Goldie

Torsten Schmidt

Would you join me please and welcome at ease, the man like Goldie.

[Applause]

Goldie

Yeah, it’s a privilege to be here, because on and off the record, at the end of the day, music is the one thing that keeps us together. And for me, in the last 15, 20 years, as far as I’m concerned, art and music has kept me going and kept me alive. I want to go through a playlist of what inspired me, in terms of music, and what got me to where I am now, as far as music’s concerned. Some of the music is quite dynamic in terms of influence for me. It’s almost like leftfield… my music influences are completely leftfield, and that’s almost misunderstood a lot of the time.

Torsten Schmidt

Well, I guess we are going to get into that a lot later, getting larger than life and how you live your life while you do that. But I see you already pulled something off and probably for everyone to get eased into this, why not start with a piece of music and what does it mean to you?

Goldie

This is a track by Pat Metheny called “Are You Going With Me?,” and in terms of arrangement and dynamic this track is what taught me fundamentally how to arrange music, totally, unbelievably.

Torsten Schmidt

Obviously, this whole place is about learning, and we like to learn from the best ideally, but in learning it’s almost like you need to learn how to learn from people?

Goldie

Well, for me art generally is a thing where it was always like vicariously living through other people, as far as learning how to engineer and how to produce tracks. And engineers tend to stay in front of a screen, and they don’t see the arrangement or the path. They stay on one screen and they stay, very fundamentally, right upfront with the technology. And for me, it was like having a juxtaposition, where I can stand away from people and have an idea and put that idea into method and into technique. And for me, it was always about trying to get the best out of everyone that I work with.

Torsten Schmidt

Within European traditions there’s this notion of the artist being also a craftsman. Now, you’ve been a craftsman in a lot of other disciplines before… Perhaps you could elaborate a bit on what those disciplines were?

Goldie

For me, I went to New York in ’86 and I saw subway art, like most of us have seen subway art. And subway art blew me away, as far as graffiti was concerned. I understood graffiti as far as the letter form was concerned, but the social message was really important to me – these ghettos in New York and the pressure of people going there and the whole thing with reflecting that in the UK of what that was about. And for me, it was no longer about writing your name, it was about the whole kind of letter form, and how that transcended in the UK. And looking at writers early on, like TATS Cru, and seeing writers and that energy they had, I wanted to be part of something. It wasn’t socially the same thing here in the UK. I wanted to paint, I wanted to paint and I wanted to do all these things.

But, as far as graffiti was concerned, it was a major influence on my life. In a lot of ways, when you paint graffiti and you look at the outline, the background, the colors – it’s the same with music for me. The same method, light color to dark color all the way down, looking at a painting sideways. That learned me a lot about art replacing letter form, replacing the archetype of a painting. Before graffiti came along it was like a cow in a field or the Gainsborough picture. It was a subject matter, a figure. And graffiti, even now, the letter form replaced the character. And even in advertising that’s a really big thing now, as far as all these icons we see around, whether it’s Coca-Cola or Adidas or whatever. Letter form has replaced that method, and for me I kind of picked up that really early on, loving the art and loving the way that I could transcend the style of the street and how to say what you wanted to say in letter form.

Torsten Schmidt

And when you start writing, not in a typing sense but more in the throw-up kind of thing, you do have to get your mind into that space where you need to step away from the 2D to the 3D – not only that, but looking at things from all sorts of different angles.

Goldie

I think graffiti as a 2D thing taught people how to be three- dimensional. Within that there was an [MC Escher quality], and it’s the same with music. There’s a certain Escher [quality] with music. We have the technology, we have the ideal, and it’s the last ten years that technology has really allowed us to execute all those kinds of things. Graffiti is a primal thing, one aerosol can, and that one aerosol can could translate to so much as far as execution. And I think that as far as the Escher [quality] that was developed, as far as that’s concerned, it was really important the way you could see the development you could have – you could get from one point to another. Letter form has been here for 600-700 years as far as we’ve been here in terms of bending the letters and bending the form. In drum & bass, we did the same with music, we’ve bent the form of music.

Torsten Schmidt

You’ve called it “the bastard child of other musics” before, but to a certain degree, a lot of the music that we’d been dancing to before were a little bit more 2D. Let’s say, the interesting fact about a Chicago house track of the Larry Heard variety is, with a really simple format, all of a sudden he opens up this vast space and covers that and pulls you into it and takes you into through places.

Goldie

I think house music, as far as I’m concerned, I was never really into it when it first was here in the UK. I felt we were the bastard child of the generation, because we were looking at European sounds and rave sounds, and we had breakbeat as far as hip-hop was concerned. And for me, I think the UK – where it’s situated – a lot of us got fed up with the rap kind of thing and we buried ourselves in the sound and I think... [mobile phone starts ringing in audience]

Torsten Schmidt

Who wants to die now?

Goldie

Are you in? Are you there? As far as house music was concerned, I was never there from the beginning. I think drum & bass took the fundamental things, like rave sound and breakbeat, and we married that and it was the bastard child, as far as I’m concerned. Because guys that were into house weren’t really looking at what we were doing. They thought, “You can’t do that,” and there were all these rules within music, and I think this kind of music, we’ve almost pigeonholed ourselves because drum & bass essentially was the offspring. It was cast down. It was bad, you can’t go out, it was trouble, clubs, bad Es, drugs, whatever it is. But still, if you think about it in as much as the energy that that music had, it was phenomenal. For me, early on, coming from hip-hop and coming back to the UK, and seeing the way that this sound had transformed because it’s like, I’m part of drum & bass and I haven’t created that, it’s already been there. The thing about drum & bass is that you join the train and you’re already on the carriage, and there are five carriages before you that you see where the music has already developed. I think drum & bass has kind of peaked and gone the other way, but I think that, essentially, it’s a very big part of our social scene, as far as Europe, America, whatever. It’s still a very big part of us.

Torsten Schmidt

I don’t know how familiar everyone is with that part of the bio, because it’s incredibly well documented, but could you give us the CliffsNotes on why you were coming back from the UK? Where did you go in the first place?

Goldie

I went to New York very early on to pursue graffiti. A guy called Brim Fuentes was a guy who came to the UK, and he invited me there to go to New York, and I went and stayed with him. I was in Miami when house music started to break here, and for me, coming back to the UK and seeing this really underground thing that was happening… I came back and wanted to be part of that. I couldn’t do hip-hop the way people did hip-hop, it wasn’t part of my social stance. So, there was this real vibrant underground, and I think we all go through the stage where we go out and we rave and we hear a tune that really hurts us or really affects our soul. I went out to Rage and I heard this sound, and for me it was overwhelming: the power of this sound and just seeing mostly the cross genre of all these different people, black, white, mixed-race, all these guys, girls, just raving hard. It was a very rebellious state of England at that time. I was in New York when acid house came out, and when I came back it had already transformed into something else. It’s something that I can’t really explain. It completely changed my life to come back and hear this sound… Even in America, you go and DJ there and it’s not the same thing as the fabric of the UK. The UK fabric, as far as underground sound is concerned, drum & bass is part of the fabric. New York has hip-hop, we have drum & bass. There’s many tiers that have spiraled out of that and made other things, but for me it’s a very fundamental sound that is responsible for a lot of change.

Torsten Schmidt

There’s too many roads to go down through now but let’s stay at the chronological one. When the person that took you to Rage that night told me about the story and how you met another person there and told them you wanted to do this music… I think other people may be interested in hearing how your reactions were?

Goldie

OK, into the nitty-gritty. I met Kemi in Camden High Street at Red or Dead… I used to get a bike and ride down Camden High Street and go by this shoe store, and see Kemi. You know… blonde locks, she’s fit, you know? I went there and I asked her out on a date and she said, “I don’t want to go on a date but I’ll take you to a rave.” And I was “hip-hop, New York,” giving it the big one, big leather jacket, and she took me to my first ever rave. I went to Rage and queued up there with her, and I remember watching her dance and just watching everyone, lasers going around.

It was a very fundamental thing for me, because Kemi changed my life in terms of music. She wanted to be a DJ, I wanted to produce music. We used to get an Amstrad system, two systems and try and mix on two decks, completely out of time. I used to go and buy music on a Saturday morning and go back there and try to mix… I couldn’t mix to save my life, you know? But I wanted to produce music, and they encouraged me to go into the studio and make music. So, I got my money, I hustled and went to William Orbit’s studio, hired the room, went to Reinforced and said, “I want to make an EP.” They were just laughing at me, you know? “You can’t do it.” And I just went away, paid my money, went into the studio, got my favorite records and I sampled every record and just looped everything and put it together and went back there with this EP and it was Rufige Kru’s “Krisp Biscuit.”

And for me, I always wanted Kemi and Storm to play the music, and I wanted to be the producer. I was living the dream. We used to go to the record shop every Saturday morning and we would wait for three hours to see the DJ. We used to wait for three hours just to see Grooverider coming into the record shop, and we’d just wait for hours to get a glimpse of a DJ.

Torsten Schmidt

And what would be the common reaction from him?

Goldie

He wouldn’t say anything. He’d go in and get his records and leave. You’d be like, “I saw Grooverider today!” [Laughter] Seriously. It took me about a year to meet him and shake his hand and it was in the back of Music Power, this record shop. He used to drive around the back and come in the back to get his records and we used to watch him. I used to time it to run out the front, run around the back, just to catch him leaving in his car. Seriously. And that’s really the reason why I made Rufige Kru’s “Terminator,” because I wanted to change music. I wanted to do something to hurt him, basically. I got six Es, got off my tits, and made “Terminator” basically.

Torsten Schmidt

As you do.

Goldie

As you do. I got his number from a guy called Chris at the record shop, and I phoned him up and he was playing at Donington Raceway. I called him and said, “I’ve got something that’s going to change everything,” and I put the phone down. I was giving him the big one. It took me about three weeks to get the record to him, but he phoned me up and he said, “That’s fucking dark,” and for me it was a big shout, you know?

Torsten Schmidt

He was the one who played it for one-and-a-half years until it came out?

Goldie

He played it for about a year and the first time he played it in Rage it was me and Doc Scott and he played “Dark Angel” [by Nasty Habits] that Scott had given me the week before. He played “Terminator” into “Dark Angel,” and me and Scott were sitting on a podium, E’d off our nuts, and I went, “I recognize that sound.” And he goes, “I recognize it, too, but it’s not my tune.” I went, “But it’s not mine either.” And Grooverider had put these two tunes together and it was heinous, this heinous mix and it was the best thing that had ever happened to me. Complete euphoria and everyone didn’t dance, everyone was standing there. Everyone walked off the floor and no one danced to it. I went to the DJ booth and went, “Oh, fuck me, it’s a shit tune.” And he went, “Don’t worry, give it some time. Just give ’em time.” And Groove was always pushing the fact that it’s new, don’t worry about it… in time. And eventually, a year after that people started dancing to it.

Torsten Schmidt

I remember that kind of polka dance? This might be the time where we should probably play it.

Goldie

I actually haven’t got it.

Torsten Schmidt

Shall we try and see whether we got an internet connection?

Goldie

Has anyone else got it?

Torsten Schmidt

Ah, Emma is going to save the day. She’s going to get it. Anyway, it came out on Reinforced, and speaking on the subject of meeting people, can you recall meeting Dego and Marc?

Goldie

Dego and Marc, the first time I met them was at the Astoria, and they were doing a PA with Manix. I went there with Kemi and I went there to see them with Nebula II at the time. I saw the PA for about an hour, and it blew my mind. The set-up was keyboards, DAT, playing a few sounds. It was kind of basic, but it was a really big thing seeing these guys on stage. Manix at the time were really huge. They were causing a lot of storm on the underground and Nebula II, especially, they did a thing called “Seance” and “Atheama” was a really big tune. Those kinds of tunes at the time were getting a lot of underground play, but not really mainstream play… Really underground.

Torsten Schmidt

Probably those categories were slightly different then because, I mean, even with an underground record you could sell how much? How much did “Terminator” sell?

Goldie

Back then, “Terminator” I think was about 10,000 at the time but Nebula II, before that, had sold about 15-20,000 records on the underground.

Torsten Schmidt

I mean, Jay Z sells less albums in Europe these days.

Goldie

That was the year of the white label, where white labels could really sell. We don’t really sell records anymore. The whole premise has changed, as far as vinyl sales is concerned, but then it was a really big thing for us, underground records on vinyl.

Torsten Schmidt

Thanks for Detroit for saving the day. We’re getting close.

(music: Rufige Kru – “Terminator II Remix”)

Goldie

It’s nothing on the original. What can I say?

Torsten Schmidt

Who else was part of Rufige Kru?

Goldie

A guy called Linford, who was from Plumstead and he was the DJ that had every break on vinyl. He was my inspiration, really. He would loop breaks and had a record collection that was killer. We’d go through breaks, sample all his collection. Linford, for me, was a kind of guy that had all the breaks and was fundamental as far as my process was concerned, because I used to sample for hours on end taking loops, breaks from Can, Talking Heads, we’d take loads and loads of stuff for months and months. But he was an inspiration for me because Linford was kind of hip-hop but not really getting the breaks as far as a hip-hop DJ was concerned, and he fell into drum & bass the same way as I did, he just kind of fell in love with it.

Torsten Schmidt

Well, with your hip-hop background, it would be nice to picture how the hunt for breaks was a slightly different game, whereas now you can just call up your mates and get the 200 biggest breaks ever on your hard drive or USB stick…

Goldie

Searching for breaks then, it was the hunt. “Terminator” was “Funky Drummer,” as simple as you like, but it was that basic. As far as UK drum & bass was concerned, “Amen Brother” has been caned and rinsed. But we were always trying to search for different loops. I think Tom & Jerry, Dego and Marc, really experimented with a lot of different kind of breaks… that was the main influence really for me.

Torsten Schmidt

On the Rufige Kru edge, there was also another track that you dedicated to Kemistry as well. Wasn’t “Sinister” part of that as well?

(music: Goldie – “Kemistry”)

So, did you learn about etiquette when working with others because obviously there is a little bit of ego as well in all this?

Goldie

Well, not really. I think it’s about being able to get out of others what you, you know… an engineer who stands in front of a screen, as far as I’m concerned, it’s about creating and taking something different out of them. As far as being a producer is concerned, it’s different. Everyone is an engineer but as far as being a producer is concerned you have to be able to almost wipe the slate clean and get something different to what they would normally do. For me, the ideals and having a different perspective – because graffiti had taught me about arrangement and how to plan color and the whole kind of piece. For me, it was about working with these people and getting out of them what they want as far as creating a sound.

Nowadays, it’s very, very difficult for anyone to engineer and produce with an engineer because I think that everyone’s in the mainstream of being an engineer, and sometimes you get lost in the science of it. For me, it was about the faith in the music, almost trying to get something out of them they might not necessarily do. That’s always been my attitude to getting stuff out and putting all these sounds in a sampler, getting what you want, laying out everything you want in terms of sound, arrangement, color. I used to fill up samplers all the time, fill up two samplers at the same time, fill them, no more memory left, because I’d fill them with all the ideas that I wanted.

A lot of people found that very difficult, but I would navigate my way around that… 98% of the music I made, there was probably 2% of samples that I wouldn’t use, because I knew what I wanted to do, and that from a conceptual point of view was important for me. For me, it was like, “You have one shot at it, you work with an engineer and have one chance to go in and do what you want to do.” There was no chance of failure, you had to go in there and deliver. I think that’s kind of like the B-boy mentality as far as I was concerned. It was always trying to give it 120% effort and sometimes, from that perspective, the engineer gets something out of it and you get something out of it, and those two things manifest themselves and someone that’s right next to the screen realizes that this is something completely different.

Like with Rob Playford, a genius engineer, complete genius, with Rob it was like I always saw this technical guy right against the screen. For me, it was trying to get him away from the screen to see the long track and not just the square screen and I think art taught me that. And with Rob, Rob would always say, “No, we can’t do that, it’s impossible,” and I would say, “We can do that, we can,” and we’d push the boundaries of electronic music. At the time, it was always trying to push the boundaries of the music and what you can do and what you can’t do. A lot of engineers are like, “You can’t do this with the music,” and I’d be like, “Have you tried it?” And that’s what I brought to the table, knowing that I have an idea and executing the idea.

Torsten Schmidt

How do you develop the language, though? Because obviously you’re coming from whole different mindsets here, the more geeky approach of living inside the square, the box, and then the more artist type of view?

Goldie

OK, I’ll kind of show you… [walks over to whiteboard, starts drawing] I’d be like, “Today I want to do a track and I’d do a track and go [Drawing] “Here’s a track, here’s breaks, here’s the falls on the pads,” or change the time signature here… I’d put the bassline in there, I’d switch it up here. And I’d draw the track out for the engineer. I’d draw the diagram for what I wanted to do. They’d look at this square here and me, I was always looking beyond that, the whole storyline of the tune was what I was concerned with, and a lot of people don’t look at this side of it. For me, it was arrangement, color, texture. I’d get effects and put effects here, put the breaks here, drop out here, and I would meticulously draw things out because that was my language. With Rob Playford it took a while for him to do that, but they become familiar with your techniques. With Rob, especially, he kind of had my language, it was a code that I used. Even with Marc and Dego, we had our own language as far as translating the music and that was really important for me.

Torsten Schmidt

Obviously, that marriage with Rob was an extremely fruitful one with delivering one of the – how do you want to call it? – milestone albums of our culture there. Did you ever regret not doing the second one with him too?

Goldie

I think it was like Rob was going in another direction. He wanted to do library music and other things but Rob as a producer was concerned, Rob never produced his own music. I always told him, “You should produce your own music.” 2 Bad Mice were there, Sean and Keith were always pushing him, but he was never really producing his own music. Whereas, Dego and Mark were producers in their own right. For me, it was like, “If you can do this, you can do it on your own,” but that’s just his way of doing things. For me, it was kind of sad we never made the second album together. But, as far as Rob’s concerned, he is a genius as an engineer, but I always felt he could deliver himself, but he never wanted to do that. He never wanted to produce music, which I kind of found baffling really why he never wanted to that.

Torsten Schmidt

Probably, to set the record straight, I remember pretty vividly you being down at the club night Speed and after everyone had an opinion of like, “Oh gosh, they didn’t do [Timeless] together, what could have happened if they had?” And wild speculations. And you were just going, “This man did at least 60% of that album. At least.” And he so cutely blushed and was like, “Hmmm.”

Goldie

What it is with Rob, he was the kind of guy that… “Timeless” [the title track] was going to be 15 minutes, and I just pushed it to be 22 minutes long, and I remember doing the “Jah” part at the back, which is kind of like a humble “thank you to God” almost, that section of the record. But he never wanted to do it. He was always pushing the technique, but he never wanted to do that. I felt very difficult with Rob because, conceptually, he never wanted to take the music any further. For me, it was always trying to push it. From an engineering point of view, he was a complete genius, but I wanted him to do more. But he didn’t want to do that. But Rob’s got his own journey, you know?

Torsten Schmidt

Speaking of the journey, I guess this is a very good jump off for playing what was considered at the time the What’s Going On of the ’90s with “Inner City Life.”

(music: Goldie – “Inner City Life”)

Goldie

No one would ever want to play it on the radio. Kiss FM would not play the record, and I found it very difficult, because when you look at it conventionally, it’s a good record. But then it was completely out of sorts, and I found that very difficult as far as Timeless was concerned. Timeless was made first and then “Inner City Life” came out of it, and I always found it very difficult that no one wanted to play it on radio and didn’t want to give it the air time.

Torsten Schmidt

I think I was about 19, 20 when that came out and just started writing, and it was probably one of the first incidents when I learned how stupidly major record labels work, because I think I got about eight to ten vinyl copies of that as a white label promo. Like ten records to one person alone, how stupid is that?

Goldie

Well, I never got them. Sell me one if you can. It was the mechanism as far as majors was concerned, I wasn’t really ready for that. Roni Size did a remix, Peshay did a remix, and as far as I was concerned, it was about trying to keep the underground movement going and keep people in tune with it. Believe it or not, I never really liked a lot of the mixes, but funnily enough Gilles Peterson called me about six months ago and he played me a jazz version of it, which blew my mind. It’s a guy called Matthias Voigt and I’ll play this to you because it’s pretty good.

(music: re:Jazz – “Inner City Life”)

Goldie

The thing about this, what I really loved the most, was because after all that time trying to get mixes and whatever else of this, this came to me from a completely other place that was so organically original. I’ve always found with this music we can remake it and do all these different things but the thing about it is the power of it is so strong, to hear that version so many years after the original came out kind of made me realize how important the music really is. Matthias Voigt, I called him up on a Sunday night and said, “That’s just remarkable, this other mix,” and Gilles Peterson was the one who turned me onto that. It’s almost as if, as far as music’s concerned, especially in the last ten years, there’s nothing that really changes my perspective and that’s the mix I would have wanted in the end but it came to me in another perspective. Jhelisa Anderson, who’s singing on that, was originally going to be the singer for Timeless, but we crossed paths and it never happened. And she did it purposely because she was in New Orleans at the time, and we never hooked up and she was originally going to sing Timeless. She came back and did that, and that’s really important for me. She did it in the end, in her own way.

Torsten Schmidt

It kind of reminds me, without taking anything away from them with what they’ve done with that version, I guess around about the time you did your second album Saturnz Return there was this longing in a lot of drum & bass, like, “OK, we’ve done the AKAIs, we’ve done the EMUs, and now we want to do real music,” and everyone and their mum got a real bass player and Rhodes galore and yadda, yada, yadda. How did you feel about that?

Goldie

I think music generally always imitated a lot of sound. For me, it was always getting players in to do things, like Tim da Bass, Justina Curtis, Cleveland Watkiss. It was really important for me to venture to the music that I really love because in hindsight, when I look at the music that I love that I’ve had in my mind for 30, 40 years, I’m completely different from what people expect me to be. For me, it was getting to that common ground of what I like to do myself. For me, doing “Mother” was completely slated, it was my own journey. And as far as a second album was concerned, the record company wanted one thing and I wanted something completely different. It was commercial suicide, if you like. But for me it was what I had to do for my own journey. Working with real players and people I really respected. For me, it was a chance to manifest this sound that was me experiencing Miles Davis or Charles Mingus, it was touching on that slightly.

Torsten Schmidt

How do you excel over that part when you’re in your group of peers and you’ve got these visions, like doing a track like “Mother?” I remember more than one person going, “Goldie’s lost his marbles?”

Goldie

I know. For me, “Mother” was very self-indulgent, but at the end of the day it’s a very beautiful thing for me to be able to do that. My relationship with mother Earth, my own mother, that was really important for my journey. I wear my heart on my sleeve, everyone knows that, and for me that album got completely slated. But “Mother,” if you take away the strings, it’s drum & bass. If you take away the drum & bass, it’s classical. To me, it was marrying these two things completely, and not a lot of people got that, and it was very important for me to do that.

Torsten Schmidt

When you say you wear your heart on your sleeve, obviously you make yourself incredibly vulnerable. Now, you don’t exactly strike me like the most vulnerable guy on earth, but there’s a little bit of a tender soul in there, and you’re incredibly open with that and sometimes probably not.

Goldie

How can I explain? “Mother,” as far as I’m concerned, after it was finished, I couldn’t listen to it. For about three months I could not listen to it. I don’t expect any of you to listen to it. But what I expect is that for one time in your life when you go through music and you have these wormholes of music, and you go through and travel as a producer, for me “Mother” was a very fundamental thing. It wasn’t trying to sell an album and make Timeless 2, but it was one of those things that my relationship with my mother is a really important thing, and I never had that kind of communication with my mother. So, I wanted to make something that she would ultimately let go. And when I played it to my mum she cried for hours, we cried for hours together. Call it what you like, but it was universally dealing with entity, infinity, gas, air, water, all the elements, the womb, growing up, the child, separation. I can go through it as a picture in the same way that is – and I don’t expect anyone to get that, but what I expect is you should respect what I’m trying to do.

Torsten Schmidt

How do you get past that point when you grow up in a culture that’s celebrating some weird notion of cool, and then you go into this? You put yourself into that spot where you have to open up yourself that way where cool is the farthest thing.

Goldie

I think for me at the time, I was a media whore, “Goldie’s on every magazine cover in Europe,” and so on. For me, the ’90s was about if you’re going to be a character, this music, if you’re going to put it out there, I wanted to be the guy that went out there and shoved it down every throat. Your mum’s got the record, you’re on every washing up liquid box, whatever, I would really try and push that. It was almost as if the music did the opposite of what I was portrayed as in the press and the media.

That’s kind of really like stabbing yourself in the heart and saying, “Well, fuck it.” But for me there was no choice. “Mother,” I knew from the minute I started it, it was going to be the end as far as record company, next album, deals, whatever else. But, when I look back on that as a process and a healing process for me, it is the most beautiful thing I’ve ever done even to this day. To me it’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever done in my life. I’ll give you a little snatch of it. Not the whole 60 minutes. Give it five minutes of your time.

(music: Goldie – “Mother”)

Goldie

I wanted to create a place where you were unsure of what you were getting. And for me, it was the universe, as far as I’m concerned. Infinity. The sound of something that’s before us and that’s mother. This part of the tune for me was about being in the womb, arriving in the womb. But when I was in the studio doing this I actually had two microphones set up and I had butane gas and I was in between the mics with a towel over my fucking head, gas and air, choking myself. This part of the tune was like birth for me. It was conception time when my mother and father met and they conceived me. It was this particular time. And there you go. For me, it was the introduction as far as tolerating sound as far as the first album, second album. For me people were really expecting and they couldn’t deal with it. I found it very difficult to deal with it. If you think about recordable audio for a track that’s an hour long, from a construction point of view, there were like seven hours behind it to force the whole issue for an hour, and it’s a very difficult process for me.

Torsten Schmidt

How did you organize the process?

Goldie

I had Cubase and Logic running and linked together and I had a JP9000 desk with 72 tracks full, 48 tracks of tape full.

Torsten Schmidt

It’s so prog rock.

Goldie

Yeah. I mean, yeah. For me, I had engineers running like mayhem around like I was a madman, and I drew the whole track out on the wall before I even fucking started it. Alchemy is one of the things that I try to do in my life. That’s probably the best example of that, trying to put all these people together technically and try to get something completely organic happening.

I woke up one night, off my tits as usual, I woke up and I just had this thing in my head just going “mother.” It was constantly in my head, I could not get rid of it, and that’s how I began the whole process. When I make music it’s almost as if I make music inserted. I don’t make it from the beginning, I insert the idea, and the “mother” hook just came to me and I inserted that. And for me it was the journey. A lot of people at the time were saying, “It’s not a drum & bass track,” and I was saying, “Well, go to the center, for three minutes, and there’s your drum & bass track. If you want a loop, there’s the loop.” And it was a very difficult process in terms of really getting something that would motivate my soul. I don’t even know sometimes how I could get an hour-long track to comprehend that. But it was a process of all these engineers. Optical was on it, Dillinja was on it, and for me, they were all thinking I was mad, and probably so. But it’s something that I think I’m trying to make something that in years to come we might look back on and say, “Well, that’s kind of cool.”

Torsten Schmidt

Do you think a completely happy person with a happy upbringing can make any relevant art?

Goldie

Difficult. I wasn’t that happy. I guess my music’s sad. Music is a certain sadness in my life and a joy in my life, and I’m probably the guy that should go in the corner and stand over there for a while, while everyone else chills out and has a good time. For me, that’s my experience of music, and I don’t expect everyone to dig it. There’s a thing on the album, which I did call “The Dream Within,” which for me fundamentally is the best song I’ve ever made in my life and I’ll play that to you. I can’t really explain it. It’s sad, it’s melancholy, but for me that’s my life.

Torsten Schmidt

Obviously, people do have totally different notions of the various shades of one’s character, and every slightly sane person harbors at least two or three slightly different natures within them, and it’s interesting how music serves as some sort of diary. And especially, once you’ve done a few pieces and you play them back to yourself in an enclosed environment, you start to realize, “Oh, am I really that kind of a moody [guy] in the end?”

Goldie

Not at all. For me, it’s a reflection of my soul. Simple, whether you like it or not. Everyone else can do tunes that are there in the center, and they can do all these different things. But I have my purpose in music and it’s not everyone’s thing, but for me, it’s the one thing that I know when I pass, my daughter will look at that and go, “My dad made this music.” It’s that important to me, it really is, to leave a mark in my music. It’s not what everyone likes, but it’s what I like.

Torsten Schmidt

Let me re-phrase this – why do you reckon we as humans tend to find incredible beauty in the sorrow of others or in the work that has come out of that sorrow?

Goldie

I’ve gone through my stage of making floor tunes, “Angel,” this and that. But for me, when I look at the music that’s influenced my life, it really is the kind of thing that when I go home and I listen to music, it’s ultimately I don’t listen to music so I can go into a studio and make a tune to sell records. I’ve never, ever done that, it’s never been my thing. I’ve been lucky for people to share things with and have a few dancefloor tunes and whatever else, but ultimately, music finds you. That’s the thing for me. Music has found me, whether I like it or not. I think the sorrowful songs or that kind of attitude towards music is that. I’ve found the best way of manipulating and getting something that is ultimately very deep in music and it’s not something I can actually explain. I can’t explain the way I get influenced to do that kind of thing, and I can’t explain why I make somber songs or something that makes people fall asleep or feel really sad about. I’ve had fun with music, but I have a purpose and a duty almost, it’s like duty within music to do something that no one else is really doing. Someone’s got to do it. Someone has to push the boundaries of music and I’ve found that really important.

Torsten Schmidt

We’re almost entering political ground here but with you coming from a foster care background, which in the UK I do understand is not exactly being born with a silver spoon and not the most forward-looking, encouraging system – how much potential do you reckon is there in heavily investing into taking creative outlets to these sort of environments, rather than investing it into hosting the Olympics or something?

Goldie

The care system, as I grew up in, I think there’s been less attention to that, and I think it’s really important to interact with each other organically. Technology in the last ten years is leaps and bounds, but I find that people have stopped interacting with each other socially. The internet, as far as I’m concerned, is the velvet claw. I use it for my advantage, but at the end of the day it’s still something that, when that goes down, it doesn’t mean you go down.

I really feel that if the internet goes down for a week, everyone goes mad. “We can’t log in!” It’s just completely one of those things that, socially, we’ve lost the dynamic of sharing and being organic and sharing music, and it’s one of those things that has been lost in the last ten years, I think. It’s really important people should share music and share their kind of ideals and ideas. People have become almost shy with music, almost egotistical. They want to stay in this box and don’t want to share it or record with other artists. I think we’ve become in the last ten years very, very egotistical with music. And ultimately, if you can record your friend or share music, my juxtaposition is that my difficulty is that I have to vicariously render my music through other people, and I’ve always had to do that. That’s a gift but it’s also a very difficult task to do. I think people who make music are almost segregating themselves by sharing the ideals.

More and more now, technology is advancing really quickly, but we rely on it too much. All the music that I really love and most of the music that you guys love – if you think about it, a lot of the music that exists is old music. A lot of the stuff I grew up on was before technology came into the mix, and that’s got a lot to say as far as what five tunes in your life really, really stand out for you? In years to come that you’ll play? Not what you’re making, not what’s right there in the present. What really, all of you, five tunes that you can say, “I will listen to this in ten years’ time”? I’ve been given the gift of music through hearing it in a way that’s almost as if I felt that in the response to that music that’s influenced me, I want to do my bit, put my music out there, as left-field as it is or as outrageous, or as somber or as sorrowful, for me that’s really what I want to provide.

Torsten Schmidt

At the same time, you work within a genre where it seemed to be very important to be on that next level, have the latest technology, know the latest trick. There was a cult of the new.

Goldie

That’s passed though. The eclecticism finished when Reinforced closed shop. As far as eclecticism’s concerned, we’re not in the bubble letters any more. We’ve gone through the bubble era, the wildstyle and drum & bass was one of those things that was very eclectic in the beginning and we did everything we could do with it. The DJ culture accelerated things too much as far as I’m concerned. My music wasn’t really being played on dancefloors, but it was drum & bass for home, or when you’re chilling. This music is really responsible for a lot of change in music, full stop. But we’ve fell into the same thing as far as commerciality’s concerned. This music has fell into the same category as R&B or hip-hop. It fell into the same thing where commercial records make tunes that people go for, and it’s gone to that format. Which is sad really, because it was the rebel from the outside and it’s become the same thing as far as music’s concerned.

Torsten Schmidt

You described yourself earlier as “Goldie, the media whore,” so at the same time you propelled a lot of people that were totally non-media material, because they were literally living in their bedroom studio and getting more intricate and into the finer details, and basically gave them some sort of chance to live on this stuff?

Goldie

Ultimately, it’s the family issue. For me, having family and sharing the family aspect of it. I grew up in a children’s home, where you had 25 lockers and 25 different kinds of music in each of those lockers. I’ve always tried to have the same values as far as a label’s concerned. Metalheadz, as far as I’m concerned, is a melting pot of ideals. I do think that propelling those people into that attention – they want that as well. But we have to progress in the music. They have to progress and move forward, and a lot of people never thought that drum & bass would go worldwide but is worldwide, whether you like it or not.

Torsten Schmidt

We got carried away, so we’re jumping back to “The Dream Within.”

[music: Goldie – “The Dream Within”]

Goldie

You’ll probably fall asleep to this, actually.

The way it happened, actually, quite a funny story. “Letter of Fate” was on Saturnz Return and what happened was “Letter of Fate” was a ballad and to get the effect on the vocal I had to turn the 2” tape over. So, what I did, I turned the tape over and recorded the entire vocal backwards so harmonically the vocal works from beginning to end and it was one of those things that I found. It came from a completely other place for me and it’s still now my favorite song.

Torsten Schmidt

There’s a bit of a symphonic edge to the last two or three things that you played especially, and you never really were afraid of putting yourself into different situations. Recently, you’ve been on a TV program called Maestro and I was entertained when I looked it up because obviously we only get it second hand, but the first tune that you conducted is Edward Grieg, which was the first thing that we got played in grammar school as an introduction to classical music. What do you reckon makes this so special or what did it do to you conducting this and what did you learn about that?

Goldie

To me, it was about learning the process of what a conductor does. I’ve always been fascinated by it. Classical music has always been there for 600 or 700 years, but as far as I was concerned, new music within classical music is not really getting made as much as they say it is. For me, it was learning the technique because I wanted to be able to have that power and be able to go in front of an orchestra and conduct. For me, it was really, really important to try and learn this technique so it will help my own music later on.

Torsten Schmidt

Yesterday with Gary [Bartz], we had another advocate of [classical music]… and he spoke in high terms about Beethoven. What did you learn about him?

Goldie

Beethoven, it’s a whole can of worms. Beethoven, genius. As far as the way he constructed his music, he was very, very layered, number one. I found with his music he would disguise his music and be really complex, and for me classical music was already there, but when Beethoven came along he just changed everything. He looked at what was happening at the time and went, “OK, I’m gonna change this.” The layers that he uses and the rhythms that he uses, you know, Sonata 1, it’s like a blueprint for jazz almost, because he has these really in-depth techniques and layers, which only he can do. I never used to like Beethoven at all, but in the last five years, I’ve understood his music. Phenomenal what he’s done in music.

Torsten Schmidt

Going back into, let’s say the Vienna Symphony at the time when Beethoven was still around, probably the crowd had a similar energy buzz as going down to Hoxton Square on a Sunday night.

Goldie

Beethoven, at the time, got slated. Beethoven as a human being had a really, really difficult life. The same journey his music was very, very difficult. He was tortured by his music, and I think that’s one of the things that I think that, after the event, what he’s written and done for classical music is ground breaking. But it’s one of those things that I think no one really, really understands music as much as the way that he wrote it. So many people have tried to put his music into a certain category, but everyone’s tried to feel his music and that in itself, only he knows the way that his vision was. We took Beethoven’s Number 5, and we broke it down into beats and you look at the pause bars and it’s in 4/4, right? And what happens is he has like six bars where he has six bars three different times, and the way he moves arrangement across, it’s just absolutely so genius, the way he makes his music and layers it. And for me, it was understanding the way he makes music has given me a better understanding of my own music.

Torsten Schmidt

What about the physical aspect? You are in front of an orchestra, and anyone who’s ever heard more than one upright bass, let alone a complete horn section or whatever…

Goldie

It is daunting. When you step in front of an orchestra, and it’s an 80-piece orchestra, it really is overwhelming. It’s right in your hands and you control that, and it’s very overwhelming at first when you get the sound come back at you. And not only that, it’s almost as if you have to hear the song in your head and be half a beat ahead. If you wait for the orchestra, they all slow down because you’re the leader, and the thing about that is that it’s a very difficult process. We have electronic music and we have a SMTPE, we have a timecode and we have a click. All we have to do is wrap sounds around a click. When you have live music, as far as an orchestra is concerned, it’s a different kind of thing, where you have to keep time. And the presence of the music… we take that for granted, I think. And that was one of the first things that I really realized, it’s very difficult to keep the pace of the music and the shape of the music.

Torsten Schmidt

Let’s say it’s a Sunday night and you had to choose going to see the London Symphony Orchestra at Royal Festival Hall or something, or you could see Grooverider and Randall.

Goldie

No, Doc Scott and Marcus Intalex back-to-back, anytime.

Torsten Schmidt

OK. What makes those two your choice?

Goldie

Doc Scott has always been the leader as far as I’m concerned, as far as rolling, as far as sound is concerned. Doc learnt me a lot as far as the way that he puts sound between the sound, the space. And Marcus is the same. Marcus is very underrated, I think. He sent me a thing two days ago, a thing called “4-4-2,” which is a kind of techno/dubstep tune. Marcus is very experimental, he’s not frightened to experiment. Him and Doc Scott are the forefront, as far as the new edge, as far as I’m concerned.

Torsten Schmidt

Both of them have been around for a while… ages, literally. How do you reckon you can keep that longevity going?

Goldie

Scotty is Scotty, man. He’s done everything. Musically, he’s done everything for the scene. I heard Doc Scott being played at the Eclipse and the Edge, and he was fundamental, instrumental in my own career. If it wasn’t for Scotty, I wouldn’t be here. As far as breakbeat music is concerned, he was always the cutting edge of that, and Scotty said so much without saying anything at all. He’s that kind of character. And Marcus is a new edition, almost, of Scotty. Marcus is very open-minded and when we went through the phase of music, the last three and four years, Marcus has been pushing the music where it should go.

Torsten Schmidt

Is this the time to pay respect to them in one shape or the other?

Goldie

This Marcus tune is absolutely killer.

(music: Marcus Intalex – “4-4-2”)

That’s what I like about Marcus, he’s not afraid to experiment and Marcus to me is like a forerunner, he’s like here for me as far as his music [indicates hand over his head]. It’s, like, really influential and really inspiring. You hear a Marcus tune, I’m really inspired, I wanna go and make music. He’s that kind of guy. Scotty as well. When he makes music, not of late, he hasn’t made as much music as he would in the old days, but when he does make something it stands up there. [Looks for a Doc Scott track] I’ve lost him. No Doc Scott today, I’m afraid.

Torsten Schmidt

Obviously, not everybody in this room might know these characters and you’ve been working in different disciplines of art as well, and some lessons, I guess, are to be learned from those other disciplines. What do you reckon when you have an exhibition or something and at the same time looking at someone like Damien Hirst – what can we learn in our independent music field from that kind of independent approach?

Goldie

I don’t really watch the rest of the art world. I just think that coming from graffiti, as far as I’m concerned, within your own region and your own field, you can do what you want to do. I think Damien Hirst in his own right is up there, art, whatever else. But I come from the old school, graffiti, and that in itself is just what it is. Doing gallery shows and putting paintings in galleries, for me, that’s where art and music meet. I did my first show when I was 19, and graffiti left the walls and went into galleries, and it’s just another side of expression for me. I don’t really follow trendy art, but as far as my experience in art, it’s reflective of my music and I just enjoy painting.

Torsten Schmidt

Probably a little less on the content side, but structurally, this last Sotheby’s auction was a really interesting thing, in that you got the most popular current British artist and he’s surpassing the system of galleries and all, and he just sells it directly to the consumer, which is kind of what independent labels are doing in music.

Goldie

I don’t really follow that market, but what Damien Hirst was doing in the beginning, the second or third market was where it was being sold. You couldn’t give it away in the ’80s. But that’s England for you. England has a really big way of putting artists here and then dropping them the next minute. Damien Hirst, he’s done everything possible as far as art’s concerned. I don’t follow the art market. As much as I paint, I don’t really follow the market. I like to paint and it’s the same as making music, it’s exactly the same process.

Torsten Schmidt

When you say “That’s the UK” for you, hyping you up, slowing you down again, how do you do get up again?

Goldie

That’s all you do. I mean, England’s a really, really beautiful place to live, and in the same breath it’s one of those places, which is really difficult to navigate your way around or get known or get on the scene. As long as you do to your best ability what you really want to pursue, your dream, that’s all that really matters. You could be anywhere. England, by default, puts people in this certain position. With me it was media, whatever else, but, as far as I’m concerned, you are left with the same as what you began with. As far as I’m concerned, art and music in the last 25 years has been my life, and that’s where it’s going to be. And for the rest of my life, it will be art and music. I think England has been the forerunner in terms of selling art, selling artists, selling music, and it’s always going to be like that. England is very good at imitating the rest of the world and making something your own, and that’s just the way England is. Art is imitation. I don’t really follow that side of the art world, and for me it doesn’t really affect my life. What affects me is what I paint tomorrow and what I make today.

Torsten Schmidt

I do believe we have a question out there, but before we do, I don’t think we heard “Timeless” or “Angel” or anything like that? Does anyone want to hear some of that?

(music: Goldie – “Timeless” / applause)

Goldie

Thank you. It’s been a bit of a long night for us, been larking about all night ragging it, as usual. I don’t know what makes us fall so much in love with this music and music in general. I still ask myself that same question, that, if you can interact with people, for me it’s always been sharing with people. It’s ultimately the one thing that I’ve always had to do with my life, and want to do with my life. That in itself is a gift. We have to look around at each other and say, “You know what? Ultimately music is what binds us.” And I think that that’s the one thing I will carry until the day I die. Ultimately, we are all here because if we didn’t have music, we’d be completely lost. It’s been a really beautiful experience being here and seeing you guys, and I kind of feel shy now, but it’s beautiful to celebrate music and I want to thank you for that. [Applause]

Torsten Schmidt

Still, I saw one or two hands around the room?

Audience member

First of all… man… “Timeless” still seems to give me goosebumps. It’s official. But I was just wondering if you’ve been exposed to this new phenomenon in the UK hardcore continuum, Burial? Just like now hearing “Timeless” after a few years, actually, it has a certain essence of UK sound, and I think with Burial I get a similar feeling, you know?

Goldie

Bevan is a remarkable human being. I speak with him regularly. He’s of the generation where it’s completely the opposite to how I came through music. Completely not into the whole fucking press, media, whatever else. We speak a lot about music, and ultimately he’s a genius, I think. It’s beyond what you call dubstep, it’s beyond that. He has a signature. And in fact, I’m going to share something with you, which you probably haven’t heard. But he is completely a genius. He captures the same thing, he’s got it, he’s a genius.

(music: Commix – “Be True (Burial Remix)”)

For me, what Bevan’s managed to do is completely encompass the sound, the state of the sound and I think that god bless people like him that make music like that. To be an individual. He’s a very, very shy person and very, very shy and timid, but to be able to make that kind of sound. When I first heard that I was completely blown away. For me, I see myself in that. I see the sound, the signature that he’s been able to write. He doesn’t use conventional ways of making music. He doesn’t program in a way that we would assume. He throws sounds and he doesn’t program the way that we program. He’s very, very primal in the way that he programs, a bit like a A Guy Called Gerald. God bless him, I think he’s gonna take this sound further and further and that’s what we need.

Audience member

Hey, man. The graffiti art in New York is a big thing for a lot of Kiwis or New Zealanders… I don’t know much about graffiti art, but my friend’s really into it, he showed me this stuff. And it’s like, you get to a carriage and you can’t stand back from it and he just goes “bang” and does this massive thing, perfectly, perfect proportions without looking back to it once, and it’s perfect. Talking about your approach to music and people’s approaches really interests me and you’re saying how you have a sketch of how the music should be. And with him he’s obviously got a very developed idea of what it should be to just go and do it.

Goldie

Graffiti for me, fundamentally, the form of it has learnt me to stand back from the canvas. If I never did graffiti, I would never be able to arrange music the way I do. I know that for a fact. Graffiti was the instrument where you can stand away from something. The approach, the structure is the same as music. I think B-boys, generally, we all had that mentality inbred almost. It’s part of your curriculum almost. And I think that the writers that I learned from in terms of the true form of letter form have been fundamental in the way I’ve learned. Music is the same thing. It’s arrangement, color, and I think most graffiti writers have that. It’s just one of those things.

Audience member

You mentioned that you spent some time in Miami and I actually have two things I would like you to speak about a little bit. Did the Miami bass culture have any influence on you?

Goldie

Not at all, I used to hate it. I used to work at the flea market, Luke Skyywalker was big then. South Carolina sound, which has come about recently last year, the year before, Luke Skyywalker was doing this years ago. It was booty music, you know? It never really influenced me at all. It was almost as if I had acid house and UK music, and for me it never really hit me the way that English music has hit me. And the guys who were producing that I knew there were making a more advanced music, and as far as I was concerned, it never really affected me that kind of music.

Audience member

The other subject that we didn’t really get to hear you about is cinema. I know that’s important to you, and another thing that you are involved with as well.

Goldie

I love film. Ever since I watched a film by a Russian director called Mirror film has always been a very big part. Michel Gondry’s like the genius, he’s the god as far as that’s concerned. And for me, that’s something that I’ve always wanted to pursue. Not from an acting perspective, but from a director’s perspective. I think that music generally is that kind of thing for me, that kind of deal – creating, beginning, end, the storyline, the heart of it. Hopefully, next year I’ll be able to direct my own screenplay, which had been eight years thick. I’ve been doing that for eight years solid, really. It’s an ongoing process. Film is like a slow photograph, a very, very slow photograph at its shutter speed, it’s like that. Music is more instant.

I thought I knew everything about it and it was a completely different process. Watching the great directors, Gondry especially, and Wes Anderson, is one of my others, when I saw Magnolia, it completely changed my life as far as film was concerned. Just the way that it moves around, the characters, the way that it progresses. For me, it’s the same approach with music that I’ve been absorbing the last ten years as much as I can, and hopefully I’ll be able to pull something good next year, pull it off.

Audience member

Hey. When you said your mom is gonna get the record and when you speak about sharing with people, I thought about the South American market, and how it gets openly ignored. What do you think about that?

Goldie

What do you mean about the South American market?

Audience member

The musical South American market.

Goldie

Music in South America, even classically, people like [Astor] Piazzolla from Argentina, the tango, that kind of vibe? South America is South America and it’s what it is. Musically, the world wouldn’t be the same without South American music. Musically, it has fundamentally changed music from tango to salsa to all of that… I watched a breathtaking documentary called [From Mambo to Hip-Hop] by Henry Chalfant, who did Subway Art. It showed the way the music has transferred from Cuba and South America, and the influences in to hip-hop and prog rock and whatever. And I don’t think you have to worry about South America. South American music is part of us, whether we like it or not. Looking at people like [Eumir] Deodato and these really prolific songwriters, I mean, I wouldn’t fear about South America.

Audience member

I meant the other way around. It took ages for drum & bass to get to South America.

Goldie

I find that kind of weird, really. Marky is the only kind of exponent of that, really. DJ Marky from there, and I thought it would have stuck more than it did. I don’t know why it never took off like that. I think by default rhythm percussion is the whole kind of South American thing, I don’t know why it never took off.

Audience member

I have a question, you don’t have to answer, because it’s a bit speculative. But Photek released a record a couple of months ago, a single. Did you hear that record and what did you think about it?

Goldie

Rupert is Rupert. Rupert Parkes, as we know him. You know what it is? I think a lot of people, even us, we like to judge people. Human beings do that. Rupert is fundamentally a waypoint, if you like. A waypoint is a navigational point, where everything changes from that waypoint, and Rupert is a waypoint. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t really care what Rupert makes. I love what he makes and what he’s making now may be different to what he used to make, and that’s just the way it is. He’s in a different environment, he’s doing what he used to do, and I’m not one to judge, and I love what Rupert’s done for this scene musically. That in itself answers the question. Did you not like the last release?

Audience member

I think the way you think, so I’m not judging. I just wanted to know what do you say about that. Lots of people didn’t like it.

Goldie

But you’re making the point as if there’s a point that Rupert’s made this thing what do you think, it’s different. That’s Rupert. I think, ultimately, what you should be saying is, “Rupert’s done some really beautiful tracks in the past.” That to me is not derogatory, but you’re making the point that it’s the last thing the guy’s made and we’ve got to judge this guy for this record. If I was judged by the last record that I made, I’d be finished already. Maybe… it’s not too late. I think that the weight of what he’s done for the scene musically outweighs whatever he does, whatever it is.

Audience member

OK, it was really not a statement like I’m judging him or something just that you know?

Goldie

Just for the record.

Audience member

I don’t have a question, I only have a request: I want Sine Tempus released on vinyl.

Goldie

Everyone’s driving me mad about this. I will release it on vinyl. If it’s up to Steven C who says it’s a pile of shit, I won’t release it, but I will release it on vinyl. The fact of the matter is that it’s an ongoing project for me, and I didn’t really want to release it. It’s the soundtrack to my screenplay, and it will remain that but I will put it on vinyl next year, end of January.

Audience member

I have a question about your graphic approach to music because it kind of reminded me about how Karlheinz Stockhausen treated his scores. I know you were studying these composers, all modern ones, and my question is, was it coming from there, or you did your special kind of way of understanding music graphically?

Goldie

I think when you are separated from society in childcare you have a different view on life. It’s almost as if you travel with a suitcase and everything is arranged. You empty the suitcase, you lay everything out, and it’s always been a different viewpoint for me, viewing things from the outside. So arrangement and music is the same thing. I don’t really look at other people’s influence or whatever but what I do look at is: I see it from the outside, I see what it can be. I didn’t purposely set out to do that, it’s just the way that it is. I prefer to make music visually. It keeps me safe. It gives me a beginning and an ending and I’m happy with that. I don’t really follow Stockhausen and different kind of movements… I’m very selfish when it comes to art. For me, it works. If you have a belief system and it works for you, that’s all you really have to worry about. That’s the main thing. If you have a belief system, it doesn’t matter if everyone else is wrong, you’re right and that’s all that matters.

Audience member

For you what comes first, the scheme or the melody or something else?

Goldie

They are all the same thing. Essentially, when I was working with vocalists, they are sound for me. They are no different than a saxophone. One cannot be without the other. For me, it’s the whole picture. Even when I look at graffiti that I was doing 15, 20 years ago, it’s letters, background, color, character, the whole thing. For me, one cannot work without the other. I guess that’s why I’m so long-winded in my music, I’m getting really complicated to get one particular viewpoint. But my own answer to that is that someone has got to do that. There’s an area of music that’s missing, I kind of fit within that area, and it’s all part of the whole picture.

Audience member

I’ve got one question about “Mother.” I know you had a lot of orchestral music in there. Can you explain how you actually composed that, how you translated that, and the musicians you used to deliver that?

Goldie

What I did was I made a 27-minute sound bed of just synthetics, keyboards, basically. And what I did then was get a dictaphone and sing the melodies that were coming to me, prismatically. Everything was just coming in, the vocal first and then the melodies and then I inserted it within that synthetic bed and I sang melodies into a Dictaphone and said, “two minutes 37 we have that, seven minutes 18 we have that, eight minutes 16 we have that.” So, I was building the whole track up like that. And I got a guy called John Altman, who’s a conductor, and I spunked most of my budget on an orchestra, my recording budget. I took this Dictaphone to him and I said, “Can you get an orchestra to play this?” And he was like, “OK, how many piece? 30? 40?” We got it up to about 50-piece, and he translated and notated what I sang into the Dictaphone and when I did all the orchestration I had it all placed into DA-88. I bounced every track down onto DA-88, recorded the whole session at Angel Islington [Studio] and I then had the synthetic track slaved, and then recorded the orchestra, took it back to the studio and moved it around, tweaked it and placed it. And that’s how it began its life as a 27-minute piece, and it worked.

Torsten Schmidt

OK, I think the man is craving a cigarette, but we can’t let him go without giving him a big hand and thanking him for sharing with us…