No I.D.

Andrew Barber

I would like to bring to the stage No I.D. [applause] Hello again.

No I.D.

Once again.

Andrew Barber

Once again. Always a pleasure to sit down with you, happy to have you back in Chicago.

No I.D.

Happy to be here.

Andrew Barber

You doing alright with the weather?

No I.D.

It’s cold.

Andrew Barber

Shell shocked a little bit?

No I.D.

It’s cold.

Andrew Barber

So, you know, you’ve had an incredible career as a rapper, a producer, an executive, an A&R, you’ve really run the gamut of things that you’ve done in the music business. Some people might say you’re the godfather of Chicago hip-hop but I’ll let you decide that or not. But tonight I just want to talk about your history and how you got to where you are today. So let’s start from the beginning. Hip-hop in Chicago, how did you get into it?

No I.D.

Well... the funny thing about it is for me it really starts with house music. It doesn’t really start with hip-hop and I was gonna talk about that but let’s…

Andrew Barber

Yeah.

No I.D.

Because you said the beginning, that’s why…

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

So, alright let’s skip to hip-hop. Common, I’ve known him since we were nine, ten years old; used to play basketball together. Life, you know. Childhood friend, brother, and he was the one that would bring the hip-hop around. He had a cousin who passed away named Ajile, from Cincinnati, who used to influence us to get these tapes, and that led us to listening to WHPK which was the premier hip-hop radio station for us back then. Chilly Q and JB Chill, a lot of other names that you young people might not know.

But it was a foreign element to us because it was a house music city, period. That’s all we went to, house parties. I did house music, and growing up on the south side, a lot of things we got into were to stay out of trouble. [We could] be creative and be active in a way that would keep us on the straight and narrow. And in comes this thing called hip-hop. There was no scene, there was no industry, there was no thought of a deal, there was no money. It was literally like, “Hmm, let’s try that.” And [that led] to break dancing and making beats and rapping, and making these little tapes, and performing them in different places. But that was my introduction into hip-hop and it probably wasn’t until I heard Paid in Full or Criminal Minded that I was like, “I want to do this, actually. I want to do it.”

Andrew Barber

And so were you hearing those records on WHPK?

No I.D.

Yeah, and then after a while we just started finding the tapes. So we would just go try and find a new hip-hop album that would come out, and it was only certain stores that would have them and you had to just kind of find your way to it. So it was either trying to get someone from New York to send a tape back, so you can learn what those new songs were, what was being played. And then try and find who made it, and buy the tape, and then we would play basketball in the backyard, listen to the rap tapes.

Andrew Barber

And how big of a stronghold did house music have? Were you considered a complete outsider?

No I.D.

Absolutely. It was rare that you would hear a rap record at a party and it definitely wasn’t like [throws hands in the air] It was more like, “What are we supposed to do to this? We don’t even know what that is.” [laughter] Then another good friend that grew up with us was Twilite Tone. Him and Reggieknow, they formed a crew, and they would start throwing these hip-hop parties. And I think that was the first, for me. I know there were things that happened before me and my generation that definitely deserve recognition but for me that was the first place that I could go to and see a hip-hop party. And definitely, me being from the further south side, I had to make a journey to even get to that.

Andrew Barber

Because those guys were in Hyde Park, right?

No I.D.

They were in Hyde Park.

Andrew Barber

So that was like the Dem Dare crew?

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

And you guys were the 87th…

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Street Crew?

No I.D.

Yeah, be careful how you say that. [laughs]

Andrew Barber

Sorry. So, the UAC…

No I.D.

It means something different.

Andrew Barber

OK, OK, my bad. So were you guys known as the UAC at that time? UnAmerican Caravan. Or was that later when you joined with Tone?

No I.D.

Yeah. I don’t know that I was ever in it. I guess I was, but that was more Common, his intermediate circle when he really started rapping, because everybody needed a crew and that was the crew. And I guess I was just more of the producer in the equation than… I guess I was in it though.

Andrew Barber

And did you guys mesh well with the kids from Hyde Park or was there a lot of tension there?

No I.D.

A lot of tension. A lot of tension, but we were nomads. We just kind of roamed around causing trouble, playing basketball, making music, just exploring. Young and dumb without guns really.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

That was the blessing, that we didn’t really have to face kind of what this generation does. We made a lot of mistakes but we didn’t kill each other.

Andrew Barber

Right, and it wasn’t posted on social media for the world to see.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

So these parties that you were going to, where hip-hop was being played, at what point did it start to cross over and you noticed, “OK there’s starting to become a scene here and these people are making music over here, they’re doing it on this side of town,” etc, etc?

No I.D.

I’m gonna say for me... Because I’m going to try and touch on some things I haven’t touched on, because I’ve done a lot of interviews. And I tell them... I’m going to get into some why, a little more why this time, [more] than just what. For me I really kind of quit music at some point and went to college and I really didn’t even have a thought anymore about making it, it being a scene.

I think I kind of ran a course with… because I was making house music and I think the business went so bad that I didn’t have any faith in business anymore. And the side of business for hip-hop and the need of a scene was kind of irrelevant to me at that point. It was more just, “What am I going to do? I don’t know what I want to do with my life,” and I ended up just going away to school which didn’t go the way I wanted it to go.

Andrew Barber

So you go down there, and from what I’ve read or what we’ve discussed in the past, you and Common were kind of sending music back and forth. Playing it for each other on the phone, answering machines and things like that, right?

No I.D.

Well no, actually how that went was, I went away to SIU [Southern Illinois University], which is a party school, and I lost my mind.

Andrew Barber

You had a little too much fun.

No I.D.

I did.

Andrew Barber

A little too much fun at SIU.

No I.D.

And actually the weird thing is I went for electrical engineering, something [where] you’re not supposed to lose your mind if you have any hopes of getting through it. But I had the wherewithal, I remember calling my mother like a year and a half in going, “I don’t want to waste your money, I need to come home.” And now, serious now. So now I saw that Common was still going with the music and I was like, “Hmm.” And now I could kind of see the seeds of a scene and different things.

Andrew Barber

So you were watching this happen from afar?

No I.D.

I watched it and I go, “I gotta get back in it. How am I gonna get back in it?” So I started making beats for me.

Andrew Barber

Because you rapped.

No I.D.

Because I rapped.

Andrew Barber

Yes. People here may not know that.

No I.D.

Yeah. So I was like, maybe I could be the third guy in the crew after, you know? And I just started making beats.

Andrew Barber

You could be like MC Ren. No disrespect but you’re not [Ice] Cube, you’re not…

No I.D.

Yeah. I’m just saying I gotta do something because my parents had a rule which served me well which was, “Have a job or get out or be in school. Take a pick.” So I remember the first real job I worked was telemarketing after I came home from college and I lasted a day and a half and then…

Andrew Barber

That fast, huh?

No I.D.

Yeah, and then my father, he has an electrical company and Regents Park was one of his clients. So he goes, “Come over here, put you to work,” and it was so bad. I mean... and the way the other people in the building were treating me. So I got about a week in and they had me doing stuff like scrubbing the pool with acid and cleaning the pipes on the roof, a hundred degrees and the steam in my face and I remember looking at the pipes, looking at the lake. “I’m doing music, right?” And that’s when I decided, right? And I come down and I go, “I quit.” I’m doing music. My father’s like, “Well what are you going to do?” I’m like, “Music.” He’s like, “That’s not a real thing.”

Andrew Barber

Very foreign now. Even now, it’s…

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

But back then it’s like…

No I.D.

Yeah, you’re like, “Come on, man.”

Andrew Barber

In Chicago, like, “What do you mean?”

No I.D.

He’s like, “Well you know what this means?” “I know.” I packed up my Aries K and I drove to Tallahassee where Common was still in school. I showed up, I said…

Andrew Barber

Did he know you were coming or did you just pull up?

No I.D.

Yeah, I told him. I said, “I’m on the way. I’m pulling up. Make some space.” So in that time period is where I started. It’s actually funny because a good friend of ours, Omaron, was back here with him and I remember the day when Tone, Omaron, me and Common... we used to go to his house in Hyde Park and just play stuff. And I remember I came and played some of my beats and they had finally got there, and he said some raps, and they finally got there.

And we kind of looked at each other and was like... he was like, “Let me get that one.” And that was the first time that I was really producing for him. And really most of the beats on Can I Borrow a Dollar? were my beats, for me…

Andrew Barber

Or for yourself?

No I.D.

Yeah, he would be like, “Let me get that one, let me get that one.” And mind you I ended up getting like $200 a beat.

Andrew Barber

It’s a pretty good deal. It’s not bad.

No I.D.

It worked.

Andrew Barber

Yeah, it works. It’s a placement, a placement worked. Did you do his demo, the one that eventually got to…

No I.D.

That was some of the stuff that came about. So all in this time period is my level of desperate tempo sped up, and I was just making more and more and more music. And that’s when I started leaving them messages on the machine and playing beats, anything just to get something going because it didn’t look good. It did not look good.

Andrew Barber

It didn’t look good but then things started happening.

No I.D.

Things started happening and whatever that means. It really didn’t, but it did. He got a deal, which was an indie deal, the irony of that in 2018 when people are now fighting for independence. We started in an indie deal, because that’s what hip-hop was. It was indie deals.

Andrew Barber

It was through Relativity.

No I.D.

Relativity.

Andrew Barber

Before they were picked up by…

No I.D.

Now mind you, OK, we put a record out. It wasn’t like [cheers], it was still like, “Yeah, that’s cool.” And I remember two specific things that happened. We went and opened up for [Uncle] Luke at FAMU [laughter] and I’m DJing…

Andrew Barber

That is apples and oranges right there.

No I.D.

Oh man, and we’re doing these records, “Take It Easy,” and the pennies start flying and I’m like... [laughter]

Andrew Barber

So you’re ducking loose change onstage. Not panties, pennies.

No I.D.

Yes. Penny for my thoughts. So I’m like, “Let’s wrap it up.”

Andrew Barber

Were you DJing?

No I.D.

Yeah, I actually had the SP-1200s up there and I was actually doing music live.

Andrew Barber

So Tone would DJ and you would…

No I.D.

No, he wasn’t even DJing then, he was hype man.

Andrew Barber

OK.

No I.D.

So he was actually performing. And then we left there, and we went and opened up for KRS-One and we ended up having fun. I love KRS-One. He’s rapping and we’re throwing the sampler tapes out and the sampler tapes are coming right back. [laughter]

Andrew Barber

And are you in New York opening up for him or is this here, local?

No I.D.

New York. I’m like, “Man. We ain’t there yet.”

Andrew Barber

Not there yet.

No I.D.

We’re not there yet.

Andrew Barber

You’re not there yet, OK.

No I.D.

And it wasn’t really ’til Resurrection that things turned around.

Andrew Barber

From the outside looking in as a young fan, I’m seeing the videos on Rap City, I’m seeing the videos on Yo! MTV Raps, so to the outside world it looks like you’re on. And OK, these are rap stars.

No I.D.

Welcome to the industry. It looks different than it is. We knew we were going out; we were touching the people. So we knew when people really were in and when they weren’t. Just because it got played that don’t mean people liked it or respected it to be honest. But it was baby steps, and a lot of times people don’t understand until you really...

Your environment can create something really special, but it could be multiplied when you go around the world and you see more. That’s when you can expand that thing; and sometimes we don’t ever get to that point, because we don’t know how to get past that tipping point that allows us to move around and journey, and see different environments, and learn other stories. And kind of take that and come back and apply it differently.

Andrew Barber

That’s the thing that can hinder a lot of artists, people don’t want to move around, go do that type of thing.

No I.D.

Absolutely.

Andrew Barber

You got to really want it.

No I.D.

Yeah and I always say this, music is the one, not the one thing – there’s a few things – but one of the things that a lot of people just try and do with no previous education, no proper guidance or mentorship…

Andrew Barber

You don’t need it to get in the business, right?

No I.D.

You just wake up one day and ... I’ll do music. I’m a manager. I produce. I got Fruity Loops. It was free, I downloaded it. And that’s it and you know there’s no other real profession in this world where you just wake up and do it and say you’re doing it.

Andrew Barber

Now it’s even easier. There’s no barrier of entry anymore.

No I.D.

No, you could just do anything and put it out and buy some views.

Andrew Barber

Right. It’s that easy.

No I.D.

Everywhere I look. Buy followers.

Andrew Barber

But you guys had to actually…

No I.D.

Yes. We had to go through all of this all the time, and it had to bear fruit in a real way otherwise it did not exist. It just didn’t exist. There’s a lot of things that were played back then that we don’t talk about and those people don’t have careers. They don’t, you know. And we supposed to pick something that’s supposed to feed our families and fulfill us but that’s not always the case with the paths that we choose. And when you take three steps back again, what made us think that we could just do it anyway?

That’s something that motivational people [say]… “Do it, you can do anything.” But there is a thing called education, and the positive person goes, educate yourself and then you can... and so I’m right in between the middle there. I’m seeking information. I don’t have to go to a specific building and pay to learn. It’s 2018, the information is available. You can seek information, guidance, and I guess my point is that when I look back I can see the growth between demo, Can I Borrow A Dollar?, Resurrection. We began to educate ourselves. We met people, we learned more. I learned what I was doing, I wasn’t guessing. I was applying what I had as the kid that grew up, [whose] father played jazz in the house, always heard it. Loved music, DJed, played house music, understood tempos and edits and remixes, and then got into hip-hop and understood those elements.

But then as I traveled I began to understand how people were making records that were working, and I was no longer guessing. And I was mixing that with what I liked, and then it kind of turned into my style.

Andrew Barber

Right. And did you record Can I Borrow a Dollar? in Chicago or did you have to go to New York and…

No I.D.

New York.

Andrew Barber

So everything at the time, you guys were going to New York to record everything?

No I.D.

And the funniest thing is I used the SP-1200 which only had 10 seconds of sampling time. A lot of records, we would need 20 seconds, so I had to make part of the beat on here and then take the disc out and make another part. And I would never even hear it together until it was laid.

So when we went to do this album we would go and we got like, “Alright we’re doing 13 songs and we got ten days,” and we never heard it all together ever before that.

Andrew Barber

Wow. You would have to go literally lock in for ten days.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Writer’s block be damned, creative blocks…

No I.D.

No, you gotta have the songs before you get there. Not writing.

Andrew Barber

OK.

No I.D.

Not much writing in there. Listen, “Ten days, have your raps and you have these beats, go.”

Andrew Barber

So you never heard them, there was no pre-production before that though?

No I.D.

No.

Andrew Barber

OK.

No I.D.

That’s just what it was and we had to imagine the result.

Andrew Barber

So the first album comes out, doesn’t sell that well but it doesn’t matter. You get another shot. How hard was it to get another shot back then?

No I.D.

$200 a beat.

Andrew Barber

The budget was small.

No I.D.

The deal might’ve been $50,000.

Andrew Barber

So they give you another chance.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

And this becomes the Resurrection.

No I.D.

Well, because of the “Soul By The Pound” remix.

Andrew Barber

So that’s what did it?

No I.D.

That’s what kind of made people go, “Ah, OK, give them a shot.”

Andrew Barber

OK, because they liked that record. That had the most traction of any.

No I.D.

Yeah, that was like, OK. Then I got a couple calls. “Hey man, that was pretty good.” Before, it was like, “Yeah man, doing your little rap thing huh? Keep it up.” [laughter]

Andrew Barber

And so you guys are going to New York, you’re traveling around, you’re these Chicago kids in New York and are you getting… there’s no rap in Chicago, I’m sure they’re probably kind of treating you guys a little different. Were you getting respect?

No I.D.

Not at first but the first people we met was the Beatnuts, Chi-Ali, and then we met Q-Tip.

Andrew Barber

You’re like Native Tongues and like…

No I.D.

Yeah. Fat Joe, Pun before Pun was signed. So in this circle where... back then, digging in the crates was a thing, so I was a DJ. So I’d be like, “Hey back in Chicago’s a lot of records, do you want to give me some names? I’ll go get some stuff for you,” which is how I really started to learn how to do that specific art of just finding obscure music to sample, which broadened my ear, made me more educated. I learned about reading about the personnel on records. It just expanded my horizons in a way that I never would’ve just expanded it on my own.

Andrew Barber

So this is ’94 which is maybe the most competitive year in rap music history.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Yeah.

No I.D.

I call it the platinum era.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

The golden era was before the platinum era.

Andrew Barber

This is the platinum era?

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Where people are really going platinum.

No I.D.

Yeah. Drug deals are accepted too. Before that they weren’t.

Andrew Barber

Right. So you’re competing with the likes of Biggie, competing with... Nas drops in ’94, Wu-Tang’s doing their thing in ’94, Craig Mack. It’s a lot of stuff happening. Murder Was The Case soundtrack. That album drops in the fall of ’94, right? Fourth quarter, yeah?

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

So all the big dogs are out.

No I.D.

Yeah. Not to mention Chronic is still tearing up the atmosphere. Doggystyle. So imagine we’re like, “Take It Easy” and all of that’s happening. We’re like, “Oh man.”

Andrew Barber

And it’s a big change from Can I Borrow a Dollar? to Resurrection. It’s a completely different sound.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

Common was kind of rapping almost like a Das EFX. He had a fast rap. This was a totally different sound.

No I.D.

Yeah, this was like, “Hey man we’re gonna get serious. Stop playing around. I’m not playing, you’re not playing, let’s go.”

Andrew Barber

So what changed the mindset? Is it because you saw...

No I.D.

Yeah, we traveled. We saw the pennies was flying, everything. We were like, “Hey man we’re gonna be back at home.”

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

Let’s turn up.

Andrew Barber

Let’s not go back home empty handed.

No I.D.

We’re not going home.

Andrew Barber

We’re gonna go home with a W.

No I.D.

Yes. 100%. Without a doubt. So now it was like pitbull mentality. It was no longer, we just want to be respected, it was more like, “Uh-uh, y’all not gonna do this to us, make us look crazy out here, no.”

Andrew Barber

And so that album [Resurrection] happens. “I Used to Love H.E.R.” Looking back it’s a classic album, undisputed, but at the time when it dropped how did you feel it was received? Were you disappointed? Because I read somewhere it sold like 2,000 copies in the first week. I don’t know if that’s true or not but.

No I.D.

Yeah, that’s true. At that point I don’t even know that we even were conscious of first week sales like that. I think we were still just more like, “Oh man, we’re getting good reviews. Oh man, certain people are calling us up saying they like it, people that we respect.” I think that was probably more important to us, because again I don’t think we had any concept of... Puff and Big hadn’t threw the rollies in the sky just yet.

Andrew Barber

It wasn’t quite there yet.

No I.D.

Yeah, the Cristal didn’t really... it wasn’t in our club as a purchasable option.

Andrew Barber

It was still about respect, having skills, having dope beats, being able to find the obscure samples, having the best beats, having the best run. That’s what it was then.

No I.D.

Yeah. It was just a different time period, that’s what I’m also trying to say. Not making light of any of the eras. I hadn’t even looked at myself as a producer. I look at us like a group, like Gangstarr or whatever, Pete Rock and CL Smooth. We just wanted to be accepted and appreciated.

Andrew Barber

And once that happens, what was the climate like in the city? So you come back home, you come back to Chicago, how were you guys treated when you come back? Because I feel like now there’s a scene happening.

No I.D.

Yeah, and then across town you got Crucial Conflict and Do or Die, and Twista, they’re selling records. We’re like, “Hey, woah.”

Andrew Barber

We’ve never talked about this and this is something I’ve always wanted to ask you.

No I.D.

No, that’s good. We never talked…

Andrew Barber

Yeah, we haven’t talked about this before.

No I.D.

Alright, good. Let’s go.

Andrew Barber

We’re not just going through the motions.

No I.D.

Let’s go.

Andrew Barber

So, what is that like? You have this critically acclaimed album, everybody loves it, the video’s getting heavy rotation, Rap City, everybody loves “I Used To Love H.E.R,” the “Resurrection” video’s crazy. But then you come back to Chicago and it’s like, OK well we’re not selling a ton of records. But across town, even though Traxster is from the south side he’s producing for Do or Die who have a smash hit with “Po Pimp.” They rebrand Twista from a gimmick rapper to OK, this dude’s for real and then you got Crucial Conflict. They’re going gold and platinum.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

What are you feeling?

No I.D.

I think it was such an artistically different expression that we had not accepted that as a competition. We kind of just looked at it like, “Oh wow, that can happen,” more than, “Wait a minute, why is that happening?” The funny thing is, I joke with Traxster about how it was this unspoken tension between us for years and it wasn’t until we weren’t in Chicago that we were like, “Hey man, hey. What’s up?”

Andrew Barber

The No I.D. versus Traxster stuff. I remember that.

No I.D.

Yeah. It wasn’t something that really bothered us. It wasn’t something that really… had it been the type of music we were making and it was doing those numbers, we probably would’ve felt a way. But I think we just looked at it like, “Oh OK.”

Andrew Barber

It was such a different sound.

No I.D.

Yeah, it was more like, “Wow that’s possible for someone here.” And I think that’s what you get going into One Day It’ll All Make Sense and it’s like, “OK, let’s expand. Let’s work with Erykah Badu, let’s work with Lauryn Hill, let’s work with Cee Lo, let’s work with The Roots, let’s work with… It was no longer about let’s just go in the basement and make some music. Now it’s like let’s try and win. Not just be credible.

Andrew Barber

Right. Then that’s when the commercial aspirations began.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

But nothing was a super reach.

No I.D.

No. It was still within the wheelhouse.

Andrew Barber

Yeah, right.

No I.D.

That’s what I mean. It wasn’t like we were like, “Oh man, we’ve got to make some like so and so.”

Andrew Barber

You didn’t do a G-funk album or something like that.

No I.D.

No, no, no, no. No, no, no. But we didn’t... Again, we’re still talking about some young south side kids who stumbled upon this music and are experimenting in every possible way, trying to hold onto something for artistic purposes as well as to keep making a living, because a lot of the money we made was just touring, it wasn’t like big money yet. Never.

Andrew Barber

Despite what people see on TV, they’re like, “Oh man, these guys are rap stars now.”

No I.D.

Yeah, man. Those three albums, I never made over $5000 a beat. For me.

Andrew Barber

That’s just what it was.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

There was a lot more money in the industry back then.

No I.D.

There’s people who start out right now get offended.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

If you tell them 2000 they’re like, “What?”

Andrew Barber

That have never had a placement.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

It’s crazy. One of the things that I remember about the One Day It’ll All Make Sense era is that at the same time they were marketing that album they were marketing your album.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

Could we play something? Could we play something from that?

No I.D.

Really?

Andrew Barber

You don’t want me to?

No I.D.

Go ahead.

Andrew Barber

OK. I’ve got to give them a number. These aren’t notes. Can we play... I guess they are notes. Let’s play number four.

No I.D.

What’s number four?

Andrew Barber

“State 2 State.”

(music: No I.D. – “State 2 State” / applause)

Alright. Do you want to run it back?

Audience Member

Yessir!

No I.D.

Stop that.

Andrew Barber

You can’t... You really can’t ... It’s not on streaming.

No I.D.

We’re here... This is a conversation with No I.D.

Andrew Barber

We may not play any more music.

No I.D.

This is not a concert.

Andrew Barber

That’s right. But interesting about that album, you can’t find it on streaming.

No I.D.

Uh-uh. Yeah, so watch this. This is what happened. In the process of doing maybe… coming out of the first album there was this A&R, Peter King, that worked at Relativity that we did the deal with. I go to him one day because I’m just thinking like that, “So what are you looking for?” He’s describing it and I go, “Cool.” I go, make a demo. And this was all part of me going like... Again, I used to just be able to do it so I didn’t... I was like, “Man, I’ma make a couple extra dollars, be the third guy in the crew, whatever.” And I just go make a demo, six songs in like two days, and he gives me a record deal.

Andrew Barber

That easy?

No I.D.

That easy. Then Resurrection works, which really puts me in the place of like, “Why am I doing that?” I think this is working now, I don’t have to divide my time. I stopped working on it, I didn’t even work on it. I had this budget sitting there and after Resurrection works Peter comes to me and he was like, “Hey man, what are you doing? I gave you... Where’s the record?”

Andrew Barber

Where’s the album? I gave you a budget.

No I.D.

I’m like, “Ah man, I’ve got to make it.” I literally took my budget...

Andrew Barber

It’s amazing that you still have it.

No I.D.

Bought a house, built a studio in the house.

Andrew Barber

Built a studio, literally built it, like didn’t hire anybody?

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Hammer and nails.

No I.D.

Bought the equipment, put it in there. Got with Dug Infinite.

Andrew Barber

Shout out to Dug, yeah.

No I.D.

Shout out to Dug Infinite. And made a record in the basement. Engineered it, mixed it, recorded it.

Andrew Barber

Everything.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

It was very cheap to make for you.

No I.D.

Because at this point I was like, “Well how am I going... This is a budget. I want the money.”

Andrew Barber

Right. Keep the budget for yourself.

No I.D.

Yeah, I’m like...

Andrew Barber

Keep the overhead low.

No I.D.

I’m like, I’m going to end up with a house and a studio, I can do something with that. If I just end up with a record... I’ve seen it, it may not mean a thing. I think what happened with that album, going back to why you say you can’t hear it, is I remember going into the company one day and talking to the higher-ups and they’re like, “Yeah, you know man Diddy is killing it right now, man. We need...”

Andrew Barber

This is ‘97.

No I.D.

Yeah. Now it’s like...

Andrew Barber

This is Diddy era.

No I.D.

Now the pressure is on. I’m like, “You know what? I quit.”

Andrew Barber

Before the album drops?

No I.D.

I quit.

Andrew Barber

You filmed the one video.

No I.D.

I said, “I’m going to shoot one video, I’m going to do two shows, that’s it.”

Andrew Barber

You did not promote the album at all?

No I.D.

No.

Andrew Barber

Wow.

No I.D.

I was like, “That’s it.”

Andrew Barber

Never to be a rapper again.

No I.D.

No. I made the decision right there like, “No, y’all are not going to make me not...” I’m me. I’m not going to be that. You’re not going to make me want to be something I’m not. I didn’t even feel comfortable being that guy that you’re talking to me about.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

Shout out to Puff. I love him, brother of mine, but anybody that knows me, my personality just wasn’t even built for that era.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

I immediately was like, “This is...”

Andrew Barber

That was the heart of the shiny suit era, the pinnacle of that.

No I.D.

You said that, I didn’t say that.

Andrew Barber

It’s fine. They can come for me, it’s no big deal. I was a fan of the jiggy era, I have no shame in that, but that was not you.

No I.D.

Not me at all. I made that decision early and I shut the door fast.

Andrew Barber

That’s when Relativity got picked up by a major... They had a major... Were they with MCA?

No I.D.

Yeah. They had Bone Thugs-N-Harmony.

Andrew Barber

They had some real money at that point.

No I.D.

Yeah. Things had just taken a whole ’nother turn.

Andrew Barber

There’s more money in rap than ever.

No I.D.

Yes. I’m looking at it now and I’m going, “Alright, I’ve got to recalibrate and figure this out.”

Andrew Barber

At the same time... Because I just remember there was a very dope dual marketing campaign for your album and Common’s One Day It’ll All Make Sense.

No I.D.

Mm-hmm. But that... There was tension...

Andrew Barber

That’s what I was going... Yeah.

No I.D.

That started our first tension, which all lifetime friends go through. I think that was when I started having different thoughts and ambitions and I’m like, “Man, let’s have a label together. We could sign these people. We’ve got these two girls over here, Latifah and Shawnna. This kid...”

Andrew Barber

The kid from The Syndicate.

No I.D.

“This kid Kanye over here. We’ve got...” You know, and I’m like, “We can... and then just roll and then... Man, we could be like the new Death Row.”

Andrew Barber

Let’s Dr. Dre this shit.

No I.D.

Yeah. Let’s do it. He’s like, “No.” Next thing I know he’s like, “Oh, you cut that deal for you, huh? OK.”

Andrew Barber

He was tight he didn’t get a stake, he wanted that.

No I.D

Although it looked like a cool double rollout it was tension, it was bad.

Andrew Barber

That started the initial breakup between No I.D. and Common, that first breakup.

No I.D.

I don’t even call it a breakup. That was when he was like, “Oh, I’m not the golden one.”

Andrew Barber

He was like, “Oh, you’ve been plotting to be the solo guy the whole time.”

No I.D.

“Oh, you’re going to help others and you’re... OK.” Not negatively. I think it was more of... knowing him this many years I think it was a level of insecurity, of, “Man, my brother is not 100% behind me now. What am I going to do?” Not more like I need to be ego style, more like man, I better expand. The next thing he’s like, “Yeah, I’m moving to New York.”

Andrew Barber

That was it.

No I.D.

Well, it didn’t have to be because a few things happened in that time period, I think he had the beef with [Ice] Cube and I was like, “Nah, I’m not with that.”

Andrew Barber

Is that why Pete Rock did “The Bitch In Yoo”?

No I.D.

Yeah, because I wouldn’t continue. I was like... I don’t feel the spirit of that. It felt wrong to me. It didn’t feel like it was going in the right place and I never was one to... I didn’t care about the money, I just felt like, “I don’t like the spirit of where it’s going.” That was the first time I had ever not produced for him, it was cause for an outside producer. Before it might be a remix or something, but I think that was also a strain and him being like, “Oh, I can’t count on you to do everything? OK, then I need to expand what I’m going to do too.”

Andrew Barber

So then the famous Chicago thing of you’ve got to leave to get on, so he leaves.

No I.D.

And then it’s like... I could have left too because we had left before, but I think at that point I go, “Nah, I don’t want to do that.” And then we both were like in the valley of decision, which I had to decide what I wanted to do and he had to figure out a way to keep going.

Andrew Barber

I would imagine that was very tough. You guys were young, I mean that was...

No I.D.

Yeah. Again, we’re still talking about kids. I want to say this is... What year was that?

Andrew Barber

That’s ’97.

No I.D.

We’re still in our mid-20s, we don’t know. We just made music for some years and traveled around touring and having fun. I think that was my first time where I was like, “OK, what is my career? It’s not just producing with Common.” I don’t know what that means. I don’t even know how to... I had to literally take a step back, but luckily I had a house, a studio. I had some things...

Andrew Barber

Some artists that you were... You were getting calls from other artists to produce for them too, right?

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

You were turning them down at the...

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Who were some of those artists?

No I.D.

I mean just like... People would be like, “B.I.G wants some beats.” I’d be like, “Nah, I’m Common’s guy, I don’t...” Ghostface wants some beats, have you heard this and that?” I’m like, “Nah, I don’t...” Later I’m like...

Andrew Barber

What? I passed on giving Biggie a beat?

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

But you’re a loyal guy.

No I.D.

But no, you’ve got to look at the... Nobody did that back then. Pre-Illmatic, nobody did that.

Andrew Barber

One producer.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

One artist.

No I.D.

Either one team or one producer. It wasn’t a concept, it was like, “Huh?”

Andrew Barber

Yeah. What was that sound like? It’s not...

No I.D.

It’s not like, “Oh man, Tribe Called Quest is working on an album, let’s submit beats.” [laughter]

Andrew Barber

That was not a thing.

No I.D.

No. “Let’s submit to Pete Rock & CL Smooth?” No, it just didn’t work like that.

Andrew Barber

Couldn’t submit a beat for Doggystyle?

No I.D.

No. No, it’s Dre and his team. It wasn’t... Again, some of the stuff was... It was just... It wasn’t until it started spreading out that I was like, “Oh man, I blew it. I blew it.” But I mean luckily I had those little... I built that little nest egg, which saved my life.

Andrew Barber

Because I’m guessing you were pretty tight once Common has his first big record, once he stops working with you.

No I.D.

No, I don’t think I was...

Andrew Barber

Were you upset or happy about that?

No I.D.

I think I was indifferent. I may not have liked the fact that he now had a big budget and I didn’t. I don’t get my payday after all those years.

Andrew Barber

Like J Dilla and those guys that get the big checks for that.

No I.D.

Yeah. I’m like, “Really? You’re going to pay them, huh?”

Andrew Barber

Yeah.

No I.D.

OK. But again, in my mind it’s still like, my personality is like, it’s possible. Alright, so what do I want to do now? Because ultimately we’re responsible for ourselves, no one’s responsible for anything for us. Although you may have expectations or pain or growing pains or whatever, nobody owes us anything. I always knew that and it just inspired me to open a new chapter.

Andrew Barber

How did you start the new chapter?

No I.D.

That’s a good question. But I know you’re a historian and you know. I don’t know, what was I... OK, I think... It was... OK, I helped Syndicate get a deal. I was trying all kind of stuff. I was like, “I stopped producing rap, I’m going to do R&B.” I just started doing a bunch of R&B, which was making me grow but I started to get these little scattered placements.

Andrew Barber

Right. That’s how... I was watching from afar, you were popping up on a G-Unit album.

No I.D.

Yeah, G-Unit. Jay-Z.

Andrew Barber

Ghostface.

No I.D.

Beanie Sigel. Toni Braxton.

Andrew Barber

Yeah. You were on The Blueprint 2.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

How were you maneuvering that at the time? Did you have management? Were you...

No I.D.

In and out of different guys, experimenting. Nothing really... Just like...

Andrew Barber

Were you still in Chicago at the time?

No I.D.

I was.

Andrew Barber

How difficult was that?

No I.D.

Tough years. Tough years.

Andrew Barber

Were you flying back and forth to New York, LA with like...

No I.D.

Yeah but not really, I’m just here and I’m trying to really do it from here because I built the studio and I’ve got this studio here and I’ve got this house and I’ve got these people and I always had these aspirations to build these camps and these circles and teams and win. And I saw Trax and them did it, and they all... Although, oh man it looked like it fell apart a little but we could do it, we could do it. It wasn’t as easy as I thought.

I remember a time I sat in the basement with the keyboard player that I was working with named Shabazz, and I said, “Alright listen, here are these blank DATs...” DAT tapes. Recording tapes, digital recording tapes, and they were like 90 minutes. I was like, “We’re going to fill them all up with music. Some people are going to come, some people are going to go, some things are going to happen, some things are not going to happen, but let’s just keep filling them up. I guarantee you something is going to happen if we keep going.”

We just started doing it and we just were filling it up, filling it up. People were coming, people were going. It was almost like paint the fence, Karate Kid, wax on, wax off. From that just different things were happening. Around Resurrection I developed that relationship with hip-hop. It was at Roc-A-Fella, this was around Jay-Z’s first album. At that time, no big deal it was just... He wasn’t the biggest rapper.

Andrew Barber

Building a rapport with other industry people.

No I.D.

Oh, of course. I just started meeting different camps and I would go in and out. I was supposed to be involved in the Roc-A-Fella thing with the Blueprint [agency] and all of that. I think it was really just... I didn’t like the paperwork.

Andrew Barber

It just kind of scared... You felt maybe you had been burned in the past and...

No I.D.

I worked all these years, man I want my money now. I want my money.

Andrew Barber

Right. No more scraps.

No I.D.

Yeah. No, no. I remember clearly it was like me, Bink, Just [Blaze] and Kanye. Me and Bink were like, “We don’t like this business.” Because really if you go back and if you look at the back of Beanie’s album, all of us; it says produced by all of us for Roc the World.

Andrew Barber

Right. Yeah, for The Reason album.

No I.D.

Mm-hmm. That was what the team was going to be.

Andrew Barber

Roc-A-Fella was trying to keep you guys as like a… make you guys...

No I.D.

Gee Roberson and hip-hop.

Andrew Barber

The crew was going to be called what?

No I.D.

Roc the World.

Andrew Barber

Wow. I didn’t even know that. You got me.

No I.D.

Ah, that’s something.

Andrew Barber

You got me.

No I.D.

I think we all looked at the paperwork and Justin and Ye were like, “We don’t care, whatever.”

Andrew Barber

They were like, “Whatever, we’re going. We’re in.”

No I.D.

We’re down.

Andrew Barber

They’re a lot younger and more inexperienced.

No I.D.

Whatever. I think we were like, “No.” It was funny because there were certain people back after that happened that was like, “Oh man, you blew it. It’s over. You blew it. You’re a dummy.”

Andrew Barber

Because Roc-A-Fella just explodes at that point.

No I.D.

Explodes.

Andrew Barber

Hottest label in the world.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

You’re in Chicago like, “I could have been a part of that.”

No I.D.

Yeah, but at this point I had stubborn pride, I’m like, “Nope.”

Andrew Barber

I mean that ...

No I.D.

Too many years now. Too much blood, sweat and tears. I’m like, “Nah, I don’t want to just be cool and accept it. I did that.”

Andrew Barber

So then your understudy or your mentee, Kanye, goes the route, blows up.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

You probably... I don’t know if you expected that to happen

No I.D.

Of course not. Of course not. I would be a liar.

Andrew Barber

That’s what I... You probably thought...

No I.D.

Anybody that ever says that is a liar. I was there. I saw every... I know. Even if you thought he was going to win, nobody could have predicted that.

Andrew Barber

He’s going to be one of the biggest stars on the planet at one point.

No I.D.

Come on. Hey Dion, your mother knows his mother. She helps out the little kid. He’s going to be the biggest... No.

Andrew Barber

He’s just coming to your house knocking on your door bothering you. You’re doing grown-up stuff and he’s just...

No I.D.

I’m like, “Come on man take these records, sample them, please. Go home.”

Andrew Barber

You’re having him find samples for you, basically.

No I.D.

No, I’m just like, “This is how you do beats. Go home and do this. Stop. Get out of my door. I’ve got grown folk stuff to deal with, do you understand what’s going on?”

Andrew Barber

Yeah. Get out.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

And then boom, College Dropout explodes, Kanye becomes one of the biggest rappers.

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

You’re watching that, you’re probably like, “What the ...”

No I.D.

No, now I’m just going like...

Andrew Barber

Who knows, right? The whole thing is a gamble.

No I.D.

Anything’s possible now. Everything is possible. Now I’m like, “Oh man, I could fly to the moon if I want to.”

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

Anything is possible. This kid that I ...

Andrew Barber

It’s beyond disbelief I’m sure at this point.

No I.D.

Yeah. No, now it’s like... Because you’ve got to understand again my personality is when it happens I go... I don’t go like, “I should have...” People don’t know this, I was his manager early. I took him to meetings with labels and all kind of stuff. It wasn’t just... I wasn’t trying to be a mentor.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

That wasn’t a concept.

Andrew Barber

He’s probably acting wild in meetings and you’re just like, “Oh, man. They’re never going to let me back in here.”

No I.D.

Yeah. I remember we left one meeting with Columbia, and here’s the irony. He was like, He told Don Ienner, “I’m going to be the next Michael Jackson.” We were just like [drops head / laughter] Everybody. They were like, “OK, so have a good day.”

Andrew Barber

Never call us again.

No I.D.

Yeah. Came in the limo, left in the taxi. I remember I got home and I was playing a video game with Peter Kang because we were co-managers of him at the time and I go, “I don’t think I should manage you, man. I just don’t think it’ll work.”

Andrew Barber

He was devastated.

No I.D.

Again, this is back to the same thing, I’m like, I go... I’m the guy that was like, “I shouldn’t rap.” I’m a realist. It wasn’t about what I could make off of him, I was like, “Man, I don’t really think I can handle...”

Andrew Barber

Just your personality.

No I.D.

Yeah. I’d go crazy. I’d rather just help you and get nothing. I think that’s what preserved our relationship over those years is that I never really asked for anything.

Andrew Barber

You weren’t in his pockets, you didn’t try to sign him to a production deal or something like that.

No I.D.

No, I just helped. When it happened it was more like, “Aha! Ha! OK.” More space to conquer. More possibilities. Less judgment of people I meet. Immediately I threw out the window right now, I never know who I’m talking to could be the next biggest thing in the world.

Andrew Barber

That’s a lesson to learn. You don’t know who is going to be what.

No I.D.

Yeah. They put my ego in check. It brought me to a more humble place of respecting each and every person for their potential, even when you don’t see it because you never know. You can’t measure yourself in a way to compare with anyone, you just have to measure yourself to decide where you want to go, not versus anyone because... The hardest thing about, and anybody... I liken this to a Chicago trait but it might just be a human trait, but I’ve really experienced it more here. But it might just be because I’m from here. The hardest thing really was never about the success or the lack of success of my peers, it was always the other people. This is how the other people go, “Hey man, your man’s doing real good, man.”

Andrew Barber

Right. They’re in your ear, making you feel like you’ve...

No I.D.

“He call you lately man?” “Why? What are you talking about?” “I’m just saying man, you know he’s right here with you man, now he’s doing that man and you’re... Man, the least he could do is...”

Andrew Barber

That’s the worst thing. That’s the worst part. They’re making it worse. You’re probably on the…

No I.D.

I’m like, “Hey man, I’m going at my pace. It’s okay.” “I’m just saying man, he already over there man. He ain’t called you back man?” “Hey man, relax. I’m okay.” Being able to deal with that because I watch a lot of people not be able to deal with that, I don’t mean just in music, I mean in life, which is being able to accept your pace in life and not compare it to the other pace of people you know, people you don’t know, and allowing it to energize you versus discourage you is a big part of the reason I have a career, and that I can sit in front of you and talk. It’s not that I’m really that smart or that creative genius and all those things that we toss around, and I absolutely don’t accept for myself, but I actually just believe that I know how to curtail the negative part that can emerge.

Andrew Barber

Because that’s what can mess you up, that’s what can derail you.

No I.D.

Yeah. No, that’s really why a lot of people have spikes. They do good and they don’t, because the pressure of all these things, if you don’t have the right character you’ll implode, and you’ll be unable to restart humbly and reinvent and grow when necessary. I do it all the time. I never created anything in my life sitting down thinking, “How amazing am I?”

Andrew Barber

Right. Not that ego.

No I.D.

No, I just sit down and go... I’m a 17-year-old at heart still trying to make music that people like and it’s a new group of people. They may not know me and they might not care what I did. We might be talking about things right now that somebody’s like, “I don’t even care about that part of the story. Move on to the important stuff. How can I get a deal?”

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

What’s the secret recipe? It’s character and it’s education because throughout all these times the part I’m leaving out is, I’m actually meeting people and I’m learning. And I’m really putting pressure on myself to elevate my level of education to the point today when I go seek out mentorship with Quincy and Stevie and the people that worked with them, because I feel like we have all this information with these giants and our generation does not take those jewels, and we don’t pass those jewels on, and they get lost and we see our greats pass on. We treat them bad until they die and then we celebrate and we play all the records and we cry and...

Andrew Barber

Streams go up a million percent.

No I.D.

Yeah, but they’re right here.

Andrew Barber

They won’t be forever.

No I.D.

And they won’t, and they will gladly tell us three-fourths of what we don’t know and what we’re trying to figure out. Having a level of humility can allow you to access that information and prolong your stay and what you do no matter what you do. I don’t care what you do.

Andrew Barber

What would you credit... After all that happens, and I can fast-forward a little bit. You’re back in the game big, you’re getting these major placements, you’re producing “D.O.A.” for Jay-Z. You...

No I.D.

I’ll do the short version. I humble myself, I sit at home, I’m sitting there too long, “Man, this ain’t working. Why...” Man, I know Jermaine Dupri, why is Jermaine Dupri better than me? I’m going to humble myself and say, “Hey, JD I’m coming down to work with you. Let’s work together.” “Why do you want to work with me?” “Because I just want to work, I want to learn.”

Andrew Barber

That was... Why did you call Jermaine Dupri?

No I.D.

Because I’m just educating myself and you obviously know something I don’t know.

Andrew Barber

He has all these hits, I mean he’s...

No I.D.

“You’re killing.”

Andrew Barber

Did you go down there like Usher Confessions time?

No I.D.

It was right after.

Andrew Barber

OK. He’s got the... He’s the...

No I.D.

He’s got the sauce.

Andrew Barber

If you guys don’t remember, that’s a 10 million sell, that’s a diamond album.

No I.D.

Yeah. I’m like, “Man, I don’t even know what’s going on. I’ve got to see.”

Andrew Barber

He’s doing Mariah, he’s doing... You’re down there watching this all happen.

No I.D.

All of them. Nelly, Mariah, Usher, Bow Wow. I’m like, “Man, y’all just killing.” I’m like, “Man, I know I’m good, I should be able to...”

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

I’m looking in the mirror trying to figure this out. I just say, “Man, hey I want to work with you.” He’s like... But I knew that I had more “respect” and he had more money... success. Let’s not call it money. Success.

Andrew Barber

He had money, he had hits.

No I.D.

We talked about it.

Andrew Barber

He had respect on the charts.

No I.D.

I felt it was a trade. I was like, “I’ve got some sauce, you’ve got some. Let’s see what happens.” That’s where I learned how to make big records. I made the Bow Wow record, I made a couple of other... I produced a record for Plies.

Andrew Barber

I like that song.

No I.D.

I’m just saying, I humbled myself. You guys don’t even know, I was humbling myself. I was like... To get everything, empty your cup.

Andrew Barber

How hard was that?

No I.D.

How hard?

Andrew Barber

For you to ...

No I.D.

It was hard. Because when you’ve got respect, doing a certain thing, the last thing you want to do is risk that currency.

Andrew Barber

Right. ‘Cause you can’t get it back.

No I.D.

Yeah, the last thing I want is Pete Rock to be like, “Ha ha ha.” [laughter]

Andrew Barber

“You tried to sell out, and you bricked.”

No I.D.

Yeah. You know, it’s like, “Naw, man, I gotta...” but I was trying to expand it, because you know what it really was? I saw Puff and D.DOT [Deric Angelettie] expand Kanye.

Andrew Barber

They took his sound and...

No I.D.

Well I saw him, he got a piece from me, and then I saw him mix it with a piece, and then Jay, and then I saw a bunch of pieces that equaled something else, right? And I was like, “What?” Again, I don’t go... I don’t have that ego, I go, “I’m gonna make some pieces,” right? What’s some other pieces that nobody’s paying attention to, right?

Andrew Barber

So let me go to JD, who has the sauce, but OK, I see what you did.

No I.D.

You see what I mean?

Andrew Barber

Yeah, yeah.

No I.D.

I’m like, that’s a whole other world, I go there…

Andrew Barber

It was untapped.

No I.D.

And the first thing, he’s like, “Let’s go to the strip club.” I’m like, “Strip club? I’ve never been in a strip club in my life, why would I go to a strip club? I’m over here trying to make music.” And then I go in there, and it’s like a club with a few naked people. And I’m like, “This is different.” [laughter]

Andrew Barber

So you just got immersed in the Atlanta culture? You got to see…

No I.D.

And I’m like, “Oh, OK, I get y’all records now. I understand. Y’all go to the club and it’s naked people walking around, OK. And that’ll just dance with you for a couple dollars.” I’m like, “This is okay. I get what you’re saying in these records now.”

Andrew Barber

And this is why it’s working here, and not working in Chicago?

No I.D.

Yeah, ‘cause you know, some of the records might sound like soliciting a prostitute, right? Now, I’m like, “No, oh…”

Andrew Barber

I get it.

No I.D.

Club. Throw some dollars at you. Got it. Oh that’s the dance you all do in the club. Oh, got it. [laughter]

Andrew Barber

So you take this information, and I can just see, everything’s turning in your brain. Next thing you know, you get a couple placements on Jay-Z, American Gangster album.

No I.D.

Yes. Which was... I’d already worked with Jay, I already went through the Roc the World, da da da da da, and he’s like, “Let’s go work with Jay.” ‘Cause now he knows my currency is…

Andrew Barber

He can walk you in that.

No I.D.

Yeah. He called me in, and then it’s like, “Aw yeah, this is my...” now I’m blindfold, this is what I do, right? And that’s when we did the two things for American Gangster. And I think that’s when I began to round out my proper perspective of how much underground hip-hop or cultural hip-hop, south side hip-hop, Common, this, that, mix it with my newborn southern R&B hit information. And codes, as me and Kanye call it. I was like, “I got new codes, in different area codes.” No.

Andrew Barber

But it all clicks?

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

Everything that you’ve been working towards.

No I.D.

Right.

Andrew Barber

At this point, you’re probably in your 30s, right? So it didn’t happen super young, and I think a lot of times, young people get like, “Man, if I don’t get on by the time I’m 27, I don’t have a career.”

No I.D.

I don’t know many people that got on that young, that do anything in their 30s. It’s not many.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

I don’t know many people that did… people when I started, that still actively do music, so it’s definitely not about when you get on.

Andrew Barber

It’s once you figure it out.

No I.D.

Yeah. It’s really just about your trajectory, and understanding that you don’t want to peak, you want to keep going up.

Andrew Barber

A steady incline?

No I.D.

Yes. A peak is a reason to fall, for me, in my perspective. I’ve never seen anyone hold a peak up forever. Matter of fact, the more you peak, the more you hate it.

Andrew Barber

Yeah, and the harder you fall.

No I.D.

Yes. The harder you’re pulled down.

Andrew Barber

Yeah, it’s tough to get back up after that. And you’ve... your whole career has just been a steady…

No I.D.

Yeah. I’m just the little engine that could.

Andrew Barber

So after that, you explode. In my opinion, you created the sound for 808s & Heartbreak. That is... you play a lot in that, right? I’ll say it, you don’t have to. Then everybody’s calling. Then, you make your transition…

No I.D.

Well, no, I’m gonna tie that together. Really, Kanye’s moms passed, and Malik Yusef goes “Dion, you gotta be there for him.” I go, “Do I?”

Andrew Barber

Relationship’s not…

No I.D.

It’s not bad, it’s just, he’s a superstar. I got a different personality. I don’t want to hang out, I don’t want to... you know, I’m just different. I’m just studying, I’m learning, I’m growing, you know, that environment is just not really... you know, ‘cause remember, he’s younger than me. So, when he was 14, I was 20, he was the young kid. By the time I’m 26, he’s 20. By the time he’s 26, I don’t wanna hang out like that, right? So, he’s like, “Naw, he needs you, Dion, and you know, he trusts you.” And I’m like, “You’re right,” and I literally reconnect our relationship, non-musically. We just start talking more. And one day we just saw each other, and he’s like, “Yeah, I’m about to go to Hawaii and work on some beats for Jay, you wanna come and work together?” Now mind you, I’m like, “What do you mean work together?” I’m like, “We don’t work together, we help each other,” right? But I’m like, “Cool.”

Andrew Barber

You’re not gonna turn that down.

No I.D.

So we flew out to Hawaii, and we really did work for Jay, and it turned into us creating a system that…

Andrew Barber

The Blueprint 3, you were working on that first?

No I.D.

That’s what we were working on, and it wasn’t until we made “Heartless” that he was like, “Naw, I’m doing an album.” And that was how 808s & Heartbreak came into play.

Andrew Barber

He saw the sauce you were giving Jay, and was like, “Actually...”

No I.D.

“I’m not giving him that.” I was like, “Just give it to him,” he was like, “No.” Matter of fact, I’m gonna imitate him… [moves his head, puts on voice] “Hell no!”

Andrew Barber

Yeah, he said, “I’m keeping that, that’s staying.”

No I.D.

Yeah, and the next thing you know, he’s gone touring, and Jay is like... [throws up his hands]

Andrew Barber

“You had that the whole time?”

No I.D.

He like, “What happened to my album?” And again, me having that relationship, over these years... Because mind you, I’m a Chicago person at heart, which means, and you guys will know this: It’s hard for us to become friends with people when we really don’t know them yet. So I know them, but we’re not... yeah.

And it’s funny, because fast forward, and all of that leads to eventually: He comes back, we do, finish The Blueprint, I do “Death of Auto-Tune.” And I remember, one day he’s in the garden, and he walks past me, and I don’t really say nothing, and he stops, and he goes and looks back at me, he’s like, “Man, you ain’t gonna speak?” And I was like, “Man, this your space man, I don’t know you like that, to be just walking up to you speaking. Invite me into your space.” He feel like, “Man, you been around me all these years.” “Aw man, forget it man.”

Andrew Barber

At that point you feel comfortable around Hov.

No I.D.

No.

Andrew Barber

Still not?

No I.D.

Not yet. Fast forward, it really wasn’t until 4:44 that we became friends, right.

Andrew Barber

Did you guys talk throughout those…

No I.D.

We would talk, but it was not... he’s, you know, he’s an introvert, too. You know, all of his raps…

Andrew Barber

He makes it seem like he’s a big extrovert?

No I.D.

Yeah, fake hugs, fake wassups. All of that. He not opening up, right? And I’m not opening up. So, sort of the funny part is during the 4:44 sessions one day, he come like, “Man, you like a good guy, man.”

Andrew Barber

You’re like, “Thanks, it only took you ten years.”

No I.D.

I was like, “You are too, man. I had no idea.” He’s like, “I thought you was rude.” I was like, “Why would you think I’m rude?” He’s like, “‘Cause you would never speak. You would just come in my studio, you don’t say nothing.” I was like, “I was being respectful.”

Andrew Barber

Wow.

No I.D.

Alright, now we gotta rewind back.

Andrew Barber

So that’s how you earned your respect with Jay-Z? Being humble?

No I.D.

I don’t know, that’s how we became friends. Because now we’re friends. And I don’t even use that... it’s not like I got a lot of friends in the business.

Andrew Barber

And that’s why 4:44 turned out the way it did?

No I.D.

Yes.

Andrew Barber

You had a real bond, relationship?

No I.D.

Yes. And we knew how to deal with each other in a way that brought the best out of each other, not just musically, but just enjoying everyday, it was really fun and therapeutic.

Andrew Barber

He was probably looking for somebody like that, right?

No I.D.

I don’t know that he was looking for it.

Andrew Barber

How did that even come about? How did he even breach the, “Hey let’s do an album together, where it’s just me and you”?

No I.D.

We never said that.

Andrew Barber

Nothing.

No I.D.

It was never a conversation. He would see me, and true story, he would be like... I’ll tell some of the funny ones. One time I saw him at the... ‘cause it’ll lead into some more things on your list. He saw me at the Tidal thing, right? He’s like, “Man, where the butters at?” I’m like, “Huh?” He’s like, “The beats, man, where the butters, man, wassup? Man, where the beats?”

Andrew Barber

That’s just what he said? He just casually rolled up on you?

No I.D.

I’m like, “Man, you know I got this job now.” He’s like, “Job? Did you just say job?” I’m like, “What you mean, yeah.” At the time I’m like, “Man, I got this Def Jam thing.” He’s like, “Man, god didn’t make you to work no job.” I’m like [drops mic / laughter] “You know, god made you to make music, man. You can’t never tell me you didn’t make music ’cause of a job.” I’m like [shrinks space with fingers] And every time we would see each other, it would be another something. Next time. Fast forward another time, he saw me, like, “What you working on?” And I was like, “Getting better.” And he’s like, “What you mean?” “I’m working on getting better, that’s what I’m working on.” He’s like, “You ain’t got no beats?” I said, “No, I’m working on getting better, man. At beats. And life.”

Andrew Barber

And this job.

No I.D.

Yeah, no I didn’t bring the job up ever again.

Andrew Barber

Ever again, that was the last... that was the last time you discuss the J-O-B.

No I.D.

Yeah.

Andrew Barber

Fair.

No I.D.

And all that led to one day, when I did this thing, I made 100 beats, I was trying to wax on wax off again. Made 500 beats. “Eureka, I think I got a new style.” I hit him. No, he hits me. “Hey man, I need you to help me with this Vic Mensa.” And I go, “And I got some beats now.”

Andrew Barber

By the way.

No I.D.

And he’s like, “Hell yeah? Okay.” And I’m like, “Nah man, I got some beats this time.” He’s like, “Yeah, for sure, let’s, you know.”

Andrew Barber

“Let’s link up.”

No I.D.

Yeah, and I’m like, “Stop playing. I got some beats.”

Andrew Barber

This is on email?

No I.D.

No, I got the emails, too.

Andrew Barber

So this is all…

No I.D.

I was like, “I really got your next Blueprint-esque thing. I know that’s a lot to say, but I think I got it.” He’s like, “Yeah, that’s a lot to say.”

Andrew Barber

You had his attention, his ears were standing up at this point.

No I.D.

No, I didn’t have his... I just... he don’t care. He don’t care. So, we meet up, and I tear his ears off with beats, and he’s like, “Man, don’t disappear man.” But I was like, “No man, you don’t understand.” So I just start emailing him beats everyday.

Andrew Barber

Just packs, everyday?

No I.D.

Just three to five, every day. Until the “Kill Jay-Z” beat, then he was like, “Come over right now.”

Andrew Barber

That hit him?

No I.D.

“Come over to my house, right now.” Yeah, that was the one that... and then, it just turned into talk. It really wasn’t, it was more like, “Oh, we laid down a good song.” And then we just started talking, but everyday, I would just keep emailing these beats. And I was like, “I’m not gonna let up.” We joked like this, I was like, “Man, I’m gonna outwork you man, you lazy. You ain’t about this, I’m about this. I do music. I don’t know, you might not do music no more.” We talk crazy to each other.

Andrew Barber

You have that kind of rapport with Jay…

No I.D.

I just said to him last week, I was like, “You still doing music, man?” He’s like, “Oh yeah? OK. No, I get it, I know what you’re saying. I’m glad you said that.”

Andrew Barber

So what started off as a Vic Mensa project now becomes 4:44.

No I.D.

Yeah, and of course, Vic’s like, “What?!” [laughter] He was like, “Yo, c’mon man!”

Andrew Barber

See, right place right time with you, you gotta be right there. But that’s revenge for, you know, when you did the ‘Ye thing, 808s, so he got what he wanted.

No I.D.

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

Andrew Barber

What about, could you guys do more? Is there more coming, you think?

No I.D.

Who?

Andrew Barber

You and Jay? Who knows?

No I.D.

Just gotta happen. You know. When you get in that friend zone, you don’t look at it like that.

Andrew Barber

It’s different? The relationship’s different now?

No I.D.

Yeah, it’s just like... sometimes we do silly stuff, like just talk, sit on the grass and talk. [laughter]

Andrew Barber

So it’s a real friendship now?

No I.D.

Rich people stuff. [laughs]

Andrew Barber

Yeah, rich people stuff. I wouldn’t know about that. So, he doesn’t ask you about the job anymore?

No I.D.

Definitely, he doesn’t ask.

Andrew Barber

He doesn’t ask you about it?

No I.D.

No. I mean, at one point I was gonna... we had discussed me being at Roc Nation one time, but I think we got bigger views now, that we share, of goals we want to accomplish.

Andrew Barber

And speaking of job, I know the clock is ticking, we’re running out of time here, but I want to talk about you transitioning into an executive. How difficult was that? Or is that something that you always wanted to do? Or is that something that it just happened?

No I.D.

Absolutely never wanted to do it. No ambitions whatsoever. It literally was just because one day, in Hawaii, this is [My Beautiful]Dark Twisted Fantasy time, probably. Kanye goes, “G.O.O.D Music is over, if you don’t become the president, I’m distancing myself from this.” And I go...

Andrew Barber

“Well, I guess I can’t say no.”

No I.D.

I gotta say yes. So, with it being somewhat of a dysfunctional setup, I quickly saw that I could be deemed a failure. I don’t like failing. I construct a plan in my mind, I’m like, “I gotta make one thing work.” And again, here comes that little Malik Yusef voice. He’s like, “Big Sean is good, man. You should help Big Sean.”

Andrew Barber

Got to love the voice of reason, Malik Yusef.

No I.D.

Yeah, I’m like, “You think so? Yeah, he is good, right? Yeah.” So I just go grab him, I take him to L.A.

Andrew Barber

He was just kind of sitting there at the time?

No I.D.

No, it was about to be donesies.

Andrew Barber

Bad?

No I.D.

Yeah. So, that was four or five years he was…

Andrew Barber

He was just sitting there?

No I.D.

Yeah, he put out projects. You gotta remember, he had all the looks.

Andrew Barber

So many mixtapes, features.

No I.D.

Yeah, he had looks. So, I just, I grabbed him, we put together the project, and then I just turned it in, and everybody’s like, “What the hell just happened with this?” So, at the time…

Andrew Barber

You made a power move.

No I.D.

Yeah, so at Def Jam, they was like, “Man, if we hire you, can you just keep doing that?” And I was like, “Yeah. I can do that.”

Andrew Barber

That was from an A&R standpoint, right? They were like, “Can you just A&R,” or produce? What was…

No I.D.

Just whatever. Whatever you want to call it.

Andrew Barber

“We just want you.”

No I.D.

“We just want you to do that, again.” And I was like, “Cool.” But then L.A. Reid leaves, he goes to Epic. So he’s like, “Come to Epic.” And then Karen Clark is like, “No, come to...” And it led to me doing it. Now, once I got in there, and I started to look under the hood, I go, “Aha.” And I felt like, and I told Jay this before, I was like, “I get what you saw. You went in there and saw it, and now you’re you. I just saw it.” But, I also felt an obligation to now educate myself, and put my 10,000 hours in. So again, I go back to humble myself, and go through the process. I think I’m about 10,000 hours right now, on the exec side, now.

Andrew Barber

I would say so, yeah.

No I.D.

Yeah. So now, I think I’m armed and ready, because you know, I get it, you gotta remember, I started out when it was all indies, and then I watched the majors kill it, and then I watched the youth demand independence again. And I go, “We had it in the first place.”

Andrew Barber

And nobody wanted it, everybody wanted…

No I.D.

Nobody wanted it. And now, we want it. And I always go, “Alright, it’s cold outside. Be careful what you ask for.” You know? I always... I liken being independent to having your own tree house in the forest. It’s yours. But there’s ants. And rain.

Andrew Barber

There’s a lot of weather.

No I.D.

And no toilets. So be prepared. But, these majors are like mansions, that maybe there’s a little mold on the wall. Maybe the pipe’s not right. But somebody gotta go in there and fix it. Or, we put the tree house in the mansion. But I don’t wanna be in the forest. I’m not falling for that. It’s too much... I want to control something and make it better, it can serve us better, with minds that’s been on both sides of it, that understand 10,000 hours there, 10,000 hours there.

So, it went from me doing something just because I could do it, to me actually seeing a purpose, and sticking in throughout all the corporate politics, and all the non-musical things I have to endure, to say, as a creative, cultural, minority, that’s qualified, “I’m not gonna be denied the opportunity to take one of these ships and turn it in the direction we need it to go.” And I’m just not gonna stop.

Andrew Barber

And how difficult is that?

No I.D.

Yeah. It’s difficult, because now you’re putting yourself at odds with people who are like, “We don’t want it to go that way.”

Andrew Barber

’Cause they’re stuck…

No I.D.

And by the way, they make their living with it going that way. But, I don’t care. And, I never needed a job anyway. So I got nothing to lose.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

Fire me. But, I do think as long as you know, we make great records, find great talent, it’s the core of our business, and have great relationships, educate ourselves, you can’t be denied. It’s a Kanye trick.

Andrew Barber

Something that you learned from him?

No I.D.

I learned from watching him. Can’t be denied when you qualify yourself.

Andrew Barber

That’s the soundbite. So, you know, to bring it back full circle, before we wrap it up and get into the Q&A, you know, as a pillar of the Chicago hip-hop community, you’ve seen it, you were in it, watched it, now you’re able to kind of see it from afar and help nurture things. Are you happy with how the scene has gone, how it’s turned out? You know, kind of the seeds that you’ve planted?

No I.D.

Of course, ’cause it was nothing. But, I hope to see more. From the standpoint of doing my history, I understand that Quincy was here, and Curtis Mayfield was here, and a lot of big companies were here. I would love to see us build out the business better. And not just be so creative. I think it’s gonna take some education, more than talent. And that’s what I mean by some of these... a company has to invest in that, with a different business model. Understanding the long term gain. I think that the part that I get disheartened by here is that... the economic culture of the city causes a level of desperation that makes... it’s like pressure, and fear, that causes you to not think as you would if you were just in a state of calm. And I see a lot of mistakes that we make, that I wish we didn’t make. Because you know, a lot of... the quicker we do that, and turn this resource around, and create opportunity, it’s gonna create less violence, it’s gonna create more growth. And it can’t come from one person. It can’t come from one of us, it’s actually gotta come... Of course, we’ve seen the growth. I mean, look at Chance [the Rapper] , and different people. I’m happy, I just... I guess I’m anxious to see it really come together.

Andrew Barber

Can it be duplicated? Can it be scaled?

No I.D.

And what we call it in the corporate world, scalable.

Andrew Barber

Right.

No I.D.

Can we scale this? Or is it good for one? Or two? Or five? I want to see it good for 50, and then 500, and then 5,000, right? And that’s not just the entertainer, that’s the engineer, the studio owner, the promoter, the…

Andrew Barber

The manager, I mean everything. The studio owner, everything.

No I.D.

Everybody. Create an economic cottage, right? And everybody has what they need in the cottage, and you start to trade services, and you start to bring income in, and build. Because that’s the last thing that... I just would love to see us build more. And you know, to think, we just went over, my first record came out in ’92.

Andrew Barber

Right. Do you think it’s improved, since ’92? If you’re looking at…

No I.D.

Oh, I’m just getting good. I’m just getting good. I’m just now understanding what being a producer means. Beyond making music. Quincy Jones never gave Michael Jackson a beat. It’s just not about that. It’s something else. And I’m learning. And I’m gonna be able to apply this information to anything. But more than anything, I want to be able to apply it to other people, who can multiply it, right? Because I know I can only do so much. I already had to trudge through this thing when it was nothing, you know? My knees get tired. I needed to build 10 me’s, and then 10 me’s make…

Andrew Barber

But you know if you can duplicate that, because you learned so much having to sludge through all that stuff.

No I.D.

Absolutely.

Andrew Barber

You have the knowledge that you can pass on to make it…

No I.D.

And I’m trying to get the knowledge that didn’t get passed on to me. And that is more important than me being the one to go build it and put my name on it, stick my chest out, say, “Look at me.” It’s more about just creating the next opportunities for... that it’ll be 20 Chances. So, you know, of course I tip my hat to everybody here that’s doing great. I mean, again, I told you, I’m humbled by everybody, because I don’t really see myself as nothing except a smart guy that got out the trap.

Andrew Barber

You’ve continued to progress, and had an amazing career. And you know, that’s why we’re here tonight. So thank you so much.

No I.D.

Thank you. [applause]