Skepta (2015)

Hattie Collins

Hello. How are you doing? You all right? Good, good, good. Welcome to the final leg of the Red Bull Music Academy UK Tour. We’re finishing things off in Manchester at the Albert Hall. Before me I have man who’s had a pretty good career, but the last year has been fairly remarkable. I think we’ll all agree. He’s had three massive hits. He’s appeared on stage with Kanye West. He has worked with everybody from Ratking to A$AP Mob to his own brother and long term collaborator, JME. Some people know him as Joseph Junior Adenuga. Please welcome Skepta.

Skepta

Yo. Thanks everybody for coming today. It’s quite sick. Hattie didn’t get an introduction.

Hattie Collins

Oh.

Skepta

Can we get a round of applause for Hattie?

Hattie Collins

Thanks.

Skepta

This is Hattie Collins. She’s dedicated her life to the whole culture, to the whole style, all the whole sounds, everything. She’s dedicated her life to it. I hope by the end of this we can get some kind of award for you for dedicating her life to this shit. She deserves it. Hattie Collins, remember that name.

Hattie Collins

Thank you. I’ve dedicated my life to that and, like, TV. ER, Game of Thrones. You name it, I watch it. How are you, how are you feeling? Welcome to Manchester. You’ve been here before I’m sure.

Skepta

It’s a second home.

Hattie Collins

Oh, second home? How come?

Skepta

Manchester is sick, man. I like Manchester because, I can’t remember exactly what year it was, but I was up here for a while with President T and a couple of youths on the road. I was up here on my stupid shit just doing stupid shit. I won’t even say it again that it’s just kiddie shit. When I was on the streets out here, that’s where I just learned all this style. I used to come up here in Air Force Ones and they used to be like, “Yo, why you wearing them fucking Yankee craps. Yankee trainers?” They made me switch up that whole shit and get into shocks, into black windbreakers. The whole style that I’ve adopted in the past couple years is definitely based on Manchester, Liverpool style.

Hattie Collins

Interesting. Do you feel that they are much more true to the British sense of style than people are in London?

Skepta

Yeah, I think London for a long time, they’ve always gravitated towards Americans. Whereas up North I think they just, like — it’s just greasy up here, innit? [laughter] Yeah, in London you can go to cool, just do loads of exciting things for rap and whatever. Any kind of entertainment. Up north this is the grease. Guys are really out here trying to get this money. The dress code is like “get this money” dress code.

Hattie Collins

What is a get this money dress code?

Skepta

It’s exactly what I explained, man, it’s just all black. There’s windbreakers, tracksuits. You’re getting me straight grease. Hats down low, curved peaks so they can’t see, man, you get me? The whole style that I’ve adopted. That’s why I had to check back, I had to really check back for Manchester, spiritually. Not just looking at pictures and things. Really talking to my old bredrins that I used to roll with up here, just gauging where their vibes are in their head and stuff like that. Really — the lifestyle. More than just trying to fucking just do it. You get what I’m saying?

Hattie Collins

It’s hard as well because the media — and I speak as a member of that media, which sounds a bit disgusting — but you do tend to concentrate on people in London. The focus tends to be on people from London. People are forced, almost, to move down to places like London or New York or LA. If you’re not from a capital city then you tend to have to gravitate. That’s not too fair, I guess. Would you like to see that shift? That power that places like London have, would you like to see that spread a bit more like with more democracy?

Skepta

Yeah. I’ve never really liked that. I’ve never really like that. It’s like a trickle down. It starts in America, kind of goes to some other places, London, Paris, and stuff, then everyone else is like, “Fuck that.” I’ve never really liked that. Even like me adopting the dress code or clashing Devilman from Birmingham or whatever. It’s always, no matter what it seems to other people, it’s always to spread the vibe. You know what I’m saying? I could have clashed anyone on Lord of the Mics but I clashed Devilman because I want Birmingham accents to be recognized in music, you know what I’m saying? I want all the accents to come through in music and I want everybody to always, I’ve always wanted people to be on the same level playing field, that’s what I’ve always wanted.

Hattie Collins

Continuing on with that, do you think there’s a little bit behind the interest that grime is generating at the moment from American artists? We’ll get onto it a little bit more later but is there anything to do with that with people like Kanye and Drake being like, “Actually, yeah, there’s these people in London, there’s people around the world that actually we need to hear their voices as much as we need to hear our own.”

Skepta

I don’t know their incentives or their motives and stuff like that. For me, personally, I just like — especially traveling, this job allows me to travel, I get to go to so many different cities and see so many different people from the ’hood that are going through things in their own area that I relate to. You got what I’m saying? And I’m like, just because I’m from London or whatever, why can’t their music be heard as well? I want to listen to their music. I want to do songs with them. I want to do — I just want to put England... Like, when I go around the world, I really feel like they don’t know that we have ’hoods here.

Hattie Collins

They have no idea.

Skepta

Yeah, no, I don’t think they have. It’s like I’m not trying to show that this is a greasy place but we have all ends of the spectrum just like everywhere else. It’s like autopilot for me now. I don’t strategically go and be like, “Oh yeah I’m going to...” It’s just me, I just live my life, and I just meet people and I just love to spread energies. Good energies.

Hattie Collins

Are there artists outside of London that you’re particularly into at the moment? Anyone from Birmingham or Manchester that you could care to name that you think are making good music?

Skepta

I’ve always felt Trigga from Manchester. Shadow Demon. I just think he startled us all sick for a moment. It’s just the epitome of Manchester gangster.

Hattie Collins

Yeah, yeah.

Skepta

Birmingham just what everyone’s listening to, I think it’s safe to say that Birmingham is on the map now. Everyone knows who we’re listening to in Birmingham, they’re straight on the map right now. Yeah I just listen to... I don’t know what I listen to.

Hattie Collins

I know it’s hard to tell but you are, in theory, jet lagged right now, right? I don’t know if anyone can tell. You don’t look too jet lagged to me. You’ve just got back from where, you just got back from LA?

Skepta

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

Could you tell us what you’ve been doing in LA? Please?

Skepta

[silence]

Hattie Collins

It’s like the ghost from beyond.

Skepta

I’ve just been doing studio sessions with loads of different people.

Hattie Collins

You can go on the internet now and look at stuff, right? I’ve been on Instagram and I’ve been on your twitter. It feels like something interesting was maybe happening out in there, out in LA. Can you tell us a little bit about who you were working with in LA, specifically?

Skepta

I was working with loads of people. I was working with many people. Nah, I’m playing. I was working with this up-and-coming rapper called Playboi Carti from Atlanta. Did a session with him. I was working on some stuff with Kanye. I was working on some stuff with Earl Sweatshirt. Literally, I was in the studio at Red Bull — thank you Red Bull for always supporting and looking after me wherever I go — but yeah, I was in the Red Bull studio or I was at Earl’s studio. That’s what I was just doing when I was there, like literally.

Hattie Collins

Were you making stuff for your album or their album or just to see what was going to happen?

Skepta

Yeah, I think that my whole — how can I say it? My whole ethos for making music in the past couple years is all about making music as natural as I can. I fucking hate email music. You send me your verse and I’m going to do mine here, and shit like that. Nowadays you can hear it. You know what I’m saying? When you hear a song and you know right, you two aren’t in the studio together. Who’s getting money here? Which one of you are getting paid here? I don’t really like that. I think that’s just played out in general. I was just out there, just in the studio. When we’re making tunes I’m not like, “Yo, oi, oh, who’s album is this going on?” No, we’re just vibes.

Some days nothing gets made, some days we just fucking crack jokes for the whole day and forget that we’ve not made anything or whatever. Some days we just make beats or just write whatever. I’m just like, I’m going to be back out there. I’ve just found this new way to work. I kind of never expect to finish a song in a day and be like, “Yo, this for for my thing, yeah?” I don’t, like — nah. I’m just out there just working and then whatever happens. I really want Earl Sweatshirt on my album, though, because I feel like over time I’ve been putting in work for this whole wave when I thought of this wave to start it. I feel like certain people in the back end are getting credit for finding me or whatever. It was really going on the radio with Ratking. Know Wave Radio, all the legends that Supreme that were showing me love in the early days, that just came to me and was like, “Yo, we want you to start fucking doing shows or just showing love.” You get me? All them people there, those are the people that really helped me. I need Earl on the album. Then anything else is whatever. It can go on anyone’s album, it can come out whenever it’s ready.

Hattie Collins

How did that actually start then? I remember a couple of years ago we were in New York and we were doing some talk or something and you were off working with various people. Dev Hynes came to your show and all these different relationships seemed to be emerging. How did that actually happen? Because I think what people are sensing is a sense of authenticity from it. It’s not like you guys have just, like you just said, it’s not like you email each other or DM each other and hooking up to work. You’re actually creating friendships first and foremost. Is that right? So how did you do that?

Skepta

Yeah. I think, with the internet, I don’t think anybody’s got a reason to complain anymore. If you make something, the internet is there for you. Just do whatever you want on it. That’s what I did, really. At one stage when I felt like the music scene in the UK was going a certain direction, I just wasn’t happy with what was going on. I wasn’t happy with the way I was making music, I wasn’t happy with the music that was coming out. Nothing. So I kind of took a risk to go back to square one. Took a risk for people to say, “Yo, Skepta’s fallen off.” Or, “He’s weird.” I got called a hipster the other day.

Hattie Collins

You don’t have a beard though.

Skepta

The fuck’s that?

Hattie Collins

You’re supposed to have brogues and a beard, don’t you? I don’t know.

Skepta

I’m a hipster. I don’t understand that, mate. I took a risk to be called all these names because I’ve been at square one before in life. I always know I’m a man and I can come back from anything. It was like, I just wanted to — it’s from the beginning of Blacklisted. I think that was — can I tell a quick story?

Hattie Collins

You certainly can.

Skepta

We went on tour. I can’t remember what tour it was, we were on tour one time. Krept and Konan were with me. We got to Leicester and Charlie, he pointed at a music shop, and he was like, “Yo, that’s where I get all my music equipment from.” And something happened in my mind. I remember someone saying to me one time, “A carpenter isn’t a carpenter if he doesn’t have tools. He could tell everyone he’s a carpenter, but if he ain’t got tools, how are you a carpenter?” Skepta, you’re a musician. Why don’t have a studio? You should have a studio. I was like, “You know what? I’m going to buy a studio and put it on a bus. This might sound American rapper-y but I’m going to put my studio on the bus and just do what we’re doing.”

That’s when we made “Tour Bus Massacre.” Me, Krept and Konan, we made “Tour Bus Massacre” on the bus. Then when we got back to London, I remember, I’d come back and I was like, “I can’t be bothered to take these, like, all this equipment home. I’m just going to leave it on the bus and just go home.” When the taxi turned up I said, “Aw, fuck it man.” Just use all my strength I had to put all this stuff back in the taxi and I took it home. And for the first time, I was able to wake up at 4 in the morning with a thought and just hit the computer. Really free, doing my thing. Doing my thing. It was like, shit! All of a sudden, Blacklisted came out. Blacklisted was made. It was just made so naturally, like sleeping in the studio on the floor. Waking up, just doing little bits and bobs just here and there. Blacklisted was made. When I made it, for me — Konnichiwa’s going to be great, but Blacklisted, for me, was like my realization CD.

Every time I listen to it I’m always going to hear myself. “I like that that happened to you, Skepta. I like that you fought that, I like that you came to that realization one day that this shit ain’t right.” It was from then I started to make music really freely. Then it was when I made “Lay Her Down,” and I said Dev’s name in it, he contacted me and said boom boom boom let’s make a tune and like, that was probably the first, for me, relationship I had with another artist from far away. Because of how organically it happened, I was like, yeah, I’m just going to do all of my music like this.

It’s like, I could make a song with anyone but I don’t feel it man. I just don’t feel it again. Like, I’m a big man. All that stuff is bullshit, you know what I’m saying? All that stuff’s bullshit. I want to know like, do I fuck with you? Before I’m a fan of you, I’m a man, so are you a man? You get what I’m saying? Are you a man or are you coming here to try and finesse man again? You coming here to pick me up so every radio station I get called on, Mr. Jam wants to talk to me about Drake and Kanye? So this is like free radio promo for these guys. You get what I’m saying?

I’ve just clocked that and now I’m just moving away and I know — not to make it about American rappers — around the world they can feel this energy from me. They can fuel the first time like a man, you get what I’m saying? Like, a man that stands for his thing and he’s doing his music whether anyone likes it or not. He’s just doing his thing. That’s why they fuck with me.

This is not about my music, it ainn’t safe, that’s not me. They’re not great, so much greater than anything I’ve made before, but it’s just like my ethos and how I’ve been moving and how I speak to them and when they see me, who they see. You know what I’m saying? They see someone that they’re like, “Yeah, this guy is a soldier in my army.” Yeah, I fuck with him and since then that’s how it’s been moving. I don’t care about no one. I don’t give a shit about who’s sold what. If I like you as a person, we are going to make some music together. It doesn’t have to be the first day we meet. I don’t want to make with you, I be meeting rappers, I don’t want to ask them for nothing, not a drink, not a fucking Rizla, nothing. You get me?

So that’s what it is now. I think that’s the whole, like, everybody should just move like that, man. I understand, like, we’ve grown up watching certain people’s films and listening to their music all our lives and we almost aspire to be like, you go to America you’ve got an American SIM card. “Oh where’s Hattie? Oh, she’s in America, you know? What’s her number? Plus one? Oh, she’s made it.” Like, oh she’s out! You get me? We all, English people, we almost — let’s not lie. It’s like the American dream ain’t for men. We are here and the moment I realize, yeah I just walk with an integrity that’s just like untouchable.

Hattie Collins

So it’s time to create the British dream. Or you are now creating the British dream.

Skepta

I like that.

Hattie Collins

I just thought that on the spot.

Skepta

I like that, yeah, yeah.

Hattie Collins

Thanks.

Skepta

We need to make the British dream. I hope I stay alive long enough for people to see me do it, because I’m going to do it. The team I’ve got around me now, I’ve surrounded myself with people that are so fucking legendary. I couldn’t ask for a better team because it’s like, before I’d be with people that are trying to earn 20% off me. So when everybody that’s giving you advice is trying to earn their 20% off you, you’re walking in a money direction. But now, I’m with people that just want to do this thing, really want to put this whole sound and style on the map. So I’ll be like, yo I want to do this, there’s no umm-ing and aw-ing. Men are like, “Yeah, we’re going to make this work.” It’s not, “Aw, man, Skep, I don’t think...” No. I want this to happen and it’s going to happen. That’s how I’m moving now. It might come across as fucking chauvinistic or whatever but I’m doing me with my team and all my team’s doing them as well and we’re going to bust down the door and make this British dream solidified.

Hattie Collins

That is a little round of applause maybe? [applause] I feel like, yeah. Well you just said the word chauvinistic but you actually have women on your team so you’re not, I don’t think your chauvinistic. But also the thing that’s important to point out, as long as I’ve known you over the years, is that it’s always the same people around you. Which I really, really like. Whenever I see you, Shorty’s there, Maximum is there, Aaron’s there, it’s all the same faces. Of course new members come in and out but it feels to me that you’ve created a, I don’t know, loyalty is quite important to you, like a sense of family around you? I don’t know if that’s right but...

Skepta

Yeah. Family.

Hattie Collins

Yeah.

Skepta

Yeah, just people that I can trust, you get what I’m saying? I don’t like people that like are for the industry system. I could meet someone and I’ll be like trying to work them out or whatever. Like, a manager took me to dinner to meet our press guy and I wasn’t talking to him for the whole dinner. I was looking at him from under the brim of my hat, thinking like, what are you doing here? What are you doing here? I’ll just be meeting people and I’ll be fully checking them out like, what is your motive? You get what I’m saying? Because I just want it to be a family, man. I believe that everything is perception. All these record labels are what they are because of what we know about them. The accolades they have, they have accolades that we gave them. So it might take time but I know at one stage, whatever we make, whatever brand that we push is going to become same level as everything, as long as we believe in it as as much as they believe in their one, you know? The whole family understanding that is the most important thing to me.

Sometimes I’ll be like at home, I’ll just be pacing the house, like shouting shit, like, “Man, we going to do this thing!” Like, oh fucking hell, Skepta’s going off again. But I don’t care. I don’t care, I’ll talk until my mouth is dry. I remember a time when I didn’t believe, man. It’s a bad place. It’s like, it’s a fucked up place, man, and I want all my brethren to have the confidence I have now. I want them to think like me. I want them to fucking like walk around and be themselves, because when you are yourself it is the most fucking unique piece of art ever. Bro, you’re born fucking sick. You’re born, like, this is fucking sick. You get me? I want all my brethren to understand that. We as a people, we are sick. We’ve done something in the past, I don’t know how many years it has been, like we’ve done some serious things. It’s easy for this country to play it down. Like, “Nah, you didn’t chart, so that was wack. Nah, that was on a playlist so that was wack.”

We judge our success of different things now. We set goals, we say we want to do that, how are we going to get there? Let’s go towards that. Anything that pops in on the side, yeah thanks bro, respect. But not now, because we’re going here. You know, we are going right there, we get the gold done, we go and check if my men still on this thing, he’s not on it? All right, Respect, we’re going to go to the next thing. And believing. Believing. Making your thoughts materialize, making them come to life. I think stuff, I say bare stuff that’s happened, you can ask my team. Bare stuff that’s happened, I said that it’s going to happen and I said that people are going to think this way about it. That’s how we planned it, we knew that some people were going to diss, some people were going to say nah, Skeptorr’s not right or he’s doing this. You have to understand that to be an individual, not everyone’s going to agree with you. Those are not the people that we’re listening to. When we’re doing our thing and we’re believing in ourselves, we’re listening to who and we’re listening to people that are like-minded and we’re going to keep going and going and going and going and that’s it.

Hattie Collins

So this time last year, roughly, say like a year ago what were your goals and have you fulfilled them?

Skepta

Ah, I can’t tell you that! I can’t tell you that but we’ve definitely fulfilled them. Like, everything that’s happened in the past couple years.

Hattie Collins

Maybe just one goal, is there one of them you could say?

Skepta

We said we were going to play Fader at South By.

Hattie Collins

That happened?

Skepta

Yeah. We said we were going to play South by Southwest. I told my team, “This is what we have to do. We’re going to make music and go towards that direction.” And we did it.

Hattie Collins

Alright, I’m not going to push your other ones.

Skepta

Yeah, please don’t.

Hattie Collins

I won’t. But I need to talk about Kanye a little bit more because obviously that’s a point of interest. Just tell me the process from like hanging out in New York and meeting Ratking and Ian Connor, and A$AP Bari and all those guys, through to Kanye at the Brits. How did that actually happen? Because I think that a lot of people would watch that and go — I don’t think I would encourage anybody to try and replicate what you’ve done. It’s pointless — like you just said, everyone be individual. Do your own thing. But how, practically, can people look at something like what you’ve done and be inspired? Like how did it actually physically happen?

Skepta

Well, it started with the music. You have to have a talent of your own. I’m sure anybody could wind their way around these people somehow, but then when you get there what are you going to do? Just take photos and selfies? I don’t care about all that. I’m trying to meet these guys to show them the talent. Kanye don’t know what phone I got. He don’t know if I got a Nokia, Samsung, iPhone. I’ve never taken my phone out when I’ve been next to him. I go in the studio, open my laptop, I’m on things. He’s seen how I move. I don’t care about all that. I’m not here and trying to be in the outside world. If I’m here, I’m here. That’s how I move around all them guys and they’ve seen it. It started from Blacklisted when I made “Ace Hood Flow,” see that was me saying, “I've been keeping my ear to the streets / The UK run out of ideas / Everybody doing covers of American beats.” That’s what I thought the state of the game was. I was like, this is bullshit, man. This is shit. Making covers of everyone else. Even though I was doing covers, I’ll do covers before or whatever, but I still had my own music.

Some rappers’ whole careers are like freestyles and other peoples’ beats or whatever. So I was like cool, I said that, bits and pieces kept it moving, kept it moving, and then Virgil [Abloh} tweeted about us.

Hattie Collins

Just to say, so Virgil is Kanye’s creative director? Is that right?

Skepta

Yeah, he tweeted about us or whatever. I remember everybody was saying ah whatever man, try and jump on grime now or whatever. Trying to be fucking get on it or whatever. He posted like a blog that he did years ago of when he was speaking about JME like, how innovative he was to make t-shirts with his crew name and sew them and like how sick that is because now everybody does that. JME was mad early on them waves, so he was talking about that. Time went by. Little Ian came to London and people was talking to him, talking about me. Then we linked up. I remember when we linked up, we just linked up. We didn’t have no plan to do anything. We just chilling, we was going to a couple parties. We was just chilling for ages, man. We just watched different freestyles and I was saying to him, “Yo, I feel like we can bridge the gap between New York and London. Not as a musical wave but like as people.” People always try and like collaborate and think, you see people on twitter like, yeah this is it, it’s done. But music, if it’s not on the street in real life it doesn’t mean anything. I think that is the main thing we try to do is, when I was going to New York I’m not trying to go to no fancy places with rappers to try and pop bottles and shit like that.

Go to go and link this guy or whatever. I’m the same everybody’s here whatever, where do you need to go? You going to link my man? Yeah go and do that. So when I went to New York I was going to Know Wave Radio and it was weird because I was listening to Ratking. What’s that song he says, “Piece of Shit”? Yeah, I used to listen to “Piece of Shit” all the time and I went to Know Wave and I saw Wiki in the radio station and he was like, Yo Skepta! And I was like, Wiki! He was like, “I’m a big fan,” and I was like, “Bruv, I’m a big fan of you as well.” Then we started freestyling, did a couple of freestyles. They came here and we did a Just Jam together, we did a Just Jam, Ratking, and then I put Wiki on the remix of “That’s Not Me” and then I think from then people was like... I noticed when I was going to America, people was like understanding me. They like get the whole vision. Then Ian introduced me to Bari. This might not go chronologically. He introduced me to Bari. I went to his house and this guy comes down and lets me upstairs. He’s chilling there and he’s like, yo, you hungry? I was like, yeah. Then he went and made me like a bowl of mashed potato, yeah. [laughter] A bowl of mashed potato with some hot sauce on it, yeah. And a glass of lemonade, yeah. This guy handed me this and I looked at him, and I was like, “Blud, you’re a fucking legend, you know.” That’s some real G shit, like he’s never met me before. And then he tried to put a bit of broccoli to spice up or like... You get me? That’s what I would do. I’m trying to eat from anything on the side, blud, like falafel or hummus. Like man is giving me mashed potato, hot sauce and fucking lemonade. I was like, “This guy is a badman.” I’m never going to forget that. From then, me and him clicked.

Then I came back... I went back to New York. We said, “Oh, let’s go to Atlanta. Let’s fucking go to Atlanta and just like, just fuck about. Let’s make a song as well to drive there to.” And we made “It Ain’t Safe” to drive to Atlanta. We didn’t even end up driving to Atlanta, but like we made —

Hattie Collins

From New York? To drive to Atlanta is quite long.

Skepta

No?

Hattie Collins

Is that 12 hours? How long? It’s far.

Skepta

I don’t know how far it was, but we was making a tune to drive there. I don’t know when we was going to stop off and catch things, but yeah... We made “It Ain’t Safe” to drive to Atlanta. I came back, I came home and I see couple of these bredrins. They was putting on Vine. “Ain’t safe, ain’t safe, ain’t safe.” The song started to get big. Then I said, you know what fuck this man, you gotta come London. You gotta come London. We gotta do a party. We gotta do the video and shit. He came over. We did that. And then, that was the fucking, still is a mad thing. “It Ain’t Safe.”

Sometimes I’ll think about that tune. It’s bigger than me. It was the real bridge between like New York and London. Especially because everyone was like, “Aw yeah Skept, go and do the video to ‘It Ain’t Safe’ in New York.” I’m like, “Nah, that’s what every English rapper would want to do innit?” I was like, “Naw, I’m bringing Young Lord to my block, Meridian Walk, and making him where a track suit.” And he had the man bag on. His swag was crazy in it. And all bredrins in New York. They be watchin’ it and be like, “Yo, like, where is that? Why is there niggas out there like? Where the fuck were you?” “Yo I’m in London bro, I’m with Skepta. Yeah I’m with Skepta. The Goons.”

It’s sick when they, ‘cos see they’ll be trying to talk like me, you get what I’m saying? Because of how like I carry myself. You get what I’m saying? It’s like, from there the rest of the story — that whole Drake, Kanye story — that happened. And then yeah, we’re here now. That’s it.

Hattie Collins

It feels like part of what has attracted people, not just these Americans, but part of your success over the last year, is that you have gone back to basics. You dug up that old Korg keyboard that Jammer made I think “Destruction VIP” on, so it was a keyboard that Skepta thought about. He’d remembered from back in the day and he made Jammer go and track it down. I can probably let you tell that story. But that was what “That’s Not Me” was made on.

You returned to the grime sound but also your fashion has also returned very much to that. Your videos. The whole aesthetic has gone back to basics. How important do you think that is, and why did you do that? Why did you make that choice?

Skepta

I wouldn’t say back. I didn’t go back. I just, yeah, I went forward. I went forward. I just feel like the world is really fuckin’ real now, man. You can’t fake it. You can’t fake shit no more. I was saying this earlier, I did a video with So Alive back in the day and at the end of the video, I jumped off the fuckin’ roof. Man can’t jump off of no roof now in no video. Man will say, “Where you goin’ you dickhead about your jumping? Man know you’re not dead bro. You just come to the show. You just done a show.” You get me?

It’s like, them can’t just, that’s banter, but just on that wave, people ain’t stupid no more. Exactly what I said about email music. You hear a song and you know these two guys ain’t fucking with each other man, like come on. Forget that song bruv, you’re wasting time.

I just wanted to get real, man. I wanted to be me. I feel like a lot of rappers, like to go to rap, to go to music, they’ve got to do this thing. They’ve got to like ‘sup themselves up to rap. I never wanted to be that. I just want to be Skepta. Just me. Whenever I’m making videos, or I’m making music or whatever, I just really try and make it as me as possible. Because I’ve got to perform this stuff on stage, man. It’s one of the shittest feelings when you’re on stage doing a tune that you don’t like. You don’t even fuck with this tune no more. It’s bullshit. You get what I’m saying? That feeling is not nice. So, I just made a point from Blacklisted and I did “Straight Up.” I did the “Straight Up” remix in between there somewhere as well. That was before “That’s Not Me.”

I don’t know. How can I say it, it’s every day it gets more advanced, this idea. I’m freestylin’ it, but the basis is “Stay fuckin’ true as possible.” Then loads of things keep coming out. Somehow I end up in Sports Direct, because I want to be true as possible. You get what I’m saying?

Somehow I make the “That’s Not Me” video because I want to be as true as possible. This is the basis. You get what I’m saying? All beautiful things are going to be happen, that have happened out of that, but that is the ethos.

Hattie Collins

‘Cos you’re reflecting really what’s going on in the world I feel like. Who needs to hear about how much money someone’s got, how many women they’ve banged, how wonderful life is. Life is a bit hard at the moment. Obviously everyone wants to party and have fun and let loose, which you can do to those tracks, but I guess, like I said, yeah, you’re not going back, that was not the right way to put it. You’re going forward but you’re reflecting very much the mood and the atmosphere of the times.

Skepta

The realness. The realness of today. The world is very real. You could just go on the internet and curate your whole lifestyle from the net. If you want to know about what food you’re eating, you can go and check it out now. If you want to dress a certain way, you can go on the internet and you can find all the right things and places to shop. You can do “you” now, and that’s why everyone’s really...

It’s kinda weird because on the flip side everyone’s become really like — you get what I’m saying? Recluse. On my own. I’m good with my iPhone or my Samsung or my Twitter or my Instagram. But it’s just the individuality that’s happening now is sick man. I love it. How people are just themselves now. It’s not fake anymore. You’re just straight. Yourself. Being everything that makes you different to the next person is somehow turned out to be good now.

Hattie Collins

Yeah.

Skepta

You get what I’m saying?

Hattie Collins

Everyone used to want to blend in and not stand out.

Skepta

Like, guys really want to be different now. Everybody. They’re like “Yeah, of course I’ve got three big toes.” You get what I’m sayin’? That’s man! You get what I’m saying? They’ll be like, “Yo, come on, three-toed gang!” Man are promoting the weirdest shit because they know, “Woah, this is what makes me, me. I’m the most unique creation on the planet.” You get what I’m saying? That’s the ethos man, really.

Hattie Collins

Have you got three toes? Three big toes?

Skepta

No.

Hattie Collins

OK, just checking.

What do you think then about grime in 2015? I wrote a piece about a year and a half ago where I got so slewed for, but I felt like I was right. OK, like you said earlier, I followed grime for a long time. Since 2003, whatever. Been a big fan And after around, I’d say 2010-2013/14 I just wasn’t hearing anything that I liked. I don’t think that grime died at all. I don’t say that. I know that grime was still happening, I know it was still being made, people were still doing tunes. But from 2014 this new energy came through. This new excitement. There was hits again. There must be a reason why the media is now looking at grime.

Skepta

Yeah. They’re lookin’ at it because the people that are making it are not caring again. That’s why they have to look at it. They can’t ignore it. What you gonna do? Are you going to play like we don’t exist? We’re killin’ it. Worldwide. They can see what’s happening. That’s why they have to do it.

I feel like at one stage when Giggs came out, they was like everyone wanted to be a road rapper for a second. You get what I’m saying? I think like he really changed the mood of UK. His entry into the game was like fucking unforgettable man. That was a barrage. That was like, every... It was a lifestyle. Putting out mixtapes with raps on it and shit like that. You get what I’m saying? He switched it up a little bit and it kind of went different. But the thing I like about Giggs is like, some people call him a grime artist.

Hattie Collins

Giggs?

Skepta

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

Okay. Like what?

Skepta

Like I’ve seen on my Twitter. Someone will say, “My top three grime MCs are Skepta, Giggs and Dizzee Rascal,” or something like that. Because the way he moves, he’s like a UK MC. You know what I’m saying? Whether he calls himself a rapper or not, he was one of the guys who blurred the line. You get what I’m saying? He would jump on a tune with JME, then he’s on a tune with Skepta, then he’s on a tune with another rapper or whatever. I think he played a good part in it and it changed.

You know now everyone, this isn’t to do with the music. This is gonna sound fucked up, but I don’t really think that... The music’s not coming back. When I’m in America, everyone is not rolling around playing grime. They might play someone’s tune. They’ll play, like, Dizzie Rascal “I Luv U.” They like that song. You get what I’m saying? They like Novelist, “1 Sec.” They like specific songs, but what I think’s happened is life. This is what people need to remember. It’s life before music. The music is a product of the environment. It’s a product of the lifestyle. You get what I’m saying? ‘Cos life got really real, grime came back. You get what I’m saying? You started to hear grime again because life got really real. Guys are really making what they want to make again.

I don’t think it’s going to be a whole surge of grime blowing and shit like that. It’s going to be whoever has got the correct mindset. It’s gonna be whoever’s ready to get real, ready to stop the fucking faking and say, “Yo, fam, we got to do this thing. We got to do this thing. If I need you to do this thing, please, we know where we’re all going. Let’s make this work. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah.” Then you go. That’s all it is. It’s not the music getting big, it’s just certain people that are getting really real in life because of it’s getting really real times now. They’re just gonna go. It’s going to be like designers from London. It’s gonna be maybe a couple radio presenters are gonna go worldwide. A couple rappers are gonna go worldwide. A few MCs are gonna go worldwide. A couple of producers are gonna go worldwide. But it’s not going to be like the scene. Everyone’s like “Oh yes! It’s the scene’s time!” No bro, because you still re-tweet your whole timeline because one rapper fucking said something to you. It’s embarrassing! It’s embarrassing, man. That stuff there is sick. Oh mate!

Hattie Collins

You never do. I’ve never seen you comment on people like Drake.

Skepta

I used to. I don’t want to be up here doing some self-righteous shit. I used to, but I was lost, bro. I was in a place where I grew up in London. I was aspiring to America and shit like that. You’re working with the wrong energies, you get what I’m saying? Ever since I stopped that whole style of moving, I just started to prosper. People could see. People say, “Oh, Skepta’s back in the scene now,” and that is what I didn’t do. The main objective was to take myself out of the scene. It might look to other people that “Skepta’s come back to the scene.” No. I removed myself completely from all those guys that are fucking re-tweeting up their whole fucking timeline, posting their Instagram because someone tweeted them. Someone tweeted them, “Oh yeah, I like your music bro.” Have some fucking respect for yourself, man. You know? Just respect yourself man and move properly.

Hattie Collins

Just to rewind a little bit, I think you were around three or four years old when you moved to Tottenham. Did you have any sense, because I feel like Tottenham’s a part of who you are and what you’ve become, did you feel any sense of difference. Like, “Oh, I’m in a different area.” Were you too young to notice that?

Skepta

Yeah, no I was too young. I was way too young to notice the move. When I moved to Tottenham, that house was my first memories of family gatherings and smoke outs, drink outs. In the back garden, speakers, dancing. Tired. Five in the morning, auntie’s tired. So tired and they’re still going for it. Fuck it. They’re still just dancing in a circle going mad. I remember looking there thinking, shit man, I want all my friends around my house one day dancing to my music.

Hattie Collins

How important a dancer or reggae artist not to just grind but to yourself. Because we went to Jamaica last year with Red Bull and we had an amazing six days exploring dancehall cultures and soundclash culture and one of the conversations that came up at that time is that you were saying, “This is like grime.” You could see the connection so clearly when you were there. Is that right?

Skepta

Yeah, I think grime is heavily influenced by dancehall. Just that approach to the music. We want a reload. I need to get a reload. That’s what it’s like. When you watch Sting and all their shows, that’s what they’re MCing for. They’re MCing for the reload.

Hattie Collins

Does that still exist as much in grime, the reload? That was such a massive part of the 2003 to the 2008 era, let’s say. Is that something that exists today?

Skepta

Yeah, I would say it is. Every show I go to, I’m trying to get a reload.

Hattie Collins

When you wrote, “Ring, ring, pussy / Your mom is on the phone.” So sorry if my mom just is watching that. Bars like that, are you like, this going to get a reload?

Skepta

No, I write the song to match up the dance. Not for the reload. I want all my lyrics when someone’s in a rave to be going fucking nuts from beginning to end. But then when I’m performing it, I want the reload. You know what I’m saying? I don’t make the song for the reload because you’d hear me going crazy on a tune. I just say my lyrics normal, just murking, doing bits and pieces and just try and make people have fun. But when I’m live on the stage, that’s when I’m really trying to... If not a reload, encore. Mad crowd cheers, like football stadium ones.

Hattie Collins

What’s your biggest reload at the moment?

Skepta

I got bear.

Hattie Collins

All right, calm down.

Skepta

I have...

Hattie Collins

I’m joking, go on. Give us a couple.

Skepta

No, no, no.

Hattie Collins

But are the older ones still as vibrant as the new ones?

Skepta

Yeah. Lyrics are like wine, man. The longer that you have them, over time, they just get more legendary, you get me? All these tunes that are made now, they get good responses but they’re not bigger than my old bars.

Hattie Collins

Like?

Skepta

Now you’re trying it. See just what I’m saying, man.

Hattie Collins

I’m not trying to get you to perform, just tell me one or two lines...

Skepta

All of them.

Hattie Collins

Go on then.

Skepta

Yeah, everything, everything. Because I’m from the golden era and all my bars are on bare tape backs and YouYube videos and shit. People who are coming to rave now when they’re 21 are listening to the lyrics from when they were 11. So, to them, they couldn’t wait to get into the rave. I see some of these kids at the front of the fucking shows going crazy. Like so nuts. And I have to remind myself, yo, this is probably the first time this guy’s come to a rave before. It’s like, every year, I’ll go and I’ll see a new lease of life, like a new energy in the shows, see what I’m saying? I’ll be like, aw yeah, I get it. You’re all out of school now. You know what I’m saying?

Hattie Collins

If you were, for example, on Eskimo Dance and you had your dream lineup of MCs on, what would be the one bar that you would want to hear from the one artist that would just make you go crazy?

Skepta

It’s going to have to be D Double E.

Hattie Collins

I knew you were going to say D Double.

Skepta

D Double E is the greatest of all time. Can we all agree with that? [audience goes, “yeah!”]

Skepta

That wasn’t a big yeah, but D Double E’s the greatest grime MC of all time.

Hattie Collins

I think he’s an MC’s MC. Whenever you interview any MC, they always say D Double.

Skepta

No, D Double.

Skepta

Yeah, everybody. Even when I’m in America and all that. He’s like Young Thug. They can’t understand what he’s saying. It’s true. And that’s another thing I’ve learned as well. Americans always try and play that around the world, they’ll always try and play that. “No, man, I can’t really get what he’s saying.” But if they can feel you, they don’t need to understand what you’re saying. When men see me MC, they know that I’m talking from a mad place, you know what I’m saying? With D Double E, he talks from a place of a fucking MC. He’s an MC on jungle, on whatever speed it is. He is... D Double E is the greatest of all time, I don’t even want to debate it. And what lyric would I want to hear of his? Geez, I don’t know because we be watching D Double E freestyles every day in the yard. Just keep watching D Double freestyles because all his freestyles are just sick. Uh, “Very Original.” No, you’re talking about in a rave here?

Hattie Collins

Yeah, in a rave. “Head get mangled”?

Skepta

Yeah, that’s the one, “head get mangled.” “Head get mangled.” That is probably top five grime lyrics of all time.

Hattie Collins

Top five?

Skepta

Yeah. “Head get mangled” is top five grime lyrics of all time. But see, people like D Double, they’re going to — touch words. Long life. But when he passes away, that’s when men are going to start praising him. You can’t ever expect people to speak about another human being in a great way while they’re here, because they don’t that person to hear them talk about them like that. To big-up their head and get them gassed, you know what I’m saying? But when my man’s gone to the next life, trust me, he’s done mental things for the UK.

Hattie Collins

We’ve listened to Snoop, that was the person that set you on the path. You didn’t quite know how it was going to turn out but you knew that this was something that you wanted to do. You had a vague vision. Tell us about Wookie, “Back Up to Me,” how that track has inspired you and...

Skepta

Man, that tune was sick, man. I remember, is it DJ Zinc did a remix of that, innit? And I went to Warehouse. Where is Warehouse again? Yeah I went to Warehouse because someone said DJ Zinc was playing there. I was like, what? Them days to me, them big names, I never ever thought I would see them. I was a youth man, you get me? I’ve gone to Warehouse, I see Zinc in the DJ box. Yo, that was like seeing Jesus himself. It was fucked, bro. I remember going to — I was at the front of the decks for the whole time he was on looking up at the decks saying, Yo. Every tune, even if I didn’t know it, I was playing like I knew it. I was going crazy at the front. I was like, “Yo, play the remix, play the remix!” He dropped it, I went fucking nuts. I went crazy and the next day I said, yo, I need to buy this tune.

I went to Scream Records in Southgate. Them days there, you have to sing the tune to the man in it. I got to, I need to try it, I need to know what man’s singing here. But they’re trying, they don’t know what man’s singing. Then he said that they didn’t have any, that they didn’t have it. Then I went home. I can’t remember who I was speaking to, someone from Extreme or Famine. He was like, don’t worry, Extreme and Scream. They were close. “Don’t worry, I’m going to ask them for you,” and he got it for me. I just never stopped playing it. I never stopped playing it and I think just the same way as the Snoop album was the point where I was like, I’m going to make music. I’m going to make music and I’m going to make sick shit. This song was when I really fell in love with DJing. That whole garage sound, that’s when I fell in love with it. That’s when I was like, yeah, I’m going to be a DJ and I’m going to do this thing.

Hattie Collins

So, we’re in Meridian Walk in Tottenham. You’re about, what, 16ish? And you have designs to be a DJ. How did you do that? How did you set yourself up as a DJ? I want the whole story.

Skepta

Aw, man. Fuck. I should just do... Yo, I wanted this thing, you know. Sometimes I sit and I think, it’s impossible for me not to be me because I wanted this too bad. I was hungry for this thing. So basically, we broke into a sports hall, yeah, near where I lived, yeah, and we set up some decks in there and I drew these fliers. I drew these fliers. I think it was like four of them on each A four. I just wish I took a picture of it because it was the most tired flier every from...

Hattie Collins

Was it hand drawn?

Skepta

Yeah, hand drawn. Like I tried to draw a fucking. Aw man, shit.

Hattie Collins

What did it say? Party? Rave?

Skepta

So we sent a rave, DJ. I was DJ Machino Joe at the time.

Hattie Collins

Of course. Long live with Machino Joe.

Skepta

Yeah, DJ Machino Joe. Fuck it now. DJ Machino Joe. Yeah and then a couple of other guys from the ends I put them on the flier. I remember going to school telling all the girls, yo, my rave’s going to be so hot. Make sure you come. This is going to be the sickest shit you ever go to. And then we were setting up. Bearing in mind, we did this own little mix ourselves in this sports hall two days. So two consecutive days before, we had two nice little gatherings. On the day of our actual rave, the fucking people from the center, they came and locked it off, man. I remember I was going to cry, man. I was so upset. I told all the girls. They thought I was the fucking man. They were like, “Yo, Joseph is the man!” Because in school I wasn’t cool. My clothes were so wack. Everything. I was just a tall, big eared guy. You get what I’m saying, just a bear lanky, not cool.

So, this was my cool. This was the one thing that I could say, yeah, all the girls are going to think that I’m the man for this, you get me? And they locked it off. They locked off my party and I ended up doing it in my front room, my living room at my house. I moved it. I was like, yo everyone, we’re going to my house and I set up. My mom and dad, they were for it. They understood what I was trying to do. They let me use the downstairs. I remember that day just getting so drunk and then I missed the second half of the party because I was wasted.

Hattie Collins

Your mom and dad are very supportive then, obviously. There’s not just one performer in your family, there’s two. There’s, of course, your brother JME. Tell me a little bit about the dynamic between you two growing up. Did you ever used to hate each other when you were kids? Or was it always that you got on well? Was there competitiveness between the two of you? How did you develop as brothers and then as musicians on top of that?

Skepta

I think because me and JME are brothers, it would be really easy for us to just do bare tunes together and just murk and just carry on just doing songs together. I don’t think we consciously did it but we just never make tunes together. We never really wanted to be like those brothers that just because you’re brothers, just make songs. So, the competitive side is there but at the same time, we support each other. And we’ve got it in a way that whenever we do collaborate on a tune together, it’s a mad thing. So, we saved the collab for “That’s Not Me.” That charted and going back to my mom and telling my mom that, that’s sick. Me and my brother have done a tune and it’s gone on the charts, mom. She feels good about that. And I always want it to be that. I don’t want to overplay the fact that he’s my brother because he’s his own person as well. We’re very different in ourselves. So, for us to collaborate and do a song together, just like what I was talking about earlier, somewhere in our lives we need to be chilling together and maybe be talking about the same thing and then we can do a song together. You know what I’m saying? Rather than, “Oh I got this tune I’ll go do this.” Then we never really make tunes like that.

Hattie Collins

It’s really interesting as well how very different you are as MCs. You’re completely different. What do you think are the things that have influenced you differently to be the people that you are? What is it that has made JME, JME and Skepta, Skepta?

Skepta

I’m the oldest. So I think that’s a start. We’re both nerdy people. We’re both, like, I can’t explain it. But we’re both very nerdy in our ways. But I feel like living in Tottenham made me have to be a certain way. I was the oldest and I knew that we were going to have to be around in the ’hood so I always played a role where I’m protecting JME. No one ain’t trying to JME. Touch him, it’s fucking on. And I’ve always been like that for him. So, even though he hates that; he will get into something outside and he won’t come home and tell me.

Skepta

You know he hates that. He will get into something outside and he won’t come home and tell He’ll tell me six, Oh remember that time, yeah? Oh yeah I saw them on the road, you know? I’ll be like, “What?!” Yeah man, no man they just looked at man, some bigger thing and I just walked off. So that’s his way of dealing with it. To him, someone’s screwing him and walking off is nothing to him. Whereas if I saw someone do that to him, I’m going to want to do something to them. So, he’s always kept that away from me but at the same time, kept himself to himself.

I wouldn’t say I gave him the power to be him, but I cut that rude boy shot of his life for him to be able to be JME. But with me — and I think it’s affected me in a way, because over time, I’ve got like a stigma of some fuckin', like some street. I like being on my nerdy shit, but at the same time I understand where I’m from. I understand that I’m from Tottenham and if things go down, my position to play as a older brother. Those vibes of our lives came out in our music, and that’s why he MCs like he does and I MC like I do.

Hattie Collins

So, around like 2003 when grime came out, what would you and Jamie listen to? And all your friends, did you go to Sidewinder or did you listen to Deja Vu or Rinse? Did you go to Rhythm Division? How did you access grime? How did you find out about grime and how did you gravitate towards it as MCs? First as a producer of course, but...

Skepta

It was just school days, man. Listening to Heartless Crew and shit. On my school uniform in my blazer, I used to put my headphones through the sleeve and pretend I’m just working or whatever at class. I’d be listening to tunes, like returning to work. I was just addicted. I was just addicted. I went and I bought decks, the most tired decks ever. I just remember there was two different colors. Tired. One of them had a belt underneath it. It was mental work. Wark. But I made it work. I made it work. We used to make tapes and this that and this.

Then, Wiley heard of Jamie, somehow. I can’t remember what it was. He heard about Jamie and he told him, “Oh yeah, I’ve got studio in Bermondsey somewhere in south Jamaica road. Come to the studio.” I remember thinking, I ain’t letting my brother go south on his own. Fuck that. So I’ve gone with him. Gone to the studio. And we got into the studio. These times, I wasn’t MCing. I used to listen to grime a lot, but I used to DJ in it. Jamie was MC. I remember Tinchy Stryder was in there, all the Ruff Sqwad, Wiley, all these people was in there. I walked in. I’ve heard of all these people and seen them on telly, but I’ve never seen them in real life. Wiley was like, “Do you want to record something?” So I put my rap tune on. I was in there on some, “Yo get me MAC-10...” I remember finishing my bar and coming out the booth yet and looking at everyone. Everyone was like, “Pff.” Everyone was like, oh mate, this guy’s a bit too much. He’s a bit too grease. We wasn’t expecting this, you get me?

I got home that day and Wiley, he phoned me. He was like, yo, why don’t you spit some grime lyrics? I was like, “I can’t do grime, that’s not for me. I don’t like it.” I never used to like certain ways. Or just how people used to speak about grime MCs. That stigma. I remember I was with President T, we was in the trap. And I had just bought eight — this is a bit of a steep story. Can I say this?

Hattie Collins

No, don’t think so.

Skepta

No, I can’t say it.

Hattie Collins

No, you can. Yeah, you can say it.

Skepta

Okay, so I bought an eight-ball, yeah, of fuckin’ double-u.

Hattie Collins

I think you can.

Skepta

I wanted to chop it up, to bag it up, innit? So I was looking around for things in the kitchen and I saw a machete. I don’t know why, out of everything in the kitchen, I saw this machete. But I saw this machete and it was gleaming, and something happened to me. I was like, go on then, draw for the ‘chete. [laughter]

And I was like — wow!

Hattie Collins

That was your very, very first bar?

Skepta

I was like, “Rah, that sounds hard. “Go on then, draw for the ‘chete.” Then I started writing and writing and writing. I phoned Wiley and I said, “Yo, I’ve got lyric. I’m ready.” I had one 16-bar, blud. About your ready. Shut up. You ain’t ready, you got one 16-bar. But anyway, I thought I was ready. I was like, yeah, I’m ready. Went on the radio with Roll Deep. This time I’m going raider with some real legends. These guys have been murking raves, like Scratchy, get me? Flowdan. These guys have been murking raves for time. I’m going in with my one 16. But it’s cool. I got thrown into the deep end, innit? Every week, I used to go back to radio, it would give me the incentive to write more. I’d be like, Yo, I ain’t going back there with one 16. Then I wrote, “What you mean, you fool / Draw for the tool.”

I kept writing more and more and more. Then before you know it, we were just fully involved. That’s where way me and Jamie’s Roll Deep affiliation happened.

Hattie Collins

Then it began BBK?

Skepta

You know what? It’s so crazy because it’s probably one of the most important things in my career, but I don’t actually remember trying to make it. I don’t know how it just come about. Jamie was doing mixtapes at one stage with Boy Better Know on the front. Then Wiley wanted to release one, because he liked how Jamie was releasing mixtapes. He was like, “Yo, I want a Boy Better Know mixtape as well.” He made a Boy Better Know mixtape, or “Tunnel Vision” or whatever it was. Jamie did the artwork for it. It was just like, us three. Then everybody else, just being family, just came into it.

It happened really naturally, man. Before, we was Meridian before, innit? We was Meridian —

Hattie Collins

And Bloodline as well or is it —

Skepta

No. Bloodline’s like, that’s something that happened after. But Meridian, in the beginning of it, it was Meridian. Then a shooting happened in my estate and the police found one of the guys. He was writing lyrics about, “I’ll shoot this and do that and this.” They were like, “Rah, so you’re writing lyrics about this, yeah? Take all of Skepta’s records. There must be lyrics on the record about shootings and shit.” Maybe we were able to find out shit. They took all my records. I remember moving to some next house, we got evicted. Some bullshit, man. We got evicted, and I remember going back to my house and just sitting there, because they had gone to work. Mom and dad went to work and they came back to no house. Where the shooting happened, the police just boarded up my house. So my mom and dad and us in a fucking mad place. I remember going out thinking to myself, I’ve got to make something happen. I’ve got to make something happen.

Bossy, H, President T, them man there was still doing the road stuff. I used to talk to them about doing stuff, they would be like, “Whatever, whatever.” I was like, OK, cool. When boss man comes out of jail, let’s get this Meridian thing started again. So he came out of jail, and we went to Logan show. I think we did a Sidewinder tape, a Meridian Crew Sidewinder tape, it was fucking sick. I remember feeling like, wow. I used to say, “Right about now Bossman’s in jail, I'm gonna speak on Merrick’s behalf.” When he came out, I was like, I had another one, “Speaking on his behalf ain’t needed, never saw double-o five like he did.” Just to have him next to me again, after saying “free Bossman” all that time, having H there, Jamie there, that was like, “Yes, we’re back.”

Still, certain people in the crew got different agendas. Some people are really comfortable with being on the road. To me, this was my way out. I don’t want to be on the road. This was my way out. It kind of, through our agendas, we kind of drifted apart. Boy Better Know just kind of stuck. It just kind of stuck. Then they made Bloodline a bit later.

Hattie Collins

First of all, what is “lung sung ming sung ing sung”?

Skepta

I don’t know man. I just know that shit sounds fucking sick. I wanted to clash [Devilman]. At the time, I was murking so many men. I was fuckin', I did the end when I first came into the game. Then I was getting raves and murking beer man. Then Lord of the Mics was coming and I was like, who do you want to clash? You should clash Flirta D, man. I was like, yeah that would be fire.

But, why don’t we clash this guy in Birmingham? It’s going to spread it. It’s going to be able to be like, people from Birmingham are I going to get to have someone to support. It’s like football. Have this guy, I’m going to clash him.

I was writing my lyrics. I remember fucking getting prepared for a clash is mentally draining, man. I remember writing my bars. Everyday I’d be thinking about murking this guy. I’m have fucking dreams about murking this guy. I close my eyes, I’m murking this guy. I just want to murk this guy. And I got to the fucking clash, and the man’s first lyric is, “You look like you got AIDS!” [laughter]

I’m thinking, what angle do I come back? Somebody’s telling me I’ve got AIDS, bro. When you clash a man, you listen to what his style’s about. You be like, yeah if he says that, I’m going to counteract from this side. I ain’t got no counteraction for AIDS. I ain’t got the cure for this. I’m thinking like, yo, how am I going to do this? This is a bit weird.

I’d be a liar to say that wasn’t the hardest clash of my whole career. That clash there was like — because I wasn’t expecting none of it. He’s so unorthodox in how he spits. He comes at mad angles.

Hattie Collins

Who won?

Skepta

I won!

Hattie Collins

Just joking.

Skepta

My bars were harder than his. My bars were harder than his, yeah? But he didn’t repeat a lyric, and I did. That’s what I’ll always take from the clash — my actual bars were always spitting. They were better than his bars, because he comes at mad angles. He was calling me a Bangladeshian. That’s not... Why is everyone laughing? That’s my point. That’s my point. What just happened there is my point. That’s because of where we are in England, people would laugh at someone calling me a Bangladeshian. I don’t think that he beat me in lyrics. I beat him in lyrics. But I fucking wish I never repeated that bar. Because I’ll be able to walk around now, 100% saying I won.

Hattie Collins

What other things would you change? Are there points in your career that you don’t feel are necessarily mistakes but that you look back and think, “I’d like to erase that or alter that or change that,” because no one’s perfect?

Skepta

What would I change? I would just like to maybe believe in myself more. I can’t put a point on one bit, because even when I was doing stuff that I shouldn’t be doing, there was still good things happening. There was still good things happening out of that.

I would change the fact that in this country, we don’t fucking celebrate people. Anybody could do something in another country, the whole of my Twitter time, I’ll just lock my phone up. I can’t bother to see all this shit. They don’t want to talk about anything good that’s happening in this country. I feel like, because of that, I didn’t have as much self-belief as I should have. I should have believed in myself. I should have really known that what I was doing was game-changing and innovative. Know not anybody can just get up and do this. This is serious thing that I’m doing.

So I would just change the fact that I didn’t believe in myself as much as I should’ve. I should have really stuck by my thoughts and shit

Hattie Collins

Kanye and Drake. Can you tell us something funny, weird, unusual about the sessions that you’ve done with those guys? Just a little insight, a little glimpse, even if its a tiny little thing, just to sum up the experience with working with Kanye and Drake? Because you know, obviously, they’re pretty important people in culture right now.

Skepta

[long pause] I don’t know. Not that I won’t answer it. It was a good session. It was a good session. Kanye is somebody I’ve always admired as an artist. When I was there, having conversations with him. That was kind of sick. Me, telling him stuff, I’m like, yo, respect yourself for that. Believe in yourself for that. Don’t be so upset about that. A man taking in what I’m saying, and then he is telling me certain things, and I’m listening and I’m like, “Rah man, that’s true you know.” It was just a good exchange of energies. The guy is very stuck in his ways. He knows how he wants things. It was good for me to see that. It was good for me to see that and be like, yeah, if he can be at his level and still be like that, I’m going to fucking take this to the neck. I’m gonna finish off where this guy left off.

Hattie Collins

OK, last thing I want to ask you about is Konnichiwa. Because, I don’t know about anybody else, but I genuinely really want to hear it. I haven’t heard anything other than what everybody else has heard. We’ve all heard three tracks. Can you tell us anything about Konnichiwa in terms of who you’re working with? Who’s produced it? That just would be awesome.

Skepta

Yeah, JME’s on there. Young Lord’s on there. Dev Hynes is on there. Blood Orange. Novelist is on there. Yeah, I’ve just been in there late working. Yeah, whatever else happens, happens. It’s because, the way “That’s Not Me” and all these other songs got made, because it happened so naturally and organically. Now, I’ve got eight songs here. I want to put out a 12 track album. I don’t want to make the last four to make the album because to me that’s not the vibe of how I made it. I really want it to make itself as naturally as the songs were made. That’s the only reason I’m taking longer. I could put a time on it and do that, which I never will do again. I will never say a release date because that shit is mind troubling.

I just want it to naturally happen. At the moment, some people that I never ever thought I would be working with in life are working on it with me. I just need to really take my time and understand everybody telling me about my album is just everybody else’s reaction. That’s their lives when they wake up, when they feel they want my album, they’re going to tweet me that. I understand that. But at the same time, I understand what this album means to me. I just want it to be, like I said, every song that I’m performing on stage with this album, I need to beat my heart in it.

Hattie Collins

Yeah. I’d like to ask a couple of questions. Maybe while we do that, perhaps you can have a think about whether or not is there anything you can play us from the album? Do you think? Just a little tiny little snatch? Like a little teaser, a little taste?

Skepta

I don’t know about about that, man. I don’t even know about that.

Hattie Collins

Does anyone here want to hear it? Maybe no one cares.

Skepta

They’re going to say yeah. [cheering] That’s what you’re supposed to say. You’re supposed to say yeah.

Hattie Collins

Well, they’re not going to say no.

Skepta

Of course. They’re supposed to say yeah. I don’t know if I want to. I want to have a sick listening party for my album and shit. I’ll invite, I know who my supporters are and people that always tweet me and shit, you’ll be there. You know them ones. I don’t know about just playing a song for the sake of it.

Hattie Collins

Let’s get a couple of questions, and maybe you’ll change your mind, and maybe you won’t. We’ll get two questions before we finish up. Does anybody got a question? Have we got a microphone for? Someone just here? Is there a microphone?

Audience Member

Yeah, my question is, I think it’s probably quite difficult to be an independent artist at times. What helps you to get through the difficult times? What is it that keeps you going?

Skepta

Just learning to live within my means. Because I believe in myself so much. One day I could have the best day of my life financially. Other days I’m thinking, oh shit, man, this is bullshit. I need more money, or whatever. It’s just learning to live within your means. You’re never in trouble if you know how to manage your money. Just always living within your means and knowing that this is life is like you just got to maintain and be in a comfortable enough place to create. I don’t need to be in some massive studio. You can almost get it in your head, “Oh man, I want to make a song as big as them. I need to get to a big massive studio.” If you can’t get to that studio, you’ve got to work with what you’ve got.

That is something that my dad taught me, about working with what you’ve got. You just make shit happen. I see that a lot with the newer generation the way guys just do pop-ups. They can’t afford to rent out one of the cubicles at Box Park, so they’re just going to do a pop-up in the side of someone’s store and hope that people on Twitter see the tweet and come and buy shit. It’s a hustle. Anybody out there who independent complains about shit are just — they’re just shit at money management, I think. Just learn money management. Really learn to live within your means. Stretch that 10 pounds. You got what I’m saying? Learn to buy the noodles, if you only got a tenner, because you know that it needs to. Yeah, man, fuck it. Buy the noodles and know that’s what you’re going to eat until Saturday until you get your next peice, or whatever, and just work like that. As long as you’re comfortable enough to create. You just need to be comfortable enough to create. That’s it.

Hattie Collins

We’ll get another question. Just quickly while we’re looking for that person, why haven’t you signed yet, Skepta? I’m presuming you’ve had offers. Are you determined to stay independent? Can you see yourself signing in the future?

Skepta

Yeah, I want to sign, but it’s just got be the right deal. Like I said, I’m a big man now. I ain’t trying to be no fucking free album deal at my age. What am I going to do that for and just be in someone else’s regime? I want something where, what are we going to get here? There’s nice deals on the table right now. I can’t even front. I can’t even front! I ain’t gonna lie, but they’re sick. That’s the money that’s making them stamp.

Hattie Collins

There he is. [laughter]

Skepta

Yeah. I’ve been waiting for this moment. This whole last two years is all about positioning myself, putting myself in a place where man know Skepta is going to do this regardless. I don’t care who don’t like it. I swear I don’t care. I don’t give a shit. If you don’t like it, that’s your business. I’m going to carry on doing this and it’s going to get to a stage where people in the industry can’t ignore me because I’m going to be taking food off all of their plates. You get what I’m saying? Yeah, you turn around for a second, I will snatch that falafel from you. You get me? Big man thing.

And we’re going to keep doing it until the point like now, they’re like yo man, every radio DJ is coming back to Radio One and saying, “Yo, I’ve been in America and they’re playing Skepta. What are we playing now?” Someone’s coming from another country, Japan. Oh yeah, they fucking with Skepta in Japan. What are we playing? How many times are you going to go back to Radio One and everyone’s going to say, “Yo, they’re playing Skepta, bro. We’ve got to playlist something.”

Nah, they playlisted man, doing all stuff trying to support man and all that. I’m just like, “Thank you, you get me. Thank you.” At the same time, I know that I did this. Now that we’re here, the right deal not for me, not for Skepta. This ain’t even about me. I’m one of them people that this is more important, me sitting here talking to people about the struggles that I’ve been through is much more important than my music now today. I just make music because I can make music. But if this is all about making something, so all the new generation never, ever have to go through what we want through.

Because there’s no structures or things set in place for people to just do what they want. Jay-Z and them guys, they realized at one point that we need to make these record labels so that if we want to sign someone, we can do the right video. Labels in this country are trying to sign me and be like, yeah you know, look what we did for Olly Murs]]. [laughter] Come on, man. Come on Skepta. You get what I’m saying? So I come to you now and I sign to you. You’re trying to get me the same video guy that did Olly Murs’ video. The same press people that did Olly Murs’ video, because that worked for Olly Murs, but that’s not my settings. You get what I’m saying? I’ve got different settings to him. It’s all about big businesses, and companies, and organizations like ourselves that understand the artist. So that when I see some young kid, I’m like, “Yo, I know what you need. You need to be driving down your block in the Mercedes G-Wagon, yeah, with the North Face thing, stand up there, flash out the chaps out the sunroof.”

You get what I’m saying? I know what’s going on. We just need more people at the top who know how to market and push out our shit. Because the more that things keep getting big and then we just keep going to their same modules. They don’t know what to do with us. They’re just killing artists daily. Killing sick artists that have got originality. You’re just making them some generic Jason Derulo rapper, bruv. That’s what we’re doing. We’re just setting up. The deal that we’re looking for is a proper deal so that when people come through, we say, “Look, fam, I ain’t trying to eat off no one. But take this, make this video, put that there, do the right shows, open up for him. You’re going to do that show. You’re going to support him.” It will be proper. That’s all I want to do now because this shit is not about me like that really.

Hattie Collins

I feel like that’s a good place to end it on a high.

Skepta

Yeah.

Hattie Collins

Thank you very much to Red Bull Music Academy. Thank you very very much to Skepta. [applause] Thanks for coming down.

Skepta

Thank you.

Hattie Collins

I’ll play.

Skepta

Yo, I just want to say it’s easy to look and be like, “Yeah, but you’re Skepta though.” You know what I’m saying? It’s going to get, you’re Skepta though. Everything I say is like, “Oh, yeah, but you’re Skepta.” I want everyone to know that one day, one stage, no one didn’t know of me. The only thing in my mind was I wanted to do something. You got what I’m saying? It all starts from that small idea. You want to do something, but you don’t know the people around you to make it work. You consider failure before you even tried. You know what I’m saying? Has anyone seen that 25 minute #UnderdogPsychosis video that I did online?

Couple of people. That is basically what I’m trying to say. Really, when you think of something, understand that if you can think it — most things anyway — if you can think it, you can make it materialized. As soon as it’s a thought in your head, get the right people around you. Don’t get no people who’s going to be like, umm, I don’t know, I’m not really. No, fuck off, bro. I don’t want to talk to you no more. You got what I’m saying? I don’t want to talk to you because you’re just trying shit. Align yourself with people that make shit work. You want it work. It has to work. If you ain’t got things to make it work on as a big scale as you would like it to, do it at a smaller scale and you build and you build and you build. Use your Twitters. Use your Instagram. Use all the social networks. Just promote your shit brother. Stay original. Be original. Be individual.

Because, I know in the ’hood there’s that sentence in it. “Man can’t wear them creps.” That’s how it starts. “Man can’t hold girls hands. Fuck them man there. Nah, you can’t wear your hat like that. Ah, no, you can join them girls.” And over years, it beats you into being exactly the same as everyone else. You just got a crew of people now that have beat their self into the stereotype and now you’re not yourself. You’re just thinking with everybody else. It happens in the scene as well. People want to be in the scene. Fuck the scene. The scene is something that I don’t know, made by 1Xtra or something. Whoever they playlist, we have to accept them in the game. Fuck the scene.

You as a person are an individual. Yeh? And promote your shit, believe in your shit. When you want to do something, set the goal and do not stop until you get there. Because, once you set one goal and you do it, you get powerful. I feel mad right now. I feel like anything I want to do, I’m going to do it. It’s scary almost. I feel like a bit...

Hattie Collins

Superman, or Batman, or something.

Skepta

No, I swear down. I be thinking of shit, thinking that can happen. My thoughts, I need to slow down. That’s why I need to smoke. [laughter] That’s a stupid excuse, innit? I need to slow my thoughts down because I almost become too productive in my mind faster than I can physically do. Once you reach one goal, you be like, yeah that felt good, and you’ll do the next one, do the next one, do the next one and you just become unstoppable. People will start talking about you like you’ve done something that they can’t do. It’s all about not being scared to be individual. At first, people are going to say, “You’re shit. You’ve fallen off.” Then they’re going to say, “You’re weird. You’re different. You’re hipster.” Then they’re going to go and say, “Nah, my man is on his own thing. He’s on his own thing. Trust me. I might not fuck with him, but he’s on a different thing.”

Then after that, the next step is, “My man is hard.” You need to be ready to go through those stages. Be prepared to go to rock bottom and start. Be individual. Stick to your thing and understand people are going to diss you. People are going to talk shit and not understand it, but that’s exactly what you want. You don’t want people to understand it. You want them to not know how the fuck you’re making this work, and you carry on, and you fucking be great. Everybody in this room, be great.

[applause]