DJ Spinn & DJ Rashad
When the footwork craze first erupted out of Chicago, few were able to put names to the music behind the wild dancing. Gradually, though, DJ Rashad and DJ Spinn emerged as prime movers, South Side boys with a crate full of beats designed to move the crowd, but the curiosity and knowledge to look beyond their neighborhood. First they traveled to Detroit, and then the world, encouraged by admirers from the UK bass scene, such as Addison Groove.
In this riveting lecture at the 2011 Red Bull Music Academy, they reflect on the origins of juke and footwork, look at where it’s at now and claim that it’s high time urban music’s major players came calling.
Hosted by DAVIDE BORTOT Welcome, everybody. We have the great pleasure of having two gentlemen on the couch who came all the way from Chicago, two of the key figures of a musical
movement that has been popping up on a lot of musical radars over the last few years. But they’ve been around forever, doing their thing since the early
‘90s, so there’s a long story to tell. So give them a big, big round of applause. [applause] DJ RASHAD What’s up, Red Bull? DJ SPINN Thank you, thank you. DAVIDE BORTOT So you’re both from Chicago, born and always been there? DJ RASHAD Yep. DAVIDE BORTOT Where exactly? DJ SPINN South suburbs, can’t lie. But where we live at, I can guarantee you, it’s rougher than the city. DJ RASHAD For real. DAVIDE BORTOT For all of us who haven’t been to Chicago – I’ve been just once – can you fill us in on this whole Southside thing. What’s the difference between there and the West Side? There’s not an East Side, right? So what’s the geography of the city? DJ SPINN We’ve got a big lake, so the East Side is predominantly the South Side still.
You’ve got the whole Southside, which starts at 127th block to zero, when
you go up in the numbers. It goes all the way east to the lake. I don’t even
know what block that is, it’s pretty far. That stretches all the way from zero
all the way east. Then on the West Side, it’s from downtown, more hundred
blocks all the way to the West Side. The South Side, we have most of the project buildings on
the South Side, a lot of great music and a lot of great art. Man, imagination and
everything coming into being. Just hard circumstances that came out of a real
rough area. DAVIDE BORTOT You said before you got into DJing, you got into DJing back in ‘92, Rashad. What were you playing back then? House? DJ RASHAD We were playing old-school house, the Trax Records, Dance Mania, if you guys are familiar with that. And a lot of techno. DAVIDE BORTOT Techno as in stuff from Detroit? DJ RASHAD Stuff from Detroit and from overseas as well. DAVIDE BORTOT Overseas. What kind of stuff? DJ RASHAD Speedy J “Pull Over,” things like that. DJ SPINN Kraftwerk. DJ RASHAD Should we play the music we’ve got for you? DAVIDE BORTOT We can do that later on. I was just curious. But house, how did you get
exposed to that music? Was that on the radio? Was it something you picked up in
record shops, was it people playing it in their cars? How did you first get in
touch with that type of music? DJ RASHAD It was the clubs we were going to as kids, like Jubilation. Jubilation was a teen
club for sixth grade to high school, believe it or not. They kicked us out
at 11 PM and the party continued ‘till 2 AM for the older guys. So we used to
get a taste of the nightlife when we were young and we heard it and went crazy
for it. DAVIDE BORTOT Was the DJing first or were you into dancing first? DJ RASHAD Dancing was first, but I started doing both from seventh grade, started DJing.
I kind of stopped dancing for a minute and I wanted to focus more on DJing. At
that time I was kind of playing around with it, I didn’t know what I was
doing at the time. But I got further into it and it took off from there. DAVIDE BORTOT How about you? DJ SPINN I’ve been dancing all my life. Me and him, when we met, we was like the same spirit, something divine or something. It was crazy. By the time we got to meet each other officially in ‘95 in high school, we’d already seen each other in parties and stuff. Then I got with him. He already had a drum machine, turntables at the house. I gave him a call. He was, “I’m over here mixing, man, you should
come through.” “Damn, I’m working.” Working, I’m a young dude working. But I’m, “Man,
this dude’s really got equipment? Wow! I’ve gotta get up with him ASAP!” DAVIDE BORTOT What kind of equipment are we talking about? What drum machine? DJ RASHAD At that time I had a Dr. Rhythm
660 and I had one Technics 1200 and a
BD-12 Gemini, if you all remember that back in the day. Allowance money. DJ SPINN Don’t forget the Gemini mixer with the sampler. DAVIDE BORTOT So maybe you could play some of the records that you’d play back then, stuff
that influenced you at that time. We’re talking early, early ‘90s, ‘92, ’93? DJ RASHAD Definitely. (music: Fast Eddie – “Hip House”) DJ RASHAD Do you all know this song? DAVIDE BORTOT What’s that, for people who don’t know? DJ SPINN Fast Eddie, “Hip House.” This is a
little compilation we put together of the stuff we grew up with, influential
stuff and the stuff we were listening to on the dancefloor. Do you all know
what this is right here? (music: Steve Poindexter – “Work That Motherfucker”) DJ RASHAD This was one of the hits right here back in the day. DJ SPINN Steve Poindexter. DJ RASHAD People used to go crazy to this back in the day. We were shorties listening to
this, so we was like, “What is this?” DJ SPINN Just to hear cursing on the record constantly. It was insane. (music: The 28th Street Crew – “I Need A Rhythm”) We’re still
listening to stuff like this too. It’s more like a club, 909 stuff. DJ RASHAD Has anybody heard this? (music: Lil Louis – “The Original Video Clash”) DJ SPINN This record here, Lil Louis, “Video
Clash.” This is a super-classic right here. This was the beginning of a lot of
crews coming together and dancing against each other. It wasn’t even footwork
back then, it was like animation. It’s hard for me to explain. DJ RASHAD Kind of like breaking mixed with… I can’t describe it. We didn’t have a name for it back then. DJ SPINN You were little. (music: Crystal Waters – “Gypsy Woman (She’s Homeless)”) DJ RASHAD You already know what this is, definitely a big hit. DJ SPINN Crystal Waters, “Gypsy Woman.”
This right here is Lidell Townsell, “Nu Nu.” (music: Lidell Townsell – “Nu Nu”) DJ RASHAD Also big, too. DJ SPINN Real big. Big box afros, everybody was coming out with the curls and all that. (music: Cajmere – “Percolator”) DJ SPINN If you all listen to it, pretty much the drums are all similar, all at this time. DJ RASHAD This changed the game for us in Chicago. DJ SPINN If ya’ll can’t hear the difference from what we were playing before to this,
this made everyone go crazy. It was just a coffee pot on the tape, a coffee
pot on the tape, we’ll percolate that. Everyone went crazy. How many tracks
were on that tape? DJ RASHAD Four. DJ SPINN Four tracks. You could keep this on repeat, but every one was a banger. [percolator sound begins] Just that sound right there. DJ RASHAD: People would go crazy, fighting and shit, for real. I’ve seen people crying to
this shit. Crazy. [DJ Spinn dances] That’s “The Percolator” right there, that’s the East
Side percolator. [Rashad dances] This is the West Side here. (music: Cajmere feat. Dajae – “Brighter Days”) DJ RASHAD This was also a hit, right after “The Percolator.” DJ SPINN This is the one where girls would just pop. This is more Cajmere, he was running it back then. DJ RASHAD Cajmere was the man. He still is the man, one of my idols right there. We’re gonna let you
hear this if you haven’t heard it before. (music: Dajae – “You Got Me Up”) DJ SPINN It’s crazy because he’s from our neighborhood. We thought he was from deep
in the city or something, they from the suburbs like us. DJ RASHAD Stayed in my same building. I didn’t even know it ’till he moved out. Crazy. Upstairs, yo. DJ SPINN Everybody stayed in his apartment complex. DJ RASHAD Y’all remember this one? (music: Aly-Us – “Follow Me”) DJ SPINN This was huge. Back in these days, right here, I can’t even explain. People were making good music. They were
feeling good, making good tracks. (music: Nightcrawlers – “Push the Feeling On”) DJ RASHAD Nightcrawlers, of course. “Push the Feeling.” DJ SPINN This is all the stuff that really made us want to DJ. We were just kids. I
think Rashad was DJing, though. DJ RASHAD But I wasn’t producing, I was just playing records. (music: Outhere Brothers – “Pass the Toilet Paper”) DJ SPINN This is the Outhere Brothers, they actually from
around our neighborhood too. We never knew that ‘till later. So that was… when was that? (music stops / applause) DJ RASHAD That was like ‘89 ‘till ‘96. DJ SPINN No, I mean as far as it went to. DJ RASHAD That was from ‘86 to ‘92, ’93. (music: Paul Johnson – “Bump Talkin’“) DJ SPINN So we’re gonna step it up a bit with Paul Johnson, ‘93, ’94, and you can
hear another change in the tracks. Stuff started to get way more simple. DJ RASHAD A lot of hooks and vocals too. (music: Eric Martin – “Fire Alarm”) DJ SPINN Eric Martin, “Fire Alarm.” This is when we was getting it in. Like, getting ready to become real dancers when these tracks were out. These were the floor-testers right here. We weren’t dancing on a hard floor right now. Not yet. We were still
playing. This is the early stuff though – skating rink. Everybody used to party
at the skating rink back in those days, early ‘90s, until now almost. They still party at the skating rinks in Chicago. (music: DJ Funk – “Pop That Pussy”) This is another change in the programming, sequencing
right here, DJ Funk. Another cat from
the West Side. DAVIDE BORTOT When you say change in the program, what’s the change? DJ SPINN You probably can’t tell, but go back to… [plays song again] From this, it’s more like rhythms.
Then we get back to drums. DJ RASHAD And it’s faster too. And more words in the track at this time. (Jammin Gerald – unknown) DJ SPINN It started getting a lot simpler, just the simplicity to make a nice track.
How can you get simpler than that? Move it, that’s it. [music continues]
That’s what made people go crazy right there. DJ RASHAD That bass is just crazy, man. DJ SPINN This is Jammin Gerald from the
West Side of Chicago. The West Side of Chicago was the real party side of
town, so they made distinct party tracks. DJ Wax
Master, DJ Funk, Jammin
Gerald, Traxman, they made the clap, four-
to-the-floor with the bass. We didn’t do it like that on the Southside. (music: L-Vis 1990 feat. Jammin Gerald – “Move It”) DJ SPINN Here come the edits, the “its,” I want to call them. “Pump It,” “Work It,” “Hit It.” There were so many of them, but this is probably our number one so we put this on. Cats started using more 808s around this time. DJ RASHAD I think it’s a bit of both – 808
and 909 around this time. (music: unknown) DJ SPINN This track right here, I can remember he was a DJ on a college station back
then and I was just a listener. Tracks like this you couldn’t hear nowhere
else but the college station. These guys, Donnell Rush, they’d be killing it at the
radio station. They were as old as me, just a little bit older, but man,
they were kids. We’re all kids and they’re DJing like us? Wow. (music: unknown) DJ SPINN Oh yeah, about ‘94, we’re still in the early ‘90s. DAVIDE BORTOT So will you be done by about 10 PM more or less? DJ RASHAD Oh no, we’re gonna go through them really quickly, yo, don’t worry. DAVIDE BORTOT I could listen to that for hours. (music: DJ Deeon – “Where the Hoes At?”) DJ SPINN Then DJ Deeon came. These guys are low end, they’re from the South Side of
Chicago. DJ RASHAD Another legend for us, an idol as well, DJ Deeon. This is what, ‘96? DJ SPINN Yeah. This was the super-party anthem back then. You couldn’t go anywhere
without anybody saying, “Uh-oh.” DJ RASHAD “Where the hoes?” DJ SPINN This track right here, this is DJ Milton. This was Deeon’s partner in crime, so when we were coming up we really wanted to fill Milton and Deeon’s
shoes. Whenever that day came. We studied their music to the T. Milton had
the more beat tracks, Deeon had the voice. It went hand to hand. Another
Deeon, that voice again. (music: DJ Deeon – “Shake What Your Mama Gave Ya”) (music: DJ Deeon – unknown) DJ RASHAD This was big too, though. DJ SPINN These are the first records we started playing at parties, right here. Then after ‘96, in
came the word juke right here. DJ
Puncho and Gant-Man, they put the word on the map,
they came out with an album called Let Me See You Juke. DAVIDE BORTOT Before we get into it, quickly maybe, if you listen to that stuff, especially
sitting in front of a speaker like that, it makes perfect sense. There’s a
pretty unbroken lineage, even from the Muzic Box, Frankie Knuckles-era
type of house music to the Cajmere stuff, ghetto house, later on. How did that
happen, the stuff getting simpler and faster? Was there pressure from the
dance? Do you have an explanation? DJ RASHAD Yeah, we can break that down right now. That’s when Dance Mania pretty much closed down.
It’s really our fault, truthfully. Everybody that was on Dance Mania Records, when it closed down,
they stopped DJing. Deeon, Milton,
Slugo, PJ, Wax Master, DJ Funk, too. Everybody just
left, as far as Chicago goes. They weren’t doing any parties, they stopped
making music, they just left the scene completely. So that left me, this guy,
DJ Clent, our people, Traxman and
Gant-Man, just out there. So we were like, “Fuck it. We’re gonna take over.”
But we didn’t know we were gonna get this far. DJ SPINN Just holding it down for our city. DAVIDE BORTOT Where did you play at that time? What were the kind of parties and clubs you
played at? DJ RASHAD Dolton Expo, Capellini’s club. DJ SPINN Teen events, like 15, 16 and up, something like that. You get in with a high school
ID, you had to be a sophomore or higher to get in the party. You couldn’t
be older than 21 to get in. DJ RASHAD Also on the low end too, 51st, the Elks, St. Elizabeth, all the projects, we were
everywhere. DJ SPINN At the same time, we were in a place called House-O-Matics that was on the low
end of Chicago. They gave us our first break DJing at the biggest parties in
the city. That was a blessing. That was our plan, though, to get in with them
so we can DJ and make tracks. DAVIDE BORTOT So what kind of places were they? What kind of people would come? DJ RASHAD Dalton Expo was four thousand people every Friday and Saturday night. DAVIDE BORTOT Were you able to make a living off that? Did you get paid properly or was it more a fun thing back then? DJ RASHAD We were kids. We got a little something to keep our mouths shut, but we didn’t
care, we were happy to do it. It was all about the love, just having a good
time. I wish we would’ve focused on the money a bit more, but nah, we didn’t get it. DJ SPINN At the same time, the older guys who were already established, they never really helped us.
No one was ever like, “I see the potential in you guys, we want to help you. You
want to put out a record or something.” They’d give us little hints like, “Keep
that under wraps” or “you should put that out on Dance Mania” or something like that. We
didn’t know Dance Mania was gonna come to a close as soon as it did. We were
just getting out feet wet. We wish we could play some of our tracks from back
in the day, but unfortunately, they was on tapes. And who has a tape player
here? Nobody. DAVIDE BORTOT The question should be: Who knows what a tape player is? DJ SPINN Like what is a cassette? DAVIDE BORTOT But seriously, do you have these tracks? Do you still play them out? Or are they somewhere lost on tape? DJ RASHAD The tracks we’ve got we still play, yeah. DAVIDE BORTOT From that time? DJ SPINN Like this stuff right here. But as far as our original productions, we have
none of that. Somebody has them somewhere, they hoarde them somewhere and they keep them for safe-keeping I guess. They’ll find us one day and bless us. Get our own music back. DAVIDE BORTOT You mentioned before that Cajmere was living in your building and you
didn’t know that. Probably you read the name on a record and thought they must
be superstars. How were people like Slugo and Deeon? Did you know them? DJ RASHAD We met them through House-O-Matics because they were also House-O-Matics DJs.
So once we got in a dance group with them, the president introduced us to
Deeon. We were nervous and shit. But we met them and we had to prove our
point. Back then it was no Serato, it was no YouTube, none of that. You
had to prove that you could DJ on 12s and records. You had to carry crates of
records too back then. We had to show them what we were about, man. DAVIDE BORTOT So what was the relationship like? Was it a competition thing like, “These
kids want to take my spot”? Or was it like, “I see some passion, let me help these guys”? DJ SPINN We never felt any bad blood from anyof the older guys. But we’re not from where
they’re from, so I guess they didn’t know how to approach us to help us out, if they did want to help us out. It was more a thing where we’re gonna
keep it going anyway. We’re dancing, and we’ve got fans as far as what we do. So we’re good. We
love your music, we’re gonna still play it. As much as they put out, as long
as it’s good tracks, we’re gonna play it. DAVIDE BORTOT So shall we get into some of those tracks, your stuff? DJ SPINN [stares at computer] We got a couple more? We’ve got a couple throwbacks from ‘98, our first release with Dance Mania. This is my track “Motherfucker.” I
did this with his sampler that I got from him, the Gemini mixer sampler, and I pushed the button and programmed a beat and it got put on a record. (music: DJ Spinn – “Motherfucker”) DJ RASHAD Right after that record it closed down on us. We came on the spot with Dance
Mania and it shut down on us man. Fuck. But we made it. DJ SPINN Imagine this. [pushes button / track loops] It was crazy, man, didn’t know nothing about MIDI. This dude, he’s a master when it comes to beats, he always
made the dopest beats, all the time. DJ RASHAD So like I was saying, Dance Mania closed and we got an email from DJ Godfather from
Detroit. This was 2002. He told us to come down and check him out one weekend
so me and Clint went down there. Before we talked business he took us to a
club called the State. It was a nice club out there at this time. Coming from
Chicago we didn’t see this type of club. At this club, it was all kind of races there;
everybody just having a good time, white, black, Mexican, Asian. It didn’t matter
who you was, you was out there getting on the floor. This was some of the
stuff that was playing when we got there. It changed the game for us too. (music: unknown) DJ SPINN It was much faster. I think this track is actually pitched up, but they DJed
fast anyway. They were way faster than us and we were, “Whoa! We play our
stuff fast.” And cutting. DJ RASHAD They were scratching and cutting. Chicago DJs, some did it, but not as much as Detroit. They was killin’. DJ SPINN So we’re going out to Detroit, like, “This is what y’all making?” It was almost the
same thing. But this was a more I wanna say a polished, commercial sound to what they were doing. We just had hood sound. It was
minimal, but they were bringing more of a techno aspect into it. DJ RASHAD More synths. More rhythms. (music: Starski and Clutch – “Belle Isle Players”) DJ SPINN Before we were putting out the juke tracks, he was telling us, we looking for the Chicago
sound, the stuff we were used to, the stuff we were just playing, like the
ghetto house. We were, “Well, we do that,” but it changed since then, it
changed over time, from ‘99 to 2003 when we got with the label, a lot of stuff
changed. We were still making Chicago stuff. DJ RASHAD Footwork, actually, but we didn’t have a name for it. DJ SPINN We didn’t call it footwork back then. DJ RASHAD It was just called “trax” at that time. We let them hear some of them. I’ll
play one we let him hear and he was like, “Nah, man.” (music: DJ Rashad – “Red Zone”) DJ RASHAD This is not DJ friendly at all, so you have to switch it up. DJ SPINN That Minnie Riperton sample
right there. DJ RASHAD He didn’t understand why the clap’s off. “Naw, you can’t do that.” DJ SPINN You had to be truthful. When we were out selling our CDs on the West Side –
we’re from the South Side, so when we’re selling on the Westside and play
this stuff, they’re like, “Oh man, this is not like house music. What is this?
This is rap.” “No, this ain’t rap, this is trax man, this is what we do.” It
took a while. We sold a couple of CDs in their stores and after a couple of
weeks we were selling out on the West Side. They were like, “We need some more of
that footwork. For real.” We were like, “OK, we’ve got more for you.” DAVIDE BORTOT Terminology. You mentioned “juke” before. How did that come about again? DJ SPINN [to Rashad] Play the song. It came from one track Puncho and Gant-Man made
back in ‘98. This was getting played on radio and everything, and I guess
that’s how it got familiar with people’s ears. They called it juke because it
was on the radio, they dictated what was going on. (music: DJ Puncho – “Let Me C-U- Juke”) DJ RASHAD But they didn’t play it on the radio until about two years later, though. DJ SPINN Yeah, about 2000. From this track right here, saying “juke” on the track, that just helped stamp
it on the sound. The ghetto house guys, they didn’t want to claim it as ghetto
house and the house guys definitely didn’t want to claim it as house. So we were
stuck, just out there tossed to the side with our own music. It was cool, we
had a fanbase, so it wasn’t like nobody listened to our music. As far
as people wanting to like our music and show respect for what they did before
us, we wanted to keep it going. But the ghetto house guys, they were like, “Nah, this ain’t ghetto house.” DAVIDE BORTOT And the word “juke,” was it popular before that track? Did people say that and that’s why they put it on the track, or was it the other way round? The
connection between that sound and the word? DJ SPINN It kinda was. That’s just some Chicago slang. DJ RASHAD I think Puncho and them kicked it off. They was the first ones to bring it out. DAVIDE BORTOT So that stuff you went on to do, the footwork stuff, you can tell it’s in the
lineage of house music, but the rhythms are different, not straight four-to-
the-floor stuff, more twisted. You mentioned hip-hop before, was that an
influence at that time for you? Did you listen to any hip-hop? DJ SPINN Oh yeah, that’s been an influence from day one. Hip-hop and all music we like,
anything we put in that our parents listen to, our uncles and aunts, whatever
we listened to when we were little.
Once technology started catching up
with what we were doing, we were able to manipulate the samples a lot better.
Just having a tape deck and pitching it up fast so it sounded like a chipmunk
or whatever. Pitching it slow and it sounded [makes slow-motion noise]. Once the technology started
keeping up with what we were doing it started making sense to the dancers. DAVIDE BORTOT So what did you use at that time? What kind of equipment? DJ SPINN We still had the same drum machine, the 660, we had that for a long time. DJ RASHAD The JS-30 Roland sampler. DJ SPINN You had to MIDI that together and do some crazy MIDI stuff with the
drum machine and the sampler to make it work. It was kinda hard but we mastered it. No MPC ‘till ‘04. DJ RASHAD Yeah, but our friend Clint has an
MPC at this time, so
we were in his studio most of the time working on his MPC there. DAVIDE BORTOT You used the term “footwork” before. How did that first come about? Who came up
with the name for that sound? DJ RASHAD We don’t know. It’s like the people, really. DAVIDE BORTOT Oh, those guys. DJ RASHAD People were like, “Play some footwork, man.” “What?” But when you heard that a
couple of times it stuck, just like juke did. We didn’t capitalize and say, “We’re gonna call this footwork.” It wasn’t us. DAVIDE BORTOT You can tell that stuff sounded different. Was it your intention to do
something that sounded different from all the other stuff that was out at that
time, just from being in Detroit? Did it just come about or was it an
intentional thing? DJ RASHAD When we went to Detroit, we were always doing the footwork on the side. But due
to the standards that we had set for us, we had to commercialize our shit and make
it radio-friendly, DJ-friendly. So at that time we were doing both. Footwork
was always there for us, that was something I could go to and do whatever I want type thing, versus trying to make a hit record. Let me show you for example. This is some
shit I put out after I heard the Detroit sound. (music: DJ Rashad – “Roy Ayers Show”) DJ SPINN People liked this music. We didn’t make it for anybody to like it but us. This is some stuff in the house. We were making stuff to ride around to in the car and play at parties and stuff. (music: unknown) (music: DJ Rashad – “On Your Face”) DJ SPINN What’s this, like ‘05? DJ RASHAD Yeah, I made this ‘05. I’m a big fan of Black Moon so… What was the name of this song? DJ SPINN “Who Got the Props.” DJ RASHAD So I found out where the original was from and made it myself. DJ SPINN At the same time, we’d still keep it traditional. We never wanted to change it
all the way, but in certain ways, we had to. The respect from the guys who were
doing it before us, they never really respected us to the level we wanted. We
just wanted respect out of homage ‘cause we looked up to those guys. It was like, “OK, you don’t wanna accept what we’ve got going on, we’re gonna change it. It doesn’t matter.” DAVIDE BORTOT If you talk to producers and DJs, probably one of the biggest clichés in the
history dance music is, “Yeah, I’m a DJ, so I think like a DJ, so I produce
tracks that I’d like to play as a DJ.” So you also being dancers, does that
affect the stuff you produce? “This is stuff I want to dance to?” DJ SPINN Oh yeah, 100%. DJ RASHAD Oh yeah, that’s where it came from, the dancing side of us. Dancers from
Chicago really like bass, claps, something crazy and something unexpected and
that’s what we try to keep up for the people that are still dancing. DAVIDE BORTOT You say “still dancing” and you played some of the early records from when the
battles were going on. So when did that whole thing originate, the idea of
rolling up as a crew to a club and having this kind of dance battle in the club? DJ RASHAD Probably when breakdancing came out. DJ SPINN From there you’ve got the house dancers and from the house dancers to the
ghetto house dancers. It was different movements everybody had. The house
dancers just like this [holds hands up], cool, you know. You’ve got the
ghetto house dancers doing a little something different. Then you get the ghetto house
doing more with the feet. In the late ‘90s, they started getting really
complicated when it came to footwork. Now, these kids are amazing, they’re
dancing so fast. But at the same time, we make the music so they can slow down
to catch their breath and then come back to going fast. It worked out. DAVIDE BORTOT In terms of house dancers, who were the you ones you looked
up to? DJ SPINN The number one dude from Chicago, his name is Ant Brown. He’s the guy that taught
us, the one who invented footwork in Chicago, as far as modernizing it and making it with skill
and being like, “I ain’t gonna mess with him.” DJ RASHAD Yeah, people were scared of him when he came in the club. People were dancing,
“You see Ant? Oh, shit.” [stops dancing] ‘Cause he would embarrass you and take all the girls. It was like, “Fuck. Ant’s here.” DJ SPINN That’s all it was about back in the day, respect. We didn’t care about money. DJ RASHAD Respect and girls, that’s all we cared about. The juice, we called it. DJ SPINN We’d get a little money DJing and that’s extras. DAVIDE BORTOT Why don’t you play some of those YouTube videos just to give people an idea of
what we’ve been talking about? DJ RASHAD Sure, sure. [video] DJ SPINN This is something we used to do every Sunday for the last three years. We had
three different spots. It gets crazy. This is just underground, super-
underground, no license-type stuff. So check the guys out. Here we go. Can we
get some sound? No sound. [laughs] DAVIDE BORTOT Can we get some sound? [technician sorts sound] Talking about underground. DJ RASHAD This is the storefront that one of our partners rented out. DJ SPINN Probably used to sell potatoes out of there or something. DJ RASHAD What we tried to do was set something so the footworkers had something to do.
And kids, whoever. Instead of just banging on the streets, smoking, selling drugs or whatever,
‘cause it’s crazy out in Chicago. Ain’t shit to do but get
into trouble. So we figured maybe we’d have something for these guys to do, to
express themselves in another way. We really didn’t get any money out of this,
this was for the kids. [flicks through video] DJ SPINN We need some help, please. I never did this double screen. Right, right, right, I see it. DJ RASHAD That’s me DJing right now. DJ SPINN [sound comes on] We’ll go back some, hopefully it don’t mess up now. Ya’ll
looking at two of the best crews in Chicago. They’re going at it right now,
just for respect. DJ RASHAD Nah, this is for money. DJ SPINN It’s for money? DJ RASHAD Yeah, we did $100 that night. DJ SPINN They was going crazy, that’s why. [joking about technical difficulties with video] I guess it’s slowing down so you can get a second to think about what you’ve seen. DAVIDE BORTOT You’d want to take some rest too if you danced like this. DJ SPINN [Spinn plays with video] All I do is make tracks. Hopefully this one don’t mess up. [laughs / video
restarts] DJ RASHAD This is for $200. They just showed the money. DJ SPINN I wonder if ya’ll can be the judge and see who the better dancers are. I
wouldn’t be dancing like that for money. DJ RASHAD You notice how the crowd is real quiet. [laughs] Dude’s weak. DJ SPINN Believe me, these guys dance like this all night for like six hours. For a little
bit of money, but it’s mostly for the respect and the love of footworking. As you
can see, the guys on the left lost and the guys on the right got the money.
That’s just a little example. That’s how we do, that’s how we’ve been doing
for the last three years in Chicago. DAVIDE BORTOT So in terms of who gets the money, how does that work? Is it like a
soundclash-type thing where the crowd gets to decide, or is there a judging panel? DJ RASHAD We’ve got judges, we do random judges. Mostly, we try to get people who aren’t
in the groups, so there won’t be favoritism. DAVIDE BORTOT How often would you put on something like that? Is it on a weekly basis? DJ RASHAD It’s every week, but we’ve been on tour a lot so we haven’t really been doing
it. And the spot we had… what happened to the spot? DJ SPINN They didn’t pay their bills. DJ RASHAD They didn’t pay their bills, so we’re currently looking for a new spot and
when we get back we’re gonna try something again. DAVIDE BORTOT So apart from that format, with kids just rolling up in a random spot and
dancing, is there also a club scene for that in Chicago? Do you do stuff like
that on a regular basis as well? Or is it more of a thing where you travel
abroad and this is the scene there? DJ RASHAD There are club spots, but the way the scene is in our clubs today, you might
hear this kind of music only for about an hour. Because people can’t dance and they
can’t relate to that shit and they get mad. “These motherfuckers be dancing and shit.” They get mad. I dunno. Explain it to him. DJ SPINN This is a perfect example. I was hanging out for my birthday. I’m older than a lot of these guys, so I’m just hanging out. The DJ sees me, “Yo, Spinn in the house, happy birthday.” He started playing tracks for like two hours. I’m like,
“Please man stop, you’re embarrassing me.” That’s too much for anybody, they’re
not in the clubs to hear that, man. It’s cool that you show me love, but it
only lasts for a certain span in the club. This place [points to video
screen] is where it can stay all night. DAVIDE BORTOT So in terms of new records, I know you play a lot of your own stuff. So do you
roll up every week with 20 new tracks or are there hits in these battle
scenarios? How many new tracks do you knock out in a week? DJ SPINN Countless. DJ RASHAD Yeah, I don’t know. DAVIDE BORTOT Like 10 a day countless? Or 50? DJ RASHAD Nah, I wouldn’t say 50 a day, but at least five or six a day. Me and DJ Manny, one
of the other guys we’ve got in the crew, we’ll just go back to back all day.
Then we’ll go play it there and that’s how we test the tracks out. We’ll go
play them in the battlegrounds or the parties and see how they respond to it. Then we’ll know if it’s good or bad. DAVIDE BORTOT How do actually approach a track like that in terms of production? Do you come up with the hook first or the sample first? Or come up with some drums? DJ RASHAD It kinda really all depends on the mood you’re in. If I’m gonna do a track with some
samples in it, I’ll start with the samples first, cut ’em up and work the beat around
the samples. Just take it from there. DAVIDE BORTOT With the stuff you release, is it mostly just done in an hour? DJ RASHAD Yeah, some of it’s 15 minutes, some of it’s two hours. But a lot of the stuff
that we put out with Planet Mu, it’s not our choice. They
kind of pick what they want. The stuff we did want to put out, the stuff we work
hard on, you might not hear on Planet Mu. But we’ve got another little record
label coming out, [which] we’re gonna put most of that stuff out on. DAVIDE BORTOT Your own one? DJ RASHAD Yeah, something like that. One of our partners is doing it. So that’s coming
up real soon, Lit City Records. DAVIDE BORTOT With that whole Planet Mu thing, that was surprising when you first
heard there was this label in the UK taking interest in what you guys were
doing and wanting to put out some stuff. Was it like, “Yeah, great,” or were there
some reservations at first? If you think about the history of dance music,
there were so many labels fucked up by European labels, even all the way back
in the ’80s with acid house, Chicago house. So what did you think when
Mike Paradinas or whoever first approached you? DJ SPINN I don’t think he approached us first. I think it was DJ Nate first. DJ RASHAD It was Nate, Roc and then me. Pretty
much I was blessed and happy he approached me. I really had never heard of Planet Mu until he approached me, but I did my research and was like, “Damn, this is what’s up.” It felt good to have another whole side of the world approach me to put out my record, so it was a good feeling to me. DAVIDE BORTOT What’s the connection to Nate and Roc anyway? Do you spend a lot of time with
these people? You know them, but is it like a crew? DJ RASHAD Nate isn’t even around. We haven’t seen him ever. DJ SPINN A lot of these guys really don’t participate in the scene as we participate in
the scene. We’ve been dong this for 15 years, so it’s hard to not be mad. I’m
not mad at anybody coming up doing what we do, but it’s a respect issue. Just
like how we wanted to earn our respect from the guys before us, I just want to show love. DJ RASHAD It’s not even about respect. If you’re there and you’re part of this movement,
you should be showing at these parties. I can’t speak for Roc, he’s shown up
at a couple of parties, but for the most part we’ve never seen DJ Nate, ever. We’re not hating or nothing, that’s just the truth. [to DJ Spinn] Have you ever seen DJ Nate at a
footwork event? DJ SPINN Not a footwork event, no. DJ RASHAD Exactly, never. Nobody’s mad or nobody’s hating, but if you’re gonna be part of the
movement and claim the fame, you should be representing. DAVIDE BORTOT Nate’s music is a little different, though. It has more of a hip-hop twist. DJ SPINN Nate music and certain Roc tunes are like our style from about 2002 when we
just went crazy. When we got with Godfather, he put us in line like, “Yo. I can’t put out this crazy stuff.” So we had to change it up. For them to get the
opportunity to just put out their raw tracks, hey, that’s cool. DJ RASHAD More power to them. DAVIDE BORTOT So you said you’d never heard of Planet Mu before they approached you. What’s
with all the other UK or European rave stuff, the hardcore stuff then later jungle, drum & bass?
The energy’s very similar, the speed of the records is similar, a little
slower, but still. Was that ever an influence? Did you know about that? Did
you pick up random bits? Was that something you were into? DJ SPINN All I can say was that ‘07 when we went to Seattle? DJ RASHAD Think that was ‘08. DJ SPINN: ‘07, ’08. Seattle was an experience that really put us in tune with other
music. And we didn’t know it was coming from across the water. We thought these
guys on the West coast made it. “Damn, this is that skateboard music? Shit.” We get in touch with people and find out what the real deal is. Oh! OK. We’re hearing
that guys from overseas are picking up on the style we’re making and we’re
like, “OK, that’s cool.” The first person I saw who openly said it was
Addison Groove in interviews. “I listen to Rashad and Spinn.” We’re like, “What? OK. Cool.” DJ RASHAD From there we linked up with Addison Groove. DAVIDE BORTOT He was here last week. DJ RASHAD Yeah, we found out. DAVIDE BORTOT So on a general level, how do you feel about people these days around the
world producing stuff that’s obviously influenced by your own stuff? I’m not
gonna lie, for a lot of people, including me, we weren’t really up to what you
guys were really doing. We may have been familiar with the name, footwork and
juke and a few of the tracks, but not really familiar with what was going on.
Then all of a sudden you have all of these kids making juke music or juke-
influenced music. How do you feel about that? DJ SPINN I love it. They show the proper respect behind it. They show more respect than
the Chicago guys. DJ RASHAD It’s not even that. They take it and they flip it their own way, and that’s creative
right there. It’s not like they’re just biting from us, and it’s kind of
flattering. We love it and we support it and we also play it. I think it’s a good thing. That’s what’s up. DAVIDE BORTOT How about some of the older cats from Chicago, somebody like Frankie Knuckles? Is there any connection there, would he know what you’re doing? With you all
getting bigger bookings and playing festivals, I assume your paths cross. DJ SPINN Not really. DJ RASHAD I ain’t seen Frankie Knuckles. DJ SPINN. Man, I can’t think of the guy. There was one guy, an old school cat, he was
actually in Chicago trying to lock down all the high schools, representing
juke. But he was from house, he never played a part in juke. I can’t think
of his name right now. He was a big house guy from Chicago and he was really
trying to capitalize on juke parties in high schools. He never had
nothing to do with juke at all. That’s the crazy stuff we go through in
Chicago. DAVIDE BORTOT Have you ever met other people around the world? I think there’s a bit of a
scene in Paris and of course, the whole UK approach to it added their own UK
way of doing bass music and that whole tradition, coming from garage and
jungle and all these things. Is there a scene anywhere else in the world where they really do the stuff like you do it? DJ SPINN Yeah, Paris – we’ve got the Booty
Call crew up there. DJ RASHAD Kaptain Cadillac, Marvy Da
Pimp. Where is it, the Hague?
They’ve got a Juke Squad. We
weren’t expecting that. They’ve got a nice little community, kind of how we’re
doing it, but they’ve got it their own way. DJ SPINN I think there’s some Japanese guys ‘cause I know they’ve got some dance crews
out there. The dancers touched the other side of the water first, so they got a chance to spread the seed of the dancing first. For the other guys that picked up on
what they were doing, they had to find the music to do it to. So it worked
hand in hand. We’re just blessed to have the opportunity to spread our music. For real. DAVIDE BORTOT Did your sound and approach to producing music change at all with you touring in the last few years, getting these bookings all around the world and playing in these clubs and areas? Did
that change your way of producing at all? DJ SPINN Not producing, but we’ll play certain stuff, like they might not be ready for
this, we’ll give them some techno or four-to-the-floor. In certain places
they just want to hear footwork, so we’re like, “OK, cool, we’ll just Chicago it out.” DJ RASHAD A lot of places are starting to ask for the footwork now, which is kind of
shocking ‘cause I thought they wouldn’t be ready for it, but they come up to
us and they’ve got the phone [holds arm out] and are like, “Play this!” Damn, they know the name of it? All right, cool. So I kind of feel at home when I’m going to these places now, like London. It’s really cool and I love
it. It’s cool, it’s crazy. DAVIDE BORTOT Good. Maybe we can open it up to any questions now. Does anyone have any
questions? AUDIENCE MEMBER I read in an interview with Mike
Paradinas that some tracks of yours that he wanted to use he couldn’t find, or you guys couldn’t find, so he had to rip the YouTube. Is that right? DJ RASHAD That wasn’t us. I know what you’re talking about. Mike didn’t hit me up,
that’s what it was. No disrespect to Mike. It was a misunderstanding with communication, that’s all that was. What he did was just took it off YouTube. A lot of the tracks he’s got he took off YouTube. Not just ours. AUDIENCE MEMBER He said he masters them and the sound was pretty good, you know? [laughter] DJ RASHAD I don’t know, I just know he took them off YouTube and he could’ve just hit me
up. I’d have given him a 320 [kbps MP3] version. DAVIDE BORTOT There’s another one over there. AUDIENCE MEMBER I guess he touched on this for a second, but since it’s kind of like a movement now and a
lot of people are using juke-inspired sounds that aren’t necessarily even
catered towards the dancefloor, do you find you can be a little more free with it?
Like, you don’t have to just make music for the parties, you can make some
Super weird shit, stuff you just wouldn’t play at a party? Because people want to hear that now. DJ RASHAD Definitely. That’s what I was talking about earlier. That was the thing, we
can just express ourselves and do whatever we want. There’s no limit to this shit, you can do whatever you want. That’s what I do. Everybody else I listen to just do their own thing. DJ SPINN Definitely. We all take elements from other music. Nobody made the first note or anything, so it’s been around for a hundred thousand years. Everybody’s just taking
pieces of music and forming it to make their own. I feel it’s all important.
With juke and footwork I feel there’s no boundaries. We can touch on any
aspect of music, from jazz to soul, rock to classical, and just throw some
bass behind that shit. For real. Not in a shitty way, but in a way, if you do
it right and correct. Same with anything you do – it ain’t what you do but how
you do it. AUDIENCE MEMBER Do you guys get into lower tempos anymore? DJ RASHAD Like 140? AUDIENCE MEMBER Like 130, where you go back down to house tempos? DJ RASHAD We’ve got that coming out too. Same kind of style, but just slower. That
should be hitting next year, in January. Audience Member Two things, really. First, I wondered if we could hear some of the new music
that you’re doing. But secondly, I just want to know if there’s any girls doing
juke or involved in the scene at all. I’ve seen the videos with the girls hip-rolling, but aside from that, is there any place for females in juke? DJ RASHAD Of course. We’ve got DJ Jana
Rush, Jlin coming out on Bangs & Works 2. Nightwave over there
and Nguzunguzu over here.
Menace. DJ SPINN That’s what we want, we want more people to be… DJ RASHAD We want people to be involved and just doing their thing. But there’s definitely girl dancers, too. I don’t think it’s a male thing, if you’ve got it you’ve got it. Audience Member And some new tunes, can we hear? DJ RASHAD Yeah, we’re gonna close out with a mix. They asked us to do a mix, so we’re
gonna do a mix out. Shall we do it now? [long pause] DJ SPINN No more questions? I’m curious if anyone else is curious. AUDIENCE MEMBER I’m just wondering if you ever have access to or were listening to music from
Europe, the UK, or any other tunes coming from somewhere else? DJ SPINN That’s like what I was saying earlier when we went to Seattle and that was our first experience hearing dubstep. And we heard it the proper way to hear it, on bass, your whole back just like, “What? Shit,
what is this? I don’t even know what this shit is, but it makes me feel like
where I’m from.” Music is a feeling, but in the last four or five years we’ve
been dibbling and dabbling. DJ RASHAD Before that, we weren’t too hip to what was going on in Europe. AUDIENCE MEMBER What about younger producers in Chicago who are also making footwork? Who’s
coming up? DJ RASHAD DJ Earl from Ghetto Tekz, DJ Manny from Ghetto Tekz. Who else we got? DJ SPINN Just to say, it don’t really have to do with age. You could be 30 years old
and still young when it comes to producing. There’s a lot of guys. DJ RASHAD There’s a lot of guys, it ain’t just guys in our crew. We’ve got Young Smoke
coming out on Bangs & Works 2. DJ SPINN Jlin. DJ RASHAD I already said that. [laughs] Nah, I’m just fucking with you, man. AUDIENCE MEMBER The issue of respect has come up a few times. Do you feel like you’re earning
it back home? DJ RASHAD Are you talking about Ghetto Tekz versus BOTC? AUDIENCE MEMBER Just in general. For younger cats, for dudes still stuck in Chicago, you are some of the only guys – or one of the few – that have been able to branch out and
leave Chicago. You guys are playing all over the place. DJ RASHAD We already had the respect. As far as sound goes, Chicago is always
representing for us. Of course, you’ve got haters, but it never knocked us
down, it motivated us. AUDIENCE MEMBER That’s forever, that’s Chicago. DJ RASHAD That’s Chicago, home of the haters. We’re used to that. Apart from that,
Chicago has always been standing by our side and probably always will. DJ SPINN As far as the people go. Not the corporations or the radio stations or nothing. The people, they stand by us and that’s who we do it for. AUDIENCE MEMBER Production-wise, there’s a lot of sampling and samples. What about synths? DJ RASHAD We’ve got tracks with synths. Of course, because most record labels don’t want us to
sample certain records or you’ve got to get it copyrighted. So yeah, we do
have original tracks as well with no samples. AUDIENCE MEMBER What do you use to make that one track? I don’t even think it’s the final
title, iPod something. [imitates sound of record] DJ RASHAD That is Reasons and my MPC. AUDIENCE MEMBER It’s not out yet, though, right? DJ RASHAD It’s coming out in January on Lit City, Teklife Vol 1. I call that “iPod,” though. AUDIENCE MEMBER So you guys had people to look up to but nobody ever really brought you in or
whatever. For the younger producers, do they come to your house and use your
MPC? I’m just curious how it works. DJ RASHAD Yeah, pretty much. They’ll be in the studio with us. But when they’re not they use
FruityLoops, they work off that. But matter of fact, Earl and Manny will be on
tour out here next month. Or it’s in November now? So the younger guys are
touring, everything’s going good. Hopefully, we’ll get more younger cats coming out in the future. DJ SPINN That’s up to them, though. We’re too old to be hanging out with shorties. We
don’t got patience. AUDIENCE MEMBER Since the music has taken off in Chicago a lot, has the dancing scene got bigger? Are
there more people going to the footwork events? Do you see bigger crowds? Or is
it still just like a small community thing? DJ RASHAD It got bigger but over the years some people quit, some came back, there’s
always new groups. But it has been bigger. AUDIENCE MEMBER It’s got more international attention, people watching these YouTube clips all
over the world. I’m wondering if people look at that. DJ SPINN It’s up to us to keep the party going. It’s kind of hard when you’re dealing
with real life, when you’ve got kids or your girl. And life. You’ve got to work,
you’ve got to make money. If music isn’t making money for you, you’ve got to
do something. So to stay off the streets, I make sure I make my music work for
me, somehow, some way. So I’m gonna be DJing every week, making tracks, making
it happen. We’ve got to keep the events going. It’s up to us to really do it.
Nobody else comes to Chicago and really does the events, and if they do do it,
they really cheat the kids. They cheat them out of their money. It’s been done years and years over. Once
something gets popular, they see it coming. DJ RASHAD They try to capitalize on it. We’re not here to take money from the kids,
that’s the whole point. The money we take, once it ends it goes back to them
for whoever wins the battle. It’s only $5. DJ SPINN Five dollars to get in and then you add that up. DJ RASHAD Two hundred-odd people. DAVIDE BORTOT In terms of the more established industry, a lot of these new styles that pop up,
it’s just a natural thing for them to cross over to the mainstream industry.
So you see so many people rapping over dubstep beats now. Jay-Z, Kanye, they
have to have a dubstep beat in a way, it’s predictable. Is that something you’d
like to do, produce the next Kanye beat, something like that? DJ RASHAD & DJ Spinn Hell yeah! DAVIDE BORTOT I’m kind of surprised ‘cause you’re not even doing too many remixes. There’s a couple, but I would expect shit-loads of people to be asking you for remixes. DJ SPINN We get a lot of new artists. People under the radar but they blowing up. We pay attention to that because we’re those same guys. We had to stay in the
background for a long time. We still on our way up, so I root for those guys. I root for the underdogs. I want to give them a track. All right, you can’t afford it but I see potential
in you. It’s good turning it into a hit record, just something, being
successful and not a failure. DAVIDE BORTOT In terms of producing other music, you touched on that before briefly. It’s
maybe a natural thing for an artist to do an album, maybe something like that.
Of course, all these tracks are made for the club, battles, dancing. Is that
something you can see yourself doing – just forget about all that and sit down
and produce an album? DJ RASHAD I could definitely see myself doing that. That’s something I want to do, I want to
move onto something else, hopefully I’ll get the opportunity. I wish these
rappers would hit me up already. I had to wait on Ludacris for three years already.
Shit. [laughs] No, it’d be dope if I could produce for one of those rappers
or an R&B singer, anybody. DJ SPINN Instead of stealing their track, sampling it up, really get them to come in. You gotta say one line, that’s it man. Or just send it to me, email it. Thank you. DAVIDE BORTOT In terms of this whole thing of people picking it up and paying attention, as
the originators of this whole movement, do you sometimes feel you have the responsibility
to slow it down in a way? A lot of these things get rinsed by the media.
Everybody had their footwork article, all the magazines did that. Some guys might
have a footwork remix on the B-side or iTunes bonus. So do you feel you have
to slow it down a bit just to make it more consistent and also to be around in
years to come? DJ SPINN I feel like we don’t have enough releases out. We’ve got so many tracks. I just want to put the music out and let people hear it. But at the same time, we don’t
want it to get commercialised and people be saying, “Fuck juke!” We do this,
this is our life, juke life, tek life. The majority of my life, I’ve been DJing and producing, so it’s my life. AUDIENCE MEMBER There was a moment when juke was popping off in early 2000 when they were
trying to take it to the next step. Even when it was big, it was big for us,
but not for anybody else. I knew it was a Chicago thing, but not that it was
just a Chicago thing. When I left… DJ RASHAD That’s when you noticed, right? AUDIENCE MEMBER “Juke.” “What?” “You know, juke, 150, 140 BPM.” They’re like, “What are you talking about?” They had no idea and this was just a couple of years ago. Wasn’t there a moment when Gant-Man was asked to do a remix? DJ SPINN He did get asked to do a remix for Beyoncé. AUDIENCE MEMBER A juke remix, right? I’ll have to check up on that shit. That’s about as big
as potential commercial appeal got, right? That was the apex. DJ RASHAD At the time, yes. DJ SPINN It didn’t get any promotion, a lot of people didn’t even know that track came
out. AUDIENCE MEMBER To take it to the next level, commercially speaking, you just need a vocalist
to co-sign it basically. DJ RASHAD Pretty much. That’s what we’re waiting on. [laughs] AUDIENCE MEMBER Instead of sampling, do like an original, juke-inspired footwork track with a
rapper or a singer. That’d be dope. DJ RASHAD Yeah, that’s what we’re waiting on, man. DJ SPINN Soulja Boy or someone, he’d be perfect to get on a juke track and spread the
word. For real. DAVIDE BORTOT What happened to the whole Detroit connection? You mentioned before you went
there and were inspired by what was going on there at the time. They had their
juke going on. It’s not too far from Chicago, but what happened to the
connection? It seems the connection was always there for the last 20 years, but it seems to have died with this thing. DJ RASHAD I don’t know, my connection’s still strong with Detroit. I still talk to the
same people. Chicago and Detroit, there was kinda like a beef between them with the
rappers. With house too, like who started house? Who started techno first?
But I never had that problem with any of the guys from Detroit. I never looked at that beef anyway, and we were in Detroit from 2002 to 2008, every year for def. I
don’t know why the connection fell off to tell you the truth, but our connection is still there. DAVIDE BORTOT Is there a dancing scene in Detroit? DJ RASHAD I’m not even sure, bro. Last time I heard about Detroit dancing was Chicago
versus Detroit, and that was ‘08. That was the last time I was out there, so I
don’t know. Something I need to check up on. But to my knowledge, I don’t know, I think so. I hope so. DJ SPINN Yeah, gas been too high to be riding back and forth from Detroit to Chicago too. Straight up. [laughs]