Andrew Jervis
Since 1993, San Francisco-based Ubiquity and its sister labels Luv’n Haight and CuBop have been responsible for quality releases through a wide range of genres from old school jazz and funk to modern electronic music of virtually any style. One of the people responsible for this, as head of A&R for Ubiquity’s cutting repertoire, is London-native Andrew Jervis, who at a whim moved to the Bay Area 15 years ago and got involved in the Ubiquity empire since the day he got there. Sit down for some lessons in realism from an indie label veteran at the 2005 Red Bull Music Academy.
Hosted by BENJI B OK, Andrew, this is everyone. Everyone, this is Andrew Jervis. Please make him feel welcome. [applause] ANDREW JERVIS Hello. BENJI B Andrew’s come from Cali, right? He has come to talk to us about the trials, the tribulations and realities of running an independent record label in 2006 and beyond. ANDREW JERVIS We do hope. BENJI B So, if you could just start off and tell us a little about yourself, where you're based and where you’re from. ANDREW JERVIS I currently reside in Berkeley, just outside of San Francisco. I’ve been in the Bay Area for about 15 years now. And the reason why I'm sitting in this seat right now, I don’t know yet, it was one kind of big accident. I didn’t mean to be in the record business, I didn’t even mean to be in the Bay Area. Up until the age of 18 I was living in London, apart from that in other parts of England. And at a whim moved to San Francisco and everything kind of snowballed and here I am right now. One kind of big bizarre trip. One thing Benji and I talked earlier about is, I definitely don’t know everything, I’m constantly making mistakes and find out new things every day. But that’s just part of the fun running an independent label. BENJI B But how long have you been doing it? ANDREW JERVIS Literally, I guess you could say since the day I got here. I got off the plane, I went to my dorm room – I actually decided that I was going to finish my journalism degree at the University of San Francisco – and before I got on the plane I bought two records from Honest Jon’s records in London and they were on this label called Luv'N Haight and it had a phone number from San Francisco and I thought, “I must call those people when I get to San Francisco.” Took them in to my little box, which had about this many records [shows the width of a small record bag], sat in this really depressing dorm room, didn't know anybody. I realized I moved to San Francisco and I had no idea what it was about. I didn’t know where Haight Street was. I was moving there with my roommate from London who was going to show up in a couple of weeks time and I thought, “Well, I guess I should call these people.” I gave them a shout and said, “Hey, I like the two records that you put out.” And they said, “Well, we've got a record store, why don't you come down?” Went down to the record store with my little box of records and strangely we hit it off and the two people in the record store were Michael and Jody McFadin. They had this store called the Groove Merchant for about a year. Two weeks later they went on a buying trip across the States and they wanted someone to look after the store for them, so I was hired. BENJI B So, what was the store called? ANDREW JERVIS The store was called the Groove Merchant and it’s still there. We don’t own it anymore, though. BENJI B And that’s on Haight Street in California? ANDREW JERVIS It is. BENJI B OK, and at this stage their label wasn’t called Ubiquity, it was called what? ANDREW JERVIS Luv'N Haight Records, it was a reissue label. They were DJs, they were throwing parties and rare groove was the sound of the time. BENJI B What year are we talking here? ANDREW JERVIS I mean, they had been doing for a few years and I got there in 1990. BENJI B Right. ANDREW JERVIS The label was only two 12"s old, so it was maybe six months to a year old at the most. And the reason they started the label was they could not keep up with the demand. They were selling rare grooves to collectors, producers, kids from all around the world would come into the Groove Merchant to buy tunes. It was just impossible to keep mining stuff to the demand that was there. So we thought, “We're here in the States, the artists are here in the States, why don't we track them down and we can reissue their records?” BENJI B We’ll definitely touch on reissuing later, but then that label spawned a sister label, which has going on to be very successful called Ubiquity Records. ANDREW JERVIS This kid walked in the store – actually, I don’t know if he first came in or if he called Michael and Jody, but this guy from San Diego walked in and he had a demo, which was very much influenced by the music that we were reissuing, but kind of looking forward and his name happened to be Greyboy. Greyboy was sort of a party DJ in San Diego and we really liked his demo. And for probably less than two or three thousand dollars his album was completed and put out and on no marketing, no nothing, just happened to be in the right place at the right time, ended up selling more than 50, 70 thousand copies at this point. Had tracks licensed left right and center, was in major movies all over the place, so we started Ubiquity with a big bang. BENJI B So this was a pretty good business start. ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, it’s just been downhill since. [laughs] BENJI B And so you were doing Ubiquity Records for 15 years, it’s an independent record label. For those of us who in the room might not be complete familiar with the catalog, we’re going to play some music, but before you do, what’s the musical ethos of the label? What’s the musical vision that kind of links all the things that you do? ANDREW JERVIS I think we will get into the sound that we ended up to the sound that we have now later, but we basically have three labels: CuBop is the kind of smallest label. To be honest with you, it’s on the back at the moment, we do very few CuBop projects at the moment. It’s an Afro-Cuban and Latin jazz label. We have Luv'N Haight, the reissue label for old school soul, funk and jazz and we have Ubiquity, which is all kinds of electronic music, hip-hop, dance music, house, whatever you want to call it. And the idea behind the labels has always been if we like it, we put it out. BENJI B So if you could give us some examples of what artists you got out at the moment. ANDREW JERVIS We’ve had a great year with Platinum Pied Pipers. It’s a band originally from Detroit, I guess now residing in Brooklyn featuring Waajeed, who was part of the Slum Village crew back in the day, and kind of blurring the lines between soul, hip-hop and electronic music. His ethos, I guess, is somewhat typical of what we want to be doing. We still have Greyboy, still kickin’ around 15 years later. We have other Detroit artists like John Arnold and Jeremy Ellis and we definitely have a kind of West Coast bend to it with bands like Breakestra, people like that. BENJI B So, should we check out some music? Let’s hear some music, give us a spectrum, just maybe one or two pieces minimum. ANDREW JERVIS The first one that I wanted to give you a quick spin on, is this guy Darondo. Actually, he was a pimp back in the day and has recently been discovered. He now lives up in Northern California and the guy is super cool, he is a great character. He disappeared for a whole number of years because the life that he was living was a little bit fast. He was driving around the Bay Area in a white Rolls Royce with a “Darondo” license plate. I guess, having fun with people like Fillmore Slim and he hung out with Sly Stone and all these guys. And back in the day he recorded three 45s that are all brilliant and we’re going to reissue them. We actually found some unreleased music [by Darondo]. So this is an example of the kind of stuff that we do on the Luv'N Haight label. (music: Darondo – “Let My People Go”) So that’s Darondo and that’s coming out on the Luv'N Haight label next year sometime. BENJI B So Luv'N Haight is the kind of old school label? ANDREW JERVIS Got it, the reissue label. BENJI B And that’s the foundation for what you do now? ANDREW JERVIS I guess. I mean, originally it was the label that we started with and therefore, I guess one foot will always be in the past when one is moving forward. BENJI B And you’re still reissuing stuff when you think it might be of interest to diggers all around the world? ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, I mean with this stuff it’s amazing. You still are able to find new, old music. New things that people haven’t discovered, like Darondo was a sleeper. Three 45s on obscure Bay Area labels and I hadn't heard about him until two years ago. Spent some time getting to know him and here we are putting out his records. BENJI B Cool. So, let’s hear something on Ubiquity. ANDREW JERVIS Platinum Pied Pipers, we were just talking about them. This is Platinum Pied Pipers with Sa-Ra. (music: Platinum Pied Pipers feat. the Sa-Ra Creative Partners – “Deep Inside” / applause) That’s the Platinum Pied Pipers. BENJI B We are applauding to two groups that are very interesting to me. Certainly, as a DJ I’ve been very passionate about their music, Platinum Pied Pipers and Sa-Ra Creative Partners both at the cutting edge of soul music in 2005, certainly from my perspective anyway. They are really progressive and exciting artists. I mean, how does it work with the independent label thing getting hold of such people? At what point in their career do you have to grab ’em? ANDREW JERVIS I guess with both of those, we grabbed them at the beginning. Both of those projects and kind of got them where they are now. And I’m not saying that to boost my own ego, but it’s just the way it happens. A lot of the times the music that you like as a radio personality and a DJ, it filters up through you and then you will see other people playing it and getting behind it. And in a similar way that's what happens with labels. There will be labels that are putting stuff out like Platinum Pied Pipers and then you’ll see them doing remixes for Atlantic or whoever. And that’s just the way how this kind of thing works. BENJI B We’re definitely get into artist development and that side of the chat, but the main thing that I want to achieve today is really just breaking down everything simply from two perspectives. One, from a label perspective. You know, should anyone of us bring their own records out? You know, or indeed start an independent label? And also, from an artists perspective, what we should and shouldn’t do when approaching a label. What to watch out for and that kind of thing. I mean, what’s your position at Ubiquity, is it A&R? ANDREW JERVIS Officially, I’m vice president and head of A&R. You know, Ubiquity got seven or eight people working at it, so pack boxes... BENJI B So that’s the scale of your operation that we’re talking about, seven or eight people full-time? ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, you got it. BENJI B And how many records have you put out over the years? ANDREW JERVIS Probably something around 300 or so at this point, including albums, singles, whatever. BENJI B So, talk to us like we’re all starting from scratch. What does A&R stand for? ANDREW JERVIS Artist and repertoire. BENJI B And when you’re an A&R person, what do you do? ANDREW JERVIS I’m responsible really for the sound of the label. What kind of records are we putting out? What kind of artists are we going to sign? Where are we heading? What mistakes we’ve made musically in the past that we won’t make again... BENJI B So let us in into the brain of an A&R person when you’re looking assessing the musical landscape out there. You've seen there’s a little bit of heat on this, you like the sound of that. What are the factors that make you make that call and pick up the phone, chase down an artist? ANDREW JERVIS It really comes down to that whole thing we’ve heard about the ethos of the label. Do we like it? If something grabs me straight-away, there’s nothing going to stop me picking up the phone. Maybe I heard a track on your radio show, from some guy that sent you a demo. Maybe someone sent me a demo. I mean, really, it just starts from I heard this one track and I really liked it. If I don’t get off my ass and make a phone call or send an email or make some investigation, it’s not going to happen. And no one’s going to bite my hand off if I do call and they don’t want to be signed to Ubiquity, well whatever. BENJI B Do you think it’s a fair statement at this stage in the music industry to say that labels where people pick up the phone on the basis of how the music sounds as opposed to how much they think it might shift are kind of few and far between? ANDREW JERVIS Probably. I think we definitely operate in a completely different way from much larger labels. Just in the way that a lot of music that ends up coming out on Ubiquity happens somewhat organically. I mean, I don’t really have a “I must make up a super group” mentality. Although we do have some collaborations between artists that we think might work well together, it’s not generally how we operate. Somehow, the music filters through me, and whether it’s a 12" I heard or because someone sent me a demo or I went to see a band, it’s just the way it happens. But maybe we’re in the minority as independents. BENJI B I mean, I don’t think that anybody looking at a label like yours would be doubting the way it started, it’s obviously like-minded people wanting to put good music out and that's clear. But in the lifespan of 15 years there must come a point where you have to balance that with the reality of the commercial world. How do you strike that balance between needing to make money and surviving and just staying completely true to your ethics musically? ANDREW JERVIS Two things, and maybe we get to one of them in a bit, but first of all as an independent label, we don’t just put out records. We get to that in a little while. The other thing is, probably halfway through this process of getting here, we kind of realized that not every record we do will be a hit. And there is almost no point in working so hard that you cry at the end of the day because your local radio station didn’t want to play the new Greyboy single and it’s not going to happen. You have to be somewhat honest in your assessment on how these records are going to do. Obviously, we do pay some attention to who we’re going to sign. And even though I say, “We just put out the music that we like,” at some point, when there's absolutely no chance of anybody else liking the record, we’re not going to do it. But I think what we realized halfway along is that it’s OK to be a label that puts out records that are only going to sell a few thousand copies alongside records that are going to sell a lot more. It’s OK to have little niche records. Some of the stuff that we reissue on Luv'N Haight is so obscure. You know, last year we put out a Japanese jazz record that had just two tracks on it. Maybe a handful of people around the world knew about it. BENJI B What record are you talking about? ANDREW JERVIS It’s called Black Renaissance. BENJI B But the thing about Black Renaissance is that people in a certain niche of records buy things. You know, that was always a 350 pound record to buy. So you know that there’s a lot of people out there that can’t afford to spend 500 dollars or what it is on a record. But they want that record, so in a way that is a commercially motivated move as well. ANDREW JERVIS Definitely, but I heard you saying the word “niche.” If I was working at Sony or somewhere, and I was in the A&R department and I really want to reissue this record, and maybe we’re going to sell five thousand copies, I probably get my pink slip that same night. BENJI B So effectively you’re saying is being realistic about everything that you’re dealing with, all your marges from the word “go?” ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, sure. One of my jobs that I really like is tracking down these old artists and let them know that there are a group of people out there who are willing to pay stupid money for their record and ask them if they have a box in their garage. That’s just such a great honor to be able to do that. And someone like Harry Whitaker, who is the man behind the Black Renaissance record, that's still a huge record and people still love, it’s a source for much excitement on the dancefloor around the world and gets played in London on the radio. I mean, that’s news to these guys and maybe they haven’t thought about that record in about 20 years. So, that’s definite a fun part of the job. When you tell these guys, you also have to be honest with them. Their eyes might light up when you're talking about dollars and stuff, but you have to be realistic and tell, “Look, we might only sell maybe five thousand or seven thousand or ten thousand copies of your record because it’s quite a limited market.” It‘s just the way it goes. And as an independent label, if I can balance that with selling 30 thousand or 40 thousand of a Breakestra album or a Greyboy record or what have you, then great, we can all stay in business. BENJI B OK, so let’s bring it back to the modern context. This is my track that I just finished. [picks up a CD] No, this is my five-track demo. If I send this to, are you going to listen to it? Or is it going to end...? I mean, de-mystify the demo myth. What happens in your office? Is there a pile of CDs that you go through? Will you actually listen to the stuff that you haven’t already heard a rumor about or someone recommends you? ANDREW JERVIS Absolutely. Probably slower than when I would hear a show like Deviation. [chuckles] But no, if someone sends me a demo blank, just out of the blue, it goes in a box of demos for that week. I don’t want to go beyond two weeks because it would send me troubles because at the end of the week there’ll be this massive box in the corner looking at me that I know it’s just going to take up an entire day. I listen to everything that comes through the door. I don’t know if everyone else does, but I do listen to everything because there are things that can be missed if you don’t and you just end up kicking yourself. So, yes, I listen to everything that comes through. I don’t need a massive package with your picture, your life story, I don't need it Fed-Exed. It just shows me that you have no regard for money if you’re going to Fed-Ex me your demo. I mean, I don’t have time to listen to your demo the second that someone sends it and I sign for it, you know? The post system works just fine. Send me your demo, I promise I'll listen to it. I’ll get back to everybody who sends me a demo. BENJI B But on the other hand it’s not that useful if you get an unmarked blank CD-R with not much information, right?. ANDREW JERVIS Right, please do put your email adress on it. I don’t have time to call you. If I don’t like it or it’s not suitable for Ubiquity, I don’t have time to give you personal feedback on every record because that just would take up the entire week, it’s just not realistic. BENJI B OK, so I've sent you my CD, you listened to it and you liked it. And you’re thinking actually, “We might do a 12" with him or we might do an album with these guys or whatever.” Give me a walkthrough from start to finish. When you've made that decision, what happens between that moment and the record coming out? But I want everything. Everything you have to do, everything you have to think about. Contracts, artwork, manufacturing, the whole bit. ANDREW JERVIS Okey-dokey. “Thank you for your demo, we’re pretty interested.” [laughter] I mean, it starts with a phone call, feeling them out. I mean, someone might send me something great and they’re absolutely off their rocker, it’s probably not worth doing. What was the old phrase, you know? If the honeymoon’s no good, then forget about the marriage. And there’s plenty of artists out there who are artists and they're creative geniuses, they’re maybe a little difficult to work with. You kind have to weigh up, you know, “When I get out of bed tomorrow and my day’s going to be all about working with this guy, is that the guy I really want to be spending my time with?” I mean, part of this is the music business, it’s supposed to be fun, right? So I kind of have to work out, “OK, is this guy sane, this woman, is she sane? Does she get what we’re all about? Are well all on the same page as far as expectations? Do they like how we operate?” I’ll explain a little bit about the things that we might do as far as, “Do we put out singles? How does a remix work? When would your album come out?” There’s a lot of stuff a lot of artists don't know. You know, sometimes you get an album’s worth in a demo and they’re like, “Great, you want it? Great, can you put it out next week?” “No, these things take time.” So, you kind of have to walk through the process with the artist, just like the walkthrough now. Let’s say that the album was complete to keep things easy, maybe it needs a couple of touches here and there. BENJI B If it isn’t, are you paying for mixdown and all that kind of stuff? ANDREW JERVIS Regardless of whether it’s finished or not, we’re going to offer you an amount of money for the album. What you spend on is up to you. BENJI B So this is a crucial bit on the money side. That money is everything. That’s your advance. And out of the advance, if my record is not quite finished and I need to buy this bit of equipment, that’s coming out of it? If I need a mix engineer, is it coming out of that, too? ANDREW JERVIS You got it. BENJI B What about mastering? ANDREW JERVIS We handle mastering. I use one mastering guy called George Horn. He’s been doing it for about 40 years. He works at Fantasy Records, which is in Berkeley, which is very handy. But he is one of the best mastering guys around, at least on the West Coast and definitely in the States. A lot of artists, I mean, I understand that this is their baby, and they want to be involved from the start to the end. And they want their friend to do the mastering or their friend to do the artwork or something like that. But there are certain things that you have to know when running a label that maybe you know best. Trust us, we have done it 15 years. And so, in your case with your demos, after you've mixed them I’m going to take them to Fantasy to master them there. If you want to provide me with some notes on how you think things can be improved, I’ll happily take those to the session with me. BENJI B So, you don’t let me come and sit in there? ANDREW JERVIS You can come too. But you got to make your way to Berkeley. BENJI B Alright, so you phoned me up, saying, “I’m into what you’re doing and we're going to give you this much money to do a record for us or for us to facilitate, putting it out.” Then? ANDREW JERVIS Then? There’s some legal business that’s got to be taken care of, Benji. BENJI B Well, that’s the bit that most people who aren't clued up on the record business need to know about. Boring as it might be and probably that’s why it's a turn-off to the most of us. Without wanting to go into a kind of “clause four” situation, can you just break down what legal stuff need to be discussed at that stage? ANDREW JERVIS You basically need to come up with an agreement that works for the label and works for the artist that keeps everyone happy. Where the artist gets the feel of whether they’re be looked after, they’re going to get payments down the line, that they’re covered. The same applies to the label. The label’s got to know that the artist is going to turn around and sue the label for putting their picture on the album cover or something. It’s basically, unfortunately more and more an insanely large document that everybody has to be happy with. From the artist side, it’s probably pretty good if you read up on this kind of thing. There’s plenty of books about everything you need to know about the music business. Read a couple of books before you sign an agreement. If you have to get yourself a manager or a lawyer. Check them out before you do it, but get yourself a lawyer or a manager. In our case, we always make it plainly obvious to the artist that we’re an independent label, I’m not here to rip you off. I have no time to rip anybody off. I want your record to do great and if you’re record does great, we do great. There’s nothing in the agreement that’s there to trip you up down the line. I have no time for that. BENJI B So, what is a “point” on a record? One could hear people arguing about “point,” what is a “point”? ANDREW JERVIS I guess, it can get super technical and I think “points” is more often a European phrase. Basically, it equates to, “How much money am I going to get for every unit that’s sold?” Every country seems to have a different standard as far as what kind of percentage you’re going to get, and what kind of money can be taken out of your payment. All those things that you’re responsible for. Like, if we do a video, is that a recoupable expense? Is artwork and packaging an expense? BENJI B And this is the stuff we can argue about? Can we discuss this? ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, we can. BENJI B And so, obviously taking into account that everything is a case-by-case example based on the projection of what you're going to sell, etc... In America, just for the example, what is a reasonable thing for us to be expecting to get royalty-wise every time one of our records sells? ANDREW JERVIS Honestly, I think it’s completely case-by-case, because every label has their business set up in a different way. One of the things that we do is we pay everybody the same royalty rate whether you’re a proven seller like Greyboy or whether you're a new kid on the block. You get the same royalty rate. And we don’t do things like we take money out for packaging. When we’re selling a CD we charge that price and what royalty you get is derived out of sales per unit. To be honest, because we’re an eight people mom and pop independent label with a ton of records and hopefully lots of more records to come, if we start changing things too much, it’s extremely difficult when it comes to royalty time for the person to make sure that everybody is getting paid. And we want to make sure that everyone gets paid. So for us as an independent label, we try to kind of streamline everything and keep things as simple as possible. Everything’s up for negotiation, but you’re not going to get a better deal than the best sellers on the label. And if you get into the same field as the best sellers on the label, well, take it or leave it. BENJI B Now, we had Sir Mix-A-Lot talking about the importance of publishing, and you read in articles all the time, “Make sure you own your publishing.” Especially in a genre like hip-hop, where so much of the music is sample-based and this increasing awareness of, “You know what? I’m not going to use samples on this track because I want to get paid. I don’t want to be giving all my money away,” and all that kind of stuff. You read interviews with Just Blaze saying on Fabolous’ “Breathe” they wanted a 100 percent of the publishing. What is publishing? How does it work when you’re sampling a record, what does that mean, giving away my publishing or pay them for publishing? ANDREW JERVIS If I’m a producer and I’m going to sample someone else’s record, technically now whatever it is that you’re sampling is part of your recording. And therefore you owe the composer of that original piece of music, you owe them. It’s like someone coming in and write you a bassline, or write you lyrics. Just because it’s an old record and you sampled it, it doesn’t mean that it’s any less of an important part, an integral part of your track. You owe that person money now. Unfortunately, the whole game has gotten so out of hand, it’s virtually impossible for an independent label to go and clear samples like you used to be able to do. I mean, we’ve got a couple of hip-hop producers on the label, like Ohmega Watts, he’s got a 23-track album out, I don’t think there’s a single sample on there. He basically learned how much it costs to clear a sample and in reality, if you’re going to a major label, we’re talking anything from three grand to whatever crazy number they decide to make up on that day. BENJI B So, we’ve had an artist saying, “Look, whatever you do, don't give your label your publishing. If you think about a publishing deal, try to keep it to yourself.” From a label perspective, why do you want to keep the publishing? ANDREW JERVIS I guess, we look at it as keeping it. The “p.c.” label word that we’re using, we administrate it. From our standpoint, we could do a lot more with the music if we are able to administrate the artists’ publishing. Being there, as I mentioned earlier, record sales barely keep an independent label alive. If we’re able to make money for both the artist and the label – and I gotta point out that where the artists are making a lot more than the label out of a traditional deal – by taking the tracks and pushing them to advertising agencies, to creative types, to film companies who are getting that music sync-ed up for use on radio or film or what have you, then everyone is going to come out a winner. A lot of people need to think that they control their publishing because the record label is evil and they won’t let you do anything with it, or tie you up and blah, blah, blah. And possibly, very possibly that is true in a lot of places. I can only speak for Ubiquity and one of the lessons that we learned very early on – because of the success Greyboy had in getting tracks in movies – is that, if we’re able to administrate that, we can act very fast. And the amount of people that come to us and say, “Oh my god, I need a track for a Pepsi commercial, but I need clearance on it in two hours. Can you do it?” If I don’t administrate that publishing, it means that I have got to find someone’s manager, someone’s lawyer, the artist. “Can we get more signed off, is everything OK? Or you want to look at the agreement?” “OK, but I've got to have the answer within an hour because I get my guy to look at it.” The advertising agency just says, “Sorry.” And then everybody lost out. Can I tell you a story? It’s a good one. I come up with a Greyboy’s first album or the second, he co-wrote a track with a guitar player. The guitar player, who will remain nameless, cut a deal with a publishing company who took his publishing – I don’t know if it was for life or for a certain number of records or whatever – but took control of the guy’s publishing. So, the track that Greyboy cut was therefore half Greyboy and whoever controlled Greyboy’s publishing, which was us, and one half belonged to I think it was Warner’s. I get a call from someone saying that their making a pilot for a show on HBO, a big cable station. And they wanted to use a Greyboy track as a soundtrack. If it worked out, they might make three or four shows, it’d be a short mini-series. And I think the money was somewhere in the range of 25 grand per episode. We’re like, “Yes! That sounds great, you can definitely use the track.” And then we remembered, “Oops, another publishing company controls half of that track and we need to find out.” The other publishing company came back, said, “What, 25 grand? We want 40 grand.” HBO walked and the show ended up being The Sopranos. From an independent point of view you can see how it’s a little bit disappointing. And even from Greyboy’s perspective, if somebody else had blown that deal for him, he also would see that money. But I think obviously, you’ve got to trust that Ubiquity is going to make the right deals for you. I think what it comes down to is not, “I got to keep my own publishing,” it's, “What’s the best for me at any given time?” And if you trust that with this one record that you’re doing with an independent label that they really going to push your record and they’re really going to take it to all the right people and make the most of it. More than I could do by myself as the artist. Or more than my mate, who owns a publishing company can do because he's got a few contacts. “Maybe I should consider the label...” BENJI B So, basically, we should consider, has this person got good link-up’s for sync rights? Do they know people in the advertising business and all that kind of stuff? ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, right. BENJI B Can you tell us a story about, first of all real quickly, can you tell us what the Rewind project is about? ANDREW JERVIS Rewind is a series that we came up with. To be honest, you learn from your mistakes. And if you don’t, you won’t be around for very long in any business. And for a long time we tried to push this notion that we’re a label that didn’t have any boundaries. We could do old-school soul, we could do new-school jazz, we could do Latin music, we could do Brazilian music, and here we are having fun doing it. We tried to put this feeling on a compilation series called No Categories. And No Categories we thought would encapsulate everything that we’re about. Had a little bit of everything on there, and if you’re a DJ you might pick it up because there are some tracks that you can play in a club. If you’re a listener, average Joe that goes to a record store, you could pick it up and put on your stereo at home and it wouldn’t be something you would take off because it wasn’t obnoxious from the standpoint of being a pure club record. A nice, kind of mixtape situation. But No Categories never really took off. They did OK, but when we got to volume five, we just cut it off because it’s just too hard to push that concept. And we discovered that with a compilation you really have to have a good concept. You have to have a concept that is really super strong. Calling a compilation No Categories is not strong enough, it’s the complete opposite. So, we were thinking, “The compilation market is pretty good and it would be nice to keep doing these things.” It’s definitely a different kind of way than just sell the label from artist type releases. And just had this brainwave about doing just cover versions. Rewind would be a good title ’cause it’s more roots in old school, reggae, just DJ situations. And so we thought, “What if we asked our favorite bands to do cover versions?” And they could be old, they could be new. Initially we thought, if we owned the rights, they can remix old records, but eventually this series has become about creating new versions to old tracks from scratch. Currently, we’re working on volume five and we’ve got people covering everyone from Frank Zappa to Led Zeppelin to Michael Jackson. BENJI B So say, your schedule’s clear, my record’s finished, it’s mixed beautifully and it’s ready to go. What’s the minimum number of months or amount of time that realistically it’s going to take to get everything ready and get it out on the street? ANDREW JERVIS We work on a four-month schedule. You can’t just walk away and say thanks. By that time you also have to been taken care of paperwork with me, which means that you’ll have your guest guitar player sign off on something that says he was a guest guitar player and that he got paid and he is not going to come back and sue you or hold you up for something down the line like The Sopranos. So, we have to take care of all the legal business. So basically, the day when we meet and you say, “Here’s the album,” I also want to have a stack of papers all signed off, if we haven’t already been taken care of business. So that I know that we’re not going to start the process of getting your record manufactured and only a few months later pop up, “Oh, you know what? I don’t like that agreement. I’m not going to sign it.” And we will have to hold everything up. As an independent label you cannot afford to have those kind of hold-ups. So ideally, there’s a four months gap. You've handed me your paperwork, you’ve handed me your CD and we have now one month to turn around a promo for us. [picks up CDs] You know, promo CDs look like this. The CD as it is, as you would find it in a regular CD, in a cardboard case as you have to shave off some corners on expenses. All information you need is on the back and all the contact information and all that kind of stuff. It takes about a month to turn those around, and then that leaves you with about three months to promote the record, which is about the amount of time you’re going to need if you going to your record talked about in the kind of magazines you want it to be talked about. Most magazines work at least two months, usually three, some of the more obnoxious ones four to six months in advance. How you’re supposed to know what’s coming out in six months time? So, we will have to get our records in the hands of journalists who will then pitch it and then the editor’s going to say yes or no – that’s a lot of time. And so, while you may be extremely excited about getting that record out, it’s going to be four months. BENJI B Right. And with all the little nitty gritty, we’ve got the artwork sorted out, the promo gets done... ANDREW JERVIS We basically use that month, we get the promo guy working like mad getting the promos, the press release together. We got the production guy working on not only kicking out the promo, but also working on the finished product. So he’s got photographers out there, he’s got the artwork, all your liner notes, all your credit information lined up and he has to assemble that. Obviously, with four months to go it’s not absolutely necessary to have the finished product show up at the same time as the promo copy show up, but why not take care of the business at the same time? BENJI B OK, so let me ask you this, on a purely financial level, is it worth it? ANDREW JERVIS On every tenth record, yes. On every record, probably not. BENJI B I mean, especially in America the difference between major record industry and independents is enormous. ANDREW JERVIS On the one hand, yes. But on the other hand, there are a lot of records coming out on major labels or you look at their soundscans and you go... [coughs in embarrassment] Why do they do that? And they must have spent bucketloads on it. BENJI B So, I’m not necessarily talking about efficiency. I mean, what kind of numbers are we talking about? What’s a result where you think, “We did well on that one?” What's good numbers? ANDREW JERVIS Let’s say on a single, most of our singles sell somewhere in region of 2,500 copies. A good single might sell somewhere between five and ten thousand copies, and we had singles selling 15 to 20 [thousand]. BENJI B OK. So, my name’s been out there a little bit, the fan base is kind of alright, you reckon as a calculated estimate that I’m going to sell between five thousand and ten thousand records of my new 12”. How much money are you signing me for? ANDREW JERVIS I wouldn’t sign you based on a single. BENJI B How much would you pay me to put that out? OK, let’s do a different one. This is a 12-track album, and it’s going to sell five to ten thousand records. ANDREW JERVIS Five to ten thousand? That’s probably not that many. You mean, that’s really like a Luv'N Haight record. With a Luv'N Haight record you might expect somewhere in the range of five to ten thousand records back, for five to ten thousand records sold, ’cause it’s a risk. BENJI B So, take the John Arnold record. How many does that sell? ANDREW JERVIS Luv'N Haight records always sell less than Ubiquity records. I would be disappointed if we would sell five thousand, when we’re expecting to sell between 10 and 20. The Rewind compilations usually are doing around 15 or so, plus we have singles that are doing really well off of that. You combine that project and we might end up selling 20, 25 thousand of a Rewind thing. BENJI B I’m just trying to de-mystify from an artist point of view because you hear a lot of people in the modern independent music world kind of saying, “I’m not making any money off my 12"s but they’re kind of like a business card for my DJing.” I mean, if I do a record for you and it takes me like ten months of blood, sweat and tears and love, how much money am I going to make off that if you’re going to expect it to be doing good? ANDREW JERVIS Some of it is extremely hard to say because some of it is in the hands of the gods, as far as is anyone going to license it? From a 12" it’s extremely hard to make any money because, as you say, these days it is just a calling card for your album. And we don’t do any singles at the moment from artists that we’re not doing any albums from, it’s just not worth it. Even if I sell five or ten thousand copies, part of the reason that I maybe sold five to ten thousand copies is because I had to fork out four grand for a remix from somebody and that’s a big expense on a 12" to get back that’s selling for three bucks or something. BENJI B OK, considering you are selling 12"s and it’s not particularly lucrative as a label, how are you surviving? What are the other commercial interests you have? ANDREW JERVIS First of all, I’m still a firm believer as a DJ in the value of 12"s. I can’t wait to open my pile of 12"s that arrive every day, I still go shopping for 12"s every Friday. And we still put out 12"s although we know that it’s a losing proposition because that’s part of how our little world goes around. And if I’ve got a red hot 12" from Rebirth from a forthcoming compilation album, fingers crossed, if people put two and two together, “The single’s great, so I'm going to buy the album.” It’s still the basic way to get the word out there. And even with albums that you put out, often times, the first album from an artist that is maybe signed for three, maybe the first album won’t recoup. But you sold enough where it’s worthwhile doing a second one and by that time the buzz has built and you’ve got a much bigger fan base and you put the second one out and things start to catch up and then you start to make some money. Sometimes these things take time. Or you do a Greyboy selling 75 thousand copies on your first record. BENJI B Which brings us neatly on artist development. So what happens if Ahmet Ertegun in that film ‘Ray,’ he signs Ray Charles to Atlantic, the early days, puts all the love and effort in doing it – it’s on a different scale because Atlantic was huge anyway. You know, and then Warner comes in and offers him how many millions? At that point, in the equivalent stage whatever it is, you’ve invested three album’s worth in me, no one knew me before that stage and you’ve given me all that time and effort, when finally Universal knock on my door and say, “Hey, your stuff’s great, here's a million dollars.” What’s your reaction at that point? ANDREW JERVIS I’d be lying if I say it wasn’t a disappointment if we are selling a lot of your records. But, at the same time, I know what my place on this earth is, I know where our record label lies in the grand scheme of things and I’m not the kind of person that’s going to hold you back. If you’re about to become the next Ray Charles, good on you, cool. And let’s be honest, if our agreement is an agreement that covers both the artist and the label, if you get signed to Sony or someone for a million bucks, I’m probably covered a little bit by that and I’ll probably end up not losing out completely in that deal. And getting a millions bucks, you’re probably not worried about the small amount of change I’m going to get back after it. I mean, I realize that a label like Ubiquity is often seen as a springboard label. Someone might come along, put out a record and then the buzz builds and boom, they get a major label deal. That’s cool as long as it goes organically along in that kind of order. It doesn’t always. BENJI B So you believe in artist development, putting the effort in, working through over time. So, when you’re looking to sign someone you’re not thinking, “The 12" tomorrow and what's that immediately going to and then the album...” You kind of think what happens three years down the line and what could this person become, that kind of deal? ANDREW JERVIS Sometimes. Because it’s so much easier to make music these days, there’s so many artists and so many opportunities, people are thinking about putting their own records out and things like that, to some degree more and more people only want to put out one album with you. They want to kind of test the waters. If it works out well, cool, you will come back I know you will. If it doesn’t, it didn't work out for me as much as it worked out for you and you could find your other label and we wish you good luck. BENJI B So tell me this, in the independent label business, whether that’s in the minimal techno world or whether it’s in your scene or whether it’s in any particular niche that you might want to come up with, is it all love? I mean, is it cool for me to do a record for and this guy over here? Is that cool? Is there a lot of poaching that goes on in between? ANDREW JERVIS There’s definitely some poaching that goes along and I think it’s the same with any kind of business, if you’re curteous about it and if it’s a win-win situation for everybody, then I’m not going to say no, but there’s ways to go about doing it. You know, there are some labels that are slyer than others. There are some labels that are more business-like about how things go down. Let’s take Platinum Pied Pipers, a lot of people wanted Waajeed to do remixes for them. I’m not going to stop Waajeed from doing remixes and seeing his name plastered all over the other people's 12"s with a Platinum Pied Pipers remix. That would be stupid. He can go aheadand do that. If people want Ohmega Watts to guest on their record, then it starts getting a little bit more interesting. But if he’s a guest on someone else’s record, I probably can’t stop him, unless I’ve got it written down that the name Ohmega Watts on someone else’s record can’t be used without our permission. Then probably we’re going to say, “OK, go ahead.” But somewhere on that it should mention something about Ubiquity, but only because it makes sense anyway. If there’s some larger producer comes along, likes what Ohmega Watts is doing, wants him to guest-MC on his record, that would probably help sell Ohmega Watts records. So, we’re not stupid. But at the same time, just as you said, you’ve been working yourself to death putting together this record. We’re going to work like crazy to make sure that everybody knows about your record. We might spend ridiculous amounts of man hours, we might spend a ridiculous amount of money, and then have someone else come along and say, “I’d like to put out your next record.” You know, obviously that’s a little bit of a shock then. BENJI B But you’re like bankrolling tours and that kind of stuff? Do you do tour support? ANDREW JERVIS Totally by artist. Some artists need a lot of help, others have great booking agents that get really creative and can put your bands on the road without having them come back and asking for everything to get pay for. Others need a little bit of dough here and a little bit of dough there, it totally depends. BENJI B OK, let’s get back to the vinyl thing. As many people at the moment, I am negotiating the digital world. I’m coming from a vinyl DJ perspective, but now, when I go out, I’ve just a got a CD case. When I do a radio show, 60 or 70 percent of the stuff is coming to me digitally. How is that affecting your record sales? At the moment, if I don’t go in a record shop for two months, I don’t feel it as hard as I would have done. And that in my logic would tell you there’s not as many people going into record shops, buying as many records. How are you evolving with that? ANDREW JERVIS Specifically on the vinyl front we’re doing less records, but doing them better. I think the cutting out on doing random 12"s here and there has just been a necessity. Doesn’t mean that we're not going to do 12"s, because we like to do them. Someone asked me this for a magazine the other day, “What's the greatest impact on your record sales? Is it MP3s?” I think a lot of people use that as an easy excuse now. When MP3s are flying around everywhere as freebies, it’s extremely worrying as a record label trying to sell physical product. If your music’s good, it’s going to sell. I mean, if it’s good, the guy or the woman’s going to go to the store, pick up your CD and buy it. If it’s crap, they’re not. So, to some degree, it hasn’t affected sales. On the other hand, we get a nice check from iTunes every month. So there are people out there buying our music digitally and legally, and that’s great. There’s still things out there that are somewhat illegal and when you see someone’s album up online completely free for download for everybody, the idea about it is extremely disappointing because we not only spent a lot of money on that album, but the artist wants to get paid at the end of the day. So, I know this is an old argument and people see both sides of that, but from our standpoint iTunes, Napster... BENJI B I mean from iTunes, I really don’t know how these things work. I’m really curious to hear how you would explain how this whole thing financially works, but from the artists perspective, say, a new Nas record is coming out and I like tracks four, six and eight – I’m not spending 15 dollars or whatever it is in the States on a CD. I’m going to spend 99 cents on tracks four, six and eight and it costs me three dollars. So, everyone’s making their own choices of what an album should be now. So, you are not the A&R making choices of what a record should be now, it’s more democratic in a way. But from an artists perspective, if I’m putting this album out, how many of these 99 cents do I see at the end of the day? ANDREW JERVIS It’s 99 cents, 33 cents to iTunes, 66 for the label and then the label splits to whatever agreement you have set. But in the end it works out possibly better than physical sales. There’s no packaging deductions, there’s no... BENJI B Where I am you buy a 12" for seven or eight pounds. In the US, I guess, it’s seven or eight dollars. And usually you buy a 12" because of one tune. It might have the instrumental, which is definitely a bonus or it might have a nice remix on it, but more often it’s only one tune. So, now I'm suddenly buying it for 99 cents. Is it that vinyl is so expensive... ? ANDREW JERVIS Vinyl is extremely expensive. The jacket is expensive, the mastering is expensive, the glass master that you have to create is all extremely expensive. A 12" should... BENJI B So it’s working out the same effectively for you? ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, pretty much. BENJI B Alright, I’m a music fan or I’m an artist that wants to put my own record out. Either way, I want to start a label. Give me five things not to do, first of all. ANDREW JERVIS Don’t rush into it. Most of the time most of the people that are either an artist, or even me, if someone hands me a their record, I can’t wait to get it out. I’m really excited about it, I just can’t wait to get it out. But it’s just not worth cutting the corners. Always plan for just the worst case scenario happening. Just know that you can’t spend your brains out on every single record and if something was to go wrong... I mean, if you’re really serious about putting up a label, you have to have some cash in the bank just in case there’s a rainy day somewhere along the way. Make sure you know your legal business. Make sure you have distribution set up. If you’re really starting doing a label, and if you’re only to plan one single record, make sure to know where to sell it. BENJI B Before you finish, what is distribution? I mean, you hear horror stories about “this distributor goes down” and then this label’s owed a hundred grand. I mean, how can that happen? What’s the relation between distributor and label? ANDREW JERVIS From the perspective with Ubiquity, Ubiquity in America at least is distributed by a company called The Alternative Distribution Alliance, which is a sub-distribution company of Warner Brothers. Some arm of Warner Brothers. ADA is the company that allows us to get into record stores like Tower or Virgin and your major chains, even smaller chains, regional chains and your good independent stores. Your distributor may also allow you to sell to some outlets by yourself. They may or maybe not, depends on who you’re talking to and what the circumstances are. And you can also sell a lot of on your own records, too, if you have a decent website. We sell a lot of records off our site, too. But without ADA we wouldn’t be selling the major chunk of the records that we sell in the States at least. And the same goes for all the other territories around the world. I have a distributor in Japan, I have a distributor in England, I have a distributor in France, wherever. You can cut down on the amount of work that you want to do if want to buy into a P&D deal, which stands for production and distribution deal. You basically give your album, your CD, your product, to someone and say, “I don't have the money, do you like this? Could you produce it and distribute it for me?” That's another way to start things rolling. It’s definitely not something that many people consider once they’ve been in the business for a little while. It’s kind of like the first rung on the ladder kind of situation for a lot of people. A lot of distributors won’t go anywhere near you until you have a catalog of records to offer them or you have the red-hot record of the moment. Which can be difficult to have, if you don’t have distribution. It’s kind of an evil circle. So, we deal with ADA, we’ve been with them for a long time. We already had a back catalog when we went to them, we hoped they would sell our back catalog as well as our new records. We are in touch with their reps every single day of the year. For those people that don’t know, record stores charge you to carry your CDs. You might see my CD on a display in Tower Records or on a listening post, I’m actually paying for the damn thing do be there. It’s not because they think it’s a good record, it’s because I actually pay them to do it. BENJI B Can you compete, though? I mean, obviously if you’re Def Jam, it’s slightly easier to get your record in the racks in the front of HMV than if you’re... ANDREW JERVIS Sometimes, I’m not even given the opportunity. I’m told, “I’m sorry, you can’t put your record on display this month because there’s no space, someone bought it.” “What do you mean? My record’s coming out this month.” BENJI B But so on the listening posts, you mean it’s not down to the dude in the back who goes, “I kind of like this one, we’ll put that on?” You have to pay for that as well? ANDREW JERVIS There’s a small amount of wriggling room, you might find a nice guy somewhere, who likes your stuff, who’s been a fan of yours and you butter him up with some promos somewhere along the way. And maybe he’ll sort you out. But mainly it’s incredibly corporate, by the book, and yes, I’m paying to have my music on the listening station. And you can bet that, if I buy months worth of time on a listening station with a certain chain, that I’m going to call as many of those stores as I can, just to make sure my record is actually sitting there on that listening station. Because it wouldn’t surprise me if I went in a certain number of stores and the record is still in the back. And I still get charged for an entire month worth on that listening station, but it’s not actually physically there. So it costs you a lot of money to put a record out. So, if you’re going to put your record out, make sure you have a little bit of dough in the bank and that you have your distribution situation sorted. BENJI B OK, back to the do’s and don’ts, just give us a few more. ANDREW JERVIS Don’t make the same mistake twice. Please. This is supposed to be fun. Say, “Hey, I work for a record label, I’m their A&R guy.” “Wow, it must be so cool.” Yeah, it’s cool, but at the same time I also got to get up in the day and I have to talk to everybody that I’m working with. Don’t work with people you don’t want to. Don’t sign artists that you have this slight hint that they are not going to be the right person for your label. AUDIENCE MEMBER I have a very specific question. ANDREW JERVIS Do I owe you money? AUDIENCE MEMBER No, don’t worry. You put out two of my favorite reissues on Luv'N Haight. One of them is Don Cunningham, the other one is Black Renaissance. ANDREW JERVIS Cool. So you're one of those few people that he said he [points at Benji, the interviewer] knew about it. AUDIENCE MEMBER Well, I didn’t know about it until you reissued it. I was just interested because in both cases there’s a really good story surrounding the original record. Don Cunningham, originally sold at the Playboy Club, the Black Renaissance the master tapes being destroyed in a fire. I was wondering how on earth you managed to reissue those records, really? ANDREW JERVIS You bring up a good point, actually. One of the reasons that we do put out these records is because not just the music’s good, of course it’s a major part of it, but also has a really good story attached to it. Or if it has some social history or some political angle to it, that’s even better because the more story you can tell, the more you can put into these old records and how interesting the booklet might be. The more you do, you do the old guy a big favor by telling a story and telling people why the record never really came out. Just real quick, Black Rennaisance was a project from this guy called Harry Whitaker. Harry Whitaker was the piano player for Roy Ayers. He was also Roberta Flack’s musical director. So, he has actually had a really successful career. But the poor guy went and recorded one record on Martin Luther King day in 1971 or ’72, got all these incredible players into a studio in New York and recorded two tracks that are about twenty minutes long each. Roberta Flack showed up, she’s in the crowd kind of like shouting in the background and it’s one of the first jazz and soul records that almost has some semi-rapping on it. It’s a really interesting record from a musical point of view. BENJI B Have you got it? [to the audience audience] Do you want to hear it? AUDEINCE MEMBERS Yeah. ANDREW JERVIS It’s an interesting record. What happened was somehow – and Harry’s memory is a bit fuzzy as with a lot of these guys who recorded that stuff 30 or 40 years ago – he lent a copy to a company in Japan to have a listen and never heard anything back. Either his house burned down or the house where the master tapes had been stored in and he lost the master tapes. Probably because Roy Ayers travels a lot he got to hear that his record has come out in Japan and he couldn’t understand. You know, here’s this one guy in New York, new to the business at the time and didn’t really understand what had happened and tracking down those guys in Japan, he didn’t speak Japanese, for instance, just couldn’t really do anything about it. A number of people over the years have told him, “Hey, your record’s come out in Japan.” I think at one point he may have seen it because he knew that on the back they got the dates wrong. And it was really important to him that this was a record that he recorded on Martin Luther King day and it was a tribute to Martin Luther King and they put some random day on the back. That was a bit of an insult to him. Another good reason to put that record out. Anyway, we tracked down Harry Whitaker. He wasn’t that hard to track down with all those people that we found. We asked him if it would alright if we put that record out. And he said, “Are people still interested? Who knows about it? Can you send me a copy?” So, he was cool. He was really happy that we tracked him down and we found a clean copy that we could master from and put that guy’s record out and tell the full story, really how it happened, how he came to be who he was and all that good stuff. Don Cunningham. We put out a record by this guy called Don Cunningham, Something For Everyone it’s called, right? And there’s a weird story attached to this record. When we worked in the Groove Merchant in the mid-’90s, back in the era of the fax machine, this fax came through the fax machine that said, “Auction! I have the one mint copy of this record that everyone knows about of this Don Cunningham record. Bid starts at one thousand pounds! Get your bids to me by ‘X.’ We keep everything anonymous and no one need to know who you are.” We're like, “What the hell is this record? A thousand pounds? These people are crazy.” Anyway, it sold and there’s this rumor floating around that Mike, who owns Ubiquity with Jody, had actually bought it, flown to England and paid some guy a thousand pounds. And Mike is not that kind of guy. This is mad, but fine if someone wants to believe that. Strangely, a friend of ours had actually bought it and this was super cool, he sent us tapes of stuff all the time, he was really into his music. And he said, “You know what? You want to borrow this record and if you find the guy, go ahead and put it out. Just make sure that I get thanks.” In the end, we found Don Cunningham. He still sings with his wife, they live in Las Vegas, they tour with the Duke Ellington Orchestra or someone like that. They were delighted to hear that people were still interested in that record, which was, as you pointed out, originally sold in the Playboy Club that his band played at in St. Louis. The St. Louis Playboy Club in the Tiki Room. He was actually the percussionist for Johnny Mathis back in the day, got to travel with Johnny Mathis all around the world. This is the early ’70s, actually late ’60s and bought all these crazy exotic tropical instruments and went to the studio one day and recorded this crazy jazz record that featured all this interesting percussion stuff and it makes for a great listen now and we were able to track him down and put it out. But I think I’ll have to let you down on both. Go to ubiquityrecords.com! [laughter] Check out the sound snippets. Let me just check one little file here. [searches in his iPod] AUDIENCE MEMBER ’Cause I was wondering about the track “Taboo,” wasn't it a jazz dance tune back in the day or something? It has that reputation for some reason. ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, your Gilles Petersons and your Rainer Trübys and people like that were amongst the lucky few that had copies. They definitely championed that and helped make it... AUDIENCE MEMBER And with the Black Renaissance, did Jazzanova pay you for the bassline they sampled off it? [smirks] ANDREW JERVIS Actually that bassline, it’s funny that you ask because on one record they actually used a bassline and it was ours and we put it out, so yes. On the other one I don’t know, I have to give them a call about that. [laughs] BENJI B That’s an interesting one as well. Is it your money or is it Harry [Whitaker]’s money? ANDREW JERVIS That would probably split between us depending on what kind of agreement we have. In the most part a lot of these guys, first off all they’re absolutely amazed that anybody is interested in their music. And secondly, a lot of them could use some dough. It’s not always the case. Obviously, if I can buy a record outright from someone, we’re still paying royalties and stuff, then they’ll get some more money and we’re able to do a lot more with it. We own the rights to it and if someone samples it, someone else wants to license it, then they’ll come to us, Harry or Don or whoever is involved will still get paid. AUDIENCE MEMBER One final question, which is kind of generic, but what is your favorite 12" that you put out on the label? ANDREW JERVIS I’m really crap at the one. I’ll give you ten or something. I think the favorite ones were when Seiji remixed P'Taah, we had that “Opaque” remix. BENJI B Have you got that? ANDREW JERVIS You keep testing me because I got my little MP3 player here. but that was such a big record at the time, wasn’t it? BENJI B Yeah, it was more than big. In a microscopic way it was big. In a small part of the world it was definitely an anthem. ANDREW JERVIS I really like those records, and 12"s in particular, where we really blurred some boundaries and united some interesting people. For instance, we got Johnny Blas, who’s a percussionist from LA, and we got him remixed by Carl Craig and the result was this 15-minute piece of Detroit techno meets traditional Latin jazz. It was a crazy record. It ended up selling 15,000 copies and getting licensed and heard around the world. People liked it, so it was good. I really like the ones that sell. [laughs] But you know, those are a couple of favorites because they broke some boundaries in a way, some interesting collaborations between folks. AUDIENCE MEMBER I’m not quite sure, are you putting out the Sa-Ra Creative Partners album or was it Sound In Color? ANDREW JERVIS Sound In Color. I can't tell you any more, sorry. AUDIENCE MEMBER I just wanted to know how you feel about them releasing an album on Kanye West’s G.O.O.D. Music label, but then that's probably not a good question. ANDREW JERVIS You know, my general point of view on an artist who is signed to Ubiquity and then go on to much bigger things is, that’s cool if it’s going to happen in a nice organic way. I can't comment on the Sa-Ra thing, unfortunately. But, if someone wants to come along and snap one of our artists after they fulfilled their obligations to us, cool. I mean, that way it meant that we weren’t wrong that someone else thinks that the music we’re into can be brought to an even bigger audience that’s impossible for me to bring them to. That’s cool. AUDIENCE MEMBER OK, another question. I'm not quite sure what legal affairs are, but are you distributing or releasing the records by Tru Thoughts in the United States? ANDREW JERVIS Yeah, Tru Thoughts had a couple of interesting records that we knew we could be doing much better over here. This just illustrates the point of how frustrating distribution can be. Tru Thoughts is a fairly well known label in England and in Europe. Independent, but selling some decent-sized records. I asked them, “How many records are you selling over here?” And they were lucky to be selling five or 600 copies in the States. And I thought, “I can kill that for you. And by doing that we can probably also open up another avenues for you.” So the first Quantic record – which actually was the second Quantic record by this time – we put it out simultaneously, which is the only way so that the record is going to come out in England and the States at the same time. And for the first Quantic record that we sold, we sold something like seven or eight thousand copies in the States. Not only that, but we got them into an iTunes, into a Pepsi commercial, we got them into countless TV shows. It’s just been a nice kind of win-win situation. We’ve had three of their records now, we’re going to put the Bamboos album out in February. So, just another one of those win-win situations. They’re realistic, they know that if we pay them a little bit upfront, it’s more than what they would have made selling just imports. And if we all make money down the line through licensing or sales, then everyone comes out on top. AUDIENCE MEMBER You’re doing a really good job because for me at least in Switzerland, it’s usually easier for me to get the US Ubiquity version than the Tru Thoughts ones. ANDREW JERVIS That’s bizarre. Strange. Well, you better let Tru Thoughts know about that. [laughs] Or I should thank my Swiss distributor. AUDIENCE MEMBER When you do reissues, do you have always access to the original master tapes? ANDREW JERVIS No, not at all. When we do, it’s a beautiful thing for two reasons. First, you usually get a better sound and secondly, if you have the multitracks before it was mixed to one tape, then we can get things like remixes done and that opens up opportunities. You can’t, if you just have the album, which is unfortunately the majority of the time the case for records that are late ’60s, early ’70s. A lot of those guys moved house, got divorced, their house burned down, they lost it, they left it in a puddle of water, they broke, left it at the studio. You know, there’s a million reasons why they don’t have a master tape anymore. Unfortunately, in those cases we will have to work from vinyl and I go to Fantasy Records and they use some pretty hi-end needle on a record to re-create masters. They put it through this process called de-clicking, where they take out all the pops and clicks that you might have on the LP. Oftentimes we try and search out two or three copies of an LP, so that they can cut out the best bits and glue everything together and then hopefully you will have a reasonably good-sounding record. With most of our reissues comes a little sticker saying, “Hey, this is not going to sound like your new Madonna album. This is going to have some dirt.” AUDIENCE MEMBER Have you ever reissued on 180-gram vinyl? ANDREW JERVIS We did on a few records in the past, but never found that the demand was there to do it on every single thing. To do vinyl has gotten so expensive. I mean, it’s insanely expensive. Some of these reissues we might sell half of what we sell in total on vinyl as we do on CD. It’s just too much money. Maybe at some point we do some kind of Best of Luv'N Haight, have it be on super hi-end vinyl just for you. AUDIENCE MEMBER How would you react thinking about Breakestra doing pretty well on Stones Throw? I mean, did they not have a contract with Stones Throw anymore? ANDREW JERVIS Apparently not. I think more and more in the past two years we decided we should work with artists who have some kind of previous history. When you’re starting a label the most frustrating phrase you will get, and we still get it 15 years later is, you don’t have any sales history. How am I going to have a sales history if you don’t want to carry my record to start with? It’s this kind of really frustrating game that you play with people. Some record stores don’t even want to carry your music. I mean, to me that’s just one of the most frustrating parts of this little game that we play here. And then when they tell you that they’re not going to carry because you have no sales history in their store and they still don’t want to carry it in the store, “Wait a minute, how am I supposed to get this if we...?” Anyway going back to answer your question, one of the ways to get by that is to sign acts that have slightly bigger appeal, possibly because they’ve been out playing like crazy or because they’ve got a previous record out on a label like Stones Throw or whatever, you know? Breakestra just wanted to do some of the things a little bit different. We like Breakestra, they are a great live band, they have that kind of West Coast thing going for them that we really wanted to represent. So it seemed like a match made in heaven. AUDIENCE MEMBER Is it true that the worst time to release a record is in the summer? ANDREW JERVIS For Ubiquity it is. I don’t know if other labels find it anything different. Because we do our own distribution, because we manufacture all of our own product, we have distributors in every single territory. France, Spain, Switzerland, Germany, whatever it is, all different distributors. I would like to say the same for over here, but everybody seems to go to sleep in Europe, at least in the music business, between June the 1st and August the 30th. They have this nice long vacation and they refuse to do any work and they don’t carry your music. Unless you have something that starts to sell a lot, they won’t order again come September first. AUDIENCE MEMBER So is there a month you could recommend? ANDREW JERVIS Actually, from the end of January till about May is a really good time to put your record out because there’s a lot of festivals in the summer and if you have really good record that caught on in February, March, April, you might see yourself getting booked for some of the late summer tours. By the same token, if you really have a good record in the fall, that’s when the bigger festivals are getting booked and you end up getting some more work during that following summer. But a good sales period is end of January because everybody else is still kind of recovering from Christmas and New Year, trying to get their act together. If you had gotten your act together back in October, November, and you have your January record ready, you might be the only of very few labels with your record out on the marketplace in January and you have a little less competition and it’s a little less difficult to get space on shelves and it’s a little bit easier to get your records reviewed in the magazines. So, for me, January is great if you have got yourself sorted out far enough in advance. Does that help you? AUDIENCE MEMBER Just a quick question, in Belgium there’s a story that in 2009 it’s going to be finished with vinyl. Is there anything true about that? ANDREW JERVIS I think the record industry seems to go through these crazy phases and it must have been terrifying the first time out when you were a record label back in the early ’70s when the cassette was introduced. You must have just, excuse my french, shit your pants. Can you imagine, the first time someone said, “By the way, we’re putting this thing out called a cassette and you can record any album. I mean, you can pass as many copies as you want and no one is going to buy your records anymore. And actually, we’re selling records as a cassette too.” People must have thought, “Well, that’s the end of the LP.” Well, it didn't happen, right? And then, the CD came along and you can record on CDs. CDs haven’t died, LPs haven’t died, there are still pressing plants in the States who are still pressing vinyl and... are there any pressing plants in England anymore? [turns to Benji] BENJI B I think maybe one, but it’s an interesting question because it raises the idea, what is keeping vinyl alive? Is it people loving vinyl or is it DJ culture? ANDREW JERVIS I think, and to answer both of your questions, it’s a mix and that’s why we only do some vinyl 12"s because we know it’s a limited DJ market. BENJI B I mean, if I’m 16 and I want to get into being a DJ and I go and see my favorite DJ on a Saturday night and he’s playing off a computer or off CDJs, why on earth would I go and buy records? ANDREW JERVIS I don’t know where it’s going to go to, to be honest with you. But I do know that on the reissue side of things that half of what we sell is on vinyl because people want the LP. Where things head off? I don’t know. I don’t see myself in a club with two iPod’s and plug them into the iPod mixer and using it. But, I’m sure there will be people who do. Personally, I’ve always preferred to play records than CDs even. From a DJ perspective it may be different. Maybe things will really trickle out this possibility, but from a collector’s standpoint from the reissue type of things that we do, I’ve never seen record sales take a dip and they are just as strong as they were 15 years ago. AUDIENCE MEMBER On the subject of recycling, I have a question about sampling. You talked a bit about the major labels really paying attention to who is doing what with their catalog with the stuff they own the rights to. How does that work in a company like yours? How do you pay attention to your material not being used illegally? ANDREW JERVIS Two things, oftentimes it’s not the label, oftentimes it’s the publishing company who are keeping an eye out. For us, I don’t really all spend my time wondering about who’s sampling us. And in general, there are some extremely clever ears out there, like Questlove said earlier, he can hear a snare hit or something like that, there are lots of people who have an ear for that kind of thing and can recognize a sample and name it in a second. There are websites dedicated to that kind of stuff. I don’t really pay any attention to them, but if there’s a blatant sample out there, someone has sampled one of our tracks, well, it sort of depends. There are friendly ways to do business. And then there is, if someone’s got a number one, trillion-dollar selling hit and it uses a blatant sample of a track that we own, we probably, and even more important, the artist should see a chunk of that. It’s a strange thing. On the one hand people think that independent labels are little bit more relaxed about it. If someone who is just starting a label uses something of us and maybe one of our artist uses something of his, we’re probably not going to call the guy and say, “Dude, I'm suing you.” There is just a certain way of going about these things legally. I think independent labels too may do have some kind of code of ethics between them and if Stones Throw was to call us and say, “Madlib wants to sample something on Luv'N Haight,” I’m not going to charge a major label fee, we’ll come up with some stupid friendly little agreement and that would be the end of it. It gets annoying when you’re an artist and you have to call some major label telephone number. And literally, I have done this. You call and you have to listen to recorded messages for 30 minutes about how to clear a sample, about where to download the form, who to send it to. It’s insane, just ridiculous. And they want to know whether you’re going to sell 25 thousand units or they would not even give you permission. At some point music is meant to be shared, right? Whether that means me trying to license a track from somebody to put on a compilation or maybe to some degree from a sample. And if you go about business the right way and people are paid a fair amount, not an insanely outrageous amount, then everyone comes out a winner. Does that answer your question? BENJI B Anymore? Well, we need to check out that Black Renaissance record, amongst other things. I’ve got a few bits downstairs and Andrew probably wants to show you the music that he’s got. ANDREW JERVIS I’ve got business cards for you if anybody wants to get in touch via email or whatever. BENJI B But I’ve definitely learned a few things, I think we all have. So, thank you very much. [applause]