convey different emotions or for specific circumstances?

Mulatu Astatke

No, but what the word is saying is about the youth. The youth isn’t scared of anything, they usually move forward, especially in the quiet part. So, that’s what that was saying.

Monk One

Who were the musicians on this record? You mentioned it was recorded in New York – was it difficult to find the musicians to record the music?

Mulatu Astatke

I had this group of mine called the Ethiopian Quintet, African-American friends, some Latino guys… so it was a combination of Ethiopian, Latin and African-Americans.

Monk One

I noticed the guy was singing in Spanish at one point of the song, while the chorus was in Ethiopian.

Mulatu Astatke

And also, there weren’t many Ethiopian musicians in America 35 years ago. Now there are plenty. I wish I had an Ethiopian singer singing that because it would blend beautifully with the arrangements, but it was sung in Latin and the lyrics were translated to him in Spanish. That was it, it was a good combination. Not bad at all!

Monk One

It sounded pretty good to me. An interesting thing, speaking of vocalists, is that after recording these records you traveled back to Addis and the next records you recorded there were instrumental music. Is that right?

Mulatu Astatke

Yes.

Monk One

As I understand it, it was pretty unusual at that time to have a whole instrumental record. Most of the music was really vocal-based.

Mulatu Astatke

Yeah, but usually, when you try something new there are problems and difficulties. It wasn’t easy and I had a lot of problems to release this music. I also used one very interesting instrument, the bagena with ten strings, which is usually used in church music. So, I remember once there was a very famous playwright in Ethiopia and this very well-known priest who killed himself for what he believed. So, this playwright wrote a play about this priest. By using the bagena, I wrote some nice jazz arrangements for the piano and other instruments backing this instrument. So, we had a concert and I heard people telling me to get off the stage. I’ll remember that always. It was a big struggle, I wouldn’t stop, I just kept on doing my Ethio-jazz, I was writing more for the begenas, just fighting everybody. So, finally it worked and no one says “get of”’, now it’s just standing ovations. So, it was always struggling and fighting for what you believe in, which is beautiful. Ethio- jazz, to reach the standard it is now, of course, because of Broken Flowers and before that in New York as well, is great. So, I fought and struggled with it, but thank God, no problems now.

Audience member

I don’t know anything about jazz harmony, but the track you played from beginning to end, it stayed in the same key. When it comes to modulate or transition, how do you change the chords in the song?

Mulatu Astatke

I understand what you mean. There are two ways of approaching these modes. There are ways of using two or three of these modes by changing scales. The other way is on this piece, it’s a montuno. In Latin music, there’s usually only one or two chords in a montuno, so this one used only two changes. But there are other pieces that have a lot of changes, jazz changes. But to me, it’s not exactly jazz changes, because I have to use a different approach to it. Sometimes, I use classical chords so it does lose the five-tone feeling. Sometimes, I use progressions, I can go to four, one, then flat five, six, one. This progression is better for these scales. So, what you heard is a normal change. Even those chords are difficult to approach without losing the feeling. So mostly, it’s done by using C, D-flat, then C, A -flat, C on top, then to D-flat and back. So, I have the C-flat movement, which really blends beautifully, sounds really nice.

Monk One

So, when you returned to Addis and you were playing the music, besides the acceptance, were there other problems you faced? Were instruments widely available? What sort of bands were playing? Did you have a good pool of musicians to choose from?

Mulatu Astatke

No, I had to train musicians. And as far as instruments were concerned, it’s very difficult, because the taxes on those instruments meant that a lot of musicians couldn’t afford to buy them. That’s a really difficult problem for musicians in Africa. It’s not only music, even sports are taxed so high. It’s so hard to buy instruments, or things like sports shoes, it’s quite expensive. Also, there’s the problem of losing talents, because it’s not only the school problem, but the instruments are so expensive you can’t afford to buy them. So, that was one of the difficulties; not enough instruments, not enough trained musicians, so I had to train a lot myself. But somehow I managed.

Monk One

You also brought back with you from your travels some instruments that had never been introduced into Ethiopia before…

Mulatu Astatke

Yes, vibes is not known well in Africa, even though it’s found in West Africa. It has different techniques and different names, but it’s a traditional instrument, which is very similar to a marimba. Vibraphone is the development of those instruments. It’s very strange to Ethiopia, also the Hammond organ and conga drums. We had drums, but conga drums are a different shape. These were introduced when I went back home with these instruments and somehow changed the arrangements. Also, there weren’t many counterpoints to work with these arrangements, so I used a lot of counterpoints in the melodies. Also, the military band used the canon form, which is like when someone says something and someone else repeats, that’s what we call canon. We used a lot of them. My music was using a lot of high-tension chords, like 13 flat fives, and I used a lot of counterpoints to those melodies, which made it different to the others.

Monk One

What was the popular music scene like at that time? What were people going out and dancing to? Were there nightclubs? Where did people go and what were they listening to?

Mulatu Astatke

There were a lot of different types of music. We had radio stations, TV stations. They played a lot of American music, European music, they played a few jazz and a very little classical. At that time, the popular music was cha-cha-cha and mambos — and a few James Brown things, he was so popular.

Monk One

Did you perform in nightclubs meant for dancing? What types of venues did you play?

Mulatu Astatke

I had a very nice group called the All Stars, and later one called the Ethio Stars. The one called All Stars was a very popular and we travelled quite a lot, staying at different Sheraton hotels. We played in the Gulf areas, like Abu Dhabi, Dubai, Djibouti and Sanaa. They had the Sheraton hotel chains there and my group used to play there.

Monk One

At this point your music was becoming more accepted and popular in Ethiopia?

Mulatu Astatke

Yes, certainly. I did a lot of recording for Phillips Ethiopia. There was no CD at that time so we did cassettes and LPs. I did them for Philips and another company called Amha, who produced 45s. So, I did quite a lot of that and my music became accepted and popular, the band became really good. Then I moved to different parts of the world, coming back to America. So, I left the band, which is not there any more. We played some nice music, in a few different clubs, played weddings, things like that.

Monk One

Around this time, maybe the late’60s or maybe the early’70s, the Duke Ellington Orchestra toured Africa. Did you have a chance to see that?

Mulatu Astatke

That was really a great moment. Duke came to Ethiopia for about four or five days and I received his call. He stayed at the Hilton. I wrote one arrangement for Duke’s band and that was my great moment. It wasn’t for money; it was for respect. We learned off his music when we were at Berklee, so that was really great for me to write an arrangement for Duke’s band and for it to be performed in Ethiopia. He said, “I never expected this from an African.” That was a great comment, I have great respect for him.

Monk One

What did he mean by saying he wouldn’t expect that from an African?

Mulatu Astatke

It was a very nice experimental work. I used three Ethiopian modes for the trumpet section and combined the three together for the arrangement and did some beautiful blending. That’s what surprised him, I think, he wasn’t expecting that sort of sound. He really loved it.

Monk One

Great. I know you’ve brought some more video for us to watch, including some early video of you experimenting with a combination of Western instruments and Ethiopian modes. Maybe we can watch that and you can tell us what it’s about.

Mulatu Astatke

This second film is to me so important, and any musicians here, I want you to listen. This is what I was talking about, the diminished scales. This is why I always say we have to give respect to the people in the bush because they are our sources, they are the people who have given so many instruments, so many nice sounds to us. I usually travel out [in] Ethiopia for research, and I found these people playing diminished scales. So, I took this film to Berklee to show the head of the jazz composition department. I said, “These people are [before] Debussy or Charlie Parker?” I said, “I just want to know because I research.” He was so confused; he couldn’t answer the question [laughs].

I have very great respect for these people. As musicians, we should go back, all the way back, because you’ll always find something very interesting. On this video, you’re going to see how these people use five-tone- scales. I was just wondering how they can hear these and how they created the scales. There are three parts I want you to watch.

One is them being natural, themselves. The next part will be developing those people with the instrument called the mina with three other tribes. There are three tribes, one is called Aari, which uses just six chords, and another uses instruments like trumpets. One is like a baritone sax, all in bamboo, different sizes. The third will be the orchestra and how it is developed in our concert. There are three developments. I’d like to have your comment later. This is from southern Ethiopia, an instrument called the mina.

[video starts]

This is how the instrument looks. The mina is the first one.

Monk One

Are they improvising or do they have specific parts?

Mulatu Astatke

They have a part where each one plays. So, it’s one after the other, keeping the rhythms. They can play one melody only, the diminished scales. They love this melody so much – they dance and drink and have festivals to it. You can see small kids playing this. This instrument will never die. You give it to your son when they are four or five years old, so they it will never die.

See the small one there? He learns from the father.

Monk One

Can the children choose what size they play or do they play what the father played?

Mulatu Astatke

Usually what the father plays, because they teach them. Everybody in the area plays it, everyone.

Monk One

So, if you specialize in, say, the low note, is that then your instrument? Can you switch around?

Mulatu Astatke

Sometimes, but usually they just do one. If you don’t like the small one, you can switch to the big one. They can only play one tune. They’ve done some experimental work in Harvard University to explore how this instrument could be developed. There are two or three ways we’re working on now and lots on the krar, as well.

In the next part, you’re going to see how this instrument can be played combined with guitars and pianos.

We’re planning to build small microphones to put inside the instruments. The other way would be to build three or four holes inside so they can play three or four melodies. Now they can only play one, and that’s it.

The second part of it is how I explained it.

[New video]

This next one is from the Ari tribes, they play jazz. These are very interesting tribes. Imagine how they can build jazz. That’s why we should respect them, they are scientists in sound. Probably in other areas you [could not] find these sounds. I have great respect for them. As we go around, you’ll find the [instrument] that sounds like a baritone sax and the one that sounds like a trumpet.

[Video plays]

Now other tribe has come in. Look at these very interesting instruments. This is the rhythm of the trumpet. The long ones sound like a baritone sax.

[Applause]

So, from this music, I hope you have learned about our scientists, what we call people from the bushes. It’s so great because most of the instruments we hear resemble trumpets, baritone saxes. You hear all kinds of different sounds. It’s probably your first experience of seeing these kinds of instruments. Some of you maybe go to different museums, maybe you’d find them in New York, maybe London. Some of these instruments are there for researchers. This is how they sound. Most of the instruments you see can only play one note, one melody, that’s all. I hope before leaving Harvard we come up with something very interesting to develop these instruments. If you have any questions about these instruments, their contributions…

Audience member

On the piece you wrote, the western instruments and those from Ethiopia sounded quite in harmony. Which scale did you use for the bass?

Mulatu Astatke

There are actually on the diminished scales. So, if you start at the beginning, diminish from G, go whole, half, whole, half, whole, half, then you get these scales. This is based in G.

Audience member

But I don’t believe African people were listening to western tone scales when they developed these instruments. So, do you think our western music is coming from those tone scales rather than the other way around?

Mulatu Astatke

That’s a very good question and it’s what makes this music very interesting. Since these people come to this earth, they created this, then development comes. I don’t know who was first, I don’t know who started building these scales. But we studied jazz groups and different music schools, like Debussy, more complex composers, Bach, Charlie Parker, these people who were using this. When Charlie created modern jazz he used these scales.

So, that’s what we learn. But how where and what, that’s what we’re trying to find out now. If these instruments were the first, then we say great for Ethiopia, great contribution to the world of music. That’s what we’re trying to do.

Audience member

You talked about developing these pipes and flutes, and what you said about putting pick-ups in them reminds me of the Congotronics movement that’s been happening over the past few years, in which some groups have been putting pick-ups on mbiras and kalimbas. I was wondering whether, within Africa, people are aware of these regional differences and developments in music, if people in Ethiopia are aware of what’s happening in the Congo or Mozambique or wherever.

Mulatu Astatke

That’s also a nice question. Maybe you’ve heard of the Mozart 250 Years in Vienna. I went to Zimbabwe – and we also have an mbira in Ethiopia, but a different type of mbira we call the tom, which you find in the Gambella regions. I had a chance to travel to Zimbabwe. In Zimbabwe it is called the mbira, which is an entirely different type of African piano. You have the bass in this hand and they play the top notes of the piano there. In my experience, of all African instruments, the mbira is the easiest to develop, because you can easily tune it into a piano.

So, what I did was get seven mbira players. I was with Peter Sellars – not the actor, but the one who does operas – I was in Peter Sellars productions in Vienna for the opening of the Mozart 250 years. I said this would be a good present for Mozart, an African piano.

I went to this group in Vienna, and of course they have pick-ups on it, these are good pianos. I remember playing the piano and the vibe with the mbira bass player, which sounds like a Mexican bass. With the acoustic Mexican guitars, sometimes I hear bass when I play. We have contacts with some of the African musicians who try to develop things like that, so I have these friends in Zimbabwe where they try to develop the mbira.

So, I went to Vienna and that concert was really fantastic; people came there and the technique was different, we tuned it to the vibes and we did something together with mbiras and vibes. And it blended so nice. We have contacts, but not more African musicians exploring and doing research.

This mina, the one you’ve just heard, is very interesting, because I don’t know how these people managed to hear and create these sophisticated scales. It’s not easy. I’m following it up and trying to work out how they developed these instruments. There are two ways, I’m thinking: one, acoustically, by putting in a few more holes in it, and the other by putting a pick-up inside and using computers for harmonies and things. You can do it through computers and small mics. Hopefully, we’ll come up with something.

But there are some really great African instruments which can be developed. Those tribes contributed to more developed instruments, I think. So, the only way we can prove this is to research and research. I hope that answers your question.

Audience member

I wanted to ask you about your transition from being in Africa with a more spiritual connection to the music into a European classical training at such an age. How did you handle that, or did it affect you at all?

Mulatu Astatke

Most of these instruments you see from different countries have also been developed and they’re doing beautiful things on them. I know how our instruments worked backwards. So, I have this goal: why can’t this instrument be played like a piano? So, the transition between the two doesn’t affect me so much because I have this aim of improving the instrument, improving the players… from that I’ve learned to go back and teach, for them to study. This transition never affected me because I have goals to go forward. Every day, I learn something. Then you look back home and say, “How can I do this there?” So, it’s a beautiful and interesting life. I always keep on going.

Monk One

You mentioned some of the unique instruments. There’s a video you brought with footage of you playing the electric piano along with some traditional instruments like the krar, I think it’s called. I wonder if we could watch that.

Mulatu Astatke

I’ve been working on this at Harvard as well, it’s a great challenge because it only plays five tones and four modes. So, I was working on it, trying to upgrade it to 12-tone music. I upgraded the string, adding more strings without losing the shape and the playing techniques. I can only play melodies with no accident, which means I tune up once and you can play something without accidents. The problem is, if there’s an accident, that’s the great challenge. The experiment was like 60-65% [successful]l. It was OK, but not 100%.

So, how would I manage to play 12-tone music without changing the shape of it? We’re working now to play on mechanical machines where we only use the top part for the tuning. This instrument, when you’re only playing one melody in that mode, when you go the second mode you have to stop and retune. We found a way, just playing four modes just by touching a knob. That we managed: you press a knob, it changed modes. But the real challenge is how to play 12-tone, that’s what we’re really working on, to computerize it and how to expand the notes. We’re working on that now. I want you to see my experimental work – “Never On A Sunday” – with a krar.

(music: Mulatu Astatke – “Never On A Sunday”)

Mulatu Astatke

This is also another very interesting tribe [brief cut to video]. So, if we manage to develop this [instrument] I think it would be great. Most of the Ethiopian musicians are going over to the guitar, because with these instruments they get stuck, they cannot go any further than five tones. We’re trying to develop this so we can play whatever the guitar does. That’s what we’re trying to do now.

[Video starts]

This is “Guantanamera” on the krar.

[music: Mulatu Astatke – “Guantanamera” / applause]

Mulatu Astatke

So most youngsters here are probably in the music business, and you’re exploring, researching, trying to do something, it’s very nice. This kind of work will probably make you go back in again, do a lot of research and come up with something new. So if you have any questions on that, we can discuss them.

Monk One

You also host a radio program in Ethiopia?

Mulatu Astatke

Yes, I’ve had a show with a famous station for seven years now. They play jazz, Latin, African, classical music and World and Ethiopian music. The idea of the radio station was to teach people music, so they could grow familiar with music from elsewhere in the world. It was more educational programming than entertainment, so we talked more about the differences between composers and how classical music is put together, the forms. We talked about jazz developments and its contributions, and also world music. I think it has educated a lot of people in the country.

Monk One

What kind of reaction have you gotten from listeners?

Mulatu Astatke

Always when you start something you have problems, especially with jazz, which is really new to the ears for them. The soloing part of jazz, they just don’t understand that at all. They think everybody just gets up and blows whatever he likes [laughs]. So, I have to explain what I want about changes, what the improviser does, the musical forms, this and that. It took me quite a while but I managed to somehow get a lot of listeners to love jazz. Even the classical music, I was so surprised. A lot of people don’t understand classical music, because you need the culture, you need the education to understand and follow it. Since most third-world countries don’t have education in music, education in high schools, elementary schools, it was very difficult at the beginning. But after three or four years we had a good audience. Four years, six years, fantastic. I was really very encouraged because I was educating a lot of people. The national radio stations stop at about 11 o’clock in the evening, but mine goes up to 12. So five, six, seven million people a day listen to my program. It finally became very successful and I’ve educated a lot of people with it.

Monk One

So now you’ve received this fellowship and you’re staying in Cambridge, at Harvard… what particular projects do you hope to accomplish? Are you staying there for a year?

Mulatu Astatke

I’m going to be there for one year and I’m writing a book on what Ethiopia has contributed to the development of art. We haven’t talked about church music and its contributions and I’m also writing an opera, which is based on music made in 380 AD by our great composer Saint Yared. There is this conducting stick, which was used in the 380s, but there was no symphony orchestra.

The Sunday-morning ceremony usually takes about three hours, so the priest uses the stick to rest on it sometimes, and also to conduct music, especially in feast times. So that movement, which you’ve probably seen in the military band drum majors, about 70% of that movement is found on this conducting stick. So it’s like the diminished scales.

Also, the similarity to the conductors of the symphony orchestra, only the position differs. If you put the conducting stick like this [holds finger in front of nose], it’s similar almost to that one. If you have the time I can show you that movement a little bit. This opera I’m doing is going to be conducted with this stick, so I’m using a string quartet plus two electronic synthesizers. That’s one thing I’m working on, plus development of the krar, so I’m involved in three projects, plus I’m lecturing. So I meet very interesting people, a lot of scientists, great professionals. Every day we have meetings, present papers and discuss the papers.

[Video starts]

So this is how we conduct. We’re trying to find out, since there was no symphony orchestra in 380 AD, what is what, what we have learned from each other [gets video to the correct place]. This is our church, which is built out of one stone, the church called Lalibela, it is so beautiful. It’s built from one big stone with beautiful architecture.

Monk One

Great, I’d like to give anyone else a chance to speak up if they’ve got something to ask. We’re going to listen to a bit more of some of your Ethio-jazz as we’re making our way out. I’d like to thank you very much for taking the time.

[Applause]

Mulatu Astatke

Thank you, thank you.