Carola Stoiber, “Mad” Mike Banks and Dimitri Hegemann

Torsten Schmidt

Well then, 20 years ago we started this thing [Red Bull Music Academy], about 12 minutes in a taxi away from here, and it is pretty safe to say that none of us would be sitting here today, nor would have even thought about starting such a thing, if it wasn’t for these fine people here and the work that they did when we were all wee little teenagers. I would like you to welcome with the uttermost respect and joy Carola Stoiber, Dimitri Hegemann and “Mad” Coach Mike Banks. [applause]

So, this might run a little differently to what you expect maybe, and what you’ve heard so far. And in order to get you in the mood, courtesy of DJ Adlib, who runs the editing team on the radio, here’s a little something we prepared earlier, just like on any other good cooking show.

(music: Medley – “38 Years of Techno from Around the World”)

[applause] Well if this was applause, it was applause for an entire culture, ’cause we’ve heard tracks that are from the last 38 years, I wanna say? Can I get a quick show of hands for people who recognized a track from the city or the area that they grew up in, or do currently live in right now. Really not? Come on. We had a lot of you covered there. Well, that went well, fantastic.

Well, you heard things in there from Detroit, from LA, from Paris, from Belgium, from Berlin, Germany, from Durban in South Africa, and a bunch of others, and I guess the idea was to show that even if you don’t use any vocals, even if you don’t have any classic signifiers of placing something geographically, it is a language that’s spoken around the world right now, and it is super versatile, and even if you’re only hearing a few bars of something, you can instantly get a feel of “Oh, I know this is from that place.” And we somehow believe, with all these hyped places that there are in the world, people put way too little emphasis on their actual surroundings, and that is what we want these fine people to talk about today. Carola, where were you raised?

Carola Stoiber

I was raised in North Germany, in a very small town with maybe even 200 people living there, and there was nothing going on, so I decided very early that I had to move to Berlin.

Torsten Schmidt

I mean at that time, Berlin was not the most natural place to move to.

Carola Stoiber

No, that was ’84, when the wall was still up and there were not a lot of young people influxing the city. [There were] a lot of older people. Because of the status, everybody was quite scared to come here to part of a city that is surrounded by a wall. But the thing I decided to do was, there was already a special, open-minded subculture or music scene going on that was different from all other cities in West Germany. [In the] western part I didn’t know yet that they...

Torsten Schmidt

You were not from Berlin either, right?

Dimitri Hegemann

No, no actually, and I didn’t want to leave my home, a small village and all, but I never heard a “Yes” from the mayor or somebody. I had some crazy ideas in mind. I was really inspired by the Woodstock festival; about the values of freedom, the green idea, community, togetherness. I liked that a lot and I wanted to bring Woodstock into my small village, and they said “No, you better leave it.” And then, I actually really didn’t want to give it up, but I was looking for an alternative life concept in my 500-people village, and there was nothing, you know. You have to understand Germany had nothing in those days. Not like maybe the Detroit guys, maybe the parents had the soul, and before that the blues. [But] our parents’ generation had nothing, so I moved to West Berlin.

Torsten Schmidt

Whereabouts was this?

Dimitri Hegemann

What?

Torsten Schmidt

Whereabouts was this?

Dimitri Hegemann

Whereabout...

Torsten Schmidt

The place that you lived.

Dimitri Hegemann

Westphalia. And actually I loved it, to grow up [there]. The world was okay, but we hadn’t had cultural input. It was very low in the generation of my parents. They were in the war, nobody talked; it was difficult. And so we had a big desire for something new. And when these new sounds came, like psychedelic [music], Jimi Hendrix, and the long hair, and to live in a community together with friends, and build your own microcosms, those were the ideas that I really loved. The hippie movement.

Torsten Schmidt

How many times were you offered to get beaten up in those sort of surroundings?

Dimitri Hegemann

Beaten up? No.

Torsten Schmidt

I mean, where I come from, ’cause I mean 200 and 500 [inhabitants] makes my 1,200 village almost feel very urban already, but people at least were courteous enough to go like, “OK, with that kind of hair, I’m gonna beat you up, let’s go outside.”

Dimitri Hegemann

Oh, OK, no. I was clever enough to escape, but...

Torsten Schmidt

First rule of self-defense: Run.

Dimitri Hegemann

No, I had this vision of, I don’t know, it was really peaceful. And with this romantic view, I entered West Berlin. Also Detroit once, I said, “Wow, everything is so beautiful,” until Mr. Banks explained what’s going on. Well anyway, Berlin was really an island, as Carola said. It was really an open-minded scene since years [previously]; since the student riots, since the ’20s actually. And because of the wall. I always liked islands, and it was controlled by the Allied forces, by France, the British, and the US force; so if you were young enough, and on time in Berlin, you didn’t have to join the army. So you can imagine the young boys who moved to West Berlin at the right age, 18 or so, they created a new consciousness. It was very critical, [but] I missed the train. They caught me for the army, but I could get back later to Berlin. Actually I must also say, the city developed me, you know?

Torsten Schmidt

In which regard?

Dimitri Hegemann

They had the music, they had sounds. I am a curious person, and they had something that I had never seen before. I was a country boy, and so these big Hinterhaus, the big courtyards, and then the nighttime [activities], I had never seen these things you know? Actually I was shocked when I saw a small shop saying “Bakery” and a fashion designer was inside. All these small...

Torsten Schmidt

How dare they?

Dimitri Hegemann

“How does this work?” So I had to learn a lot. I was quiet, and my interest was watching night people. I found these small spots. We had no curfew; later on we can talk about that. So you could hang out until the morning, and meet some weird philosophers, talking about weird things, but that was amazing for me. I studied musicology. Musicology is about the history of music trends, and in the days when I moved to Berlin, punk was a subject.

Torsten Schmidt

Did people in Detroit care at any stage about mere things like curfew?

Mike Banks

Not really. Detroit got a curfew, but you could always hit an afterhours or something like that if you really wanted to just hang out. But yeah, the curfew was put in place by the auto companies so the auto workers could get to work on time. That was the idea behind it. Of course, it’s very dated now, but man we had fun in Detroit after hours. There was always something to do. The nighttime economy, or what Dimitri be talking about, is much different. The economy is a little illegal, but you could have a whole lot of fun, so I never felt any curfew, I didn’t feel no particular restriction to time, other than trying to get to work the next day.

Torsten Schmidt

What sort of work was that?

Mike Banks

I did construction work. Sometimes, I’d get fired, get in trouble. Getting into it, union versus management, that type of stuff. Or mechanical work. I did evictions for like 12 years.

Torsten Schmidt

That’s probably a concept that’s a little alien to most people outside of the States, could you explain what that entails?

Mike Banks

It’s simple. You don’t pay your rent, then some guys come knock on the door, put you out. Put your stuff in the street. And we get paid for doing it. So it was like, “Yo man, you know you ain’t got no cheese, you gotta roll. And we ain’t gonna tear your stuff up, we’re gonna respect you, but you gotta respect us.” And I was the littlest guy on the crew. The crew is huge, so you don’t wanna mess with them. Put you out, rain, shine, sleet or snow. Guaranteed.

Torsten Schmidt

That sounds super heart breaking. I don’t think it’s the easiest job to do.

Mike Banks

Hey you know, people make bad – a lot of folks love vices. Gambling, too much smoking crack, drugs... If they was down on their luck and we knew they was really down on their luck and they was working hard, the bailiff would give them a break. It wasn’t up to us, we was just the movers. The bailiff would have had to make the decision, and a lot of times, even though it sound like a bad thing, it was a lot of beautiful moments in it.

Torsten Schmidt

Like how?

Mike Banks

This one little girl was like, “Momma, why are we getting put out?” Her mama was trifling, she on crack. And she said, “That’s just how it is,” and I told her, “Little girl,” I said, “That ain’t how it is. Your mama’s on crack, and she don’t know s---, so if you go to school and learn something, this won’t happen to you.” And she said, “That’s what I’m gonna do.” So, it’s some beautiful moments, even in the pain. It wasn’t like we the bad guy all the time. My boy got shot up doing it, and we was trying to help that family out, and he got killed just because it was a misunderstanding. But yeah, it wasn’t a bad job, I even had laughs on that job. Some people could get put out and still be smiling. One guy came to the door buck naked, and he said, “Have at it.” And he had s--- everywhere, put s--- on all the doorknobs, anything we touched, it had s--- on it. [laughter] So he got us that night, he won that one. So he figured a way to beat us. So yeah, what can I say.

Torsten Schmidt

Maybe to give people a better understanding of the city, and where the city was at that stage, at the time... and probably you could comment on that, after we see it. Could we see video number five for maybe three minutes ten?

(video: Detroit news report about a fire at an afterhours)

Now, that’s some pretty disturbing footage, and what’s even more disturbing is when you try to look for something to illustrate it, and you see the different levels of language that were used, and some of the stuff, not even with what you’re seeing, but with the way things get portrayed, it’s almost unbearable to watch.

Mike Banks

Yeah, what the newsman forgot to tell you was that 20 years before that, the police had just been catching people at random and beating they ass. People got tired of it. “You have to live in a certain area.” “You can’t go here, you can’t go there.” I was six or seven years old when that happened and I remember the tanks and the soldiers and I was playing with the soldier’s bayonet and all that s---. But the news, it’s the same news you get now from Detroit. Shootings, stabbings, blah blah blah. They forget to tell you the good part. It was a black shop owner on there. There’s two sides to every story. There’s a black shop owner on there. It’s people that actually got jobs, it’s people that pay taxes, it’s people that is intelligent, it’s people that know what classical art is. It ain’t a town full of monkeys that just tear up s---. That’s the description you just saw. It’s the same s--- we watch on TV every night on Fox News. Every night, how many people got killed in Detroit, and the dumb s--- they got killed over. Nothing has changed, and part of what me and Jeff was doing with Underground Resistance was to paint a different picture, paint a picture of dreams and hope and futurism. And the one part that the brother said about, “There’s some cats that just don’t care,” that was true. When my man said that, he said they don’t care about race, religion, nothing, just getting what they gotta get. Now that is true. But you hear that in all the rap lyrics. It’s pretty common across urban America, so it can’t be just a Detroit problem, it’s a US problem. And you can imagine, this guy that’s supposed to go to Vietnam and go fight, and kill some other people about some s--- he don’t even know about, after something like this happened, ’cause they did draft people after that happened. They did draft them, and they sent them over there to kill some other people that probably just wanted their way of life, you see what I’m saying?

So it’s a very ironic place to live in, and I think, in our current situation; I think you all understand what I’m talking about when you see what’s happening right now. It’s always been there. It’s always been there, lurking around but, you know, there’s good people as well, and if you want to paint a picture, a one-sided picture, own a news station, own a radio station, own a record company. You know, you guys are getting one-tenth of what we capable of musically, and that’s what you are also about to illustrate, that we do have a future. We do think. We do want to do better. OK?

Carola Stoiber

I know that you don’t want to talk too much about this, but that’s why I’m telling it now. When I came to Detroit the first time, and I saw what they are doing there, it was something very special, for me, [in] a dangerous city like I’ve never seen before, until then. And they were... Mike and Jeff and UR are creating [their] own space with the label, the distribution. They had the meeting point for the musicians there. People can talk, and they helped each other out, and started labels, created jobs and had other people also following up. So also 430 West, Lenny and Lawrence Burden [AKA Octave One], that’s something I remember now. Many more also started their own labels, and they are also still around, so that’s something very important that should not be forgotten in the report of Detroit these days too.

Torsten Schmidt

And I mean, it transcended beyond that. I remember Dego, and all the Reinforced crew when they first went to see Detroit, and they were like “Oh, so what do the rest of us need to know about that camp?” ’Cause you were not doing any PR or whatever. And it was like, “All you gotta know, them’s brothers for real.” That was Dego’s words at that time and...

Mike Banks

Yeah, Dego and them hung out with me. We went to the Brass Key Lounge, it’s a stripper club. And they was really enjoying the bass, ’cause they was dropping Detroit electro and Miami bass, and they mixed it together, and they loved it. They used to be a group called Manix, and they was on Kevin Saunderson’s label. And they went there, they was young, and I took them around and showed them some sights, and they had a good time running around with me at night in Detroit, just like Mark Ernestus did. I gotta mention, there’s two people that’s not here that I wish was here. One guy is here, he’s lurking about, he always lurks, and he’s lurking in here somewhere, but he was also critical in the Detroit-Berlin connection. And the other guy you might know: Jeff Mills, my old buddy from Detroit, and to me, one of the best DJs in the world, bar none. I mean, he kept me from trying to DJ. I figured, “Ain’t no sense in me trying to DJ, [laughter] I could never be this tight. This dude is tight.”

So as well, I think you should also imagine Mark Ernestus, Hard Wax records, Esco, the whole Hard Wax crew and Jeff Mills sitting here too. They just can’t be here right now. And this is a rare opportunity that I come, and it’s happened to happen in Berlin, and it’s rare. And I thank Torsten and all of the guys, Many and all them, for cooking it up that we could come and explain to you guys just what you can do with your music. ’Cause if you figure, if we made it through that, you can do some tremendous things too, for your own city, for your own town. Because Berlin, obviously, flowered from the music, and then only Berlin has come back to help flower Detroit. I’ve been trying for years. Most of my friends is over here DJing. A lot of them in Europe. Some of them deserve to be here, others just choose not to live in that s---. OK? But guess what? We get so many visitors, from all around the world, come to our little shop, sign a wall, spread some love. Some of them even stay. So the city is getting these weird people from around the world moving there, and that’s kind of cool to me. So it’s a little love coming back. You wanna talk about irony? We got Detroit Techno City, we got no techno club. We got a piece of a club here, piece of something there, but they usually get shut down once the owners figure out they’re making money. So Dimitri is trying to put an anchor down from Europe in the city, to help so our DJs can stay home and have somewhere to DJ at, you feel me?

Torsten Schmidt

Did you always feel welcome? ’Cause there were rumors at that time when certain labels purchased an address in Detroit just to get a Detroit postcode on the records?

Mike Banks

Oh yeah, that’s still going on. They won’t stand up in my face and say Detroit nothing, ’cause I know they fakes. Fraudulent, impostors, we could just go on and on, but they know who they are. They didn’t live my experience, and certainly I’m the kind of guy, I didn’t ever feel like I was in a bad place, until I got out overseas, like, “Damn, that’s a nice city. Oh this is a nice city. This is a nice city. What’s that woman doing walking alone?”

It was a trip. It was a trip. You really don’t realize how cheated you get. You know like when my man told me in Spanish, he said “If y’all can count to ten, you get an A. You count to five, you get a B. And if you can’t pass that, you just go and sign up for the military.” So I counted to ten, I got A. They didn’t have high expectations for us, and that’s what happens when you get corporate control. When corporations control life. A corporation, if they make Red Bull, they good at it. If they make a car, they make a good or bad car, you decide. But they shouldn’t control art, and they shouldn’t control cities and infrastructures. We got a city where the school curriculum is dictated by corporations. “We need all the workers, teach them how to make cars.” That was the expectation of our school curriculum.

Torsten Schmidt

Which is probably one of the ironic things: On average, [compared] to the rest of the States, the high level of African American education. That people like Ford, despite their bizarre world views, thought, “OK, if we educate certain people, they will become better workers.”

Mike Banks

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The auto companies, they did... My grandfather came up and worked at Ford. And they figured, “They can build a car, they ought to be smart enough to build a car.” And it was way beyond that. I mean, if y’all want to see some art, come see some of our cars. We got some bad s--- rolling round there, OK? That’s what art is perceived as, it’s mechanical. If you haven’t been taught classical European art ever, well what the f--- is a Renoir, what’s a Rembrandt? I don’t care about that s---. But you let the right car roll up with some classic good work, like the back end of this turntable? That’s what we look at as art. A lot of us. Now there’s people there that do understand art, we do have art museums, we do have culture, OK? But average guys I know, they recognize art through mechanical ability, and it’s something to be thought about. You get a lot of high-end, upper-crust people, and they judge art by what they were brought up on. You know, most of you got builders, or somebody in your family that build something. Also those guys are looked up to in the community too as skilled people, so we do got a lot of pride in the skill in our building work, and you gotta come there to see it.

Torsten Schmidt

Do you think that engineers are not getting enough credit for their creative artfulness?

Mike Banks

Yes. Yes, if you look at engineering, and you really look at it, it’s art. It takes a knowledge of the now, and what can be. And it’s just like with you guys, budding music people, you have to have knowledge of the now. If you don’t know where this music come from, what you doing? What are you doing? Do some research. Do some research, look into some things. You can’t go into the future without a good foundation, ’cause you can’t launch your rocket if your rocket just tips over on the pad. In other words, if you got no foundation in what you doing, you might not know what you doing. That might be a good thing, but usually it’s a disaster. You should know some things, and that’s what the people sitting up there on the couch are for. You should know why you want to come to Berlin. All y’all want to come to Berlin, you should know why.

It’s because some older cats realized its potential, and that’s the key word of this discussion. There’s potential in what you can do. You can get rid of these corporate assholes, you can get rid of the right wing, you can get rid of a lot of things, you ain’t gotta talk protests or nothing. Just be independent, keep doing your sound, and people will hear it. That’s how this city changed, ’cause he believed in the sound. He wanted a sound that could unify people from two completely different things. He’s trying to explain it to us, and we like, “Man, I don’t know what you’re talking about,” but he found the right guys, ’cause we weren’t scared to go to East Berlin, we weren’t scared of nothing, ’cause that’s what we come through. None of them guys in Detroit are scared of much, if they really from Detroit. OK?

Torsten Schmidt

So in order to understand how you guys got together, it’s probably first important to understand how you two met first.

Carola Stoiber

Do you remember?

Dimitri Hegemann

Yes, you knocked at the door, I think, in the morning, 10 AM, because I was in an interview. And it was just how to start a label, from a US radio station, and we were into it, [wanting] to start something very small, in West Berlin. No idea how it works. And I think Carola, I remember that you knocked at the door and said, “I’m ready to support this mission.”

Carola Stoiber

No, no, no. I was studying and I met you because we did a test feature [at the] university for radio. So we needed to find somebody to talk to, an interesting subject, and blah blah blah, and that’s when he and his partner were about to start, so that’s how we met. We did this interview, we did this test feature that was broadcasted then in the end. And then the other time in the bar, when we met again, you said, “Why don’t you come and become our secretary?” And nobody knows why that happened, why he asked, and I said, “Yeah, of course, let’s try that.” So I started [as a] secretary on a typing machine for what we all didn’t know was supposed to be done.

Dimitri Hegemann

Yeah, back in the days, Berlin had [its] own music, I must say. I came with a 4/4 beat to Berlin, but we had different sounds. These people, I was really surprised they could not even play an instrument. They called it the genius dilettantes, they make noises. But this was very special for Berlin. Their music described the city. And I was a curious person; I am still. I wanted to get in touch with them, and so I said, “What about doing a festival?” We finally called it Berlin Atonal, and then we started the festival, and so I got into the music again. It was a new format, for new sounds, and for new ways also in filming things. So, John Peel, maybe some of you remember John Peel, the British DJ, radio DJ, supported it worldwide, and I was completely surprised. It was sold out [in] three days, SO36, ’82. And then we went on, and I found more interest in this music, and there was one band I picked up from Sheffield, you know...

Carola Stoiber

Clock DVA.

Dimitri Hegemann

Clock DVA, yeah. They came up with a Mac 2000, they were quite sophisticated. Sheffield is a city in England where all these big names, electro bands, came [from], Cabaret Voltaire, Human League and Heaven 17, and others, and also Clock DVA.

So we signed him. We made this record happen, and through our independent distribution, EFA, [and] their partner in Chicago, Wax Trax!, they [wanted] to release it in the US, the Clock DVA. And I was curious to see Chicago for the first time and I said, “Can I come and check it out?” He said, “Come over.” And when I was there, in this office he had a bucket full of tapes he didn’t like. Jim Nash was the owner there, he died recently. He said, “Dimitri, take anything you want. We don’t take these.” So I grabbed a lottery box, took one thing out and I listened to it and there was this phone number, “313.” I called it from Chicago and on the other line was Jeff Mills. I said, “I’m interested. I’m from Germany and I like your music. Are you into it?” And he said, “Yes, do it.” And we released it in, I don’t know, ’88 or ’87? And so we were in touch with Detroit, first time. And already in ’89 the fall of the wall happened. But I must also say nobody was interested in this music here. We had a hard time to bring records and CDs to record stores, “Can you take some?” And so it was hard; [only the] strong survive.

But in 1990 the last Atonal I managed, I brought Clock DVA over to Berlin and also the project with Jeff, Final Cut. So that was the first visit [by] Jeff in Berlin. And we had no hotel rooms, and so we’re sleeping on the ground, with a sleeping bag and so it was real underground. But a year later already we stayed in touch and Carola was always in between, kept the red telephone to Detroit. No iPhone, no internet. Maybe the fax machine, if it worked, so we got new information.

But one year later, on March 13th, we started the venue, the Tresor club, and Jeff [Mills] and Mike [Banks] and Robert [Hood], it’s a UR concept. It was new. We were not informed, like daily news [would come] over. [Every] two months and we do this Underground Resistance project and that was perfect timing. And you must understand that Berlin was anyway in those days a special situation because of the fall of the wall.

And Carola you can say you were in New York [at] this seminar when you bought this holy cassette with this track on it, “Sonic Destroyer.”

Carola Stoiber

Was it a holy cassette? It was in ’91 and I was in the US, doing an after-university drive for six weeks and then I ended up in New York. I fell in love with New York so I came back and told them that I should go to the New Music Seminar because it’s really important for the future of the music and the label, because I wanted to go back. And this is where I met Underground Resistance and the whole crew, and they were just ready to conquer the world with their sound, that was their statement.

And so it’s important to know also that, of course, there [are] some parallel lines in the development. For us, we discussed it earlier, it seems [like] there’s years in between, but it was not, it was sometimes weeks or months. And also the parallel lines are important because at the same time there was Hard Wax record store in Berlin that was and is still an important store for the music that was out because they bought it, they sold it again. So that’s “Multiplikatoren,” I don’t know how to say that in English now.

And they were also looking for the DJs who were able to perform the music for Berlin. So at the same time they were checking if, I think it was Blake...

Mike Banks

Damon Booker.

Carola Stoiber

Damon Booker [could] come over to present the music they imparted and we were doing the same thing pretty much then for the club, because they found a space and the club was about to open so we needed music too. So that’s also this kind of... Snowball.

Torsten Schmidt

But by then you already had a different role, I guess. I mean earlier I was thinking, “Hang on, secretary? That doesn’t sound too punk rock for a punk rock label.” But that sounds a lot more like the person running the label.

Carola Stoiber

Yeah, I mean that’s how I started. That’s what the bosses liked... You had the woman that was typing there. But then it all happened and everybody had to step out and do something. It was not that, “You’re the head of this, or head of this.” We were three people, so we just started to take what’s possible. And then also by accident, I didn’t know that I would meet them there in New York and they would be ready. And then it was all fitting.

Dimitri Hegemann

I really must say, I must give credit also to Hard Wax. They took over the bookings for us because they were in touch with all these labels from Mike and so many new artists. It was a lucky moment that we had real serious help from Hard Wax regarding the booking. But I must also say, in those days, we had really no idea if this music would take off or would work. We thought maybe it’s a trend, like punk. Comes in, gets out, like jungle. We had no idea.

For instance, at Tresor club, we made a contract just for three months. Who makes a contract for three months? “OK, maybe we have at least ten shows and maybe we’ll see what’s going on.” And I think the atmosphere... We took much more risks and we had a lot of passion. And I also remember when the cats came over from [the] US, some of them did not know where are we now. Are we in the East or the West? Where are the Nazis? [laughs]

It was a very interesting historical moment because this techno thing was a common subject for the kids from the East part of the city and the West part. Both discovered it, it was not somebody like me or anybody, said, “This is what you have to eat.” They liked it. Mainly, in my perception, it was a success dependent on the spaces we could use. The darkness and the dark rooms were very important.

To meet in dark rooms and not to leave at 1 AM in the morning, we could stay there forever. This was a great freedom. A great feeling of freedom, of a new beginning, and then Dr. Motte and the Love Parade came also, so that was...

Torsten Schmidt

Before we get there, maybe so people get a bit more of a sonic idea, Calum was so kind and put together the transition of Jeff’s first project into UR, and I guess you guys released both of those things, at least over here in Germany. And let’s probably listen to that for a second.

(music: Final Cut – “Open Your Eyes”)

(music: X-101 – “Sonic Destroyer”)

Dimitri Hegemann

[applause] I remember when this tape came on and I had played it to friends and in the night, in another club, the E-Werk, we were very, very excited, and I met Daniel Miller from Mute Records. I played it to him close to the toilet. “Listen to this on the walkman,” and he was excited. He said, “Dimitri, you must wait with the release.” We were very, very excited and this song became a big smash hit in all [the] clubs it has been played [in] and it started something new. I think we released it in September. We opened in March ’91, and we released [it in] September ’91. Even a “Boulevardpresse” [tabloid newspaper] came. I never forget, like The Sun, and they had a young journalist who was so amazed about this record. He said, “Can we do an extra issue of 100 white copies?” in white vinyl, and we made them and it was so great. So everybody was in this fever. And this was really a new beginning of music, and also this music brought the people really together. It has been played in all venues, in the Love Parade, in all the clubs. And I must say today, 25 years later, or 28 years later, 30 years later, an evergreen. It’s still good, despite all the new technology.

Torsten Schmidt

I mean the track is called “Sonic Destroyer,” and it still has a little bit of sonic energy in it that translates to now. Can you remember, you went to May Day one, right? May Day one? The rave?

Mike Banks

I don’t remember. I can’t remember, man. I might’ve went to May Day one, but I know when we kicked that off, just like the other night, two nights ago when we kicked it off, the boys still remembered it. Whoever was behind us was in trouble. But the song was to rip off the head of any DJ in front of Jeff. ‘Cause they would always try to out-spin him, so it was to destroy the DJ. Also destroy record companies, corporations, anything we felt was trying to get ahold of us. And I should point out that we have released a record on UR that is UR013.5 and we have been selling records to Hard Wax a lot. That was my first guy, was Mark Ernestus, Hard Wax, and we had been selling them quite a few records back and forth.

Jeff was a radio DJ. They was putting a lockdown on Jeff about playing Public Enemy. He was getting pissed off. I was a session guy just like I do sessions for y’all. And that’s how me and Jeff met. And I worked on that first track, “I told you not to stop.” We got the sample from Apocalypse Now, where my man said, “I told you not to stop. Let’s go.” And they shot up the whole boat full of people. And the next track was “Sonic Destroyer.” That’s an Oberheim OB-Xa doing that, [makes descending synth voice] all the voices of it. And a DX100 on the bass. Digital. Yamaha. So for you guys into synths, that was a power combo. But the reason we went with Dimitri was ’cause we trusted Mark. Mark was saying that Dimitri was good people and Mark was reiterating that. Mark came over to Detroit, he was the first one I saw, and me and him hung out and we became fast friends and we still partners to this day. Mark’s only concern is the record. The record. The record. The heat. Mark’s a little bit of a hustler. “It’ll sell Mike, it’ll move. This one might not, this one will.” He’s a business owner. So he came over, we did a lot of good business together. We had a lot of good times running around Detroit at night and laughing and joking, but we built the trust.

I’ve worked with Mark. Jeff kinda worked with Dimitri and then me and Carola over the facts. So there was a trust building, but what we did know with this techno stuff, we saw how London was just way too fast for us. We couldn’t keep up with London. London was vicious, man. So the guys would come back, Juan [Atkins] and Derrick [May] and Kevin [Saunderson] would tell us all the London stories and I had heard enough. US radio; you might ask yourself, well why did none of this techno music go off in the US and you gotta think about it. None of the European labels had the money to pay the US game and truly the hip-hop had bumped us off. It was just so powerful. The hip-hop was just killing the game and that’s what really pissed Jeff off ’cause they wouldn’t let him play Public Enemy. He’s on the main radio station in a mostly all black city, Latinos, and Arabs, and we can’t hear Public Enemy. So Jeff smelled a rat. I already knew it from doing sessions that it was fraudulent. The whole major business, I’ll tell them right now, it’s a fake. Y’all listening to fake s---. You listening to one-tenth of what music could be. Your heroes are just bulls---. There’s so much production and guys like Just Blaze and Ango and all these people back there working behind this artist. Some of the artists, this many of them: Truly talented. Most of them is frauds. And they just build them up, like a lot of these DJs out there, like my man from PCP was telling you, they frauds. They build them up, they get publicity agents, they pay them $10,000 a month. Anybody can be a top DJ. Don’t believe that s---. You need to make your own s---, put it in your own city, make your own club, put your own records out and somebody will come to it. You gotta have faith. And that’s what I see. All y’all moving to Berlin, it’s too late. [laughter] Berlin already did it. You need to go somewhere, Warsaw, Poland or Brisbane, Australia. Take your ass there and start something. You know they already... It’s down, they got it. You can pay $5, come on in the club, they got you. What you looking for here, it might not be here. You need to do something else. I’ve been listening to y’all dreams and stuff, you come back to Detroit, you see what that music could do for your own city. We ain’t the best in the world, but I tell you what, we got a lot of beautiful moments, and it covers up all that... What they show there. Covers it up like nothing. I feel rich. I got friends, food and music, just like you got here. And when you leave the Red Bull [Music Academy], guess what you’re gonna take with you. Not your track for your EP. You’re going to take 30 friends from all around the world that you’re going to be friends with forever. I don’t even know if the corporation knows that that happens. But I think that they do. I think they do. OK. You may hear whatever you hear, but if it’s 30 friends from around the world, that kinda refutes the norm. You gotta look at s--- a little deeper. I do. Plus I’m an infiltrator. I don’t care who give me the mic, if I can tell y’all, stay independent, do your own s---, start your own distributions, compete with Mike, come to Detroit, I’ll teach you how to do that too. We destroy bulls---. When you’re down in the clubs dancing and there’s gay people and drag queens and nerds and everybody together, that destroys order. It destroys it. They don’t know how to manage this s---. They’re trying to get you under control. And if you keep listening to the radio, you can come to Detroit and see a whole bunch of programmed mugs. They programmed for violence and f--- you. That’s pretty much it, man. And that s--- is... It ain’t like what they got here.

I watch my city de-evolve into... We used to think David Bowie was cool. Edgar Winter. Gino Soccio, [Giorgio] Moroder. We had all kind of different color heroes. George Clinton, Sun Ra, Gil Scott-Heron. We had so much diversity in the radio, it was reflecting in the city. That’s where Detroit techno really come from. From diverse radio. Good TV programming. Y’all keep supporting this bulls--- and you gonna see... You won’t ask how it is to live in Detroit, you gonna be living in it. Trust me, you’re going to be living in it. Someone is going to put a hat on you and tell you to shoot this guy right here. “’Cause we don’t like him.” OK? And you ain’t even gonna ask the question, just do it. So if you get programmed, that’s on you. I come from a city that wasn’t programmed. Now I live in a city that’s programmed. It’s tough to watch the kids on their way to prison, to the hotel. It’s really tough. I try to tell them, “Brother, you’re headed the wrong way.” But, you know, a hard head makes a soft ass. I can’t save them all. And I do care about y’all.

Torsten Schmidt

Word. [applause] In order to introduce, video number seven, maybe you could tell a little bit about the power that music and radio can have if we listen to “Rock Lobster?”

Mike Banks

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I can personally tell you that this song right here, y’all ain’t gonna believe it, but we had a lot of gangs in Detroit and guys were gang-banging, and Mojo would play this next song and before he would play it he’d say, “Not a shot will be fired in the next hour. Not a shot will be fired in anger or hate in this next hour. Prepare yourselves and take a ride to ‘Planet Claire.’” And here you go. You’re supposed to drop it right there. [laughter]

Torsten Schmidt

Well I heard the story mildly different but with “Rock Lobster,” but it sounds like a pretty good Mojo rendition anyway. Who’s Mojo anyway?

Mike Banks

Electrifying Mojo is like Bruce Lee’s teacher. He’s like the Shaolin, the head monk of the city. He was our spiritual guide, he was our musical guide, he was our diversity clerk, he was the guy that educated us through our ears and through rhythms and textures and music and he had a big gumbo pot full of music from all around the world. I think our market was so abandoned, I don’t think the major record companies care what Detroit listened to. So, I mean the DJs could pretty much go at it however they wanted, and they played what people needed, not what they was told to play. They play what we needed. And it really, really, made for a more tolerant city. Yeah, we was broke, but we was progressive as hell. I think we was truly 30 years ahead of the rest of the world by this one DJ... Well it was him, Jeff Mills, Alan Oldham, DJ T-1000 and a few other DJs that really... The spirit was, “Man I’m about to drop some new stuff. Check this out.” And guess what. We had import records coming in. We don’t have imports now. Y’all better watch it in America. We don’t have nothing from Europe coming over there. We gotta go to the suburbs to get something from Europe. We used to have imports... Think about this, nobody in Berlin sends us no records. We only get them from Hard Wax. It’s like we’re smart enough to make the music, but too dumb to listen to it. Nobody markets their music at Detroit. OK. That’s an irony like a mug. We don’t have no modular store in Detroit, but techno come from there. We don’t have an Ableton store in Detroit, but techno come from there. They looked at us the same way with music. Like, “Whatever. I ain’t spending no money in there.” And so guess what, we had some of the best independent, crazy music in the world, and this track here, literally ended gang fighting ’cause once you go “Rock Lobster” and you put your hat on and do the “Rock Lobster,” you really can’t be too tough anyway, man. Guys be like, “Hey man, what’s up with that “Rock Lobster” man?” You like, “Dog, that’s what’s happening. The women like it. F--- you. [laughter] I’m down with them. I ain’t going with your ass.” That’s how it was. Cats went and it was the new wave and it was cool and you could come to school and look crazy as hell and not get your ass beat. And I think that was a great time and I’m glad I lived through it.

(video: The B-52’s – “Rock Lobster”)

[applause] That’s how... You can’t imagine... I mean, I know they don’t paint that picture of Detroit, but you can’t imagine that getting played but it was one of the hottest records there. We was really wide open and your radio stations and your countries and towns should be that wide open. If it ain’t, you should complain and ask... All you guys got good music, it should all be on the radio. A lot of y’all. Everybody got good music and you got no outlet. The only place we could go was underground. And that’s how all this happened over here. There was no way we was going to get on the radio. And I don’t know if you guys saw Christian Rich when they was here in the first term, but they do... I’m sure Just Blaze could talk about it too. But you ain’t got no money behind the record, you ain’t getting on big radio. You can forget it. Whoever wanted to be a pop star, you a popping fool. Some bulls---. It’s some bulls---.

Torsten Schmidt

So you guys then got these tapes, and as you called it earlier, the holy tape. How do you turn the holy tape, and make sure it gets to kids all across the world, and turn the holy tape into an actual project and a cultural artifact?

Carola Stoiber

Back in the day, that was quite a process. You got a DAT, pretty much, then it had to go to the mastering plant for DAT, and then it was sent to the pressing plant and then... OK, vinyl is still on, so then the mother plates, the father plates had to be pressed and you got the white label and you had to check the sound. They needed to approve the sound, so you needed to send the white label to the US by post. Takes a little while, too. Then they send a fax, “Everything fine, you can press.” Then the pressing started and you had to get the cover printed, then the finished product ended up at the distribution, hopefully with no mistakes. And then from there on, the distribution people, label managers you had, started to offer it to the stores that were buying this kind of music, and then they sold the record. And if you’re lucky, you sold a few. Then more, coming more and more. And yeah, that’s how it went, and that’s how the records ended up on the turntables of the consumer.

Dimitri Hegemann

It was no big competition in those days. Actually there was no sound of Berlin. It didn’t exist, people say. Detroit techno really opened our ears and eyes, and it was a kick off of something very special. And I remember when Juan came and stayed in Mike’s house, and we did some work on the reel-to-reel tapes in the night. There was no digital editing, and so... and then cut here, [makes cutting motion] then duplicate the parts of the tape, and it was really handwork. And yeah, and people bought records in those days, it’s nice, vinyl. We have changed. Everything has changed now.

Torsten Schmidt

Did you guys, then, while there was no sound of Berlin, start developing sounds of other cities as well, let’s say Detroit, Brighton, to a degree?

Carola Stoiber

I don’t necessarily agree that there was no sound of Berlin. There were people already coming also from the guitar music, cross-over industrial stuff, and started to do purely electronic music. They weren’t so known yet. And then the Detroit techno came and proved to them that they should go on with what they were doing. And then pretty soon, also quite a hard way of techno came from Berlin people. So don’t necessarily agree, it was...

Torsten Schmidt

I’m staying out of this. It’s your office argument.

Carola Stoiber

No, no. It was there, but it was maybe hidden. Still a little bit hidden, and Detroit made it come out.

Dimitri Hegemann

It’s a different view. I mean, when Basic Channel started, that was for me a real value that made electronic music rich. Most of the stuff back in the days, was that people tried to copy this or that.

Torsten Schmidt

Which had its own charm at times.

Dimitri Hegemann

What?

Torsten Schmidt

Which had its own charm at times.

Dimitri Hegemann

Yeah, but I mean I didn’t realize it so much, I didn’t take it serious. Now it has changed, you know? The technology is here, Berlin is a city of techno. We have, as Mike said, Ableton, we have Native Instruments, we have incredibly many clubs here. We have nighttime programs, we have the best bookings here. Every weekend I think everybody’s in town. It’s a techno city. Techno is pop.

Torsten Schmidt

Which is interesting ’cause at that time, I mean you were pretty outspoken about it, and you, at least then, viciously hated pop music.

Mike Banks

Yeah, I mean I didn’t hate it ’cause of the artists. I mean actually, I liked Elton John. I just say it like it is.

Torsten Schmidt

Big Aerosmith man as well.

Mike Banks

Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, I like all of that. I like music, but I learned in the studios, and again I holla at Just Blaze, but I saw some of the dirtiest stuff being done. They bring in three big old church girls to come sing something and say, “Hey could you do a little dummy lead?” And then you know, the lady would do the lead, 50 bucks or whatever. And then they’ll bring in, some girl that do 500 sit-ups a day and all that s---, and they’ll bring her in and have her try to mimic what the other woman had put down. And if she couldn’t get it tight, they’d take a sampler and pitch her up, and put her in tune. And of course, the big woman got $50 and the other girl’s on the front cover of the album.

I started to learn from the asshole out of the industry that it was fraudulent. I was like, “Man she didn’t even sing that record. The other girl sang it.” So I knew better. And it was disappointing. Jeff was getting disappointed on the radio, so you had two guys that was... We had dreams like kids, too, we wanted to go out and be in a band, and travel round the world and all that, but me seeing that, I started to realize that man, this is a fraud, this is terrible.

And they would mail the tapes to Detroit because the Detroit session musicians cost less money than LA or New York. So they get us for 100 bucks, 50 bucks, and then in New York or LA, that same session, the guitar work or the keyboard work, it might be $1,800, $2,000 an hour. So like I said, I know I can’t blanket cover every artist, I like Childish Gambino and Kendrick Lamar, I’m just shocked they on the radio. I’m shocked that Chance The Rapper... And so maybe it’s somebody out there thinking right, but y’all know what I’m talking about. This stuff is just so bubblegum, man, and cliché man, it’s just like a formula. They throwing formulas at you, man. You do that s--- with Tylenol or cough medicine, you don’t do that with art. You can’t make art into a formula, man.

So you know, if we allow them to take the art, we gonna be in some serious trouble as humanity. I’m literally up here 35 years in this, trying. All we was trying to do with UR is inspire creativity from other places, and we figured if enough of it went around the world, like what happened here in Berlin, it’d be a lot of nice cities to go to and hang out in all night. At least you ain’t gotta sit up and just listen to bubblegum all day, man. I can’t do it dog. My reality is not bubblegum. My s--- is some used bubblegum on the bottom of my shoe, that’s my reality man. So just to show it, nice bubblegum fresh in the package, it don’t hit it for me, man. I need some real s--- like Alice in Chains, or something like that. You know what I’m saying?

Torsten Schmidt

On that note, are you legally allowed these days to talk about what session work you were working on? Or how did that actually work? ‘Cause most people don’t actually have a grasp of how that world actually works.

Mike Banks

We were good musicians and we would ask the studio owner, “Hey man, if somebody need a guitar, or a bass, or whatever.” Amp Fiddler did it too. Amp Fiddler was one of the crew. And we hang out at big 24-track studios and it was a way to make a little cheese, using your skill. Better than doing evictions or standing up 30 stories in some building; if you fall, you’re dead. I found it easier, easier to do. And I also met a lot of great guys, like Jeff Mills, Duane “In The Mix” Bradley. I was starting to get on some serious records, and that was cool. I met my studio guru George Clinton, just sitting around like we do in the lunchroom where we talking. And he give me advice on how to separate the bass drum from the kick drum. Spacial...

Torsten Schmidt

Hang on, isn’t that the eternal quest?

Mike Banks

It’s one of the battles of mixing, but I also was privileged to see tape looping, and Erik was back there showing the ladies tape looping. But I saw tape looping and didn’t think nothing of it, and then you got whole industries based on that Detroit invention. George Clinton was a part of inventing tape looping. It was him, I believe Jim Vitti, an engineer, but George Clinton did that. And for all the people that think that George Clinton is kinda like a space cadet, no he ain’t. My man knows the mixing board. And he knows big mixing boards, Neves, the SSL. He ain’t no little guy when it comes to mixing. He know what he doing. And furthermore, he’s very forthright about sharing.

And so I figured if George Clinton could be a good guy, and Ralf Hutter, another very dear friend of mine. If Ralf Hutter from Kraftwerk could be a nice guy, I don’t see why none of y’all gotta take no s--- from some of these bulls--- DJs. Telling you, they ain’t that big. They spinning other people’s records. They a DJ. There’s nothing wrong with being a DJ, but don’t get out of place, OK?

Torsten Schmidt

In order for some of these DJs to get where they are, they had to figure out how people get their things to sound a lot better. And, I mean earlier on you disclosed two or three machines that you were using; around the time of those releases you were extremely protective of that.

Mike Banks

Yeah, yeah.

Torsten Schmidt

But you clouded it well. I mean, it added to the mystique.

Mike Banks

Yeah, I mean I was extremely protective against Europeans. I figured, s--- if they take your country, it would be nothing to take your track. So I wouldn’t let ’em nowhere near the studio, nor talk about what we used, or allow none of my guys to do it. I traveled around the world a little bit now, and I know better, I know some good people, and I figured I’d share what I know. I can talk about machines that’s 30 years old, that’s no problem. I still got an edge, you know what I’m saying? I keep my secret weapons, but...

Torsten Schmidt

And at the same time, sometimes it makes the people really happy ’cause in the case of Tom Oberheim for example, who wasn’t really aware that you guys even existed, and then he would know, “Oh ‘Jump’ is done on one of my machines.” And when we played him “Sonic Destroyer,” he was like, “Oh, those kids are doing that?” Well they’re not kids anymore, but yeah.

Mike Banks

Well you know my biggest thing with gear, is that some people just get way over analog. And yeah, we use DX100s, DX27s, Casio CZ-101... We pretty much use whatever we can get our hands on. Everything was discarded technology. When the DX7 came, that made a lot of the big boys, the big eight-voice synths available to us, the Oberheim...

Torsten Schmidt

How did you get a hold of a DX7?

Mike Banks

Oh I didn’t get a DX7. I was just glad it got made. I got a hold of some of my other keyboards...

Torsten Schmidt

Wasn’t there some church involved somewhere?

Mike Banks

Yeah, but I don’t wanna talk about that.

Torsten Schmidt

What, we can’t talk about church anymore?

Mike Banks

Yeah. No I got some friends and they love... One of my friends is like a Oberheim freak, if he was here he’d be at Schneider’s trying to figure out how to get the modular out the front door without being seen. He was...

Torsten Schmidt

That doesn’t sound too church-y.

Mike Banks

Yeah, yeah. He was something else. But yeah, no. Digital technology was also part of Detroit techno. I don’t think Derrick May would mind, but the Mirage sampler, Ensoniq ESQ-1, these type of... We pretty much used whatever we could get. And the keyboards, it was all pawnshop gear. Mostly pawnshop or Craigslist type of stuff that you would get. Or other ways. So, evictions, stuff like that. It’s a good job to have when you need gear. Gear to me, it don’t matter. Me and my girl from Korea, we was working last night, we threw up a couple pieces and got on with it. You don’t need a lot of gear, you need a lot of heart, you need a lot of thinking, you need a lot of love, you need a lot of passion in your s---, you just can’t study... All that stuff’s too slow, too slow. Nothing can beat me, computers can’t beat me, man. They too slow. I think people, if they came to the jam room, you could see it. It’s the techno that’s coming out like that. It’s up to the recorder to catch it. It just comes out, it come through, and you do it, and it’s not thought about. It’s just felt. And I think a lot of the best records, ones from Chicago, Detroit, even the new ones that get made, like if you notice my man from PCP, he was just like, “Yeah just do it, bang!” Guys who make tracks tend to be like that. They not going to over think, and probably a lot of them ain’t got a lot to think with anyway. So it ain’t a lot to do but make the track. God blessed them with what they got, and like me too, it ain’t like I’m no damn Beethoven or something, it’s just, get it done, knock it down, and capture the moment. That is always what I tell y’all, all the time. Catch the moment.

Torsten Schmidt

So with this competitiveness, how did you guys feel when you, all of a sudden, had to somehow deal with that in everyday life, in everyday working life? Did you feel like you were competitively kept out, and only let in to a certain degree? Or how did you manage that?

Carola Stoiber

What level? Label work?

Torsten Schmidt

For example, yeah.

Mike Banks

He talking about between us.

Carola Stoiber

Oh. Competition between us?

Mike Banks

No, some...

Carola Stoiber

I’m lost now.

Torsten Schmidt

No, I mean, earlier Mike was saying they were at least suspicious of the European interest, and...

Carola Stoiber

Our opinion was pretty... Then referring to pretty hippie. We were there and there was new music and we thought this is a new movement, and this is a worldwide movement without the communication skills, or techniques that are there now. And that was global, and equal, and no VIPs and no VIP rooms in the club. And so I think we didn’t see it so much, as competition between us...

Mike Banks

They was... I could tell it was good people. I just want it with my heart. Jeff felt the same way. And we felt the same way about Mark Ernestus, and as y’all can see, these are people who are the pillars of Berlin, the Berlin electronic scene. There’s many others, just not here, but something about ’em was good.

We had been approached by people from Holland, people from England, and they just talked, it was too fast, I wasn’t feeling it. And I felt like if we was going to get one of our records up, I really wanted Jeff to get out here and crush, ’cause I like competing. And I knew Jeff, and I still say this, y’all can put whatever DJ you want to get, whoever making all this big money, you put The Wizard up there, he will bust they ass, guaranteed. They don’t know nothing ’bout no records. They can talk all the s--- they want up here, but my man is good. When you go see him DJ, that’s the real DJ. Derrick, them guys DJ. Some of them boys in Chicago. And I’m not knocking none of these guys. Some of the DJs that came up here... What’s my man, Dixon, when he was telling y’all about being tired and working, that man was telling you right. It ain’t easy. And I could feel his frustration. But there’s many, many frauds out here. Y’all need to look into some of these people. I’m from Detroit. Are you really from Detroit? How many records you got out? What records do you have out? Damn, you don’t have no records out. You just came to Berlin and said, “Yeah I know Mike and Jeff.” A lot of people know us. They come to the record store. That don’t mean they down with me. So I’m just saying, be careful ’bout all this worshipping DJs.

And Detroit, you do good, you do a good job. I seen Jeff in clubs, where the man bring the record and say, “Hey yo bro, play this. Me and my wife got married to it.” And he better play it right, ’cause that’s the biggest drug dealer in the city, right there. So it’s spin or get f---ed up, for real. And Jeff will lay it down, you know what I’m saying? No fear. They’ve DJed under way different conditions, so I’m just saying man, y’all should be careful ‘bout cats with... If you wanna see a real DJ, I’ma tell you what a real DJ can do. They can mix two live drummers together. Live drummer on this deck, live drummer on that deck. And ride ’em. Now you see somebody do that, give them the thumbs up. I guarantee 95% of them guys can’t do it. Y’all don’t even know what I’m talkin’ about, but anyway. [laughter]

Torsten Schmidt

Well...

Mike Banks

Old school know what I’m talkin’ about.

Torsten Schmidt

You also had another little answer to throw in, in the competitiveness with other labels, from other countries. You had the venues.

Dimitri Hegemann

Yes. Yes, venues play a very important role. I think techno wouldn’t have had this success in Berlin if the venues would have not been here. And the reason why Berlin has so many venues is we had a strong bombardment, in the Second World War, so we had a lot of niches. You won’t find them in London or in Paris.

And then we had the wall, and when the wall fell down and the parades started, and this euphoria was there, the euphoria to start something, and the question: How to celebrate this new freedom? So in this moment techno hit Berlin. I talked to my man, kids from the east waiting for something, “Please come over.” We don’t know if it works, but it worked out. We did not know this. We did not know that techno had this strong influence on Berlin’s urban development. So because techno changed the city, this model of... We have seen in Berlin, that maybe five years after the wall was open, there was still no police control, so you had the feeling you could start and experiment, and I must say, many people started an experiment. Not just the clubs, it was also maybe a gallery, or coffee. Because there was nobody who said, “You can’t do this.” It was very weak. You tried something out, and maybe after two years, “Oh no, it’s not my thing,” or, “It is my thing.”

And you all together gave the city a direction, and the direction was conscionable. Now, today, in the year 2018, it became a strong economic force. Berlin without this nighttime... and techno is guilty of everything. You, Mike. But when this came over it influenced other things. Other business came over, like the hostels came up. We have now 60,000 beds. EasyJet came over, and brings every weekend, brings 10,000 people who want to try something out. They say, “There in Berlin is something we do not have in our own city, let’s check it out.” And everybody brings at least one idea, so we have a creative atmosphere in Berlin. I don’t know where you will go after all this nice two weeks, or four weeks. You should take something home, and you should start your own scene, build it up there. Don’t come to Berlin, it’s fully booked. [laughter] It’s better you find your own way.

Mike Banks

Well hey Dimitri, maybe you should tell them about what you wanna try to start.

Dimitri Hegemann

Yeah.

Mike Banks

The foundation.

Dimitri Hegemann

Yeah, we wanna do, Mike and me, we talked since a while about an idea because if we are gone maybe one day, what about our dreams and our philosophy? So we think about to start a foundation, maybe the Underground Resistance Foundation. And it should work somehow, let’s think big, like Greenpeace. It’s about spaces, it’s about people, about operators who want to do something, and have this problem to own a space, or to have to give it up after two years.

It happened to me three times in my life. I build something up, then a landlord comes, “F--- off, go away, close it down.” So we think people really do this idea, and risk and bring passion into a cultural mission. They should have space; doesn’t matter where, in Scandinavia, in Africa, in Asia. And if they cannot afford it, as it was in my case, they could ask our foundation, and we check it out and say, “Wow, your concept is great, we will buy this building, and we will give it to you for 100 years, for 3% of the price.” Just an example, a million, and you pay 30,000 a year, that means two-five a month, and you find out, “Wow I can bring my friends for studios, I can open a coffee shop, I can open a venue.” This is a plan we have in mind, and we will publish it soon.

And how do we finance it? We think the values we have in our foundation are good values. It will keep this movement up, and we take properties out of the speculations, and gentrification. We think people who want to do something should own the building. So we think about a network, worldwide, so we can work together. Because what made Berlin really important also, and also Detroit, is this tiny place, like Submerge, where the people meet. You come to Detroit metro and you don’t know where to go. There’s only this one spot, the building of UR. In Berlin, back in the days we had Tresor or something else. I was in Chile, in Santiago de Chile, where we met Mike, and there was a big movement of techno. But when the clubs were gone, the DJs, Luciano and Ricardo, they all moved away, and now there’s nothing.

The clubs keep this movement alive and that’s why we want to do this foundation, to keep culture venues alive, to make culture venues. And some of you might be not musicians, maybe they’re more let’s say, a promoter, operator, they’re important too. Because it’s not just the music you write, it’s also the party, the place where the community comes together. The dark rooms, no curfew, and you have a party all night long. It’s very important because new ideas get born and you get together with people, and it’s about sharing ideas, it’s about interacting [with] each other. It’s a social thing. And I think this foundation will keep you informed. And when you go back, stay in touch through the net with us, you will hear about it. Join us. We will ask people to donate something, even if it is a song, this is the way how we think that it will survive. We [may] ask even Red Bull maybe, or a company, or Jeff. Because this idea should keep on living. It’s not me, or Mike, or anybody. It is this great philosophy to live together because I’m 100% convinced that everybody sitting here is a member of, or participates in, the big movement, in the peace movement. It’s an idea, it’s an investment in global peace.

Torsten Schmidt

To illustrate that... [applause] To illustrate that, maybe video number one?

(video: Happy Locals initiative)

You can applaud if you want, but I guess all these things do not require any major funds from any state institution, any brand or any benefactor with questionable sources of income. A lot of those things, all they require is an open heart, and a willingness to actually invest time and get together with a person that’s probably closer to you than you think. So that’s definitely a lot of food for thought there.

How does that tie in with another initiative you’re working on called Happy Locals?

Dimitri Hegemann

Yes, the Happy Locals. I mean, how to build a community, like this movie you just saw here, is an initiative. How to keep young people in the countryside, in small cities. We said already, we don’t want that you all move to Berlin, or somewhere. You should stay in your small city, and what we do... What my experience was after now 30 years after the fall of the wall, is [to] give young people space and let it be. And say, “Yes.” This is a message I tell mayors in small cities because the problem we have in Berlin, in Germany now, young people, if they don’t find any platform where they can express their selves when they are 15, 16, 17, 18, they wait till they’re 18 and then they move. They move to Berlin and it’s sometimes very tragic because Berlin, they don’t find this job, they end up as a taxi driver. Because they wanted to change the world with all their power, and they need it [in their] home cities. So we try [to] tell the mayors and the administration, “Keep these people in your home and give them a space, in self-administration. Say, “Yes,” and give them a job maybe.” Sometimes it’s pretentious maybe, one person or two persons, but they run it and then they start an independent, small movement. This was the reason why Berlin became so popular, because there was not this big control by authorities. We could do what we wanted to do and this is what we’re working for, it’s called happylocals.org you’ll find it on. And it make young people happy and it’s also about identification. If you grow up in the city and there’s nothing going on and you just wait, you go back, you don’t come back. You go to a bigger city and the problem of this vacuum, if all these open-minded people move away, the problem is that the right wing mainstream comes up, is rising, taking this vacuum and starts trouble. So I think culture is also a tool, a weapon against this movement, and this is why I really support this.

Carola Stoiber

I keep my fingers very crossed for this. And also because when you said before that you didn’t want to leave your hometown and you had to, so hopefully there is a chance that a lot of people can stay these days, and not have to leave because of that happy... Holidays.

Torsten Schmidt

There’s that, and I think it’s probably not to be taken in an offensive way when you’re saying, “Stay, don’t come to Berlin.” ’Cause I guess a lot of people had to go to a different place but that means don’t forget where you come from. You’re always free to go back once a month, invest where you are and if you make any surplus, invest that into local structure and make sure that, I don’t know, if there’s one kid that’s sat like you on a school bus with UR on the headphones and PE or whatever, and there’s another kid now 20, 30 years later that will probably get that same spark, you already did something good.

Carola Stoiber

Yeah, and I wouldn’t say that so sharp that “Don’t come to Berlin," or, “Stay in your village.” It’s always a matter of where you meet people that [have the] same state of mind, where you feel comfortable with [them] and where you feel [a] certain energy and power. Maybe that sounds really emotional now but it’s how I think. And if you are with the right people then you move something, you can move something. Even if you don’t know the direction yet when you sit together, but something will happen with the art and the music you do then, and that’s pretty much free where that could happen and these days we have a way better way of communication, where you can also talk to people in the city or in the village all the time, depending on where you are, so I guess it’s pretty open.

Torsten Schmidt

On the note of meeting people, I would like to play a bit of music and have all three of you think about how you met that person first and then probably tell those stories right after.

(music: Drexciya – “Aqua Worm Hole”)

Torsten Schmidt

So, Drexciya, “Aqua Worm Hole.” Who wants to go first?

Mike Banks

Well, I will. Yeah, that’s James [Stinson] and company, Drexciya. And I met them, Derrick May called me and said “Hey man, go get your thing man, some guys in my house they crazy as hell.” And one of them was saluting every time the record would come on and the other one was playing with Derrick’s knives or something crazy. Derrick was real worried about them. It’s like, all the guys said, “Oh, you need to be on UR, let me call Mike.” ’Cause people come up and audition music and Derrick and Kevin and Juan be like, “Hey man, you need to go over there with Mike.” ’Cause I like weird music and stuff. Not that they don’t, but if its especially strange. And I feel like they are a part of urban reality ’cause they had a hell of a fantasy there, ’cause I don’t think none of them seen the ocean ever. So I said, “OK, well fellas, let’s hear the tracks.” And when they played them, everything was on 4-track, and everything was like two minutes or barely over a minute and 30 seconds long sometimes and they needed edits. They didn’t really need mixing. They just needed edits so a DJ could use it sometimes, ’cause they weren’t aware of fading in on the record or any of that kinda stuff, they just did ’em.

Me and James Stinson became fast friends, as did me and Gerald Donald and Dennis Richardson, I should name him. And Tyree, James’s brother who’s not available right now. James, me and him really became friends and I decided to start... I thought the music needed to be out, that’s how I felt. I didn’t know what would happen with it. We pressed them up, we sent them out to the distributors and all that, and nobody wanted it. Nobody wanted Drexciya. Nobody. So I was like, “OK, I’ve got a record store, I know Detroit will want it. It’s electro. ’Cause Detroit love electro.” So I just put it in the store and all the Detroit DJs bought it up for about 2, 3, 2 and a half years and then a guy came from England. And I remember him, his name was Ed DMX and he heard it and he just was jumping around, “This is the... Ah man, this is the bomb blah blah blah blah blah...” And he bought them, bought some copies and then the next thing you know the Aphex Twin record label was calling us, he had a record label called Rephlex. And he was calling, asking about Drexciya and all that stuff and I was like... They had a lot of stuff that was dreamy, like that one was kinda dreamy. I liked the hard stuff, of course.

And I thought OK man, you want to license it or do something. And James had a lot of kids, he’s got a lot of kids. I can’t walk in his shoes; he needed some cheese and the Rephlex people was very, very nice and I know they cared about it, the music. So I kinda gave the go ahead, do your thing, and he released the album with Rephlex. And all of a sudden, all them records I had just started selling. Gimme 2,000, gimme 3,000, I couldn’t figure out what was going on. And I guess it was the fact that it was on Rephlex. Same thing happened when Dimitri put it on Tresor. And I thought James had the potential to be an international artist ’cause he had a decent temperament. You know I can’t send them all out here, ’cause some of them boys, I wouldn’t leave them alone with nobody’s sister man. James was a good person and I thought he had a chance at traveling and seeing and doing like we had did. I thought he would be a good representative of black folks. He was even-keeled, he was smart and not only black folks, just Detroit. I don’t like to send the dangerous ones out here ’cause they not good at representing. James would’ve been, but unfortunately he died and that was sad. He was a good friend. He worked for us at Submerge for four or five years. He ran the record store and he met Ralf Hütter. That was his like, ah man, that was his life dream. Ralf Hütter walked in the store and sniffed around. It was a few people, and people was really happy, and Ralf Hütter, like I said, nice guy. Really good guy. Always talking about music, but he really made a big impression on James and James wanted to have a career in music ’cause he was a truck driver. He drove trucks, and yep, good dude, I miss him a lot and that’s all I can say.

Carola Stoiber

Yeah and that’s why he came, you sent him to Tresor Records. Because back in the golden years, when some records were sold, we also did pay advance payments on records to be sold, so that’s why that was possible to pay him some money up front for his kids and hopefully...

Mike Banks

Yeah ’cause UR don’t pay no money up front.

Carola Stoiber

... Stop the truck driver action and that’s why one record then came out on Tresor Records and I had the same problems like you had in the store, because Tresor Records was quite known for very hard stuff, not so dreamy. And the team was saying, “I don’t know about this record and this is too strange,” and I said, “No no no, it is good, it has to go out.” And it was also very, very successful but then unfortunately he died and never came over to do something live. He couldn’t make it anymore which was quite sad, yes.

Torsten Schmidt

Did you ever meet him personally?

Carola Stoiber

Yes, I did.

Torsten Schmidt

How did that go down?

Carola Stoiber

I don’t know the first time, but I know of course in Detroit you were driving in cars and trucks, so we were driving and talking, listening to music in the car. He had to pick something up at home, where also his studio was, in there. But of course, no way that I could come in there. Wait in the car. It’s all hidden territory. So I then go in the car, then go to have breakfast somewhere. Another time we went fishing on Belle Isle. He did this crazy stuff. So he said, “Now we go fishing.” I said, “Where?” “Here in Detroit, Belle Isle.” So we were sitting there doing this with him, talking about what we should do for promotion for the record. It was quite strange. [laughter]

Torsten Schmidt

I mean the man was big on water and I guess, not that I would know any, but geeks around the world, saw a pretty logical conclusion between certain tracks that were hinting at submarine warfare on UR and then it was only logical that someone had a different outlook. Can you somehow explain a little bit about the theoretical concepts and the narratives that were perpetrated by the Drexciya records?

Mike Banks

I think the best way to describe that is a movie out there called Dagon, and that movie was very much a favorite. It’s an old movie. It looks like a European movie, it’s really strange and...

Torsten Schmidt

What are you trying to say?

Mike Banks

It involves fish people. He was all off into mutated, Creature from the Black Lagoon stuff. Yeah, he was way off into that, like your hands turn into gills, and they was really deep into that. It used to disturb me sometimes, some of the s--- they be thinking about, I just listen to them and be like, “Yeah, yeah, let me hear that track.” [laughter] A lot of them is like, I’m telling you, them boys... I put their sound out ’cause I think the world need to know how twisted up you can get. You can get twisted up just staying in the hood the whole time, and everybody ain’t got their hat on crooked and selling dope and going to prison. They different guys.

Carola Stoiber

Drexciyans are underwater warriors that were, this I can’t exactly remember, from the slave boats. They either jumped down or the children. And they just...

Mike Banks

That was The Quest.

Carola Stoiber

Yeah, no, but the Drexciyans, I don’t know, they were the warriors that were rising or, how you say, the next generation of the...

Mike Banks

Yeah they was the...

Carola Stoiber

... Of the people that went on the slave boats.

Mike Banks

Yeah when they would throw the women off the slave boat.

Carola Stoiber

See that’s...

Mike Banks

... They would birth, the fetus would birth underwater, and a lot of that was based on The Abyss, that you can breathe oxygenized water. Anyway, these guys exist at the bottom of the ocean and they ain’t the nicest guys in the world. They trying to understand humanity, which they look at as inferior because they pollute the ocean and they like the guardians of the ocean. Kinda like some f---ed-up sea shepherd.

Torsten Schmidt

But I mean a narrative with the Afrofuturistic power that would put Wakanda to shame.

Mike Banks

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean actually large parts of The Quest, me and James, I wrote most of it based off of The Abyss, the movie The Abyss. But James and them already had a concept of the Drexciyans and the warriors and stuff, so we just built on his concept. I would never say I came up with the concept for them, but I liked that they had an imagination, and that’s what hit, resonated with me the most. I was always taught that a person with no dreams is a dangerous person. With no hope, with no dreams, certainly they don’t carry much of a future with them. Unfortunately in Detroit you can get real, we called it “grayed out.” You get grayed out, you done seen so much that... It’s like the same as a soldier, when they in the war. You just expect to die at any time ’cause you living like that. So, guys like that, obviously, I ain’t got no time for them ’cause my man in a casket anyway. But this guy right here got a dream, even though it’s kinda freaky and I’m trying to understand it. I thought the dream had a sound to it, they had characters to it. It was very intriguing to me that guys from neighborhood like what they come from, which was tight, it was a tight neighborhood, they were from the East side, that they could imagine like this, and I thought they were very unique and their ideology was very unique and I think I guessed right. I think I guessed right and I’m glad I bet on James Stinson.

Torsten Schmidt

There’s another person that’s very strongly connected to all of your work and was a member of UR as well, in the beginning. Where’s Robert?

Mike Banks

Rob Hood? Yeah Rob’s my dog, Rob is a... Yeah, that’s my man. Rob, one of the hardest working guys in UR. He came in, a young rapper with a [Roland TR-]505, and the 505 was played out at that time. That’s all he had. What he lacked in equipment he had in heart and Rob Hood, like I said, he wanted to help. He liked the UR ethos that we had and me and Jeff liked him. He worked, like I said, he worked his ass off and he was always trying to produce tracks and learn more or help us with artwork or whatever he could do to make the team successful. He was a team player and that’s why Rob is an honorary lifetime member, to me, of UR. He’s one of the circle, and he helped early, in any way he could: Packing boxes, answering the phones, sending faxes. His early attempts at tracks, he didn’t have no gear, so we would kinda hand him the gear, whatever we wasn’t using. And that was a lot to throw at somebody ’cause you spanning 20 years of technology. “Hey man, here’s a 707, this a 303, this how you hook it up,” and it was a little much, but Rob... And it’s just like with you guys, you going to find that one piece of gear that talks to you. And Rob finally found it and you can hear a lot of his early experiments on a label that I distributed called Hard Wax. You can also hear some of Gerald Donald’s early experiments, he had a label called, what was it Mark? L.A.M.? I forget but I dropped a lot of their stuff. I knew it wasn’t ready yet but I wanted to encourage them to keep banging. Rob and Gerald Donald kept banging and they are who they are right now and we are extremely proud of Rob, Eunice and their beautiful daughter Lyric, and I sometimes, occasionally, around the world, I see him and we just get the biggest hug and all that stuff. Yeah man. He’s very appreciative of the time we put into him and we very appreciative of all that he did with UR. He caught hell ’cause every time he bring a track we be like, “No, that ain’t it. No, that ain’t it. No.” Then he finally came with something on a, was it X-101? Yeah. It sounded like germs or disease or bacteria and I liked it. I was like, “That’s kinda sweet. It’s like some decay s---.” He was finding his sound but to me, Rob Hood really defined himself on Axis 007. It was on Jeff’s label and he did a doublepack, and that’s when I knew Rob had it, he had it. I mean if you know anything about electronic music you’ll see where he’s heading now. So I’m very proud of all our guys that eventually get out the basement, ’cause that’s where he was at, and come out here and represent. I’m very proud of Robert Hood.

Dimitri Hegemann

I must also add that his albums on Tresor, like Eternal Empire, it’s a classic. It’s actually 25 years ago. That was minimal music that still really functions and works and he influenced a lot. Then he moved to Alabama, became a preacher and if anybody’s here on November 9th, the day when the wall fell, Robert is playing and preaching for the first time. We arranged something...

Mike Banks

That’s next year right? Next year?

Dimitri Hegemann

Next month.

Mike Banks

Oh next month, OK.

Dimitri Hegemann

In one month. In Kreuzberg, in St. Thomas. And this is very exciting. So he will play in a church, electronic music, and then he will talk to the community. So this question comes up, I think it would be great if, is techno a religion? Is it? Or not. I would love to start this debate because I mean the electronic community is already a faith community, and why not, if it works in America maybe. We have great advantages. Text and radio frequencies. Anyway, he is coming at 7 PM. I want to announce Robert is there, and for the first time he is preaching also. I’m very curious.

Torsten Schmidt

I mean the gospel spirit, that’s probably something that was kind of tough to understand and learn for most Europeans and people in other cultures as well. How strongly informed, despite all the harshness, Detroit music is by the gospel.

Mike Banks

Oh yes, it’s very spiritual. That’s why I be at all the students, at the participants at Red Bull, about, “Get out of that book and start feeling something.” Many of us learned to play instruments in church ’cause that’s the place they had them. Or your mother make you do it. “Go take your ass and learn how to do something, play an instrument. I’d be so happy if you was in a band in church, instead of making down in that basement, calling the devil and all that.” Yeah it’s very spiritual and I think one of the masters of it is Derrick May. You can listen to his records and it’s just really, really something extra. Rob’s, every time, everyone once in a while, I might get the feeling. But I think all the guys, there’s something extra, something to it. You can’t really put your finger on it and I don’t think you really should put your finger on it. It’s just there. Its just a spirit of creation, I guess, creating something good.

Torsten Schmidt

In order to illustrate some of that and a little more, could we please watch video number four.

(video: Galaxy 2 Galaxy – “Hi-Tech Jazz” (live))

[applause] I guess we could’ve played one or two others in a similar vein that work well in the morning when the sun comes up. It doesn’t always have to be a beautiful place somewhere in the middle of Japan. But...

Mike Banks

Yeah. No, that was... They waited til the sun came up and we started the track. Yeah, it was special. I mean, that’s what I be talking about the feeling. We felt it. When they did the sax, the melody, we couldn’t even hear the keyboards no more, it was so loud. So yeah, we got a lot of love. And that’s what we take back to Detroit with us. Everybody that come and visit us. You know, people be writing really good stuff on the wall in the basement, and it really goes a long way in helping us deal with what’s happening in the D right now. I can go in the basement, look what people wrote, and it really does carry me through, I can say that. So, it’s a give and take. We give y’all music, people give us back love and it sustains us. So, can we do the questions? [laughs]

Torsten Schmidt

That’s...

Mike Banks

I told everybody we wouldn’t be...

Torsten Schmidt

Alright, so in order for you guys to muster up all the strength and focus for the questions, maybe we play something early from the catalog, in order to get you into the right uplifting mood there.

(music: Davina – “Don’t You Want It”)

[applause] Yeah, Mad Mike, Davina, “Don’t You Want It.” What a joy, and what an opportunity to thank Carola, Dimitri and Mike for being here and sharing with us at length. Please give it up. [applause]

Now, the magic microphone comes floating. Questions.

Audience Member

Hi, I’m Emma. First, I wanted to thank Mike for taking the time to tell these stories that I’ve wanted to ask about over the past two weeks. It’s been great to hear some of this. And then actually, I had a question for Dimitri. I had the opportunity to pick your brains earlier this year in Switzerland at some festival, and we were talking a bit about how it is in places outside of Berlin, in terms of influencing legislation so that venues can stay open, and nightlife can continue, and I know that’s something you’ve campaigned hard for. I was wondering if you had any advice to people who are living in places where it’s not so easy to do things legally, and how best to try to open up spaces, whether to just break the law and go ahead with it, or to try to be legitimate enough to influence something politically.

Dimitri Hegemann

Yeah, call me. I’ll give you my email, and then we have to... We’ll see, it’s a special case. But mostly decision makers, you can get their interest if they see numbers, and influence. If they see money coming in, and what you’re doing. And this is in Berlin, now, they understood, for instance, as I said, we have no curfew, the night is open, we have nearly 200 venues, they open in the weekends. And crime rate down. Not up, down, despite everything is open. So, the best thing is, if we can...

Torsten Schmidt

Are you reading different media than anyone else? I mean, the media always tries to tell people that...

Dimitri Hegemann

No, I mean, I’m talking about the electronic music venues and clubs, what the influence is, and how they can help a city, the urban development influence. So, we have to talk about a special case, but normally there is a way. But you need this one person, this one woman, this one man, this operator who wants to run it. He must be crazy enough, he must bring this passion, then it will work. And if we look in Berlin, all these people who run a spot here, they’re all crazy, you know? Nobody is normal. It’s always a niche business. You cannot learn it. So, if you have it, then you will make it. And we encourage you to do that.

Torsten Schmidt

And all facetiousness aside, it is actually worth it to go to these legislators and show them the real numbers, and go, “OK, there might be a local tabloid that might wanna portray the situation in a city like that, but this is what actually is going on. This is how crime rates are going down. This is how this and that happens.”

Dimitri Hegemann

Yeah, it’s very simple, actually. And especially if it’s a small thing. We have a lot of examples in Germany, or it’s in the Netherlands and Scandinavia, when the small spots become so attractive for all the people surrounding [them], because this is [a] desire of the people, to go to such a space, and to meet people [with similar] thoughts and thinking. And this is the reason why it works, to meet your people, to meet my people. This is that...

Mike Banks

You know, that’s how he got the attention to Detroit. I keep saying it. Out of all these countries over here in Europe, like I was telling y’all, nobody came and said, “Hey, you should play Derrick May on the radio.” Nobody from Europe. None of these guys’ record companies came. Dimitri was often coming to Detroit and talking about you guys, the nighttime economy. He was telling the city government about the money that you’re missing, the tax money that you badly need to help your people, you blowing it, ’cause you cutting off at 2 o’clock. So, he had all these statistics and numbers, and they go, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” they just waiting for him to drop dollars. That’s what they was really waiting on doing. Sometimes, you put a little s--- in the game. You fly ’em to the club. When our guys came over here to the club, they came back like, “We need to open some clubs, 24-hour,” They partied their ass off up in here. And Dimitri brought some city officials over. They came over, they saw it, they experienced it, they lived it, and they still talking about it. And now, we’re getting a little traction. I think the Mayor gave us until what, 4 AM now? And Cornelius has been over there... That’s our manager, for UR, our longtime friend. But Cornelius been battling for it, Dimitri been battling for it, and they got 4 AM. And now we just need to make a club for ’em to go to. But it’s real. This stuff, the economic minister of Berlin told us that they make 900 million dollars a year off electronic music. Three aircraft carriers. EasyJet, Ryanair, three of ’em, to add it to the airport. The guy that’s building the airport here in Berlin, he’s a friend of mine, Dr. [Philipp] Bouteiller. Brilliant man. Gives us information, information on how to build a future city. For Detroit.

Everybody be teasing him, ’cause the Berlin thing is over budget. But the reason it’s over budget, [is] because so many people was coming here, because it’s so attractive to be here. I pay $300 a month for 15 gigabytes a second, for years. I had to pay special money to get an internet line put in in my neighborhood, because they like, “Ain’t nobody got no phone over there. They ain’t got cable. They ain’t got nothing.” I mean, it was a trip, but soon, you guys here in Berlin, you’re gonna have five gigabytes, wireless, free. So, when you share that information with a mayor of a city, and say, “Yo man, you got this billionaire running around putting up internet lines,” that’s what I’m talking about, y’all. You gotta see that. You can’t let millionaires control your communications, you can’t let ‘em control your art, you can’t let ‘em control when you go to sleep. What kinda s--- is that? “You gotta be in bed at 2 o’clock.” Your mama don’t tell you that, when you get grown. [laughter] You got the city government saying, “Y’all go to bed, so you can get up in the morning.” What if I got a night job? They ain’t even... I mean, OK. [laughter] I just get frustrated.

Dimitri Hegemann

It is also interesting, I mean, the department in Berlin, the institution who cares about tourists that visit Berlin, they announced that two-thirds of most people coming, two-thirds come because of [the] alternative culture of this town. Clubbing is one half of it, but also, a cool gallery, a cool restaurant, all the small spots. A cool haircutter. Everything! I mean, there’s many possibilities, but that it worked, that it finally started, was because techno came over, and we had these parties in the night. And therefore that has influenced a lot. That encouraged people to go their own way. So this is my perception. And we had a great framework. Detroit has not... I mean, if we would have... Framework, I mean the curfew. The 2 AM. If Berlin had the 2 AM, can you imagine what this means? A collapse. And you won’t be here, maybe. The nighttime has a special quality, and the best ideas I ever had in life came after 2:30 AM I think. And I don’t know where you come from, but I mean just think about that. And for Detroit, they have now, actually, after we talked, Mike, you met the mayor for the first time. We didn’t open the nightclub, but you started racing. Drag racing, and they have a night ambassador now.

Mike Banks

They do.

Dimitri Hegemann

So, finally, they have somebody who cares. When the mayor goes to bed at 10 PM, you know? 10:30 PM, they go to bed...

Mike Banks

He finally listened to me, ’cause, like I said, I got a little convo with the mayor now, because of Dimitri. And we’ve been racing illegally in Detroit... I mean, it’s the Motor City. Why don’t we have a racetrack? You got all these... Like all y’all is music artists. We got all these artists with these cars, that need to get off. So, we end up doing it in the street. That movie The Fast and the Furious, and all that? All them people was down there listening to the guys talk so they could get their lingo right with the movie, and all this kinda stuff. But I’m saying, you got the Motor City, no motor sports in the Motor City. Got the biggest illegal drag racing scene, probably in the world. Fastest cars in the world. And they running down the street.

So, two plus two is four. When I finally got his ear, I said, “Hey man, why don’t you just make drag racing inside the city? We got an abandoned airport right there.” And they did it. The new mayor, he said, “You know what? That makes sense.” So we did a racing day. Omar [S] wasn’t there. I wish Omar... ’cause Omar is my man, he races. But $275,000 we made in five hours. All the little bad boys in the neighborhood out there looking at the cars. They got in free on they bikes, they rolled in, and gang banging ain’t got a chance against race cars, ’cause that s--- is mano a mano. They see their daddies, and 50-year-old men, “Set it out, run that.” Big money bet. $30,000, $40,000. It’s excitement, you know what I’m saying? So that’s what got me away from being real bad. I was kind of bad, but I wasn’t as bad as I could have been. So, it’s a very necessary thing. And because of Dimitri, and because of the music, we got a little bit of an audience with the city government. I was so proud of a councilwoman, what’s her name Corn?

Audience Member

You talking about Raquel?

Mike Banks

Say it.

Audience Member

Raquel...

Mike Banks

Yeah, Lopez and...

Audience Member

... And Mary Sheffield.

Mike Banks

And Miss Sheffield. They came over, they seen it, and they brought back positive [feedback]. And Adrian Tonon, our nighttime man. We actually got a nighttime manager, and soon we’re hoping we’ll have a nighttime economy. More people getting employed, blah blah blah. Hopefully at the racetrack, so we can race safely. [laughter]

Torsten Schmidt

That sounds like you know something about racing.

Mike Banks

Yeah, come on... Yeah, they don’t wanna know about no race car. Let’s ask another question.

Torsten Schmidt

Alright. Next.

Audience Member

Hi, I’m Tornike. Thank you so much for this amount of inspiration being poured on us. My question was to Dimitri. I guess, from this perspective, it looks really romantic, if that’s the right word to say, to hear about how you came to Berlin and started this movement that’s made these big changes, and how did it feel back then? What were the biggest emotional struggles you had to go through? If this question makes sense.

Dimitri Hegemann

I mean, I made the experience. If you fail, it is a special quality, too. Because even the whole thing with Tresor, for instance, we went like a normal human life. Went up and then everything collapsed. Then we tried to get up again. It was never like this. [makes constant upward motion] We always had the problem. And it’s not really easy to survive. We have many people working for us now and we are a team, but we use this freedom. It encouraged me again and again. But you need one person, or two [people], who really run it. If you have this quality, in a way, or this passion, then you’ll find the people. And it’s very, very important. I think we also inspired other people who manage to do something, but it’s maybe outstanding in a way.

I think somebody must start, even if it is small. People will find out, and find the right people. Not the right people, I mean people you like. And this is important, that you find your people, and that you work with values. I have seen already, in Woodstock, with the peace idea, violence-free, and with the green idea, and the freedom and tolerance, these are good values, they stay forever. And even if you start a very small spot, if it’s a Dada club or something like that, I give you the advice, you find the right people, they will find you. And you should start in the place where you come from. But it’s romantic, in the way that you... For me, it was that you could realize it. That was enough. Even if sometimes the thing is very popular, everybody knows it. But from the economics, it’s bad. You cannot say you’re so popular, and you’ll make so much money. No, it doesn’t work.

And also important, is to give something back. To remember where it came from. I tried this also with many talks with Mike and Mike’s team and so on. And you feel good, if you let it go. Even if we do the foundation one day, I would love to put everything into the foundation, and the foundation cares about us, and it can give many people a direction, what to do. I think the time is over, mostly, that somebody, or a label tries to make as much money as they can do, because I must realize that many, many labels go this way. And promoters, especially. Promoters do the big festivals, but they don’t care. And looking back to the Love Parade. The parade actually, I mean, some promoters organized it, but the parade is a symbol of a feeling of togetherness. The desire to come together with people who share ideas, the same ideas and values. And that’s the reason why it became so big. And it became so big that 1.5 million people got together. But the management could not handle it. They couldn’t give them enough social input. But I think if we would start it again, with something, it would be packed immediately. This is a desire of people, to be together, and to work together. And this is also, I think, one of your challenges. When you go back and do something. And we are ready, we still can move Mike. Me and Carola will be coming, and maybe try to help some more.

Torsten Schmidt

Carola, anything you would like to add to that?

Carola Stoiber

Keep on with passion.

Torsten Schmidt

As simple as that. But as essential.

Mike Banks

That’s right, that’s right.

Torsten Schmidt

Alright. Coach Banks, any closing remarks?

Mike Banks

No, I’m good. If y’all good, I’m good. I know y’all are tired. Thank all y’all for hanging in there with me. I know y’all are tired, and I know y’all gotta get back in the studios, and all that. And I’ll be back there with you. So, thank you for sitting and listening to all this. Hopefully it’ll have some impact on you.

Torsten Schmidt

Well, thank you. And to class of 2018, please join me once again in thanking Carola, Dimitri and Mike. [applause]

Carola Stoiber

Thank you guys.