ToteKing

Serko Fu

Let’s welcome my brother ToteKing [applause]. It’s a pleasure to have you here. I know many know you through your music, your work with your group, your many records, I think you’re one of the most prolific writers in Spain. But for those who don’t know you, tell them a little.

Toteking

OK, brother. Hello, everyone! If I can go backwards in time, the first thing that comes to mind is La Alta Escuela. But as we’re talking about beginnings and how everything started, I’ll reveal some things about who introduced me to rap, because it wasn’t La Alta Escuela. I was a metal head from Seville, a guy who listened to rock, with my long hair. And perhaps in 1993 or ’94 Rage Against the Machine released their album, their first LP. And so I saw that those two worlds, metal and rap, could be combined and co-exist. And in a good way. Up until that album, I’d never heard rap. The only connection I had to rap was what I heard from a guy, called Paco Carreño, who’s my buddy since forever, and was a neighbor of mine. I saw that guy wearing Jordans, with shaved legs. I remember those details, a kid with shaved legs, you know? It wasn’t a common sight. I had long hair and played basketball. It turns out I was better at it than Paco, he was just starting. He arrived with his Jordan shorts, his shaved legs, his sneakers, his faded, shaved hairstyle. I got there with my mane in a ponytail.

I’d listened to the Rage Against the Machine album, around ’93 or ’94, as I was saying. I’m not sure what year it was, but around that. And one day playing in the school… We jumped the fence to play in the neighborhood school. We jumped a fence, threw the ball over it and played basketball there. My friend Paco asked me to teach him to do a left-handed layup, because it was his weak hand. And I spent all afternoon teaching him how to do it. I played a little better by then. And in return he invited me to his house, as he wanted to show me his rap collection. So the first thing he played for me, and it blew my mind, was a demo tape very few people know. I don’t know if Baghira knows it. It’s from a Sevillan group called K.B. Posse. K.B. Posse was Sevillan old school by definition, along with Draches. Those groups existed before SFDK, for example. It blew my mind, because I got to his house and he had like a TDK tape collection, all recorded. And he had things like Das EFX, he had Public Enemy, EPMD. Every tape had its label, with lyrics. And I, with my long hair.

So, from that day on Paco and I started to share. I taught him rock and metal stuff, and he taught me rap stuff. And joking around one day he brought a radio with an auxiliary port, and he connected a tiny mic with a really short cable that he’d bought in the neighborhood store. And he connected it to the auxiliary port. He’d gotten a KRS-One tape, and he’d used the last free beat in the tape from the “MCs Act Like They Don’t Know” song. So he looped that ending by hand, from one tape to the other and he got a minute-worth of instrumental. There were times when it didn’t fall right and it didn’t keep time, because he hadn’t cut and pasted it right.

We started to fool around with the tiny mic. Without knowing what we were doing, we’d take the mic and see a Snoop Dogg video, or an MTV video, and then we’d try to rap, saying anything into the mic. A little of everything. Of course he was better at it than me, he got it better, I didn’t know what I was doing. Well, ’93 or ’94. By ’95 I’d cut my hair. By ’96 I’d bought rapper clothes and shaved my legs. Paco came to play for my team. He played for a local team and I took him to a more serious team, in which I played. From that day on we were inseparable. Now he lives in New York. I don’t see him anymore because he’s abroad, but we’re always in touch. He was the first person I rapped with or tried to rap with, at least.

Picture that, the first time I tried to write something with him, joking around, was perhaps in ’95 or ’94. In ’96 I think I met Juaninacka in college. And in ’96 or ’97 Juaninacka and his friends from Coria told me they had a group called La Alta Escuela, and that I should join. And I did, fooling around, it was all a joke, we didn’t really know what we were doing, you know? It was intuition. Juaninacka was the only one I remember as a person who knew how to rap well.

Serko Fu

Do you remember the first song, or the first verse you thought you knew what you were doing, and would say, “OK, this is it?”

Toteking

I marked those memories down. What pushed me… Because with Paco I knew the history, I started to get a little into rap. Fooling around, playing, right? But then I saw Juani rap a song, that one never came out, it’s all in our La Alta Escuela demo, that’s called “El Rey De La Línea” and talked about buses. Because our life back then was buses all day, because the people in La Alta Escuela lived in Coria. To go to Coria I had to take two buses, a city transit bus... Baghira knows what I’m talking about because he lives in Lora del Río. And I had to travel for... I lost about an hour going to rehearsals with them.

I remember Juani talking about that bus on that line in that rap he had, the “El Rey De La Línea” one. When I heard that rap, I said, “OK, now this is getting serious.” So, from then on, my whole life revolved around writing lyrics that came close to Juani’s worst. And so I learned to rap, because I was next to a guy who was, and is, a Spanish rap legend.

Serko Fu

You say you discovered Das EFX, KRS-One, etc. with your friend, right? I remember one of your first songs, well, one of the first I knew, at least, that got here, that referenced some characters like indie, indie rap from the West Coast, and things like that. And I sensed that some of the tracks you chose, I don’t know if you got involved in making them, kind of had that vibe, didn’t they? Was that music influential to you? What did you listen to back then? What references did you have? What kind of music were you more into?

Toteking

In the time of La Alta Escuela, besides learning to rap with them, the thing is, the three of them, Juanma, Juani and Randy, one of the amazing things I learned in Seville was that they had more music living in a small town, and knew more rap than the people I knew in Seville. And that got out when La Alta Escuela joined with SFDK, and we would hang in a park, rapping with Zatu and the people from La Gota Que Colma. Juani and Randy were more knowledgeable about music than anyone else.

So I remember that time when everything was in New York, everything was on the East Coast. And Juani brought an album he’d bought, a Southern Record, as we used to buy from a store called Southern Records. It’s in Madrid, and we had to buy the records through a catalog, that is, through the mail. And many times you didn’t know what you were buying. You know? Kind of randomly. To check out its sound, because you knew that this person had collaborated with that other person. So, you had Loud Records, because you knew that label worked with talented people, right?

Juani brought the first Xzibit album. And it was like, “Man, that’s not New York, that’s much fresher, more musical, but at the same time it’s so rapper!” So, as a result of that Xzibit album, I think it was called “Paparazzi,” or not, that was the song. I don’t remember what the album with the song “Paparazzi” was called. We started after that LP, I fell in love with that sound. I like New York, because nowadays I like everything, because everything is more open and there’s a thousand things. But at that time I discovered Lootpack, Wildchild, Madlib. I discovered people who did freestyle, who called themselves Freestyle Fellowship. Yes, Styles of Beyond, who were the kids from Reseda. El Ríu, right.

I loved those people because they gave me ideas and ways of rapping. I took many of those styles for myself. From those days, from those kids, because New York was very loud and I didn’t do well [with that]. Because my voice is sh-t. I yelled twice and my voice was gone. And I saw people modulating their voice, Evidence. I saw them more relaxed and thought, “That’s what I should do.” Because I feel more comfortable there. You can notice a change in my albums. Louder albums, and much more relaxed albums. I learned to use my voice closer to the mic. I sang better and it sounded prettier. Juani knew how to do that. Juani’s voice was loud in La Alta Escuela, but if you pay attention, later he relaxed and that was when his rapping was enjoyable. And yeah, the West Coast hip-hop scene blew everybody’s minds.

Serko Fu

Circling back to Seville. You mentioned some groups, SFDK, La Gota Que Colma, when you got together back then. Do you think that established a sound particular to Seville and eventually to Spanish rap? A sound you could identify today?

Toteking

Every chance I get and to the day I die, I will say that Seville’s sound was created by Juaninacka. I’m sorry if it’s hard to hear. All my respect for SFDK, they did the most important job in Seville, but the greatest talent was always Juaninacka. And that’s obvious, I think it’s like that. Juani could write at writer level. I think Juani is a person who wasn’t encouraged enough to write literature, because he should’ve been the one to write literature, not others.

For example, when Juani joined the scene the little kids who were beginning to come hang out with us had the chance to see the Pino Montano scene, which was super authentic. What Zatu set up on the street with his friends was unique. I hadn’t seen that in any other neighborhood. They got a radio with batteries, people would pool their cash to buy booze and batteries. And we spent the whole night rapping there. And that was something that no one could take away from the Pino Montano neighborhood that created that scene, because that was brutal, in fact we all went there. Anyone who rapped in Seville knew that if they wanted to know if they were good they had to go rap with the SFDK crowd in Pino Montano. It was a mandatory hang-out spot.

And I remember one night there when people started coming and they were really young kids. Jesuly hung out there, Buda, my 16-year-old brother. My brother would come to those cyphers with us and he’d join in, all stammering and young. I remember Límite, Límite’s people were kids, man. All those people had the chance to live a very authentic thing.

There was a very beautiful park in Pino Montano, and people didn’t go there, because the rap crowd had taken over it. It was so crowded that people would take a big detour to avoid it. And that was our park. We were always rapping. That’s where most of the Sevillan scene learned to rap.

Serko Fu

Interesting, interesting. So you did a sort of recounting of the La Alta Escuela days. You released your solo album, or your solo single, and you also had a project with your brother, right? So you can say you’ve been in a group, you’ve been in a duo and you’ve gone solo. Where do you feel more comfortable?

Toteking

Well, as you mentioned the project with my brother, I’ll tell you briefly what happened there. After the La Alta Escuela record, which I deeply regret, because basically everything I rapped on there sucks, and I didn’t know, I didn’t, I told you. I’d just started rapping with my buddy Paco. I had had long hair for three years. I was doing my thing back then.

After the La Alta Escuela record, the LP didn’t work out, there wasn’t a concert scene, either, and there were four groups. I remember at that time you saw Mucho Muchacho, you saw Violadores del Verso, SFDK, CPW and that was it. There wasn’t a scene, so we gave like... La Alta Escuela did like six concerts. The group broke up and I did a demo. I recorded that demo with Jefe De La M, whom I’d met, he was Zatu’s friend. And he proposed doing a demo to me and we did. I made like 15 copies of that CD, at my uncle’s place with his CD recorder, and I gave them out to my buddies. One of them gave it to Darío, who was Sergio Aguilar’s brother, a guy who had a record label in Seville…

Serko Fu

The guy from Superego, damn!

Toteking

Well, exactly, so this guy called me and offered a record deal for two or three albums. What was happening with my brother? I had a room at my parents’ house, I shared a room, we slept in twin beds with my brother, in a tiny room. I spent all day with my brother.

And like I told you, my brother came to the cyphers and rapped with us, so it caught me off guard. We did freestyle at home and we rapped, it was impossible to have privacy. My brother would get up and he was the first to claim the computer. Go on Napster, download music, write fast, then if one of us was writing the other one would hear him. Or leave the room.

So one day I was listening and I was like, “My brother’s a better rapper than me, man!” I swear I felt it, “This guy is at my level already. This son of a b-tch is great!” So I had the record deal, and I thought, “Why release a solo album, if I just started. I have my brother right here, who’s rapping with me every day.” And I say, “OK! Let’s record an album.” So I called the label and said, instead of ToteKing we’ll be ToteKing and Shotta. And we made Tu Madre Es Una Foca, just like that, an album.

The lyrics came super easily because we wrote them together in our room. And then, to answer your question, because I’m rambling, after that LP, as my brother is a mess and it’s very hard to work with him on tour, because little brothers are a hassle, and on the road, well, we got mad really quickly. He wouldn’t arrive in time to rehearsals, or he’d be stoned. One day he wouldn’t show up. He pulled three or four like that and I’m a strict guy, I like order. If I arrange a time I want it to be respected, I’m obsessive like that. So he screwed me over twice and I said, “OK, that’s it, I’m out.” I did Musica Para Enfermos and I started to do it alone. Afterwards we did the Héroe album. He comes with me on tour, we’re always together, we rap together all the time.

But I wouldn’t know which feels more comfortable. I can say that doing an album alone is a real pain. To make 15 songs by yourself, the choruses, decide the collabs, every damn lyric, first bit, second bit. It’s a hassle. People are smarter nowadays. They do a song here, a song there, and they have a good time.

Serko Fu

Exactly. And about that, you say it’s very hard. Not harder, but trickier, right? More work. Doing it alone, in general. But what’s up with the creative process? Somehow you have more control. You do whatever you want in your solo album, right? Could you share with us Tote’s creative process? How does he write a song?

Toteking

Well, I’d thought about doing something, showing you an interesting thing. As I always held rock in my heart and I never left metal, in the La Alta Escuela times... Well I’ll tell this story because it’s one of the things Juani did, and that we did together and it was really fun. At that time there weren’t beats like there are today. What was a beat? I get online or I can ask a producer. But nowadays if you don’t want to ask a producer you go online, look for this or that beat, and there are thousands. To have a beat back then on a CD, was a really unusual thing. So, for example, I remember many La Alta Escuela lyrics were written by rapping over rap songs. So we’d take a Smoothe Da Hustler song, as I loved that album of his, like “Murdafest.” And over that song… We knew our buddy Moro had done a beat for us that was around 90 BPM. Intuitively we looked for an American song that we’d love, and we’d rap over the guy. At home.

And it was a pain because you had to write trying to ignore the other dude rapping. Juani, me, and Juanma, wrote many of those lyrics over American rap songs with the guy singing. Afterwards the beat would come and you went again to the beat they’d given you. And sometimes it wasn’t so close and it was a pain. Sometimes it would fit and sometimes another thing happened that I love in music, and that is randomness. And I discovered that in those times, and to this day I still work like that. I love the first feeling a beat gives you. But a half hour later I hate it already. I need to hold onto the first two hours of being in contact with a beat. An instrumental I love arrives and I can’t be working on it for three months, because I start to hate it. Even if I wrote something good for it. So I always try to write with another beat, and then I go to the beat I’m actually using.

So, for example, I’d take, I’d grab from my record collection, the ones I had, rock albums mostly, that had leftover loops. And for example this group called Kyuss, that I’ve liked all my life, this record is from ’95, I wrote “Matemáticas” with this. And afterwards I went to the beat Hozone gave me. But I wrote it to that other beat. There were people who told me, “This is too heavy.” But it was a different style to what I’d find in the instrumental later. And it would open my mind. So many of the songs, when I thought, “Why would I rap with an American bothering me?” I would go and pick out Rage Against the Machine loops and ask some producer to duplicate them for me. I would take loops from Kyuss, I would take loops from other songs, written with different music, so I wouldn’t get tired of the instrumental I’d use later.

And I also like the feeling of writing with something else, and changing the rap later to a new beat. Many of my songs didn’t get written with those beats. “Bartleby & Co.” from my last album, Lebron, that I think is one of the best songs I’ve ever written, it’s written with an instrumental no one would imagine. I mean, it sucks, it’s lousy.

Serko Fu

Which is it?

Toteking

One Rune gave me, he didn’t even like it, he told me, “That one?” And I said, “It makes me feel like writing.” So the first thing that inspires me to write, I grab on it fast. Even if it’s a damn piano someone played. I grab onto that and then I record the acapella with another beat. And I like randomness, the feeling of putting the acapella over another beat. To see what happens, because randomness gives us great things in music.

Another thing I love. Another anecdote related to randomness, in another setting, with producers. For example, with a random guy like Hozone, we discovered a thing that I love, which I haven’t done again, because many people don’t want to. Hozone would program some drums, he had the drums already in place, and they would form a loop, and then he’d put the bass in, and we’d have drums and a bass. There are many people who don’t like to do that. I love it. He had a folder with many samples ready to use. People usually like to work by ear, with what goes together, and I said, “No, I’ll try something, leave the drums loop with the bass playing, we’ll drag random samples over it and see what happens.” A Camarón sample, three guitar players and a singer. “Let’s see what happens.” Sometimes it didn’t fit, it was out of tune. Out. You discard them, but sometimes something would happen. Sometimes some vocals would fit and you wouldn’t have put them there, producing. But randomly that works with people who have samples already chopped. And have a library, and have a sample folder at the ready. But I’m passionate about randomness, in music and in art in general. Sometimes things you didn’t look for happen and it’s even more interesting.

Serko Fu

When you record a song, are you one of those who records a demo and then works at it, thinks it through? Or do you prefer the first time to just leave it untouched?

Toteking

I go with the first thing, I leave my raps as they are even if they’re saturated, and so they remain.

Serko Fu

It’s too hard to go back...

Toteking

No, no, no. I never record a song twice. People say, “No, but you can record it better.” No, no, no. Once I recorded it, I won’t do it again. That’s my opinion. If it’s a dud, so be it. And if there’s a part where you were louder and the signal got saturated, it stays. Baghira hates me for it.

Serko Fu

Have you ever thought about forming a rock band, or rapping with a band? Like Rage, or something like that.

Toteking

Sure, we’ve done it.

Serko Fu

But enough so it can be its own project going forwards?

Toteking

I thought about that many times, but it’s complicated, because what you get out of working with a band is not as stimulating for writing.

Serko Fu

Why?

Toteking

Because the band, in my opinion, is great for direct sound. It gains value playing what it already has, live. I’ve done it this year. The festivals I have this year, in the summer, I’m doing like four of them with a band. And of course, the band does covers, and occasionally we also improvise some bits, but it has to be a limited thing. When the band is covering your song or better yet, when they fatten your beat, it rocks and the feeling of playing with a band is incredible. That’s incredible.

But when you lock yourself in the studio with a band, to create, it doesn’t rock. I don’t like it. I can’t write with a band, because everything is too raw. You lock yourself with some drums, a bass, a guitar, and they play like three tunes. Besides, the bands work with the concept of demos, of, “We’ll work this over later.” “OK, but I need something that gets me hard now, or I can’t write.” I can’t write with some guitar riff there. Then, it’s interesting because I latch onto a sample of some producer and I ask him, “Loop this for me,” and it’s an ugly, crude piano. But that does give me something to write on. Other times the band doesn’t have that. I couldn’t get that feeling with a band yet.

Serko Fu

And for example, now you’re telling me that you’ll be in festivals with a band, is it a band that’s covering your songs, in the same style as the instrumentals? Or could it have a more rock-like vibe?

Toteking

Sometimes they recreate songs that have that vibe already, like “Mentiras,” that’s perfect because it’s a rock sample. And other times they simply write arrangements over beats my DJ gives them. But sometimes what we do is take Jimi Hendrix classics, or good rock songs that we like and I adapt my raps over them, like I did with “Matemáticas” and the Kyuss song. And then it’s really cool. At the show it’s cool, and I think it’s a format in which a band works.

Serko Fu

And going back to the scene, I saw that you recently did a collab with these guys... Waor? Yeah, a duo. And I’ve seen that MC duos are a thing again. In some of your songs you say that Spanish rap is dead or that it’s dying, or you nod to that idea. Is that simply wordplay? Or do you really think that a time has come in which it’s stuck? And if so, why?

Toteking

Well, I don’t think it’s dead. I don’t remember, I was thinking where I could’ve said that, but yeah. I don’t think it’s dead, but I do think… And this is a reflection pertinent to the whole world, and it’s not only about rap but every genre that’s come out and everything they call urban music. What I do believe is that the scales were too uneven and that we live in a time that’s the opposite of before. We had a time in which, it’s true that it was a lot, rappers told tales, and talked about semi-intellectual concepts, rap songs that were about things, had a topic, and now we’ve gone over to the opposite side. You only hear stupid things at all times. And in every genre.

I’m interested in literature, I’m interested in art, I read. And when I see people using such poor language I get bored. But it’s not that I think it’s wrong, perhaps I’m the problem. I’m 40 years old, and I’m no longer in tune with the kids.

I want to say that before everything made you think, and now everything is for dancing and having sex. I think music is a huge spectrum, with thousands of things in the middle. They can’t be all lyrics for thinking and pondering life and reflecting, or all things for smoking and sniffing and having sex. I mean, between those two things there are a million others. And millions of people want to hear them.

I don’t know, it’s all stupid, everywhere. It’s all nonsense. And it’s a shame. But I don’t think that it’s just rap, it’s in general, every genre of music.

Serko Fu

For example you mentioned that you’re 40 now, right? And you say that perhaps it’s that, “I’m 40 years old.” You’re one of the few MCs that are still active or relevant. Do you think that has to do with it? That perhaps music is like that, because there aren’t any more people doing things like this?

Toteking

Doing things like mine?

Serko Fu

No, I mean, things in a broader spectrum of topics. Maybe I’m wrong, and there are more people your age or from your generation. But I don’t think many of them are creating things. Why?

Toteking

Man, it’s a fact of life, in music, in art in general, you have to die, and new people have to come in. And if you don’t accept that you have a problem. I tell you, I don’t think that it’s so much because there aren’t many people from my generation saying things, or because there are too many new people. I don’t think that it’s an “old people or young people” problem. I think it’s a problem regarding general poverty, all around the world, at such high levels, that the intellectual level is underground.

I mean, the songs, to give you an example, many hits that people all around the world listen to, are so poorly written and have grammatical errors, and they use only three words, man! I mean, a song that’s a bridge and a chorus, because they’re not songs, they repeat bridge and chorus, and then it’s over. In my time, at least, there were rappers, or people who threw text there. Nowadays the credit would have to go to the producer. Nowadays it shouldn’t be the singer’s song, it should be the producer’s song, because the ones doing things on top of that are speakers.

Today we live a generation of people who just speak. They shout a couple sentences over a beat, “Give credit to the producer!” “You’re a clown who just shouts some words.” Do you get where I’m going with this? In those couple sentences there are 20 grammatical errors! You’re using your damn language wrong! I don’t understand what you’re saying!

Of course, that’s my problem, I’m interested in other things. I come from listening to Juaninacka, that was like reading a poem. It was like looking at a painting. So, I don’t think it’s an age thing. I think everyone’s impoverished, worldwide, and that people sing about stupid bullsh-t.

Serko Fu

And what does ToteKing listen to nowadays? Let’s say, current music.

Toteking

I listen to the guy I think is the best writer in Spain right now, and he’s called Dheformer. He’s a kid from Cádiz, and he’s got talent. Pure talent. It’s amazing, I wish people could see him, but the guy is so authentic that he hides away. And he doesn’t show up, he just shows up when he feels like it. But I’d love for people to see him do freestyle. I mean, it’s a sight. Truly, there will come a day when someone sees that gaditano doing freestyle. I did a four-track EP with him. One of the best experiences I had with music. And it’s undoubtedly the best connection I felt with someone younger in my life. In which I felt younger, more like rapping, like 20 years ago. Dheformer was recording in my studio one of the verses, and I had recorded two verses and he had just one. And it was really cool! He improvised the whole second one. 16 bars in one go, ad-libbed. But recorded for work, not just to hang out. I’d never seen that before. Dheformer, in my opinion is the guy who writes best, unfortunately the music he makes is in a context that doesn’t fit with what’s popular now, and obviously he isn’t so well known. I don’t have doubts, in fact I’d say that I don’t want to listen to anyone else but him.

Serko Fu

And outside of Spain?

Toteking

I have a problem with the outside. The American school, which is the one I like the most, because I can listen to people from London, I can like Skepta songs, or the Foreign Beggars, I can like Sofiane songs, from France, or any other rapper from there, but I grew up with the American scene and I still listen to it. And there’s one weird thing, the rappers that I like the most who say the smartest things and whose songs are more my speed are really violent. But I tolerate them because it’s more like what I’m into. I like Roc Marciano, Westside Gunn, Conway…

Serko Fu

Gun talk.

Toteking

Right. So, gun talk all the time. They’re talking about guns and violence, and I don’t like that, but I do like them in a musical sense and the bars they have. They’re lyrically intelligent and they move the thing forward. I don’t know, that’s what I feel. I come from a time in which you sat next to a guy like Juani and I always bring him up, but it’s true, and Juani would rap and you’d get up from the couch, man. You’d stand up, man, you’d hold your head in your hands. And you wanted to lock yourself in your room and write something like it. And now it doesn’t matter what you write.

The general feeling, what is there, there are many things, but what I’m saying is, it’s all the same in the end. I mean, the importance of the bars is dead. It’s completely meaningless, it’s like, you can say anything and they’ll look at the video. They’ll pay attention to something else. You know?

Serko Fu

And outside of rap, what do you listen to?

Toteking

Ah, outside of rap, I’m still listening to rock.

Serko Fu

Like what?

Toteking

Stoner. In my metal days I listened to several branches. I listened to death metal, to Norwegian black metal, they’re crazy, and classic rock, because that’s what I was born with, you know? But talking about metal rock, what’s been blowing my mind the last ten years is stoner and doom. Dense stuff, slow, and it has many loops to write with.

In fact, for many of the things I write stoner is great background, because it’s 80 BPM. Dense, and the singer waits a whole minute before coming in, and that leaves a minute for you to write in. That’s what I listen to most.

Serko Fu

And on the production side? You worked with many producers in your country and from other countries, who would you like to work with next? What would you like to try out?

Toteking

That’s a subject that worries me less and less. Because there’s a feeling that you have to rap with successful people to feel successful. And for the last few years that hasn’t worried me at all. For instance, the most recent song I made with someone, I did it with Waor, and that’s because he’s a kid with whom I have improvised, in fact I think that’s how many of us have met. We met at a concert. I finish a concert, I like to get drunk and improvise. And being with the people there, I’ve done it with Natos, with Waor, with people I get along with, people I have good chemistry with. We’d see each other in the dressing rooms, we have a very similar way of thinking.

But talking about Waor, or Dollar, I’m not interested in the part of a person that can give you... I need to rap with people I feel like rapping with. Even if I’m bringing him up a lot, the person that makes me write better and motivates me is Dheformer. Afterwards you do other collabs, or I may feel like doing them. I have another side, a more musical side. To get a guy to sing a reggae chorus or to sing R&B or something for you, but because you’re not looking to complement your poetry, but to embellish the song. And in that sense I don’t turn anyone away. I’m a guy who tries everything, I like to rap with everyone. I don’t go looking for someone in particular either, you know?

Serko Fu

And in beat making? Is there any beat maker you’d like to work with or any other thing you’d like to try?

Toteking

In truth, I don’t have any, I haven’t been looking online for producers for years, I’ve worked with M-Phazes from Australia. I worked with Oh No, and that was an achievement. With how much I like people from the West Coast, working with Oh No was amazing. I’ve always looked for people abroad to give the music some fresh air. To not work always with the same producers, but in truth, after 23 years doing this, I don’t need to go looking for anybody.

I have four buddies who send me stuff, and whoever sends me something cool that inspires me I take it, but I don’t have the fantasy of looking for someone anymore. What I do notice is that a producer’s general catalog nowadays is not in harmony with what I’m looking for. It’s very complicated, and if I’m looking for a sample, without drums, or a thing almost without drums, to rap, a style very like what Roc Marciano does, you find like 3% of the producers doing that. And you find 98% of people who are sending me urban music that doesn’t inspire me to write at all.

Serko Fu

Just 808.

Toteking

That’s right! But I don’t hate 808s at all. I love its sound, but it has to be in a certain tone. In fact I look for beats that are like, for example, what Pusha T is doing now. He raps, you know. The album he made with Kanye is great. Daytona is a damn jewel. That is, for example, what I’d look for. That would inspire me to write. I can’t fool my own head anymore.

Another thing I learned is that I can rap to any BPM. That was one of my challenges when I was 25. I wanted to have a lyric for every damn BPM. Because I had a fantasy, and it’s stupid, but I have many weird obsessions. I didn’t want to be caught with my pants down when they gave me an open mic. I guess that happens to many people who perform freestyle. I’d say, “Sh-t, I need a lyric because if one day a guy asks me to do a collab and the DJ plays any beat, I want to have something for that beat.” Because you can always improvise. But I wanted to have, my goal was to have a lyric for 60 BPM, and another for 112. I wanted to have every BPM under my control. And that’s something that doesn’t worry me as much, I’ve done it, it’s a past challenge.

Serko Fu

In one song, I remember you once said, and it’s not going to be literal, you can’t do anything without a manager, and La Mala gave you a number, or something like that? What would the manager’s role be, what would you look for in them? We were just talking about it, that you just changed your manager. I’d like you to share something with these guys. What is their role, what should they look for? In your case you had experience with different managers.

Toteking

In truth, I don’t have that much experience, I’ve only had three.

Serko Fu

You don’t want to tell the secrets.

Toteking

No, no, really there aren’t many secrets because no one can do magic, and I guess that’s obvious, right? People don’t do magic and they won’t sell anything you don’t have. I don’t know, maybe someone who besides looking for shows for you and getting you money, is able to understand your song, your music, because it’s true that if besides being your manager he knows what you want to say when you write, knows where you’re going, then he knows where to put you. Or where to sell you. Or where not to sell you, of course. Perhaps that’s important. And also if a manager is able to get into the artistic part, not to the point of telling you, “Don’t write this,” but that he can be honest, like with me, I’m a savage, if it were up to me I’d only release what I’ve recorded. I have four or five new songs usually already recorded. I have the studio at home and that’s what I like most about it. More than playing live, I like to record in my studio.

If I didn’t have a guy stopping me I’d be releasing songs willy-nilly, without measuring times, without making it match anything, because I wasn’t born with that... That head for marketing that these guys have. I don’t know how to say, “Damn, I’ll make a song about this and release it that day.” I don’t know how to do that, but there are people who do. So I think it’s good to have a manager for that.

Serko Fu

You were telling us that you started recording over that KRS track, you made a demo, La Alta Escuela, you had your solo stage, you invited your brother. You’ve been working in different ways. Now you’re with Sony? No longer, right?

Toteking

I left.

Serko Fu

OK. What could you share about the differences, pros and cons, between being independent and working with a corporation?

Toteking

Well, the only memory of Sony is that they paid for my damn house. I mean, Sony’s only good for that. A corporation is only good for taking their money. And people know that. A corporation doesn’t know about your music, doesn’t care about your music, doesn’t empathize, they’re geniuses of protocol. They’ll give you a good hug, they’ll take you out to eat fancy, they’ll put you in one hell of a recording studio. They’ll say, “Why don’t you collaborate with this person, it could turn out great.” And they’ll move you around. But afterwards, in the end, everything that results from that, or nearly everything, is laminated.

My worse records resulted from being with Sony. My worse records, but the ones that gave me the most money. I bought a house cash with that money. But my music started to die when I started to work with them. Because it’s all bureaucracy. If you want to buy a beat you have to go through a hundred departments. If you have to collaborate with others you have to sign a copyright waiver form. Everything is a hassle. Everything is sh-t.

The best is working with less resources but less problems. I was recording my first music video with Sony, and they made you change the shot because your sneakers were in the frame! A label on sneakers. “No, they aren’t paying for it.” And what do I care if they’re paying, damn, I want the sneakers in. Anyways, the shot is great, I don’t want to change it. Or they’d shoot a take on the street, and you’d have to ask for permission to every person in the frame, or take them out of focus, because they could sue. I mean, it’s a huge hassle.

Sony screwed my creativity. I think my worst album is El Lado Oscuro De Gandhi. It was the first one I did with Sony. Afterwards, with time I can see that 78 is also a weak record. And Lebron turned out cool, I’d put that in my top three, but because I already knew how it worked by then. I’d put up with so much bullsh-t since I started there. Everything’s so slow, it’s exhausting. You don’t feel like writing anymore because it’s a bureaucratic mess. They do give out forward payments... That was the only good thing.

Serko Fu

Hey, if you say those albums you released with Sony were your least favorite ones, what would be Tote’s favorite album? What’s the album you’d say, “This one represents me?” I could delete my entire discography and this would be the one with which I feel more comfortable.

Toteking

Well, I wouldn’t erase it, I would keep three albums, Un Tipo Cualquiera, T.O.T.E. and Lebron. But if I had to keep just one, even if it’s not the sound that I like most, today the sound I identify with most is the one in Lebron. The newest one. I wrote it recently, too, and the productions are current, I like them better.

But being honest with the feeling, Un Tipo Cualquiera is my best album. And that’s basically because I’d left my parents’ house, I’d started earning a little money with Musica Para Enfermos and Tu Madre Es Una Foca. I had some money, enough to pay rent at a friend’s house. So I left to live in Granada with him for a year. It’s my friend Paco. Precisely the one who got me into rap. He studied in Granada and I went with him. And alongside Paco, who was my buddy with whom I started out, I made the record I’m most fond of today. I lived in a tiny rented room, in a run-down house in Granada, an old building for rent, and I ate rice with tomatoes all day long, and everything was writing. And it was the first time I was out of my parents’ house. I could play really loud music, write with the beats at maximum volume, feel free. And that record, I remember it from that year in Granada, when that was all I did. I’d get up, write, leave some bars there go out to the street with my buddy, eat a shawarma, turn back, go for a walk. I was truly free, and that record is special to me. The truth is, time passes, and there are things I don’t like so much about it anymore, but it is the most special one.

Serko Fu

And if you had to pick a song? Which song would represent you?

Toteking

“Bartleby,” I guess. “Bartleby & Co.” yeah. It’s the one that better represents what’s inside me. In which I was better able to express things. Perhaps there are smarter bars and funnier ones, or more original ones in other songs. But this one has something special, I don’t know, it could be the best. The structure reminds me most of how it would be to write an article or an opinion piece for a paper. Hell, look, it’s a small bit and a pretty text that reads great. If you’d take out the music and read it, you’d go, “OK, this text is cool.” On its own, without the beat.

Serko Fu

Lastly, something you’d like to share with these guys?

Toteking

Well, I won’t teach you anything. On the contrary, I’d have to learn, and it’s what I do. I’m still in the music scene to spy on what they do. And besides if we’re in this context in which they do freestyle, OK then, I’ll shut up, these people rock, because they work with something that’s very attuned to what I like and that’s intelligence in music. And to have those bars you have to be smart. They’re much more in tune with what I hear, with what I like than the stupid music I was talking about before, that I personally find boring. So I can’t tell you much, but I could say that, to give an example that trick I have of writing with other kinds of loops, it works for me personally, I think it’s cool, if someone wants to try it out they’ll see, writing with other stuff, getting out of the genre, breaking down the genre is cool, to come back to it later on. Writing with completely different things and coming back to see what happens when you use a rap beat.

Or, also, I don’t know... I won’t say to anyone don’t get into this or that, because if you’re 20 it’d be normal to want it. But it is true that time will pass. And you have to be careful about the things you record, because 20 years go by and you think, “Sh-t, what did I say here.” I regret some sexist things I said, they’re embarrassing. Or I regret some cheeky lyrics, almost capitalist lyrics, and very ugly, you know? And that gets recorded. I’d think twice about it. Besides that, I can’t think of anything else.

Serko Fu

Let’s give it up for my brother, ToteKing, I think it was a really good talk. [applause] Let’s move on to a Q&A. So, ready, point, shoot. Do we have someone over there?

audience member

From the standpoint of commitment with art, in your case, with writing, like a painter with their painting, I’ve always had mixed feelings between a commitment with your art that you so love and not wanting to give out certain information, a certain inner shadow that you perhaps have, because it isn’t necessary or because you don’t dare to face it. I don’t know, some do it and some don’t. I guess there’s stuff that even if it could inspire you for a good song, because it’s something really moving that you carry inside, I guess you won’t do it? Or you will, you spit everything out and that’s it, it’s done?

Toteking

That’s a good question, because there are feelings that hurt me every day. For instance, I wrote “Bartleby” with a pain and a feeling I had, it’s not a pose. This has been happening to me since the time... I’m talking a lot about him, but it’s true. From Juani’s time, because I never saw myself at his level. In fact I live thinking that I made it this far, maybe if we could talk about getting a little further, than the person who should have done it. I always think about that.

When you express things that hurt afterwards it’s recorded and it comes back, it brings it back to mind. So I express it, but then I’m reminded of it. And many times I’ve had to use that. There are people who never use that. They don’t show it. It’s pretty, it’s cool, or you’re using it to monetize it, that could also be the case. These are questions I pose myself, they come back after you recorded it. In the moment I knew I was writing out of a real feeling, but I’m exposing myself.

I always have this feeling, I think about quitting. Because of many problems I’ve had when my voice didn’t last when performing live, until I learned to tame it. Or when I saw I was getting further than other people that I considered better than me. So, the idea of quitting isn’t a pose. It’s always been with me, and those who know me, my partner, my close friends, they know, I’ve told them many times, “Man, I think I should quit, I’m not a good enough rapper.” Which means I’ve put myself out in that song. And I don’t regret releasing it, it’s cool, because it’s true that you never forget that. There are days when I get up, I’m washing my hands and I think, “I’m so embarrassed, I went all in in this song, I said everything.” And of course, many people don’t know you, and there are people who’ll say, “What a douche, look what he’s talking about just to sell or to make some noise.” I can rest easy in that sense, I know I didn’t do it for that.

But it is true that those inner shadows, when you express them, it depends on how you do it. Some people don’t do it right. It’s hard, I don’t like that stuff at all. I mean, I can’t stand cheap triteness. If you’re pulling that, do it in style. But it’s a good question, I don’t know if it makes up for it. If you have something inside and you express it, man! You should first do it in a cool style, rapping, and then, it’ll come back. It’ll come back to your mind once and again. You’re giving away super personal information. And if you go out and someone recognizes you, you’re thinking, “Damn, they heard what I said in the song.” In this case, it’s not so intimate. Some people put themselves much more out there. And, damn, it’s a serious debate.

Serko Fu

Another question over there? No?

Audience member

You were talking about feelings, that’s where it all comes from, where inspiration is born. But after all these years, I’ve listened to you for 15 years now, and there is some more time before that, at least ten years, I remember that in Un Tipo Cualquiera you talked about having rapped for around ten years. How do you find the motivation to say, “I’ll do another album, I’ll lock myself in and work.” Or perhaps it’s that, does the whole process of making the album fulfill you more than the final product?

Toteking

I found a balance, and I said, “OK, when I have something real to tell, I’ll have it, and I’ll hold onto it.” When I didn’t, I showed off with style, very much like a person doing freestyle. Besides, I’ve always been on that vibe, I like to do freestyle, as an amateur, but I’ve always done it. And what’s cool about rap is that it gives space for that. For example, one of my last singles, “Mira Cómo Tiemblan.” It’s absolutely worthless. It’s connected phrases, which I had a hell of a time recording. Relaxed, it’s simply going at it, writing smart bars, put them here and there, it’s just fun work, sport, like when you go to the gym. Right, so it’s cool that rap music allows that. Because some other genres are always about feelings. “That woman hurt me, this or that...” Rap allows for imagination. So I grab on to that, and I hope for something serious to come along.

Why do I like this Lebron album? Unfortunately I lost my father two or three years ago, and I put that feeling in a song. And I feel very proud of the way I was able to face that in a song, because it was very hard. Going back to your question, I’ll talk about how I lost my buddy, who was my best friend and guide. Putting that in a song, it gives you a serious feeling, but it’s a cool feeling, too. That’s why I can keep recording albums, because in the Lebron album, for example, it’s 50-50 songs that have meaning and are made of feelings, and songs that are just fun and bars.

I guess the day there’s nothing left to tell inside and everything is dumb, I’ll think about it. Also the good thing is that what motivates me to keep working in music is the fact that I don’t have to do albums any more. The truth is, I’m learning about that from you, about how music works now because it makes it easy. Because I have to do 15 songs now, what do I talk about now, man? I’ve talked about everything. I don’t know how many records I did, I don’t even remember. So, that’s the good thing about doing a song here and there. I’m not burdened by having to do so much.

Audience member

Well, thank you.

Audience member

What I wanted to say was, don’t you see, in that creativity, the pressure to say, “No, I won’t do this because it’s mainstream or whatever”? What you said about Dheformer, that he gets on the internet and doesn’t leave home. “I wish he was more mainstream!” Maybe it wouldn’t be Dheformer anymore, he wouldn’t do drum-less songs. And that’s cool too.

What we look for is to keep doing what we want at every turn, because afterwards it’ll be cool to watch that past evolution. So, it’s good not to give into the pressure.

Toteking

Of course, but your profile is different. Because I was talking about lyrical idiocy... Of course, you’re in a perfect point, you make music.

audience member

Yeah, but we respect the format, anyway.

Toteking

No, but in that format we can talk about the issue too, because in the urban music format, well, “urban music,” yeah let’s call it whatever, there are many smart people. Many. Big Sean does some raps that blow your mind! I don’t know, Eminem... The song “No Favors” comes to mind, by Eminem with Big Sean. That’s current and it rocks, four minutes of rapping each! And it’s on the damn radio.

My question is, why adapt to the damn radio, to the format, if we can do more modern music? The trendiest, newest things, but with something surprising. Why do we always have to sing about the same thing, man? There are more things to talk about, and people doing it. The last LP by Royce da 5’9” was awesome. In that LP he sings, raps, and it has feeling, it has meaning, and it’s smarter. I was talking about that, but it’s true that I don’t agree with saying, “No, no, I’m underground, I won’t do that,” because it’s true that you don’t know what could happen, for example, if Dheformer got put into a modern beat. And I know that he would crush it.

But Kendrick is an example, Kendrick is giving an example worldwide. Kendrick, hot damn! We have much to talk about. I don’t know. Besides, as an artist, that thing I told you I had, I wanted to have a rap for every BPM, to defend myself from anything. Later on I knew I couldn’t do everything perfectly, but at least I tried. I could have a song that talked about a relationship failing, another that was only bars, another about hate, another about money. A spectrum.

Because today many artists don’t have a spectrum. Their albums are about one subject, once and again, and it’s the same, and the next person does the same, in exactly the same way. So, my idea is to go that way. Not with the sound. In fact, I’m a consumer of music, I tell you. My advantage is that I come from metal, from jazz, from all kinds of music in my family, and today I consume anything that’s well made, anything I like, in any format.

audience member

How do you think trap and rap can coexist and find middle ground? What I mean is, it’s like taking a trap track, a violent one, with 808s, but that says something insightful. Do you think there could be such a perfect connection? Because I loved that in Spain, brother! It blew my mind! It’s not that I love rap or anything, but, hell! They are not musically different. Not putting limits on oneself. What do you think?

Toteking

I’m with you, with your speech. I’m a hundred percent with you. I’ll give you an example of that. A violent track, a lyrical track. Look, Neutro Shorty, the freestyle he did with TCM. It’s the best I’ve heard in Spanish, doing what you say, trap. I don’t really know what is trap and what isn’t anymore. It gives it a modern rap sound. That’s what Neutro Shorty does there. It’s spectacular. I think I’ve never heard a rap that good on a beat like that. And what you say, that’s what I’d love. For there to be options. I want there to be options. What you said, that’s truly having options, options for people who are singing pop, that’s music to be ignored, to do the dishes with, or to dance to, or have it playing in the background. Something for a little company, to go to the gym and have it there. And for there to be space for people who want to make lyrical stuff. It’s true, as well, I said it before, that we already have 20 years of lyrical stuff. It was time already for dancing and fooling around. Because Spanish rap around me was all “boom!” You know, there was no music, no fooling around. It was time already. But now we’ve made a complete turn, we’re on the opposite pole. So it’s cool that there are people like that.

And man, I experienced what you tell me about Chile. I went to Caupolicán to sing, and when I rapped something a little more modern, songs from T.O.T.E., “Ahora Vivo De Esto” and so on, people turned their backs on me. There were people in Caupolicán, I’ll never forget. I’d never been scorned like that. I was rapping and there were people talking in groups, rapping among themselves, with their backs to me. Sure, and because it was “Ahora Vivo De Esto,” the beat was a bit modern for 2008. Of course, it’s like you say, and I agree, it should be that way.

Audience member

The same thing happens in Chile, if I put on, for example, an ad on YouTube, or I started to work with Vevo, they would tell me, “You’re a phony.” You know? But for example in Spain I was on YouTube and suddenly there was an ad of some rap, Natos Y Waor, and I’d go, “Yeah!” It’s so good that anyone who puts on YouTube, instead of any ad they could get rap and maybe they’ll like it. Maybe they’re not rappers. I think it’s the next step so that rap can keep growing. Because the same rappers make it stagnant and don’t let it grow, don’t let it become big.

Toteking

And rap is going to get better when you get it into other contexts. Just like if I try something with a rock band or if a guy gets a rap into another kind of music. It makes you rap differently. It’s not the same to rap 90 BPM boom bap, then rapping 90 BPM on a song that bounces and plays at half-time. They’re nothing alike, you have to take it differently. Not even the lyrics fit. Those kinds of beats force you to get in differently. That’s good for rap.

audience member

Can you still be hungry if your belly is full? You know? I mean, you’ve accomplished so much, is it just inertia? Because, personally, I sometimes go to places excited, but I have to say there’s a high percentage that’s just inertia, you know? And I know that a year ago I would’ve been really excited.

Toteking

If I tell you “Bartleby” is true, it’s because it’s really true. That’s another reason I’ve thought about quitting many times, because I think, “Why, dude?” I have my life sorted out. I don’t live like Gianluca Vacchi, but I live well. Then you say, “What for, I have a bunch of albums, I’ve collaborated with everyone, I’ve played on every damn festival multiple times.” I’ve felt this a thousand times.

In fact, being from the generation I am, I’ve thought many times, “It’s time, dude.” I want to leave, and for it to be other people’s turn. Not having to go again to Viña, or that other festival. What I personally find motivating, and you said it in the coolest way, “with the belly full,” what I find motivating is exactly the same as what makes me continue going to the gym. I’m 40 years old, but I like looking at myself in the mirror, seeing myself fit, training, saying, “I’m cool.” It’s the same, I see rap just like that. I like to say, “I’m not going to be able to write better than that.” But a day comes, and you get up in the morning, “I feel like writing, I don’t know if I’ve eaten well, or gotten a good night’s sleep, today I want to get into the studio.” You do it, and it was three months since you last did. That day you create something. But it’s not ambition anymore. Not at all, it’s just inertia. Inertia, the same thing that gets me to train. Another thing. People are cowards. People don’t create to make music. They create because, “I’m going to make a song with you, you have 500,000 followers.” “I’m doing a song with you, because both our hypes combined make this much.” And people say, “Hey, I released a song.” For example, in my case, “Mira Cómo Tiemblan,” is close to a million now. Waor and Dollar’s, more modern, doesn’t have even half that. What would many people I know do? “Do that, that works for him.” Music dies. Bravery dies. If everything was like that, nothing would be new.

The guy who spoke before, from Chile. In Chile I listened to Ceaese. I liked it a lot, man. He’s brave for Chile’s scene. Ceaese is one of the few rappers... Who raps and takes you to another place. Utopic, for example. If you’re always afraid and pleasing whoever follows you, which in the end is money, because everything’s money, fame and so on. Then music would never do anything. But afterwards, for example, I think, my favorite Spanish rap album, the album that marked me the most, the one I learned the most from, and will learn the most from, after Juaninacka, for example, right? Another icon of mine, Sólo Los Solo, Todo El Mundo Lo Sabe. An album you can put on today and it’s marvelous. It’s perfect, beautiful. And it was made in a time every rapper talked, no one danced, everything was boombox, moving your head. It was Sólo Los Solo dancing, putting amazing stuff out there. It was lyrically rich, musically great. If they hadn’t opened that door, what would’ve happened? Where would we be? You have to be brave, and right now I understand that digital platforms give a lot of money, and doing collaborations with people lifts you up. But, dude, where is the desire to do music with others? And what you said before, too, I know that, for example, if after T.O.T.E. I had gone back to the format from Un Tipo Cualquiera, what’s more if I’d repeated Un Tipo Cualquiera, like many artists we know, and we all know who they are, they know they have a hit and repeat that style, five or six albums of the same stuff. We all know who we’re talking about, and it’s shameful. It’s all the same. I won’t, dude, I prefer to eat less. I prefer to play less, and for my cachet to be smaller. T.O.T.E. is a great album, and Un Tipo Cualquiera too. But I’m not going back. One shouldn’t go back. Sólo Los Solo didn’t, and if they didn’t, I won’t either.

audience member

Why do you think the song with Orozco was a front?

Toteking

Because I convinced him of that song in particular because I told him, “If we make a song, dude, I come from rock, let’s do rock, not pop.” And he agreed. We met up, and he’s a beautiful person. I had a great time with him and his people. And damn, I saw him playing guitar, I saw him singing, I went to one of his gigs. He gave a really amazing concert, I’d love to have lungs like his. We made the song using a rock format. He listened to rock, but it wasn’t really his speed. That is, it was an oasis in his music. His music is really identifiable with pop. A pop I hated.

Audience member

It’s like you took responsibility for his career even though what you made together was completely different.

Toteking

Right, and I specially had to take responsibility for what I’d said. Because I’m a guy who speaks without thinking. And I’d shot pop down since Tu Madre Es Una Foca. My brother and I hadn’t stopped. Now we’ve grown up and we’ve finally stopped. Afterwards, with age, you learn to tolerate everything, R&B, reggae, any music. But at first we were rappers, we were young, and we were all about rap, only rap, rap, rap. Of course, we hated everything else. Of course.

At that time, after we made T.O.T.E., Orozco’s was around that time, when I’d already taken the leap with “Ahora Vivo De Esto” and I was emboldened. But right, afterwards, if people said, “Eh, what’s up,” yes I wanted to disguise it, but now I’ve the perspective of age, it’s a pain, and now you pay for it. You have to take it.

Serko Fu

We have one over there.

Audience member

In my case, I come from Panama, and there’s too much dance music over there, way too much, but there’s also rap. I read, I try to be informed and to be a smart person, to be knowledgeable and all that. But now I have a band, and I do rap, but I also make dance music. More than a question I want your opinion. Because I make dance music, but maybe many rap people don’t like that, either. And people who like dance music don’t like that it’s a band very much.

Sometimes I make a chorus, very silly, a very silly chorus, that doesn’t have a lot to say, but it’s fulfilling. And at the same time I feel I’m not doing this nor that, I’m not doing anything at all, but it’s fulfilling, so I don’t know. I wanted an opinion about that.

Toteking

I don’t think, like I said before, I think it’s clear, I’m not an authority on the subject, really, I don’t have a clue. I used to be a long-haired dude doing heavy, listening to Metallica, and two years later I was rapping with a friend. I’m a guy who followed his gut and just kept moving forwards. But my gut tells me that right now the trend has reversed.

Sometimes it’s cool if something has content that is funny rather than intellectual. For example, there are people in my country like Kinder Malo and Pimp Flaco, who do modern music, but they’re creative, and they have cool bars. But they have stuff that makes you think or at least smile. Let’s leave it at smile. Because I don’t want to seem like the typical serious guy. “Everything has to be smart or I can’t listen to it.” If I could dance I’d love to dance. I think there’s a place for everyone, but what’s happening now is that everything is very idiotic. Just my opinion, OK? I don’t think I’m an authority on the subject either, nor that anyone should listen to what I think.

It’s true what you say about the silly chorus, but it works and it tells you something, I agree, because that’s the essence... Many people want to disparage reggaeton. For example, to knock on that music they choose the Beatles, to appear snobbish. And the Beatles are the same thing! The Beatles’ songs are the same as reggaeton songs. They’re dumb pop songs saying, “Let me love you, let me love you,” and that’s it. Period. “Love me do. Love me do.” That’s it. I get it’s a silly chorus, but well sung. And a different thing is the harmony, the melody, the guy’s voice, pretty, sometimes the chorus is silly but the music is amazing. That counts. You say, “Hey, this is it, this sounds beautiful, I don’t need it to tell me a story.” I’m with all genres and I understand it all. What I don’t like are the extremes, you know? It bothered me in 1995, when it was all boom bap. I saw it coming too, in fact I used to tell my colleagues, and my brother can confirm this. I used to tell my colleagues in 2008 or 2009, around that time, “Guys, this has to change now, the scene needs freshening, because this is just boom bap and people ranting. Drilling into your head with a 24-line verse. We need someone to come, and say three silly things.” But now it’s the other extreme.

audience member

How do you think that affects the artist and art in general, and you specifically, as ToteKing? Or does it help? Because you always say, “Sh-t! All the time, say it, say it, say it, no filter.” You know?

Toteking

This is a segue from what we were talking about, cowardice, about people who walk back on their albums, because something has worked before and they want to keep repeating what has worked. People know, many artists know, we can bring to mind, anyone can bring to mind three or four from the top of the scene, who will never get involved in politics. They will always be politically correct. Because they know they could go through what I went through.

For example, with Podemos after 15-M, and Podemos started rising, I had hopes, and like you said, I have no filter, I talked about it in every damn interview, I went to the Vistalegre event, I went to that park in Madrid where we sang, I said I would vote for them. I was with them. I wasn’t expecting it, but Nexa, who takes care of my social media accounts, he told me that three or four days later my numbers were drastically down. And people were leaving me private comments saying, “What a disappointment, what a shame, I’m right-wing and I listen to you since I was a kid, I’m burning your CDs.” “What’s up, you only rap for liberals, and not for conservative people?” I didn’t say that, I just said that I’m with them! I was brave, and that got my numbers down. And I don’t care about social media and those numbers. Those numbers are just numbers. And they’re down. It was funny, though, because, right, there’s a lot of people for whom everything is aseptic. They never get involved, they never say anything. Your country can be putting a rapper in jail for giving his opinion, or because an artist on Twitter takes a dump on God, they want to take him to court, like Willy. And people shut up. Because, “Oh, I’m afraid to lose numbers.” “Oh, it will get my numbers down.” Go to hell! The numbers. We’re going to die tomorrow, dickhead. People don’t get that.

Serko Fu

Let’s hear it for Tote. [applause]