Tullio De Piscopo
Born in a family of drummers in Naples, Tullio De Piscopo learned the ropes of the business early before moving north to Milan, where he established himself as an in-demand session drummer, nicknamed “The Surgeon.” His contributions over that period established him as a prolific drummer in Italy, keeping rhythm for local and international artists such as Chet Baker, Aldemaro Romero, Fausto Pappeti and Astor Piazzolla. During that time he also formed one of the country’s top rhythm sections with bassist Pino Presti. In the ’70s and ’80s he found success with fellow Neapolitan Pino Daniele, including the international hit “Stop Bajon (Primavera),” before coming into his own as a singer with “Andamento Lento.”
In this lecture at the Red Bull Music Academy Bass Camp Rome 2017, De Piscopo retraced the steps of a remarkable career that took him out of Naples and onto stages around the world. Along the way he also shares stories about introducing drums to Argentinian tango and writing pop songs in a taxi.
Hosted by David Nerattini Today we are here for lecture that makes me particularly proud and also a little nervous because this isn’t something you do every day. For years, I grew up with the certainty that THE drummer in Italy was Tullio De Piscopo. Before we ask him to talk, I think we should ask him to do what comes most naturally and play us something. Please maestro, Tullio De Piscopo. (music: Live drum improvisation / applause) What an honor, what a pleasure to meet you. Well, I’ve already described you as a generous musician, a mainstream star and the favorite drummer of other Italian drummers and musicians but I would like to start from the very beginning, I would like to talk about the young Tullio De Piscopo, who became enchanted by the drums because there were already two other drummers in the house. Tullio de Piscopo Yes, both my father and my brother Romeo played drums. Some people are born in a shirt but I was pretty much born with drumsticks in hand. As soon as I opened my eyes, I saw drums, tambourines, cymbals and percussion instruments and I have always known that this is what I had to do. They used to call us the “crazy family,” in Porta Capuana, the historic neighborhood of Naples, because at 7:30 my dad would start off with a drum roll on the snare drum with a rubber pad before moving onto the xylophone and vibrato, then my brother Romeo would start. Then they would leave to go to the galleria to look for work. You had to go to Galleria Umberto because that’s where you find work. We didn’t have a telephone, so how would they get hired otherwise? In galleria. You went down there and it was, “Hey, how are you? Are you free on…” The first thing to ask for was a retainer, we’re talking about 500-1,000 Lire. So, I started when they left and I started to play and it was there that the only person in the world, still today, ever paid me to stop playing. It was Mrs. Concetta who lived next door. Our houses were only divided by a plasterboard wall and she would say, “Tullio, you’re a good boy. I’ll give you 50 Lire if you stop playing, it gives me a headache.” So, I would take the 50 lire but then I invented something extremely useful. I took a green military cover, which my mum must have got for me from the American market, and I draped it over the whole drumkit including the cymbals. It wasn’t a drumkit like this one [points to drumkit], it was smaller and there was only one cymbal. And I started to study that way. I could barely see anything, it was a table, you couldn’t see the spaces but studying that way meant I can now play with my eyes closed. I know where my hands have to go. I told my dad the same thing so he covered his xylophone and it was really useful. So, Mrs. Concetta may have paid me not to play, but she also did me a big favor! David Nerattini So how did you become professional? You must have played in Naples at the beginning? What kind of work was there for a young drummer? Tullio de Piscopo It’s a crazy story because my dad didn’t want me to play the drums. “You have to play the double bass! You have to study the double bass because there are no good double bassists in Italy.” “Whatever you say.” I was 11 years old. He made me go to lessons with a teacher in San Carlo in Naples, but we didn’t pay of course so whenever I got to the teacher’s house in the Spanish quarter, it was on the eighth floor without a lift, he was always annoyed because he gave me lessons for free. I would listen and have a go on his instrument. Then when I got home I would practice on a broom using a drumstick as the bow, sat in front of the mirror humming [imitates bow movement]. My teacher would tell me that I had to buy a double bass to study. When I told my dad that we had to buy the double bass he asked me where I thought he’d get the money from. So, it was lucky for me that we had no money to buy one and so I was able to play the drums. David Nerattini We might have had a great double bassist by now! Tullio de Piscopo Who knows, the drums are better. David Nerattini You’re right. So how did you move into the professional world? With an orchestra? Tullio de Piscopo No, it all started with parties because we played in people’s homes at christenings, weddings‚ not at funerals! David Nerattini Those just in New Orleans. Tullio de Piscopo We mostly played at weddings. There were owners who had a big hall and would rent it out for weddings. Then the catering staff would come in, in the poor neighborhoods of Naples, that’s how I started. David Nerattini It was usual back then to move forward playing with orchestras, big or small. Tullio de Piscopo Yes, we played in the night clubs next to the Port of Naples like everyone, like Pino Daniele. These places were full of Americans who came in with the fleet. They would disembark at Piazza Municipio and the owners would call us, “Hurry, hurry, the Americans are here!” So, then we played from two in the afternoon until midnight, one until the Marine police arrived, beat everyone up and dragged them off drunk. It was a great lesson for us all because we all had to learn the international repertoire from a real book. You had to know the pieces they asked for, American or foreign. David Nerattini Then at some point you had to realize that it wasn’t enough to stay in Naples, if you wanted to be a professional drummer there were two places back then: Milan or Rome. Rome had RAI, so the RAI orchestra, cinema, meaning soundtracks, and what else? Little else. And the RCA, so so some pop music, but not much more. Tullio de Piscopo There was the social life, but I wasn’t cut for it. I knew exactly what I had to do. I had to play the drums in a certain way and make money more than anything, because I came from extreme poverty. But why did I leave Naples? Because I began to take off, everybody wanted me in the recording studio. Just think, I recorded with Sergio Bruni, who was the voice of Naples. But then people started up with some bad talking, “What can he do with the drums that I can’t? He only works because he’s Peppino De Piscopo’s son.” I gave it all up, took my drums and a record player and hopped on the train. First stop Rome, I didn’t like it. Next stop Bologna, great, jazz but no work. That’s how I began to work out where to go: Milan, Bergamo, Verona, Turin, Novara, Vercelli. Here it is going to be hard. I chose Milan so I could play jazz and it was the right position for me in the world of music although I struggled at the beginning because I was different. David Nerattini I can imagine that a young Neapolitan lad didn’t get the best welcome in Milan back then. Tullio de Piscopo A southern boy. David Nerattini The welcome in Milan was probably not the best. Tullio de Piscopo In the meanwhile, I had gotten married and my wife was pregnant. So, I took a few steps backward in order to stay in Milan, I played in a night club where I earned 7,000 Lire a day. My wife and I were staying in a boarding house called Do Re Mi, seriously. It cost 7,500 Lire a day with a meal. David Nerattini So, you were down by 500 Lire. Tullio de Piscopo That’s right, I was 500 Lire in debt every day. Sometimes I’d work until 5, 6 or 7 in the morning. In the mornings, my wife looked for apartments in the newspapers and often got an appointment, she is from the north so they heard her Emilian accent from Sassuolo, then we’d go together in the afternoon and as soon as they heard me speak they’d say, “We’re sorry, we’ve promised the apartment to someone else, someone’s called.” My wife and I went all round Milan, all the way down Via Ripamonti, Via Mirabella. And there we saw a sign saying, “We don’t rent to southerners.” I looked at my northern wife and said, “Now what the hell are we going to do?” We don’t rent to southerners! How absurd. What do they write now I wonder? David Nerattini Now they would write, “We don’t rent to immigrants!” Tullio de Piscopo Now there is nothing written. Now they don’t rent it at all. We pay them. So, I told my wife to go back to Sassuolo, I would stay and look. Luckily, I found an apartment but outside Milan, in the Zingone neighborhood in Trezzano sul Naviglio! Unbelievable. David Nerattini And did you have to go to the galleria to find work in Milan as well? Tullio de Piscopo No, but having a phone was very important to me. It was tricky to get a phone back then, but I got one after a month. My number was 4471424. David Nerattini You still remember your number! Tullio de Piscopo Of course! My mum played it on the lottery and she even won! [laughter] So I slowly settled in, but what was my plan? I wanted to become the drummer for everybody, on every single record. I didn’t want to play live with a singer, only records. In fact, you know well how many LPs I’ve done, how many recordings… David Nerattini Until Pino, you had practically never played live with a singer. Tullio de Piscopo Only Pino, I only toured with Pino. David Nerattini So, throughout the ’70s, three records came out a day. Tullio de Piscopo I recorded for everybody, Celentano and Mina, and of course they all asked me to play on their tours. I never said yes. Only to Pino Daniele because we had a connection. David Nerattini How did you manage to break into the world of session recording in Milan? Did you have to prove how good you were? Tullio de Piscopo It was tough because it was a war against the other drummers and other musicians. David Nerattini I can imagine! Tullio de Piscopo Because I was from Naples. But I managed eventually. Until one day I was called for a recording that went [hums the melody] There were incredible drums there and everyone was asking, “Who is that? Who’s making those sounds? Who’s playing the drums?” Suddenly they all wanted that drummer and then they realized that it was a drummer from Porta Capuana in Naples. David Nerattini If you go onto Discogs and click to see all the albums as an exercise, they’re not all there of course,
but a lot of them are listed, the first that appears is from Aldemaro Romero Y Su Onda Nueva, La Onda Maxima. Tullio de Piscopo Aldemaro Romero from Caracas was a great musician, extraordinary, who invented this new genre, onda nueva, a sort of bossa nova but in 3/4. There’s a good story behind onda nueva as well. David Nerattini Were you only Italian musicians or mixed? Tullio de Piscopo A mix, but it was when I had just arrived in Milan so they hadn’t called me for this onda nueva, this new tricky rhythm that was very difficult. They had refused three drummers and the orchestra was just waiting for a drummer to make the cut. Then one of them, his name was Nebuloni, said, “Let’s call this Neapolitan that’s just come to Milan.” They called me and I went at 21:00 to this Mondial Sound studio. The whole orchestra was there with the conductor. I took a while to set up my drum kit so I could check the score. Neapolitan style, you know? It had been annotated by the other drummers as well. “So, are you ready?” “Yes, yes, I’m coming.” “Ok!” (music: Aldemaro Romero y su Onda Nueva – “Onda Maxima”) We did the piece and the whole orchestra applauded me when it was finished, “We’ve done it! We’ve finally done it!” [laughter] But it wasn’t easy… David Nerattini Not at all, it changes four times in two minutes! Tullio de Piscopo It wasn’t easy with all those time changes. And I was there messing about so I could read the score. It changes time four times. My strength was being able to read music for drums at first sight. It’s a great skill that I owe to my dad because we used to compete over who read better, him, my brother and me. Even my other brother Antonio would join in! And they always tested me, once they stuck the sheet to the ceiling, upside down and told me, “Read it!” Upside down! It was crazy. So, thanks to this schooling, I can read sheet music at first sight and it’s saved me on numerous occasions! David Nerattini A lot of drummers have missed out on jobs because they weren’t able to read music fast enough. Tullio de Piscopo Exactly, they had a good ear but if you can’t read music in this field, what are you going to do? David Nerattini We’ve already touched on Latin music, which has been something of a constant throughout your career and I dug up these two records... Tullio de Piscopo Oh my god, unreal! David Nerattini Perez Prado. There’s a story behind this... Tullio de Piscopo Perez Prado, incredible! David Nerattini Basically this guy named Perez Prado came to live in Italy, he actually died in Italy, he spent the second half of his life here. This man Perez Prado came here but he was actually the brother of the more famous Perez Prado. His name was really Pantaleon Perez Prado. The two brothers used to play together but then they had a falling out... Tullio de Piscopo They were twins. David Nerattini Twins. Because Perez Prado was actually their surname! They each had another name. So for some years there were two Perez Prado in the United States, the two brothers. Then at some point they came to an agreement, that one would go to Europe and one would stay in America. “OK, you go to Europe but don’t use the name Perez Prado, add Pantaleon.” Obviously he didn’t, Pantaleon came to Italy and started recording and some of his records are fantastic. Tullio de Piscopo I don’t remember any of that. Just that it was hard work. [looks at the records] Oh, look, incredible! I don’t have these. Are they yours? Amazing. Is the name on there too? (music: Perez Prado – “Circle”) Just think that back then the bass drum was smaller than this [points at drum kit], then there was only one tom-tom, one snare, one timpani, one or sometimes two cymbals and the hi-hat. That was it. But I remember this drumkit, my first kit bought on credit in my father’s name, was bought from Alfredo Ceruti in Via Arenaccia. I spent 2,000 Lire a month in repayments and I did everything with that kit, I made history. I had got it ready. I removed the leather, this leather [points to bass drum], from the bass drum and put the microphone inside so that the sound was ready. That’s why the techies helped me too, they all wanted me. They turned on the mic and that was it! It played, the sound was there. David Nerattini So, in just a few years you became THE drummer in Milan, the one they said to call if a track wasn’t going right, and even the “record fixer.” Tullio de Piscopo Very good, how did you know that? David Nerattini It’s quite well known! Tullio de Piscopo They used to call me the surgeon‚ “Call the surgeon.” “Who’s this surgeon?” “Here’s his number, call him.” Because once in a while, a new drummer would arrive in Milan and outdo Tullio De Piscopo. Somone who destroyed Tullio De Piscopo. I’d wait a month but the phone had stopped ringing. They would record with this guy and then I had to go and redo it all because the techies refused to mix it. “I can’t mix this track with this drummer. What are we going to do? We need the surgeon.” So, I went along and I’d sort it out in two minutes. With the tempo changing constantly. We’re talking about famous drummers too. David Nerattini Right, because there was a new feature that began to emerge in the ’70s. There were no click tracks before, so you were the human click. Tullio de Piscopo No, there were definitely no click tracks. David Nerattini You were the human click during recordings. Tullio de Piscopo Sometimes they would use an actual metronome, the old metronome, they wanted me but I was busy so they used this metronome as the guide track and then I came in, sometimes even at two in the morning and I played the drums over the metronome and the guide track. David Nerattini If there’s one thing that’s hard about studio recording as a drummer, it’s playing when everybody else has already played. It’s the hardest thing. Tullio de Piscopo It’s hard. I made an entire LP which actually went very well for Christian De Sica which went [mimics rhythm] Do you have that one? David Nerattini No. Tullio de Piscopo I did it all alone, it was crazy. Then they added the others. The whole orchestra with the great conductor Gianni Ferri. But going back to what you said before about the metronome, it was difficult. Once I went to record and in the studio was the great Vinicius De Moraes, Nobel prize winner in literature [ed note: de Moraes never won the Nobel prize], as well as Toquinho, this Brazilian artist. The LP was Arca di Noé and the track was called “[O Relògio] Tic Tac,” written by Vinicius and Toquinho. The arranger came in and I saw that they had put a small table in front of the booth, because the drum kit was closed away in a glass room so that it wasn’t picked up by the other mics. Do you know what I mean? They placed this small table in front of the glass and the conductor laughed. What the hell are you laughing at? And they placed this metronome on it. And the conductor wanted to have a laugh. “The track is called “Tic Tac,” you have to follow the metronome.” “Well, I can do it, if none of you play.” It went like this, they were in a rush. “If you don’t play, how long’s the piece?” “Three minutes? I’ll do it in three minutes.” (music: Vinicius De Moraes – “O Relògio (aka Tic Tac)” live) And from the booth, I watched Vinicius de Moraes moving like this [swings in time], with a full glass of whisky and he didn’t spill a drop. What an experience. The musicians always dashed off at the end of each session, they never gave me a hand. I had to dismantle my drum kit and load it into my car. That day, Nobel prize winner Vinicius De Moraes loaded my drum kit into the car for me. Incredible, incredible. I had a Fiat 500, with the seats taken out because they got nicked otherwise. David Nerattini The bassist is always important for a drummer because they’re your twin, as it were. There were bassists that you particularly liked in those years, they appear on many records. Two in particular come to mind, one of whom went on to become an arranger and producer, Giuseppe Prestipino. Tullio de Piscopo He arranged Mina as well. David Nerattini His artist name was Pino Presti, and you formed a lethal duo. Then, sometime later, an extraordinary bassist moved to Italy from New Orleans, where he had played with the very best local musicians‚ Allen Toussaint, the Neville Brothers. Basically he was one of the great bassists of New Orleans and I never understood why he moved to Italy. Perhaps you can help me. What was he thinking? Tullio de Piscopo Julius Farmer. David Nerattini Julius Farmer, an incredible bassist. Tullio de Piscopo Well, Giorgio Caslini, who was a great jazz musician back then, went to play at the New Orleans Jazz Festival. So they got him the best bassist in town, Julius Farmer, and drummer John Vidagovic. Then Giorgio Caslini liked them so much that he invited them to do some festivals in Italy. Vidagovic left after a while, he went back to New Orleans, but Julius liked Italy, the food was so good, so he stayed. And I helped him with the solfege, because he couldn’t read music very well. He had never had the training that I had, as I told you before, but he had me and at first I helped him. He sat right outside the booth playing his bass live without an amp and I would signal when he had to stop. “Stop!” He followed my directions. Then I gave him this book, a book of tricks for learning solfege, but I can’t tell you what it’s called. David Nerattini There are lots of records that don’t mention your name and I’ve always wondered... By ear, I’d say it’s you. Tullio de Piscopo I made 30. David Nerattini So, this [holds record] must be one of them. Tullio de Piscopo 30 collected albums, because the great Fausto Papetti made two a year. But they don’t even know who Fausto Papetti is. David Nerattini Anyone who has bought vinyl in Italy will have come across Fausto Papetti records sooner or later. (music: Fausto Papetti – “Love’s Theme”) Tullio de Piscopo Fausto Papetti was always top of the charts, not only in Italy but all over the world. He released two LPs a year and they went to the top of the charts as soon as they came out. The first time I went to New York, I went to the Village Vanguard, a jazz club, to hear the jazz musicians. It was amazing, Billy Hart was on the drums. Afterwards, I went to Billy and said, “Can you recommend some record shops where you all get your jazz records from?” “Oh yeah, there’s a small shop between seventh and eighth.” I woke up the next morning, headed to the shop, looked in the window... Fausto Papetti. The record that I had just made. Can you believe it? He was a revered in Japan, a god, but he never went. He never went, because he was scared of flying. What a person, incredible. David Nerattini After Fausto Papetti’s success, everyone tried to copy him in Italy. Every label had its Fausto Papetti. Tullio de Piscopo But nobody got it right. David Nerattini No, well, George Saxon. Tullio de Piscopo I played on those records too. David Nerattini You can tell. So, we’ve got to ’77, ’78 going back and forth a bit. And synthesizers begin to emerge in pop music and we were talking about the click track earlier. Suddenly you had to be able to play along with something that kept perfect time, well, more or less, they didn’t go perfectly back then, there was some latency, it wasn’t easy. Tullio de Piscopo There was the famous Korg. David Nerattini They began to call you for albums made with synths and keyboards where the only human element was you on the drums. Was this because of your metronomic precision and your ability to play a groove as though you were an electric drum kit but better? As precise as an electric drum kit but groovy like a drummer. Tullio de Piscopo Erm, I don’t know. David Nerattini Well, that’s what I think, I stand by it. And I’ll back my statement with this track, taken from the 1978 record by Il Guardiano del Faro. Tullio de Piscopo Wow, this guy knows everything! David Nerattini Federico Monti Arduini. Tullio de Piscopo This guy’s got the lot! Where do you get these from? I don’t have this. Is my name on there? David Nerattini Yes, here of course. Of course. (music: Il Guardiano Del Faro – “Disco Divina”) What was it like playing with such rigid machines? Because it’s not quite like the metronome, it’s different. Tullio de Piscopo I found it OK, actually I found it better with the machines than with the click track. Because the click track is this electronic metronome playing through your headphones, you’ve got, “Click, click, click,” in your ear, it’s crazy. You can’t play because it’s distracting. But with the machines, despite being electronic, it was... It was music, it was harmony. Where as the click was just unbearable because you had this metallic sound in your ear and you had to follow it. David Nerattini Yeah, the risk is that you follow the click track more than the music. Tullio de Piscopo There are drummers who play very well with this awful electronic click, but take away that electronic click and they don’t know how to play. It’s a prison, you know? David Nerattini They only know how to play with guide rails. The pros and cons of modernity. Ideally, you’d want to be a real drummer who was precise enough not to... Tullio de Piscopo The great thing about Pino Presti was with Piazzolla. David Nerattini Exactly, that’s exactly where I was going. We’ve talked about pop music and dance music, your actual work as it were. But you had come to Milan to play the music you liked, jazz. Tullio de Piscopo I worked on all these records to survive, to look after my family, and I played jazz in the evenings but it wasn’t well paid. I always played in the evening, always. There was a new venue called Jazz Power, which was where Motta is in Milan, in Piazza Duomo. Or I went to play in Turin but I always came back the same night because I had to record in the morning. So, it was a life of sacrifice as well, but I had to do it. David Nerattini In addition to the jazz, there were other collaborations where you actually developed further, even getting involved in the arrangement itself. Because the drummer can’t always have a say in the arrangement, but in some cases... I’m talking about your collaboration in the ’70s with the great Astor Piazzolla. Not only the king of Argentinian tango, but the person who completely reshaped this ancient genre, who modernized it. This was all on an album... Tullio de Piscopo All you need to do is play the music and they’ll know who we’re talking about. David Nerattini It’s one of those things that as soon as you hear it... Tullio de Piscopo The famous “Libertango,” which is still played by all the great orchestras in theatres around the world. If you pay attention, you’ll notice that everybody who plays “Libertango” is going too fast. I don’t know where they’re rushing off to. “Where are you going?” This is the right time. I’ll play you the original. From ‘74 to 2017 in the villa, wow. (music: Astor Piazzolla – “Libertango” live) Every melody has its tempo. David Nerattini Of course, and here, the secret is in raising the hi-hat, in my opinion. Tullio de Piscopo The best thing about this was the phone call from the union. “Hello De Piscopo, are you free on April 22nd and 23rd?” “Yes, where?” “Mondial Sound, Rome.” “Ok, who’s playing?” Boom, they had already hung up. So, I called back and said that’s not the way to do things. “Who am I playing with? What do I have to do? What style of music is it?” “Oh, I don’t know, some accordion player.” “What’s his name?” “Astor Piazzolla.” The maestro Astor Piazzolla arrives, oh, he was a sight. “Hello, hello.” He’s from Argentina. Guitar... Presti Pino on the bass... Piano... 11 pages of piano music, it was all black... Timpani, guitars, flutes in E, flutes in C, drums... There was nothing for drums, just the odd rhythmic. “Excuse me, there’s not much written here.” “I know, I’ve never used the drums.” “Ok, but I need to hear something.” So, he reaches for this battered wooden box and pulls out this toy, this bandoneon. He sits right there and starts making these arcs in the air. I start to play, telling him to go on. I ask for headphones and go into the booth and play eight bars. And he says, “Esto es, stop, esto es libertango.” And that’s the music we all know. And who would ever have thought it would be a global hit? I became famous in Argentina because tango had never had drums in it before. David Nerattini Then we get to a certain turning point where your career changed. As a pure drummer and jazz musician of a certain kind, you meet Pino, you meet him again, it wasn’t the first time, you’d known him for ages, and finally collaborate with him on the album that really cemented his fame. He was already big but he still hadn’t realized his maximum success. Let’s listen a a bit of it, it’s always good. Such an amazing groove. This is an original copy, I bought it in those years. (music: Pino Daniele – “Yes I Know My Way” / applause) This is the history of Italian music. Tullio de Piscopo It still gets emotional when I listen to Pino. We had an extraordinary connection. David Nerattini It really felt like you were made for each other, it was a magical group. You fit together perfectly in terms of personality, with the instruments, everything. Tullio de Piscopo There’s already such personality in this first track off the LP, without copying anybody. This precise sound of Naples and Pino Daniele, you know? Pino Daniele, great poet, great musician, great guitarist. He could do it all and he wrote it all in dialect. If myself or Lucariello or any other Neapolitan artist wants to write something in dialect, we have to check whether he’s done it first. The word “Appocundria” (apathy) became part of our vocabulary. Then from here it was ever upwards. Basically, this is how it started, the book mentions it. I met Pino through my father, he played the xylophone and vibrato in the orchestra for Senza Rete, a Friday night live TV show. And Pino went to sing “Napulè” and “Madonna Mia.” So, my father called me and said, “You have to hear this guy, he’s excellent.” “Who is it? What’s his name?” “He’s a great, his name is Pino Daniele.” “I’m certain I’ll meet him.” A bit later we spoke on the phone because they wanted me to listen to his first work, Terra Mia. Then we met, I was in Milan and he was in Naples, we met at midday on December 28th, 1977 at the Port’Alba Pizzeria in Naples and we never left each other. We were always in harmony, even when we were far apart. David Nerattini Quite rightly, you became the most feared group in Italy over those years. It was difficult to play anywhere after you. A mix of groove technique, feel... Tullio de Piscopo There was a sound, there was a reason. There was no soloist, we were all there to serve Pino and his poetry. David Nerattini You all did so in the best way possible and this triggered a series of events, which were really positive for everybody in this photo [holds album], after this record and this tour. You all stepped up a level, Nino Esposito and yourself had both already made loads of records but this experience gave you a new audience. Tullio de Piscopo I left Milan and went to live where he was in Formia. We built an apartment above the studio, there was nothing there before, and we played all day long. We’d make coffee and step outside the studio, which was on the ground floor, to smoke a cigarette and then head back in. We played from 10:00 until midnight. It was crazy. So many tracks in the archive and I’ve heard so many grooves from the archive in tracks he made when we were apart. I’ve heard things we’ve done together in the tracks he’s made. Who knows where all those recordings went, we had a technician who recorded us. I don’t know who has them, they were extraordinary, I’d love to listen to it all again. David Nerattini Who knows who has them? Tullio de Piscopo I think probably Warner at this point. David Nerattini Do you think so? They got the lot? After the great success of this record, even though this was already a later phase in which it was no longer just you guys but there were also stars from America on the records, but it was this record, Sciò, and the tour that followed that changed your profile a bit. To the point that, you as a drummer, emerged as a singer. How did that happen? Tullio de Piscopo I had already done some vocal experiments in volume 2, after “A Cozzeca.” “A Cozzeca,” which began to add words to the percussion. I hadn’t ever opened my mouth before then. I started adding words to the percussion. I began to sing on the next LP with “Semplicità,” do you remember? [sings] Then there was Acqua e Viento produced and arranged by Pino Daniele and we did the track “Stop Bajon (Primavera).” (music: Tullio de Piscopo – “Stop Bajon (Primavera)”) David Nerattini You were telling me how this track can easily be danced to in 4/4, but is actually divided into seven. Tullio de Piscopo Yes, by seven, it’s not even. When Pino played me this sequence, I thought, “Damn, it’s not even.” This was Pino’s genius, it’s not even but you don’t notice. Only the musician notices. The track came out with my rhythm, the bajon that my father taught me, which I then gave to Adriano Celentano. And so, this sequence was born from this rhythm, written in seven. It was beautiful. This was Pino’s genius. David Nerattini What’s interesting is that this track became a big hit, I think it was one of the few pop songs on which Don Cherry played. The trumpet riff is one of the things that really sticks with you from the track. All of a sudden, you were a singer. Tullio de Piscopo You don’t understand, it was all a joke. “Damn, I should have started singing earlier instead of waiting until I was 35 years old and still drinking Folonari.” [laughter] After that I moved on to Moet Chandon, Dom Perignon, fine steaks... But we have to remember that I have been driving a Fiat 500 all my life. They stole my seats but I didn’t mind, it meant I could load the drums where the passenger seat would have been. The great master Renato Sellani sat behind while I drove but I didn’t have any seats. I had a tom-tom case, a rigid drum case, and I sat on it because I couldn’t find any original seats at the scrapyard. Finally, I found a seat from the 600 but I asked for it without the passenger seat so I could still fit the drums in. Then I added the luggage rack for when I travelled with my family. David Nerattini The 500, I can’t believe it. And then you became a singer and you went to Sanremo the very next year. Tullio de Piscopo I didn’t think I was right for Sanremo, I had already been playing in the orchestra. The evenings started back then to incredible success, I made a bit of money and then came another great record, Passaggio da Oriente, but we had split from Pino and the producer as well, we had divided the editorial parts. It was then that we made the song “E fatto ‘e Sorde! E?” dedicated to everybody who thinks they’re it, but really they’re nothing. Another hit. And then came the extraordinary success of “Andamento Lento.” David Nerattini Which became a classic Italian pop song. Tullio de Piscopo I was at Fiumicino Airport and I bumped into Marco Ravera, the head of Sanremo Festival and son of the great Gianna Ravera, who said, “Go on Tullio, make a song for Sanremo.” I answered, “Marco, do I look like a Sanremo artist?” “No! Just do what you do, come on!” So, I told my producer and we started looking for tracks by other people. This is an interesting story of how a hit is born. We found the Capuano brothers, who had a series of tracks. David Nerattini Enrico and Toni Capuano. Tullio de Piscopo Giosi. We went to see them in December 1987 and I had just got back from Harlem, where we had done a show called “Harlem meets Naples.” David Nerattini You can find it also on Youtube. Tullio de Piscopo With the great [James Brown]. David Nerattini At the Apollo Theatre. Tullio de Piscopo At the Apollo Theatre, and our chorus was the Temptations. David Nerattini It was a meeting of American and Neapolitan musicians. Tullio de Piscopo So, we went to see the Capuano brothers and they started playing us things. The first track was a march, then an excellent track called “Good Time my Friend” from the Bello Carico LP. Willy Deville and the Capuano brothers were lingering over this track which didn’t have a name, it was only called “Good Time my Friend” later. “Let’s do this for Sanremo,” I was saying to wait and play me the first march again, let me hear it again. “Let’s not waste time.” “No no, let me hear the march again.” I said I wanted to work on that and started experimenting with the electric drum kit. There were no lyrics, just you know... [sings mock lyric] David Nerattini A fake lyric. Tullio de Piscopo [sings mock lyric] And nothing... [sings mock lyric] There was nothing written... [sings mock lyric] Pause... [sings mock lyric] Pause... So, I just thought I’ll try. “No!” Willy Deville said I wouldn’t have to write the lyrics. “Why not, doesn’t he want me to earn anything?” And he said we had to find a great lyricist. Ok. So, they found... I can’t name names, the first wasn’t right, the second was even more famous than the first but still wasn’t right. Suddenly we had just 36 hours left until we had to submit the track for Sanremo, by midnight. We decided to meet up and do it all together. “As you wish.” I had already thought of something, I had thought of Bob Marley. We arranged to meet the next day at a house in Ostiense, near Cristoforo Colombo. I called a taxi to Hotel Clodio in Rome, via Santa Lucia. We went round a corner and we were instantly stuck in traffic. The cars were just piling up. “However am I going to get there?” And the taxi driver said, “What can you do, in Rome everything is slow going (andamento lento).” When the eternal father puts his hands... And I immediately thought of a phrase that wasn’t in the recording... [sings] “Andamento lento, andamento lento, andamento...” It was great! He is going to bring me luck. “Look, I don’t need to go to the apartment anymore. How much to Naples?” “Let’s call it four piotte.” “What are piotte?” “400,000 Lire.” “OK, that’s fine.” OK, so as soon as possible I pull over and I call my wife to let her know. Then I told him not to take the motorway because I didn’t like it. We did all the local roads, the Domiziana, the Pontina and the coast road. As soon as we got in the car, I asked if he had a tape player, “Cassette player?” “Yes.” So, I sat up front with a pen, a piece of paper and the tape. We hit the Pontina road. January, the rollers, the waves. [sings] “Scivola... Come un’onda libera mi porta via. Andamento lento questa melodia.” Bob Marley. “Risonanze nere senza ipocrisia.” Then what? “Andare un pò più su. Vieni via con me.” I’d written that at first and not “Vieni vieni.” “Vieni via con me.” Pause. “Vieni via con me.” Pause. Then what? “Vieni appresso a me.” It worked! It was finished by the time we got to Naples. “Now where?” “Don’t worry, go here, turn there.” And I took him for a pizza in Santa Lucia. Then I said, “Let’s go to Porta Capuana, we’ll have a nice lemonade and soda.” And then I went to say hello to my mother on the first floor. She was sleeping, but I played her the track and she said, “Beautiful, my love. This song will reward you. What will you call it?” “Andamento Lento.” “Perfect.” Bye and good night. Then the next day everyone was looking for me, we had a meeting at 3:00 pm. I’d disappeared and there were no phones. But otherwise we’d never have had that song. Then in the hotel I didn’t like “Vieni via con me” anymore, so I repeated “Vieni vieni, Vieni vieni.” “Vieni via con’, Vieni via” wasn’t bad but too Italian, too Milanese. “Vieni vieni con me,” it was nice! Modugno, “Voooolare.” Modugno made three notes there. “oh oh.” “Vieni vieni con me oh oh, Vieni vieni con me eh oh, alelai alelai alelai vieni appresso a me.” And then what? What about the same but in English? “Show me show me the way oh oh, show me show me the way eh oh,” a global hit [applause]. But I had to change the name then, it couldn’t be “Andamento Lento” anymore, but holy “Andamento Lento,” because I bought a house entirely in cash for my family who deserved a beautiful house. [applause] David Nerattini Of course, it was a turning point. Tullio de Piscopo The best thing was the critics. The critics can’t ever leave you alone. “Yes, but you made “Andamento Lento.”” “So, the hell what? Thank goodness! I don’t know you, who’s next?” Can’t you understand, you critic, that it saved my life? David Nerattini Also it came after having done all this other work. Tullio de Piscopo I’ve done everything! Why did I call it holy “Andamento Lento?” Because it made me rich. There are those who don’t sing their greatest hits, they’re ashamed. I sing it three times a night, three times. And the money just keeps on going up, you know? My fee never falls, it only gets higher. David Nerattini In fact, in recent years... Tullio de Piscopo Remember, it’s how you present yourself. David Nerattini Because the records are selling a bit less, the main thing is going to see a Tullio De Piscopo concert. Ever since you released the triple CD cataloguing your career to celebrate 50 years in the business. Tullio de Piscopo 56 tracks. David Nerattini Your concerts reflect that too so there’s a bit of everything, your hits, your more complex pieces, the jazz... Tullio de Piscopo Music! It’s music, we don’t have labels! They wanted to label me guys. I don’t want labels. I want money! [laughter] Do you understand? It’s crazy talk. Thank god that’s all over. David Nerattini Yes, as you can see with current musicians, the barriers between genres have fallen a bit nowadays, thank goodness. Tullio de Piscopo Yes! But I was joking before. The important thing is to be oneself, good and bad, got it? You can give it up without ever having success, if you know inside yourself that you’ve done something beautiful. Because I’ve been heckled plenty, but who cares! I’m fine, I’ve never done anything, I’ve never stolen anything from the stage, you know? This is the message to give to young people, be honest with yourselves. Play, get your voice out there, even if people don’t like it. They won’t like it now but there will come a moment when they do, for sure. [applause] David Nerattini Well, maestro it’s been amazing, but I think we should finish as we started. Tullio de Piscopo Yes! Can I? David Nerattini Say goodbye with drumsticks in hand, there is no better way. (music: Tullio De Piscopo live improvisation)