Larry Heard (2018)

Chal Ravens

Hi. Welcome to this very exciting Red Bull lecture, with a very important musical figure. I’m honored to be sat next to one of the most influential musical figures of the last 30 years. He’s responsible for some of the most enduring Chicago house tracks ever made and also for some of the most unique and soulful electronic albums of the ’80s, the ’90s, the noughties, the tens. This year he released his first album in 13 years, Cerebral Hemispheres, and it seems to me that he is just as in tune with his self-made musical universe as he has ever been. Please welcome Larry Heard. [applause]

Larry Heard

Thank you all. Thank you for being here.

Chal Ravens

So you have a long career, so there’s quite a lot for us to get through, potentially.

Larry Heard

OK. We’ll see how much I remember.

Chal Ravens

You’re often described as a deep house artist, and your music is often described as timeless. I agree with that one, the latter. So what I thought what we could do this evening is maybe look at some of the different aspects to your sound, because there are more facets than initially meet the ear, perhaps.

So, I wanted to start with a track, that’s actually quite a new track. I thought I’d start with “Qwazars,” which came out a couple of years ago, and it was the return to your Mr. Fingers alias.

Larry Heard

Yeah. Yeah. I completely forgot about using the name. I stopped using it for a while, after the MCA deal, just to make sure everything was legally clear. But you get involved in different things, and you’re just moving forward, and you’re not even really thinking.

Chal Ravens

So it wasn’t meant to be like a big, dramatic return, or...

Larry Heard

No, it was just kind of oversight. And then I was involved in doing a lot of the traveling, doing DJ jobs and remixes and things like that. So I had shifted away from my own productions for a while, and all the time was devoted elsewhere. So, all those things combined, kind of led to the situation.

Chal Ravens

OK. Let’s here “Qwazars” and then we’ll talk a bit about some other things.

(music: Mr. Fingers – “Qwazars”)

Larry Heard

[applause] Thank you.

Chal Ravens

I hate to fade it down, but if we listen to all of your tracks in full, then we will be here for a long time. [laughs] I just wanted to start with that particular track, ‘cause I think it encapsulates quite a lot of aspects, of your sound, maybe?

Larry Heard

OK.

Chal Ravens

It also happens to be one of my favorite ones, which is not usually something you can say about an artist, that they’ve made one of your favorite tracks 30 years after they released their first track.

Larry Heard

Thank you.

Chal Ravens

Bringing it back to this idea of deep house, or whatever it may be. Can you explain or describe, the kind of mood that it is that you’re looking for when you make a track?

Larry Heard

I definitely come from the world of improvisation. We grew up with a piano in the house, so we were improvising as little kids, playing theme songs from TV shows and things like that, and that just continues today. I don’t really go in thinking anything. It’s more meditative than there’s thinking involved. It’s more paying attention to the sounds, and how they interact with each other. So I let the sounds that I come across... And for this one in particular, “Qwazars,” it was a cool little patch I was using, I think Reason 4 for that, and it was a cool arpeggiating bass sound that I used as my foundation, and then I built on top of it, but not a whole bunch of stuff. Just kind of sparsely there, give the track some room to breath. But most of the time I just freestyle when I go into the studio and save everything, and then when it’s time to do a project or something, then you review everything and see which things seem like they would fit into it.

Chal Ravens

So that idea of room to breath, do you find that to complete a track, you’re often taking things away rather than adding?

Larry Heard

Sometimes. It depends on how far you go out of control. I had my mad scientist side, where I’d try to do a whole lot of things, or experiment with different effects and things like that, and then you have to pull back the reins and corral it in and tame it a little bit.

Chal Ravens

Well you’re quite famously a laid-back guy, supposedly. But I wondered if that’s a personality trait that you put into your music, or if you look to music to help you be that laid-back?

Larry Heard

I think it’s more a personality that goes into the music, because I literally came up with people thinking I was a deaf-mute in the neighborhood, because I never said a whole lot.

Chal Ravens

That you were deaf-mute?

Larry Heard

No, they thought I was, ‘cause I heard someone, one of my brother’s friends, ask him was I deaf, because they never heard me say anything. I guess I just didn’t have anything specifically to say.

Chal Ravens

What were you doing instead? You were thinking instead.

Larry Heard

Probably. And observing things around me. Yeah, I always knew I was one of those people who observe everything, and look around. Just like we were just looking around the room, ‘cause I saw the stage from this side earlier, and I hadn’t seen it. So now I get a chance to look at it from this angle.

Chal Ravens

Natural observer.

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

So, let’s go back to the beginning a bit. Growing up in Chicago, in ’70s, you weren’t really listening to dance music, that’s right?

Larry Heard

When dance music came around, remember we had disco and there was an early wave of electro music from Europe. They came over to the States, so we had that, as far as dance music. And then we had the soul music that everyone danced to, and the rock songs that everyone danced to. So I guess there always has been dance music, ‘cause if you go back in history, people always danced. So whatever they danced to is the dance music. It’s just kind of our newer interpretation of music, kind of sculptured sometimes for DJs. Where a lot of maybe like, Philadelphia International stuff, it wasn’t set up with 32 bars, or 64 bars, to set up for a DJ. Sometimes it came right in, as a surprise.

Chal Ravens

But maybe compared to some of the people of your generation, who became DJs and so on, you were kind of into rock music and stuff?

Larry Heard

Yeah. I was playing. I started off on guitar, and shifted to bass, and then shifted to drums, and felt more comfortable there, and the music that was most challenging was the prog rock stuff that I was coming across. Yes and The Who and Genesis and Rush, and things like that. So, that’s where I started doing my practicing.

Chal Ravens

So you were teaching yourself drums by playing to Genesis...

Larry Heard

Yeah, ‘cause I tried structured environments a couple times, with drums, and with guitar, and with piano, and it just didn’t work for me. It wasn’t the right fit. So I was better at just buying the records, and then listening to what they were doing, or try to decipher it, and then do it myself. Kind of learn that way.

Chal Ravens

And so, were you playing in bands at the same time?

Larry Heard

Yeah. Either it was a working band, or a jam band, where we just all practiced and exercised our instruments at the same time.

Chal Ravens

So not writing original music, necessarily?

Larry Heard

I did get around to an R&B band that I was with, where we started doing some original songs. Yeah.

Chal Ravens

And you came from a family who were interested in music?

Larry Heard

Oh, yeah, they all played. As you go back on the timeline, before television came around, a lot of them had a piano in the house, they didn’t have a television. So that was the entertainment center, where someone who played would play, and everyone else would sing and things like that. It was kind of family interactive.

Chal Ravens

Gathering around the piano.

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

Did you always harbor the intention of being a musician professionally?

Larry Heard

No I didn’t. I was thinking about either being a teacher, a lawyer, or an architect, and I was kind of being pushed towards architect ‘cause one of my uncles has a firm in Chicago. I just ended up stumbling across music, when someone in the neighborhood was putting a band together, and he said they were looking for a drummer. I just bluffed and said I played, and then I immediately got a drum set and started hiding so I could practice, to at least make good on my bluff. That’s how I kind of got into it, just spur of the moment.

Chal Ravens

Obviously you’re considered one of the founding fathers of Chicago house, but is it right also that you weren’t necessarily going to the clubs early on? That kind of came later?

Larry Heard

No, not really. I was more involved in the live music scene in the earlier years, and then as I started to put some distance in between myself and some of the bands... The last band I was in, I guess it wasn’t really customary for the drummer to have musical ideas. So that kept me a little confined for a minute, but I ended up having to buy my own synthesizer, and then buy a drum machine to keep the time, since I wasn’t gonna be able to hold the sticks and do the keyboard part. So it was more just practicality than me being a techno geek or anything like that.

Chal Ravens

So the synth came and the drum machine came because you couldn’t play it all yourself?

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

So you had to have the machines to do it?

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

OK, makes sense.

Larry Heard

Practical use.

Chal Ravens

Thinking of Chicago in the ’70s, this is the era of “disco sucks,” and famously the Disco Demolition Night happened in Chicago. Do you remember that?

Larry Heard

I remember seeing it on the news, but even at that time, I think that might have been ’79, I was in some rock group jamming, or something like that, so it was just a story I saw on the news.

Chal Ravens

I was gonna say, which side?

Larry Heard

Well, I didn’t have any problem with disco. I like all kinds of music. Classical, country, rock, reggae, it doesn’t matter what it is, as long as it sounds good. That’s the disclaimer. I saw it on the news and I thought, “How crazy is this?” is what went through my head, and then I’m sure some of those people had to go right back out and buy some of those other records because they were just doing it because of peer pressure and social pressure.

Chal Ravens

The Disco Demolition Night was famously organized by a local radio host, and happened at the White Sox stadium?

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

And a load of people who loved rock and hated disco brought their disco records along and they got, I think, blown up in the middle of the pitch, or destroyed.

Larry Heard

I wonder, how do you hate disco, but you have the records?

Chal Ravens

It’s a good point. [laughs]

Larry Heard

Yeah. So they obviously liked it at some point, but got turned away. I think it was more economics too. The disco music was starting to come in economically where The Rolling Stones had to do a disco song, and Rod Stewart, and everybody else just kinda catching up with what the independents and the people on the street already knew about five years before.

Chal Ravens

Right, because disco was already maybe a bit tired, by 1979. People were perhaps a bit fed up of it, but I think it also reflects that Chicago is a very segregated city as well. There’s obviously a strong racial element to that.

Larry Heard

Yeah. I can’t say I know a ton about it, ‘cause I always was on an alternate path or something, because I was, again, playing with rock groups. It was two black guys, two Latino guys, playing Rush songs.

Chal Ravens

That’s quite an unusual...

Larry Heard

Well, you get a mixture of people that you interact with when you’re just involved in artistic things, period. Where they don’t go by the social standards.

Chal Ravens

Given that the demolition night was hosted by a radio host, Steve Dahl, radio itself was huge in the development of dance music, and particularly in Chicago, right?

Larry Heard

I think everywhere. It just reaches more sets of ears.

Chal Ravens

And were you listening to that kind of thing? Were you listening to the Hot Mix 5?

Larry Heard

Oh yeah, I knew about Donna Summer, “Ring My Bell,” and “Night Fever.” Knew about all that stuff, ‘cause it was just like knowing about Nicki Minaj right now. You don’t have to actually be listening to the radio, but it’s always around you so you end up hearing it.

Chal Ravens

So you’re hearing it on the radio but not necessarily going to the clubs to experience what the DJs were doing with it?

Larry Heard

No, not at that time. I was working full-time first of all. I started working when I was about 15, so a lot of things that other kids did, sneaking into clubs, you hear a lot of those. I was already at work, so I didn’t have the liberty to do that, you know. Trying to help my family out.

Chal Ravens

What kind of jobs were you doing when you were a teenager?

Larry Heard

Oh, I did the McDonalds thing. I did a donut shop for a long time.

Chal Ravens

Donuts?

Larry Heard

Yeah, you get to hate donuts after a while, you know. Then once I was in my last year of high school I was able to take a civil service test, and moved into government work.

Chal Ravens

So you had a proper job?

Larry Heard

Yeah, with benefits, and all those fun things you don’t get with music.

Chal Ravens

So I was wondering what got you interested in electronic music, specifically? You said, of course, it helped you to replace your band, but I guess at that time, there must have been more European stuff coming over, like Kraftwerk.

Larry Heard

Yeah. Of course we went through the disco years, and then the next period, starting at about the ’80s, a lot of the New York... I don’t even know what to call the sound, but New York had its own kind of flavor, New York, New Jersey. And then we had the stuff that was coming in from England, and from the Netherlands, and Germany, and different places like that.

So all that stuff was just really captivating, it was different from what we were hearing every day, and I think that’s what everybody seeks. Even now, you want something different, not the same thing over and over.

Chal Ravens

And maybe I just think this as an outsider, and having read the stories, but it seem like the European stuff, particularly in the Midwest, had this big impact, like Kraftwerk in Detroit, and it seemed to really catch on in the clubs and everything. People were really playing the synth stuff, right?

Larry Heard

Well, I wasn’t really in the clubs, but I knew I heard it on the radio, which is even reaching more people, ‘cause the whole population can’t fit into a club, but most of them do have radios, so you just reach a bigger audience.

Chal Ravens

What was the first piece of synth or drum machine, or electronic stuff that you bought?

Larry Heard

I bought a Roland Jupiter-6 synthesizer.

Chal Ravens

Why did you choose that one?

Larry Heard

Well, of course as musicians, you always go to the music store, and you sit there dreamily looking at everything, and wishing and hoping. So we did that. Even with DJ stuff, when hip-hop came around, we started discovering more than one turntable and the mixer, that kind of thing. You just window shopped. So that’s what we did, and I of course tapped on the synthesizers, ‘cause you want to hear the sounds, because just to look at it is only half the experience. They look exciting with all the knobs and buttons, but then it’s completed when you start to hear the sounds, and go through the patches.

Chal Ravens

Did you try all of them out in the shop, until you found one that you liked?

Larry Heard

Well, not every one, but I tried out enough where I knew, yeah, I can work with this. Yeah.

Chal Ravens

So, what happened when you took the Roland Jupiter-6 home?

Larry Heard

Well, that first night I made “Mystery of Love,” and I made “Washing Machine,” that first night. So it was just my first drafts ever. I was lucky enough to catch it on a cassette tape, which has been lost since then, of course.

Chal Ravens

Really? So two of your most famous tracks you made the day that you bought your first synth?

Larry Heard

Yes, I guess it was just... You have creativity inside yourself that wants to burst out, and it’s being stifled, because of, again, a tradition. Like again, I always had ideas when I was behind the drums, but the other band members weren’t really receptive, again, to the drummer having ideas, and I think there’s pretty much a rich history of drummers, like Phil Collins, and Narada Michael Waldon, and people like that, that step out. But you have to express your ideas, or it’s not fulfilling.

Chal Ravens

Phil Collins makes sense as a musical hero for you as well, being in Genesis.

Larry Heard

Yeah. I liked him as a drummer, I liked him as a producer as well.

Chal Ravens

Can you explain exactly how you recorded that, in those days, because you were just using basic stuff?

Larry Heard

Well, I had two cassette decks, so that’s what happened. I ran one pass on one cassette, and then, once I decided what I wanted over the top, I ran the next pass, and just played the parts live. It was kind of a semi-live, semi-sequenced, kind of a thing.

Chal Ravens

So, you basically just made it and it was complete then?

Larry Heard

Yeah. Just two passes. Again, keeping it simple. I was really just a beginner, as far as trying to do any composition or anything like that, so I couldn’t really do like a 80-piece orchestra thing. I could just do something simple enough for me.

Chal Ravens

And how did you get to actually release that record? How do you go from just making it in your room to suddenly somebody’s actually playing it in a club?

Larry Heard

We were lucky enough to have a vehicle in Chicago, which were the club DJs, who were playing off of cassette decks with pitch controls, or reel-to-reels with pitch controls, and things like that, and they were willing to listen to what you had, and give it a chance. Of course, we went the route that is traditionally sought after, where you make a tape, and you send it to Universal, or you send it to somebody, and you never hear back.

Chal Ravens

Did you do that? You tried that?

Larry Heard

Yeah. That’s tradition too, to do that, to find out it doesn’t work 99.9% of the time. So a good buddy of mine made the suggestion of, “Why don’t you just put it out yourself?” Which turned a light bulb on top of both our heads, and said, “Yeah, let’s do some research, and see how this is done.” And even the first two releases didn’t have a label name or anything, ‘cause I didn’t know how you go about establishing a name, and that kind of a thing. But I did start my publishing off, so I ended up deciding to use the publishing name as the label name since I got a clearance for the name.

And again, since we had the forum of the clubs in town, and some of the guys that were playing at clubs were also on the radio, some of the Hot Mix 5 guys, so that was an additional boost, where more people, maybe who like club music, but maybe you have kids, you’re married, you’re on a different shift, or something like that and you can’t go. So it gives them the opportunity to hear the music as well.

Chal Ravens

Right, because DJs were using cassettes then too.

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

Do you remember...

Larry Heard

I think that was one of the new technologies at that time, a cassette.

Chal Ravens

[laughs] Do you remember hearing your track on the radio?

Larry Heard

I remember driving on Lakeshore Drive, and “Mystery of Love” came on. It was snowing, and it’s just one of those things where you almost run off the road. You’re just so excited and surprised, and no one’s in the car with you, to say anything to, and this is before cell phones, so we couldn’t call anybody, or text anyone.

Chal Ravens

You couldn’t put yourself on Facebook Live.

Larry Heard

So you had to just get home, and, “Did anybody hear the song?!”

Chal Ravens

But then you actually re-recorded it though, right? To put it out on a bigger label later?

Larry Heard

Yeah, and that was an early lesson of me learning that recreating the moment is not always successful, ‘cause we had tried it numerous times. Even some of the early drafts I did with Robert [Owens], where it had a great feel in my little bedroom, but then when we translated it to the studio it just kind of lost its edge. I think you lost both of us in a way too, where our feelings about it weren’t the same as when we just did it, and it was off the cuff, it was not rehearsed or anything, it just came out honestly. Next time it feels like you’re just replicating something that you can’t replicate, ‘cause it was just that moment. I used a patch on the synthesizer, but I altered it and I didn’t save it, so that means it was immediately gone the first time I turned it off.

Chal Ravens

Normally people learn that, because they’re trying to make their kit work for the first time, but you’d accidentally recorded a hit the first time you used it, so no wonder you couldn’t remember what you did.

Larry Heard

[laughs] I just wish I could have saved the bassline to maybe use in other selections, or just for other people to look at the settings, who have been trying to decipher the sound.

Chal Ravens

And at this point, you meet a man called Robert Owens. How did you meet Robert in the first place?

Larry Heard

Robert was DJing. Actually, a friend of mine that lived around the corner, was more in tune with the DJs at the quote-unquote underground clubs at the time. So he took the cassette and delivered it to Frankie Knuckles, or Ron Hardy, and different people he knew. And one of those people was Robert Owens, and he was playing it, and I happened to be at the party. I just stepped over...

Chal Ravens

You did go to some parties?

Larry Heard

Yeah. Once I left my bands, maybe about ’84, I start seeing some clubs, which is late for some people who’ve been in there since the ’70s, but then once I really stumbled across these clubs, I was interested in, what other music are you playing that I never heard, ‘cause somethings are deemed inappropriate for radio, of course.

Chal Ravens

Right.

Larry Heard

So I wanted to hear, where’s that music that’s been held back from us.

Chal Ravens

Did you enjoy the stuff that you found at the clubs, that was new to you?

Larry Heard

Oh yeah, it sent you on a shopping mission all the time, and that’s what I liked, because I bought a lot of records anyway. So just having more stuff on your list, gives you a nice size stack to carry home and listen to.

Chal Ravens

So Robert was DJing?

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

So how did you know that he was going to be a singer for you?

Larry Heard

I didn’t know. He started talking, and he told me that he writes lyrics, and he sang. I said, “Well, we should get together.” So, all of this was pretty normal, as far as how people meet. No spectacular story, just a normal life story of we meeting because of common interest, and then each discovering what the other does, and interested in participating in it.

Chal Ravens

I’m kind of interested in what happens when two musicians first get together, because it’s like a blind date almost. How do you start making music with someone you’ve never thought of making music with before?

Larry Heard

I don’t know, but it happened for us. So again, it was organic. Again, all this stuff, all the questions center around thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, analyzing and trying to predict things. It just all happened organically. The whole situation in Chicago with DJs being willing to play the music and then the community at large being captivated, ‘cause now it’s people in the community. We love Earth Wind & Fire, we love the Ohio Players, but they seemed like it’s far away. When you discover it’s someone you went to high school with, someone who lives around the corner, that brings it a lot more into focus where you feel like, “Oh, well maybe if they’re doing something, maybe I can do it as well.” If it’s coming that close to you, you feel hopeful.

Chal Ravens

And so when you actually started recording with Robert, what was it about his style or his voice that you felt fit with what you were doing?

Larry Heard

Well actually, to be honest, I hadn’t heard him sing until we got together that first time. ‘Cause he was working when I met him, he was DJing. He couldn’t just stop DJing and start singing for me. It just ended up working out. Maybe if anyone in this room happened to be that person, maybe it would’ve worked out as well, if you’re on the same wavelength as far as having creative ideas.

The same thing with him where his ideas were stifled. People telling him he couldn’t sing and would never amount to anything. That captivated me even more, the underdog person that people are predicting nothing’s gonna happen. Oh, that’s really satisfying to be a part of making something happen. Make the person eat crow in a way. [laughs]

Chal Ravens

So at this point you begin a pretty peerless run of classic tracks. Pretty much everything you put out in this period is classic.

Larry Heard

Thank you.

Chal Ravens

“Washing Machine,” “Can You Feel It,” “Amnesia” and so on. I’m interested if you then started becoming a club regular, and how much being in the clubs shaped what you were actually making. Was there a feedback loop there?

Larry Heard

I didn’t become a club regular because I was working full-time and a lot of the time doing overtime as well. My time was pretty much...

Chal Ravens

Were you working nights?

Larry Heard

I started off working nights at the Department of Health, Education and Welfare in their computer room. So my availability was limited. But we made it work. It seemed like it was effortless, us getting together, ‘cause I was always making tracks in my free time, and he was obviously writing lyrics ‘cause he had lyrics on paper towels and napkins, he just had a big bag. So I would just play a track and he would pour things out of the bag and just grab something and just start ad-libbing. Which, again, was intriguing to me. OK, someone who knows how to ad lib, they’re not afraid to do it and not afraid to get laughed at if it’s comical. But most of the time he just has his way with his voice. It’s the sincerity and the passion that you literally feel as it’s coming out of his vocal chords. He pretty much sells you on his idea ‘cause he’s so passionate when he starts to sing it.

Chal Ravens

In that case, let’s play a Fingers Inc. track called “Bring Down The Walls,” which, as far as I’m aware, he wrote the lyrics on some toilet paper while...

Larry Heard

Uh huh. It was one take.

Chal Ravens

‘Cause he worked...

Larry Heard

The different versions, each were one take.

Chal Ravens

Wow. And he worked in a hospital, I think, right?

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

So let’s hear “Bring Down The Walls.”

Larry Heard

And the doorbell rings on the dub version.

(music: Fingers, Inc. – “Bring Down The Walls”)

[applause] Thank you. Thank you.

Chal Ravens

I realized when I was researching this that you actually remade this track recently for a compilation. It’s a kind of slightly glossy version for a charity compilation.

Larry Heard

Well, I haven’t seen the compilation so I don’t know exactly what you’re talking about, but we did something for New York. Is that...

Chal Ravens

A prison charity based in New York.

Larry Heard

It was more me re-editing and maybe rearranging in the end.

Chal Ravens

Polishing, maybe.

Larry Heard

Or the polish should have been done when we first did it, maybe doing it now, and incorporating a second vocalist.

Chal Ravens

The fact that you remade it for... It’s a charity that’s campaigning against America’s prison system, essentially, and better rights for people who are incarcerated. And it made me think a bit about how, some of the lyrics that Robert wrote do definitely have a political thrust to them even though they’re in a...

Larry Heard

They’re political and social. He taps on a lot of different things.

Chal Ravens

How did the political side actually play out at the time? Was there a sense of building a community, bringing down walls and that kind of thing?

Larry Heard

Maybe in a way ‘cause that actually happened with disco. Some people didn’t like the wall being broke down. They wanted the wall to stay up where everyone stayed compartmentalized and, “you stay here, you stay here, you listen to this, you listen to this,” and all the socially acceptable things. So this is one of the musics that went against the status quo, like punk rock and things like that. It went totally against it. And then we already had our own cultural movement in Chicago. It became known as the underground scene there to people who were interested in this different music that we weren’t hearing on the radio.

Chal Ravens

I’m interested in whether it felt like that at the time, as if it was an actively political scene?

Larry Heard

I don’t know if you consciously think about it ‘cause you’re just getting such a big kick out of... For myself and Robert where we had been stifled as far as our creativity, now someone’s listening to something that’s 100% your idea. Some of the people I was in bands with were coming to me saying, “Can you produce something for me?” I was like, “How did this happen? You didn’t want me to touch a keyboard back then.”

But you’re just excited that someone is interested in your music and listening to it and dancing to it and buying it. Not just ‘cause there’s a whole lot of discussion a lot of times, but sometimes the people that have the most to say don’t really purchase anything, they just have a big opinion.

Chal Ravens

So tell me about Fingers, Inc. How did you get from working with Robert to forming Fingers, Inc.?

Larry Heard

I guess it started with Robert and my collaboration, but once we start working with Ron Wilson, who worked with me in government, I discovered he sang when I went to a performance of his. He was involved with dancing and teaching dance, but I didn’t know he sang.

Chal Ravens

So he was your government colleague, right?

Larry Heard

All I knew was the government stuff until I got invited to one of his performances. It just seemed like another person to bring in to broaden things a little bit.

Chal Ravens

Yeah because his voice works in balance with Robert’s. They perform two different functions, in a way.

Larry Heard

Robert’s more the wilder, unorthodox, unpredictable, and Ron Wilson is more... I think his father was in either The Flamingos or The Spaniels, one of those groups. He comes from people who had musical talent as well. It definitely showed in his voice. It was a juxtaposition between the two voices.

Chal Ravens

And in 1988, you put out a record called Another Side, which included a lot of tracks that had already come out, but expanded it into a full album. And Another Side, I think, is unarguably a classic house album, but I realized, researching this, that until it came out, I think digitally last year, it had never had a proper US release. Is that right?

Larry Heard

Yeah it never was released in the States.

Chal Ravens

So how does that happen?

Larry Heard

It happens, again, when people have a big opinion but they don’t actually purchase anything. You’re wasting your time servicing them ‘cause they’re not interested in patronizing what you’re doing.

Chal Ravens

I’m intrigued though, as to how house was seen in Chicago. Wasn’t it huge? Wouldn’t people in Chicago want this record? What was the...

Larry Heard

Well, Chicago is a huge city, so something can be huge and millions of people not know it exists. That’s what was happening with the house music scene. It was under the radar. ‘Cause we did, we had Earth, Wind & Fire, we had The Bar-Kays, we had Cameo, we had the Ohio Players. Those are the people that the general public knew. Parliament and guys like that, how can you not know that?

Chal Ravens

Did you notice that you were becoming successful abroad, or in other cities, where perhaps you hadn’t even been yet? Did you feel that there was something that people...

Larry Heard

I don’t know if I’d jump to the term “successful,” but you’re noticing a reception where people were interested in listening, where some people it was just a cold shoulder as something related to disco or related to dance music and club culture. Some people just shut you down right away, “I don’t want to hear anything about that.”

Chal Ravens

Like radio hosts or like...

Larry Heard

Yeah, radio definitely. If you think about it... Well, we can start on “Mystery Of Love.” “Mystery Of Love” showed up on the Billboard charts, on the dance charts, at number 20-something, and Janet Jackson, “What Have You Done For Me Lately” was right under it. I’m sure the people at A&M Records weren’t too happy to see that. Some guy who just recorded something in his bedroom, and we made this big financial investment, we advertised in the magazine. So they used that might to start slowly getting things off the chart and getting some of the shows shut down and everything else. It’s economics, it wasn’t really anything personal.

Chal Ravens

It seems as though the music industry at the time just didn’t really get how to...

Larry Heard

They didn’t. I don’t think they still do in the States. But it just seemed lucrative, so we wanna run. It seemed like the hope of money. But ‘cause a whole lot of people like Adeva, Ten City, the list goes on and on as far as people who got signed, but the labels didn’t know really what to do with them once they did sign them and who to play them for, who to present the music to.

Chal Ravens

I think this happened again didn’t it, was it perhaps your debut album on MCA, which ended up charting higher than Eric B. & Rakim who were on the same label, I believe? MCA ended up, again, not being quite sure what to do with Larry Heard I guess.

Larry Heard

Well, I don’t think they ever were sure, due to my manager working at the label at the time that secured the deal. But outside of that I probably would never have gotten the deal. And we got signed out of the UK offices as well. It wasn’t LA or New York. So people who were more receptive to the music.

Chal Ravens

The UK was definitely more receptive in the mainstream after acid house happened. At what point did somebody say that you should start DJing then? Did you want to do that?

Larry Heard

I think it had always been mentioned here and there, and I did it at home for fun and just your own therapeutic reasons. But I hadn’t really thought about it, I was so accustomed to playing some instrument or being involved in a band, and in the end transitioning into this producer capacity was a big job in itself, where you’re learning everything from start to finish.

So I just couldn’t take everything on, I think I was still working as well. Once I got to the Another Side album that’s when I decided to leave my job so I could really focus before I start maybe getting older and maybe have kids, get married, things like that where you start to talk yourself out of things that you wanted to pursue. I didn’t want to do that.

Chal Ravens

So around this time you have the deal with MCA as a solo artist, and there’s a record in your catalog that I found which is a sampler, and it’s been labeled Quiet Storm Sampler. It’s got a few tracks, it’s got “What About This Love?” on it. It’s got “Closer,” and “On A Corner Called Jazz.” And I guess the label made it because they wanted to advertise you, to show radio stations, for instance, that there was this different side to your music.

Larry Heard

And then I think those were the stations that started playing... It was called quiet storm at that time. I don’t know, they probably have a new name now.

Chal Ravens

‘Cause this is a concept. American radio has some... It’s quite alien to me as an English person, the way that it’s structured, but the idea of the format is really important. What is quiet storm? Can you explain...

Larry Heard

I didn’t coin that term.

Chal Ravens

No, no, no, no.

Larry Heard

It’s just more related to maybe things with jazzier tones and things like that, I think they lump into that category.

Chal Ravens

And there would be radio shows all over the US that were quiet storm and they maybe were more mature, perhaps?

Larry Heard

That next age bracket, maybe after college and all that kind of thing.

Chal Ravens

And maybe for people who aren’t in the clubs all the time, who are just driving around or doing whatever. So tell me a bit about what you wanted to do at that point ‘cause you were starting to make some music that was a bit different maybe, you were broadening out slightly.

Larry Heard

Yeah, That’s what you want to do as a producer and a composer, you want to grow. The album was exactly what I wanted to do ‘cause it was already started before MCA came into the picture, and I think some other labels came to the table but MCA won out. So I was where I wanted to be. I think the next album was a shift where MCA has an idea, remembered New Jack Swing and the shuffle beats and all that stuff, Sybil, “Don’t Make Me Over,” and all that stuff. They wanted to try that ‘cause it was more proven in the world that they do business in. I didn’t know if it was the right fit for me, but I agreed to it, and it just fell on its face. I know I’m not a big record company executive like some of those guys, but I thought veering away from the audience that was already interested, to an audience that doesn’t even know who in the world you are, I didn’t think that was the wisest decision.

Chal Ravens

So that was the only time when you allowed the record label to make a suggestion.

Larry Heard

They definitely went their own direction. Again, more going to something that they were more confident about. I guess they have more experience selling those records with Guy and those groups.

Chal Ravens

I’ve read this enough times that I assume it’s true, but you’re here so you can confirm. Is it true that Sade personally asked you to produce her album?

Larry Heard

She didn’t ask me personally, it just came through the chain of people that come across each other. I think Stuart Matthewman. Maybe more him that ran into someone that knew me and passed a cryptic message along.

Chal Ravens

But not like a label suggestion, but there was...

Larry Heard

No, I think the labels... I think something got suggested. I have friends who have worked at labels at different points in their careers and they suggested things, and it’s always met with the reaction of, “Doesn’t he do house music?” So they always categorize it as a lesser form of music. You’re not qualified to work with our real artists. That’s only play music that people do in their bedrooms. Who knows what else is said in private about the music.

Chal Ravens

So you definitely felt that house was undervalued and not seen as musical somehow.

Larry Heard

It was. You could pretty much sense it in some people that they detested it in a way.

Chal Ravens

But it’s an interesting album that never got made, ’Cause really at the time, the stuff that you were making wasn’t too dissimilar to what Sade was doing. It was definitely in the same vein.

Larry Heard

I thought the same thing too. I was thinking about vocalists like Gwen Guthrie, Phyllis Hyman, Anita Baker. That’s where my mind was going, my wishful thinking, but it was just off limits, I think, to want to be involved in that.

Chal Ravens

Let’s hear just a little bit of this particular track because I think, if you imagine Sade coming in halfway through, it makes perfect sense. So this is, “What About This Love.”

(music: Mr Fingers – “What About This Love?”)

Larry Heard

[applause] Thank you.

Chal Ravens

Can I ask you to just explain to me what you said to me there about the vocal, which is you.

Larry Heard

Yes.

Chal Ravens

We haven’t heard you yet.

Larry Heard

It wasn’t supposed to be me, it was supposed to be David Hollister who was going to sing the song. He didn’t show up for the session so I just laid down a guide vocal, but then everyone started to really enjoy what I had done, so we ended up releasing it that way. And we had another scenario where this showed up on the Billboard charts with Lisa Stansfield right up under it, “All Around The World.” Again, another sticky situation.

Chal Ravens

[laughs] You’re quite good at accidentally doing a thing in the studio that’s the perfect thing.

Larry Heard

It’s probably more luck than anything. I didn’t deliberately know that would happen.

Chal Ravens

Tell me a bit about you as a singer though because that’s something that maybe is underplayed a bit, but you sing on a lot of your tracks overall.

Larry Heard

Yeah, I used to be more in the background in the bands I was in and different things like that, and working with Robert and Ron and Chris Coleman and some of these other folks. But when Robert moved to New York, I was in a sticky situation where it was like, OK, now what do I do? Ron Wilson’s voice wasn’t a good fit for some of the tracks I had, so I just tried to start doing some things myself after I got the reception I got with “What About This Love?” I just continued.

Chal Ravens

Do you like singing?

Larry Heard

It’s fun in the shower, [laughs] but it can be tricky when you’re doing it in a serious sense, hitting your notes right and all that fun stuff. You learn.

Chal Ravens

It’s interesting, as a comparison with... Let me see... Is it ’88 or so when you recorded it and then it maybe came out again later?

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

So at that time, again that’s Sade’s peak time and it’s a really interesting comparison, the level of poise and the way that you both hang back. They’re actually quite similar vocals...

Larry Heard

I’m definitely not a powerful singer like some of these people that belt out stuff. Like Robert can sing with a lot of power and Patti LaBelle, folks like that. Me, I don’t have that kind of power in my voice.

Chal Ravens

It seems to set the scene for what you go on to do, particularly in the next few albums with Sceneries Not Songs, this idea of perhaps creating more of a gentle mood. Is that something that you were trying to...

Larry Heard

Something I had more flexibility, as far as creativity to... Since it’s not a song, I don’t have to go by the song rule book, if that makes any sense, following any set patterns or the status quo.

Chal Ravens

So why choose then, “I don’t make songs, I make scenery?” Why does that even appeal to you?

Larry Heard

Well, this particular album is gonna be sceneries. I can make songs, but maybe not every time you wanna do that. You want something more freeform. That’s what Sceneries Not Songs... Even a project like Alien was more freeform. It was recorded in maybe seven or nine days. Pretty much I determined that each thing I record is gonna be on the album, so I was trying to do something really crazy to go along with the title that my manager suggested.

Chal Ravens

At this point, you stopped being Mr. Fingers.

Larry Heard

Yeah, that was after the MCA thing. This is ’92, ’93.

Chal Ravens

So for legal reasons...

Larry Heard

Well, just to make sure there’s no complications where they’re trying to forbid me from using it or anything like that. I went right to a name that I knew I could use and I don’t have to ask anyone’s permission. So another shortcut, like doing the label. You start to find ways around obstacles. Once you get over one, you get the confidence to try to face the next challenges. That’s what we did ‘cause we had no other choice. It was either face it and conquer it, or give up.

Chal Ravens

I wondered as well if there was a sense of using your real name as a milestone of, “Ah, this is the real me,” in some way?

Larry Heard

Not sure, but maybe subconsciously. I wasn’t really thinking of it from that perspective, but maybe you got a point.

Chal Ravens

So you’re releasing many different kinds of records in this period, because we’ve mentioned a few albums, but at the same time you’re still putting out more dance material on other different aliases.

Larry Heard

Gherkin Jerks, The Housefactors and The It, all those things.

Chal Ravens

And Robert had left, so you were working on your own a bit more. I mean you’d obviously acquired some newer gear here, ‘cause this sounds different.

Larry Heard

Yeah, my studio had been evolving since day one. Again, your confidence, you get something, people like it. Say, “Maybe it is work investing and getting something else to build the studio up.” Slowly, piece by piece.

Chal Ravens

And there’s a definite new digital sound in there, I think, or...

Larry Heard

This was at the studio, so I didn’t do it on two cassettes like I did a lot of things. Or even when I had a reel-to-reel, sometimes reel-to-reel to another reel-to-reel, just to do multiple takes. But then we discovered the studio through working with the Gherkin guys, and started working there and letting them handle some of the engineering chores instead of me trying to figure it out, kind of ad-libbing.

Chal Ravens

And were you usually an early adopter of new synths and stuff when they came out? Were you always eager to try the new stuff?

Larry Heard

No, just, right now, I’m still the last person... I don’t have an iPhone, [laughs] I don’t have a tablet and a watch and all that other stuff. I’m usually the one that... Just, again, observes and watches everyone else and hears their complaints and everything else, and say, ”Well, maybe I shouldn’t do that, then, if there’s so many complaints about this.” But I had to literally... I got laughed at by Frankie Knuckles because I was playing something by hand. We were playing “Distant Planet” in the studio, and he laughed at me ‘cause I wasn’t doing it with a sequencer. But I was doing it the way I knew how. And it was a few years later, I got in a production situation where I had to get a computer and start getting aware of the technology and building my skills up.

Chal Ravens

This is a good point to mention. You may not be able to see Larry’s shoes, but he just showed them to me. They’re 808 shoes. [applause]

Larry Heard

Yeah, Puma gave them to me.

Chal Ravens

They are the coolest shoes I have ever seen.

Larry Heard

I got the bass drum, so, yeah.

Chal Ravens

Oh, they’re different presets with different pairs.

Larry Heard

I don’t know, ‘cause I looked on the other shoe to see if it was different, but they’re both bass drum...

Chal Ravens

Gotta get the cowbell pair.

Larry Heard

Well, I need the whole set. I need the hi-hats and the cymbals and the toms. I need the works.

Chal Ravens

You need them to make the noise when you walk.

Larry Heard

Maybe the different colors, I don’t know.

Chal Ravens

Sorry, but you had to see that. I’m going to play... There’s a couple of tracks from this period that are all very different, and I’m just going to play a little segment of each because, again, as I was saying at the beginning, I think there’s so many different facets to Larry’s music that maybe don’t always get explored.

Larry Heard

Too bad we’re not at my house where you can start hearing the hip-hop tracks and the R&B things and some of everything, yeah. One day. Maybe they’ll see the light of day one day.

Chal Ravens

All unreleased material waiting.

Larry Heard

Yeah.

Chal Ravens

I would hope so. So I’m going to play a track from a record called Sceneries Not Songs, Volume One, and it’s called “Caribbean Coast.” All the tracks on this album, and the one after, I guess, have very evocative titles. They’re almost like settings.

Larry Heard

I think the titles, I always come up with those afterwards based on the feel of the music. I’ve never been to the Caribbean coast, but that’s what I imagine this kind of open, airy, kind of floaty thing to go along with the clouds and the horizon and the water and all that stuff, yeah.

Chal Ravens

So these are all kind of intuitive tracks that... You name them afterwards.

Larry Heard

Yeah. Pretty much all the tracks with these way-out names is just a product of, “What does this make me think in my mind?”

Chal Ravens

OK. Let’s just have a little bit of “Caribbean Coast.”

(music: Larry Heard – “Caribbean Coast”)

Larry Heard

[applause] Thank you. I haven’t listened to that in a while. I heard sounds I didn’t remember.

Chal Ravens

What was that inspired by musically? Because to me, it’s got a kind of a new age-y thing, an ambient thing happening...

Larry Heard

And maybe a little dose of reggae in there, a little bit... And which where all things... I was always listening to Tangerine Dream and Brian Eno and crazy things like that. I’m trying to remember the lady’s name that did an album for Apple. I can’t remember her name, but it was very abstract and different. And I guess some of those off the wall, abstract albums put me in the mood to do it, yeah.

Chal Ravens

Yeah, Eno definitely came up in my mind, because it reminds me of his very distinct Music For..., Soundtracks For..., and creating moods that were geographical, that kind of thing.

Larry Heard

OK.

Chal Ravens

At this point were you traveling a lot, or did you tend to stay at home in the studio?

Larry Heard

I started doing some things, live things, with Robert and Ron. The first Fingers Inc. appearances were just Robert ‘cause I didn’t know if I wanted to do the live stuff, but once we formed what we were calling a group now, I was more obligated to do it. And then we started to get such a great reception in the UK and Scotland and Ireland and places like that, Wales, that we got invited to go on the Trax tour. We weren’t even with Trax anymore...

Chal Ravens

Who was on that?

Larry Heard

... but we went on the tour.

Chal Ravens

Right. Who was on the tour?

Larry Heard

It was myself, it was Marshall Jefferson with On The House, Chip E., and Kevin Irving. Who else? Adonis. And I think Frankie Knuckles was supposed to be on it, but he already had other obligations where he wasn’t able to do it, so we got the honor of being the first house artists to come over, yeah.

Chal Ravens

And that was in Europe.

Larry Heard

Yeah. So, more UK and Scotland, yeah.

Chal Ravens

And what was the reception like in Europe compared to the US at the time?

Larry Heard

Well, it was like a madhouse in Nottingham and Birmingham, places like that. It was relatively quiet in London. So, yeah, you could pretty much count the people in the house there, ‘cause it really... London being a financial metropolis, I don’t think they were aspiring to be the first ones to break any music. So it was more the North where we got these receptions where it was like, “Who else is coming besides us?” They were there to hear us.

Chal Ravens

That’s interesting.

Larry Heard

Sort of surprising and encouraging.

Chal Ravens

There’s often, I think, a myth that some guys from outside London went to Ibiza and brought rave to the UK. But definitely in the North, there was always a very strong history of the Northern Soul, rare groove lineage, which I guess would have fit in.

I want to play a completely different track which is from a few years before, and it’s called “MIDI Beats,” it’s under your Gherkin Jerks alias. Tell me what the point of the Gherkin Jerks stuff was, because it’s pretty different.

Larry Heard

It was just a mad scientist project where I was more experimenting with cabling and patch bays and generating weird pulses using the arpeggiators and things like that that were on the synthesizers at the time. So, science project.

Chal Ravens

Science project. But you put this out anonymously, right?

Larry Heard

Yeah, that and Disco D, ‘cause you don’t really know what they’re going to amount to, so it was more a crazy experiment that someone is willing to release for you. I say, “Well, if you’re willing to release it, yeah, let’s do it, but let’s leave my name off. Just in case.”

Chal Ravens

So you kind of waited to see what the reaction would be. Then you can say, “That was me.” Only if it’s popular.

Larry Heard

Or some people who really can pick up on your flavor. Some people immediately knew, others discovered as they went along.

Chal Ravens

Yes. Maybe some people guessed. Let’s hear a little bit of this, because it’s pretty wild. And I think it’s really obvious that, again, this is another corner of Larry’s style that’s ended up being influential in its own way. And particularly, if you’re into labels like The Trilogy Tapes or LA Club Resource or L.I.E.S., or all of those noisy guys, it makes sense.

(music: Gherkin Jerks – “MIDI Beats”)

Larry Heard

[applause] Thank you.

Chal Ravens

It’s so minimal.

Larry Heard

Yeah. I think I was experimenting with the DJ tools concept, because again, you were more visiting clubs, seeing what they’re doing, taking note of different things. And me playing myself at home, I got plenty of records where they had either a capella or a drum beat or something like that where you’ve got to use it in your own fashion, however you want to apply it. So I wanted to participate in that.

Chal Ravens

Right. So actually, from seeing DJs and seeing what they could do, that helped you try new things that were useful.

Larry Heard

Yeah, help you navigate what to do that’ll work for them.

Chal Ravens

It’s interesting, ‘cause it seems as though you have this actually quite pragmatic approach to what to make, because you’re paying attention to what people want. Part of it is coming from your own ideas, but part of it is like, well, these people like a 4/4 beat, and the DJs would really be able to use this. Is that true? You’re kind of providing something that you know that people want?

Larry Heard

Well, I guess maybe you just recognize the need... “OK, this would fit in or be helpful.” Things like that. So it’s not me predicting what’s happening in the future or anything like that. It’s just more responding to something you see where there’s a lack of... I think we used to call them ‘minus one tracks,’ where either they had the vocal missing, where you’d use it like karaoke tracks, or to have the reverse, where a band would... It would be the rhythm track and you sing, or the reverse, the singing with no music for people to practice with, yeah.

Chal Ravens

Right, ‘cause it used to be the DJs, maybe like Walter Gibbons, and people who would have to make their own long edits of stuff so that they could DJ. But then, you’re like, well, I can give you that version for you. And then they don’t need...

Larry Heard

Yeah, and I think even after “disco sucks,” where the labels, the 12” format was already here, it’s like, what do we do with it now? So they maybe had some people who had some really interesting ideas. Well, let’s throw an a capella on, ‘cause where would be be without a capellas because people just enjoyed them so much. And again, the drum beats, the beat tracks.

Chal Ravens

I’m going to fast forward because we’re running out of time, but I just wanted to mention the fact that you’ve lived in Memphis for 20 years.

Larry Heard

21 years now, yeah.

Chal Ravens

So tell me about a day in the life in Memphis. What’s a typical Larry day in Memphis?

Larry Heard

There is no typical day. You just navigate each one. You just navigate each one, and it’s challenges that show up. So I really never know what’s going to happen. I know what I’m going to try to do, but then a lot of times, that doesn’t really work out. You end up going with another flow. So I try to do my office stuff, ‘cause if people forget about that, that there’s actual paperwork that has to be done and kept track of. And I try to delegate a certain amount of time for studio. I try to stay on the eight to ten to 12 hour kind of a thing to be normal, because some people work around the clock, and I at least try to be normal and try to get out and get in the sun and go outdoors, as opposed to being cooped up all day and all night.

Chal Ravens

Do you prefer to be in a city that’s not a typical dance city?

Larry Heard

I don’t think dance has really anything to do with where you choose to live. It’s more the peace, and that’s why I work out from Memphis. It’s a smaller population, so that means less stuff buzzing around you all day and all night, all this activity. I live in a regular neighborhood where older couples go to sleep and it gets quiet, and that’s when you have time to hear your own thoughts. And sometimes that doesn’t really happen, depending on how busy it is where you live.

Chal Ravens

I think we may have time for some questions. Yeah. Does anybody have some questions? Wow. I think maybe we also have a microphone, yes. We’ll go down the front.

Audience Member

One, two. Yeah. I’m feeling myself like one of The Pointer Sisters because I’m so excited. And I was lucky enough to hear you in St. Pete[rsberg], it was awesome. Thank you. And the question is, in the late ’90s, many electronic musicians play music and records using samplers, and they work with samples a lot. But in your songs, I guess it’s only synthesizers, yeah? Did you try...

Larry Heard

I did plenty of practicing doing hip-hop tracks and things like that. Finding cool samples just like anyone else. Unfortunately, none of those have been released, so no opportunity to really know about that. But I do it just to have things in your skillset, just in case there is an opportunity, I’m somewhat prepared. Yeah.

Audience Member

Thank you.

Chal Ravens

I don’t believe that nobody would put out a hip-hop track that you made. You could just put it out. Do we want to hear a Larry Heard hip-hop track? Yes.

Larry Heard

Yeah, maybe I’ll get around to it at some point. Sneak some in, an album project or something.

Chal Ravens

But sampling is... You’ve famously been sampled by a famous hip-hop artist as well.

Larry Heard

Oh, yeah.

Chal Ravens

Kanye sampled you pretty... Did he ask you?

Larry Heard

Yeah, it’s kind of hard to keep that secret. So it took a minute, but they finally got all the business taken care of with that, yeah. Which was cool.

Chal Ravens

What did you think of that track?

Larry Heard

It was cool. There’s a rich heritage of... Sugar Hill Gang, that first big hit for a rap artist, that was a Chic backdrop. So there always has been this cross-pollination between dance and the hip-hop world. I remember Larry Levan used to play hip-hop, and he played dance, he played Latin. It was kind of all over the place. It wasn’t one... He took you on an adventure with music, yeah.

Chal Ravens

Another question. There’s one over there.

Audience Member

Hi. First, big thanks to you and Mr. White for your fantastic performance in St. Petersburg.

Larry Heard

Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.

Audience Member

That was just amazing. And my question is... So now, in Moscow and in Russia, there are many musicians. Many of them are talented. Some of them are more commercial DJs. But for upcoming, talented, enthusiasts, so what advice would you give to modern beginners?

Larry Heard

I’m not sure, ‘cause the way the dance community has evolved where... When we first started, maybe there was just a handful of people daring to make these tracks. But now it’s so widespread that it’s closer to the mainstream music world, where the number of people who are trying to do it is just so great. I don’t know what I would advise other than...

Audience Member

Would you advise to...

Larry Heard

... Definitely doing something that expresses a uniqueness about yourself and your own personality, something that comes across different than every other track before it. It makes your ears stand up like, “Well, what’s this? This is definitely different.” I know that gets my attention, yeah.

Audience Member

Thanks.

Chal Ravens

This guy, yeah.

Larry Heard

Another one? OK.

Audience Member

Hello.

Larry Heard

Hi, how are you?

Audience Member

What would be your main advice to a musician in 2018?

Larry Heard

Everything I said to her. Just something that’s unique about your personality and what you do, how you approach it... That even if someone tries to duplicate it, they still have to follow behind you, because you’re the originator of it. So if you can do something unique...

Audience Member

Do you think it’s easier now to do that than it was back in your day?

Larry Heard

No. I would think it’s harder, again, just because of the sheer numbers of people who are doing it now. It’s literally tens of thousands of releases every day or every week.

Chal Ravens

There’s one over here. Microphone is coming.

Audience Member

Hello. So, thank you for your track “Can You Feel It.”

Larry Heard

Oh, thank you.

Audience Member

So, yeah, it makes me feel revolutionary to hear it. So I love it.

Larry Heard

Thank you.

Audience Member

Yeah, really, thank you so much. So can you tell the story of this track, because this is a stunning track.

Larry Heard

I can’t say there’s a specific story around the making of the track, because like I said earlier, I kind of ad-lib. So everything I do just out of improvisation. But I do recall, when I was listening back to it, I was looking out the window and snow was falling, and it looked like it was falling in slow motion, or I was just crazy or something. And a friend of mine named it. That was one of the few that I didn’t name myself. A buddy of mine was there and I said, “Well, what does this make you think of? What’s a good title?” And he came up with the title.

Audience Member

I feel it. Thank you.

Larry Heard

Thank you, thank you.

Chal Ravens

Do you have any specific things that you do in the studio to get yourself in the mood, in the zone?

Larry Heard

Well, I’m still trying to figure out specific things to do, because I’m never in the mood. Maybe I’ll call someone or just try to... I don’t know.

Chal Ravens

You have to force yourself.

Larry Heard

I have a problem with that. I end up calling someone else maybe that works on music, and I guess that helps me a little bit to get started and get motivated, yeah.

Chal Ravens

Do we have time for... two more, great. There’s one over there. I think there’s one here too. Whichever you like. One over here.

Audience Member

So, hi, Larry. Thanks a lot for coming. So the question is, I know now it is many kinds of house music today. So it’s bass house, progressive house, disco house. Which kind of house music do you yourself listen to, and what at least do you appreciate to listen, appreciate for people...

Larry Heard

Well, all the different sub-genres, I find that confusing, ‘cause I didn’t really come... Even in childhood, no one said, this is rock, this is soul, this is blues. Nobody set up those patterns. I just listened to Jim Croce and I just liked it. No one said it’s folk or that kind of thing. I listened to Santana, no one said it’s jazz rock. And nobody really made those distinctions. So I just heard the music that I liked the best out of all of those genres.

And I got really, really confused when a whole lot of styles started coming out of the UK in the early ’90s. I was like, well, you feel like it’s a homework assignment to remember all these names. Trip-hop and this-hop and... It was too complex. I just wanted to get straight to the music, as opposed to getting involved in semantics and the genre titles.

Audience Member

Okay. I’ll simplify the question a bit. Do you have any favorite modern artists, if I can say so?

Larry Heard

Favorite modern artists... It gets tricky when you’re out yourself traveling and doing performances yourself to hear other people, ‘cause your time is occupied doing other tasks. But I’m sure if I get on iTunes or something like that, I’m going to come across something I like.

Audience Member

OK, thank you very much.

Larry Heard

Thank you.

Chal Ravens

Somewhere here. Oh, it was the same question. Do we have another one? I can’t tell which of these people... One of them... You.

Audience Member

Hello. I know it was many Chicago pioneers has disappointed about Trax Records. So my question is, do you have some difficulties with copyrights for your early tracks, and can we expect official represses on vinyl?

Larry Heard

I’m not sure, ‘cause I don’t have masters, ‘cause some of that stuff was done on cassette tapes. So there are not even existing masters to some things, depending on how far back on the timeline they go. So if we can find clean tapes and things like that, maybe so. And there’s actual demand for it as opposed to us just putting them out and they just sit in the store and collect dust.

Audience Member

Thank you.

Chal Ravens

Just finally... So we had to wait about 13 years for a new album. Is there going to be another?

Larry Heard

Well, that wasn’t deliberate.

Chal Ravens

Are we going to have to wait that long for another one?

Larry Heard

I hope not. I’m trying to work on an album in the midst of everything else that’s going on, work on the next album, yeah.

Chal Ravens

That’s exactly the answer we want to hear. Can we please give a warm hand for Mr. Larry Heard? [applause]

Larry Heard

Thank you, thank you all for coming.