Peder Mannerfelt

Calle Dernulf

Hi, and welcome to Red Bull Music Academy Bass Camp Stockholm. My name is Calle Dernulf and I’m incredibly happy to introduce an experimental sound creator and musician, Peder Mannerfelt! [applause]

Peder Mannerfelt

Hi!

Calle Dernulf

How are you?

Peder Mannerfelt

I’m good. A bit tired. But at least I made it here.

Calle Dernulf

You just finished a gig at Berghain. What was the mood like?

Peder Mannerfelt

We played the final set, until ten o’clock yesterday morning. It was very intense, but a lot of fun.

Calle Dernulf

And you performed as Aasthma?

Peder Mannerfelt

That’s right.

Calle Dernulf

You and Pär Grindvik. What is it that you do as Aasthma?

Peder Mannerfelt

We don’t really know. We’ve worked together for quite a few years in various ways. He helps me with my record label in many different ways. But we realized that we had never made music together. So we started doing that. We don’t really have a plan. We just started DJing together, like we did this weekend.

Calle Dernulf

Did you dream about being a rock star when you were young?

Peder Mannerfelt

Oh yes! That was my goal all along. I wanted that from an early age. I played the guitar at first, and wanted to become a rock star. But that’s not quite what happened.

Calle Dernulf

How do you feel about that rock star status when you compare it to being a star DJ at Berghain today?

Peder Mannerfelt

In hindsight I think I made the right decision. The CDJ [is] a bit more fun than playing the guitar. It’s easier. I wasn’t that great of a guitarist. I never really fully committed to it. I ended up fiddling with pedals and the such instead. Others had more talent than me.

Calle Dernulf

Was that a way to move away from it since you felt that you weren’t that great of a guitarist?

Peder Mannerfelt

Probably. I wanted to make electronic music, but didn’t know anyone who did. Everyone played in a band: hard rock, grunge, punk and hardcore. I didn’t know anyone who owned a synthesizer. It was almost like a mystery... I knew that I wanted to make drum & bass. But I had absolutely no idea how to do it. My big brother had computer software in which you could edit a track. So he edited a few songs together, which was awesome. But that was all there was.

Calle Dernulf

For the past 15-20 years you’ve had [aliases like] the Subliminal Kid, Roll the Dice and a lot of collaborations.

Peder Mannerfelt

Yes.

Calle Dernulf

Why are you so attracted to collaborations?

Peder Mannerfelt

It just happens. I get easily bored, so I always look for something new. It’s much easier to get something done when you’re not on your own. Even in my solo projects I still work with Pär Grindvik. If you work on your own, the process can take such a long time. When is it time to move on, when is it done? Just realizing when you’re done... It’s so easy to just keep going and keep adding things. But if you’re two or more people making the decision to move forward is much easier. “OK, now we’re done!” And not let things pile up.

Calle Dernulf

Do you feel an obligation to deliver when there’s someone else involved? Is that also a part of the collaboration? Having to step up to the plate.

Peder Mannerfelt

I’m not sure it works that way. I like it when you can involve different people in the process. You work with different people in different ways. You don’t always have to stay in the same role. With one person you might focus on the beats. Or I might be in charge of the musical part, even though that’s not my strong suit. It’s fun to try on different roles, such as doing the lyrics and such. It’s a lot of fun, and that’s the most important thing for me.

Calle Dernulf

Let’s get back to the dream of being a rock star and when you started fiddling with effect pedals instead. At this point you had to have realized that it was sound in particular that was important for you?

Peder Mannerfelt

Right. In his basement, a friend of mine had one of the first Pro Tools interfaces. We spent the entire final year of high school recording bad funk.

Calle Dernulf

Bad funk?

Peder Mannerfelt

Very bad funk. After school had finished, I went there on my own to record other things. I took a sound technician course. It’s not that long ago, but at that time the internet didn’t exist in the same way. All kinds of information is available right away today. Today, you can learn a lot on your own, which is awesome. That wasn’t possible before. YouTube has really made a huge difference. You had to find information in other ways. So I took a course at the SAE Institute for six months to find out if this was something that I could pursue.

Calle Dernulf

When did you realize that you would be able to accomplish the things you wanted to do musically?

Peder Mannerfelt

About five years ago, I’d say. Mastering all this has been a long journey. Working with music software is like learning a new instrument. You get a flow in your work.

Calle Dernulf

It’s interesting that you said “five years ago” since you’ve been releasing records for a long time and produced other artists. That attitude might be a bit too humble, without a sense of reality?

Peder Mannerfelt

It wasn’t until then... But I’m not done yet. You always keep learning. That’s when I felt that I could create the things that I had set my mind to. It’s like the famous 10,000 hour rule. You can master anything, as long as you spend 10,000 hours doing it. I’ve probably spent 100,000 hours or more at this point... I think that’s true. Even if you’re not the best singer or musician you can still put in the hours, and find your way. That’s why I like working with a computer. Today, you can create a song incredibly fast. The threshold is really low.

20 years ago, I couldn’t even imagine this, “How does a sampler work? Where can I get one? What else do I need?” Today, a producer makes music. Historically, a producer has been a mediator between the technology and the artist. Making the artist feel comfortable with using the technology, and vice versa. You almost act as a psychologist. It’s easy to forget those things today when you work on your own. When you work with others, you have to listen to each other.

Calle Dernulf

There are also producers, artists and record labels who want a specific person who represents a certain sound or level of quality, and so on. But there’s also the aspect you mention, the mediator who has to convey the artist’s vision. If you work as a producer for another artist, you are not the main focus. It’s easy to forget that today when the lines are blurred.

Peder Mannerfelt

We learned a lot regarding that. Do I want to be an artist or a producer? Where do I place myself on this scale?

Calle Dernulf

And you found that being a producer is a bit tricky?

Peder Mannerfelt

Henrik von Sivers who I work with right now, he calls himself Van Rivers, we did this together for a few years. Then we drifted away from each other. We wanted different things musically. I’m very happy with what we created during this long process. Then I ended up at square one again. I didn’t know what to do. Should I start making commercial jingles, or get into the TV business? Where do you go from here? I just started making tons of recordings. I have children now, so I don’t have as much time as before but at that point I had tons of free time. I spent many hours on it. Now, ten years later I can open those files and have 15 perfect minutes that I can use today. I spent a long time searching for a purpose.

Calle Dernulf

If we go back a bit, do you have any early musical memory that you can go back to? A strong experience of any kind?

Peder Mannerfelt

My big brother is seven years older than me and was into hip-hop in the late ’80s. He recorded Soul Corner on P3 for me every Sunday. I was five, so I had to listen to it. We listened to the hip-hop of that time, Public Enemy and 2 Live Crew. And also Kraftwerk! That’s where it started.

Calle Dernulf

That’s quite modern in a way, but you still chose to pick up the guitar?

Peder Mannerfelt

That’s when I wanted to find my own way, when my big brother left home. Me and my friends listened to a lot of hardcore which was big in Sweden in the beginning of the ’90s, such as Refused. You know, going snowboarding and playing the guitar.

Calle Dernulf

Eventually you found your own type of techno by eliminating the dancefloor.

Peder Mannerfelt

Yes.

Calle Dernulf

How liberating was it to realize that you had a path to follow?

Peder Mannerfelt

It wasn’t a sure thing right away. At times I went overboard and just kept adding things. Songs with tons of beats and lots of additional stuff. My friend Paul from Emptyset heard some synthesizer stuff and loved it. So he wanted to make a record with four songs like that. For me they were just bits and pieces, like separate tracks from different songs. But that’s when I understood... When I started doing this that’s when the techno world started showing appreciation. Just when I stopped making techno! So I slipped in through the backdoor.

Calle Dernulf

By offering them something different?

Peder Mannerfelt

Exactly, now I’ve learned how to make techno! What was key in learning this? Simplifying things, and not overproducing. I often think that young people who have just discovered something new make the best dance music. Not just dance music, but other music as well. But if we use dance music as an example, before you know your way around a program you just add a kick, hi-hat and a synth line, and that’s enough to make you super excited. The energy is tangible. It’s the same thing with hip-hop. You get this simplicity with just a drum machine or something. Run-D.M.C. was just a drum machine and two voices. But the energy is crazy and the creative joy is there. The same thing goes for punk. It’s right in your face. I think it’s so much fun to discover new music and on my label I try to release quite a lot of new artists. I like the raw and straightforward approach.

I have spent some time producing others, but I struggled with it myself. But when I scaled downand started from the beginning that’s when I found the right feeling. Punk, hip-hop and electronic music have all had their pioneering moments. The most important thing isn’t to keep the same old sound but simply that you do something, and find the joy of creating music. And then the listener gets to determine if they like it or not.

Calle Dernulf

But these genres are all past their initial phase where everything’s exciting. Punk goes way back in trying to find its roots, and the same thing with hip-hop. And now dance music has passed a threshold but will it be able to find its way back to a simpler and more pure spirit?

Peder Mannerfelt

I think so. That’s what’s so cool today, with all music history being available. If I hear an artist for the first time, the first thing I do is research them. This kind of information remained a mystery in the past. “Who is Stereolab ?” But I know that today. I can find the entire discography in an instant. So today you can get this information in an instant. I still get excited by new techno today. Like the gig we did last Monday morning. You get incredibly energized. We played eight hours. You get tired, but you also get tons of energy.

Calle Dernulf

Once you get off stage, do you feel like you’ve gotten ideas for other productions?

Peder Mannerfelt

Definitely. That’s what I mean. At first you groan about having to get up at 4 AM to go to Basel and DJ for three hours. The body objects once you’re older and have small kids. But almost every time it’s like an injection of energy that lasts for a couple of days. It’s really cool.

Calle Dernulf

So it’s worth it?

Peder Mannerfelt

Definitely!

Calle Dernulf

It’s evident that you’ve played the guitar and played around with pedals. Another of your projects that has released a few albums is Roll the Dice, with you and Malcolm Pardon. How would you describe your process when you started?

Peder Mannerfelt

We ended up in the same studio 13 years ago. He’s a few years older than me and has played in bands on a professional level during the ’90s. He’s produced artists, and worked in film and TV for the past 15 years. We ended up in the same studio...

Calle Dernulf

Was that Five Guys and a Dog?

Peder Mannerfelt

Exactly. It doesn’t have a name anymore. We became friends and wanted to do something together. One good thing is that his technical skills are basically nonexistent. He can barely update his email. No, not quite that bad... So he was in charge of the musical part and I was in charge of the sound. I had bought an analog sequencer. I added pulses that he accompanied with piano. He’s not a pianist. He just knew the basics, so that made it quite simple. It wasn’t about being a virtuoso. Even if the piano is an acoustic instrument you still use it in the same way as a computer by adding notes. We’ve made three, four albums and since then moved away from this. At first we were quite strict about only using synth and piano. But then we moved on from that. We’ve worked with orchestras and such. Our goal has been to... It’s our side project! But we want to go to strange places and end up in fun situations. We’ve been successful with that during the years.

Calle Dernulf

And booking strange gigs?

Peder Mannerfelt

Strange gigs, definitely. Our next gig this fall is at the film festival in Wroclaw.

Calle Dernulf

Didn’t expect that...

Peder Mannerfelt

We’ve moved this in various directions. Lately we’ve felt a bit tired of ourselves, so instead of making another album we decided to make single tracks with various artists. We’ve worked together for ten years, so we invited a third party. Instead of releasing another album we’ve released any finished song right away on digital format. We’ve made four, five songs like that, and a few more are on the way.

Calle Dernulf

I find it interesting that the techno that you’ve created is very heavy and electric. It’s very rhythmic, but also quite restrained. It describes a slow and sluggish process, which I find interesting.

Peder Mannerfelt

Piano is great in that way, it can be both melodic and rhythmic at once. You can strip it down and scale down. Things can play multiple parts, not just melody, but also rhythm and counterpoint rhythms. Our biggest difference is that we don’t hear the same thing at the same place. We hear different rhythms in our heads. It’s really exciting, because we can’t explain it to each other. That makes it very exciting.

Calle Dernulf

Do you need to have a clear idea before you get started?

Peder Mannerfelt

No, but it helps. Sometimes I just come up with a silly title that gets me excited. One record is called “Sissel & Bass,” on which my friend Sissel Wincent sings. It’s an old sample from my big brother’s old records, “Bass!” And then a kick at the same time. I had that stuck in my head. I don’t know where the name came from, but that became the title. Just a stupid idea... I have tons of plans that I try to complete but sometimes it comes out of nowhere. In my own productions I like finding vocal samples and then just repeating them. I’m still fascinated by doing that. Using voices in electronic music creates something really special. It works on the dancefloor as well. It’s almost like an instrument, but your mind makes something more of it. This weekend, we played at 140 BPM all night. Once you’ve played heavy techno for a longer period of time and then you suddenly introduce vocals something happens in the minds of the audience. The biggest thing in techno is that women play now too. Ten years ago, no women were allowed to DJ. Today, it’s not possible to have a club event in Europe with an all-male lineup. That has changed the energy level completely. From just having a bunch of dudes fiddling with synthesizers and computers you open up to the rest of the population which gives it a completely different energy level. I was almost fed up with techno a few years ago, but now it’s fun again.

Calle Dernulf

You’ve also shaken things up and made people react to things. Such as the track called “Toxic Masculinity Has [Got] To Go Away” which is an example of this club culture, but also of male behavior.

Peder Mannerfelt

What I mean is that it isn’t evident that I should be here. As a white, middle-aged man from the north of Europe I’m already at the top of the pyramid. Why should I take up this space? That’s what it’s all about.

As an artist, you claim space. “Look at me! This is my space and territory.” There are different ways to do this. I feel compelled to invite others into this space. It’s easy to only look out for the space that I’ve created for myself. You cling to it like it’s your own fort. New things will keep on coming and they will move things forward. When that happens, instead of being scared you should open up to it.

Calle Dernulf

We’re going to open the floor to questions. Does anyone have a question?

Audience Member

Your sub basslines are always up at 60 Hz. Is there a reason for that?

Peder Mannerfelt

Because it sounds good?

Audience Member

Nice.

Peder Mannerfelt

I don’t know. You mean inside this room?

Audience Member

I’ve just thought about it in general.

Peder Mannerfelt

The bass is what I always struggle with most. That’s the good thing with working with Pär. He really knows how to add a kick. I’m almost there, when it comes to adding a kick. Working with sub bass is difficult. It depends on what you want to accomplish. A buzzing or something with momentum. In this song, there is something moving it forward. Bass is a genre of its own.

Audience Member

You mentioned that the record with Blonde Redhead failed. Question one: In what way did it fail?

Peder Mannerfelt

We simply got a bad review at Pitchfork. “OK, that’s it, we’re done working with this record.”

Audience Member

Question two: They got a boost when two songs were featured in Rick and Morty.

Peder Mannerfelt

Really, I didn’t know that!

Audience Member

I was wondering if you had noticed that? I know that that particular song has been played on Spotify 32 million times.

Peder Mannerfelt

Great for them!

Audience Member

So you hadn’t noticed...?

Peder Mannerfelt

I guess it’s not from the record we did?

Audience Member

No, I think it’s from Misery... What was the name of the record you did?

Peder Mannerfelt

It was called Penny Sparkle, also the name of her horse. The title song is about the horse. I love that. A band that has released six or seven albums and has been dropped by a recording company suddenly finds a new audience. That would’ve never happened before.

Audience Member

What’s your vision regarding the future of techno? Do you think it will become more mainstream than it is today? Will it go the same way as house music? What do you think?

Peder Mannerfelt

I don’t know... It depends on where you are in the world. It’s in one way in Sweden and in Germany and Holland it’s been mainstream since the ’90s. Techno is almost like dance band music. It has a function. It’s like elevator music for a club, to put it frankly. It’s not like writing a song from your heart. Instead it has a purpose, to make people dance to it. That framework is quite restricted. Techno and house are restricted to 4/4 and a BPM of about 130. The latest thing in techno is a higher BPM. We played at 140 BPM this weekend. A few years ago, you would never go over 130 BPM. In the ’90s, the level was raised to 142 BPM and then it went down again. But now it’s going up once more.

There’s a lot of gabber stuff coming now. People jump to the beat. That’s one of the great things. It’s not about moving the vinyl records like you did before. It’s the same with the guitar. You just stand there and move in the same way the entire time. At that time, you had to work in a certain way when doing the mixing. “I know how to mix, I’m so awesome…” That doesn’t matter today. My mom can mix. It’s completely different, and it introduces other kinds of people. I played in Belgrade two weeks ago with a young guy from Croatia. He was just insane. He played gutted soundscape stuff, jungle at 200 BPM and then switched to hip-hop at half the speed... It was insane. That would’ve been impossible a few years back. This is thanks to the CDJs. You can play stuff at the wrong speed and mix it, and make it work. I love it, it’s great.

Audience Member

Regarding your workflow, do you work in a certain way?

Peder Mannerfelt

For a long time I worked mostly with synthesizers and hardware but that restricts you to a studio that has all the things that you need in order to make a song. So for the past five years I’ve mostly used my computer and Ableton. I work with lots of samples. I have quite a large library that I can use. Just get those samples in there and get started. Then I might edit that in various ways, but I try to make a loop quite fast and then I can make variations of it in order to turn it into a song. I have to get started quite fast in order to be able to move on. The process can vary quite a lot. But simply put, about four simple loops in Ableton. Does that answer your question?

That’s the base for me, and depending on the project you can tweak it after that. I always use the computer for mixing. Using a mixing console only makes it about 2% better. It’s too much of a hassle. It doesn’t make that much of a difference. It’s like, “I have to go to the studio to mix this.” Or I can just do it right now while I’m at the computer anyway. That’s my workflow.

Calle Dernulf

Over there?

Audience Member

Maybe it’s a boring question, but I want to know about your work-life balance? Since techno used to be more underground and it involves late nights and lots of travels. When it comes to kids and financial stability, how do you make it work? Where do you make your money from? From the record label, from gigs?

Peder Mannerfelt

It’s difficult to make it work when you have kids and a family. It’s not just about you. I only make money from gigs. I have to do gigs to make money. Releasing music pretty much breaks even. Gigs pay my monthly salary. Other bonuses might turn up, like when I’m in a TV series. But you can’t depend on that. It’s all about the gigs when it comes to money. It’s a bit tricky to make it work. You also have to take time off during the work week in order to ground yourself.

I have many friends in Berlin, and over there they live like this constantly. It’s easy to lose perspective on things. For me, things started to fall into the right place when I had my kids and when things became more structured. Before that I could spend hours making 14-minute songs, “But it’s supposed to be that long!” Today it’s down to three and a half [minutes]. Who wants to listen to a song that’s 14 minutes long? I don’t! Why should I demand that from others? The time limitation is a positive thing for me. I just have to get it done. You can’t afford to sit around contemplating your navel.

Calle Dernulf

A worthy finish! Great.

Peder Mannerfelt

You can’t afford that anymore. That’s my plan after this, however...

Calle Dernulf

Thank you so much, Peder Mannerfelt!

Peder Mannerfelt

Thank you.