Umfang

Johnny Hockin

I guess we’re already going a little bit, so why don’t we get started and give a warm welcome to our guest on the couch, Umfang [applause]. Welcome. I kind of want to start with a song. Let’s play one off your new record.

(music: Umfang – “Full-1” / applause)

I think that really gives us a sense of one of your characteristic things, which is the use of space and having things feel spaced out. Tell us about that track just to get us going.

Umfang

Has anyone seen the movie Rashōmon? Anyone? No one? Okay. No one has seen Rashōmon?

Audience Member

It’s on my list, but I haven’t seen it.

Umfang

OK, well that’s good. That’s a start. I think I saw it in an east Asian studies class or something. It’s significant as far as cinema history I guess. That film has a lot of forest hunting scenes that are really creepy and it’s like a black and white movie and there are all these tricks that they, my teacher told me about, about how they used mirrors with the sun to beam off the trees so the lights were super shimmery and stuff.

Anyway. For whatever reason I’m kind of obsessed with that movie. I was thinking about it a lot when I was making this album. Most of my productions now are on one drum machine. Wait, does everyone like a music producer or most people in here? Like everyone almost... Everyone? OK, great. Cool. I use the BOSS DR-202. I love that drum machine because there’s so many weird tricks within it. One of them is that it has a bassline which you can pitch up the octave and record over in loops. So I could record that melody by also altering the effects on that sound, so it doesn’t really even sound like a keyboard or a bassline sound. I have that looping and then I can play it as a keyboard in a different octave live. That’s how I made that track. And then there’s just an echo delay dial on that drum machine that you can also manipulate live, and that’s what creates the space feeling. That’s the story of that track. That’s where my mind was.

Johnny Hockin

How many people in the room have used that drum machine before?

Umfang

One? OK, cool.

Johnny Hockin

I think that’s kind of characteristic, it’s not the most sought after, popular piece, but people who know talk about how you do so much with it.

Umfang

Yeah, well its, I guess BOSS is a subdivision of Roland that was cheaper, so it kind of looks like a toy and people are like, “Oh that’s a toy.” But then when you play a live set and everyone’s like, “Those are good kicks,” I’m like, “Yeah they’re all just like 909 samples.” You know it’s actually an amazing drum machine but I got it for 50 dollars. [laughs] That’s a big agenda for me is proving that cheap equipment is awesome. [laughs]

Johnny Hockin

Absolutely. So you’re from New York now but you grew up in Kansas.

Umfang

Yeah I was born in New York, which I claim for whatever reason, and then I moved to Kansas when I was six and lived there until I was 21.

Johnny Hockin

What was Kansas like?

Umfang

I don’t... Not stimulating enough, I guess. Kansas city’s really amazing but...

Johnny Hockin

Did you listen to a lot of music growing up? Was music like a primary thing?

Umfang

Yeah, my parents are sort of weird and introverted and I was introduced to nothing like what would be considered normal, I don’t know anything about American pop music, but that’s kind of cool too. I listened to classical music and hated it but now it seems important.

Johnny Hockin

When did you first get introduced to dance music?

Umfang

Late night radio had a lot of trance and stuff but I thought that... There was this weird thing in my mind where I was like, “That’s not serious music, that’s silly,” and then I didn’t realize that there was a whole other side until I was in college.

Johnny Hockin

This is Kansas late night radio that are all about trance?

Umfang

Kansas City, just that track DJ Fanny “Heaven.” Does anyone know that track? Yeah it’s incredible. I remember being 11 and writing that one down and being like, “This song is so good.” [laughter]. But yeah just that sort of ’90s trance, dance music, I guess. Or even like Janet Jackson or something, like that stuff was on the radio but I didn’t know about club culture.

Johnny Hockin

When did you find out about it?

Umfang

I guess in college, so when I was 17.

Johnny Hockin

You went to college in Kansas?

Umfang

Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

What was that experience, what opened your mind to club culture?

Umfang

I was at a state school but I was studying textiles, so I was in an art kind of program and some of the people I met had house parties or shows at bars and then eventually I got introduced to a scene in Kansas City where they were having warehouse parties and that was my first introduction to hearing a big sound system and understanding what a rave is like.

Johnny Hockin

Did you take to it right away, did you know you’d be a DJ?

Umfang

No I loved dancing, I’m not that into drugs so I just really liked going out dancing and I had friends that liked that too and DJ friends. A friend of mine who was running parties in Kansas City was like, “I know you’re into techno and you have a lot of it on your computer so I’m gonna teach you how to DJ so I can book you,” and I was like, “OK.” So I learned on Virtual DJ, that computer program and I was a Virtual DJ for, I don’t know, four years maybe.

Johnny Hockin

And did you play your first sets in Kansas?

Umfang

Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

What were they like?

Umfang

Giant raves in Kansas City. My friend was kind of like a hacker and made MySpace bots to invite every teenager in Kansas City [laughter]. So they were crazy, I mean it was cool, yeah it was great.

Johnny Hockin

Wow, so what kind of music were you playing?

Umfang

It was probably like tech house, it was kind of... I don’t know, yeah sort of introductory, early 2000s, like Nina Kraviz, Omar S sort of like... I don’t know.

Johnny Hockin

Is that what other people were playing at those raves?

Umfang

Yeah, or like Tensnake. That sort of cheesy danceable, I don’t know... It was the era where it was just easy to find that stuff on the Internet and everyone was just sharing huge files. There was a message board that I was a part of where we would just upload stuff and share things.

Johnny Hockin

It was a Kansas City message board.

Umfang

Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

Cool.

Umfang

But it’s gone now.

Johnny Hockin

Yeah RIP, so many message boards lost in the jungles of Facebook.

Umfang

Really emotional.

Johnny Hockin

So what took you to New York?

Umfang

I wanted to have an interesting job. So I moved to New York to try and be a textile designer but I never worked as a textile designer. I worked in fashion for a little while but then I was DJing pretty much from the first month I lived there just cause I happened to meet people that... I was kind of aggressive and I would be like, “I’m a DJ,” or, people would be like, “I run a bar,” and I’m like, “Oh do you hire DJs?” I just played at random places, but I didn’t identify with it necessarily, I wasn’t trying to be a DJ until way later.

Johnny Hockin

Was it starting in New York similar, like Tensnake on Virtual DJ? Or was it… Had you shifted?

Umfang

Gosh, I don’t really know what I was playing when I first moved to New York, probably. I feel like I had a lot of situations where people were like, “What are you playing?” ’Cos I was kind of playing harder techno or I was getting more into house I guess and it seemed like almost too much for most things in New York, it didn’t really make sense to play that in bars but I didn’t really know what else to do.

Johnny Hockin

Was it maybe that you hadn’t caught on to the underground dance scene, or was there no scene really at that time?

Umfang

The scene at that time in New York, in 2010 was really bad, it was a lot of tech house and I kind of hated every party I went to and it took me three years of living in New York to find people that I connected with and music that I liked.

Johnny Hockin

So who did you connect with, what were those people?

Umfang

It kind of correlated with... Well OK, so my laptop got stolen, which is really important in the story ’cos that made me start looking for records. There was a record store by my house that carried some L.I.E.S records and that was kind of popping up at the time, and then in my social life I started to run into the people who made those records. There were a few community spaces, like Body Actualize Center and 285 Kent. That’s where I started to meet people and then one of the owners of that venue opened a venue and things happened and then I started meeting people and then started talking about synthesizers and started wanting to get into production. So things just kind of changed and then I finally saw experimental electronic music and live hardware sets and that was the first time I had gotten to see that.

Johnny Hockin

I would like to play one of the songs off the first tape you put out.

Umfang

[laughs] OK.

Johnny Hockin

“Captain Rose?”

Umfang

Do whatever you want.

(music: Umfang – “Captain Rose”)

Johnny Hockin

Was this around that time or a little after?

Umfang

Yeah, well let’s see, in 2012 when the world was supposed to end that’s when I started buying synthesizers, and that’s when I started working on music. ’Cos it seemed really intimidating to me but I was like, “OK I only have one year so I might as well.” That’s when I started recording stuff. That was actually the time when Facebook was still nice and I could just chat people about synthesizers and audio interfaces and learn things. [applause]

Johnny Hockin

So you asked people about synthesizers on Facebook, you bought something and that came out?

Umfang

Yeah. That was, I had a Kaossilator Pro, I still have it, it’s awesome. I was just using the preset instruments in that. Then I put them on SoundCloud, because that’s how you shared things at the time. I probably had like ten followers, you know? Then this kid from London hit me up and was like, “Can I put this out on my label?” I was like, “Yeah, totally.” That was on Videogame Music. I’ve still never met him.

Johnny Hockin

Really?

Umfang

Yeah, we didn’t exchange any money or a contract or anything. I just have like 10 tapes, most of them are broken. But it’s awesome, in like that started things, you know?

Johnny Hockin

It’s kind of very characteristic right away. Did you take to it quickly? Did you have a sense like, “I have a sound”?

Umfang

I had no idea, no. I just, I was just like trying to make stuff and record it and I also got the Volca Beats and the Volca Keys right when they came out, that was in 2013 maybe or 2000... Maybe that was 2012? Yeah, I was just into the making of sounds, recording things. I didn’t know that much, but I feel like I had some knowledge of some things. I don’t know, I was just experimenting.

Johnny Hockin

Did you get a sense right away that you were doing it differently than the people who were focused on collecting gear and getting the best gear?

Umfang

Yeah, in a way, but also, it’s just like that’s what I could afford. Getting into something, I feel like, it’s hard to know for sure you’re going to like it. So it seems kind of crazy to me to spend a $1,000 on something that you’re not sure you’re into or you’re going to be good at. The Volcas were like $120 or something. Yeah, I don’t know.

Johnny Hockin

I’m just going to play a little clip of another one from that tape. This one is “Universal.”

(music: Umfang – “Universal” / applause)

So tell me about polyrhythms, how they came into your work. Is that something that you focused on that you’ve looked in to?

Umfang

I don’t know if I knew what that meant at the time. But then I remember learning about polyrhythms and reading about polyrhythms and being like, “This is amazing!” So I know that I was obsessed with how when you have a sequence and you make irregular steps, or make a one-step sequence that has eight steps and one that has five, how things overlap and interact really strangely, but I don’t know if I knew what that meant at the time that I was making those things.

I like sort of studied music when I was younger, so I kind of knew about that, but yeah, I feel like I was really just experimenting, totally just experimenting.

Johnny Hockin

You say you later looked into polyrhythms, are you a researcher? Is that something you do, or just something you looked into?

Umfang

No, I think I just Googled polyrhythms and then read the Wikipedia article and you’re like, “Wow.” A friend of mine sent me an article about how you can find polyrhythms in all these ancient cultures, and how that relates to math. You can get really deep in it, and it’s super awesome, but it’s like intuitive to me at the time as well, how things interact. If you listen to any drumming, you realize that that exists. But then, yeah, if you want to intellectualize it more, you can and it’s pretty fascinating.

Johnny Hockin

How did you first meet Frankie [Hutchinson] and Christine [McCharren-Tran]?

Umfang

I met Frankie through Bossa Nova Civic Club and she was a regular there, I was a regular there. She came up to me just to say, “I like this track, and I come from London. This reminds me of back in the day.” I would see her around, she definitely stood out to me like someone that seemed great. Then she asked me to do a piece for the magazine she was working with, just about an intro to techno sort of thing. So we met up and hit it off, then we just met up every week. Then we got close really quick, and started talking about, we realized we both had an interest in politics, and talking about the history of techno, and how the roots of techno are covered up, how most people think it’s European and really it’s from Detroit and it’s made by black people. That needs to be talked about because it’s really important.

We started talking about that, and we had all these connections, then we started planning to do an event to showcase all the female DJs we knew in the scene. We brought on Christine because she was excellent at event organizing. That’s how I met Christine, was like, through this project and through this idea, and then it just went really well, and we’ve been working together ever since.

Johnny Hockin

Tell me about that first festival, the first collaboration that the three of you were on.

Umfang

Yeah, we just did a two-day festival at Bossa Nova where it was a different DJ every hour for two nights in a row, like 8 to 4. It was kind of insane. Everyone donated their time, and then we donated our profits to a local nonprofit, I’m blanking on which one we used the first year, but our model was like, educational nonprofit to help women or young people learn something. We wanted to be proactive with the way that we were directing our funds.

Johnny Hockin

Was it called Discwoman right away?

Umfang

We had a few meetings about what to call it, and we had a few stupid ideas. Then Discwoman became the obvious choice.

Johnny Hockin

What was the response to the festival?

Umfang

It was huge, and we didn’t anticipate that. We got a lot of press, we had a friend working for Thump at the time. That was our first article, I guess. Then we had a lot of people just reaching out, like we made an e-mail and a Facebook page and all that, Twitter, so we were reachable quickly. Yeah, people were like, “I want to do this in my city, this is so inspiring.” We had no idea it would be such an innovative idea, because it seemed pretty obvious to us. That’s kind of like what really shifted the path. We just wanted to make one party and never do it again.

Johnny Hockin

What were your conversations amongst the three of you when you started to realize, “People are hitting us up, there’s a huge response.”

Umfang

It was just like, “OK, how are we going to do this?” We never planned any of it, we weren’t scheming to do more. It was just like, “How do we react to what has happened best?” Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

You guys really took up the mantle. What happened next?

Umfang

I think we did an event in Boston, was the first. I think that was the first satellite Discwoman event where promoters on the ground there helped, and we did a panel and a talk, then a party and then an after-party. We also did something in Montreal really shortly after, but yeah. It was just like, whoever kind of was like, “Hey, I want to do this in my city, let’s work it out.” That’s how it started to grow.

Johnny Hockin

You talked about panels, what were the panels? What were the topics? What were you trying to do with those?

Umfang

I think it was just really a basic, starting that conversation of... I think Frankie and I in particular were in a position where we were just like, kind of aggressive people within this scene and we were not really acknowledging that we were a bit blinded to how someone might feel if they’re not incredibly aggressive within that world. I don’t think I would have admitted that it is any different to be a woman in music. I was kind of being a female misogynist at the time and being like, “You just work really hard and then you’re good and everyone books you.”

I was just so aggressive that I was not taking the time to realize that that’s not how it is for most people and that’s not really helping anyone or making it feel open to anyone. It was just sort of having that conversation and starting to hear more people, and realize that also in New York, we had such an advantage. In New York, we could trick ourselves that progress had happened, and everything was chill.

We had really blinded ourselves to the fact that in some places, women are really disrespected and not trusted. We had to listen to that and realize how much worse it is in other places and how much more work there is to be done.

Johnny Hockin

It seems like that inspired you guys to push on and do more, and deepen the involvement.

Umfang

Totally. If you’re prone to activism, it’s not a choice. That’s what’s kind of funny to express, none of us chose to do it. We just realized how scary the world was, is, and had to deal with that and try and do what we can to uplift other people, basically.

Johnny Hockin

Was it right away that you wanted to bring an education element?

Umfang

I guess so. It just seems like a value and for me personally, I wish I would have had access to music lessons or the idea that I could be a music producer, piano lessons, anything like that I feel like is a stepping stone into having more of a career and belief in yourself. I just think that that’s so essential, and wasn’t very accessible to me or to a lot of people, and a lot of children.

I feel like if you start people younger and tell people it’s okay to spend time in your room and playing with a drum machine, that’s really cool. It definitely became, I became more and more angry that I didn’t know that that was possible.

Johnny Hockin

Tell us a little bit about some of the workshops that you’ve done and some of the responses you’ve gotten.

Umfang

Yeah. I’ve done mostly CDJ workshops, it’s really fun. I think it’s cool to demystify it. I’ve done some drum machine workshops and some vinyl workshops and then I also have people come to my house a lot. I try to be really open about letting people or little groups of people come and play on equipment, because I feel like that accessibility can be an obstacle for people getting into it.

Johnny Hockin

What kind of people respond to those events and go to them and have the biggest change?

Umfang

All kinds of people. Intersessions that’s based in Canada, did an event in New York that was like, huge and awesome, where there was vinyl lessons, CDJ lessons, computer DJ lessons, Serato lessons all in the same evening, and it was packed. I feel like through social media, people will reach out through Instagram, or whatever, come over, or friends, or friends of friends.

Johnny Hockin

You’ve also been very nurturing to beginners through your club night as well.

Umfang

True. I like to make people DJ before they’re ready. I feel like if I see in someone that they’re passionate or they’re working towards that or idolize DJing or they’re collecting tracks, I’ll be like, “You should open my party. No one will be there, it’s fine.” From seeing that work, over and over again, people are like, “That went really well, now I’m going to try harder, I want to do that again.”

Sometimes I feel like people need to be pushed a little bit to get more comfortable. Also booking people super powerful, if you throw someone in, they have to practice for the gig, and then they get better. It’s cool.

Johnny Hockin

Tell us about your party, Technofeminism.

Umfang

It didn’t used to be called that. I renamed it after Discwoman started because I became more comfortable about talking about gender politics within electronic music. Technofeminism, I book men and women, but mostly women. I just try and find people that I think are doing cool stuff and since we have a fixed budget it’s like as long as, and has a built-in crowd, if I trust that somebody is going to appreciate it I’m totally down to book people that have never played a big gig before. Then I do the party with my friend Bailey, Bailey Bray, who I know from Kansas City. We started DJing in the same scene. We’ve been doing that party for four years now, I think. Now we have a weekend, we used to have a Tuesday.

Johnny Hockin

I know it’s not necessarily your part of Discwoman but it’s now a booking agency, as well as a collective and party promoter. Why did you guys become such an all-encompassing business entity, and what has come out of that? What have you learned from that?

Umfang

We kind of would joke that Frankie could be my agent, wouldn’t that be funny? And now she’s my agent, and she’s amazing. Basically, it was identifying under-representation in the scene. Once we did that event there was me, there was DJ Volvox, there were these other DJs that were doing a really great job, either booking parties or performing, they really had their thing down, but nobody was latching on to it or it wasn’t going anywhere. Rather than being like, “I feel like I’m just as good as that person but I’m never going to get an agent,” because of whatever reason, we just made our own agency. And that worked.

I don’t know, that just seemed like us filling a void that we saw, and trying to get really professional about it, and to try to be a business formula where if you skim 10% off of everybody’s fees, there’s a little bit to work with for our business. What were your other... That was a several part question, sorry.

Johnny Hockin

I’m kind of interested in how DIY is it versus trying to integrate into the music industry, create infrastructure, or are you trying to stay outside…

Umfang

It’s both. We did it ourselves, but we try to present ourselves as professionally as possible so that people realize that the whole music industry thing is total bullshit, and every agency is bullshit, and every agency is just like some people that represent other people that they think they can make money off of. Maybe they have a vision, like I shouldn’t give it no credit. But just that that whole untouchable thing, that was so guarded, it’s like, “OK, so we’re going to do our own.” If they acknowledge it, that’s cool, but also it doesn’t matter. I feel like we skipped a few steps in some ways, where it’s like... I went to Europe twice and played shitty bars, and then my first tour was at Berghain. I didn’t need to have that approval from the people that weren’t going to give me approval. We went to one of the biggest industry places, so I don’t know.

It’s hard to have the confidence to feel like you can do your own thing and be appreciated by a bigger infrastructure. But you really can. I think people have criticized Discwoman for working within an infrastructure that’s still patriarchal and capitalistic, but at this point I feel that if we’re diverting money to people that we believe in, then so be it. It’s not our fault that capitalism exists.

Johnny Hockin

You said it makes quite a difference to pay someone who wouldn’t otherwise get paid, makes quite a difference to them.

Umfang

Well yeah.

Johnny Hockin

And their trajectory, they keep going.

Umfang

For sure, yeah. You can build someone’s career out of nowhere, if they’re putting in the work and you spotlight them.

Johnny Hockin

OK, I want to go back to production a little bit. I’m going to play “Ok.”

Umfang

Oh dear.

Johnny Hockin

What do you think of “Ok”?

Umfang

I think it’s kind of silly.

(music: Umfang – “Ok” / applause)

Johnny Hockin

So you think that one’s silly?

Umfang

Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

I love the way you have that floating drop, when the drop comes at the time you don’t expect.

Umfang

Oh yeah.

Johnny Hockin

That’s from a record of DJ edits, or songs that are more DJ focused I suppose?

Umfang

Yeah, I guess I was thinking of them as DJ tools. I was really into those records from the early ’90s that were just 10 short tracks that were weird little loops. I love those.

Johnny Hockin

Maybe we can talk a little bit about your style of DJing then, and how a song like that fits into DJing. I mentioned when we played the first song you make spacey music quite often, there’s a lot of space. But you’re known for some of the hardest banging techno sets in the world, really.

Umfang

[laughs] Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

What draws you to playing hard?

Umfang

I don’t know, it’s just what I like. I don’t know how to explain it, I just have really opinionated taste about what I want. Since I started digging for records, everything just got so much more interesting, and I became super fascinated with the early ’90s era of techno. Both the playfulness of those records, which I have nicknamed alien mode, there were so many of these loopy records that just have freaky noises. A lot of it, I guess it’s all hardware techno. But just random glitches, and weird places where the songs will stop and become something different, or there’s a lot of track reverses and beat drops. I love those weird sort of tricks in old techno. I also feel like at the beginning of a genre being made, it’s the most intense and awesome. You can track that in hip-hop, or any genre of music I feel it goes through a phase in the beginning where it’s starting, where it’s like super exciting and weird, and then it gets more boring, and then it becomes a James Blake tech-house remix, you know? But, I’m really interested in those old records, yeah.

Then there’s a DJ Rush record that I Instagrammed, that he has this little piece about… Well, it’s called Keep the Peace EP, and he has this little line about keeping the peace, and being in it for the music, and it’s just like faster and faster. And, that’s how I feel. I don’t know. I think especially New York people need to be stimulated, because everything is so intense and kind of terrible there. So, there’s something I really connect to about just that intense stimulus, and getting you out of your thoughts. It’s like if everyone’s just so anxious all the time, techno is the only thing that calms me down. So, I feel like the more insane, fast, banging techno actually makes my brain feel happy.

Johnny Hockin

And, it works well in New York. But, you play hard around the world, now.

Umfang

Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

What’s the response, taking... Doing what you do, around the world?

Umfang

I mean, people like it. I feel like people do a lot of drugs in Europe, but people like it. Sometimes I’ve been criticized in Europe for not keeping it consistent, where it’s… I feel like I identify a lot more with hip-hop DJs, where I love footwork. So, I’m more excited about that experience, of just intensity, polyrhythmic changes, things shifting around really quickly. But, that’s not how techno DJs are supposed to be. So, I feel like if I have a stop in my set, or a track that doesn’t have a beat for a while, or something like that, some people in Europe are really mad at that, which I think is really funny. But, I don’t know. I just play what I like, and now that I’m hunting for records, it’s become more unique, and I basically stopped downloading music, because I just don’t like anything that’s coming out right now, except for what people I know have sent me.

So, I don’t know. It’s made me like a super weird DJ, and I don’t really know where I’m going with it. It’s just that I have a hard time with only doing what resonates with me. So, for now, I’m just hunting for weird records, and that’s what works.

Johnny Hockin

Those unpredictable moments like the drop in “Ok”, for instance, disarm a dance floor and there’s that moment where people are really excited about a drop, but also they’re getting back into the groove.

Umfang

Totally, and I’m obsessed with that. I like how you can refocus people by shifting things around, because I get bored so easily, and I want to be captivated for... Like, my favorite DJ sets are like, “OK, I’m going to go home after the next track. OK, I’m going to go home after the next track, I’m going to go home when they play a boring track, I’m going to go home.” When you are kind of interested in what happens next, then that’s the goal. So, I’m not really interested in the one flow for one hour, two hours, five hours, 24 hours. It doesn’t interest me.

Johnny Hockin

I’m going to play a song called “Aaaaaaa.” How is that pronounced? [laughter] This is one of my favorites, actually.

(music: Umfang – “Aaaaaaa” / applause)

So, that’s one where you’re expanding your palate. Quite a bit of sounds. Maybe take us through the procession of gear, as you’ve gone through your career, and what you were really into when you’re making things.

Umfang

That EP split tape thing was all from the Volca Sample, and the DR202. But the... I mean, from collecting old records, I got really obsessed with, within sampling, I got really obsessed with in a lot of old rave records there are really good moments, because there’s all these weird things that happen. But also there’s a lot of weird things that happen at the beginning and end of tracks. Even like the “Ok” sample is literally, at the end of this crazy rave track, it goes, “Like that? Ok.” And it’s like, “Why did it do that?” You know? But, same as that sample. It’s... I just found it in a track. Then the Volca Sample, I can’t tell how I feel about it, but it’s compatible with iPhones exclusively. So, you record it through their app in an iPhone and then you can import it with an eighth inch cable into the thing, and then you can make a step sequencer with your own samples but they’re really not good sound quality samples. But I was okay with that.

Yeah. So, that was cool, because you can basically make your own drum palate from your own samples, and just build and build and build, and introduce things. Then, MIDI sync it with a drum machine, like the BOSS DR-202.

Johnny Hockin

And, that’s, there’s a lot of build up to a big drop. And that drop feels so big.

Umfang

Well, that EP, split tape, everybody, there are four people, and everybody had 18 minutes I think? And they said like, “Do whatever you want with 18 minutes.” So, I actually, it was one track initially and that’s why it’s so strangely building. So, it was an 18-minute track, and then it, for whatever reason... I think I just re-recorded it, because it was clipping, or something, and then it ended up being three different tracks in the same family.

Johnny Hockin

So, what’s your process of tracking, or how deliberate are you like, “Here’s a song,” versus “Here’s an improvisation?”

Umfang

It’s all meant to be a song, I think. Well, actually, I used to do more improvisational stuff, because I wasn’t really aiming to make a live set. So, I would just get something that was interesting going and then record it. But, I tend to just like, every time I sit down, record stuff. But I don’t want to rearrange anything after I record it, and I don’t want to have to edit anything in the computer. So, I try to make things in one take. But sometimes, some things you can’t save anything on, and you just have to make a patch that works and record it. But, yeah, I mean, if I collaborated with an Ableton wizard, I’m sure we could make more interesting things, but it’s not my... I don’t know. It’s not what I do.

Johnny Hockin

So, a lot of the time, are you just working in stereo? Are you just capturing a stereo file? Or, are you doing layer, and layer, and layer?

Umfang

It’s all through the shittiest audio interface, in either mono... Usually in mono, now, because I found out that mono’s better for techno. I became friends with a mastering engineer in New York, and she was telling me that it makes way more sense to make your tracks in mono for the club, because there’s never going to be a point where stereo actually is applicable for that space and things can be louder. So, I was like, “Great. I thought that I just didn’t know anything.”

But yeah, I record... Sometimes, I’ll multi-track my drums from my other sounds, so that I have a little bit of options to EQ things. But, that’s pretty recent. Like, my friend Nick, who is Bookworms, he’s like, “Oh, I’ve never multi-tracked,” and I looked up to him. That was several years ago, and he was like, “Yeah, I don’t know how to do that,” and I was like, “Oh, cool. You don’t have to do that. Ok.” Yeah.

Johnny Hockin

All right. Let’s listen to something off of Riffs, which was I think your first vinyl release?

Umfang

Yep.

Johnny Hockin

Not that.

(music: Umfang – “Force” / applause)

What was it like to be on vinyl? When that came out, were you obsessed with vinyl, to the degree you are now?

Umfang

Yeah. It’s all, it feels so special. It’s awesome. Yeah, getting a... I think it’s like I don’t usually take the time to have that moment, or something. I was like, “Cool. My test pressing works. All right, cool. Next.” You know? I didn’t feel comfortable taking the time to be like, “Wow, my first record,” you know? But I’m really proud of that record. It’s still my favorite thing I’ve ever made. Yeah. I had this really sick set up, where I was running the BOSS DR-202 and then a x0xb0x, which is a 303 clone controlling a microKORG. So, I was making patterns on the x0xb0x and then having them be in the voice of the microKORG, which just made these really interesting things happen.

But, that whole record has no 4/4, because I was really excited about footwork. No 4/4 and then just those two elements of having one melodic part and then the drum part. But then, I could never get that to work again after I made that album. So, someday, hopefully, I can figure it out again, but yeah, I was really into that combination.

Johnny Hockin

How do you approach gear? Do you have a time you spend with one thing, or are you building, always using the same pieces?

Umfang

It’s just what I come into contact with, and if I like it or not, basically. I don’t know a lot, and I’m not into researching on the Internet, so I don’t think that I’ve ever really been like, “I really want this piece of gear.” I’m more interested in what happens to come into my life, like the DR-202, for example. My friend Octo Octa was selling, and I was like, “Oh, cool. I’ll try that.” I feel like the MPC is the only thing that I’m like, I have a bit of an animosity toward. When things are too, when the learning curve is too steep, I feel like I get really, I’m very impatient. So, although I love and respect the MPC, and I still have it, I want to be able to record something, and feel like I’ve gotten somewhere within a few hours.

Johnny Hockin

So, you have an MPC?

Umfang

I do.

Johnny Hockin

Do you use it?

Umfang

No.

Johnny Hockin

No, OK.

Umfang

But I did, I have. I made a remix on an MPC. I made a few tracks that I don’t like on an MPC, yeah.

Johnny Hockin

Cool. I also really love “Spaces on Spaces.” Maybe I’ll just play you a little clip of that too.

Umfang

Sure.

(music: Umfang – “Spaces on Spaces” / applause)

Johnny Hockin

That’s another one from Riffs. Maybe you can talk a little bit about K-Hand, because I really like about what you said about her in an interview once, that she was good to you.

Umfang

Yeah. Does anyone know who K-Hand is? Good. I didn’t know about K-Hand until a friend of mine posted one of her tracks on Facebook and I thought it was amazing. I didn’t know anything, again, I said I don’t do research very well. I was like, “Oh, that’s cool. This is definitely a man. That’s awesome, love the techno,” and then maybe a year or two later I found out that K-Hand is a black woman from Detroit and she’s the same age as of all of these people that we know as the founders of Detroit techno, and I dove really deep into her career and saw how many records she’s put out. She has her own label and I was just obsessed with her. I think she’s so cool. Discwoman was planning a party in Detroit, let’s see, three years ago, I think. I was like, “I wonder if K-Hand will play our party?” Then we somehow... The people we were collaborating with, one of them knew her, because Detroit’s kind of a small town in some ways. They were like, “We’ll ask but she doesn’t do that. She won’t do that.” They explained that we were doing an event where we wanted the proceeds to go to an educational non-profit in Detroit, and she liked that, because we were putting money back into the city instead of taking money out of the city, and she said yes. She played Discwoman Detroit, and then they shut her set down an hour early because they were being assholes. There were so many infrastructure problems there, but anyway.

She played our event and it was amazing, and then she was like, “My friend Juan Atkins is playing around the corner if you want to come with me.” Then I was like, “OK!” We went there, she was like, “This is my friend Emma, we’re supposed to be on the list.” She wasn’t on the list or something, but somebody got her. She was just so sweet and she was like, “This is my friend Emma,” and I was like, “What? Really?” Yeah so I went and saw Juan Atkins with K-Hand in Detroit at the historic venue. Is it 1414 Broadway? What’s the address? I don’t remember. She was just awesome and a lot of people were saying, “She doesn’t really go out that much,” but I kept running into her and she would tell us what parties to go to and she was like, “My colleague Nina Kraviz is playing later, I’m going to go to that.”

I don’t know, I was really fascinated and really star struck, and I just wanted to be like, “What’s your studio setup like?” But I didn’t. She was just really warm and it was cool to meet her and she’s just been underrepresented her whole life and her whole career, even within that scene and sort of bringing more attention to Detroit techno roots I feel like she’s still kind of not talked about that much. It’s like when I was talking to her, she had a membership to Paradise Garage and would drive to New York every weekend, which is a 10-hour drive. It’s just mind blowing to me. It’s really powerful, being involved in something where you can meet the people that started it and get that perspective and see how different things are and see how things have changed. I don’t know. She’s an idol for sure. I could play her track, too.

Johnny Hockin

Yeah, let’s hear a little.

Umfang

I loaded it. My favorite K-Hand track. She has a lot of amazing tracks and a lot of really pounding tracks, and classic tracks, but this one’s like my favorite, and I play it pretty much every time I DJ.

(music: K-Hand – “Mystery” / applause)

This is really good, I just feel like I don’t even want to turn it down. Anyway.

Johnny Hockin

So as Discwoman has expanded and you guys have done more things globally what other reactions have surprised you, besides being welcomed by people like K-Hand?

Umfang

I guess it’s just really surreal in general to do anything that resonates with other people. It’s like it’s really cool that there are people all around the world that are like, “I love Discwoman. I love what you guys are doing.” I’m like, “Wow. Cool. That’s so awesome.” Just having any recognition from international press is crazy and people around the world. I was just thinking about how DJ Stingray is our friend and calls me “young Emma” and I’m like, “How am I this blessed?” It’s just really special to see that what we’re doing resonates with other people and to see other collectives pop up and people saying, “We were inspired by what you did and now we’re doing it in our own way.” That’s so proactive and awesome.

Johnny Hockin

I think was it Forbes magazine that you guys were in?

Umfang

We were in Forbes. We were on the 30 under 30 list, which is insane.

Johnny Hockin

Congratulations. [applause]

Umfang

My late grandfather would be proud or something, but I don’t know. It’s just funny though to see like what people... It’s like people recognize certain things over others like famous institutions, like business institutions, that feels different I guess than like a Thump article. It does. It’s like weird that your nightlife thing or your personal music productions or something would carry over into being recognized by a business publication I guess. That seems surprising to me, but cool.

Johnny Hockin

One thing you just mentioned that people taking action in their own communities, how far reaching has that become? Are you guys trying to work with small collectives in every town? What sort of things have you heard from around the world?

Umfang

We don’t unfortunately really have the bandwidth or infrastructure to do everything, even though we would love to. But there are people that have reached out from India. There are people that have reached out from Australia. South Africa has a big scene that’s awesome. There are places that seem really geographically far away that are just right there with us in that vision, and it’s cool when someone might go there and come back and say, “There’s a huge following.” A friend of mine literally studied in South Africa for a few months and she was like, “People are so into Discwoman there. You guys have to go there.” And it’s like, “Wow,” that’s super awesome and cool, really exciting. I don’t know. I think I just am constantly surprised by how geographically different places are all connected by a similar theme beyond electronic music, but also the politics of electronic music. That’s awesome.

Johnny Hockin

Maybe we’ll get ready for questions, but first we’ll end with something from the new record. I want to play “Weight” unless you want to play something else.

Umfang

Do whatever you like.

Johnny Hockin

Tell me about the new record, the genesis, where it came from.

Umfang

The whole thing?

Johnny Hockin

Yes.

Umfang

Most of my records, EPs, whatever, projects are just like a section in time of me doing recordings and then sort of piecing it together. I don’t really work from a concept. I more just see what happens and then build something from that. This track I think actually is from a different group of songs.

(music: Umfang – “Weight”)

It wasn’t made with the rest. I think this is one that like... It’s like I sent Technicolor a few batches and this is from the first batch or something, but everything else is from the last one or something.

Johnny Hockin

How long did it take to make the record then?

Umfang

Maybe like three months.

Johnny Hockin

That’s pretty short.

Umfang

Yes. It’s like I’m always recording when I can, which actually weirdly isn’t that often because I like to work during the way and I like to be focused. When I do a session ideally I’ll be able to record three different songs and maybe out of a several month-long session there will be 30 songs and five of them I like or something like that. Then working with Technicolor was just me saying, “I want this order,” and them saying, “I want this order,” and then us figuring it out together. And then I did the concepting in my mind a little more and that’s what helped me name the tracks. Then the title kind of came from the concept, and then the album art also came from the concept. But that all came after the recordings.

Johnny Hockin

I’m just going to turn it up because…

Umfang

But this was made in a batch like...I was making a lot of sad music because around the time of the elections in America it was like not cute. Yeah. It’s been bad in America.

Johnny Hockin

This a sad one?

Umfang

I wouldn’t necessarily say sad but reactionary. It’s a really hard time to feel like anybody has a voice or a chance at living a normal life in America right now. I guess I had a lot of feelings. And I was also reacting really hard to just the way that I was seeing the techno scene moving into this white, bro tech-house thing that I just hate, and I was just like, “I’m not willing to be a part of that.” That’s where my head was at for a lot of that season.

Johnny Hockin

When was this made?

Umfang

Like last fall. I had my first meeting with Technicolor last August, and then we confirmed things by October and then everything was done by January.

Johnny Hockin

That one’s called “Weight.” [applause]

Umfang

As in like heaviness.

Johnny Hockin

Do you feel like there’s been anything positive that’s come out of the past year, whether it be in US politics or in bro tech scene?

Umfang

There’s just some breaking down of that and more women getting booked, which is great. More recognition of the white washing of techno and how that’s not cool. The mayor of New York seems kind of chill, but everything else seems like of bad.

Johnny Hockin

You mentioned there’s progress on the Cabaret Law. Can you just briefly tell us what that is?

Umfang

It is illegal to dance in New York City. Did you know that? There’s a law from the ’20s that was established during the jazz era to shut down jazz clubs, which one might say is racist. They are trying to overturn this in New York City, which has been tried before and it’s never succeeded. Frankie, my business partner and the owner of a club and some other folks in New York are really championing this team to let New York City dance and they’re getting pretty far with it, which is crazy. There was a meeting at city hall open to the public about two weeks ago and I went to that. They just asked for testimonies as to why this law should be overturned. And then that day was really significant because the mayor signed on saying that he agrees that this law should be repealed finally.

Basically if you’re a bar you can get fined or shut down if there are people caught dancing in your establishment. Bossa Nova Civic Club has a sign on the wall that says, “No smoking. No dancing.”

The Cabaret Law just makes it really hard for clubs... It’s just one of many fines that are stuck on when clubs get in trouble for anything. It’s just so, so impossible to have a safe space, and that’s part of the angle, especially after the fire in Oakland, just acknowledging no one in Oakland wanted to be in a dangerous space, but that’s where the options were pushed because of the city infrastructure. Just holding the city accountable and saying it’s not these people, it’s not their fault that there was a fire in this DIY space.

It’s actually your fault for not allowing anyone to have a legal space that feels safe. It’s just like seeing it from the top down instead of blaming the people that are just trying to relax in a place that they feel comfortable. Hopefully by November we’ll know, and I’m sure that it will be national news.

Johnny Hockin

Do you think this is a sign that Bill de Blasio is listening to the art scene?

Umfang

In a way yes, but I think also just that because of social media and the strategy with Let NYC Dance campaign, they’ve done it right and they’ve gotten the attention of the right people and council members speaking for them. I think in some ways when you follow those infrastructures you have more success getting respect from the mayor.

Johnny Hockin

We’re going to open it up to questions. If anyone has anything they’d like to ask.

Audience Member

Has any other films resonated with your music?

Umfang

I haven’t thought about it. I don’t know. I’m sorry I can’t explain.

Audience Member

That’s okay.

Johnny Hockin

But we all need to see Rashōmon.

Umfang

I guess I just like visual abstract movies, films. It’s not like I’ve dug really deep. It’s just like sometimes I’ll come across something and be really obsessed with it.

Audience Member

You said one of the songs was a good song to cry to. I just wanted to know besides music, what other helps you with the ups and downs and stuff in life I guess? Other than music what helps you out and stuff like that?

Umfang

Making food with friends. I don’t know. I have a partner that I like right now. I don’t know. That’s tough. Literally I’m really attached to music more than anything. It’s a transitional phase. That’s a good question to ask, but it’s also like I’m not sure... It’s like I’m trying to figure that out, but right now techno is what works.

Audience Member

Got you.

Johnny Hockin

I know there’s probably young people who will listen to this who may be just hearing about Discwoman for the first time. What do you tell people when they wonder what can they do in their community?

Umfang

Someone just hit me up on Instagram a few weeks ago and they were like, “I don’t know anyone that does anything that I like in my city. I don’t know where to go. But I kind of want to start a party but should I collaborate with these people that I hate?” And I was like, “Do you know anyone that makes anything that you like?” And they were like, “No.” I was like, “Do you know any DJs that you like?” and they were like, “I guess so.” I was just like, “Start there. If you and your friend DJ and you like what they do maybe you guys should trade mixes.” Just sort of encouraging any sort of collaboration.

If no one else pays attention to you then you might as well trade mixes with your friend or have people over and mix records together. It’s just like starting really small or reminding people that no one else has to care. I was pretty satisfied when I was just uploading tracks to SoundCloud to my 11 followers. That was nice. Just kind of like making small communities, like really small, is okay and it doesn’t have to be public or something. But also I don’t know how to do without working with other people, as far as it being on a grand scale. In my own life I can make music and feel okay, but the collaborative element is key to Discwoman.

Johnny Hockin

Any more questions?

Audience Member

I would say once again, if it weren’t for textile design, right, do you think you’d be DJing today? Because you did say that, you went to New York for textile design and then you just ended up finding jobs and stuff. If it weren’t for that do you think you’d still be DJing to this day or even producing or so?

Umfang

I mean to be honest, they’re the same in my mind. Textiles is like binary code, which is like one and zero. To me it’s like pattern design in any form. This is the form that seems like less wasteful to me and more directly emotional. That’s what I’m into now. But I also still am interested in textiles. I don’t know. I think it’s just more me following what I resonate with, and it doesn’t necessarily matter the medium, but I’m glad it worked out this way.

Audience Member

Hi. This is on? Yes, OK. How would you quantify or describe bro tech house?

Umfang

I guess what I find to be a copy and paste method and not someone that’s trying to express what’s inside of them. I feel like there are groups of people that are in a pattern of doing what’s comfortable to them and they don’t realize that they’re perpetuating this white supremacy, anti-women environment and that in order to help make changes that has be shattered. I guess it can sound vague if I’m just saying that, but I feel like it’s just like that’s the dominant culture and that’s not something that resonates with me. I’m not okay with it just staying like that.

Audience Member

Hey.

Umfang

Hey.

Audience Member

I think there’s something really special in techno where we have this community of people who really want to be in inclusive and really want to foster each other. And then I think there’s something on the other end too where sometimes people can... There’s like this call-out culture right now that happens, and I feel like what’s the difference between calling someone out and bullying someone in maybe your eyes? What would be the difference to you?

Umfang

I guess just like accountability. If you’ve offended someone and you’re like, “I’m sorry that I’ve offended you and I want to make it better,” then there’s no conflict. Really it’s like, “Let’s work this out.” For example, like on Twitter or something, something might happen where someone’s like, “That’s whack,” and then the person is like, “No, it’s not. This is what I believe,” and then it becomes this whole thing, this whole thread, this whole blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When someone’s like, “This person is whack. You’ve offended me for these reasons,” and the person is like, “I’m sorry I’ve offended you. Can we talk about this? What I can do better?”

It’s just like so basic to me, but I feel like there can be really nasty problems with someone being like, “This person’s terrible,” and then everyone being like, “What? They’re terrible? Oh my God, I didn’t know,” and then this crazy thing could happen. But I just feel like, I don’t know, maybe it’s too idealistic of me, but most of the time those things are going to shake out in the way that they should because if something truly evil is happening it’s really different than a misunderstanding with good intention. I don’t know. That’s how I feel about it. I don’t know.

Audience Member

Hi.

Umfang

Hey.

Audience Member

In your experience in North America, where do you think has the strongest DIY scene? What city?

Umfang

It’s too broad. America is huge. Also, things are so fleeting. When I was in Kansas City there was this moment, and it was incredible. There might have been a moment in Detroit too or something, and then the economy changes and there’s a crackdown with police or something and everything just kind of falls apart. And it works the same even in New York City where it’s like there will be a wave of awesome, and then everything just gets shut down and it’s awful. I guess the cool thing is to find a good party that’s happening right now, and then maybe that’s going to last a year. I don’t know how to answer that because the Midwest I think is really special, and I don’t really know why.

There’s something about towns that had big industry that collapses and then they have those buildings, and then they can repurpose those buildings, and there’s something really magical about that. And also I think when there are big working class towns there’s like a different kind of feeling internally about hope and opportunity. I think sometimes those places are the strongest because people are really living for the weekend and living for a release. Whereas I kind of feel critical of the difference between say the Midwest United States and Europe where in Europe it seems more like a, “Let’s do drugs and let’s go crazy,” and it’s like, “You have health insurance that’s not fair.”

Whereas like... I don’t know. Even in Canada it’s probably different. I just feel like there is a different experience when you work all week and then you can go to a rave. I know that there are places in Europe where people don’t have money obviously, but that’s just kind of the sense that I feel where there’s something really powerful and genuine about the Midwest. I don’t know.

Johnny Hockin

Anymore questions?

Audience Member

Hi. Do you feel really connected, attached to a lot of the tracks you make so that you feel you have to put out almost everything you make, and if you don’t how do you choose the ones... What makes them good enough for you to feel like…

Umfang

I think sort of what I said about track selection within my DJ sets. It’s like I can’t really explain why but I just feel like I have an impulse where I’m like, “I like this track. It’s working for me and this one annoys me.” There’s something wrong with that and I don’t know if I want to deal with that. I think it’s just within a session, which ones feel complete or don’t need a lot of reworking to make sense. It’s like I’d rather just pull those than have a ton of things that I don’t resonate with as strongly.

Audience Member

Do you spend... What’s the longest amount of time you would spend on a track before you either give up on it or you’re like just... Yeah.

Umfang

I guess it’s hard to gage because I tend to do everything in like a set. It’s like I’ll record 10 songs and then I’ll wait a few days or a week or something and then I’ll go through all of them and listen to them, and then the ones I like I might write down and I’ll edit them so that they make sense and I take out the mistakes or something and then I’ll go through and... It’s kind of like more of a wider process, and then it’s like a few more days will pass and then maybe I’ll do EQing on all of them or a few of them. You see when things get to a point where they seem good.

Johnny Hockin

A couple more over here.

Audience Member

Hey. Can you demonstrate more about the relationship between music and the subject of techno music with politics? How is it that politic statement, and I’m not talking about the beginning and its creation. Right now, that techno music is changing forms.

Umfang

I guess I feel like in our society self-expression feels like a defiant act. I guess if you’re producing music then you’re kind of like resisting in a way the government. That’s how I kind of feel. I don’t know. Does that answer your question?

Audience Member

But why techno?

Umfang

Why techno? It doesn’t have to be techno. That’s just the form that I feel like I’m relating too. It doesn’t have to be techno. I think techno’s kind of like a problematic word because it’s kind of just reliving something that’s already happened. But that’s just like the easy answer of how to describe it. I don’t think I’m making techno. It just sort of is most easily classifiable that way. But yeah, does that help? I don’t know.

Audience Member

I want to know how is it that political statement? Does that work that way or is it working the other way around? There’s some political issues and it relate to some kind of expression, as we say for example techno or ambient and what other music.

Umfang

I don’t know. I guess I don’t know how to answer. I don’t know.

Audience Member

Did you get what I said?

Umfang

I’m not sure. I don’t know.

Audience Member

The way that it’s been talked, a lot of people talk about that techno music is kind of a political statement like you’re saying something, usually you’re against something or you’re making a statement, not exactly political. I’m saying how is it worked that way? Is it working that by music we’re saying something or there’s something to say and we cannot say it and we just express it in this type of music?

Umfang

I don’t know. I guess for me this is a way that I can express those feelings as a reaction to what’s going on, but I don’t know beyond that how to answer.

Audience Member

I didn’t know the answer also. That’s why I asked it.

Umfang

I guess it’s kind of a vague thing for me to say, but I guess I think that... Like the government doesn’t want you to listen to music or make music, so you should make music.

Audience Member

Thanks.

Audience Member

Hi. I walked in a few minutes late so I’m sorry if I’m repeating something that’s already been addressed. You mentioned the white washing of techno. I’d love to know a little bit more about in your travels at least around North America or western Europe what you’ve seen in response to that. How does that look on the ground? Those conversations, how are they playing out in real time? Are you seeing a change or is it just a lot of people talking?

Umfang

It’s hard to know I guess because I feel like I’m tapped into a network of people that are interested in that progress and having those conversations, and I think that bigger festivals in Europe are aware that they’re more accountable now for having a diverse line up and not just booking Europeans. I think there has been more Midwestern artists being booked in Europe and stuff like that. I’ve had a few conversations I feel like with young people of color saying, “It’s meaningful to me that you are saying that and I can identify with that.”

When you know the history and you can identify the history then that’s meaningful and it changes your path maybe, but it’s really hard to say just because that’s the world that I’m in and I’ve kind of rejected everything else at this point. I don’t know. Does that help?

Audience Member

Yeah, that’s fine. Thank you.

Johnny Hockin

Anyone else with a question? All right. Well, let’s give her a big thank you to Umfang [applause]