Lido Pimienta

Anupa Mistry

Please help me welcome the Polaris Prize winning singer, songwriter and producer from Barranquilla, Colombia via London, Ontario, Canada and Toronto, here to Calgary. Lido Pimienta. [applause]

Lido Pimienta

Humbled, very humble.

Anupa Mistry

Welcome. So, you’re back home in Toronto after spending some time in Colombia recording your – spoiler alert – new record. I want you to set the scene for us, because I don’t know how many people here have actually been to Colombia. Can you tell us about, I guess, Barranquilla? Who lives there? What does it look like? What does it sound like? What does it smell like? Take us to your home.

Lido Pimienta

OK. So, Barranquilla. I mean, my Barranquilla might not be the same Barranquilla for a lot of folks because I have never been a regular. I’ve always existed in this confused hyphen. Even though as a Colombian, I should fit in. But I never did because I was interested in electronic music from a very, very, very young age. I’m not supposed to, because I am half black and half indigenous, and we don’t really have those distinctions in Colombia. But to me, I was definitely one, because I went to this school called the Lyndon B. Johnson School where you’re not allowed to speak Spanish. It was very hard because everyone in my class was like Melanie and Stephanie and…

Anupa Mistry

It was an American school?

Lido Pimienta

Yeah, it was based in Colombia, but all of the morals and everything was taught from Catholic, capitalist, US-adoring point of view. So, I was a weirdo. Not only am I not blonde, blue eyes; my mom comes to school wearing these weird outfits. My food is cooked. Why don’t you just buy the... Those things. That it’s like… it was cultural. I would have kids come… They would take my hair, and they would put it under a microscope to study it, because why isn’t it straight? That was my Barranquilla. Because I went to this bougie private school, I rebelled against that because I didn’t feel welcome in that scenario. My Barranquilla. While the mainstream one is like Carnival. Yeah, it’s just Carnival and Sofía Vergara, she grew up there. I actually went to school with Sofía Vergara’s first cousin. She would drop by our school and everything would stop.

I would love it when she would come by, because everyone in Colombia is horny as f---. So, they would just stop. I would just leave the school. I would just go home and draw on my walls or whatever. My Barranquilla was metal. That was my sh-t. I would just grab a bus, and I would go to the south side of the city, which is not where the bougie people live, and I was in bands. I was 11 years old. My mom never knew that I was taking the bus to go to the periphery of the city to be in a hardcore metal band and scream into a microphone. But the microphones that we had were pieces of sh-t. All of our instruments were made or scraps that we found.

When I moved to London, Ontario, and I went to my first punk show, everything was like new. Orange. You know Orange, the brand? The whole set of Orange, but they’re punk. I just didn’t. It made no sense to me, and I even saw one of the kids being driven by their parents in a really fancy car. I’m like, “I thought that punk... Never mind.” It’s always been… I’m just confused. In Barranquilla, I just experimented and I was lucky because I was able to infiltrate metal, but also electronic music and also traditional music. My voice allowed that to happen. It was very diverse and very experimental and very dangerous for a 12-year-old. But, yeah, I still don’t drink, and I don’t do drugs, so it was fine.

Anupa Mistry

Maybe that might surprise people to hear that there’s a thriving metal scene in this Colombian city. It shouldn’t, but maybe you could tell us a little bit more about that world.

Lido Pimienta

I mean, I think Bogota has one of the biggest metal fan bases in the world. We compete with Scandinavia or whatever. But, yeah, it looks like some Colombian guy with very long hair sweating a lot because he’s wearing all black, and it’s very hot. It’s 31 every single day of the year. Freaks! We hate everything. My metal friends hated my electronic friends. I’m never going to forget, one of them was like, “You know what music you listen to? That electronic music? Let me give you a song right now. Tick, tock. Tick, tock. Tick, tock. You think that’s good?” That is excellent, actually. I love it, but that’s kind of how I grew up. I still don’t care.

I think that music is great. I think that music is great and you should love all of it. Because, also, we’re very mixed. We have Spanish blood. We have indigenous blood. We have black, and we have everything. When we listen to music, we are understanding it from so many points of view. I understand it. You play me anything, I will understand it immediately. It’s not confusing to me, and the more foreign [it is], I identify myself with it more. I don’t know, I think metal, I was just able to scream. Guttural. It just gave me this thing that I felt really good and safe. Because, another thing about Colombian culture is that it’s very... How do you say? It’s not fake, but it’s of appearance, appearances. We don’t have sweet 16. We have quinceañera.

Anupa Mistry

For 15.

Lido Pimienta

When you turn 15, what are you going to get? Are you going to get a flight somewhere? Are you going to get a car? Or are you going to get new lips or new boobs? A new ass, perhaps? I was the antithesis of that. When I turned 15, I threw a metal show in my apartment building and it was madness. But that’s what I did. So I was just this weirdo. Even at 16 years old, I’m walking down the streets of Bogota, and I will have people pointing at me like, “Look at that clown.” It would hurt me, but now I’m just like, “Yes! Bring your clown, yes girl.” Back then, you don’t understand it. You just feel like you’re so out of the narrative of what it means to be Colombian and what it means to be a woman, because the fact to… I wasn’t wearing the revealing and the tight – my mom, to this day, her dream is to see me wearing a J-Lo outfit on stage. “I just don’t think that it really goes with my message of indigenous sovereignty if I’m dressed like J-Lo, mother.” But, she can dress like J-Lo, and she does. So, good for her.

Anupa Mistry

I wish we had some of the metal you grew up listening to, to play, but we do have some Colombian music that you told me you grew up listening to. Let’s listen to something that is not metal, but is from Colombia. Do you want to set it up? This is this track.

Lido Pimienta

[looks into laptop] Oh, “Chambacu?” If people here are in electronic music, you probably heard this in some mix. This song has been remixed, I don’t even know how many times. A lot of producers around the world will email me and ask me if I want to do a version of this song, but the invitation never comes with a cheque attached to it. So I’m like, “No.” But, yeah, this song is from Aurita Castillo. She was a child when she did this. She had this group, and the song is called “Chambacu.” Chambacu used to be, I don’t know, the closest equivalent would be a reservation. The town doesn’t really exist anymore. It’s like this legend where it’s just one of the places where black people or slaves would start making their homes. The second place is San Basilio de Palenque. San Basilio de Palenque actually was the first free town from slavery in all of the Americas. They have this relation, but what I like about this track is because I could see myself, because the track is really somber, as it is happy. I’m all about that.

(music: Aurita Castillo – “Chambacu” / applause)

Anupa Mistry

So, that’s a cumbia track. Can you tell us about cumbia?

Lido Pimienta

Well, I think that track is really good, because it shows the nuance of cumbia. Because, cumbia is this genre that takes many shapes and many forms from central to South America. In the States, too, the new generation of cumbia, native folks in North America are making cumbia. So, this is just one of the many faces and shapes that cumbia takes. Cumbia is very important for Colombians, especially on the North Coast. I’m from the North Coast, and we love to dance our cumbia, and it’s part of an identity.

Why I love this song is because this song is happy, and at the same time, it’s very somber. When the guy starts saying [imitates somber, deep voice], “Chambacu,” that’s very… The intonation is not what we’re supposed to or used to listening to in cumbia, which is [imitates high pitched singing]. That is cumbia, but this is... No, we’re going to get this little nine-year-old tell us about how much she loves her borough that is no longer going to be here. We’re going to talk about how much we love it, even though a lot of classism and racism happens because that’s also another sad trait of Colombia.

We hate ourselves. We love ourselves when it’s Carnival season, and then back to hating ourselves. Cumbia, the cumbia in Argentina, cumbia is huge, but it also is frowned upon as the music of the poor. But, then there’s all this new movement of DJs and producers that are taking cumbia, and they’re adding modern beats to it. Now, it’s like, “Well, yes, cumbia at the club.” But, I think it’s also normal in any traditional music. These are the waves of it, but to me, you can add any beat to any cumbia music, but this track, it needs nothing. It needs nothing, and it’s still as relevant today as it was 50 years ago.

Anupa Mistry

Can you give us a bit of... Your music really deals in the fact that you’re an indigenous woman. You’re a black woman. You’re Canadian. You’re singing in Spanish about all of these things and what it is like in this body. But, I’m wondering, and you kind of gave us a bit of background. You went to this school, and you’re seen as quite different, and Colombian society is stratified in certain ways. But how did your consciousness around these ideas actually develop to the point where you’re like, “OK, this is something I need to put into my arts practice, or this is something I want to engage with through art.”

Lido Pimienta

It didn’t, like a eureka moment. It didn’t happen, because this is just a part of my reality, and I grew up with my mother’s family, which is the indigenous side. When in your classroom, when you’re a tween, and the cliques are developing, and you want to be cool, and you want everyone to like you, but you just don’t fit. You’re always going to be a weirdo because everyone is going to Miami, Orlando for vacations or summer break or whatever, but you’re going to the desert to help your uncle kill a lamb and then learn how to properly get rid of the blood and use everything in the animal. That’s not cool. That’s not cool. How am I going to top going to Orlando Studios with, “Yeah, there’s no toilets in the desert”? That’s not… Growing up like that, it’s just my experience. I just speak about my reality. I don’t sit on a rainy day and decide, well, today, I should really write about how hard it is to deal with my period, and I should really talk about... I don’t do that. It just comes when I’m changing my baby’s diaper, when my son comes, and he’s like, “So, what happens after we die?” “Can you ask me later? Let me figure it out myself. Then I can tell you.” I’m washing the dishes for the kid. A song will come, and then it happens to be about giving birth.

Anupa Mistry

So, when you’re 11, signing in this metal band, were you singing about what you were experiencing in school?

Lido Pimienta

I wasn’t singing about what I was experiencing in school, because to me, that was normal. I didn’t know that it was f---ed up, what was happening, and the micro-aggressions and the violence that I was experiencing and the other-ing that I experienced by teachers and the kids alike. It didn’t really make sense until I moved to Canada, where we actually have those conversations. In Canada, we talk about everything. There is a couch for everything in Canada. In Colombia, if you start talking about anything, you have to do it in someone’s home. Lock the door, no one can know what’s happening because someone can get hurt. Trans issues and indigenous issues. When the president just got elected, in the week that he was elected, over 25 activists were killed in their homes, decapitated. So, that’s one of the reasons why I moved. When my mom started realizing what I was singing about…

Anupa Mistry

What were you singing about, though?

Lido Pimienta

The government and the president, the oppression as young people, and because I was able to escape the bougie bubble of the Lyndon B. Johnson School, I would experience what kids my age were experiencing in the peripheries. I was like, “This periphery is very similar to what happens in the desert in the North Coast of Colombia, in La Guajira which borders Venezuela. OK, I need to talk about this.” Even if I wasn’t conscious about it, that’s just my life. I was just talking about how oppressed we were, how I couldn’t wear whatever I wanted because of the... Here, there’s cat calling. Over there, it’s straight-up sexual abuse. It’s sexual abuse with young, little, little kids.

Taxi drivers, again, at 15 in a cab by myself, hell no. You have to go with a whole crew because bad sh-t can happen to you. I was not happy with those things. I also was reading a lot of Naomi Klein and just learning about Angela Davis. I was the only 12-year-old that was reading this stuff. That will just add to this weirdo. Yeah, but in the future, you’re still going to be needing your parents to take care of you, and that’s not going to be my narrative. That’s just what I did. It’s still what I do now. When people are like, “Lido, how can we cure racism in Canada?” My name is not Lido. Right? When they say that to me, I’m just like, “Talk about it.” I don’t know. There wasn’t a moment that defined. No, it was just occurrence. It’s just my life. I just put it out there.

Anupa Mistry

So, we’re going to hear something that you… some of your music in a second; but I guess before that, what is the kind of... What do you see as the thread between your early metal days and the music that you’re making now, aside from the content? Just in terms of the expression, whatever you’re getting from the art making itself. Do you see a connection between that and the kind of music that you’re making now?

Lido Pimienta

I’m just tough. I’m tough, and metal is tough. It’s angry. Really, screaming is great. Releasing that anger is really great. I’ve gone through a lot of turmoil and tragedy and bad stuff, so when I’m on stage, I’m very empowered, and I feel like I’m the baddest bitch when I’m on stage, and that’s my stage. I always say it. I feel bad for whoever has to perform after me, because I just demolish that. It makes me feel really good that even for those 45 to an hour minutes, I was able to just bring it. It just feels really good [grunts]. It just feels really good when you’re like, [grunts]. That feels great. That just feels really good, then you hit them with that [grunts] and then, you go [sings softly] like that. To me, that’s f---ed up. Yeah, I just went from down here to all the way up here, like life. Because your life changes in a second. In a second, your life will be f---ed up or really happy. With me, the good... Immediately after something good happens, some f---ed up thing happens. OK, I’m just expressing myself, guys. I’m just living my best life as best that I can.

Anupa Mistry

With that, let’s listen to a track from 2010, your first LP called Color. It’s called “Humano.” “Humano”?

Lido Pimienta

“Humano.”

Anupa Mistry

“Humano.”

(music: Lido Pimienta – “Humano” / applause)

So, what can you tell us about that track? It came out in 2010. It’s from your first record. I wanted to play that because I think we were talking, and I feel like your sound is... That’s kind of the foundation of your sound, and you’ve built up and around it. But, yeah, tell us about that song. Then we can talk a little bit about the first record in general, too.

Lido Pimienta

Yeah, so the… Color was a group or collection of songs that I had written while I was in Colombia. Then I moved to Canada, learned about…

Anupa Mistry

You were 16 when you moved to Canada.

Lido Pimienta

I was 19.

Anupa Mistry

Oh, 19, wow.

Lido Pimienta

I was 19, and then I met baby dad number one, had a baby, went to school. When I was making, well, this song, I wrote actually in Canada after... Any of you saw the Polaris thing, when I was talking about an Aryan specimen that told me to go back to my country? That song, I wrote after someone told me to go back to my country. It was about this thing with orders and just trying to understand who I am or where I am, or where am I going? And, how in the end, we’re just human.

Also, I forgot to mention El Salvador in there, so I’m sorry, El Salvador. Next year is going to be ten years of that album, or ten years of Lido Pimienta in music out there. So I should do another version and include El Salvador. So, mental note, but yeah, just music. Where does it come from? It comes from how music heals and how music is always there for me. So, when I put this thing on Myspace, I didn’t know what was going to happen because I just put it out there so that I could continue to be in touch with my friends in Colombia. So, we’re on Myspace. That was the only intention that I had. I came to this country with the sole intention of becoming a visual artist and art curator.

I still have this idea of going back and making my own artist-run center or academy, music academy. I still want to do that, but someone heard it on the Myspace, and it happened to be South America’s biggest pop star. That catapulted into, “OK, well now you have to go on tour.” But that was it. It was just an opportunity to be recording music and learning to record myself was just learning about my voice and how I can use my voice. Later, I was introduced to loop pedals and loop stations and drum machines. All of that helped me just expand at least the composition side. When I’m talking introduce, it means a quick search on YouTube.

Anupa Mistry

Yeah, I was going to ask you what that education comprised…

Lido Pimienta

Yeah, girl. I didn’t have no time to go to no school for production or nothing like that.

Anupa Mistry

So you were learning as you were making?

Lido Pimienta

Yes! Because when baby daddy went back to the States, I moved to Toronto. Because I was living in London, Ontario. I moved to Toronto, and I was like, “Here I am with my kid.” It was tough, right? Because, I had two roommates. It was tough, but it was great too at the same time. The room that I shared with my son was my first music studio. I got a little Novation [keyboard]. I was like, “How do you do this? And how do you do that?” But, always having in the back of my mind, “I need to go back to this, my voice,” because that song, “Humano,” it has so many remixes. I’ve lost count, just so many remixes.

I always get, it’s always the Germans, always the Germans. “I made this. I made this remix. I hope you like it.” I’m like, “Publisher, are they paying for this? Let me know. Yes, I love it.” But, yeah, that’s when I learned electronic music is just, you know what? This is cool. I can transform a very beautiful, soft song, and I can take it to all these other places. That really set foot into what would come after, when I moved to Toronto and I met my friends. I met the scene, the electronic scene in Toronto. That’s when I became friends with my friends there. That’s when I was like, “OK, everything is going to be okay.” I met Kvesche Bijons[-Ebacher]. He’s also known as Spawn of Sid and Blake McFarland, Blake Blakely. We started making music together. It was the most special, wonderful moment as a single mother who had a horrible breakup, and thinking that I wasn’t going to be able to make music on my own. That was super great. Then I met Robert Drisdelle. He’s from Halifax. He’s a composer who plays the clarinet. I was like, “Oh, clarinet, I’m going to teach you porro baby.” So, that’s what we did. Then, Brandon Valdivia, he’s in this group. His project is called Mas Aya. He also used different flutes from different countries. All of us got together. We’re really making this. Then, I always admired Prince Nifty. Look up Prince Nifty right now. Go, find him, because his music is amazing. Tenderness was another person that I was like, “I need to learn from these people.” That’s how slowly the sound in La Papessa started building. Me and Nifty would meet way later, but I was still listening to his music, and just, “I need to learn how to make these beats.” So, that’s basically how I was able to survive. I don’t even remember the question, but...

Anupa Mistry

That’s okay. We can move on to: You mentioned your voice being kind of this... I guess it is the foundation of the sound. But it being [also] kind of a way for you to kind of reach into other genres, by laying out this simple, beautiful, vocal track. Can you talk a little bit about how you approach the vocals in your music because you’ve got... First of all, you use a lot of repetition and you’re using the looper, you’ve got these different harmonies. What’s your approach to kind of creating the vocal soundscape for your music?

Lido Pimienta

Well, Colombian music and the one that I particularly am drawn to the most, which is in the cumbia, tambura, bullerengue and sexteto realm, it’s all about call and response. When people talk about tribal music, well this is the deal. Call and response is this thing of respect and it’s also the thing of including everyone in the song. Making everyone feel like they have a say. I’m all about that. Palmas, just clapping and repeating a phrase. It’s like you enter this trance. That’s why I love it. When I was introduced to this – again, you have to research – the pedal I use, I was like, “OK, very cool. I can have a group of people made of myself.” When I started working with the loop pedal, I didn’t really have friends that I could sing with. My voice had to do it, and even one of the songs that I did for the first album, I wanted this big choir. I sent out this email to the local musicians and no one paid attention to it. Then, when we put it online it had hundreds of thousands of streams in the first three hours or whatever. I was like, “Well, I guess my voice is enough then.” Opportunities like that, when someone says no, you still go for it. When someone doesn’t believe in you, you still do it. When someone tells you that’s weird, well guess what? There’s a lot of weird people out there that are gonna like it and I’m gonna make my coin anyways, thank you. With that rhetoric, I’ve been able to live in a very expensive-ass city and have two kids, you know what I’m saying? That’s just where it came from. I have a strong voice. Not only am I loud, I love to talk about myself, but I also like when people are listening. Then that is my opportunity to bring us together because sh-t is f---ed up.

There was a horrible terrorist white supremacist attack yesterday in New Zealand. That sh-t happened here in Montréal and it’s like we have selective memory. It’s like, “It’s not happening. I’m gonna buy the new Yeezys.” Believe me, I love me some shoes. I love that sh-t, but I also want my kids to have a future. I don’t wanna be afraid when I walk down the street. I have to use my voice. If I don’t use my... Then what am I doing? Because if I just wanna make money, then that would be even easier for me because [puts on soft voice], “I can just talk like this and...”

Anupa Mistry

Put on the J-Lo dress.

Lido Pimienta

[speaks with Latina accent] “Just talk really Latina because being Latina…” And really work in that fetish that Latin women have and use that to my advantage. I have no problem with taking money from people that are fetishizing me. I have no problem with doing that, but at the same time, there’s enough of that. Of what is expected of me as a Latin American, Colombian. There’s enough of that, so I just do whatever I like. Seems to be working, let’s see how far I can go.

Anupa Mistry

Let’s listen to a track that I think pulls in some of this personal narrative that I think you’re talking about here. It’s from La Pepessa, which is your second album and it’s called “La Capacidad.”

(music: Lido Pimienta – “La Capacidad” / applause)

“La Capacidad.” I feel like we can hear all of those things we were just talking about in that. The repetition, the stacking of the vocals. But do you want to tell us a little bit about what that track is about and why it was important for you to... It’s a centerpiece of your performance I feel.

Lido Pimienta

If you ever go to a Lido Pimienta show, it’s a little bit of this, a little bit of that. A little bit of stand-up comedy, because I’m always like, if the album doesn’t work out I will try stand-up. If that doesn’t work out, then I will try to be a cartoon voice. If that doesn’t work out, I will move back to Colombia and I’ll just teach English. I have it all... You need a lot... I’m a Virgo. Anyways...

Anupa Mistry

You’re a woman with a plan.

Lido Pimienta

After big daddy number one, I met who I thought was the best man in the world because he wasn’t an artist. That’s it. The qualification where: Don’t be a musician. You’re the best. This guy wasn’t a musician, although in his head he was. Electronic musician. We were dating and everything was nice, but then it wasn’t nice. I had to break up with him because he became very violent and controlling and that just wasn’t a good look. I broke up with him, but then he didn’t wanna break up. He started sending me all these terrible messages and one of the messages was, “If you don’t come back to me, I will put naked photos of you online.” New to Canada, I didn’t really have a community and the few friends that I did have were my white friends that they’re, “Go to the police.” It’s like, “I can’t explain to you how that’s not gonna work for me.” I did everything that I could to not have this guy harass me and I had to call my mom. I called my mom because she would know what to do. She was like [puts on voice], “Let me give this guy a call. I got you girl.” She was like, “Hello, Ryan. I am the mother of Lido Pimienta, Rosario Pasquez. How are you?” He was like, “Yeah, your daughter, blah, blah, blah.” And she’s like, “Well she tell me you want to put the naked picture in the internet. Put the naked picture in the internet right now. When it happened to Kim Kardashian, she became a millionaire. I don’t want to work in the factory anymore, so please put the picture in the internet.” He called me back and he was like, “Your mother is crazy and you’re crazy. I don’t even want to be with you in the first place.” Mixed messages. Because right after, a man sends you a picture of himself crying. Like what do I believe? Your tears or your angry voice? I just wrote that song and that’s the story.

Anupa Mistry

That’s a great story. I know you’ve told it a million times, but you know...

Lido Pimienta

Never tired of telling it. F--- you motherf---er. [laughter]

Anupa Mistry

You are a Canadian musician. You’re winning Canadian prizes, [Lido makes air quotes] Canadian, collaborating with a nice range of Canadian…

Lido Pimienta

[puts thumbs up] I love the Canadian government! [laughter]

Anupa Mistry

You’ve collaborated with, I think, a nice range of Canadian artists actually. Something that’s quite interesting to me is the types of people you’ve been able to connect with: Austra, Shad, Narcy, Tribe Called Red. Have you collaborated with Tanya Tagaq or are you just friends? [Lido nods] OK, collaborated with Tanya, Sidani.

Lido Pimienta

Witch Prophet.

Anupa Mistry

Witch Prophet. But you’re also making music that I think for many people scans as quite Colombian. You’re singing in Spanish and I’m not so interested in why you choose to sing in Spanish, clearly you’re comfortable singing in Spanish and that’s fine, but what have you experienced playing this music out, playing shows in non-Spanish speaking communities and cities. How are people listening to that music? How are they receiving it and what does that tell you about the way people respond to your music?

Lido Pimienta

I think that people don’t mind... I mean, the States is no problem, everyone there speaks Spanish. If you don’t, you speak it by association. In Canada, I’m just fresh, I’m lit. I bring something exciting and people are into it and I’m very vocal and it’s exciting to be a part of whatever I do. I wish I could write a song in English. I wish, but the stuff that comes out is sad. I think that’s what it is. I have this line since, I don’t know, like ten years ago. It’s like [stands up and sings], “Interior design for brain-washing facilities.” That sh-t is sad, right? Then, I was like, “No. I’m gonna write a song in English!” I was like [sings], “I’ve hit an all-time low. I’ve hit an all-time low.” I don’t have the look for that kind of music. That would be confusing. My sh-t is like, “Hey! Hello!” It’s a brand thing. [laughter]

If I do the songs in English because I want to tap into that coin, I do. It just don’t come out. Also, the kind of stuff that I write are very cerebral because I like the music to be non-complicated. I like the music to be fun. I want everyone to be able to play it. I want everyone to remember it. I don’t do like: Now the syncopation is gonna start here and then it’s gonna go there and then I’m gonna do this complicated... No, that’s not what I do. But the songs are a lot of nuance, a lot of poetry. They’re very dark and somber, but it’s always like Colombian music. Colombian music and Colombian dance is all about mocking the slave master. Like Son de Negro, for example, is this dance where the dancers are making this crazy movement and they’re making these weird faces the entire time because they’re mocking, but they’re not saying, “F--- you, slave master.” They’re saying, “We’re having so much fun here by the fire singing our song.” The slave master is just like, “Oh, there are those slaves just at it again with their noise, their bullerengue.” Bullerengue means loud noise like “boo-ya.” That was it, it’s just like let’s just do our thing without telling you, but I’m still gonna do whatever I want. That’s what I do. It’s almost like a secret, but also in this landscape, people are open to listening to music in other languages that are not English. But trust the English record is coming. Trust.

Anupa Mistry

You’ve got a little bit of English here and there on your new record, which we’ll talk about in a bit. I think there are also probably some people in this room, and people watching, who might speak a language other than English, maybe are contemplating making music in a language other than English. What have you learned about the utility and the viability of making Spanish language music in a predominantly non-Spanish speaking language market?

Lido Pimienta

Haven’t thought about it that much, other than sometimes I’ll mess up the lyrics, like no one’s gonna know. I’m more confident when I do it, which means that the performance is better. It’s more true to who I am. It’s always good. If you’re pretending to be something that you’re not and someone that you’re not, the commitment to that has to be great so that you don’t slip. If you’re gonna create this persona, be 100,000% committed to that. Because this persona is myself, I don’t really have to think about it because it’s just what I do. I’m singing in Spanish just happens to be... It’s not like I am so proud to represent the Spanish language. I’m not Spanish. I’m not. Spain is the boogeyman too. It’s another colonizer language.

What I want to do is that I want to do an album in Wayuunaiki, the language of my people, the Wayuu. [points to bag] This is our stuff. The music will look like this, sound like this. That is what I want to do, but first I’ve got to learn my way. I’ve got to experiment. I also don’t have the time that I used to have before having children. I have to be very intentional with the things that I do. I have to be very organized in the things that I do because I have to... I only have a two-hour slot after the baby goes to sleep before I get tired. I have to make sure that I have enough time for my son that’s growing up in this world and he has the, “What happens after you die?” questions, but he also has the questions about like, “What is birth control?” I have to...

Anupa Mistry

Be a mom.

Lido Pimienta

Yeah, I have to be a mother. I cannot wait until he turns 12, so he can learn about birth control, but right now it’s all about experimenting, but at the same time knowing who I am. I actually feel very grateful that I came to live in this new reality at 19 and not at seven, not at four. I’m able to go every year, I’m keeping up with this link. I’m a part of my community and it’s ever-changing. I’m showing you that it can be done. Anything, with a nice calendar and saving up and not spending money on stupid sh-t that you don’t need, you’ll be able to at least have a good record that’s gonna sound decent on whatever, the speakers from the laptop.

Anupa Mistry

I think it sounds a little better than that. Speaking of slaying, let’s hear a track that connects you back to your home, but also connects to me, [points to t-shirt] the number one Rihanna fan. This is a rework of a very well-known Rihanna song and you called your version “Camellando.” Let’s listen to that.

(music: Lido Pimienta – “Camellando” / applause)

That was your song “Camellando,” which is a rework of Rihanna’s “Work.” What can you tell... I like the story of what this song is about. I think it’s important.

Lido Pimienta

It is very important because every major song, every major name, Katy Perry, all those major whatever songs, people will cover them. This song was, I feel like there’s probably a Guinness Record on how many times this song was reworked. The infamous cover of the woman that was like, “I am going to sing it so that everyone can understand it because Rihanna is just singing gibberish.” I was like, “What? Let me see who’s doing one in Spanish.” And then I was looking at the ones that were done in Spanish, and they were not good. People were translating the words because… There’s one thing is a translation, another thing is an interpretation. For those of us who speak more than one language, we understand that it just doesn’t work if you translate word by word.

One of the covers, the guy was singing, “Ación, ación, ación,” as in, “Work, work, work.” Like, “Action, action, action.” The adjective, it’s just like... He was trying to do it in this romantic way, just like soft light and like, “Ación, ación, ación. Llegó a tener el control.” Horrible. Then I saw another one and it was terrible. I was just like, “I got to represent!” I went to my buddy’s studio, Josh Cole. He’s a great bassist based in Toronto. He has this nice studio and I was like, “Let me just put the track.” Then I did “Camellando.” Camellando means working. That’s a slang for work. When you say, “I’m at work.” You say, “Esto en el camello,” camello means camel. I don’t know why we say that, but that’s what we say in Barranquilla. “You’re riding your camel on my camel.” Maybe it’s because riding a camel is hard and you’re working hard? I don’t know, but that’s what we say.

I just did my interpretation of what the song was about, that to me was emotional labor. I was drawing from a lot of street here. Street food is very regulated. It’s like, food truck, here’s the food truck area for an authentic shawarma. This regulated, FDA approved. Colombia, we don’t got no regulation for nothing. You see a woman in the street with oil from three months ago frying up the fries or whatever with her three kids. The older kid will be the one taking the deliveries. Before Uber Eats there were Colombian children taking food to your door. We just don’t have the technology to profit from that app. Yeah, so that’s where the song came from. Then, I put it out, went to sleep, woke up and it’s like, “Woah, Lido Pimienta’s comeback.” I’m like, “Are you kidding me?” I don’t want this kind of attention for someone else’s song, but I took advantage of it. I rode that wave. It was cool. It was just like, “Oh yeah, I should use my SoundCloud more often.” Actually, I should because Branko emailed me about being in his album and I didn’t see it [until] like six months later. Then, I’m like, “Yeah, I have this new record. You should be on it.” I’m just like, “Yeah, totally! Wait, I’m about to give birth. Let’s try the next one.” Lesson, check your SoundCloud inbox. It’s not just sex invitations. There’s some good... [laughter] Anyways.

Anupa Mistry

Sounds so polite, a sex invitation.

Lido Pimienta

Yeah. I support sex work.

Anupa Mistry

I’m glad you brought up emotional labor and one of the things I appreciate about you so much, I don’t really know very many women in my life and I know a lot of strong, talented, busy women, but you really live all aspects of your womanhood I think. If… Your baby who’s here, shout out baby, if she needed you, you might bring her up here.

Lido Pimienta

My kid is the best.

Anupa Mistry

It’s not easy for women to be an artist or journalist or whatever the case may be and then also be these other things. How has your art... Or maybe it’s not your art. How have you... I hate the question where do you get your confidence from, but how do you find a way of living so fully like that? It’s not easy.

Lido Pimienta

Well, I always say carry a calendar, just write the stuff down that you have to do. Really visualize how you want to see yourself, put it out in the universe. It’s very important. To me, I don’t surround myself with people that are not creative. I don’t waste my time sharing my gift with people that are only there to take them from me. I don’t waste my time with having people around who have no ambition, who have no morals, who have no focus. I don’t hang out with people that are just there to hang out. No, if we’re going to hang out, then I’m going to need you to please take the garbage downstairs while I finish this song. A lot of us, growing up with... I didn’t grow up with Instagram. I may look it, but I come from a generation that if you wanted something, you really needed to go get it. It wasn’t like… now it’s this era of influencers and all this stuff, but even influencers which, their careers are purely based on their aesthetic, they still have to think about their looks. They still have to have this discipline and that’s how you’re going to see the results. For me, it’s like I have to surround myself with friends that can take care of kids, that are confident, and that believe in me so when I go on tour and I have to leave my son for two weeks, I’m not worried. That only happens if you really build those relationships with people that are there for you.

A lot of my friendships that are no longer, people that are no longer in my life is... We had to break up because my success or my ambition was something that they weren’t cool with. They’re not cool with it because it’s like, “Well, what about me?” It’s just like, “Well, I’m here for you. We can do it together,” but people don’t want to do anything together. People want to be the number one. I wanna have my kids. I had my son when I was 21. I wanted to have my son when I was 20 because I had this vision, when I’m 40 my son’s going to play the piano, I’m going to keep it in the family. That’s just what has to happen, but I had him when I was 21 and I was like, “Well, it’s close to 20, it’s fine.” Then, I was like, “OK, I have this tour. Then, at this moment I’m gonna finish the album. Then, I’m gonna start the tour over here, but then the baby’s gonna be a year old. If I have her this month, she’ll be a year old and then I’ll be able to go on tour.” That’s exactly what I did. I told baby daddy number two, “You better get me pregnant because it has to happen before 2017 because the album has to be...” I just have to organize and have control of my body, really know what’s happening with my body, really download all the tracking period apps and learn what is a vagina. What? Really understand yourself. If you do want to have kids in the industry, in any industry, if you want to have your baby daddy next to you or a partner, this partner has to be 100,000% with you being the star of the show. Baby daddy number two is all about that. He’s like, “Yes, girl. Yes, become rich so that I don’t gotta work. Girl, yes.” Well, that’s not what he does, but he’s there for me and I’m there for him. We really are a team. Just like my team, my management, they’re awesome and they really help me in the things that I want to do and I always have a wild idea after another and you need people to tell you, “Yes. This is awesome.” Instead of, “Really?” When people start saying that to you, cut. I always say that.

The second thing that I say, “If you take a group photo and they post it and they look great and you look a mess, you got to cut those people off your...” Cut, because that’s a really simple way of knowing if they care about you or not. In this era, where you can find your next life-long partner on the Instagram and now the opportunity is over because you look a mess? You got to cut, ta-ta-ta. That’s how I’m able to do it. I am very organized and I know exactly what I want and I know exactly how I’m gonna get it. I come from a place where people don’t have opportunities because what opportunities can you have when there’s no running water? We got it good. We got it so good, so why are you spending whatever, $400 a week in weed? Why? Justify it to me. Kurt Cobain started smashing guitars after he had money. When he didn’t have money, he took care of those guitars. That’s how he did it. Then, he became really rich and he’s like, “Give me ten guitars. I’m gonna smash them on this tour.” Fine, but right now it’s like be very careful with your money and the people around you because we do, as artists, producers, dancers, writers, whatever, we are cultural. We hold this cultural power. We need to be able to use it so that we can grow, so that that cultural power grows. You decide what you want to do with it, but whatever that is what you want to do, you’ve got to put it in your mood board. You got to put it in the mood board and surround yourself with people that will be there for that, for that vision.

Anupa Mistry

Part of what surrounds you is your actual family, your children, your partner, very close friends. I really like that about you. You don’t have this very sealed off artist life where you’re just around other artists and it’s very industry and this, that and the other. Your baby goes wherever you need to go, but for people who are not a parent or maybe who don’t want to be a parent, I still think that there’s something you can pull here when it comes to community. You’ve talked about it a bit, but maybe just, what is the value of a community? It doesn’t just have to be people who will come to your show or people who will play on your track. Beyond that, how can community help people in this room and people who are watching, build their careers?

Lido Pimienta

My community are my comadres. Just a bunch of women that have been there for me since I moved to this place. We all have a lot of ambition. We all help each other get to where we want to go. I think it’s really good when people say, “I don’t want to have kids,” because there’s a lot of us in the world already. I think a lot of people fantasize to this idea of parenthood or motherhood. I think that’s really great. It’s all about that own ambition and your vision of who you want to be or who you are. The children thing will come, when you’re ready. I need my community to tell me when I’m doing something f---ed up. Friends are not just people that are telling you how amazing you are all the time. I don’t have a lot of industry people around me. Unfortunately, when I’ve met some of my heroes and sheroes in the industry, I get wildly disappointed. Especially people that are surrounded by material wealth. People that don’t have the material wealth want that wealth for themselves. You get this culture of leeches, that just want to be a part of that, because artists, ’cause we are narcissists, because we are very weak emotionally, because a lot of us have been rejected by family members, ‘specially if you’re queer or trans or you’re gay or lesbian, a lot of us have that story. That backstory of, “Oh well, my parents love me. I just can’t come over for Christmas.” Everyone has that story. When we find people that are telling us we’re wonderful, fabulous, amazing, it’s dangerous too.

I have people, I have my friends that will be, “Oh girl, your edges are busted!” I need that. I need that because I’m not super woman. I don’t have super powers. That’s why you have friends, so that they can tell you, “You’re f---ing up,” or, “I support you in your whole journey, but this guy, this guy, they’re no good for you girl and here are the receipts.” You need that in your life. You need that to protect yourself and protect one another. If I start accepting all of these new friendships, and when people come to me and they’re overly like, “Oh my God, I really...” Crying and stuff, I’m just, I shouldn’t have that reaction because you don’t know me. That is something that kids starting in this industry game… don’t let yourself be fooled, and think that everyone has your best interest in mind. I started when I was very young. When I released that first album, because of my being so naive and thinking that everyone had the best intentions for me, I had labels completely taking advantage of me.

I’ve written songs that have been taken from me, that have won Latin Grammys. I’ve had people just straight up, in my house talking and being interviewed and saying very smart things that sound exactly like what I said in my living room two days ago. You know? Stuff like that, you have to be very careful with who you let or allow in your personal space. You have to really protect yourself. It’s a very desperate thing. Music is a beautiful thing, but the business of it is desperate. Everyone wants to have that number one. Everyone wants to be going on tour and have lavish proximity to Kylie Jenner or whatever. That’s not how the world works. This is still a business. You still have this cultural power that you need to really protect. See it as the ring. This is the motherf---ing ring. This is your f---ing precious. You know what I’m saying? You need that sh-t. You can’t just let anyone and you know Frodo here with the stinking feet up in here. No! That’s what I mean. That’s why community is important. Have real, only real people by your side. I started with a big group, and now they’re getting smaller and smaller and smaller. Girls, Survivor, the Island, it’s less of us. It’s okay because I love them. I hope you’re watching, because I’m watching you too.

Anupa Mistry

You are signed to Anti- Records now. That happened after you won the Polaris prize in 2017? I think that’s a goal of many musicians, right? To make music, then potentially you can have the support of a label. You were very DIY, before that. Can you talk a little bit about what signing to the label changed for you? Just in terms of your artistic process. [Lido pulls out a record from behind her] Here we go, upside down. They recently gave this record.

Lido Pimienta

Let’s open it. I don’t have any nails.

Anupa Mistry

I do.

Lido Pimienta

I’ll talk about Anti-. For all of us based in this country, we will notice that things move a little slower. Our music industry too is the not-as-hot cousin for the States. The US is super-hot and successful, has it all together, bad-ass bitch. Canada is the cousin that just got her braces removed and her confidence is just starting to blossom. She just discovered what a tampon is and she’s like, “Woo!” The US like has been using the cup for a long time. She’s so cool. Not even the cup, the sponge, you know. We’re still, still with the tampon. I don’t know if that made any sense, so...

Anupa Mistry

That’s the best analogy for the Canadian music industry I’ve ever heard. [laughter / applause]

Lido Pimienta

I’m not going to name any names, because I don’t want to get in trouble. I’ve had all this courtship from booking agencies and labels and whatever in Canada. It never really set, never really. It all stayed in emails and nice conversations at the shows. I remember one of the shows. We opened for Sampha. All these music industry people were there. “We have to bring you to the office. You’re amazing.” “Yeah, bring me to the office. Where do I go, where is that?” Nothing. But, I would hear from other people in the industry that loved me. They were like, “Oh girl, guess who called me and asked if you are cool or not.” Are you trying to tell me that if someone is looking at an artist, they have to check if they’re cool enough to be signed or co-signed or put their money where their f---ing mouth is? It’s f---ed up. After the Polaris thing and I got management... Polaris was September 2017. I got management in May, 2017. Up until then, I had different online personas, that were my manager. Until I found them and they realized all of these people that I’m interacting with and all the things that I’m doing, they really helped me organize or help manage it. Really great. One of them, I knew for many years, Rachel. I was like great, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. We go to LA. They put me in this industry, whatever thing. I kid you not. It took me half an hour, opening for all these shitty bands, to get Anti- and all these other industry people actually, “Here is what we can offer you.” For the last ten years living in this country. Right? People there will take a risk. I don’t need to convince myself that you’re a bad ass bitch or that you’re a good performer, a good musician or good singer. I’m seeing it with my own eyes, right here. I see the people reacting to you. Let’s do it. Come to the office. I went. That week, I went to all these places and Anti- were the people that were more real with me. That’s why I went with them. ’Cause they were, “Well, what can we do to work with you?” I was like, “Well I don’t want my bandmates to have to work for a whole year so that they can help me finish my record and perform it.” “OK. Good.” Then, the contracts are happening. Here’s some money that we can give you. I want more. That part of the negotiation, you need your lawyers and all that stuff. The training, pre-label, pre-industry starts with not surrounding yourself with shitty people. If you’re surrounded by shitty people that are only there to take from you, you are not going to know how to read a contract properly. The label will take advantage of you. They will exploit you.

Anupa Mistry

I think there’s a lot of things that people don’t ask for, though. They’re scared of it going away. You were okay being like, “No, my band needs to not, needs to be okay.”

Lido Pimienta

I don’t want people telling me or giving me a deadline. These are the numbers of records that I want affiliated. If you want me to do six albums, I’m actually gonna give you three. OK? The first one is going to be a reissue of the one that I just released. [takes record] This is the one that I won the Polaris for, it’s La Papessa. I reissue it with new art, that I made myself, a pretty picture. I was nine months pregnant here, look at this. I was like, “Yeah I am going to do this.” The guy that runs the label, really has this spiritual connection to me. We have really great conversations. I was just, “Oh you really love me. OK, this is good.” This is good for me, because I need to know that you actually care about me. Because why? When the tour happens, if I have to open for a huge star or whatever and I tell them, “I need you to help me with this tour because I need to bring two nannies,” they’re going to help you. You have to look and think about it, not in the moment, now. I’m going to take a picture of Instagram with me signing this contract. No, you have to think about two years into your contract, when you have a product. I knew that when I saw myself in two years into it, it was going to be good because they were really taking care of me. They were treating me like a person, not like this product. We did seven shows at South by Southwest, last year, pregnant. At every single show, the record was there. The label was there, at every single show. They were, “How can we help you? We’re here.” They’re based in LA, they don’t need to be in Austin for nothing, but they were there. I was just, we were still courting. I’m like, “Oh, OK.” And you test people. To me, it just worked out. Just really get you a lawyer, when those contracts happen and be very sure of what you want. I’m someone that is extremely involved in my creative process. All the videos, all the whatever, any campaign, you best believe that I’m going to be behind all of it. They were, “That is exactly what we want. We waste a lot of time coming up with concepts and stuff for a lot of artists. We don’t have to do it with you. We’re actually very excited to work with someone like that.” Whereas other people, they’re not into it. They really want to tell you how to put the product out there. Some artists, they grow frustrated. A lot of artists are, well that record was really good. I don’t know what happened to them. A lot of these people, that you don’t ever hear from again, is because you get really disappointed once you enter these arenas. I don’t need to do stuff just ’cause. I can take my time. Now, I am taking my time. The record is sounding amazing. That’s exactly what I wanted. It’s happening and I hope that people receive it well. I don’t know.

Anupa Mistry

Let’s listen to something from Miss Colombia. I was telling you, I have a really hard time picking what song to play because...

Lido Pimienta

Because they’re all great.

Anupa Mistry

They are all great. We’re going to play “Para Transcribio.” [Lido says something off mic] Oh yeah, sorry. We can do that one. No problem. What’s it called? Tell me again.

Lido Pimienta

“Eso que tu haces,” which means, “that thing you do.”

(music: Lido Pimienta – “Eso Que Tu Haces” / applause)

Anupa Mistry

So you’re saying... yeah, that’s not the right version.

Lido Pimienta

It’s not the most recent, but it’s okay.

Anupa Mistry

This record is not coming out until later this year. This is a sneak peek. Talk about this new record. You do have a concept for it, it’s called Miss Colombia. I’m also curious to know what you’re doing musically, on this record that maybe you haven’t done before.

Lido Pimienta

When I first started writing this album was in 2016, 2016 in the fall, in October, I went to Santiago, Chile, in Chile to work on Miss Colombia. I had all these songs. I had many versions of it. I had like a bunch of... The versions were all voice and woodwinds and brass. I went to Andrés Nusser’s studio. He’s this Chilean guy behind this band called Astro. He had just stopped Astro. He was, “Yeah, just come over and let’s make some music.” That’s when Miss Colombia started. When we were in the studio working on Miss Colombia, I was like, “Oh I forgot to put the album out there.” La Papessa. I just put it out there and I forgot about it. I was, “Goodbye La Papessa. I’m into Miss Colombia now.” So it was this nice experience where I’m just in Chile arranging the pre-demos of that. That’s the week that I contacted Nifty, Prince Nifty or Matt Smith in Toronto. I was like, “You should come for a couple of weeks and see how you feel the songs.” That’s how I started. Upon returning to Toronto, and people liked the album, I was like, “I guess I got to go on tour now.” Got the short list and the whatever, and I had to stop. I always knew that Miss Colombia was going to be a revisit of those songs, like “Chumbacu,” lots of clarinet, lots of porro, lots of repetition. Musically, the things that have influenced me. It’s my album where I go back to my country after being told, by all the white supremacists, to go back to my country. I was like, “Yes, I’ll go then. I’m going to make gold.” That’s exactly what I am doing. I started reconnecting with the traditional groups that I grew up listening to. I started reconnecting with the singing that formed me as a singer. That was singing in the streets, singing in Carnival. Projecting without a microphone or without a PA. Projecting in the middle of the street with 5,000 people here and 5,000 people here. Watching you. How do you project for hundreds of people with your voice? I need to remember that because the snow and the weather really weighs you down. I needed that injection of life. Going to Colombia to me is always this sour thing. It’s beautiful, but it’s also really hard. It’s happy, but it’s also very sad. Especially, with what’s happening with Venezuela and how we’re getting this influx of very talented, very amazing Venezuelans, that now are selling candy in the streets or working for very, very, very, very cheap, and Colombia really exploiting that. The fear of not becoming Venezuela is what made the government be what it is now. All of these things, there is so much material here. I really need to start looking at myself. In terms of sound, all those are the elements.

My favorite was going to San Basilio de Palenque, which is the first free town from slavery in all of the Americas, the home to many singers. If the people here have ever heard remixes of Colombian music, you’ve heard of the singers. Only that the singers are living in poverty, living in houses that are falling apart, if they have a house. The singers like, they will be selling their candy in the street. This group that I grew up with, called Sexteto Tabalá, they’ve been a group for almost a hundred years. It goes from generation to generation of these family members. It’s tradition. Their oldest member and their main singer and songwriter, his name is Raphael Cassiani Cassiani, he’s 89 years old. He doesn’t have a pension. Even though he has written so many songs that we hear over and over again, not just in Carnival, but in the Afro-Colombian diaspora. Because they’ve given me so much, I’m going to go make a song with them. Miss Colombia has become, not just a record, it’s a language, it’s a study, it’s a thesis, it’s my PhD. I hate academia.

But, if that was the route that I would have taken, had I let my teachers convince me when I was in university, this is the work that I would be doing. No, we have to make sure that this traditional music is compensated. We have to make sure that this traditional music keeps living on. That Colombian traditional music lives on properly, properly archived, properly, not like what happens now. If you want the really good archival content, you have to go to France. Go to the vault in France. Just like African artifacts are in London. Gold stolen from indigenous people all over the Americas, is in England. It’s the same with music. If we don’t start looking at music as this precious, one-of-a-kind important works, we’re not going to move forward. Because the canon, why is a f---ing Picasso protected but not a f---ing Sexteto Tabalá song. The canon needs to change. There has to be a shift in what we see as the canon in arts and culture. Picasso ripped off African cultures for years, everyone knows that.

Anupa Mistry

There was a show about that in Montréal.

Lido Pimienta

I don’t know. That’s what it is. It’s like Modigliani, the same, all these motherf---ers. So anyways, we should play this song.

Anupa Mistry

Should we play a Sexteto song?

Lido Pimienta

Well, whatever you want…

Anupa Mistry

Should we play one of their songs?

Lido Pimienta

One of their songs, yeah, even though...

Anupa Mistry

Now I feel bad pressing play.

Lido Pimienta

It’s okay because they are gonna get paid, boo.

Anupa Mistry

OK.

Lido Pimienta

Here’s Sexteto Tabalá from San Basilio de Palenque.

(music: Sexteto Tabalá – “Agua” / applause)

Anupa Mistry

So that was “Agua” by Sexteto Tabalá and so now we’ll listen to the track that you recorded with them and we’ll hear the donkeys in the background and the truck rumbling by. Introduce this song because…

Lido Pimienta

“Quiero Que Me Salves.”

Anupa Mistry

And sneak peak from Miss Colombia.

(music: Lido Pimienta and Sexteto Tabalá – “Quiero Que Me Salves” / applause)

Why are you laughing?

Lido Pimienta

I laugh because all I can hear is they’re not in the right pitch but it’s okay. But it’s great. It’s beautiful.

Anupa Mistry

Thank you. Thank you for being here and sharing your new music and giving us language and space to talk about ways to be better people in the world. I appreciate it. Thank you Lido Pimienta. [applause] Let’s do some questions. I can pass the mic, but questions?

Lido Pimienta

Also a shout out to my baby. Seven months old.

Anupa Mistry

Where is she?

Lido Pimienta

Behaving better than all of you.

Audience member

Hi Lido, just wanted to say thank you so much for speaking to us. That was very insightful. I want to ask you a question that I think about a lot myself as somebody who looks into my music and music from my culture and I’m incorporating that in my music. A lot of what you said today was getting my gears going about that, and it’s a tough question and it’s something I think about. I always feel so many different ways about this. I don’t think there is a particularly right answer, so it is a very tough question. Maybe an ambiguous answer. Me being a first-generation immigrant but never grew up where I am from, which is Bangladesh. My parents live there but I grew up outside of that. So with that comes a degree of maybe privilege that maybe other 25-year-olds or children in Bangladesh don’t get to have.

So I see that as a way that... It might be different, my perspective of how I see things. In playing classical Indian music through my family, my mom and my brother and myself, and now that I’m incorporating this in my music, I’m not making any money per se really but I want to be able to at least bring an understanding of where this music comes from, what it represents, and be able to offer that. Is that enough? Or what can we do to... I guess when you don’t really have money, when you’re trying to figure out how you’re gonna make your rent at the end of the month, because I can’t ask my mom for money, that’s for sure. Single mother. That’s how it is. When I put instruments from my culture in my music but I don’t really see any money out of it... But how can I help the people through this when I’m currently not really in a position outside of just being able to direct them to resources or just talk to them about what this is, where it comes from, how it was made, etc?

Lido Pimienta

OK.

Audience member

Do you know where I’m coming from here?

Lido Pimienta

Yeah. I mean, this is the album number three and the first time that I’ve had support for one of my records. So I’ve had this idea of working with Sexteto Tabalá for the last ten years but I needed to wait until the time was right that I could go back and be with them... I mean, I’ve known them since I was 13 years old, right? So I actually had a relationship with them, so I was able to confidently be in the community and I brought money. I saved up for it. I put it in the budget and that’s what I did. If I put myself in your shoes, what I see is a man from Bangladesh. When you look at yourself in the mirror, you’re not a white kid. You’re not a Canadian kid, so you still have to be in the world existing in your skin, so there’s still a lot of things or a lot of doors that won’t just open for you, so you have to... Don’t, like, “I’m just a martyr and I don’t know what to do and I want to use my culture but I also don’t want to exploit it.” No, because it is who you are, right? So you have to learn. You have to learn. Save up, take a trip…

Audience member

It is a part of... Sorry to interrupt you. It is a part of who I am but it is not all that I am, which I also understand.

Lido Pimienta

Exactly. For sure, because this is who we are. I lived in the city all my life. I didn’t live in the desert. I went there and it was a part of my experience growing up, but I can tell you more Nickelodeon shows than I can tell you in traditional Wayuu songs, right? So that’s how Lido Pimienta exists. I am not waving the flag of anything but myself, and when you get to the point where you can make coin from your music, you will know how you’re going to find the ways and it might be that you’re going to go down there and you’re going to sample the musicians and you’re going to pay them, give them the money and you’re going to create an account so that anything that comes, you’re going to share with them.

A lot of us, like my close friends, like this amazing producer, musician called Chancha Vía Circuito, he goes a lot into the jungle and works with indigenous people in the south of South America and that’s what he does. It’s all about the context. It’s all about doing what you’re supposed to be doing, not just taking. But also, if you’re just starting out and you’re experimenting with samples and you’re not making money, it’s fine, because you are discovering yourself. You are finding out who you are and it’s only going to happen through trial and error. So if I were you, I wouldn’t really hit myself too hard in the head because you’re walking your path, you’re living your truth and you are... We’re born here, you live here, but your culture is who you are. Your mother, your relatives, so yeah, I would recommend... I just went back and I discovered all this whole new set of family that I had no idea that existed and I go to their house and they all happen to be bullerengue singers. Now I understand a lot of why I sing the way that I sing. So, you will be surprised and you will find the ways that you’re going to help your community and have them, and it’s also like, “Help my community because I am the...” No, it’s like participate in the community, collaborate with your community, because let me tell you, these people in these communities where they are oppressed and live in these oppressed communities and governments and corruption and all that stuff, their music is better than ours, their talents are better than ours, their music is better, everything they do is better. So it’s just like, I’m just trying to be like them. I’m just trying to be like Sexteto and make every single song that they have amazing with the smallest elements, you know? So, yeah. You’re doing it. You’re doing it. You’re doing it.

Audience member

Thank you for answering this really hard question. Big ups.

Lido Pimienta

It’s not that hard.

Anupa Mistry

Maybe if anyone else has a question, you just pass the mic around. Yeah.

Audience member

I just want to hear more about your experience as a mother and how do you turn that switch on and off as an artist? Being on stage, and at home and you’re yelling at your kids, and how much pros and cons that had impact on your career and if your family’s your source of your inspiration as an artist?

Lido Pimienta

I don’t really scream at my son. I throw chanclas at him. You know what a chancla is? It’s a flip-flop. So let’s get that straight. I am an artist that happens to be a mother, first and foremost. I happen to be a mother and I f---ing love kids. I love my kids. I’m helping raise my nephew. I love it. It’s a part of who I am and it gives me a lot of inspiration because I love also to be a woman, and I am very lucky that I grew up as a cis-gendered bitch. I love it, I love it. Because of that, it’s not like I have to turn it on and off. I just continue being my truest self because I really love it, you know?

The things that I do, now that... When we start touring, what’s going to happen is that my manager is going to be side stage with the baby in the stroller and the baby’s going to be with her protective headphones on and she’s probably going to be eating a chocolate bar. That’s the only thing that worries me is I’m going to have to bribe my baby. It’s like yes, you could have breast milk but look at this Snickers bar. You know? That’s the only thing that I really have to worry about, because I’ve been a mother since I was 21 years old, so I’ve been doing this, and you figure it out as you go.

My situation is different than your situation. If you ever have kids that you have to bring on tour or whatever, you’re going to see what your situation is going to be better and then, again, this idea of friends, one of my best friends, Jennifer Arango, she’s an amazing doula. She was my doula. So when the money’s there, like some shows that I’ve done in LA since giving birth, I bring her with me because the money was good, so it’s like, “OK, cool.” And even if the money wasn’t good, you prioritize on the expenses and you bring it into the expenses that you need. In your expenses is daycare, childcare, so you bring in your friend, you hook up your friend and you have peace of mind, because sometimes my son, he’s over the shows. He’s over it. He’s just like, “You know what? I think people want to listen to me now.” We have this very strange relationship, you guys. Anyways, so, he doesn’t like to come on tour. So he likes to stay home. He likes to stay home and we FaceTime every day, so now we’ll see what kind of baby I’m gonna have, and I was very... You know what? I can have a career as a musician onstage, perform, but if I have this baby and this baby’s not into it, I might just write songs for other people, and you can still make a living out of that. For me, it’s not about, “I have to be seen.” For me it’s about I have to put the music out there. I just have to put it out there and I will be happy just putting this stuff online or writing for other musicians because I still have to make a living, but yeah, if you’re planning on it, just know that it is possible just as long as you let the venues know too.

I feel like we have a responsibility, men and women, to normalize parenthood and motherhood. We have to normalize it. We have to make sure... We are the ones that are making these venues money. It’s us, right? We bring people to the party and they will buy the beers and whatever, so the least that they can do is that they can have a decent green room where you can bring your mom and your mom’s there with your kids while you perform for the hour or whatever. If you think about it, I can be with my baby all day long. Today the commitment was we’re sitting here and the baby’s around, and I was like, “If she cries, bring me the baby and I’ll breastfeed her and she’ll be fine.” She’s cool. For the shows, I can have my baby on me, but I know that I’m gonna play for an hour, an hour and a half tops. The baby’s going to be fed right before I go on stage and she’s going to be nice, asleep or whatever. So it is possible. To me there’s no really... Like a mystery, you know? I was raised by a single mother too, so it just comes. Bus drivers have children. How do they do it? I feel like a bus driver has a way harder time to manage childcare than me, that I can bring my kid with me, you know?

Audience member

Thank you.

Audience member

Hello. I just had a question about your experience with collaboration because this group of people in this event is very collaboration-forward and as someone without very much experience collaborating with people from different genres and skill sets and whatnot, I was wondering if you had any insights or things that surprised you about what was similar between you and someone else or what was a hardship you had and how you kind of navigate the space of collaborating with people from such a diverse sample group of genres.

Lido Pimienta

First of all, your hair is fabulous.

Audience member

Thank you.

Lido Pimienta

Second of all, collaboration is a core element in the Lido Pimienta landscape. Because I am a singer and because I am a great singer, everybody wants to work with me, and that’s actually how I started. I started singing and writing these songs for producers and for bands. My catalog, collaborating, the songs in this catalog of collaborations are bigger than my own catalog of songs that I officially released, and that was a great practice because we shouldn’t fall into Enya territory. You know who Enya is? So, Enya [sings “Sail Away”] she’s great but she also lives in a castle isolated from the world and she only listens to her own music, right? Yeah, facts. Very proudly, she’s like, “I don’t listen to no Beyoncé. I listen to myself,” you know? So, I feel like that’s why the album sounds like... Everything she makes is so odd and disconnected and that’s why I like it, but we should really use our strengths... Like collaboration is the opportunity to use your strengths and experiment and putting work forth that you wouldn’t necessarily do on your own, right? So, songs with A Tribe Called Red for example, “The Light.” I wouldn’t really put something out like that by myself and they took that song and they turned it into three songs and it’s been really great to see how far that song goes.

It’s also great when the songs are good, you know? In my experience I’ve recorded on horrible music just because I need to put myself out there, and when I hear those songs, I just cringe. It’s just horrible, because I was doing it because I just have to... You know, you feel this pressure that you have to put yourself out there. You know what? It’s better if you only put excellent work out there that you are proud of, than a lot of songs that are out there just because you had the opportunity to do them. So I think that’s the most valuable advice that I can give you, is only put it out if you really believe in it and set the boundaries before you set any music down, because I also made the mistake of, “Here’s a song,” and then I hear it back and they... I mean, we’re just not in sync. Whatever they’re listening to for me sounds out of sync. You know, like so many remixes that people are like, “And this is going to be in an HBO series,” and I’m like, “Oh really? It sounds horrible. Where is the one? Where is the two? Where is the three? What is happening?” Because I didn’t put those boundaries and I didn’t get the rules, the game rules before the stuff went into mixing and mastering. So, yeah, have those honest conversations. Be very respectful, of course. There’s no need into fighting with people but always be very stern. Your experience might be different than mine. I am a woman, I am brown and I sing like a little girl and I have this high-pitched voice and people think that I’m adorable. It happens all the time. I do look adorable. It’s like this fight that I have but I do choose to look like this. I do present myself in this type of way, but it’s still like I should be respected because of my qualifications and my experience, but a lot of people would just... Like the last thing that happened is this producer in LA, I did a session with this Mexican artist. We did our song. Everything was good and I also gave her this extra stuff for her to use in the future because I trusted her. The engineer took it upon himself to present the songs for this big contract thing, whatever, and I didn’t like it. I didn’t even like what he did, and I told him straight up, I was like, “Who gave you permission?” Because he emailed me, not even to tell me, “I am going to put this song in this whatever, to whatever.” He said, “Can you please send me the translation of these words?” And I was like, “Who the f--- are you?” And he was like, “Woah, woah, woah, woah, woah, hysterical woman. Why are you... This is good for you.” It’s just like, “No, it’s not good for me because I am not reading this contract. Whatever the f--- you are reading, whatever opportunity got your way, you’re using my voice without my consent,” so that’s not collaboration, but back when I started 10 years ago, I did that so many times and I didn’t know that it was wrong.

So yeah, set your boundaries and only work on stuff that you really, truly believe in because it’s gonna come to haunt you and it’s horrible. That feeling of being a participant in something that is mediocre is a terrible feeling, so avoid that. Be diplomatic and be respectful and just bring your best game. Don’t hold back. Don’t hold back. That’s another thing, when we collaborate, “I really shouldn’t give them that. That bassline is really, really too sick. I should just use it myself.” It’s like no, you will continue to write amazing basslines. Put your best work forward. It will pay off. Don’t hold back, because we’re also procrastinators, and then that sick bassline is gonna be hidden and no one’s gonna hear it in the next 10 years, so just put it out. Put your music out because this is the practice. We’re in this practice and we really need to be committed to it and the more music that you write, the better musician that you’re gonna be. The more stuff that you put out, the better artist that you’re going to end up becoming.

Audience member

Hey Lido, what’s up? You mentioned earlier about only waving the flag of Lido Pimienta and not necessarily representing Flags, capital F. So, in an industry and in a paradigm, especially in the Canadian context where there’s always a hyphen of, “Indigenous-Afro-Latina artist wins Polaris blah blah blah,” you get exactly what I mean. How do you navigate the pigeonhole in the awards shows, in the CVC interviews, in this interview. I’m sure it wasn’t just Lido Pimienta. I’m sure it was Polaris prize Afro-Latina. How do you navigate that pigeonhole if you will?

Lido Pimienta

I just pick my battles. Sometimes it’s worth it to address it. Sometimes it’s not worth it to address it, and I’ve learned that the hard way. After the prize, after the Halifax Pop Explosion debacle, after all of that stuff. Now the online harassment and the bullying and the stuff that I experience on the daily, I feel like I have toned it down so much in the things that I say, the way that I express myself. I am very selective into the things that I decide to just tell it like it is, because sometimes there’s no point. Sometimes there’s no point. The monster is too big and I still have to protect myself. I still have to protect my children, and sometime... Now it’s becoming where I get a little bit of more of a say in how I want to be introduced, so people will send me, “This is the bio, is this description good? How do you want us to introduce yourself?” I’m like, “Artist.”

At the same time, I also know that it’s not going to be like this forever and I mean in the future, it’s not going to be like this forever where we’re just going to be artists that happen to be born in a different country or happen to speak a different language. It’s going to come and I understand because history and herstory has taught me that someone has to start it and the rest of us will follow. So I know that I’m someone in history and herstory that is setting this precedent and maybe it’s gonna change. I also, I’m very proud of being Afro-Colombian. I’m very proud of being indigenous, so when you put it out there, it’s like, “Yes motherf---er, the black indigenous has arrived.” Sometimes it is important to let them know. Say it to the people in the back. So it just depends on also who’s saying it, because some people need to hear it, you know? Indigenous people need to see other indigenous people killing it and doing good things… Or actually no like Gandhi taught me, “Don’t say killing it, say fertilize it.” People that are fertilizing it, own it and be glad, so it’s also good. It really is about what you... The context, really, because some people will say it because they want to start some sh-t and you have to be prepared. You have to be prepared because there’s a lot of fake journalists out there that will use you as click bait and it just comes with the territory.

Again, if you have a good crew, you won’t be Britney in 2007. Have a good crew, right? Because when you need to cry, someone will take your tears and they’re going to be there for you, and they’re like, “Yes, girl. Here is some ice cream. Let’s watch Project Runway. It’s going to be okay.” You need your crew to help you with that because sometimes... Most times it’s got to be awkward. Most times it’s horrible. Most times is not pleasant. That’s happening right now, this isn’t it all the time. Most times, it’s, I go to a show. My name is big, written outside and they still just acknowledge my baby daddy number two, you know? Or my other bandmate. It always happens.

I had this guy telling me... He couldn’t figure out my setup and he was like, “I know what we can do. You can use my microphone that is really good for female voices,” and that was a moment where I had to decide, “Do I want to fight this guy? No,” and I didn’t because I knew if I called him out, the sound for the show was going to be a piece of sh-t. So I was just like, “I have a little cold right now. I don’t want to get anyone else sick. I’m going to stick to my microphone. Thank you.” But when the show was done, he heard it, right? So it’s just like that. Just own it. Just own it. I am indigenous. I am black. I am Colombian. I am a mother. I am a Polaris prize-winning artist. I am a badass bitch.