Francesco Tristano

Todd L. Burns

I was stressing out last night, brushing up on all my classical music knowledge. I wrote to you at 2:45 AM and said should we play some of this composer, who I looked up in Wikipedia, or that composer. Then I thought to myself, ”There’s so many versions of all these songs,” but then you wrote back within five minutes saying, “Yeah, we should play these people, but I could play them.” Why don’t we begin with you playing something on the Wurlitzer, something old school, so to speak, that maybe sounds a bit new in your mind?

Francesco Tristano

The Wurlitzer is missing a C3 and it’s out of tune, but I think it’s going to be okay.

Todd L. Burns

By the way, please welcome Francesco Tristano.

(applause)

(music: Francesco Tristano plays Orlando Gibbons / applause)

Todd L. Burns

Who was that?

Francesco Tristano

It was a piece by Orlando Gibbons, English composer, mid-17th century.

Todd L. Burns

He was before Bach?

Francesco Tristano

Definitely, about a century before Bach.

Todd L. Burns

What’s special about him in your mind? You have him on your bio, I think, or it’s mentioned on your website as being a particular influence on you.

Francesco Tristano

I love the harmonies. We tend to think of old music as being something different from new music, which it is by the standards of time, but by the standards of harmony and rhythm it’s not necessarily so. I think this sounds like Plaid more than it sounds like Bach, for the most part. It’s modal, it’s not following a tonal system, it’s following a modal system and Plaid are using modes as well.

It’s just that harmonic language that was always interesting to me from an early age on, I just always loved old music. The problem is there was no piano at the time. This wasn’t written for piano because there was no piano at the time. It was certainly not written for a Wurlitzer.

Todd L. Burns

You make quite a point about things not being written for the piano. One of your first albums, your first electronic, so to speak, albums, called Not For Piano; a lot of pieces not for piano. Seems like a very important idea of taking things and putting them in the context of a different instrument and seeing what can happen.

Francesco Tristano

Yes, it’s a very good point. The piano, this is a beautiful instrument. It’s huge, the design is so impressive and big, but the image we have of the piano is the image of 19th-century music, maybe some high-scale salon, Parisian style and maybe some wigs. I think that’s the wrong image.

When the piano appeared about 1750, a little before 1740, it was such a crazy instrument that most composers didn’t want to use it. “Too big, it’s too crazy, I can’t do anything.” Bach didn’t like it, he probably saw an early prototype that wasn’t very good and he was, “That’s not for me.”

I tend to like music that’s very old-time, before the piano even existed, and very contemporary music where the piano is no longer valid as an instrument, like techno, for example. So it’s this extreme repertoire of playing the very old stuff and then trying to do something new, but always with the idea that the piano is an instrument of the future, it’s always been.

It became in one century the most used instrument by composers. While Bach didn’t want to touch it, not interested, about a century later every hotshot composer was a pianist and was using the piano as the main source of expression.

Todd L. Burns

But obviously, now that all these hotshot composers have used it there’s a lot of baggage that’s been put upon the piano, especially within popular culture. When you come to it, you hear it as this romantic, quaint, wig-wearing salon thing.

I read an interview with you once where you said you see the piano as a percussion instrument and I think that’s a big break in terms of your thinking. I wonder at what point you had that epiphany, that the piano is not this romantic quaint thing; we can do all sorts of things. Was it very early on? Was it an immediate thing?

Francesco Tristano

I wanted to be a drummer, but I happened to have a piano at home, which was probably a strategic move by my mom. But I wanted to play the drums, so I suppose my first steps at the piano were trying to imitate the drums, sort of playing clusters in the low register. There are pictures of me walking with my feet on the keyboard. Eventually, I got a drum set and as soon as I was done with the practising I went to the basement and played the drums for the whole afternoon.

Todd L. Burns

Your mum made you put it in the basement?

Francesco Tristano

Yeah. She didn’t get the drum set for me, though; it was my uncle.

Todd L. Burns

The cool uncle.

Francesco Tristano

Yes. But the piano is definitely a percussion instrument by the mechanics of the instrument. This is the same mechanics actually (points to Wurlitzer), but we don’t see it. When you press the key there’s a whole mechanism where, in the end, a whole bunch of back and forth, there’s a hammer hitting on a string. We cannot really control that, it’s like the attack and the decay of the piano is not changeable, it’s always going to be the same.

There are a few keyboard instruments which emulate vibrato playing, sort of like the clavichord, which I believe was Bach’s favourite keyboard instrument, where you have an after touch. Like a nice synthesizer, you can press the key and whatever you do with the finger, later you can hear it. The piano doesn’t react so it’s kind of a stupid instrument in terms of attack, because it’s percussion based.

But the cool thing about the piano is you can create the illusion of many instruments. You can create the illusion of a string instrument, you can create the illusion of a wind instrument, and of course, you have the very instrumental keyboard sound, which you can bring out.

This leads me to believe that, in fact it’s a synthesizer, you know? I was studying classical music, I suppose, but in a non-classical city – New York is classic, but it’s not necessarily classical – and I realized this could be some kind of synthesizer. Especially, when I started going inside the piano and fiddling around with the overtones, which is basically the resonance of a filter. Depending on how much you press the string, you have an effect, which is like cut-off. Then you have the pedal, which is like the release or the sustain. So it really is some sort of ancestral synthesizer.

Todd L. Burns

Even though you said you haven’t had a normal classical upbringing to an outsider’s view, you went to Juilliard, you did all the practising, you have all these classical CDs out. Were your parents the typical taskmasters, you’re practicing two, three, four hours a day when you were growing up? Were they cracking the whip, so to speak, or was it something you immediately took to?

Francesco Tristano

I wasn’t forced to do anything, I just enjoyed it very much. It took me a while to realize I wanted to do that, but around 12 or 13 I knew I was going to use the piano in some way, I wasn’t sure exactly how.

I guess what confused my mother is that I always wanted to do something else. I was studying classical music but in my free hours I was improvising jazz and just trying to digest the real book, the chord changes and the choruses and stuff. And then I went to New York and I got into electronic music and I was, “That’s what I want to do now. That’s what I want to explore and try to understand.”

By then jazz had already faded, I had a few jazz projects going but I dropped these and then I got into turntables and mixing boards and gear. I really dipped into it, but always with the idea of combining it with the piano sound because I thought the piano sound could still be evolving.

That’s something else about the very basic design of the piano – it’s a design that’s been evolving for 200 years. We think it’s always been the same for 200 years, but it’s not. In fact, I was in Japan this summer with Yamaha and I went out to see a Yamaha factory. The technology used to fabricate a piano is just unbelievable. There’s new models, new prototypes, coming out every year, new technology, new mechanical instruments, new pedals; it’s a constant evolution.

Todd L. Burns

I remember you saying when you were recording your last album in Detroit that you found a piano you liked very much and you had to wait many months for it to become available for you to record the album. So every piano, like every guitar, every whatever, sounds a little bit different.

Francesco Tristano

A lot different, I think. The thing is it’s so big we can’t travel with our instruments; only a very lucky few can do that. It’s half a ton, to put that on a plane is complicated. In Detroit there was one instrument I thought could be great for my album. Then I had to wait a year until it was available, or until I was available at the same time as the piano.

We brought it into Carl [Craig]’s studio and Planet E became the piano auditorium for a week. I was so happy that I could get that piano, that was basically the foremost inspiration for the album, the sound of that piano.

Todd L. Burns

How was it different to other pianos that you saw in Detroit? What was it?

Francesco Tristano

I can become very geeky about pianos.

Todd L. Burns

Let’s do it.

Francesco Tristano

OK. Fundamentally, Steinway is an important brand. It has two factories – one in Hamburg, one in New York – and the markets are strictly divided so you won’t find a Hamburg Steinway in the US. Maybe a few, but it’s not current. The New York Steinway has a different design, you can recognize it. It’s edgier by the keyboard, the Hamburg is rounded off. It’s different in the bass register. I find the New York Steinways to be much more slamming in the bass and for my music it’s what I need. Like I said, a percussion instrument, I need the bass register to be...

Todd L. Burns

If you’re going to record at Planet E you’re going to need that.

Francesco Tristano

Definitely because you have to fight against all the instruments in the studio, all the synthesizers, all the effects boxes. A good piano, you know right away. You play one chord and you’re like yeah or no. Sometimes you’re stuck with a bad piano and you have to go with it, but not if you’re going to record your album.

Todd L. Burns

Why were you in New York? How did you get there? For the first time, when you were talking about discovering techno earlier.

Francesco Tristano

I visited New York when I was a teenager, I was staying at a friend’s apartment with my mom on the Upper West side. We were walking around, I was playing piano, concertos at the time, and we walked by the Juilliard School and I said, “This could be a cool place to hang out and study.” Three years later I was accepted.

The term conservatory, you want to conserve something, I suppose, conserve tradition, the luggage, you called it. There are also the times after the conservatory, which is New York City. I did my studies decently, practiced a lot, but then there was always the other part...

Todd L. Burns

You were a good student?

Francesco Tristano

Yes, I was, I suppose I was. But for me, the main thing about being in a conservatory is to try to be exactly the opposite of a conservative person. In that sense Juilliard is great. Basically, there is one exam to get in and one exam to get out. Once you’re in you do what you want. There’s a great music lab, for example.

Todd L. Burns

It seems interesting that there’s one exam to get in, one exam to get out, but it’s still so conservative. You can do whatever you want, but everyone’s not really taking advantage, would you say?

Francesco Tristano

Everybody is a relative term. I found some great people at Juilliard, I met my piano partner Rami Khalifé. We teamed up for the project Aufgang and he’s kind of my alter ego, we connect on many levels.

We basically spend our afternoons improvising. Once we’re done with the classes, we were listening to a lot of techno at the time and then we’d just go into a practice room and improvise for hours, but constant BPM sort of thing. Some people walk by and go, “What’s happening here?” - and walk out again.

It doesn’t matter how conservative people are, it really doesn’t matter, because you’ll find conservative people anywhere, you’ll find them in jazz, you’ll find them in electronic music, you’ll find them in classical music. For me, it was about trying to take in everything that New York City had to give, not just in electronic music – in fact, electronic music is kind of limited right now in New York City. Maybe it was a little better 10 years ago.

Todd L. Burns

When did you arrive?

Francesco Tristano

’98 to 2003 were my years.

Todd L. Burns

So right around the time that Giuliani was coming in, which was the tail end of a really powerful moment in club culture in New York.

Francesco Tristano

A sad moment, I suppose, in club culture because many bars and clubs had their license revoked. So you couldn’t dance even though there was a DJ. I remember in the East Village, a few nights out, pumping music, great vibes, then you start moving and it’s, “No, no, you can’t dance. You can’t dance.” So that was interesting that you put such a censorship on people, but also giving them the music.

Todd L. Burns

But there were places you could dance. Where were the places that meant the most to you?

Francesco Tristano

A place called Vinyl, Danny Tenaglia, BeYourself. We never met, but I learned so much from his sets, that would go for ten, 12 hours. Vinyl didn’t have an alcohol licence, there was no alcohol, which as a European in New York seemed completely extravagant. I probably was underage anyway.

But it was about listening to the sets and then trying to figure out what tunes they were. I realized Detroit techno was very prominent, trying to get the CDs, the LPs. I wasn’t a student at Red Bull Music Academy, I didn’t know how to do it so I had to do it on my own.

Todd L. Burns

Danny Tenaglia around that time was probably one of your best teachers. Ten, 12-hour sets, he’d be one of your best teachers because he had the time to play just about anything throughout the set. Disco, house, techno, all over the place. I imagine it was hard to figure some of it out. Were there people you were going out with, or were you going up to the DJ booth to ask him? What was the process? You said you didn’t have a Red Bull Music Academy.

Francesco Tristano

I wish I did, I wish I was a student here, guys. Really. Sometimes I’d go out with Rami or with some friends, sometimes I’d go out and just listen, not even dance, just listen, try to understand the grooves. Listen in a new way, because the way I think of music – and I still fight against this, in a good sense, not a bad sense – I still separate the elements of harmony, rhythm, melody, bass – basically layers of musical elements, whereas in electronic music this is all very relative. It’s about sounds more than the notes, I guess.

Todd L. Burns

Is that some of what was immediately appealing to you? That you kind of couldn’t tell, it was all jumbled together what was melody and what was the harmony, it switched.

Francesco Tristano

Definitely, because in a good techno track you can have harmony, which basically functions as a rhythmic impulse thing, and it doesn’t matter what harmony it is. I hear it and it could be something else and it still fulfills its purpose, which is to give a rhythmic pulse to the track.

I was always attracted to things that were on the opposite end of my spectrum. So I had to get my way into it. But then, of course, people like John Cage already predicted this in the ‘30s, that music would no longer be notes and layers of bass and harmony and melody, but it would be just sounds. Composers would be sound artists, he called them. This was from a lecture in 1938. John Cage was probably about 50 years ahead in the way we try to approach music.

Todd L. Burns

Why don’t we play a track, one of your renditions of an electronic track? Three points to anyone who recognizes this. This is off Not For Piano.

(music: Francesco Tristano – “Andover” / applause)

That was Autechre, “Andover.” Tell me some of the other things you chose to rearrange, replay. I guess the first question would be what would you say that you did? Cover?

Francesco Tristano

You said rendition. Extraordinary rendition (laughs).

Todd L. Burns

Most of them were Detroit techno tracks and that one was not.

Francesco Tristano

But not unrelated. I chose these classics...

Todd L. Burns

Jeff Mills, “The Bells”, Derrick May, “Strings Of Life.”

Francesco Tristano

It was basically to indicate what the album could be about. It was a piano album, after all. It was the first time I published my pieces, but by including a few techno classics and one IDM classic, I suppose, I just wanted to hint at the direction of where the album is targeted. I wasn’t trying to do a recollection of classics, I just included these pieces to say this is about electronic music, even though I’m playing the piano. If you put “The Bells” on then there’s no doubt about it in a way.

I did a few versions of Carl Craig’s music. I played “Technology” a lot; I played “Technology” at Carnegie Hall, which was nice because I think that was the first time Carl’s music was performed at Carnegie Hall. In the same program I played Frescobaldi, which I played yesterday night, a piece from 1607, and that was also the first time it was performed at Carnegie Hall.

So you see how sometimes the extremes meet up in very concrete situations like that. How institutions target the programming for just one repertoire and leave the extremes out completely.

Todd L. Burns

How did you get to the point in your classical career – you had a number of things out on various classical labels, I saw – where you just say, “I’m just going to add “The Bells” tonight”?

Francesco Tristano

As pure provocation, perhaps.

Todd L. Burns

And who’s letting you do that, as well? You set the agenda and say, “I’m going to play Frescobaldi,” and then the last minute you improvise and play “The Bells.”

Francesco Tristano

Usually, I do it the other way around. My teacher said, “Tell your best jokes first.” I think my best jokes are my own stuff or the more electronically driven stuff, so I start with that and then finish with Frescobaldi. I think that’s a really nice way to discover old music in a new context. Like I didyesterday, the Frescobaldi sort of came out of my piece, “Hello.”

There’s nobody who monitors this, nobody tells me what to do. The stage is a place of freedom and I like it to be complete artistic freedom. It’s not a place to be afraid of – quite the contrary, it’s a space to go as far out as you can.

The problem is with promoters, sometimes classical promoters have very strict ideas of what they want and sometimes you have to negotiate. You meet them halfway but you also want to do your own stuff. But I always have great experiences with classical audiences hearing, for example, “Strings Of Life” or Carl Craig’s “Technology,” I think the audience can never be underestimated.

I’m not sure about promoters, but you can’t put a listing of what audience is best. Sometimes I’m so surprised by elderly people who come up to me after the show and say, “What was this piece where you play inside the piano?” “Strings Of Life.” “Does the composer know you played inside the piano?” “The composer probably doesn’t even know I played this piece.” She was very shocked by that, the lady. She said, “How does it work, how do you get the score?” “There’s no score.” “Well, how do you do it?” “I listen and I try to do a version.”

I like the term ‘version’ very much, more than ‘rendition,’ maybe. Everything is a version, even the original “Strings Of Life” is just a version. There are several original versions, then there is Derrick May’s original idea, which we cannot capture because it isn’t captured in sound, it’s not captured on a score. So the original “Strings Of Life” is a version, and it goes in circles, a version of a version of a version.

I think that’s exactly what the old composers like Bach and Vivaldi and Frescobaldi did. They were great remixers of their times. Bach was a great remixer, he heard a theme he liked by some Italian composers, picked it up and used it in his own music, didn’t even credit the original composer and just said, “This is my concerto.” And it’s basically a remix. That’s one more analogy between the Baroque age and our times, which is definitely the age of the remix.

Todd L. Burns

Was “Strings Of Life” the first one that you decided to do on the piano?

Francesco Tristano

I suppose so.

Todd L. Burns

What was it about that track that said to you, “I can do this” or “I have a way in, this is the one”?

Francesco Tristano

For one thing I’m sorry I missed the whole techno thing that was happening late ‘80s, early ‘90s, I was too young. I got into it early 2000s, which was OK, but the classics had already gone – not gone, but they’d passed. So when I heard “Strings Of Life,” I remembered it but I didn’t know from where. ‘I know this tune, but what is it?’ I don’t know how I discovered the title even.

I think I went to one of Carl’s DJ sets and he played it, the melody was stuck in my mind. Then I did some research and I remember I found this internet site with cellphone rings and one of them was “Strings Of Life.” “Oh, so this is it, ‘Strings Of Life.’”

Todd L. Burns

Did you use it as your ringtone?

Francesco Tristano

No, I didn’t, I never downloaded a ringtone from any site. But I liked the harmonies of that piece. When the harmonies are appealing I want to do something with it. It’s the same with the Gibbons.

Todd L. Burns

You’re a harmony guy.

Francesco Tristano

(laughs) I’m a harmony guy. No, I guess I’m more of a percussive guy, actually. When the harmony is surprising and the second chord of “Strings Of Life” is really surprising. I don’t know if this is still on.

(plays “Strings Of Life” on Wurlitzer)

The transformation between the two chords is a world apart but in a very short time span, and I suppose that’s what made me want to use it.

Todd L. Burns

I don’t know Derrick’s background as well as I should, but it seems like the chord change of a non-composer would make. “Oh this sounds kind of nice.” And someone who’s classically trained would never think to make that connection, perhaps.

Francesco Tristano

Maybe.

Todd L. Burns

When you played “Strings Of Life” did you immediately go into the piano at the end? Or was that something that came about over time when you felt like you had a handle on the piece?

Francesco Tristano

I did play inside the piano already before I did “Strings Of Life,” it just seemed like a cool ending to the version. Unfortunately, for the vinyl release we ran out of room so we had to cut this part. So I suppose, when I play live now it’s my revenge, I make that part especially long because I just love to play.

I had so much gear in the piano yesterday I couldn’t really reach into the piano the way I’m used to. When it’s clear you have such a range of sounds, all the metal and the wood, I wasn’t even getting there because I had the computer and all the MIDI controllers. But it’s not on the vinyl, that part is not on the original release.

Todd L. Burns

The label you release for, Infiné, it’s a French label and it seems like one of few labels in the electronic world that would be open to something like this. How did you get hooked up with them? Who was the person you talked to at the label, what was the driving force behind you going down this road?

Francesco Tristano

It was one show in Paris, I think 2005, a show where I played a mixed program with some very old music, some Bach. I think I finished the program with “Strings Of Life” and after the show this guy, Alexandre Cazac, came up to me and he said, “Your “Strings Of Life” is great. I’ve been wanting to set up a label for some time and now is the time to do it.” So he introduced me to his team, to Agoria, and I recorded the first version of “Strings Of Life” pretty soon after that. Then the version on my album was recorded a bit later, better piano, better settings in general.

Todd L. Burns

On the “Andover” thing we listened to you can hear some electronic stuff going on in the background, all over the album in places. When did that come into play, when did you start playing with software or other instruments, to bring that into the fold?

Francesco Tristano

A while ago I was always trying to expand the sound of the piano with keyboards. I loved people like Joe Zawinul, for example, watching these videos from the ‘70s...

Todd L. Burns

He’s the keyboardist with Weather Report.

Francesco Tristano

Yes, but he was actually a classical keyboardist, then he was a bebop pianist with Cannonball Adderley and then he met Miles and then he went his way. But he never played with less than six keyboards or synthesizers and then there were these pieces of furniture behind him, basically like furniture of sound. A synthesizer in ‘72 was not just a keyboard: you had to bring the rack and the rack was two meters high or something and I thought that was fascinating, how you can switch sounds so easily and try to build your own language with the way you combine the different sounds.

At Juilliard there was a great music lab with some amazing old gear. I completely fell in love with the Yamaha DX7, which is very basic, version 1, and I started using that to make my own tracks while I was a student. The idea to go beyond the piano... but it’s composition, production, the same thing, whether you sit down at a table and write the music on paper or you’re at the computer and you program it, I think there’s no difference.

The difference is for me when I try to arrange it to perform it live and still play the piano in an attractive way for me, not just loop stuff. I love to play loops, I have no issue playing the same thing over and over, as you might have noticed yesterday. But if you loop something real time, which is you play the same thing over and over, it’s so alive, much more than if I just press record, then play and loop it.

So on Not For Piano there’s a whole bunch of piano loops, but they’re all played out. The Autechre tune was edited down to about six minutes, but it could be I play it for 20 minutes. Basically always the same thing, then look for the good parts and cut them, edit it together.

Todd L. Burns

It must be hard to play loops over and over, but you say you find that quite easy.

Francesco Tristano

It’s not about easy or hard, it’s just me, I love to play loops, I have no issue with it. Some people in Aufgang, for example, my band, Rami is like, “You play the loops, I’ll play the free stuff.” I have no issue with playing the same bassline. That’s the thing, if you program something you can record a one-bar thing and then loop it and it’s going to be static, or you can actually record, even MIDI, you can record the bassline, but record the whole track, record it live, and if it’s a six-minute track you’ll play for six minutes. That’s how I do most of my tracks, I play as much live as I can, I loop as little as I can, rhythmic programming is a different thing because you also need the quantize to be right.

But basslines are so much groovier when they’re off, I think. They’re so much more appealing when they’re not always falling on the same spot within the bar. If they move a little bit – we’re not machines, I think we’re not machines yet - but when I play the bassline, even though it’s the same thing, it’s going to move in time. I think it can only be beneficial for the track to do longer loops or to play them out live.

Todd L. Burns

Let’s play a track from Aufgang. You mentioned them a couple of times already. “Channel 7”?

Francesco Tristano

How about “Sonar”?

(music: Aufgang – “Sonar”)

Todd L. Burns

...all fine record stores. That was “Sonar.”

(applause)

That’s where Aufgang first played, correct?

Francesco Tristano

Correct.

Todd L. Burns

So that was based off the memory of the first performance?

Francesco Tristano

We actually wrote it for the first performance, one of our first pieces, 2005.

Todd L. Burns

Tell me about the freedom of having a drummer finally.

Francesco Tristano

It’s great. The first version of Aufgang we didn’t have a drum set – it was two pianos and electronics and that was it. After a year, Aymeric, the guy who was doing most of the programming, was, “Guys, I want to use the drums.” He’s a great drummer, he’s played with Cassius, a whole bunch of rap artists in France and Phoenix, he’s also the drummer for Phoenix.

As soon as we used the drum set... the first date was in Holland about four years ago, the energy was doubled onstage. It’s really the drums that hold the thing together because we play without a click always, we just don’t like playing with a click. But we do have live MIDI stuff going on onstage, so Aymeric, the drummer, he’s on click, so we just follow him and he’s holding it together. So it’s really just freedom to have a drum set onstage, it really is.

Todd L. Burns

How did this start? You obviously wanted to do a project with Rami, you’re friends from school, but what was the guiding principle behind the whole thing?

Francesco Tristano

I guess it took us a while to figure that out. The first album came together after three or four years of playing together, composing, trying to find our sound. Then we added the drums and it was a whole different thing after a while.

Todd L. Burns

I guess that was the moment when you realized “we have something really.”

Francesco Tristano

Yeah, but the compositions, the tunes, we were trying to make them so we would be free. It was a live project first of all, the album took a while to come together. The drum was one large leap in our sound, but most of the work we do behind doors at the computer.

We send each other files, Aymeric sends new basslines, Rami and I compose the piano stuff on top. Then we record and send it back and maybe get together. It’s complicated because we live in three different countries so we don’t see each other so often, so it’s always a very intense way of working.

Now we have a space in Paris where we meet occasionally and we just recorded our second album, so we’re working on that. I think it’s different in the sense that this is really produced. The piano is played live, the drums are played live, but all the rest is pretty much laid out in the studio and, you know MIDI.

I think the new album will be much more of a live feel. You’ll hear a few moments where it sounds more rocky, but that could be the sound of the drums in general. As soon as a drummer gets out of himself... because Aymeric, he’s like a machine, but he can also be like a rock drummer.

Todd L. Burns

Do you have to tell him to settle down sometimes?

Francesco Tristano

Yeah, we do.

Todd L. Burns

Is it hard being in a band for you, coming from this classical background? How do you negotiate that?

Francesco Tristano

It’s a relief, a relief. When we’re together there’s this vibe that anything could happen and we’re invincible. Whereas when you’re alone on tour, you always have different projects, but you’re alone, travelling alone, preparing alone, concentrating alone. To prepare with your brothers is a relief. We have a good vibe. We had a small tour about a month ago and nothing could go wrong.

Todd L. Burns

You do a lot of collaboration anyway. You’ve worked with Carl Craig, you’ve worked with Moritz von Oswald, sometimes together. Let’s talk about Carl first. You went to see him DJ and met him afterwards, you said hello. I think Infiné had introduced you two. Correct?

Francesco Tristano

Yes, Alexandre, a year after we unofficially met in a club in Holland.

Todd L. Burns

What do you think was in Alex’s mind? because the story goes he said, “I think you two need to talk for a while.” What do you think he thought was going to happen?

Francesco Tristano

For once, Carl remembered me because we went up with Rami. He said, “You’re the guys who came up to me after the gig.” I said, “Yeah.” Alex didn’t have a precise goal, but he knew I was listening to a lot of Carl’s music. By the time I met him I knew all of his stuff by heart, and when I say by heart I mean I could play all his stuff.

So I was really into his music and I guess about six months later I went to Detroit for the first time and we worked on the “Melody” remix, that was the first collaboration. The original piano takes from the melody were taken in a classical way, so not necessarily closed micing but more ambient micing, and Carl is like, “I can’t use those takes for my remix. You better come to Detroit and we’ll do this again.”

I went to Detroit and I re-recorded some piano parts, some bass parts. Then he made the two remixes and that was the first thing we started working on together, Innerzone [Orchestra]. Then one thing big thing was with an orchestra, which was called “Versus.” It has evolved since.

Todd L. Burns

I think the video’s still online of this performance in Paris where he’s on electronics and you’re playing piano and there’s this enormous orchestra playing stuff. Must have been pretty special.

Francesco Tristano

It was a lot of work. I spent about two months arranging stuff for the orchestra; then we got a conductor, so he was on the project for a while. Then we had one week of rehearsals and it all came together, the day of the show, really. For an orchestra to work with electronic musicians is not easy.

Also there’s a whole bunch of technical things you need to coordinate, like the sound. We play amplified, we play with onstage monitors, some had click tracks, I had click tracks for this. And the conductor had a click track, but he was dancing by the end of the show, he was onstage, he didn’t look like he was conducting, he was just having a great time. It was a great experience and to be repeated, definitely.

We’ve evolved the project into other versions. In Germany this year we played a couple of shows where I conduct the orchestra and we play much more freely now. It’s kind of a DJ set between Carl, Moritz and I and at times the orchestra comes in and then goes out again, a continuous mix of music.

Todd L. Burns

What’s the most surprising thing about Carl, having worked with him?

Francesco Tristano

Surprising? I don’t know. He’s a great personality in that he doesn’t think small, he doesn’t think techno necessarily. There’s some comparison to be drawn with Miles Davis, who definitely didn’t just think jazz; he went beyond that. It’s the kind of personality that’s so important for his or her own art, but also for the artist around them who’s not doing the same thing.

There’s only a few people who can do that. It’s complicated to make it happen. First of all, if you start working with classical musicians you have to adapt your language. You can’t talk about groove – they have no idea what groove means. You can’t talk about the feel of things, it doesn’t make sense. It’s all written out, it’s all notes on paper.

Todd L. Burns

So were you his translator? Or does he have that language now, can he speak in those terms?

Francesco Tristano

We all learned a lot in the process, but I was definitely some kind of mediator between those two worlds. And the conductor did a great job of making it happen with the orchestra. But it’s basically getting to know each other. Orchestra musicians are yet another special breed of classical musicians and sometimes it’s really hard to make it happen.

Also, I love to play loops and orchestras hate playing loops. When they have one bar written and it says 268 times, they get kind of upset. After 100 bars they’re off by about a beat, so I’ll stop the thing and say, “You’re off by a beat.” “Yeah, but I’ve already played it 100 times.” “Yeah, you have 168 more to go.” (laughs)

Todd L. Burns

Moritz von Oswald has done some ‘not production,’ those other words he used to describe what he’s done on some of the records. Was it the bachCage one where he was credited as enchanting?

Francesco Tristano

That was Auricle.

Todd L. Burns

What does that mean?

Francesco Tristano

It’s a mystery, a secret. No, Moritz and I worked on a record a couple of times, one was Auricle. The last is bachCage, which he produced full on, no mystery about that. But Auricle / Bio / On came very spontaneously. I had a whole bunch of piano samples, there’s no live piano on this record. It’s kind of a direct antagonist to Not For Piano, which is a piano record where I play live. Auricle was the other end, there’s no live piano, only samples, I did the mix inside the box.

I basically had a stereo file, which sounded okay but I’m no sound engineer and I’m definitely no mastering engineer and I counted on Moritz to make it sound good, and I think he did.

So it was definitely more than a mastering job because a mastering job basically means EQing and maybe a little bit of compressing and that’s it. But he managed to feature some parts of the original and process them again, isolating several frequencies so the whole track becomes... he made kind of a 3D version of a 2D track.

For bachCage he was very present from the beginning on. It was a project where I played some music from Bach and Cage and a few pieces of mine, very short. One of them we had the pleasure of playing yesterday with the students onstage. With Moritz, we set up the mics, we processed the music together. You can definitely hear the Moritz von Oswald touch on bachCage, more than on Auricle because he had more freedom.

Todd L. Burns

Can we play something from the bachCage where we can hear Moritz?

Francesco Tristano

How about this one (looks through laptop, music starts and stops)?

(music: Francesco Tristano – “In A Landscape” / applause)

This is a piece from 1948 by John Cage called “In A Landscape” and basically what we did is we had about 20 mics on the piano, of which we used just over half. Maybe some were just regular in the mix the way they were recorded and the other five mics went into a whole sidechain of processing boxes, the heavy ring modulator, Moritz von Oswald delay and, of course, reverb and phaser. And it’s all basically live in post-production.

So I recorded the take live and Moritz’s processing was done as a second layer. This for me is an important record because it’s the first time I was not afraid to use these processing tools for classical production. John Cage is not necessarily a classical composer, but the label is a classical label.

Todd L. Burns

It came out on Deutsche Grammophon, which I think is important to note.

Francesco Tristano

Also, if you go to a record store John Cage will be in the classical section. It’s not the current thing to do to use ring modulators when you record a classical piano album, but that’s exactly what I did for the previous album, which was my music, Idiosynkrasi.

Most of the pieces I played yesterday are on my second album, I guess my third album. But now there’s no return, I think I told you this before. For me, there’s no difference now if I play classical music. When I say classical, it’s really in quotes.

I don’t even know what it means. I think we use it in an anachronistic way because the word classical itself is fairly recent. It’s about 150 years old and it was used to describe the music before that. Now, 150 years later, we call music from even 50 years ago classical. So classical is really the same as contemporary in a way.

But, now for me there’s no difference; if I play music by a composer from another time or play my own music, the sound of the piano will always be processed. Not always, but mostly, because I think it’s one way to evolve the sound of the piano into something else, in relationship to my own time. In rock productions, in techno productions, you use all these machines, but in classics or jazz you don’t. But there’s no reason not to.

Todd L. Burns

Why did it take you so long to get there with the classical stuff? Or was it that the classical industry also had to get there to allow you to do something like this for Deutsche Grammophon? You say this record is a breakthrough for you, in a way, you felt like you passed through some place.

Francesco Tristano

Like I say, my whole electronic education came after my classical education. I guess I didn’t know how to combine the two, but now I do. In fact, there’s no difference whether I play a piece by Bach or my own music. Why it took me so long, I think it’s just a natural organic process of trying to integrate all the things I learned and trying to define my sound.

As a pianist you spend a lot of time working on your sound analogically, it’s in your fingertips, it’s in the weight of the elbow and the arm and the back, it’s all important parts of how the piano is going to sound. But then the mics, they pick up something completely different and when you send the mics into a processing box you get something totally different but you get something personal.

I suppose it’s about finding a sound that describes me best. I have no interest in playing the so-called role-playing game of classical music, where you interpret something from the past in an old way. If I do it I have to do it in a new way and using technology definitely helps me in that direction.

Todd L. Burns

It must also have been a big deal from the other side to have Moritz doing a classical record. Did it take some convincing at the record label? “I’m bringing my own guy in, just trust me.”

Francesco Tristano

No, no.

Todd L. Burns

He’d already done the record, I guess, with Carl.

Francesco Tristano

Yeah, he’d composed. He was in it from the start, we wanted to do this together and Auricle though is not entirely the same thing, it’s sort of a remix project, it’s not necessarily a classical playlist. But Moritz was totally excited to do it because I guess it’s some kind of challenge for a techno or dub producer to produce music by Bach.

I love these completely crazy ideas and Moritz, I wanted to go further than him. He said, “Maybe I’ll do something very light.” I said, “Moritz we want more of this ring modulator, turn it up, turn it up,” just to give it that special flavor. I was very happy to play with you guys yesterday. The piece we did was a very short excerpt – I say excerpt because it was cut down on the original record to one and a half minutes. There is a remix by Lawrence. I don’t know if you want to listen to it real quick.

Todd L. Burns

Sure.

Francesco Tristano

This is also on Deutsche Grammophon.

(music: Francesco Tristano – “Tristano Introit (Lawrence remix)“)

Todd L. Burns

So that was Lawrence.

(applause)

For anyone that was there last night, they can immediately recognize the little melodic riff there. I find it interesting that Lawrence, given the chance to do a mix of a John Cage piece or a Bach piece, he chose you. Not that you aren’t fascinating in your own right.

Francesco Tristano

Yeah, I was happy that he chose to do “Introit.” I think of all my pieces as some kind of work in progress. As I said before, every original piece is already a version of some previous idea that we cannot fully grasp because it’s in the head of the composer or the producer.

Obviously, when you do a record there’s a lot of effort that goes into editing and mastering. Already the piece is going to sound different, a different shape, different structure. But then the remixing by other people is one more version, it’s a collaboration but it’s another version. I think what we did last night was a version, probably my favourite version so far. I think we could’ve rolled another half an hour or so. I’m still working on this piece, just as I’m still working on “Hello,” the first piece I played last night.

The composition is about five or six years old, but I keep trying to make it evolve and go other places. One way to do it is with adding programming and sequencing and the other way is to get other people to remix it.

Todd L. Burns

So how do you know when a track on Idiosynkrasia, say, is done?

Francesco Tristano

They’re not. That’s the thing. We think when we bring out an album...

Todd L. Burns

They are. (laughs)

Francesco Tristano

They’re not, those are versions. Those are the versions known as Idiosynkrasia.

Todd L. Burns

So you just set a deadline that someone gave you. “OK, that’s the version I can finish.”

Francesco Tristano

I guess. But really, I want to make a point of this: it’s not when you bring out a record that the music is done. That’s only the beginning of the music, the beginning of the life of the music. Once you put out the record you understand a few things you didn’t understand while you were in the process of making the music.

It would be too bad to sit back and say, “Hey that music’s done. If someone wants to remix, that’s cool, but I’m not going to touch it again.” I think it’s just the beginning. When you bring out a record, we think that’s the end. The media say it’s a good record or it’s a bad record, it’s better than the last one or not as good as the last one.

But actually, it’s just one long process and each record is going to be related to the previous one and a hint towards the next one. It’s basically just one long work in progress. It’s definitely not definitive versions.

Todd L. Burns

It’s related to one of the things you said when I interviewed you about six months ago, that all great composers find their own language, define their own language. I wonder if you feel like you’re getting there, that you’re finding your own language? Or is it just a work in progress?

Francesco Tristano

It’s not up to me to determine whether I’ve found my language or not, but I started this thing about 10 years ago, trying to combine the sound of the piano with the sound of electronic music. Because I love both: I love the sound of the piano and I love techno.

I was under the impression that there’s still a lot to do and I still have this impression. If you can find some idiosyncratic things about my music then I suppose that’s a good thing, but I’m not done.

Now I explore the same idea but in a more classical repertoire. The next project could be completely different, more towards the future than the past, but the aesthetic is still going to be the same. It’s kind of like a sound research thing where you get ideas, you try to develop them, you bring out records and they help you put a milestone in your own progress, your own development.

But in no way are they to be taken as the last word. So I’m always a little surprised when the press say an album is a new thing and it’s finished. I don’t think that way. Each album is one step in whatever you’re doing in music.

Todd L. Burns

Bach and Cage seem unlikely bedfellows. In your mind, what was the connection and why did you want to put them next to each other on an album?

Francesco Tristano

For one, it was my conviction that old music doesn’t have to be shielded from contemporary music. In fact, contemporary musics, plural, because there’s a lot of stuff. I like to put a juxtaposition of old and new but in a continuous way. In fact, bachCage is like a DJ set with music by Cage and Bach.

The first statement is that old music is actually a part of our language, we’re going to hear it in 2011 the same way as we’re going to hear the latest techno production.

Then Cage and Bach definitely connect on certain levels. They’re both minimalists, definitely. Bach was one of the first great minimalists. There’s something very, very similar in the way they write their scores; they’re very basic scores, no indications, just the music and a title, maybe a word or two. Bach doesn’t even write the word, just a title and the music – that’s it.

They connect on a rhythmic level, they use very definite rhythmic forms, rhythmic patterns. Bach’s music, especially his instrumental music, is all based on dance, baroque forms of dance that now seem completely out, like the sarabande. Would you like to dance a sarabande with me? I have no idea how to dance the sarabande.

But I suppose 300 years ago people did know what a sarabande is, just as we know what a house track is or dubstep or whatever dance you want to call it.

John Cage uses these patterns and he’s very strict so the piece we listened to, “In A Landscape,” sounds like this dreamy thing, sort of ambient stuff, but actually the rhythmic structure is completely defined. I don’t remember exactly but it’s completely separated in several sections where the total amount of beats is the sum of the previous section. It’s kind of a crazy organization of rhythm but it’s definitely comparable to Bach.

Last but not least, both are very spiritual in the sense that they are abstract, and kind of universal. When I listen to music by Bach or by Cage I don’t need any other information and it transports me somewhere. I don’t know where, but it’s a kind of feeling that I get, that they had a really high understanding of humans.

I don’t want to philosophize too much about this, but Bach/Cage, four letters, also the same first name, Johann Sebastian Bach and John Cage. So a few analogies.

Todd L. Burns

Before we open it up to questions, I want to ask you, you recently played at Space, Ibiza with Carl. Was it the first time you’ve played in a club environment like that with the grand piano?

Francesco Tristano

No, we already did Space with Carl the previous season, so it was a repeat. I do play in clubs a lot, but it’s rare to have a grand piano. In fact, I also did the closing party with Luciano at Pacha Vagabundos and we didn’t have a piano, it was too complicated the stage was too small. I suppose Space is easier.

Todd L. Burns

It has a very big stage.

Francesco Tristano

It has a good stage and there’s space besides the DJ booth. Pacha is more complicated because Luciano is over there (points) in the DJ booth and it’s more crowded. I was about 20-25 meters on the opposite side and we barely saw each other, but it was all trying to connect in the music.

I love playing in clubs. What I did yesterday is kind of a hybrid thing. Usually, what I do is either I play a piano recital in a seated hall, could be amplified, could have electronics, but it’s not necessarily beat-y or dance-y; or I do a techno live set for dancefloor in clubs with keyboards.

I usually have two or three keyboards plus my little machines and my computer. So yesterday was a bit of a hybrid because it was kind of a concert, but I was also playing more beats than I usually do in a concert hall, because the soundsystem in concert halls is mostly not adapted for ‘subby’ music, so you have to go easy on the speakers.

Todd L. Burns

Is there an ideal place? I saw people sitting down and moving in their chairs, they’re not quite comfortable, and people standing up were maybe wanting to sit down. Is there a place you feel is the ideal format to hear what you do?

Francesco Tristano

To me, they complement each other very well and it’s vital for me to switch and play in different environments. I think every hall is ideal as long as you try to get it all out. When you feel the vibe and you can connect with the audience, whether it’s a quiet audience sitting in chairs or a crazy audience dancing as if there’s no tomorrow, it’s complementary. I love to go back and forth.

Also, these hybrid formats are very interesting, there maybe new sensations, you don’t really know what to expect. In fact, I don’t know what to expect. I know what I want to play but I adapt.

I had some tracklist in my mind before I started playing yesterday and it was completely changed throughout the show because I was feeling it out. Of course, it all had to lead up to the grand finale with the students.

Todd L. Burns

Speaking of students, does anyone have any questions they’d like to ask?

Audience Member

I have two questions. First of all, you were talking about the history of the piano. To my knowledge, when the piano was first invented there wasn’t a set tuning scale at that time, so people tuned to their own pianos. Have you explored any different tuning systems at all or do you stick to the classic 12-tone system?

Francesco Tristano

You’re right, it has only been formatted since Bach onwards. Before Bach there were very few distinctive tuning systems. Tuning is a profession in its own [right]. I can play around but I’ll eventually break the piano if I tune it too much.

But I have worked with tuners, crazy guys who are absolutely willing to experiment with the tuning. You can get into antique tunings where the relationship of the intervals is specific to each key. So, for example, if I tell this very special tuner I know, “Look, I’m going to play some music by Frescobaldi and the keys are F major and A minor and C major,” he thinks for a second and starts tuning. Every modulation is such a big event because the relationship between the intervals is shocking. We don’t hear it that way.

Or you can go a completely different way, you can tune it with quarter-tones and go into more traditional Arab scales or go into completely crazy tuning systems. Everything’s possible but I can’t tune it on my own, I need a tuner to do it for me.

Audience Member

Thank you. Secondly, your exploration of electronica and piano or classical music, you’ve said the word “techno” a lot. Does that mean that you’re really only interested in working with a 4/4 beat pattern? The piano, like you’re saying, is a percussive instrument, so you’re talking about complex percussive things that interest you, but then when it comes to the electronic part the producers you’re working with seem to stick to the 4/4 format. So do you have any interest in doing something more complicated or different?

Francesco Tristano

Definitely. I have no issue with doing the 4/4, I love it. But the cool thing about having the four equal beats is you can do so much between the beats. If you have a kickdrum accentuating every beat, what I do harmonically or on the piano is pretty much syncopated. There’s so much space between the beats to make the groove happen. So it’s not like a limit or anything, it’s just a common denominator, just as in classical music you have certain figures like alberti bass. I can show this briefly, something like this.

(plays Wurlitzer)

All over classical music you hear something like that and it’s always the same but it’s always different. But I definitely like abstract beats and I’ve worked with other people like Sutekh, who’s not into heavy four-to-the-floor.

I’m definitely also into sound music where there’s no beat at all. The piano has these ambient properties where you don’t need a beat, you can just be spacey.

Audience Member

I play drums and I feel that in the last 25 years all the evolution in rhythm and beat culture has come from people who don’t play drums.

That’s a common perception among drummers, it’s electronic producers and programmers who’ve evolved beat culture. Do you feel the same about harmony?

Francesco Tristano

Interesting point. I absolutely agree with you, I think once we got machines – not just drummachines, but also synthesizers – the way organic musicians play has changed, absolutely.

You said before that the very specific chord progression could be from a non-composer because it’s basically just playing around and finding the chords. What I find interesting is that it becomes another language, it becomes a new kind of thing. Detroit techno, for example, you hear a lot of pentatonic stuff. It’s laid out pretty easily because it’s just the black keys, for example, but it becomes a very specific sound. And the way you listen to it, I don’t necessarily hear it as a pentatonic scale, I hear it as a new conglomerate of pitches that determine what the harmony of the piece is going to be. I’m not sure how far I can go with the analogy. I think Carl Craig is a great harmonizer, for example, he’s got some great harmonies. So is Mad Mike from Underground Resistance, he’s more from a gospel and jazz background.

But these evolutions, it’s not linear in that before it was that and now it’s that (moves hand up a few inches). But it’s basically a circle, we can go back and forwards. It just becomes a much richer harmonic language, just as it’s become a much richer rhythmic language since the advent of beat machines and stuff like that. So I think now it’s about amplifying your field and we have to learn from each other. It’s only about this, I think.

But you’re definitely right, the beatboxing has changed a lot of perception in rhythmic structure when it comes to organic drumming. And I count myself among you guys because, like I said, I play the drums in the piano, I like to play the drums.

Audience Member

I have a couple of questions. First, that version of “In A Landscape,” where and when was it recorded?

Francesco Tristano

A studio in Berlin, August 2010.

Audience Member

Just that I’ve been listening to it for a little while and I don’t even know where I got it, but the version I have on my computer is totally uncredited. That blew me away when you played it, I’ve even sampled it a couple of times. I hope that isn’t a problem (laughs).

Francesco Tristano

You won’t have a problem with me, you might have one with John Cage’s publisher (laughs).

Audience Member

And second, do you ever see yourself moving away from the piano completely and diving deeper into synthesized sounds, maybe even harmonic samples?

Francesco Tristano

Yeah, definitely. Ultimately, all these projects to combine sound from electronic and acoustic realms eventually will bring me further from the piano. They already bring me further from the piano because I have so many other elements to count on, more than the piano.

I’m happy when I have a piano on stage because I feel at home and if my laptop dies or my MIDI controller goes away, there’s no power or whatever, the piano will still sound. It’s a nice companion to have onstage because it will always sound no matter what happens. There can be bombs, it doesn’t matter, there will always be sound. There was a piano sounding when the Titanic went down, I think.

But yeah, definitely. Probably you noticed, I play the piano but I don’t play so much and when I play a lot then it’s a loop, always the same. I’m not into soloing right hand and chorusing, it’s more of a minimalistic approach and I guess the extreme end would be to not play the piano anymore. Not for now, but who knows, could be in the future.

Audience Member

What I noticed yesterday in the show is there’s quite a lot of emotional content to the music, but there’s quite a lot of dissonance as well. Where does that come from? What’s your interest in dissonance within that sort of music?

Francesco Tristano

Interesting question. I was reading some lectures by John Cage the other day and he said the old way to compose was to discern between consonance and dissonance and the new way to compose is to discern organized sound versus noise, what he calls noise. It could be unorganized or chaotic sounds or whatnot.

The dissonance is only dissonant if it’s surprising. If everything’s dissonant then it’s no longer dissonant, it just becomes consonant. So I do like to work with simple harmonies, simple chords, major trials, minor trials, sometimes a seventh.

But then at some point I like to break it, I like to break it, just as when you set a marker, you have a before and an after, so once you introduce the dissonance all the consonant stuff before will be transformed for the next part. The way I see it, I suppose, is very spontaneous and I can’t really calculate when it’s going to come in.

But in the programming there’s kind of a lot of dissonance because whatever I play at the piano – and I say, I like to be as free as I can – when I play live I like to play both hands. Sometimes you’ll see me EQ something and I have the right hand still playing, but the consonance is in our ear, so to speak.

But nowadays in 2011 we hear everything different, we hear such a large range of music and nothing is shocking anymore. The most dissonant stuff is not shocking because we’ve heard it. So I’d like to go the other way, so if you play a lot of pleasing harmonies and then you play something different it’s kind of a shock.

The first piece I played tonight, the Gibbons, it’s the same way. It starts out pretty soft and minor-y, and then all of a sudden it goes completely out. It’s not necessarily dissonant but it’s a progression that’s not within the tonal structure of music and it’s a surprise. I like to create new context for the way we listen to music, even if it’s old music – especially if it’s old music.

New music can’t really shock you anymore, old music can. It’s difficult to shock nowadays, I don’t know the last time I was shocked when I heard something. I think it’s refreshing to listen to the old stuff. The piece I played yesterday was 400 years old and very dissonant at times. It’s what gets me thinking, “Well, maybe this wall between old and new is all an illusion.”

Audience Member

Thanks.

Todd L. Burns

Does anyone else have any questions? Well, thank you very much, Francesco.