The Diplomats

As part of the Red Bull Music Academy World Tour in 2011, five hip-hop legends took to the couch over five days, discussing five classic albums from New York’s five different boroughs.

Representing Harlem, the Diplomats held court at the Harlem School of the Arts with hip-hop’s official gossip queen and radio presenter, Miss Info, and discussed everything from their time at Roc-A-Fella to recording Diplomatic Immunity.

Hosted by Miss Info Audio Only Version Transcript:

MISS INFO

Harlem School of the Arts. Did you guys ever come by here? Actually, I’ve never been in this building.

Cam’ron

I’ve been to a couple wakes next door.

Zek

Yeah, a couple wakes.

Juelz Santana

I swear to God, all of us, we Harlem from the heart. I never knew this was a school right here.

Cam’ron

I didn’t even know what was going on when they said meet here for a school.

Juelz Santana

We just say, only time we ever posted up on this block across the street, God bless, is a funeral or a wake.

MISS INFO

Exactly, Benta’s Funeral Home. Legendary funeral home.

Juelz Santana

Yeah, you know, and the church.

MISS INFO

Right, and the church.

Juelz Santana

But this is dope, being in here for the first time. It’s beautiful.

MISS INFO

Jimmy goes to church, what, at Christmas and New Year’s, right? That’s basically it?

Jim Jones

Now, don’t put me out there like that.

Juelz Santana

Do a jab.

MISS INFO

He would always tell me that.

Jim Jones

I say my prayers and I try to get to church. I try. But I definitely, definitely made a tradition that we try get to church for New Year’s above all, no matter what goes on. And that’s been a tradition that me, Cam, Juelz, Zek, we all started years ago.

Zek

You don’t have to be in church to have church.

MISS INFO

That’s true. But I do think that it’s kind of weird to be here in Harlem. You guys are, obviously, from here and know every nook and cranny of Harlem, but you’ve never been inside this arts school. Do you feel like Harlem is a very different place now? Like, are you a stranger in Harlem?

Cam’ron

Never could be a stranger, but it’s changing. But that’s like if you’re not around, you’re not going to see the changes. We see the changes as they happening, so I like the change. It’s pretty cool to have Applebee’s on 2 and 5th, these little restaurants. They cleaned it up, I think that’s cool.

Juelz Santana

Gentrification, that’s what they call it.

MISS INFO

It is, yeah. But has it changed like you were you from ten, 15 years ago?

Juelz Santana

I ain’t gonna front. Ten, 15 years ago I probably wouldn’t have liked the change, but just being a little older, you know, maybe having kids and understanding that things have to change, and maybe change for the better is maybe good. But I mean, being young and just running around Harlem I definitely think that we got some of the glory days.

Cam’ron

The biggest change is the cops. You can’t even stand on the corner and eat some chips, man. It’s crazy. Like, they run down on you for anything. I’m in the back of a car, drinking out of a styrofoam cup, which was juice, and I got a ticket. And I’m not even on the street. That’s how ridiculous it is. Yeah, I hate the cops, it’s crazy.

MISS INFO

 What? What did it say on the ticket?

Juelz Santana

 It’s a beat walk for heavy drinking.

MISS INFO

Wait, so you’re allowed to drink out of an open container, like, juice?

Cam’ron

You can’t even have like a styrofoam cup.

MISS INFO

Oh, OK.

Juelz Santana

They got a new law called... what is it? Just being publicly intoxicated. Now, you don’t even have the liquor in your hand, but just because you outside while you drunk, you can [get a ticket].

MISS INFO

So, how do you get home from the bar?

Juelz Santana

It’s no wins, that’s my point. It’s a set-up.

MISS INFO

But let’s compare to back when you guys were first coming together, first coming out. What were you doing on the corner then? Just compare from now to then.

Jim Jones

Cases of champagne on the floor, styrofoam cups, weed in the air, hustling. Girls walking by, it was a little bit different, especially at summertime. Summertime is the best time in Harlem. I used to look forward to the summertimes, at least the days that we was here and we wasn’t on the road.

Juelz Santana

Now, you know what changed a lot too? Block parties. They shut the block parties down at six o’clock now. Block parties used to last till 12, one in the morning.

Zek

Four, four, five.

Juelz Santana

Yeah, depending on whose block it was, now it’s like six o’ clock. Like he said, it’s 40 police throughout the block, once they say “Go!” you either go or you go to jail.

MISS INFO

So, do you feel like there could have been a Dipset in 2011? Like, could that have even happened? Would you have been different people?

Juelz Santana

Oh, we like the renaissance. See, we still here right now.

MISS INFO

Like, the way that you guys basically taught a generation about your lifestyle in Harlem. If you had more restrictions, you wouldn’t have even lived that lifestyle.

Cam’ron

Yeah, I ain’t gonna lie, it’s tough outside. It’s tough. Yeah, we used to be on 145th and Broadway, doing some wild stuff, so I don’t even think you could do that, what we was doing back then.

Jim Jones

We had the beach chairs out there, remember?

Cam’ron

Oh yeah, it was mean.

MISS INFO

Beach chairs on Lenox Avenue?

Jim Jones

On 145th.

MISS INFO

On 145th.

Juelz Santana

A lot of things changed, but don’t get it twisted, the kids are still wild.

MISS INFO

OK.

Juelz Santana

The generation, they probably starting actually younger, I think, than our age. Because now you got them at nine and ten, they know everything, you know, some of them in gangs. Just as much as you got the ones that’s going down the right path, you still got a set of kids that’s really, like, wild.

MISS INFO

It’s almost like the way that you guys had more time, let’s say, just using the block party as an example, you had more time, you had until 4 AM to start some shit, right? Now, everybody has to condense it, everything is moving faster. So if you’re wild, then you have to get wild faster. You’re doing your dirt quickly.

Juelz Santana

Oh, they don’t mind. That’s what I’m saying, it’s like that. They getting wild faster, and wilder.

Zek

It was because before you had to go outside to see what’s going on. Now, you just turn on the internet and you get wild in your house, “Oh, this what they doing out there?”

Juelz Santana

Or you used have to go outside for beef, now you get into beef on the internet and when you go outside it’s like, “What’s popping?”

Zek

Where the beef?

Juelz Santana

It’s kind of like a change, but it’s just, like, the same thing.

MISS INFO

The other thing I think that was different for you guys is you came into your teens right after an era, for Harlem, that was legendary, right? So you guys were living basically the lifestyle that you watched growing up, which might never happen again. Those days of Alpo [Martinez] and Rich Porter and seeing a drug dealer on the street.

Juelz Santana

I’m going to cut you off, Cam and Jim are a little bit older than me, so they might…

Cam’ron

I don’t remember Rich Porter or Alpo.

MISS INFO

But you were hearing the stories and you were seeing the cars and you hearing about the parties.

Cam’ron

Yeah, of course. That story legendary, but I don’t remember meeting one of them.

[crosstalk]

MISS INFO

 I don’t know what’s going on here, but Jimmy, you’re about to be put in detention.

Jim Jones

Huh?

MISS INFO

We’re in school.

Juelz Santana

He thought I was a trying to call him a old hat just now.

MISS INFO

That’s what you get with the haircut.

Juelz Santana

They always knew I was the young one, the baby, you know what I’m saying? Young fella.

MISS INFO

Yes, you were always the baby.

Juelz Santana

Still a young fella.

MISS INFO

So, could you talk about the influence that the Harlem streets had on what you wanted to talk about? What you were influenced by, what you aspired to, what your goals were. Because you were seeing more like a wild lifestyle, extravagance, fashions, and all of this stuff that we will never sort of see on the streets like that again.

Jim Jones

We were fortunate enough to put the official soundtrack to Harlem, as far as painting the picture of what we witnessed. Our good times, our bad times, the people that we looked up to, the things that we saw when we looked out our window, the things that we did when we came outside. This is what we put all into our music, and we was fortunate enough to be able to witness an era. Might not have been a part of the era, but we was fortunate enough to witness an era that led us to do what we doing today. Like, we were lucky. Where we from, you got a chance to sell drugs, or you got a chance to make it out of the hood by going to school. Going to school’s usually not the first option. Selling drugs is. When we got famous and when we got our first deal, this was in between of like, it’s either to make money we gonna go hard on these streets, or we gonna take this opportunity serious, and go all the way to the top and make some money. Let them know how instrumental the streets was to us, and how we would like to give back, and maybe we could lead by example.

MISS INFO

Can you give me an example, specifically of the things that you saw coming up that you were like, “One way or another, maybe it’s going to be through rap, I’m going to live like that, that’s what I want?”

Jim Jones

 In my hood there was dude named Big Dave, God bless him, he probably is one of the richest people to come out of Harlem from hustling and things like that, there’s a couple of them that I know of top. I forgot what the LL cover it was, but…

Cam’ron

When he was standing on top of the BMW?

Juelz Santana

No, the Benz, he had a black Benz, but that was my man, Big Dave’s black Benz, that LL used for his cover.

MISS INFO

Borrowed it.

Juelz Santana

Borrowed for the cover, it was just things like that. You got the hustlers that had the rappers, like sunning them, they had them under their wing and things like that. I’m just like, “Wow! They get money, they got access to the music.” The rap business, who we looked up to, so when you see the hustlers got them under their wing, you’re like, “Maybe we need to look up to him instead of him.”

MISS INFO

Interesting. That was a guy from Harlem, he was funding somebody from Queens, OK?

Zek

Oh, Miss Info, you telling me you like to take it from Queens?

MISS INFO

I mean, that’s how you put it, basically, lending him cars.

Juelz Santana

LL was big influence on us.

Zek

Miss Info, we was out of here. Listen, it’s Cam’s fault. He pulled his hamstring ’cause we was gonna go pro. That’s what really happened. We was out of here. We went to that one game, where was it at, St. Marks or something? And he pulled his hamstring, so that’s what led us to the other two options.

Juelz Santana

I ain’t gonna say I’m happy he pulled his hamstring but I couldn’t play basketball. So if he wouldn’t have pulled his hamstring and went the rap way, I probably would have never met him for that ’cause I came a little bit later.

MISS INFO

In hindsight, do you think that he had the discipline to be an NBA player?

Jim Jones

You don’t need discipline to be an NBA player.

Cam’ron

If you are nice, it don’t matter what you do. I went to college but I ain’t graduated high school. If you’re nice, it doesn’t matter who you are.

[laughter]

Zek

Wait, woah, woah. That’s pretty odd.

Jim Jones

Basketball is the billion dollar sport, so if you excel at it, they’re going to make sure that you get they.

Zek

Act like you ain’t hear that!

MISS INFO

You don’t have basketball players from high school that are now like in complete bankruptcy?

Jim Jones

If you don’t have the know how to save your money and do something with it, of course, you’re going to spend it all.

Zek

It ain’t just baskeball players in that position.

MISS INFO

That’s true. A lot of rappers true, but…

Zek

A lot of everybody.

[laughter]

Jim Jones

Recession.

MISS INFO

Thankfully, thank you Cam’ron’s hamstring, things did go a different direction.

Jim Jones

But surely his hamstring and Biggie Smalls for keeping his word after he passed away was the two reasons that we are here today.

MISS INFO

Yeah, there were so many crazy things that came together at the right time for Cam to hook up with Untertainment and Biggie and be part of that. So I think a lot of people know that history but I kind of want want to get into when you guys all became a collective group, right? It’s wild to think that it was about eight years ago but Diplomatic Immunity was 2003.

Jim Jones

 So you mean, coming together doing the album? ’Cause this is something that has been going since we graduated from high school. It was Legacy before that. Remember it was Legacy before the Diplomats? Then Cam said: “Yo, somebody’s got that name trademarked already. We can’t use Legacy, we gotta do something else.”

MISS INFO

Legacy is horrible, what?

Juelz Santana

Everything happens for a reason.

MISS INFO

Like, thank got Legacy was already trademarked.

Cam’ron

You tell me, 17, 18 years old, like it sounded good then.

Jim Jones

You had a headband, T-shirts.

Juelz Santana

Look, names is going back now to Wiz Khalifa, now you’ve got stuff out there, it’s like the names that… Not to say I like that, but names are kind of going back to the way they were. It’s like now back in the days that names are getting a little bit more different, like just Cam, Juelz, now it’s Wiz Khalifa, that’s not really a name that you kind of would have just picked five years ago. Seriously, I don’t think.

MISS INFO

I mean, there are definitely trends, but I think that for the Diplomats, again, whether it’s fate or just everything happening, you know, at the right time. The imagery was perfect. Like, who came up with the logo for The Diplomats?

Jim Jones

Digga.

MISS INFO

Really? Six Figga Digga.

Jim Jones

It was Digga. We all came with a little bit, but Digga was the one to bring the dollar bill, like, “We need to go with this with the Diplomats.”

MISS INFO

And that’s just to clarify, a producer who started with Untertainment and then he was also producing for you guys afterwards. But, really? So is that why he at one time claimed that he owned the trademark, because he came up with that logo?

Jim Jones

He owned a silkscreen machine, I don’t know if he owned a trademark.

[laughter]

Shout outs to Digga, man. He was definitely a part of this Diplomat history in the beginning stages.

Cam’ron

 I’m a keepin’ a 100. Digga, he didn’t want to go get the Diplomat tattoo, talking about, “Well, when Jim gets it together and Juelz learns how to rap right, then I’ll go get a tattoo. I’m not with all that.” You know, he was like, the businessman. He didn’t really see all that. I’m like, “Yo, man!” He’s like, “I’mma do Six Figga Entertainment.” This is my man, we cool now, I’m just telling you a story. He’s like, “I’mma do Six Figga Entertainment.” I’m like, “I don’t even like the way that sounds. You stopping at six figures, and I ain’t even really with that six figure joint. So, I already don’t even like the way your company sounds. I’mma take the Diplomats name, you take Six Figga, and I’mma go this way, you go that way.” ’Cause we started falling out over, you know, like the artists and everything, trying to get the company to go. Then, when we was poppin, he’s like, “I own The Diplomats, and they owe me money and yadda, yadda.” We cool now, I’m just telling a story.

MISS INFO

You guys knew each other for a long time. How far back do Cam and Jimmy go?

Jim Jones

Age ten, 11?

Cam’ron

Maybe eight or nine. His grandmother and my grandmother lived in the same building. So, you know how you go to your grandmother’s house on the weekend? We always seen each other, no homo, every weekend.

MISS INFO

And what about Zek?

Jim Jones

Zek, I knew Zek literally from eight. We went to summer school together. That’s how I met Zek in summer school, Catholic school.

Cam’ron

And he from the Eastside, too. I met Zekey when I was about 13, 14.

MISS INFO

And the baby, Juelz? When did you guys meet him?

Cam’ron

I met him when I just finished my first album, going into my second album. My man Tobe, I knew Tobe since I was five years old. Like, me and Tobe went to kindergarten together, graduated elementary together, then he went to another school, whatever, but we always stayed in contact. He kept telling me about Juelz, and Juelz was in a deal, and the deal was messed up that he was in, and he was in a group. I heard the group, and Juelz’s partner wasn’t as good as Juelz, I felt. So I was like, “Yo! You know I know you loyal, but you should try and work with us and get something poppin’.” And that was that. But, Tobe kept telling me about him, but I’m like, “Look, man, let me get my thing together. I only got one album out, let me get it together.” So, I fell asleep in my car one day, Tobe was driving, I woke up, he woke me up, he like, “Yo! Here go my man in the back seat right now, ready to rhyme.” I’m like, God, I’m looking at him like, “Yo, man! I don’t got time.” He was 16.

Juelz Santana

Tobe had just called me downstairs. He like, “Yo! Come down.” No, he called me on the phone. He said, “I’m driving around the block, Cam’s sleeping. Come downstairs.” And like he said, I was in a group, my partner wasn’t home yet. Shout out to my partner, Malik, at the time. So, I came downstairs, I got in the car. Like he said, Cam was sitting in the passenger seat, dead sleep. He woke up wiping his face, or whatever the case. And he just gaped, he didn’t even really look at me.

[crosstalk]

Cam’ron

You gotta realize in Harlem, like before Ma$e, we used to think like Harlem got the jinx. Everybody from Brooklyn get on, and Queens was poppin’. This person’s poppin’ from Staten Island, and Long Island, like, Big L and Gruff was our rappers, but it was never like nothing national. So we was like, “We got the jinx on us.” So, after Ma$e, we was like, “Yes, the jinx over.” So I got everybody now in Harlem trying to rap to me, so I’m like, “I ain’t got time for this.”

Juelz Santana

Yeah, but I knew that look he had, ’cause he looked at Tobe while he was driving, like, “Oh, you really just gonna drive over here and got this little n---a in the back of my car?” But I knew that was my only chance. He said, “Nah, this is my cousin I was telling you about. Rap.” So I rapped.

MISS INFO

So, you had to rap for a guy who had just woken up and was grumpy as hell, and did not want you to be sitting next to him?

Juelz Santana

So, I had to be kinda good, right?

Cam’ron

I was tight, and then he start rapping, I was like, “Hey, yo! Shorty, nice.”

Juelz Santana

But he didn’t show me that. He didn’t really show no emotion. I just got out the car, and kinda waited for Tobe to call me.

Cam’ron

I went back to the crib, I told Jim, ’cause me and Jim was at the same, I was like, “Yo! It’s this young kid that Tobe got uptown. He’s poppin’.”

Jim JOnes

I remember the bars. The bars you said. He said, “I keep guns in my trunk, when I go swimming I keep guns in my trunks.”

[laughter]

Cam’ron

Nah, you know the line that got me? I’m gonna keep it 100 when he said something about, “We still stealing cable, we got the chip in the box.” And everybody was stealing cable at that time. We got mad free cable, so I was feeling that. [points in the audience] Just real quick, my n---a Tobe right here.

MISS INFO

It’s very important to make a note of the fact that there are people that I have literally known for 15 years as your friends. Like, the same people all the time, the same faces. Whether it’s Tito, definitely a very tight crew. But, if you could just really quick give us some background on what was the group that you had before, how did you even get on?

Juelz Santana

 Actually, shout out to my partner, and even once Cam told him that he wanted to kinda push forward with me and not my partner, it was something that I sat down and talked with my partner about. And it was something that we both thought was the best thing to do ’cause at that time I hadn’t known Cam. So, it was a move that I was making on a person that was like my brother. So, we sat down, we chopped it up, we both understood that it would be the best move for both of us. We actually had a little deal, like Cam said, it wasn’t a good deal. We was real young, like 15, I was still kinda worried about what was going on in the street till I met Cam and I saw that it was really something that could be bigger than just, if you know, it was something that I put my all into. And I still got a lot of discipline from Cam, ’cause I wasn’t fully focused. Like, I had good rhymes, but I didn’t have that many rhymes. So, Cam always had that tough love on me the way it was like. Like I said, I tell people the story all the time. There was times we would be on the road, on the tour, and if I ain’t had a new rhyme written, I couldn’t go to the club. I had to stay on the tour bus, and write the rhyme, know what I’m saying?

Jim Jones

Tell ’em about Chicago. That’s like, the most important song.

Cam’ron

Nah, like, it was a few. Like, I’mma keep all his stupid-ass songs was under pressure like a shot clock. Like, we was living in Chicago. We all get dressed for the club, he told us early, he like, “Nah, I finished this song.” So, we getting dressy like we are, we like, “Nah, throw the beat on. This finished?” He throw it on, he like, “Uh, uh, uh.” It was supposed to be a finished song. We like, “Yo! We bring you something back. Knock that out, whatever.” Word! And it was “Gangsta Music,” it was some Dipset anthem, though.

Juelz Santana

It paid definitely. Always paid off.

Cam’ron

 He was in my house, I said, “Look, we got to be at Funkmaster Flex at seven o’clock.” It was like three o’clock. I said, “We need a new song, man.” He wrote it and like, “Well, no, you can’t go with me to the store. We’ve got to go at seven o’clock, we’ve got four hours, we’ve got to record it.”

MISS INFO

You’re one of those people that need pressure in order to work.

Juelz Santana

I definitely think I could come through in the pressure time. I wouldn’t say I need it. At that time I was still young, just getting into it, you know?

MISS INFO

So Jimmy says it was actually Cam and his whole attitude of intimidation.

Juelz Santana

Tough love is sometimes, you may not want it from some people, but when there’s some people that’s giving you tough love for a good reason. And like I say, he was older than me, he had been through a lot more than me in the game. So, I respected it, I was a fan of his before I met him. So, like I said, it was a learning process for me, and every bit of it paid off.

MISS INFO

At the same time, who puts pressure on you?

Jim Jones

Cam walk on in the studio right now, it’s pressure on n---as, like, “I gotta get my verse done fast.” ’Cause Cam come in and do his verse in three minutes, and have you looking crazy, like, “Yo! You gonna do this or what?” You be in and sweating, still to this day. I go to his house there before, I be like sweating in the basement, like, “Yo, I gotta get my shit together.” He a perfectionist when it comes to music, and he don’t like to waste time.

Cam’ron

I keep it a 100 when I say like the Raw Report put pressure on me. When I get on a flight and read the magazines with boats costing 22 million, and jets, and play. I’m like, “You’ve got to catch up. Read the Raw Report, they keep you on point every month.”

MISS INFO

Well, it’s interesting that you say that, because I do know that you would always know about all of these, sort of, material possessions, or different lifestyles that were like rich and fabulous, but it’s not necessarily the fame that puts the pressure on you, it’s the lifestyle. Would you rather take that than the fame?

Cam’ron

I mean, what’s that line you you said, in this new song? “Money for fame.”

Jim Jones

I’d rather pray for money before I pray for fame, because I figure with the money I could pay for fame.

Cam’ron

Yeah, like if you got money, you could pay to be famous. Now, what did Paris Hilton do? You could pay the famous people just to stand next to them. The Kardashians is all famous and rich just like from knowing somebody’s relative, because her father’s father owns motels, you make money. You could be famous, but having money is two totally different things.

MISS INFO

Obviously, before you were on Sony, then you made the transition over to Roc-A-Fella. That was a life-changing transition. And it also changed, I think, everything for the rest of the crew. I mean, yes, you guys already knew each other, you were already working together, but life was much different on Roc-A-Fella, correct?

Cam’ron

Yes, sir. It was just good energy. You know, we on Sony, we fighting for spins, they not doing the videos right, you know? Un[tertainment] lost his deal, S.D.E. didn’t do the numbers that we wanted, and then we had somebody that we used to hustle for in the number one spot in the rap business, which was Dame Dash. We kinda had a little falling out over something in the street years ago, but Harlem dudes are stubborn. We won’t apologize till it’s like, “Man, you know what? Just forget it, I’m sorry.” So, me and Dame fell out over something in the streets. So, when I started doing my music thing, and he started doing his career at Roc-A-Fella, it took off. And I was at the point in my career where I kinda hit a brick wall, and I’m like, “I did a lot of things for Dame, now he gonna have to hear my ‘sorry’ at least.” So, I went and apologized, and he’s like, “Yo! It ain’t nothing, Cam. Come on, let’s go.” And that was pretty much it. You’re not going to have too many people in the music business teach you the business. Everybody else is so worried about making a dollar off you, that they’re not going to teach you the business. With Dame, he sat down and broke down with us what our problem was on Sony, and kinda taught us how to make money in the business.

MISS INFO

Do you also think that Dame wanted you guys there because, maybe for whatever reason, what was happening within Roc-A-Fella, he felt like, “Oh, now I have my friends here”?

Cam’ron

I just think he was a businessman.

Juelz Santana

If we was wack, we wouldn’t have been there.

Cam’ron

He’s smart. First of all, he didn’t have to do that favor. They was at the peak of their music career. They had just sold more records than DMX, when DMX was beating them at that time. They didn’t need us, you know what I’m saying? So, it wasn’t because something was going wrong, their machine was running smoothly.

Juelz Santana

Just like Cam said, Dame wanted everybody to be bosses. Even, like Beanie Sigel. Beanie Sigel had his own clothing line. Like a lot of that, like, Jay [-Z] didn’t. Jay was an artist until Dame left. Jay didn’t really take care of none of the business. Dame took care of everything, that’s why he was looked at as the bad guy and it was easy for people to kinda shut him out after Jay did. You know how you got “good cop/bad cop?” And he fought for everything, so, whatever. But Dame was very smart, though.

MISS INFO

But he does have a reputation for being hard to deal with. Did you guys not find that? Did you not have those infamous arguments with him, where he has a very interesting ego?

Juelz Santana

Another cocky Harlem n---a. That’s what you say. Like, we from Harlem, so we know what Dame was all about.

Cam’ron

Me and Dame was about to shoot the fade in the Def Jam at hallway one time, you know? You know, word.

MISS INFO

Dame and Juelz?

Cam’ron

No, me and him.

MISS INFO

Over what?

Jim Jones

Yeah, right before that little Apollo show.

Cam’ron

I forget whether…

Jim Jones

They had a big fight the day we were supposed to be signed. Cam saw him, “Yo, you better have the fucking papers at 12 o’clock backstage, it ain’t no Diplomats signing.”  Remember that?

Cam’ron

Yeah, ’cause what happened was I started rockin’, well, whole Diplomats started rockin’, and I was telling Dame, I’m like, “Yo, it’s time for my n---as to start rockin’. What’s up?” He like, “Just chill, Cam. Chill, it’s gonna be good, just wait a minute.” I’m like, “I hear you, but I don’t really hear you. We gotta go now.” So, I went upstairs to Kevin Liles’s office. And Kevin Liles, he seen Juelz, he’s like, “Diplomats? Bam, I’m signing.” And, you know, Roc-A-Fella was on Def Jam, so Dame went upstairs flipping. “How the fuck you gonna sign them? I’mma ask you for the money to sign them.” So, he cursing Kevin Liles out. And Kevin’s like, “Look, man. Signed to us or signed to you, I make the same amount of money. It doesn’t matter to me, Dame, I really don’t care.” And that’s kinda what happened. So, me and Dame started flipping, and saying we was going to do the deal through Roc-A-Fella. But he keep telling us, “Hold on, hold on, hold on.” I’m like, “Take the money out your bank account and give it to us. You can’t tell hungry n---as, ‘hold on’.” And every day, every day, every day, every day, every day, every day, it was like, it might have been three days, but it felt like 87 days. We just ended up like, “Yo! You better have my money tomorrow. I ain’t playing.”

MISS INFO

Once you guys did get rolling, I mean, you were already featured on “Come Home With Me,” but then there was Diplomatic Immunity. This is when Cam, as kind of the head honcho of this, you made a decision of “I want to go forward with this group.” Did you think of it as another Roc dynasty, did you compare it to some other type of mega-group?

Cam’ron

You know why I think people liked us so much is ’cause lifestyle. It wasn’t formulated. It isn’t like there’s some dude from Philly. We’re not dissing them, but it wasn’t like, guy from Brooklyn, guy from Philly, another guy from Brooklyn, dude from Chicago. We all from the same neighborhood, so it’s kinda natural, you know what I’m saying? When we got into rap beefs with everybody, everybody jump on the song, whether they had beef with them or not. We’s beefing with Nas, it was like, whatever, you know what I’m saying? It was more family-orientated, so I think that was why people kinda liked what we had going on.

MISS INFO

Well, let’s just play something to jog everybody’s memory. Obviously, this is a classic.

The Diplomats – “Dipset Anthem”

(music: The Diplomats – “Dipset Anthem”)

Alright, y’all remember that song? But I stopped it at a very key point.

Juelz Santana

The bandana’s on the spin, yo! Jim said it, or he tweeted it. Yo, man! People wait till they get famous, you know, join up, not to glorify gangs and not anybody. You know, it’s just something that we kind of was a part of before it was just this big like, kind of like a fashion thing.” It’s kind of like a fashion statement right now, right? Don’t you think?

Jim Jones

Not real realistically it’s not, but in the entertainment world, it’s like a fashion statement.

Juelz Santana

Yeah.

MISS INFO

Right, I see what you mean.

Jim Jones

Like I said, a lot of people was cool, there was a lot of things that came with… Cam just said, “They ran down on Dame just for having the red flags on the thing.”

MISS INFO

 Why did they target Dame for that instead of you?

Jim Jones

See, in the video he was the first one, they saw it in LA first.

MISS INFO

How did you guys resolve that?

Juelz Santana

I just found out about it just now.

Cam’ron

Dame called me flipping about it. “Yo, man! We’ve got to sit down and talk, yo, yada, yada, yada.” I’m like, “Look man, I’m in New York, come back home, figure it out.”

MISS INFO

The other thing that was interesting about that verse, what happened, Zek?

Zek

No, I’m just looking at that chain. That’s the chain I got shot over, right there.

MISS INFO

Oh, wow!

Zek

Stupid Murph. Then this little dude, Murph, he gonna go to Mexico and not have his papers, and they going to take the chain. So now the chain is somewhere in Mexico, because he didn’t have his papers.

MISS INFO

Sorry, you don’t want that chain, that chain is cursed. What’s also interesting is a lot of people paid attention to that verse, because that’s where Juelz says, “Two more for Cam for taking over the rock.”

Juelz Santana

Yeah, that’s what happened, you know? We came there at the time, Jay definitely was Jay, don’t take nothing away from Jay. But as far as just Cam, he did the Come Home With Me, that was a great success for numbers, and just a great time for us. We were real hungry, we knew what we was coming in for. We came to Baseline [Studio] to work, not to gamble, not to do none of the other extra curricular activities. Yeah, but you wasn’t a full-blown rapper at that time, you were still like, you know, you was dibbling and dabbling, so you used gambling in the room a little bit.

MISS INFO

Jimmy was a video director.

Juelz Santana

Yeah, he was kind of like an everything man at the time.

MISS INFO

Jimmy would introduce himself as a director.

Juelz Santana

That’s what I say, he directed that video right there.

MISS INFO

You would do MTV interviews where you would talk about how for all the videos that you were directing for Dipset and other people.

Jim Jones

The first chance I got to do a video was “Oh Boy.” Me and Cam had a conversation, and I was like, “Since we’ve got all this creative control,” that’s what they used to call it back in the day, “If you do a deal, make sure you’ve got creative control.” Cam did the Roc-A-Fella deal, I’m like, “Since we’ve got this creative control, let me try to direct the first video.” He was like, “Yeah, let’s do it. If it looks good, we’re going to do the next one.” By chance I got a good director to help me out with the “Oh Boy.” “Oh Boy” was a success, Cam went platinum, and I kept doing the director thing.

Cam’ron

I used to be flipping, I’m like, “Put your name on the credits, take his name off the credits. Why isn’t your name on every credit?” Because I like the way that everybody’s name was on the screen, like even the “Hey Ma” video was like Zek, Juelz, directed by Jim, it just looked good, you know what I mean?

Juelz Santana

Yeah.

MISS INFO

What made you decide that you wanted to go and focus more on being an artist?

Jim Jones

I had a lot of positions. On the road, I was manager, road manager. I’ve been with Cam forever, so I’ve picking up thousands and thousands of dollars at every show.

Cam’ron

He may not have been as good as he is now, but he was on my first album ever, you know what I’m saying?

MISS INFO

But it was almost a gimmick.

Cam’ron

But with that one, he helped out, he had lot of input. What’s the song I hate, man? What’s my first song?

Jim Jones

 ”Hey Ma?” “Horse and Carriage?”

Cam’ron

 ”Horse and Carriage.”

MISS INFO

You hate that song?

Cam’ron

I hate that song, I never liked it, I hate that song.

Juelz Santana

Yeah, that song was crazy.

Cam’ron

I hate it.

MISS INFO

What do you hate about it?

Jim Jones

It worked though.

Cam’ron

I just never liked it, man. I just hate it. I know it got us rocking, and I argue…

MISS INFO

 [to the audience] What about you guys? Do you guys hate that song or do you love that song? Love!

Cam’ron

I hate it, but I got Jim is the one who came over, like the idea, “Why don’t you throw a little concept with ‘Puerto Rican judo’ in there?” I’m like, “Yo! That’s kind of hot, let me put that together.”

MISS INFO

He was the ideas man, he was the concept creator?

Cam’ron

Yeah, exactly. Not my whole album, but I’m saying we did stuff together. He definitely had input since the beginning.

Jim Jones

Zek put the “Hey Ma” chorus together. That was one of the biggest records came out of just us as the Diplomat whole.

MISS INFO

Right.

Jim Jones

Zek was in there, “Hey Ma, what’s up?” This being crazy freaky, it stuck. We formulated it together in the right way, and it just became, “Hey Ma.”

MISS INFO

And obviously everybody also knew Zek, because they thought that he was a seizure in every video.

Zek

Yeah, I used to come out with the medium-size superman one-piece outfit on on the stage.

MISS INFO

Yes, I definitely remember that.

Juelz Santana

Crazy. I was a no homo, I remember that.

Cam’ron

Let me tell you a story, real quick. We are out on tour everywhere, right, we were on the Puff Daddy tour, right? I’ll perform, and me and Jim perform before [Puffy]. It was so foul what they did to us, man. The stage was about the size of this right here. You know how Puff got this whole stage? They’re like, “Just go in front of the curtain,” and it’s this, right here. For real, it might be the size of what these turntables are. Me and Jim come out, it’s like work the [inaudible], and they realming, there were probably like 100 people in the arena. We’re looking dumb, empty, but Pete was there. Then Zek busts out on this little stage with a Superman costume, like a tight Superman with a cape, and we’re trying to perform on this little stage that he’s like trying to dance, and we’re, “What you going to tell your men? This dude it crazy.” Nobody really knows us like that, it’s like the country or whatever. We get back to the hotel, and you know, you might be looking for groupies, Ma$e got the groupies, Lil’ Kim got the whatever. So girls are in the lobby like, “Where is Superman at?”

[laughter]

Zek’s then, “Oh shit! They’re looking for me.” He goes back to the bedroom and puts on a Superman outfit and comes in the lobby. “Oh, you’s looking for me?” “It’s Superman right there.”  Word, yo!

MISS INFO

You walked off stage?

Cam’ron

The first time we performed he tried to fly out the curtains, but didn’t know the stage was that little, and fell like about seven feet.

Zek

The crazy thing is it’s funny hearing him talk about this story, because this was before I met them, and I was actually at that concert. Jim had on a robe and his boxers, that’s how Jim would come out. I was just a fan with tickets to the Puff Daddy concert. They early, ’cause they came on early. So for you to be there at that time, “I was there,” do you know what I mean?

Cam’ron

 We used to start concerts, 20,000 people in the middle of the crowd, remember that? We started at the top of the bleachers, just walked down the steps and walked through the crowd and then get on stage.

MISS INFO

Was it just because you were on so early that you could just do whatever you wanted to?

Cam’ron

Nobody knew where we was. They’re like, “Whatever, let’s do what we’ve got to do to get some chicks tonight, period.”

MISS INFO

Obviously, what you needed to do is wear a Superman outfit.

Jim Jones

They paid us $600 to to the whole Puff Daddy tour. [laughs]

MISS INFO

Wait, what? How much?

Cam’ron

I don’t remember, but if that’s what he says, that’s about right.

Jim Jones

Arnie gave us $1,800 to split up three ways.

[laughter]

MISS INFO

Oh my God! Alright, we’re going to go to another song.

Juelz Santana

We brought our own product with us.

MISS INFO

Let’s play “Hey Ma.” Oh, let’s play, “I Really Mean It.”

Diplomats – “I Really Mean It”

(music: The Diplomats – “I Really Mean It” / applause)

Juelz Santana

I’m checking out the bandana swag, like we had on full made bandana outfits and all. Jim had on a red jacket, Cam had on the pink with the boots.

MISS INFO

This was the heavy pink era.

Juelz Santana

Yeah, this was the start of it. That was like the beginning of it, like “Oh now, the video bust out crazy.”

MISS INFO

Cam, how do you feel about the fact that you went so hard for the color pink? It was like a legendary campaign.

Cam’ron

The whole thing was, I didn’t even try to like make pink hot, you know what I’m saying? Everybody shopped the same places in Harlem and all, it’s only the East Side, the Hill, Two Fifth, Jimmy Jazz. I’m like, “I’m going to start going to get my stuff made.”

Zek

Jimmy Jazz bootlegging right now, too.

MISS INFO

This is also produced by Just Blaze, so at that point you were working with a lot of the Roc-A-Fella sort of stable of producers. What was that like? Did you feel like it opened up a whole new creative land for you guys to have Baseline was a hangout where everybody would go? Like, what was your routine?

Juelz Santana

Not for us.

MISS INFO

No.

Juelz Santana

Go ahead, I was just saying it wasn’t a hangout for us.

Cam’ron

That was what I was about to say. They was bullshitting with the studio, we was getting there at two o’clock, making the engineer get there 2 PM, by the time their linger in there at one, two in the morning and then really don’t want to get no work done, we had like seven songs burned.

Jim Jones

Remember they started riffing with us, like all the other camps, telling Dame like, “Yo, they’re hogging the studio?” We had paired up somebody in there, because if you weren’t in there first, you didn’t get the big room. The only time you didn’t get the big room was if Jay was around.

Juelz Santana

Jay or Cam was in there.

Cam’ron

I mean, we was hogging that big room but Jay really even came some of the time, anybody else came, it was like, “Yo! We was here first.”

Juelz Santana

Jay kind of recorded like albums, he’d take a month to record an album. We kind of just recorded on a daily basis. It didn’t matter whether we had an album coming, we recorded and made projects just with the extra music that we had. We had so much music.

MISS INFO

That’s interesting because that’s the kind of the way that music industry works nowadays, where artists are basically forced to record all year round and constantly, in between their albums.

Juelz Santana

Plus, the demand is so, so much more…

Jim Jones

It’s different now, though. Back there, there wasn’t no internet, there wasn’t like a viral you could press one button and send it out to everybody in the world in one second.

MISS INFO

You didn’t worry about leaks.

Jim Jones

Yeah, it was the anticipation that you could build back in the day, because from New York, to get it to the rest of the country was a whole project you had to do. You had to get a marketing, promotional strategy. It wasn’t no mp3, you had to mail it.

Juelz Santana

We was in the mall with our mixtapes handing them out personally. We would go and we’d have a bus full of mixtapes, shirts. If Cam had a show, we would go in every mall early, and just make sure all of us personally was making sure [to hand out mixtapes]. Even if they knew us at the time, or didn’t know us, we were still personally handing out the mixtapes.

Jim Jones

Even the first time again, we was in the parking lot when Cam got the call, we was in the parking lot in one of the trucks handing out VCR tapes with all our videos on it. Remember that? Then Cam got the call like, “Nas is flaking. Could you all come in the building and perform?” We went in that building and went stupid.

MISS INFO

Yeah, wow, that was a historic moment. What about working with Just Blaze? If you can tell me what was that like? What was your relationship at that time?

Cam’ron

Well, we wasn’t really working with Just. Just loved beats, we did them and that was it. Just Blaze was cool. He’d come in, you know?

Jim Jones

You just had to fall in line.

Cam’ron

If it was up to Just, he just wants to do beats. I remember when I first got to Roc-A-Fella, I couldn’t even understand his train of thought, but he’s a smart dude. I remember we arguing over something. I think we had stole the “Oh Boy” beat, or Juelz stole the beat. Juelz put the battery in my back to steal the beat.

Jim Jones

He didn’t.

Cam’ron

He did. Yo, clear.

Jim Jones

He didn’t.

MISS INFO

Was it a point of argument, because the way that he tells it now, I think that he said that it wasn’t really a big deal? Jay-Z had wanted it, but then wasn’t going to use it for a long time.

Cam’ron

No, I’m telling everything and we going to be up there, man.

Juelz Santana

Was it that Kanye had gave you the “H to the Izzo” beat?

Cam’ron

That was after.

Juelz Santana

That was after that.

Cam’ron

That was after.

Juelz Santana

Jimmy started off our really meaning beat that Jay was pissed off about.

MISS INFO

What was the problem with this beat?

Juelz Santana

Because Cam was supposed to add a beat, and some panned out, and we went to the studio and jacked “Oh Boy.”

Cam’ron

No, this is what happened with “Oh Boy.” We used to come into the studio every day, Baseline, and we heard the beat and Just is like… hold up, hold up. No, I don’t know if he said that, we might have, he’d know better, but I do remember he was like… hold up. He was fronting, he was fronting, he was fronting, it was three months…

Juelz Santana

It was [Young] Guru in there, we told him to pull that beat up.

Cam’ron

We were like, “Yo! Throw that beat on, man.” Then stand there and saying stuff. Like, we come here everyday, and then just sit in there for like four months, and then we Juelz like, “I’m doing it.” He got on, and then I’m like, “I’m doing no homo.”

MISS INFO

Literally after you recorded it, you brought it to Hot 97.

Juelz Santana

Same day, hour later, right? But the whole song wasn’t even done. It was just first verse, and I came in after Cam, did a song, stop. It was like two minutes long, then Cam went back in after me, then I came back in, then it was a full song. But we took it the radio and it was just his verse and my verse after that.

Jim Jones

That wasn’t my favorite part of the whole joint. My favorite part was after that you all did the remix with Baby, and then “Oh Boy” put his verse on, and Cam…

Juelz Santana

Yeah, a lot of people…

Zek

 ”The face of the earth, racing the alcohol…”

Juelz Santana

We walked to the studio, Jay said, “Yo! I’ve got a surprise for you all.” Stuff was like, you know, we was wondering why he didn’t want to jump on records that he could have jumped on already. So now “Oh Boy” is out this world, hitting probably at 10,000 spins, we walk in the studio, Jay taps Cam, “Yo! I got a surprise for you.” We walk in the studio room, and Cam is like, “What’s the surprise or whatever?” Guru just pulls up “Oh Boy,” and it got a Jay-Z verse. On top of the Jay-Z verse, he’s dissin’ Nas. The dude shouts at Nas, it was like for one you could…

MISS INFO:

What did he say?

Juelz Santana

I don’t even know. Cam made him erase the whole verse to the point to where… You know how you still may hear like a leaked verse? It was to the point where Cam told Guru, “You better erase that, I don’t ever want to hear that. Jay-Z would have to come in later to get the world to hear this.”

Cam’ron

It wasn’t meant to be on that record.

Juelz Santana

It was wack.

MISS INFO

Oh my God!

Juelz Santana

It wasn’t suitably…

Cam’ron

 No, I think Jay is great rapper, but that joint was crazy trash. Don’t give us the giveaway, boss.

Zek

He said, “Nas, you ain’t nothing, poy.”

Jim Jones

The dopest night of Baseline is when Cam and Jay did that record. It was like a fight.

Zek

 “Welcome to New York.”

Juelz Santana

Yeah, yeah they had me so mad.

Zek

Welcome to New York City.

Jim Jones

That was the dopest night of recording ever that I’ve ever still seen to this day.

Cam’ron

It had to be that way, because like, Dame was our people. Jay had the “never speak to us” attitude. We’d be coming and be like, “Yo, Jay.” We’re new here, so we’re trying to be cool with everybody, we’re trying to get in where we fit in no homo, like, “Yeah, yeah everybody, how ya doing?” He’s like... [acts uninterested]

MISS INFO

Are you sure you were trying to be cool, Cam, because you’re the alpha male?

Cam’ron

No, word to blood, because we can’t come in wildy on somebody’s establishment that’s already about something, and we’re struggling.

MISS INFO

 Through the history of Dipset, has definitely come to other establishments and wilded.

Cam’ron

We didn’t walk in the building and just go, “Argh!” for the song. It ain’t go like that, you know what I’m saying? We was real nice, but n---as gave us their ass to kiss. You know, we’ll come like, “Hey Jay, how are you doing?” [acts uninterested]

[laughter]

MISS INFO

Maybe that’s just a personality.

Zek

No, hell no.

Jim Jones

No, he definitely was on super-stupid laid back shit like that.

Cam’ron

Just like that, you know what I’m saying? Then I did a song, “Oh Boy,” put out that joint song with Just Blaze, with Beanie Sigel and Memphis Bleek.

MISS INFO

 ”The Roc.”

Cam’ron

Yeah, that joint started poppin’. This has been going on with me and him forever, man. My first album ever, he comes into Sony studio, you know what I’m saying?

MISS INFO

This is back during the Confessions of Fire?

Cam’ron

My first album ever. He had a couple of albums out, but he comes in and is like, “Yo! Let me talk to you for a minute.” I’m like, “Oh, it’s cool,” because I knew him from when we was hustling for Dame. It was like I know him but we ain’t see each other, right? Like, [acts uninterested] “Yo! I want to tell you, I didn’t know you was that nice, you know what I’m saying? I just wanted to let you know I think your nice, my n---a.” I’m like, “No, I appreciate it, my n---a. Maybe we could do something for my album.” He like, “I’m not here to lobby for a spot on your album, you know what I mean?” I’m like, “Yo, man, I owe you one, n---a, you know what I’m saying?” I’m like, “Then why did you even come in here?” What’s the use of even saying that? I wasn’t on his label, I was on Untertainment, he isn’t in my session.  So now we started get popping on Roc-A-Fella, and he was not really giving too much love. But we like cool anyway, there was no big deal.

MISS INFO

Let me ask you, he, being part of the actual running Roc-A-Fella with Dame, he had to have given the green light for you guys to even be on there, and also to have the budgets that you had, and to have the access that you had.

Cam’ron

Do you know what? I think, and is with me too, I think he’s a good, great businessman. But he’s a competitor, he doesn’t like people who are just as good or maybe better on the same label as him. Not dissin’ him neither, not dissin’ him, but Bleek and Beanie is like coming underneath of him. I always want Jim and Juelz, once we started doing the beat to be equal or above me, because I’d just rather kick back and chill out. There’s people coming on that label with the same amount of talent, well no, pardon me, way more swag, you can’t really kind of handle it. Anyway, back to what I was saying, you can be “all fairness” all you want, man, I’m being all fair, I’m telling you the truth, what happened. We had like “Oh Boy” pop, and “Hey Ma,” we had a few songs pop. Then he comes back again. I’m on a label this time. [acts uninterested] ”Yo! Let me talk to you. You know, it’s been a little touching around, so I want you to know I fuck with you, you know what I’m saying?” I said, “You know, we fuck with you, my n---a. It’s all good, we all good.”

Juelz Santana

Everything’s got to be so theatrical.

Cam’ron

I’m like, “Yo! We fuck with you.” He’s like, “No, you’ve got n---as running around, one n---a running around, you know what I’m saying?”

Jim Jones

And make a cool game cool.

Cam’ron

Yeah, but I’m like, “Buster, here’s what we could do, Just Blaze’s got a beat up right now in the studio I’m about to do, let’s go knock it out.”

MISS INFO

What was the beat?

Cam’ron

The “New York City” beat.

MISS INFO

OK, “Welcome to New York.”

Cam’ron

We did the draw in like 30, 35 minutes, knock it out, it came out crazy.

Jim Jones

Nah, so you’ve got to the tell ’em…

Cam’ron

No, I’m telling them everything.

Jim Jones

You haven’t said like fight, like lifting. Who went in first, you?

Juelz Santana

Yeah, Cam went in first.

Jim Jones

They was going back to back, I don’t think nobody wrote anything. Like, Cam went in, then Jay went right in, and then you see Jay coming out, go inside the game room looking at those n---as like, “I got that, these little n---as.” Then Cam would go right back in, and then Jay would come. It was like a fight, like one punch for another. Cam would do his verse, Jay would do his verse, Cam would go on right back in, Jay’s going right back in.

Juelz Santana

No, hold on. I was actually supposed to be on [that record]. Cam, anything he do or anybody, he always let me put a verse on, and if they kept it they kept it.  If that was record, they just go, “No, we put my man Juelz on there.” I was supposed to do the third verse. Cam went in, two minutes, heard the beat, did his verse. Jay went in, maybe three minutes later, did his verse. I’m like, “Damn! This is Cam and Jay,” I’m writing, I’m still like, “Oh, I’ve got to come with mine, I’ve got to come with it.” Cam looking at me like, “You ain’t ready?” I’m like, “Nah!” I heard the first two bars, my bars that I have for my rhyme wound up being the chorus: “It’s the home of 9/11.” Make a long story short, they were just too quick on the draw for me that day. I remember saying to myself, “I missed out on that third verse, but I caught the hook.” So it was all good.

Cam’ron

Yeah, so right. Nah, he write the chorus and I’m like, “Yo! Why don’t you put your man on the chorus?”

MISS INFO

It was a ill chorus though.

Cam’ron

No, it was stupid.

Jim Jones

No, but he ain’t wanted you to video…

Cam’ron

No, let me finish. Now I’m like, “Song is poppin’.” I take it to the radio, shit’s poppin’, shit going on. I come into the studio, I’m like, “Yo Jay! Shit’s poppin’ we might should do the video right for it.” [acts uninterested] “Yo! I’m about to go downstairs real quick, I’ll be back.” That was the last of the whole video, because I’m like, “That’s my final straw. I’m go with Dame, say no more.” This is killing me, you know what I’m saying? I’m going crazy trying to do this thing.

MISS INFO

That was the last conversation you ever had?

Cam’ron

I can’t be but too nice but for so damn long, man, you know what I’m saying? It wasn’t really no beef, but, “Yo! Whatever, what’s up man? I’m going in here. I’m not going to do that.”

Jim Jones

I’ll tell you what really set if off, like it was disgusted, and Cam said, “We ain’t fucking with him no more,” that Roc-A-Fella tour. We was slated to be on a Roc-A-Fella tour for a good amount of money, and like a week before, somebody called Cam, and then Cam told us that we’re not on the tour no more, and we ain’t fucking with him. Then Cam had us go to five of these shows, and just be in the crowd with 40 n---as taunting them n---as. “We’re here anyway, what’s up?”

MISS INFO

Really? Who told you that you were not going to be on the tour?

Cam’ron

I don’t remember exactly who told me or whatever, but it didn’t make no sense. They took everybody from Roc-A-Fella on the tour, and they didn’t take us. We just had sold a million records two months prior to the tour.

Juelz Santana

It was blatant. ‘Cause at that time, we was just as hot as Jay, do you know what I’m saying? We had records that was out of this world, there was no reason we shouldn’t have been on that tour. No reason at all.

MISS INFO

Wow! Did you take that up with Dame? Couldn’t you then lobby Dame? That was your guy.

Cam’ron

To be honest, we was in so many different states doing whatever we was doing that we had our own plan not to even argue with Dame. Because Dame wasn’t really on the tour. For some reason, I don’t know why Dame wasn’t on this tour, because he wasn’t on the tour, you know what I’m saying? He wasn’t there, man. We was planted, we have our feet planted in a lot of states: Dame’s is in Ohio, he’s in Ohio, Chicago, Indiana, Kentucky, North Carolina. We flew in too and we knew like a hundred people in every state so we was already doing.

MISS INFO

Another thing that a lot of people keep wondering is about “H to the Izzo.” You’ve said that Kanye promised you that beat, and then took the beat away, and you were really pissed about it. Do you still own a copy of your verse on “H to the Izzo?”

Cam’ron

Like you said, that’s a whole another era. You might got to go get tape with that.

Juelz Santana

Reel-to-reel.

MISS INFO

So you don’t [have a copy]?

Cam’ron

What happened was, Kanye came out, he wasn’t down well with Roc-A-Fella, he down with nobody. He just came from Chicago and was shopping beats around, he wasn’t even thought about rapping and that. He came to my session and played that beat, and I’m like, “That’s like a Michael Jackson joint right there, you know what I’m saying? That joint is hot.” I did the whole song, I’m like, “Tell Kanye we’re going to buy that joint.” He came like on a Friday, we heard Jay-Z do it on the radio like on Monday.

Jim Jones

No, we seen it on the BET show with Snoop Dogg, remember? I was at your house.

Juelz Santana

That’s when Jay brought everybody on stage, everybody came on stage. He did it for the first time.

Cam’ron

What that when it was? I don’t know, like you say, it could be, but it was two days after he played it for us. It was like he heard that joint, it was like, “We doing this right this second,” you know?

MISS INFO

Do you think that there’s a lot of outtakes to the albums to Diplomatic Immunity that are still like maybe in the hands of producers? Just Blaze actually played at one point Juelz’s last verse and a little bit of Jimmy’s verse from “I Really Mean It,” so he had that. And he played it on the radio.

Jim Jones

I didn’t even know.

Cam’ron

That’s Blaze doing the Warren G mixtape, he mixed it blended it and all that, man.  I ain’t no even did no verses.

MISS INFO

Do you regret like not keeping a lot of that out of those outtakes?

[The Diplomats have an aside]

Now they have to clarify it with each other.

Juelz Santana

No, I did a verse of that, but that was one of those, “Cam’s popular?” But was like, “No, I need this whole beat.” He has some things on his mind, that’s when he said, “Body warm, hard anemic.” He went in on that one, so it was like, “Aight.”

Cam’ron

I don’t remember, to be honest, before that, my man Gee Roberson who is the chairman of Geffen right now, congratulations to him and Jean Nelson and all that. But I remember he called me, he was A&R at Atlantic at that time, and he needed a record for Lil’ Kim, and I wrote, not them same lyrics, but I wrote like the same kind format for Lil’ Kim and she didn’t like it, and I ended up just keeping it.

MISS INFO

Oh, interesting. Talk about the producers that you did work with on Diplomatic Immunity. Between Just and Heatmakerz, and who else do we have on there?

Cam’ron

That was Basically it. It was like Just Blaze and the Heatmakerz.

Juelz Santana

A couple of just miscellaneous mediocre producers.

MISS INFO

Charlemagne.

Juelz Santana

Charlemagne.

MISS INFO

DR Period.

Juelz Santana

DR Period, yeah.

MISS INFO

Do you feel like you had a certain click with them? But how come you didn’t keep working with them from there on forward? Were there issues?

Juelz Santana

Everybody done change with the times. I think I would work with them a lot on my album. I think we worked with them up till it became a point to where I guess the music wasn’t coming out.  We always try to stay relevant. Sometimes, maybe I guess the producers, or what have you, it just didn’t fit what the next step that we was trying to do. Just that sound of music, that whole sample sound, everybody’s still using it right now. Even down-south artists, the sped up samples, even [Lil] Wayne, he raps a lot on those type of records.

MISS INFO

Do you think that that was just because of the producers? Or do you feel like you guys also influenced the producers to do that? Was it just something that happened at the right time?

Juelz Santana

I think with the Heatmakerz, you know how when you do a record and then it comes out so great, I think they kind of go back and say, “Oh, we’re going to try to keep doing this.” I think that formula, it meant that it was soulful. I know I grew up, I’m sure they probably grew up the same way with our mother’s playing old school songs.  Just being into Harlem, mother dancing, they dance to the old school records, and then you hear these producers sampling these records and just speeding them up. You’re like, “Oh, my moms might like this, I could rap to it and make the young dudes like it.” It just fit where we was trying to do. I don’t think we had a plan to do a certain type of music. Our plan was to just win by just doing whatever we did. Cam brought what he brought to the table, we all believed in each other that much. I think the plan was to just do what we do, and do it to your best of your ability and we’re going to win.

MISS INFO

Right. Cam, having seen you in the studio, it’s not like you’re really the type of artist that directs, you’re not really telling the producer what kind of sound you want, right?

Cam’ron

No, I don’t make beats. If I hear something I like, I just know I like it. I’m not really one to be like, “Do this,” or, “Do that.” At that time, DukeDaGod, he really kind of picked the beats out, so I don’t have to listen to 200 beats. He might narrow it down to 20 because he knows the sound I kind of like, or was looking for.

MISS INFO

I want to open it up to the audience to ask some questions, but one thing that I definitely got when I asked people on Twitter what they always wanted to know about you guys, you answered a lot of it about the Rock The Mic tour and about “H to the Izzo,” and about “Welcome to New York City,” and “Oh Boy.” And Cam, on Twitter, at least once a month, maybe a twice a month, I don’t know if you guys follow him, but he’s hilarious and raunchy. Super raunchy. Somebody invariably asked you about this one line, and it must piss you off so much, but I just want to know that in hindsight, what do you think about how infamous the line, “I get computers ’pute me,” is? That line is infamous.

Cam’ron

No, you know what it is? I got like the Cam’ron fans, so sometimes their responses are so good that I’m not going to lie, I take off the RT, the retweet, and act like it was my response, and I’ll erase the RT, like, “No, that was pretty hot.” I know what you’re talking about, so I’ll go erase little lines.

MISS INFO

You steal their lines on Twitter?

Cam’ron

I ain’t gonna lie, I steal stuff.

Jim Jones

No, but you got the people that be like, “Oh, you just going snatching my joint like that and run with it?”

MISS INFO

See that I ask, and I wonder whether it pisses you off?

Cam’ron

No, because they know it. To be honest, it doesn’t get me mad, but I know what you’re talking about. The other day on Twitter, somebody said, “Do you still get computers ’puted?” Somebody was like, “OK, tell ’em this.” I made a scene like I took the retweet up my ass kind of hard, they said, “Tell ’em, ‘Yeah, you got some mother computing me right now, downloading my hard drive.’” I’m like, “Oh, that was tough.” Yeah, take the RT off, add my little joint in his name.

MISS INFO

Do you think, on the one hand, a lot of people bring that line up when they talk about you, sort of as an example of like sometimes Cam doesn’t give a fuck, and he just will get ignorant and he’ll say anything, even if it doesn’t make any sense? On the other hand, I think that anybody who is a fan and knows your music long enough knows that when you go in on a verse, crazy.

Cam’ron

I mean, at the end of the day, you could probably use that line, but if you ask me about any lines, I write them down, explain to them, if you ain’t getting them, I’ll break it down. But you’re not going to be around, and I know it sounds crazy, because I don’t even like saying it, but you’re not going to be in this business 14, 15 years not knowing what you’re doing and not being able to rhyme. I signed my deal in 1997, it’s 2011. I know that people that did one and out. I went to the airport, I’m not even going to say the rapper who grabbed my luggage for the cab. Just to be around this long, it’s a blessing, you know what I’m saying? I’m very happy. I appreciate the fans, too.

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