Steve Spacek

Benji B

There’s not many better ways to introduce our guest today. So make him feel very welcome, Mr Steve Spacek.

[applause]

How’re you doing, man?

Steve Spacek

Good, recovered.

Benji B

Steve’s just come especially to be here from Sydney, Australia.

Steve Spacek

A long way.

Benji B

Jetlag alright?

Steve Spacek

A bit in between. I’m a bit up there, a bit on the ground. Got to work it out still, but it’s a good place to be in.

Benji B

We heard music there from Spacek’s first album, Curvatia. And we’re going to touch on everything that you’ve done, but I think we should start with your musical background just to fill people in on where you’re from.

Steve Spacek

I’m from South-East London, born and bred, grew up there. As you can imagine it’s quite a big West Indian community, a lot of Jamaicans, Barbadians, people from the Caribbean, a lot of Asians. When I say Asian, in the UK Asian means Indian people, Pakistan, India, Bengali. A mix of all types of people. I grew up with a big soundsystem vibe, plenty of soundsystems around. But there’s a flipside, which was going to church from quite a young age. They had a band playing in the church so that had quite a big influence as well. Just developed from there, all the way through the '70s. I suppose, we’re going to touch on all the little places as we go along.

Benji B

So gospel and the church was definitely a big part of the upbringing?

Steve Spacek

Yeah, definitely. I just remember, Sunday with my mum and my sister, Maria, I would’ve been like four or five years old, we’d be in the church and there’d be this church band, basic drum, bass player, guitar and there was this dude with the crash cymbal, crashing away trying to lift everyone up. That definitely had a play on me. The dude with the guitar was called Brother Gordon, and it was an electric-acoustic, must have been one of the early ones, a plug-in acoustic, and a Vox amplifier. That always used to play on my mind; for whatever reason I liked the look of that. I think that helped to start things off. That’s one of my earliest memories, the Vox amp and that acoustic guitar, Brother Gordon just strumming away. Some basic chords, because for the hymns and gospel songs, the chord structures are quite basic. They don’t really stray too far. That’s my earliest memory.

Benji B

What were you going out and hearing at this point? What was influencing you to start making soundsystem music?

Steve Spacek

I’ll tell you what, apart from the whole soundsystem vibe that was going out in the summer, but in those days it was the rave music; the whole Detroit sound coming over and that was big in London, it was massive. The whole rave thing took off, there were big clubs like Clink Street and Shoom and another one that really blew up was Spectrum, which was in this club called Heaven underneath Charing Cross station. Then it spread out and went into the raves like Biology and Sunrise. But that was it at that time, that was all the acid house stuff and the early house coming over from Detroit. And also Chicago, Farley "Jackmaster" Funk and all those guys. It was just a mad sound, and you can imagine being in the UK, all that stuff is passing through and we had all this equipment that, when you turn it on, it’s making all the same frequencies, so everything is making sense.

Benji B

I remember when I got hold of "Eve," it was a long time before your album came out, but I think that was the song that brought most people into contact with Spacek, the group. You might say it had been done before, but it was one of the freshest things to have been heard for years. We should probably hear it, actually, because it still sounds good now.

(music: Spacek – "Eve" / applause)

Benji B

How many years ago did that record come out now, or rather how long since you first started putting it out there? It must have been a long time.

Steve Spacek

It was ’97 when we did it.

Benji B

At the time, sonically it sounded so fresh, apart from the fact your voice sounded unique, a new sound in itself, what you were doing with the music was definitely new. Where were you trying to go with that?

Steve Spacek

Before that point we were doing a lot of live stuff like "I Have A Daughter That Sings," and some of those tracks were quite old, from the early '90s. Then Morgan got an MPC and so we got into some hip-hop vibes, messing around with stuff. Then one day he came in with this beat and I said "OK!" It was just right where we needed to be at that time and if you know Morgan, he’s on some mad shit. So we were messing around on the MPC and all of a sudden we had this shape. And the way he chopped the sample, the singer was saying, "Believe, 'cause I need you," but he chopped it off so he said, "Eve." I like when I hear something, and I’m like, "OK, this is interesting." So I thought I’d write a song about Eve and how much I need you, a love song, and then the writing extended from there and it was a whole natural process.

Benji B

Tell me about the songwriting process because the songs you write are special. Often that’s an imaginary song, "If I Need You," "I Have A Daughter That Sings" – you didn’t have a daughter at the time.

Steve Spacek

So many people ask me that.

Benji B

So where do you get the inspiration for these things?

Steve Spacek

Sometimes I’ll get inspired by a sample or I might be messing about with a keyboard. Sometimes I’m out in a club and something banging is playing, but as I’m listening to it, in my mind I can hear what I would sing over it. So I have this little vibe and then the next day I’ll wake up and think, "I’ve got to make a tune out of that." In terms of writing, I approach it from all angles. I try to be open as much as possible. I want to be in a situation where the moment I hear something I can get something down as soon as possible. Those are the moments, the natural moment, when something hits you, trying to capture those moments. Back in the day I used to be self-conscious because people are quite critical. When you make music, you’re putting yourself out there and everyone sees something in what you’re doing. So it’s quite hard, but at the end of the day you’ve just got to say, "This is what I’m feeling and I don’t care if it sounds corny, as long as people see that it’s genuine." The one thing I try and stay away from – you can argue that with "Dollar" – is the politics. I want to write about, say, the corner of that chair, just for music’s sake. I was talking to my boy the other day, and I said, "Sometimes it jars me when people talk about songs. Because they say it’s all about the song, but I don’t believe that, to me it’s all about the music." When you hear something, are you in or not? When someone sings, are you in or not? If there’s an orchestra playing, are you feeling it? You hear those notes and you’re feeling it or you’re not.

Benji B

So in that respect, the voice is another instrument to you?

Steve Spacek

Exactly, I want it to be part of the whole picture. In the early days I didn’t want there to be too much focus on myself, I wanted it to be on the band. But that’s quite hard because you go places and they take your picture and they’re trying to put you in the middle, they want to put you forward. You’ve got this thing about the band, but as soon as you start singing, then obviously you’ve got this thing about being the frontman. My stage name being Steve Spacek and the band being named after that, it’s this whole thing. But for me, when I write, it’s about the whole picture, the music, I’m not trying to put across this message. But sometimes I’ll look back and realize it’s about things I’m going through with family or friends, and sometimes it’s just nonsense; but if I feel that, I want to put that down and create a vibe and if people are feeling that, they can get into it. Or they might not. You can’t please all the people all the time, but you’ve got to be true to yourself. I try to stay away from trying to preach and create some deep meaning because that’s not what it’s about for me. I’m just trying to create music and when I write I just want to feel it. I’m writing these lyrics, but really, when I write I just want to do it in a way that means I can feel pleasure, so I can feel that when I’m singing it. So even if I’m singing nonsense, I just want to feel the vibe of my voice within that whole setting. It’s as important to me as a bassline, as a drum kick, as a synth sound in the background or the spaces in between. It’s all one.

Benji B

I was having the D’Angelo’s Voodoo argument the other day with someone who will remain nameless. I’m just bringing that up as an example of something that people had a problem with because they said, "Where are the songs?" That’s a good example of a record where you’re listening to it more like the voice is an instrument or another layer.

Steve Spacek

Totally, when I listen to him I hear his voice and I like his writing but I get so much pleasure out of listening to the way he sings. He’s going to some crazy places and he’s feeling his soul music so deeply that it doesn’t matter what he’s trying to say. It’s just, "Sing man, sing anything, sing whatever comes out."

Benji B

But it must jar with you if someone is singing rubbish. Your songs do have substance and they do have themes even if parts of it are imaginary.

Steve Spacek

Sure, but sometimes I sing rubbish too.

Benji B

How do you find a balance between the two?

Steve Spacek

The balance is a whole package, so when you listen you hear the whole sound. That is a balance and I don’t know at what point I feel that it’s right, or when Morgan or Edmund feel that it’s right. Normally, we’ll be sitting in the studio and we’ve got this loop that is going 'round and 'round. Sometimes, like back in the day, we’d be in the studio with a fat J and it would be going 'round and 'round for days without us arranging. Maybe I’ll just sing a little line, just to get some voice on there and we’ll just be vibing on that. Sometimes it’ll be like, "You know what? Maybe we should put this out like it is so people can feel that." Maybe it’ll be that the bassline is nice and hot and the snares are cracking through and the pads are just taking you away.

Benji B

A more recent example of that is probably "3Hrs of Fun."

Steve Spacek

Yeah, certainly is. You want me to bust it on here?

Benji B

This isn’t really a song, it’s just a vibe.

Steve Spacek

It’s inspired by being in Plastic People.

(music: Steve Spacek - "3Hrs Of Fun" / applause)

Steve Spacek

As you can imagine when we put this groove together we were just letting it go 'round and 'round.

Benji B

So going back to the first album, Curvatia, even though it was quite minimal and you say you were just listening to grooves and stuff, it’s got this epic feeling to it, really uplifting feel. There’s so many different textures. How did you achieve that, what sort of equipment were you using at the time?

Steve Spacek

Well, essentially it was MPC and Logic. By that time we’d switched over to using Logic. The whole situation with Jason Knight, our original manager, and Morgan, we had this whole unit called Head On Management and we had this studio, which we used to share with this whole group of artists. At the time I was still using Cubase and I remember going in the studio and seeing Logic and it was one of the earliest Logics, Logic 1 or whatever. My boy Jeff Mann, who recorded all our stuff with us, we used to have these little things at each other, saying, "That’s just copying Cubase." Logic was Notator back in the day and it switched over, correct me if I’m wrong. But I began using Logic and that was it; hook, line and sinker, I was in. So we had the MPC and we had the Logic and we just combined the two.

Benji B

I remember going to see you live and being put in the picture because a lot of the things that I thought were sound effects or samples were actually Ed playing guitar. It’s not often when you see a three-piece [performance] that you see a producer, a vocalist and a guitar player, rather than a producer who plays MPC and keys, and there’ll be a percussion player or whatever. How instrumental was the guitar work in the album?

Steve Spacek

Well, it’s quite a lot. Eddie is an amazing guy, if you can get him down here some time he’s a man to have around. Musically, he’s in some deep places. I say he’s ill, he’s not ill. He’s got this illness that he catches every now and again, he’s a manic depressive. But I’ve learned so much off him and he tries to go all these different places. Because we’re trying to create this space, he’ll create all these lines and stuff, but it’s too much to put it all in one track. We’ll let Eddie play and we’ll lay down tracks and tracks. What he brings to the table is really important because in certain tracks I’ll say, "I can really feel Eddie’s vibe in that, it’ll really fill that space." He’s got quite a full-on vibe, and then me and Morgan will try to pull things back, create a music where it’s the only thing that’s there is what should be there - and no excess. That’s our thing. We sit there and we’re vibing in the studio but eventually you’ve just got to say, "This is over." It’s quite hard sometimes because you’ve got your creations and you want to keep tweaking and keep going.

Benji B

And the bass frequency is pretty important to you.

Steve Spacek

Oh yeah, has to be. Growing up with reggae and coming from a Jamaican background, the bassline is something that excites us. You know how it is, coming from London you go into a club and you hear the bassline and you can hear your ribcage vibrating. Go and hear Jah Shaka, which is a dubplate soundsystem, go and check that out and you know about immense power. It’s like a volcano in a dance. People are fainting. That has a big play on it. Also a lot of the dance music and the way it develops in the UK, it went onto jungle and stuff that was reggae-led, and the bassline always played a big part. We always try to make sure there was a line going through there. It’s like walking around and taking you somewhere, not just sitting there going 'boom, boom, boom' - which is cool, but I want the bassline to talk.

Benji B

This album came out on Island. Tell me about the distance between forming a group, finding your identity, going on a journey musically and then signing to major record label. What’s the experience like?

Steve Spacek

It’s quite blurry but I’ll try and work it out. First it was "Eve" and that whole experience there. Then thinking, "We’ve got to go down this road with an album," because this is quite a serious sound and we were getting good feedback and we really wanted to develop it. It was strange because we came with the "Eve" track and a lot of people were expecting an album straight away, but we hadn’t even made the album Curvatia. There was a few tracks that had been written, and "I Have A Daughter That Sings," which had been recorded in a different situation. So like a year, a year-and-a-half went by just putting some stuff together and meantime being courted by all these labels, one of which was Ross Allen’s label, Island Blue. Ross had been given this label at Island Universal and he was really into what we were doing. At the same time Mos Def had got some of the tracks we’d been working on, he’d got "Eve" and "Language." Tony had been in the States and he’d hooked up with this really cool girl called Santi White [Santigold], she was in a band called Stiffed. She was around the crew, Mos Def and A Tribe Called Quest and all those boys, and she was saying, "You’ve got to hear what these guys from the UK are doing." So he was interested and he was starting this label on Universal called Good Tree and that helped us with the whole Island situation because it was an endorsement. Being in the UK – and it’s probably the same if you’re in the States – to really jump to another level, you’ve got to get an endorsement from someone else. If people are checking you out in the States, then they think it’s cool.

Benji B

I remember in the '90s some people used to shrink-wrap their records, it made them look like they were imports from America. I know a lot of bands from America, from different genres maybe, they break in Europe and then come back. What does it feel like as an artist knowing that what you’re doing is good but it takes someone taking an interest, an artist like Mos Def or whoever, to hype it in America for people in your own country to know what you’re doing?

Steve Spacek

It’s quite hard, but it’s part of the battle, it makes it more interesting. Sometimes, if things are too easy, then you don’t really value your worth. Sometimes you’ve got to work your way around it because that’s just the way it is. Hopefully other things will come into play, too, that will help the whole thing. You just play music and you want people to see it for what it is, not deal with the whole politics and the labels. At that time a few other things were blowing up in the UK and we were being told our sound was really leftfield, a weird sound. I thought, "This ain’t no weird sound, there might be parts of it that are quite new, but it’s just a soul sound and we’re just interpreting it in our own way." A lot of people around us, a lot of our peers, chose to go down that more retro route. I’m sitting here with the laptop and all this equipment and the whole idea of being creative is to come up with something new and hopefully the industry could do something with it. I don’t know how to sell music, I just know how to make it and play it and sing. You want someone to meet you half way, so it’s quite a difficult process when you’re trying to shop your stuff around. But the good thing was Ross, and the situation with Mos Def really helped a lot. Ross had this thing on the radio station, I think it was GLR, and it was worldwide, too, and he was playing all these different types of music, similar to what Gilles and Benji are doing, spreading it around. Ross had this thing and he always used to champion us and when he had this Island Blue situation he said, "You’ve got to come on board." So that’s how we got into that and it was cool, it helped us a lot. So you’re talking to these guys about your music and your creativity, but it’s going over their heads. As I said before, you’ve got the music business and it’s literally music and business. It’s oil and water, they don’t go together. They’re somewhere else, one’s down there, the other’s over there [points in different directions]. You’ve got the figures and they’ve got to add up, and then there’s you, creating all this stuff, and you want people to understand what they’re dealing with, to put it out so people can buy it. So it’s quite a difficult vibe. There was us, Box Saga, Pay As You Go, there was so many people. Kirk Degiorgio was there, Custom Blue. I think there was about 40 different acts.

Benji Blue

And a lot of those records didn’t come out.

Steve Spacek

No, a lot didn’t. Troubleman...

Benji B

These are artists that are relatively underground. Having been on the majors and the independents, what was the bonus about that time? Did you get tour support, good promotion? Was there anything positive about that experience?

Steve Spacek

Yeah, it was good in terms of us being quite young and being in that environment. I think it’s good to experience all those places, whether it be a major label deal or an independent. It was cool, man, 'cause all of a sudden we’re in a situation where you’re talking about a massive budget. We come from the road and we’re in big fat studios and everything was available to us – orchestras, and so on. It was crazy, you could just go mad places. That was the plus side, but there’s always the other side. You’re dealing with these companies and they’ve got to sell and if they’re not interested or they don’t understand, to all intents and purposes it’s not happening. You’re fighting a losing battle.

Benji B

Looking back on it, is there anything you’d have done differently?

Steve Spacek

No, not really. I know now that was part of the journey and it helped to get me where I am now. I suppose, if we could have done a few more business things a bit more on it, that would’ve been a good thing. But, like I said before, it was a learning thing, it was all part of the journey. But no regrets, man, you can’t have any regrets. At the time we made a great album and I’m really happy about that because that’s really important. I have to try and put something across to the best of my ability and it’s the same for all of us, we have to try and do something the best we can, to give it all. And I feel at that time we really did. I think the resources available to us, we didn’t really waste anything. We spent a lot of money, there was a lot of money floating around, but it was good. If I could look back and say, "I wasn’t too sure about the album," then I would’ve done the album differently, but I love what we created back then, I feel it deeply. It’s cool.

Benji B

Which leads us nicely to the next question. As many people consider that album a classic in its own way, it’s very dear to a lot of people, what kind of pressure is there when you’ve got to come up with number two?

Steve Spacek

Yeah, there’s pressure, but you feel the pressure before you start doing it and you’ve got to put all that aside. I realize these things keep you humble and there’s never that pinnacle place. You reach certain levels as you go along and you’re always trying to go to that nirvana. So I remember periods when we weren’t doing music and it’s just business meetings and offices and hanging out and not really creating anything, thinking, "Ah, can I really do this?" A project’s coming up and you doubt yourself a little bit, and then you have to think of some of the things you’ve done in the past to remind yourself of where you’re at. Sometimes it doesn’t feel easy in a way, but when you’re in it, it does feel easy, when you’re in the studio, you’re like, "That’s that, that’s that." But in between there’s so many distractions it’s quite hard to imagine being in that place and getting in that situation.

Benji B

What is that zone and how do you find your zone?

Steve Spacek

A lot has changed now being in Australia, but it used to be being in a studio, locked away day and night for a few days and we're just getting down. No distractions, no phones, me and the boys, rinsing out all the directions we want to go. Like, we’ve got a few samples, a few sounds, a few lyrics and we just try things out and then just get it rolling. Basically, it’s that place where you’re going, "I can hear this," and then trying to get it down the way you can in your mind because that’s quite a hard thing. You can hear something in your mind and when you put it down, it winds up being something else. Sometimes, if you’re lucky, it’s something better, but sometimes you go to another place and it’s somewhere you don’t want to be and you have to pull yourself back and go, "How did I hear this in my mind?" Being in that really good place is being able to put all that stuff down how you hear it in your mind. This is how it’s flowing in my mind, this is the space, this is the swing. This is where the bass is going when I put it down like that, because it’s pure in my mind and hopefully it will still be pure. Ideally, I’m trying to create that environment. There’s no distractions, and usually that’s at night and you just want to go off in these different directions.

Benji B

This is Steve’s most recent album, which is out on Sound In Colour very shortly. It features a collaboration with, I believe, a guest lecturer from term one here, Leon Ware. How was that?

Steve Spacek

Leon Ware, the great. It was crazy, he’s so much fun to be around because he’s just full of music. We met him at Raphael Saadiq’s studio when we were working on his album and he was coming down and hanging out with all these people. There was a big grand piano in the live room and he’d just come down and play. He’s easy to hang out with, relaxed. He’s been there, he’s done it, there’s no angst. It’s just all about creating. It was big fun. The whole process was easy, too, because we had some beats floating around in Logic, I left him a few of the beats, let him chill with them, and he wrote. One night we were hanging out at his place and he said, "I’m feeling something on this track right now." He loaded it up on ProTools and just started laying down some harmonies. I was like, "Ahh, excellent. This is a man from way back in the day and he’s laying down some music. I’ve got to rise to this because this is a challenge. He’s written something, he’s sung down this vibe and I’ve got to take it away and create my vibe and we've got to do this duet."

Benji B

How did you meet Leon Ware?

Steve Spacek

It was through Mathieu Schreyer, Mr French, who’s based in L.A., and he’s hooked up with all these people and one day he met Leon. I don’t know how or where, but it was that thing of just hanging out.

Benji B

And this is a track on your new album. Have you got it for us?

Steve Spacek

I certainly have. It’s called "Smoke." I don’t know if anyone knows Leon, but he’s what we in London call a "gallist," he’s into the ladies, so he’s forever young. This is him talking about meeting this lady called Smoke.

(music: Steve Spacek feat. Leon Ware- "Smoke" / applause)

Benji B

So that’s "Smoke," featuring Leon Ware. And that's on the new album, Space Shift, which is coming out on an LA-based label.

Steve Spacek

It’s out already actually, it’s been out for a little while.

Benji B

Sound In Colour. So, after the Island thing you did another album, one for !K7, which is a pretty big European label. And after that, did you decide you wanted to do some solo stuff? How did you come to put out a solo album on an independent based in America?

Steve Spacek

That was that whole situation of moving away from London because I was hanging out in LA quite a lot with Mr French. At the beginning of this year I was sitting around with some tracks and ideas and these guys were really interested in doing this album. We hooked up from the GB situation last year, or I think it was EZP actually, "Simply So."

Benji B

He’s an artist on Sound In Colour.

Steve Spacek

Really amazing producer, young cat. We’d already done some stuff there but the whole idea was to do an album, a Steve Spacek album. For quite a few years, coming from a background of producing and also writing at the same time, people were always saying to me, "When are you going to do your own album?" So all of a sudden I’m sitting in LA and I’ve got all this time. Going back and forth, sometimes me and Morgan were in LA together, other times I’d be here on my own, then he’d be out. Everyone’s out doing their thing, Edmund’s off doing his thing. So I just thought, "Let’s do this album," quite a natural thing. Then Mathieu, Mr French, being the person he is, is just hooking up all these situations with these people.

Benji B

So who’s collaborating and producing on this album?

Steve Spacek

Well, there’s this young guy called Steve Brunner, amazing instrumentalist, producer and bass player. He’s about 19, maybe 20 now, but he’s got an old head on him. He produced a track called "Hey There" and he plays a six-string bass, but he plays the chords and he put this mad sound, and he puts the grooves together on the MPC. We’d hung out and listened to stuff, vibing at Raphael’s studio, and I knew if I was doing something, he was definitely going to come in. As I was going along the way, I was meeting these people and they’re playing me their music and I’m thinking, "I can imagine myself singing over that." If I can hear myself over it, then he’s in. So there’s him and there was me and Mr French hanging out in the studio together. And the "Thursdays" track was an idea I got from this guy called John, whose part of this other label from Ox. And he’s part of this LA vibe, this whole groove, and so we worked that. Then there’s the Leon Ware track and there’s this jam we put together called "Callin Yu," which is myself, Mr French, Leon Ware and Orin 'Afronaught' from the Bugz [In The Attic] all in the studio. Gary Dourdan from CSI, we’re all in his place, hanging out and we get on this groove, so I decided to put that on the album too. It was just an idea, a vibe. I wanted the album to not just be about songs, but about music, I want people to really feel that. At the same time I want to make sure there’s something on there that’s quite commercial, too, I want to reach out to a bigger audience. What else is there? There’s a song called "Look Into My Eyes," which is an old track recorded between myself and the Spacek guys in a live situation. Let’s make sure I’m not leaving anybody out. There’s my brother dBridge, we got down on "The Hills" and then there’s "Rapid Rate," GB, and not forgetting Jay Dee on the "Dollar" track.

Benji B

Now, Jay Dee opened you up to a whole new audience, certainly in the US. A lot of people know you through this remix of "Eve," so it must have been nice to link up.

Steve Spacek

It was overdue, really overdue. A lot of people probably know I’m bang into his sound. To me, it’s a real soul sound but it’s got that hi-tech feel as well, touching on Kraftwerk. Then there’s the feel of his music, the swing and the timing. Things are off but they’re in. I like that because it’s like life. Life is precise but it’s not precise all at the same time. Everything is made up of calculation but it’s also chaos, it just goes off, and I hear that in his music a lot.

Benji B

And how do you achieve that freeness when you’re working in a computer environment?

Steve Spacek

At the end of the day I know I’m working with this instrument and it’s a precision instrument so you’ve really got to project your soul into it. It’s about laying ideas and grooves down but not being too precious about them. Like, when you lay down that first drumkick and the snare together, and you’re rolling with them, but you don’t really want to tighten it up too much. But at the same time you’ve got to make sure there are certain elements that are precise so you lead people along, but you’ve got to make sure other things are loose and free. Combine that and it creates that effortless place of things being precise and loose. Like, the snare drum is right in the middle and it’s bang on, but the kickdrum is all the way back with the bassline. Then the vocals could be way ahead and together it creates this picture that’s moving around. It’s like clockwork, but it’s not.

Benji B

I’ve heard from some people you’ve collaborated with that you’re one of the very fastest writers around. You’ll go in, catch a vibe, sing it, out, done. What’s the point where you feel happy to let go and let it be? What’s the point where you think that it’s done? Are you quite easy about that stuff?

Steve Spacek

Yeah, I am, but I’m not sure. I don’t want to be sure, I don’t want to think, "This is it!" Even though I know I want to stop at some point. When I stop sometimes I’m not sure and in my mind I’m thinking I should’ve dealt with that a bit differently. But then I leave it because I’ve found in the past that when I go back and change things something is missing. So I just lay it down, warts and all, just lay it down raw. When I write it’s the same thing and I’ll think, "Maybe I should change that lyric there because it doesn't quite fit there." But then I like the way I’m singing it, the way it sounds, so it’s got to stay. There’s no time to delay, I want to hear myself over the whole thing, so you don’t want to deliberate too long.

Benji B

Talking about collaborating, there’s the whole experience of working with Raphael Saadiq. It’s not every day you get a phone call from Raphael Saadiq saying, "I want to fly you over to work with me for a month." How did that happen?

Steve Spacek

That was fun. That was through Mr French again, hanging out in LA Raphael’s got this studio down in the Valley and Matt had loads of our beats, stuff that me and Morgan had been doing and he’d been playing them around. He does this club on a Sunday, in Santa Monica, with this guy called Garth Trinidad on KCRW. They play a lot of European stuff, a lot of American stuff, stuff from all over the place. It’s a nice international vibe. Raphael came down one night and Matt hooked him up with a CD and he phoned Matt back and said, "We’ve got to get down on some of this stuff. I’m thinking of doing this album on a whole other side. I’m going to call it the Pookie Blue Room Number 10." So he’d make out it was something that had been going on for a while and this is Number 10 in the series. So he hooked up with him, he flew us over and we just worked in his studio on these beats. It was nice because he had all these people passing through. People were feeling our vibe. It was just good to be in that environment, you’ve got all these idols walking through like George Clinton, everyone, Q-Tip, Rasheed or Common, Jay Dee. It’s pure inspiration. You’re sitting there with your laptop and these guys are vibing off your beats.

Benji B

So were you producing for him or songwriting for him?

Steve Spacek

Just producing. A bit of songwriting, but most of the songwriting was for ones I did myself, so maybe I’d write down a verse or a hook line. Then Rae would come in on his own and hook the studio up and just chill on the sofa and vibe on what I’d laid down before and what Morgan laid down. Generally, he’d leave us to our own devices, he’d be in there doing stuff and every now and then he’d come in and get down on a track that we’d done. Quite loose. We were just trying to feel our way through it.

Benji B

And that definitely opened a few doors and opened your eyes as well in terms of the work ethic in L.A., people’s enthusiasm to collaborate as well, which isn’t always the way where you’re from.

Steve Spacek

No, it’s different. What do they call it? The 'tall poppy syndrome.' Where I come from there’s a lot of talent and a lot of creative people but you can’t really get too ahead of yourself because people are looking to knock you down. In a way it’s a shame because when you’re creating you want to be able to go to a place where that is. And sometimes I’ll see where people make this album and people will say in the write-up that it’s too self-indulgent. What do you mean "self-indulgent?" If you’re making music you have to be self-indulgent, it’s about creating something, it’s about being honest, being you. No matter how basic or intricate or advanced it is you’ve got to indulge yourself. Look at someone like Bjork, that’s self-indulgent but that’s what I like about it. When I listen to her I get great pleasure because I know she’s not holding back. She’s making the music she wants to make and she’s putting it out there. You get that kind of vibe, but when you come to L.A., and in the States in general, people are quite intrigued because to me it’s a soul sound. This is where the sound comes from originally. It’s quite weird to come here from the UK and to be making soul music. The feedback you get is quite important and there’s so much vibe, there’s so much encouragement and enthusiasm. It’s a strange environment to be in and it’s refreshing. People aren’t looking at you in a certain way and thinking, "Oh, he’s getting ahead of himself."

Benji B

With the exception of four or five household names that are soul music exports from the UK there’s not really an industry in the UK, or Europe in general. How do you combat that? You’ve had to travel.

Steve Spacek

Yeah, being here, I guess. That’s not a bad thing because the globe is shrinking and you’ve got to put yourself about.

Benji B

Talking of which, you’ve relocated again to Australia, which is about as far away from the UK as you can get.

Steve Spacek

Yeah, it’s on the other side completely.

Benji B

And how’s that?

Steve Spacek

I’m having a great time out there, a great place. I feel like there’s a lot of space. I realized that when I was in London, those days prior to moving to LA, it was getting quite intense. I was at a stage where I was like, "If this carries on much longer, I’m going to have to go and get a day-job." I’ve seen so many people around me who are amazing talents but at the end of the day they’ve got to pay the bills, they’ve got to go out and get a day job. Then the whole creative side gets put by the wayside because you’ve got to keep paying those bills. I managed to hang in there, but, you know, London is so expensive. But I was thinking, "I’ve got to keep doing this, I have to keep making music at all costs, this is what I do." So I had to make that move and being in LA all of a sudden there’s just all these people who hang out and make music and it was great, it was keeping things rolling.

Benji B

There’s people sitting in this room from literally countries all over the world, different cities, big and small. There’s this idea that it’s really difficult to get on unless you’re in one of the major cities, a New York or an LA with its own industry and recording infrastructure. But that’s a bit of a myth and you’re proving so. How is the feeling of plugging out of that, because you’ve spent all this time in L.A. and London and suddenly now you’re in Sydney, which is obviously a big city, too, but in terms of the people you’re communicating with, they’re on the other side of the world. How has that affected the way you do your business?

Steve Spacek

I’m just on a plane a lot more now, and I feel like I’m flying more than I’m on the ground. It does take a toll on you because I’ve got family, too, and I’ve got to make sure I’m solid there. It’s hard work, but at the same time hard work is fulfilling, so it’s not easy. Some people are lucky, they can literally buy themselves a laptop and bust two tunes and a man hears it and all of a sudden it’s in the top 10. It happens, it’s luck. But where I am, I don’t feel it’s about luck, it’s about hard work. The way things are set up with the Internet you can get where you want to get, but it is hard work. My mum always used to say, "The road is not for the swift, it’s for those who want to endure." I can say that’s for me, it’s all about endurance. I’ve been doing this all my life, but seriously since 1990, and sometimes I feel like I’ve just begun. I don’t know, when you get to a point where you feel like you’re a veteran and you’ve been doing this for years. I feel like I’m still starting. It’s a long road and it’s hard work and it’s good work. I’m always trying to see it from different angles, the angle that even though it’s hard work and I have to put down a lot, I feel blessed as well. I get to fly around and meet all these people, be in these different places. So it’s balancing out and seeing that it’s a good thing, but at the same time it’s not easy. But if you’re prepared to put in the time and you’ve got some talent, then you can go some places.

Audience Member

Is that a bootleg and how did that come about? You mentioned before Mos Def had your song and was interested. Why was it never released initially?

Steve Spacek

Because, as I mentioned before, the whole Island situation fell apart. Things that we had planned were just out of the way, all these ideas and all these masters that we had floating around. Mos came to London, I think for some kind of award. I think maybe the Mobo’s was just starting off, or maybe the Mercury [Awards], maybe not. He was in the studio, he was just vibing down with us and we planned on doing another mix of it with him rapping, because obviously he’s feeling it and it’s like him endorsing it. So he was in the studio on the drum kit, just hanging out in the studio and he laid it down and we have had it ever since. That would have been another mix coming out of thw whole "Eve" thing but obviously it fell through. Also Island was changing, but Mos Def was also getting more into his acting side, so Good Tree, the label he was starting, it never really got off the ground. He had some other acts, I don’t really know who, but it didn’t really take off because he got into his acting and that was it. All that other stuff fell by the wayside.

Audience Member

Listening to some of your sounds I couldn’t help think of your fellow UK artist Omar. Any plans to get with him for some vocals or production, because as I listen to it I couldn’t help thinking of that link?

Steve Spacek

There’s no plans but I could bump into him tomorrow and it’s on. I don’t know him personally, though I’ve met him a couple of times and he’s a heavyweight cat. But he’s on his own journey, he’s his own cat, but when I look at him my heart bleeds. Check it out, how can there not be a situation where someone like him can come through on a proper level? When he came with that "There’s Nothing Like This" track, straight away that’s a mad talent and I feel he’s been neglected, and I feel that he’s been let down by the British music scene.

Benji B

He’s another perfect example of someone who’s appreciated far more here in America than the UK.

Steve Spacek

Totally. Every time I come here, this is the only time I hear about Omar, really. He releases these albums and funnily enough I always bump into him down at [Notting Hill] Carnival or see him perform. I’m walking along and I always bump into Omar for some reason, but it’s only when I come out to America that I hear people give him props. It’s a sad thing because they ain’t got no time for him. Even in the mainstream, you talk to certain people and they say, "Who?" But if you’re working in the music business you should know about him, it’s part of your job, because he is definitely a heavyweight cat, he’s made his mark. So going back to your question of hooking up with him, I’d like to but that would be a natural process, just something that happens along the way. But just listen to his voice, man. There’s no room right now.

Audience Member

He’s tight.

Steve Spacek

No doubt. When I look at someone like that they give me inspiration, I look up to him because I remember him doing his thing and looking at that and hoping to be in his situation of doing his music and putting it out, and it being around the world. But it’s definitely a travesty.

Audience Member

Listening to your music anyone can speculate, there’s obviously a lot of soul influence but also an ethereal spacey sound which is dope. I don’t think anyone touched on that, especially dealing in a soul basis and using more electronics. But I’m curious who in this vast world are your favourite producers, particularly the ones who influenced your sound?

Steve Spacek

Well, straight away there’s Jay Dee. And I’ll tell you another interesting cat is Giorgio Moroder. He did that electronic disco sound back in the '70s with the Donna Summer track. I remember talking to Benji just before and being really young in the summer holidays, they’d bring the soundsystem into school and it’d be pumping out music, all sorts, loads of reggae, whatever, soul. And then this track came on and I was five years old and I walked in and "boo-boo- boo-boo" [imitates the disco beat] and it just blew me away, I didn’t understand it. And I know now from then onwards there was a sound that was always there, but I couldn’t get my head around it, but when I heard it, it was speaking to me. So I think that really influenced me because as a producer that was some sick shit because when I listen to all the stuff going around him at the time, I’d like to meet the guy and ask him what possessed him. Maybe it was the equipment – I’m sure some of the new stuff that was coming out – but what possessed him to come out with that groove at that time, so early way back when. It’s like when I think about Kraftwerk, what made them think of that groove, that robot shit "boo-boo tch-tch" [imitates Kraftwerk beat], what made them think of that at that time? It’s trying to get inside their minds. It’s incredible because that’s like when you look back in history and see these incredible leaps. I remember being a kid and seeing on TV about the microchip. "It’s the size of a matchstick and it can make a million calculations in one second.” What do they mean, a million calculations in one second? I don’t understand. Then all of a sudden there’s a calculator come out and then there’s Speak & Spell. Then I’m watching Tomorrow’s World, which is this really good programme on in London and this dude is talk about a sampler, E-mu. And he’s got this big bad black box with a piano on it and he’s going, "OK, you break the glass." I’m going off on a tangent but there’s so many things influencing me all the time, even when it’s producers, certain things that happen, whether they be on TV or somewhere, or someone shows me a bit of equipment. But with producers, there’s definitely Jay Dee, definitely Giorgio Moroder, Kraftwerk. Also a lot of the jazz-funk sound in the '80s, because that was really big in the UK, people like Kleeer and SOS Band. Marvin Gaye when he came with "Sexual Healing," because I was really into electro at the time, all the bodypopping and that. Then all of a sudden there’s this guy coming with this really soulful track, but it’s got an 808 kick going on with it [imitates "Sexual Healing" beat]. I remember the first time I heard that, it’s like Sunday afternoon, Robbie Vincent, he used to do this soul show, and I listened to it. Marvin hadn’t been around in a while, he’d been out in the wilderness, then this dude somewhere in Northern Europe found him hanging out, took him over. All of a sudden there was "Sexual Healing." Man, there’s just like so much influence behind it, it makes so much sense. Looking back on all the Tribe stuff, De La Soul, a lot of the early hip-hop stuff from the early '90s. A lot of us didn’t realize Jay Dee was behind a lot of that stuff, his sound was there from back in the day. I didn’t even know about Jay Dee back then, but all I know his sound is reaching out to me. I’ve got so much music to make I ain’t got time to find out who did what. But it’s cool, I’ve got all these cats around me like Morgan, Benji, who all collect music and I’ll be like, "What’s this, what’s that?" And they’ll show me stuff and so the stuff that reaches out to me, I can get an idea of all these different producers. But I’m a bit of an airhead in that respect. I’m sure there’s a lot of other cats as well, like GB. I’ve only known his stuff for the last couple of years but he’s definitely an influence, and he’d probably say the same about me. When I hear his music I think, "OK, I really want to be in those places, I want to be a part of that." Also in the early '90s, all those Detroit cats, especially people like Fingers Inc, I remember that sound, Bam Bam "Where’s Your Child," A Guy Called Gerald "Voodoo Ray" really influenced a lot of what I do now, me and my whole crew.

Benji B

Steve, thank you very, very much.

[applause]