Santa Cecilia Orchestra

Emma Warren

We have the Orchestra de Santa Cecilia here. They are going to play some music and they are going to talk to us as well. So here we are, the Orchestra of Santa Cecilia.

Francesco Storino

Hello, everybody. We are the education staff of Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia. Accademia Nazionale di Santa Cecilia is one of the most ancient music institutions all over the world. It has been founded in the 16th century, in Rome, and it’s five hundred years it brings music to people. Before we speak, I prefer we play. Let’s hear a little music, and let me introduce my friend and colleague, Gregorio, playing. [applause] Yes, please. Do you know what instrument is this?

Audience member

French horn.

Francesco Storino

Not at all.

Audience member

Tuba.

Francesco Storino

Tuba, yeah. It’s basso tuba, it’s a tuba. It’s a fascinating instrument. I don’t want to speak. Please, Gregorio, play for us.

(music: Gregorio Mazzarese – live tuba performance)

What Gregorio played for us is a great minuet by Johann Sebastian Bach. It’s Baroque music. It’s music that’s four hundred years ago. Now, let me introduce our beauty, Laura, pianist. For a pianist, what better to play than Chopin?

(music: Laura De Mariassevich – live piano performance)

Great. Now, let’s introduce myself. I am Francesco, I play the cello. And since I am very arrogant, I want to introduce myself playing a piece written by myself. Its name is “Intrada.”

(music: Francesco Storino – live cello performance of “Intrada”)

Oh, so, I... Ah, OK, here you are. I need somebody, help! [fiddling with mic] OK, thank you. So, now, we have introduced to you very different kinds of instruments. I guess for many of you, a classical concert may be quite a new experience. Is it?

Audience member

No.

Francesco Storino

Not at all? OK, I’m very happy with this. If it isn’t, we will speak in a more profound way. First of all, I would like Gregorio to explain to us how a brass instrument works, because it’s very interesting.

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK, this is a tuba. This is a brass instrument, probably you know other brass instrument, somebody had a mistake with this instrument, call him a French horn. OK, all brass instrument are French horn, trombone, trumpet. The trombone, you remember, is one that you can probably see playing this way [mimics trombone slide]. The similar characteristic of these instrument that they are all made by brass, by a metal, yellow metal called brass. The function of this instrument are very simple. This one is only a tube. This is not this instrument that make the sound. The only part in which we can make the sound is this one [holds up mouthpiece]. All the rest of the instrument is only tube that amplificate the sound that you form, you create in this mouthpiece. The similar characteristic of all brass instrument is that they are a tube, they have a mouthpiece, they have some finger mechanism to make the tube longer and shorter. You must see that this position, this finger, this mechanism, is not...

Francesco Storino

Don’t forget them.

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK. You see that we have also in the trumpet, you see three mechanisms. Why? Don’t ask me why. OK, the sound in the tuba and in all brass instrument is make in this one, just like this. [blows through mouthpiece] Yes, you must imagine that all my life, I make this one. All the brass instrument in this life make all the boos buzzing in the mouthpiece. The sound of the mouthpiece is amplificated by the tuba this way. I show you. Just similar to the electronic device. Sometimes you have the device that produce the sound, and another device that amplificate the sound, is all electronical. But you have the master that you make by the computer by other device, and then you have the amplification, that this is one. The difference from a brass instrument and electronic instrument, also between the other instrument that you see this afternoon with us, is they are only acoustic instrument. We have no electronic device that amplificate the sound. Why we have only four fingers? Because you know that the notes that we can produce are a lot. Because this is not ... We have not the report from one note, one fingers, but a lot of note with one position. I want to explain. If I don’t push anything, I can make not only one note, but a lot of note. If I push one finger, I have the same series of note, but just a half tone lower. You see, this is the first series. [plays tuba] One finger. The tube became longer and longer, and you can make the series of note, not only one note, lower, lower, lower. Mixing up one note from one series and mix another from that, you can have all the grade of the scale. This is the reason for, because all the brass instrument, trumpet, trombone, have only seven position, because mixing up one, but you can push two together, have all the note. Another characteristic of a tuba is the lower of the bass instrument. The instrument make a note more in the bass register of the scale. This is, the tuba is one of the younger of the brass section, because it was created only in the last centuries. Why? Because trumpet, you can find a trumpet also in the medieval period. But this instrument was the younger because it was technically difficult to make up a tuba, and then because the ancient instrument, they have not a very big sound. So they don’t need, in the lower register, a very big sound from a brass instrument. But from the last century, the sound in a live electronic device, the sound of the orchestra, the sound of the music, became bigger and bigger and bigger, until we found the electronical device that permit to have a big sound. It’s not breaking, but from eighteenth century, music needed more power. More power. It begin for this reason, born, tuba. Also the contrabass. You see the contrabass that my friend Storino explained, Francesco explained about the string. Most of the contrabasses became bigger, because they needed more sound, the orchestra became larger. In the eighteenth century orchestra we have twenty string, then became thirty, forty, fifty. At the beginning of the twentieth century, we have one hundred, and more and more and more. Mahler writes a symphony for one thousand instrument.

Audeince member

Is it usual that in an orchestra, there are two or three tubas playing?

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK, always, the most, ninety percent of the piece of the orchestra in which you found a tuba, there is only one tuba. There is some piece, especially for Berlioz, especially for Strauss.

Francesco Storino

Mahler, too.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Mahler, not. I don’t remember Mahler with two tuba. Strauss and Berlioz, we need two tuba.

Audience member

Stravinsky.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Stravinsky. Stravinsky, no, two tuba.

Francesco Storino

Maybe Wagner.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Ah, so, Rite of Spring, yes, Rite of Spring have two tuba, yes. The reason, when we need to create attention, then we speak about attention.

Audience member

Some 19th-century composers actually added a lot of low instruments in their works, and they needed a lot of instruments like double basses and tubas, maybe. Wagner. Schoenberg also.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Two reasons in which they employ bass instruments. Not only bass brass, but also bass strings, because they needed two situations. The first was what I say before, that they need more sound. When you need more sound, you need to improve mostly the bass, and then also the high, because the ear of the men, of the human people, you know that it’s easier to heard the central range. You have difficult to heard the lower, also the very high range. Our ear is able to distinguish very good in the middle of the range. When you go up and down, so when you want to employ the sound, you need to employ more the lower. Probably, I don’t know, all the device, we find that pushing this way, you send immediately the sound that may be called wider. There is only a little trick employing the bass and the high there. The second reason, to make the people afraid. It’s another trick. For example, Shoenberg or Zemlinsky use two tuba, it’s a lot of contrabass, to make a situation of afraid, of tension. If you improve just like this.

Audience member

Can’t the tuba produce harmonics?

Gregorio Mazzarese

[plays tuba] The same bass.

Audience member

Can’t the tuba produce harmonics?

Gregorio Mazzarese

Wait, the same bass, the player here, will make you afraid. [Laura plays piano] While the lower register, it’s poor. So they need one tuba, two tuba, two double bass.

Audience member

Can the tuba produce harmonics, those high tones inside the note?

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes, theoretically you can play as high as you want. Practically it was I believe the other player. We work only with harmonics. When a player [plays three ascending notes on tuba] These are the second, the third and the fourth harmonic. The first harmonic on this tuba is this one. You can choose the second harmonic. You can elide it higher.

Francesco Storino

I will answer your question with the cello. I can go much higher and I will show you.

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK. The last thing which I remember, one piece in particular in which brass instruments are used to make a strange situation. It’s a piece of Schoenberg. It’s not very... it’s called Gurre-Lieder. Gurre-Lieder is a piece of Schoenberg in which he wants to represent a lot of scenes of this country, Gurre. In this piece, in one point he wants to represent the skeleton that at the end of the night, when they go down in the hearth. They use three tubas and two contrabass posaune just like a [inaudible] go down, down, down to represent this situation. Remember, it’s a passage just like this one.

(music: Gregorio Mazzarese plays brief tuba passage from Gurre-Lieder)

These are the skeleton that go down now. The other question? [laughter] Later.

Audience member

The tuba was also used in a lot of popular music like marching bands and jazz bands in the beginning, right?

Gregorio Mazzarese

One of the most famous composer for marching band is John Philip Sousa.

Audience member

American.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes. Not only composed for tuba but he built a tuba. Probably you see a tuba that is going just around the body of the player and going this way, similar to this one. It’s only the shape that is changed because this is only a tube in which, instead of this shape, is a shape just around the body of the bringer and the player. He studied this kind of tuba to make easier to transport while he was playing. Also for an aesthetic reason, because the bell was not going up, but going in front. He had these two advantage. The first advantage is that the sound, when you play in the open air, don’t go out but go in the people, in the orchestra. The second reason is that with the big bell you can write the name of the band, of the composer, you can enjoy this one.

Audience member

How long is the tube?

Gregorio Mazzarese

In this tuba it’s 4 meters, without pushing the tube. But the most popular tuba, the B flat tuba, is six meters longer. Pushing all the valves, you can go to eight meters longer, just about.

Audience member

Thank you.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Ciao! [applause]

Francesco Storino

Now I can show you some secret about string instruments. Of course I have a cello, and I speak about the cello but what I will say, it’s for all string instruments. First of all, may be interesting that in Italian – Italy is where string instruments have been invented – the name is not string instrument but bow instrument: Strumenti ad arco, “bow instrument.” First of all I will explain that the name of the bow can sound strange, because the shape is not the shape of a bow. But this is now. When the string instruments were founded in the 14th century, the original shape of the bow was exactly a bow, like this, convex. Then with passing the time and needing more effects, first for some of the springing bow effects, like this [plays cello] can you see? the bow springs on the string – they found that this kind of shape was much better to do this. With the centuries, the shape changed in this way. Speaking of the bow, may be quite interesting to see, do you know what material is this one? Horse hair, OK, everybody knows. But the secret I want to explain to you: Do you think it’s male or female, or both?

Audience member

Female.

Audience member

Male.

Audience member

It doesn’t matter.

Francesco Storino

It does. It’s male, only male. Why?

Audience member

Stronger.

Francesco Storino

Not at all.

Audience member

Thicker.

Francesco Storino

No, very characteristic matter. Think about physiology. There’s a problem: This is a horse tail, of course. Think about a horse...

Audience member

[inaudible].

Francesco Storino

Yeah, think about...

Audience member

Substances that end up in the horse’s tail, not with the male horse but with the female horse?

Francesco Storino

Yeah, for example. I speak without any problem. Think of a horse when it pisses.

Audience member

Exactly.

Francesco Storino

A male will piss this way. [points forward] A female will piss this way, on its tail. [points down] The problem is that the female horse hair stinks. This is the only matter why we use male horse. That’s just funny, but nobody knows.

Audience member

Yeah it is funny. [laughter]

Francesco Storino

That’s the only matter. Otherwise we can use all kind of horse, of white horse. White horse instead of black horse: This is a real physiological difference. Black horse gives hair for double bass bow, because it’s thicker. We need thinner hair so we use white horse hair. When you look to a string instrument, you can see a body, that’s the main part of the instrument. What you can’t see is what’s inside the body of the instrument, because it’s not only empty. Inside there are two main parts. A little cylinder of wood that connects the upper to the bottom. Its name in Italian is anima, that means soul, because its position is really the soul of the sound. It depends on the correct position of this little wooden part how the sound will be good or not so good. In English it’s “sound post,” in Italian it’s soul. OK, we are more poetic, I don’t know. The other one is the chain. Name is chain because it’s a wooden piece running on the upper part of the body in this way. Both these pieces of wood for all string instruments have the responsibility to amplify the sound, to make the sound possible, to transmit to all the body of the instrument, and then to be released from these holes – named Fs, it’s evident why. The shape is only for aesthetical matters. It push out the vibration of the string. The cello in the range of the string instruments is like a tenor in human voice. It has as characteristic, it reaches all the range of the human voice, from the bass to the female voice, and then more, going up to many notes usually played by the violin for their height. [plays cello] It’s a very large range of notes. For example, I can show you the harmonics you were asking.

Audience member

The armonici.

Francesco Storino

The armonici, yeah, the harmonics you were asking. What do we mean when we speak about an harmonic? If we have a principal note, maybe this one [plays cello] – this is a theory coming from Pythagoras, okay, so it’s very important – if you cut the string in two equal parts, this sound will be an octave upper. I show you immediately: If I put my finger at the exact half of the string, if the sound of the open string is this [plays cello], with my finger in the middle will be an octave upper. If you divide it into three parts, will be an octave and a fifth upper. So this is a third of the string. Then two octaves. The more you divide the string, the upper goes the sound. These are harmonics.

Gregorio Mazzarese

You see that when he make higher notes he push here, OK. Now, for the purpose of the demo, he can push also very soft here. [talks to Francesco in Italian]

Francesco Storino

Mhmmm

Gregorio Mazzarese

You see that he is pushing here, at this point. It’s just like he make it here, here, here, here, here, here, here, at the division, pushing this point, it’s a...

Francesco Storino

If I play, if I just push very lightly here, I divide the string in four parts. It’s the same, three and one, so it’s like I’ve divided the whole string in four parts.

Gregorio Mazzarese

You see, people see, if you push here, the sound becomes also high because it’s just like if he divided it in eight parts. It’s interesting.

Francesco Storino

It’s four.

Gregorio Mazzarese

It’s push here, just like he push here, here, here, here, here. There’s a point, there’s an eight part of the chord.

Francesco Storino

I can use these to make the higher sound as possible. Harmonics.

Francesco Storino

He meant, with harmonics.

Gregorio Mazzarese

[inaudible] but had only with the tension to this note. If you listened very carefully, you heard after ten seconds, this note. You’re able to hear that higher note.

Francesco Storino

Can somebody hear? Yes?

Gregorio Mazzarese

It’s very soft because inside the first note, there are a lot of harmonics. The fifth is the harmonic that we heard better. There are other harmonics in the chord. OK.

Francesco Storino

Yeah. Now I just want to play something because I want to show what the cello is in, for example, romantic music. The cello in romantic music is a singer. A singer without words, and in fact, I want to play a piece by Felix Mendelssohn, named Lieder ohne Worte. Lied ohne Worte. That’s “Song Without Words.” OK. Thank you.

(music: Francesco, Laura and Gregorio live performance of Lieder ohne Worte)

Audience member

In the Baroque period...

Francesco Storino

In the?

Audience member

Baroque. Barocco.

Francesco Storino

Yes, yes.

Audience member

The Baroque period.

Francesco Storino

La Baroque, yes? Is it?

Participant

Yes. I heard a lot of Barocco through my life. Anyway. In the Baroque period, I remembered that in the orchestras there were no double basses yet. Was the cello a big solo instrument for those pieces?

Francesco Storino

Maybe I have to explain you better what no double basses meant, because it’s not exact. There were no double basses simply because their name was not double bass. You have to know that double bass – that I find is one of the most fascinating instruments existing – is quite a new instrument. But its shape and its kind of technique depends very strictly on his grandfather, the violone of the Baroque music. For example, string instruments, modern string instruments, are the evolution of the viola family of the Renaissance period.

Audience member

Viola da gamba.

Francesco Storino

Please let me. Viola da gamba, for example, yeah, but double bass is quite the same as the viola di piede, that’s foot viola, viola di piede. That was the old name of double bass in Baroque and the Renaissance period. It’s not true there were not bass instruments in Baroque music. There was simply violone instead of double bass, so it existed, a bass instrument, for Baroque music. Cello is not a great solo instrument in Baroque period, because cello was in a strange situation. I can’t explain in a very short time, but viola da gamba, the old parent of the cello, was a noble instrument. Noble not for a particular characteristic or something like this, but because it was played in the courts. It was noble because it was played by kings, for example. It was considered noble. When they found an instrument like the cello, whose sound is much powerful and rich than the one of the gamba, of course there was a great reaction to this, and cello was considered en français “le pauvre diable,” a poor...

Audience member

Poor devil.

Francesco Storino

Yes, yes, yes. Poor devil. Only with Johann Sebastian Bach, this idea started to change. This is why in Baroque music only Vivaldi wrote some concerts for cello. Vivaldi and the cellists. But not famous composers like Tartini, maybe, like Corelli, the great Baroque composer, Handel, Telemann. None of them wrote a cello concerto. None of them, because of this. Let me say that I consider viola di gamba a fantastic instrument. Very fascinating instrument. It’s a pity I haven’t one now, but it sounds very soft. It’s so beautiful. The importance of the cello starts with Bach and with the Classical period, Beethoven, for example. They are the first important composers for cello. OK? I want to change now.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Want to speak about tension?

Francesco Storino

What’s that?

Gregorio Mazzarese

Want to speak about tension?

Francesco Storino

Yeah.

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK.

Francesco Storino

Before, as I heard the lecture that was before our one, it was very interesting because I heard about tensions, what was the idea of...

Gregorio Mazzarese

Because acoustics. We play acoustic instruments. Usually you use electronic device. What is the matter that we needed to make the same, we and you? We needed to make up the tension of the person who helped us with our instrument, and you with your instrument. Sometimes we also use electronic device. And what is the [inaudible] things that make up the attention to person. The attention is made up by the tension. Attention/tension. How we can create the tension with music, with our instrument? We want to explain something about this. OK?

Francesco Storino

OK. Yes, but before speaking we have to play.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes, we have a piece written by Francesco. The name of the piece is Orange, “Arancione,” just like the color, and the heart of this piece is not only – just like my shirt, yes – the title of this piece not only thinks of the music, I think it’s beautiful music. But which are the points that the attention go up and which is the point in which the attention and the tension go down?

Francesco Storino

Many of you have already heard this because we started with this piece, but now we’ll play again, just to speak about this piece. This will be another thing we will speak about, the fine tuning of the instruments. We will speak about afterward.

Gregorio Mazzarese

You can change the tuning by, for example, he using the mechanism at the top. In the tuba and on the basses, you probably you see trumpet player that move this pump, is the principle pump. Usually you can put the pitch lower and higher of the total instrument. OK. [speaks Italian]

(music: Francesco, Laura and Gregorio – live performance of “Arancione”)

Francesco Storino

Have you heard how we started in a mood and ended in a [inaudible]. This is made just to create, in various ways, attention. For example, what did we do? First of all, we made clear the difference of the increasing number of players, of course. First I play alone, then with the tuba, and then we were three. But this is obvious. Less obvious is the use of the dynamics. How did we use dynamics in this piece? For example, when I started alone, I played quite soft, but not so soft. For example, the start was this. [plays cello] Don’t worry, this is usual. It’s normal that this happens, but it’s not so normal. It happens to the players, and it happens even in the concerts so there’s some player that during a concert will be looking over his person to switch off during the concert. It’s very funny. Returning to our tension, dynamic tension. I wrote in this piece the starting of the piece is piano, soft. But when the tuba starts to play, I wrote mezzo-forte, not so soft. But if I play, I play it not so soft to start, and softer when the tuba gets in. Please. Directly from your start. [play together]

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK.

Francesco Storino

OK. Yes. OK. This is your start, but I was wrong.

Gregorio Mazzarese

The entire bar.

Francesco Storino

Number, number?

Gregorio Mazzarese

Is 21.

Francesco Storino

21.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Second bar. Second.

Francesco Storino

Number.

Gregorio Mazzarese

The ten movement.

Francesco Storino

All the bad place.

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK.

Francesco Storino

It looks. It’s a stronger sound, but it isn’t. Simply, two instruments, instead of one, are playing first. Second, the harmony is richer than the beginning, and this gives an idea of increasing something. But I didn’t do it playing stronger. Even because this piece is three minutes of music, if I play too loud now, how can I play at the end when... [plays loud on cello] I have to break my instrument to play so loud? I can’t. This gives tension, when dynamic is used in a way you can’t expect. Another example of this may be Laura, with you. Maybe let’s play place 41. Your beginning.

Laura De Mariassevich

With piano?

Francesco Storino

Si. [speaking Italian]

(music: Francesco, Laura – live demonstration of “Arancione”)

Francesco Storino

OK, thank you. Did you hear what happened? Suddenly, the dynamic was down.

Audience member

A real contrast.

Francesco Storino

Real contrast, yeah. But in the whole you can’t feel it as a piano moment. Piano, soft moment of the music, but like something has happened. Like a broken breath. What happened? This gives more attention. Even if we play it in a way that seems to be dis-tension way. OK? Is it clear? Did I explain myself?

Audience member

Yeah.

Francesco Storino

This is one way. Another example is the rhythmical example. The beginning of the piece is this. [plays] Going on is this. [plays] Then. [plays] And more. [plays] More again. [plays] And finally. [plays] These are examples of diminution of the rhythm. Every time faster, faster, faster and faster, but not faster in the movement. Not faster in the beat, but faster in the writing. [counting rhythm] like this. This is not a way to give a rhythmical tension. This is very important, because the faster you write, the bigger will be the impression of the music. It’s quite strange, because usually we think that faster music sounds like more tense music. This isn’t true. For example, if I play the same pace at two speeds. Here. [plays] This is like this. [plays] But if I play it faster. [plays] Maybe you can see I have some difficulty playing, but the first idea was this. [claps beat] The second idea was this. [claps beat] The feeling is slower. Yeah. The feeling is slower. The music is faster, but the feeling is slower. This is a way to make a dis-tension, not a tension. The tension is given playing at exactly the same tempo. For example, for you this is very good, because you have familiarity with electronic devices. Electronic devices have great advantage in keeping the tempo. When you use a loop, you are sure that you will have the same beat, and you decide if you want to change. It’s not given by personality. It’s not the same when you play with acoustic instruments. You risk, when you play an instrument like this, to rush, or to slow down the music. This is why using acoustic instruments, using increasing reboots gives tension, because you have to keep the control of the rhythm. You have absolutely to make up your mind to control what’s happening on the rhythm. I feel a little envy for electronic device because of this. Because they give you something sure. For example, with the rhythm. But, my envy stops when I think that I can take the control of myself to have the same rhythm, and, if I want, I don’t do this. I give a little more. For example, I change a little the tempo. I did this. Maybe you didn’t feel, but if you have electronic device keeping the tempo, you have felt that I was a little pushing the tempo. Was a little faster than the start. I can do this. This is my advantage, our advantage, with acoustical instruments on the electronic devices.

Gregorio Mazzarese

OK. Resuming what he was going to explain. What is that make you be in a tension about music? Not on the music, also in your life. Also in literature. Also in life. If you want to make tension, what is it that make you afraid? Is what is unexpected. You are in tension. You are in afraid. When you have something that you don’t know. When you don’t know what is going to happen. When you going to do something that you don’t know. What is the opposite of tension? Is boring. What is boring? Is what you know. Something repeat. How you can play to the bore music? Bore literature? Bore book? Bore life? Bore evening? When you repeat the same thing all the time. When the people expect what you are going to perform. What we are going to present. What you are going to speak. The people is intention is give you his attention when he don’t expect. You can have the tension of people, and probably is useful for your work. Also in any electronic music. Also when you are in a disco, or music happening. How? You have two way. One is the progression. In the piece of a Francesco that all two situation. The first way you can create tension is by progression. What means? To go in one direction is can be in the sound. [Laura plays piano]

Laura De Mariassevich

OK, so I think you use this rhythm very usual in your composition, because it is a modern rhythm. The last one is the more complicated. It could introduce another argument that is the harmony. In this variation, Mozart changed the mode from major to minor. I think you know major minor, or you know chord.

Gregorio Mazzarese

We explain later.

Laura De Mariassevich

Yes. We explain later.

Gregorio Mazzarese

With the help of Francesco.

Laura De Mariassevich

This melody is in, this variation is in minor mode, and you can listen that the character is more intimate. Is different from other variation, because minor mode has the expansion. This affect to create an intimate sad character. If you want to create a sad and intimate melody you can use minor mode. That is more efficient by the major. This is the variation. [plays] OK? I think it’s different. OK, and finish, you can tell about harmony.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Matter. Laura introduces another matter. Brava. [applause] You see, and you heard how Mozart change the melody and the rhythm, especially in the last when is just like jazz rhythm. Is Mozart and jazz. Is Mozart. Original Mozart, but the most important is the last one. You must know that the music of two century. Other music of two century from perhaps three century, from 17th century to the last century, the 20th century, is based on two rules. Major and minor. You know that one. You know about this. All the music. Also, the music you use in electronic device is based on these tunes. This is one of the mystery of the music. The difference from major and minor. You must know that this is the music played in major moods. [Francesco plays cello] The same notes we change only one notes of a half tune. It means that from [plays] Only change these notes, hear the music. [plays] You feel the moods, from happy to sadness. [plays] Major. Minor. He change only one note of half tone. Nobody knows why changing this notes, we feel sad moods, instead of happy moods. This is not only in our civilities. Also if we make heard this music in a tribal people, or in other country. In Japan. In Brazil. In Cape Town. People [inaudible] that is happy moods, and sad moods. Nobody knows why, and on this two moods, is best the music from the 17th century...

Francesco Storino

No, 16th. 16th century.

Gregorio Mazzarese

16th century to the last century. After the beginning of the 20th century something changed. They discovered either way the mystery moods remain still today in all the life music. The pitch will move, which is composed of notes. And nobody why. This and other things that is complicated to the tension. If you want people to make tension, you must don’t play these notes, this note. What it means. The note that will change from the alto tone is the note that you make happy or sad. [plays] Happy and sad. If you put a way, this note, if I saw this. [plays] We don’t know how you, notes is. This is a trick, another trick to make tension. It’s used, for example, from Harry Mancini. You know who is Harry Mancini? He’s a composer, who composed the soundtrack of ...

Audience member

Yes, Charades, Pink Panther.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Of Pink Panther, yes. You remember the beginning of Pink Panther?

Audience member

Breakfast at Tiffany’s, too.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Especially in the Pink Panther, you remember how the Pink Panther begin?

Audience member

[inaudible].

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes, but before this. [plays] I see. What make Harry Mancini these three notes? He needs to make you in tension. He needs, Harry Mancini knows that this is a film, you know the film is a story of diamonds and keeping. Music make tension. The first things Harry Mancini does, did is put away the modal note, the note that make you happy or sad. So when you heard, okay follow. [plays] Now you don’t know if it is happy or sad. Have the same music with the modal node. For example, happy. [plays] This is sad. It’s is not, you are not afraid, you know that is happy or sad. Putting away this note, you know the music, you don’t know what happy. This is a way to make tension. You must know that to make the music, happy or sad is very important also for these reason.

Francesco Storino

In the Pink Panther theme, we know it’s minor only when the theme is already started. This is cute, because we have to wait for one minute music to know this. This is the tension. In one minute, we don’t know it would be major, minor, modal. We don’t know.

Gregorio Mazzarese

A lot of composers in classical music, and also in the soundtrack music, use this way to make you without....

Francesco Storino

The first to do this was Ludwig van Beethoven in the 9th symphony. The 9th symphony of Beethoven starts like this. [plays] For one minute we have two notes, B and A, and those notes don’t tell to us what’s happening. We only know there’s this. [plays] It goes on, goes. And finally the whole orchestra played.

(music: Francesco Storino performs section from Beethoven's Symphony No. 9)

Here is it. Now we know this is minor! It took two minutes know it. When there are three of them, like this, what’s happening? I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know.

Gregorio Mazzarese

This situation make it that we have, in this scale. In the scale. A [inaudible] position of the note. When we decide in the most of the music that we use today, that you use. We have a [inaudible] position of a note. There is a bass note, from the middle, for example. [plays] There is a dominant, the second for important for something. [plays] Then there are other, for example, there is the sensible. There is the note that you never stop this note. For example, see. [plays] You can stop there. [plays]

Audience member

It’s the leading note, there’s a subtonic.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes, it’s the leading note, subtonic. This is the modal theory. You must understand, in the last century, they put all the, [inaudible] and they start another way to music. We time, I can explain what’s [inaudible].

Audience member

I was really about to ask about the mic...

Francesco Storino

The microphone, the microphone.

Gregorio Mazzarese

What’s your name?

Audience member

Alex. We were talking about tonality, tone of music, a concept that was mainly explored after the Baroque period, but had a great work with the well tampered clamp here. That established, it was in my opinion it was a scientific essay about tonality. Which is actually in, once again, my opinion, a gravitational force in between notes. But what about modal music?

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes.

Francesco Storino

That’s very interesting. First of all, I absolutely agree with your opinion. Tonality is gravitational system. But it works even with modality. The tension in this sense, in modality, lays on the mode itself. But the mode may be considered as a son of the tonality.

Audience member

Or the father, who knows?

Gregorio Mazzarese

Sorry?

Audience member

Father, because the concept of mode is earlier.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes.

Audience member

Scientifically.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Yes, sure, but you have to think about that with the 16th century, with [inaudible], for example, was of common opinion that the winning theory was the tunnel theory. For four centuries, this was absolutely this. Only after Mahler, it changed.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Imagine our modal music...

Audience member

Had a great deal about establishing the modes that people could play. In the middle age.

Francesco Storino

That’s a very long discussion, maybe interesting, but may even be that...

Audience member

It’s a little deep.

Francesco Storino

Yes, but maybe now it’s a little late. What time is it?

Audience member

6 o’clock.

Francesco Storino

6 o’clock.

Gregorio Mazzarese

You speak about modal music, but what happen in the last century? After three century of modal music, and major and minor, just like in the [inaudible], they want to find the other way to present the reality. That civilization is going broke. Also the music find a new way to represent what they do. This is a scientific way to make music. They decide that all the mode of the scale are the same situation. There is not the dominant, there is not the modal, there is not an attraction for note, but all the note, you understand me, are the same import. This is a scientific, academic, it was a decision. They must found a different way to way to build the music, because without rules, regularly, we can do nothing. They decided on a table, the new rules. One of the new rules that they decided was the serial music. You never heard about serial music?

Audience member

I’ve heard of it.

Gregorio Mazzarese

[chuckles] Alex, OK. The serial music is a music in which you must make a serial. What is a serial, is all the 12 tone on the scale, and you must play all the 12 tones on the scale before to play another time one of the 12 note. You understand what that means? You must play, you have 12 tone in a scale. You have [Laura plays piano] You have the serial, you have these 12 note, you can choose the set. You can first one, then another, then another. Then you have 12 notes, but you can’t play the same notes two times. When you have the complete set, you can make another one. You can make, and this is the academic way to make it, you can make the same set in the inverse.

Francesco Storino

Really?

Gregorio Mazzarese

You can play in the opposite direction. You understand me? You have the serial, then you play one of these, then you can play the same in the opposite direction. Then you can change the interval, you can make...

Francesco Storino

Mirror.

Gregorio Mazzarese

Just like in a mirror. This is an academic way, that it take about ...

Francesco Storino

A mirror reverse.

Gregorio Mazzarese

You can take, about 50 years in the last century, it became... I tell, for example, of serial music written for tuba in 1990. It’s for tuba, you understand, I play. The first 12 note are all different. Then I play the same note in upwards direction, my change in the tone. This is what happen.

(music: Gregorio Mazzarese – live tuba demonstration)

Now, is the opposite.

(music: Gregorio Mazzarese – live tuba demonstration)

OK, that’s correct. If you see the music in, you see that the, this is the first section. The second staff is actually identical of the first, just read in. Then the piece go on, go on. What it means, this? That they want to find a new way. When you heard this music, you probably don’t, hmm, sounds strange in your ear. You must understand that the beginning, about 1920, it sound very strange. It was just like a scandal. A scandal when you make this music. But they go on. The other situation that we can find to, different way to make music, is using the sound of nature. Probably you, this is the way that you can go, do with a electronic device, and you improve over the electronic device. Using for example, cascade sounds, river sounds, Martello, hammer sounds. Music using the sounds of nature. You can make music just using this way, use the train sound and so on. Sometime they have a mix using a tape, using an instrument that represent sounds of the nature, sounds of civilization.

Francesco Storino

Maybe we have told so much. It’s enough. I love to end with music.

Audience member

Yeah!

Francesco Storino

We are thinking about to play something by Chick Corea, because we do believe, and this is the matter for which we are here. The differences between classical music, rather than jazz, rather than all kind of music, is not the difference that makes a contrast. Is only a different to inform us that the music is different by another, but the great music is only great music. Leonard Bernstein said, “There are only two kinds of music, good music and bad music.” I agree in total. When I am here, I learn so much from what you are doing, because it’s very interesting and very important. The history of music is going on, and you are not only the present but also the future of music. We are too. We love to have this kind of experience, common experience, in music. So now we can do this with Chick Corea. And why not? I hope we can do something together sometimes. I really hope. OK, please. Would you like to improvise something with us? Something once?

Audience member

Yes.

Francesco Storino

Who wants? Come here.

(music: Francesco, Laura and Gregorio – live performance of Chick Corea song)

Thank you to everybody.

Gregorio Mazzarese

If you ask some more questions, we are here to answer. Not only for Alex. No? OK

Audience member

What do you think is the most important thing about when you are ready to handle a new composition?

Francesco Storino

When we arrange. Go ahead.

Gregorio Mazzarese

You have the multiple expert ...

Audience member

Attention, you talked a little bit about a little difficult elements within the composition, in the composition itself, the flow and stuff like that. Do you feel that there is a certain structure, or formula that is particularly helpful?

Francesco Storino

There are many, many things that on which will depend this answer. It depends, for example, on a... First of all, on the personal feeling. What’s important to me for I want to put...

Audience member

Self.

Francesco Storino

Yes, of the music, and first of all, myself. Okay, myself. Myself, not an ego way, but in a feeling. What’s my feeling about this music? What I want, for example, what happen now, if I had arranged this piece, my feeling is very rhythmical. Even as a children’s song, so very nice theme, a very simple harmony – I feel a great pulse, rhythmic pulse inside. If I made an arrangement for example, for this group, I would have written a very important rhythmical part. [drums on body of his cello] Something like a bodhran, in Irish music, for example. Another very important thing is to know, absolutely, perfectly the instruments you are going to use.

Audience member

For the sounds.

Francesco Storino

The sounds, the sounds, and not only the sounds. In our, especially in our field, the technique of those instruments is fundamental. If you want a sound, if I want a tuba sound, for example, I have, not only I must know that this instrument can do this. I think it’s the same in your field. You have to know perfectly this, because otherwise you will bring only an idea, your idea. But it will not pass because the people who’s playing this or the instrument who is playing this will not give this idea. I have a big deal with myself now, because I have just written a piece that I am afraid will be not possible to play, exactly for ideas. I wanted to push the technique of an instrument – actually the cello – in such a way that I am afraid it will be not possible to play. But it’s a deal with myself.

Audience member

Why is that, because of the...

Francesco Storino

Technical matters, because... [motions to sit down but realizes his chair is not there anymore] It’s not my chair. That’s very dangerous, and it was sitting up onto nothing. I’m afraid I’ve written something I was not able to play.

Audience member

Why don’t you use 2 people?

Francesco Storino

When I use two people...

Audience member

If you can’t play it, then why don’t you use two people to play it?

Francesco Storino

I have only one. I haven’t another one.

Audience member

If you get twp people to put the hands on it, no?

Francesco Storino

No, this is not possible. No, because it’s quite complicated to explain. It’s obviously not two people on one instrument, okay, but two people playing the same part, if there’s a problem, bend to the meaning, to the technical meaning of this part. Both of them will not play this. The deal with myself is, I want to do this, because I like very much what I’ve written, but I actually don’t know if will be able to do it. That’s a risk I can take on myself, not on another person.

Audience member

What is the risk you are making?

Francesco Storino

The risk? The great risk is that the music will be not my music.

Audience member

No, no, but you cannot get the scale?

Francesco Storino

No, I haven’t fear enough to play, because maybe [plays] It’s so difficult, music. [plays] An example, I have [plays] An octet, here. If I have to go more than an octet, it’s very large. [plays] It arrives a moment where my hands is too small to do all of what I want to do. If I write this, I will not play, because my hand could not play there.

Audience member

That’s why I asked you, why doesn’t two people play the same instrument?

Francesco Storino

Because the coordination is absolutely impossible between hands. You know, there’s a very interesting thing, technically speaking...

RBMA

Sorry to cut you in there.

Francesco Storino

Is it too late?

RBMA

No, no, you can continue it after we finish, but we need to wrap it up, because we’ve got quite a tight schedule this evening. Once again, thank you very much indeed.

Francesco Storino

OK, thanks to you.